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(BusinessWeek)   Harvard admits just 5.9% of its freshman class applicants. Which is exactly the same percentage of students who can pay their entire tuition with cash   (businessweek.com) divider line 39
    More: Interesting, Harvard, Harvard College  
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912 clicks; posted to Business » on 29 Mar 2014 at 11:01 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-03-29 08:45:56 AM  
I though Harvard was well known for giving top performers with financial need full ride scholarships? Am I wrong?
 
2014-03-29 08:51:33 AM  

SecretAgentWoman: I though Harvard was well known for giving top performers with financial need full ride scholarships? Am I wrong?


No. IIRC, if your family makes under $100k and you get accepted you pay almost nothing.
 
2014-03-29 09:31:58 AM  
We must've read different articles, because that one said something like 60% receive aid in some way
 
2014-03-29 11:05:35 AM  
Yeah, Harvard is pretty friggen generous with scholarships and accepting local low income high achievers.  Not to mention their extension school where you can eventually get a Harvard degree for about the cost (for locals) of a community college.
 
2014-03-29 11:09:07 AM  
It is possible that both 5.9% of incoming freshman can afford to pay their tuition in cash and that the school is very generous with financial aid and scholarships.
 
2014-03-29 11:23:06 AM  
You don't need money to go to Harvard.
You don't need money to go to any school in the United States.

The US government will sign (essentially) blank checks to anyone who wants to go.  You don't need to be smart, or qualified, you just need to find a school that meets some VERY minimal requirements to accept you.  Then fill out a FAFSA.

If you can't get money, it's only because your parents have a relatively high income, but can't (for whatever reason) provide support that the government expects.  And even in those cases are there still options you can explore.

I'm surrounded by US college kids who are studying abroad.  Yes - you can even use US student loans to pay for international schools.  They are able to borrow 70-80k USD per year.  And that money doesn't just cover tuition, it also covers cost of living.  And it's very generous.  These kids can afford week long trips all over Europe, all at the taxpayers dime.

When they graduate, they'll have a mountain of student loan debt.  Then, they fill out the appropriate paperwork and switch to an 'Income Based Repayment Plan' where, despite owing hundreds of thousands of dollars, they pay based on their income.

Prestigious schools like Harvard are rich for other reasons.  They don't really care about tuition.  If your parents aren't pretty loaded, you basically attend for free - without student loans.  But even if you need student loans, you can get them.  Nobody is too poor to go to college in the United States.  Sometimes, rarely, someone is not poor enough - where the FAFSA calculation comes up with an EFC (expected family contribution) and limits the amount you can borrow because they expect your parents who earn 80k per year to be supporting you (because they are claiming you as a dependent - so they are supposed to be supporting you).  Sure, if you don't speak to your parents and they are illegally and incorrectly claiming you, it will screw up your loans and you'll have a heck of a time getting it sorted out.  But those are extreme cases.

If you are poor you can go to college.
 
2014-03-29 11:33:13 AM  
Harvard at this point has a problem finding investments for its endowment with a good return. Using it to select the best achieving students from around the world and then give them a lifelong connection to the university is a great investment since it is likely to have a nice return in the form of donations, especially when the student kicks the bucket after a fifty years of C level jobs, high political offices, and various golden parachutes. Might as well have a printing press pumping out money in the basement.
 
2014-03-29 11:49:29 AM  
 
2014-03-29 12:28:54 PM  
The best and the brightest are needed to keep farking the United States economy until it dies completely!
Go, Ivy Leaguers, GO!
 
2014-03-29 12:30:04 PM  

enry: SecretAgentWoman: I though Harvard was well known for giving top performers with financial need full ride scholarships? Am I wrong?

No. IIRC, if your family makes under $100k and you get accepted you pay almost nothing.


THIS

This is true at pretty much ALL of the top schools and many of the second tier schools.
 
2014-03-29 12:33:56 PM  
The Ivies all have huge endowments.  Unless the parents are wealthy, a kid accepted into an Ivy will typically pay less than a kid at State U.

That's the way it was when I attended Rutgers (State U of NJ).  The average tuition bill for kids attending Princeton was lower.   This surprises people since the current average suggested retail at Princeton for tuition, room an board is $60K while the same sticker price at Rutgers is $25K.   The kids attending Princeton will get a lot more in the way of financial aid, grants etc.

I've been saying now for a long time, unless you can get into a top school, or a top-ish school, you're wasting your time.
 
2014-03-29 12:37:37 PM  

TedCruz'sCrazyDad: Yet Walmart has a lower acceptance rate.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/11/20/walmart-acceptance-rate-har va rd_n_4303527.html


Wait a minute, according to the right wing derp-o-sphere,  "those people" don't want to work.
 
2014-03-29 12:44:06 PM  

Fark_Guy_Rob: You don't need money to go to Harvard.
You don't need money to go to any school in the United States.

The US government will sign (essentially) blank checks to anyone who wants to go.  You don't need to be smart, or qualified, you just need to find a school that meets some VERY minimal requirements to accept you.  Then fill out a FAFSA.

I'm surrounded by US college kids who are studying abroad.  Yes - you can even use US student loans to pay for international schools.  They are able to borrow 70-80k USD per year.  And that money doesn't just cover tuition, it also covers cost of living.  And it's very generous.  These kids can afford week long trips all over Europe, all at the taxpayers dime.


They're not borrowing that much through FAFSA.  Maximum aggregate loan amount for undergraduates is $57,500, much less than what you claim they receive per year.  They might have a deal through a private bank (probably with parents as co-signers) but that's not on the taxpayers.

http://studentaid.ed.gov/types/loans/subsidized-unsubsidized#how-muc h- can-i-borrow
 
2014-03-29 12:56:26 PM  
What's the acceptance rate for stewardess applications?  0.2%?
 
2014-03-29 01:09:30 PM  

deaccessioned: Fark_Guy_Rob: You don't need money to go to Harvard.
You don't need money to go to any school in the United States.

The US government will sign (essentially) blank checks to anyone who wants to go.  You don't need to be smart, or qualified, you just need to find a school that meets some VERY minimal requirements to accept you.  Then fill out a FAFSA.

I'm surrounded by US college kids who are studying abroad.  Yes - you can even use US student loans to pay for international schools.  They are able to borrow 70-80k USD per year.  And that money doesn't just cover tuition, it also covers cost of living.  And it's very generous.  These kids can afford week long trips all over Europe, all at the taxpayers dime.

They're not borrowing that much through FAFSA.  Maximum aggregate loan amount for undergraduates is $57,500, much less than what you claim they receive per year.  They might have a deal through a private bank (probably with parents as co-signers) but that's not on the taxpayers.

http://studentaid.ed.gov/types/loans/subsidized-unsubsidized#how-muc h- can-i-borrow


I never claimed they were undergraduates.

It's a post-graduate program (veterinary medicine) - but before anyone goes off thinking I'm talking about rich Doctors - the median starting salary after they've completed their eight years of education is 50K USD.  The FAFSA programs, as far as I know, do not consider your ability to repay at all.  I can't say I'm versed in all the details of the Grad Plus loans, and I have heard there is a 'credit' component, but I know many students with no established credit history who are borrow 70-80k USD, depending on the exchange rate.

The US government comes up with a maximum cost of living based on where the school is (I'm in Dublin, Ireland, a relatively high cost of living area), but everything charged in EUR, so naturally the conversion rate has a big impact.  Still, the life style these students can afford is well beyond what most full-time workers can afford.

The undergrads might not be able to afford all the luxuries I'm talking about, but in any case, tuition and cost of living shouldn't be an issue except in unusual edge-cases.
 
2014-03-29 01:27:58 PM  

Fark_Guy_Rob: But even if you need student loans, you can get them. Nobody is too poor to go to college in the United States.


Um, massive student loans are a serious problem for the American economy.  Lots of kids who get these loans stay poor even after graduation.  Encouraging kids to go to expensive schools paid via loans is a bad idea.
 
2014-03-29 01:29:04 PM  

enry: SecretAgentWoman: I though Harvard was well known for giving top performers with financial need full ride scholarships? Am I wrong?

No. IIRC, if your family makes under $100k and you get accepted you pay almost nothing.


Not true. Our youngest graduated  around 10 years ago, and we're still paying off college loans. I sincerely doubt that colleges have  become free and easy with their money in the interim.
 
2014-03-29 01:36:13 PM  

Fark_Guy_Rob: deaccessioned: Fark_Guy_Rob: You don't need money to go to Harvard.

SNIP

I never claimed they were undergraduates.

It's a post-graduate program (veterinary medicine) - but before anyone goes off thinking I'm talking about rich Doctors - the median starting salary after they've completed their eight years of education is 50K USD.  The FAFSA programs, as far as I know, do not consider your ability to repay at all.  I can't say I'm versed in all the details of the Grad Plus loans, and I have heard there is a 'credit' component, but I know many students with no established credit history who are borrow 70-80k USD, depending on the exchange rate.

 Your numbers still don't add up.  Same link gives $138,500 as the max amount for graduate and professional students, and that includes all federal loans they have from their time as an undergrad.  So even if they have no loans as an undergrad, but their circumstances change to where they're eligible for 70-80k a year as a grad student, their loans still tap out their loans after roughly 1.5 - 2 years.


Looks like the vet medicine program is 3 years, option to go 4 at the University of Dublin.  So I guess now you're down to saying, "Never said they were three year students, I only know people who don't have any loans from their undergraduate education but qualified for 70k-80k for their graduate education and I only know them for 1.5 - 2 years but I can totally talk use that very narrow anecdote to talk about financial aid for everyone in America because it generalizes really well."

Feel free to just copy and paste that.  You're welcome.
 
2014-03-29 01:49:46 PM  

yakmans_dad: enry: SecretAgentWoman: I though Harvard was well known for giving top performers with financial need full ride scholarships? Am I wrong?

No. IIRC, if your family makes under $100k and you get accepted you pay almost nothing.

Not true. Our youngest graduated  around 10 years ago, and we're still paying off college loans. I sincerely doubt that colleges have  become free and easy with their money in the interim.


It's changed since it was first announced, but a family of 3 that makes $100k per year and has no other assets will pay about $13k per year to send their child to Harvard.
 
2014-03-29 01:59:42 PM  

yakmans_dad: enry: SecretAgentWoman: I though Harvard was well known for giving top performers with financial need full ride scholarships? Am I wrong?

No. IIRC, if your family makes under $100k and you get accepted you pay almost nothing.

Not true. Our youngest graduated  around 10 years ago, and we're still paying off college loans. I sincerely doubt that colleges have  become free and easy with their money in the interim.


Yes, but did your kid have OVER a 4.0 average and extra curricular activities that impress? I said top performers, not average joes.
 
2014-03-29 02:40:26 PM  

deaccessioned: Fark_Guy_Rob: deaccessioned: Fark_Guy_Rob: You don't need money to go to Harvard.
SNIP

I never claimed they were undergraduates.

It's a post-graduate program (veterinary medicine) - but before anyone goes off thinking I'm talking about rich Doctors - the median starting salary after they've completed their eight years of education is 50K USD.  The FAFSA programs, as far as I know, do not consider your ability to repay at all.  I can't say I'm versed in all the details of the Grad Plus loans, and I have heard there is a 'credit' component, but I know many students with no established credit history who are borrow 70-80k USD, depending on the exchange rate.
 Your numbers still don't add up.  Same link gives $138,500 as the max amount for graduate and professional students, and that includes all federal loans they have from their time as an undergrad.  So even if they have no loans as an undergrad, but their circumstances change to where they're eligible for 70-80k a year as a grad student, their loans still tap out their loans after roughly 1.5 - 2 years.


Looks like the vet medicine program is 3 years, option to go 4 at the University of Dublin.  So I guess now you're down to saying, "Never said they were three year students, I only know people who don't have any loans from their undergraduate education but qualified for 70k-80k for their graduate education and I only know them for 1.5 - 2 years but I can totally talk use that very narrow anecdote to talk about financial aid for everyone in America because it generalizes really well."

Feel free to just copy and paste that.  You're welcome.


I can say with 100% confidence you are wrong.

The veterinary medicine program at UCD is not three years.  International students who enter via the 'Graduate Entry' program will follow a four-year program.  I know this because my wife is one of them and I've been in Ireland for three years (and she has one year left).

Traditional Irish students follow a five year program (but aren't expected/required to already have an undergraduate degree).

From UCD's website
https://myucd.ucd.ie/program.do?programID=52
First & Second Year
Normal Animal Structure & Function
Animal Husbandry & Welfare
Animal Handling & Animal Experience
Third & Fourth Year
Pathobiological Sciences
Medicine
Surgery
Therapeutics
Herd Health
Epidemiology
Veterinary Public Health
Fifth Year
Clinical rotations in the UCD Veterinary Hospital
Elective Studies
Clinical Experience

The US/international students skip year one, they attend for four years (2-5).

I'll give you props for
1.)  Actually having a link to support your claims
2.)  At least pulling up UCD's website to see that it have a veterinary program

And I'll admit that student loans are complicated.  Your original link shows a table of subsidized and subsidized student loan limits and it's completely accurate.  But have a look at this page, from the same website you've linked:   http://studentaid.ed.gov/types/loans

It lists four types of Direct Loans
* Subsidized Loans
* Unsubsidized Loans
* Direct PLUS Loans
* and some consolidation loan crap

The limits you've linked are correct but they don't include Direct Plus loans.  As far as I know, there *aren't* limits for the Direct PLUS Loans.

The remainder of your college costs not covered by other financial aid in Direct PLUS Loans. Note: A credit check is required for a PLUS loan

They estimate your college costs (and boy is it a generous estimate).  That's the 70-80k amount I'm talking about.  My first year here, my wife and I took the full amount.  Now that was broken down into a small amount of subsidized, 20k of unsubsidized and like 50k in 'PLUS' loan.

The plus loan has a joke of a credit check - as long as you have declared bankruptcy, it seems to be no problem to get a loan for however much you need.

The amount they estimate is well beyond what you'd need to be a 'poor college student'.  I'm relatively close to a large number of American students here, none of which are even legally permitted to work in the EU.  Some do have rich parents, some are entirely funded by student loans from the US Government.  They fill out a FAFSA, they get a giant check.  It goes to the University first, they get the remainder.
 
2014-03-29 02:44:31 PM  
My point is just that, except in extreme cases, your income does not impact the ability of US students to go to college.  There is a near endless amount of loan options available.

I'm not saying loans are great or that there aren't downsides.  But anyone who turns down Harvard because they think they are poor....well....that's probably not someone Harvard would accept in the first place.

Now sure, maybe you'd rather go to an in-state school so you pay less.  That's cool.  But the *option* of attending an expensive out of state school (or in my case, international school) is totally available, thanks to *generous student loan programs.

(Generous in the sense you can get the money.  The repayment stuff....not so much)
 
2014-03-29 03:54:29 PM  

SecretAgentWoman: yakmans_dad: enry: SecretAgentWoman: I though Harvard was well known for giving top performers with financial need full ride scholarships? Am I wrong?

No. IIRC, if your family makes under $100k and you get accepted you pay almost nothing.

Not true. Our youngest graduated  around 10 years ago, and we're still paying off college loans. I sincerely doubt that colleges have  become free and easy with their money in the interim.

Yes, but did your kid have OVER a 4.0 average and extra curricular activities that impress? I said top performers, not average joes.


Average joes aren't accepted to Harvard, unless their last name is Kennedy, or Bush, or Rockefeller, or Carnegie, etc..
 
2014-03-29 04:12:45 PM  

space1999: Fark_Guy_Rob: But even if you need student loans, you can get them. Nobody is too poor to go to college in the United States.

Um, massive student loans are a serious problem for the American economy.  Lots of kids who get these loans stay poor even after graduation.  Encouraging kids to go to expensive schools paid via loans is a bad idea.


If you're actually poor, you can get an income based repayment plan.
 
2014-03-29 05:49:06 PM  

enry: SecretAgentWoman: I though Harvard was well known for giving top performers with financial need full ride scholarships? Am I wrong?

No. IIRC, if your family makes under $100k and you get accepted you pay almost nothing.


You don't believe that do you?
 
2014-03-29 05:54:34 PM  

AlgertMan: enry: SecretAgentWoman: I though Harvard was well known for giving top performers with financial need full ride scholarships? Am I wrong?

No. IIRC, if your family makes under $100k and you get accepted you pay almost nothing.

You don't believe that do you?


I was wrong.  It wasn't $100k.  It was $65k to get a free pass to Harvard. At $100k you're paying about $13k/year.
 
2014-03-29 05:58:26 PM  

Fark_Guy_Rob: When they graduate, they'll have a mountain of student loan debt. Then, they fill out the appropriate paperwork and switch to an 'Income Based Repayment Plan' where, despite owing hundreds of thousands of dollars, they pay based on their income.


...and as it currently stands (they're talking about changing it with the current budgets, and it's an open question of if the changes are retroactive or not), after 20 years of IBR payment everything else is forgiven under Pay As You Earn (PAYE) or 10 years working for the government or a non-profit (Public Service Loan Forgiveness (PSLF)). What's going to be interesting is in a couple years once all of the physicians start taking advantage of PSLF since 99% of residencies are either government run (county hospitals, etc) or non-profits, hence qualifying.

Granted, before anyone gets outraged over the rich physicians getting hundreds of thousands of dollars of repayment, the interest rates for Grad Plus is 6.8% and medical school tuition has skyrocketed while physician reimbursement has steadily declined. It's not uncommon for physicians fresh out of residency to have $4-600k in debt once interest is counted (we aren't paying much down while making 40-50k in residency).
 
2014-03-29 06:37:47 PM  

Fark_Guy_Rob: Direct Plus loans

I can say with 100% confidence you are wrong.

The veterinary medicine program at UCD is not three years.  International students who enter via the 'Graduate Entry' program will follow a four-year program.  I know this because my wife is one of them and I've been in Ireland for three years (and she has one year left).


*sigh*  "The programme is offered on a full-time basis, requiring a minimum of 3 years FTE attendance with an optional extension in year 4."
From: http://www.ucd.ie/vetmed/graduateprogrammes/professional%20doctorate% 2 0dvms/

Since you were basing financial aid on a per year basis, and your numbers weren't adding up, I went ahead and used 3 years to give you the benefit of the doubt as much as possible.  And they still didn't add up.

But the length of the program is not the point.  Your original post asserted that you could fill out a FAFSA and get 70-80k a year in student loans and tour Europe "all on the taxpayers dime."  Direct Plus loans (which are for undergrads) and Graduate Plus loans (guessing you can figure out who those are for yourself), while federally guaranteed, are borrowed from a bank or other lending institution.  Usually Sallie Mae.  They also have a vig and interest rates that would make a loan shark blush, but that's another story (not really, but it's pretty bad, last I checked they were close to 8%, and unsubsidized).

You are correct that the federal guarantee means the credit check is pretty much "So, you planning on spending all this on cocaine and prostitutes?  Because we're cool with that, as long as you don't have a history of credit fraud and bounced checks."  But ain't nobody getting 70k a year for four years exclusively from the Fed to go to school.

/Congrats to your wife
//Not sure how veterinary school works in a country where they invented stuffing things in animals stomachs and eating them
///Is the culinary school next to the veterinary school?
 
2014-03-29 06:40:27 PM  

Fark_Guy_Rob: My point is just that, except in extreme cases, your income does not impact the ability of US students to go to college.  There is a near endless amount of loan options available.

I'm not saying loans are great or that there aren't downsides.  But anyone who turns down Harvard because they think they are poor....well....that's probably not someone Harvard would accept in the first place.

Now sure, maybe you'd rather go to an in-state school so you pay less.  That's cool.  But the *option* of attending an expensive out of state school (or in my case, international school) is totally available, thanks to *generous student loan programs.

(Generous in the sense you can get the money.  The repayment stuff....not so much)


This I agree with, especially the last sentence.
 
2014-03-29 07:08:33 PM  

namatad: enry: SecretAgentWoman: I though Harvard was well known for giving top performers with financial need full ride scholarships? Am I wrong?

No. IIRC, if your family makes under $100k and you get accepted you pay almost nothing.

THIS

This is true at pretty much ALL of the top schools and many of the second tier schools.


And it isn't limited to 'top performers'.  They don't rely on merit-based aid.  If you get accepted, they will make it affordable, at least at the top places (hahvahd, MIT, etc).
 
2014-03-29 08:17:45 PM  

Fissile: I've been saying now for a long time, unless you can get into a top school, or a top-ish school, you're wasting your time.


It depends on what you're studying. I took my degree in math, and went to a top-ish school (UW Madison). It turns out that a math degree from Podunk U is worth the same. Math is math, and you learn the same thing, from (for the most part) the exact same text books, no matter where you go.
 
2014-03-30 02:09:40 AM  

Fissile: I've been saying now for a long time, unless you can get into a top school, or a top-ish school, you're wasting your time.


Are you serious? So I shouldn't have gone to cheap0 state college? I finished two undergrad degrees, a masters and a PhD in physics, all with minimal parental contribution and NO DEBT. I met kids from MIT who weren't any smarter than I was, but they certainly spent more on their college education. Not to say that there aren't geniuses out there who really need to be in those top places, rather than at Podunk U, there are plenty of such cases. But it doesn't constitute the entire student body of, say Harvard.
 
2014-03-30 09:43:33 AM  

proteus_b: Fissile: I've been saying now for a long time, unless you can get into a top school, or a top-ish school, you're wasting your time.

Are you serious? So I shouldn't have gone to cheap0 state college? I finished two undergrad degrees, a masters and a PhD in physics, all with minimal parental contribution and NO DEBT. I met kids from MIT who weren't any smarter than I was, but they certainly spent more on their college education. Not to say that there aren't geniuses out there who really need to be in those top places, rather than at Podunk U, there are plenty of such cases. But it doesn't constitute the entire student body of, say Harvard.


Yeah.  When I was at Rutgers, I met loads of people just like you:  People who were convinced that State U was the equal of Princeton, and that they could have gotten into an Ivy, but they didn't want to.  Well, I could ave gotten into an Ivy as well....if I had the grades, class rank, and SAT scores, but little details like that tripped me up.

Fact is that the median IQ for Ivy League students is 140+, while IQ scores for State U students is around 120.  A 20 point IQ spread is significant.  Yup, SAT scores correlate pretty closely with IQ.

I'm sure your mom was just being a good mom when she told you that you're a special snowflake.  You're not.  Time to grow up.
 
2014-03-30 02:17:01 PM  

deaccessioned: Fark_Guy_Rob: Direct Plus loans

I can say with 100% confidence you are wrong.

The veterinary medicine program at UCD is not three years.  International students who enter via the 'Graduate Entry' program will follow a four-year program.  I know this because my wife is one of them and I've been in Ireland for three years (and she has one year left).

*sigh*  "The programme is offered on a full-time basis, requiring a minimum of 3 years FTE attendance with an optional extension in year 4."
From: http://www.ucd.ie/vetmed/graduateprogrammes/professional%20doctorate% 2 0dvms/

Since you were basing financial aid on a per year basis, and your numbers weren't adding up, I went ahead and used 3 years to give you the benefit of the doubt as much as possible.  And they still didn't add up.

But the length of the program is not the point.  Your original post asserted that you could fill out a FAFSA and get 70-80k a year in student loans and tour Europe "all on the taxpayers dime."  Direct Plus loans (which are for undergrads) and Graduate Plus loans (guessing you can figure out who those are for yourself), while federally guaranteed, are borrowed from a bank or other lending institution.  Usually Sallie Mae.  They also have a vig and interest rates that would make a loan shark blush, but that's another story (not really, but it's pretty bad, last I checked they were close to 8%, and unsubsidized).

You are correct that the federal guarantee means the credit check is pretty much "So, you planning on spending all this on cocaine and prostitutes?  Because we're cool with that, as long as you don't have a history of credit fraud and bounced checks."  But ain't nobody getting 70k a year for four years exclusively from the Fed to go to school.

/Congrats to your wife
//Not sure how veterinary school works in a country where they invented stuffing things in animals stomachs and eating them
///Is the culinary school next to the veterinary school?


I think you are splitting hairs for the sake of argument.  There is no way in hell any private business would lend these amounts to students.  The direct plus loans are, at least, a partnership between the Federal Government and quazi-private organizations.  There are certainly US students, spending four years in Ireland, receiving 70-80k USD, per year.  The federal government guarantees the loans.

It's all thanks to the tax payers.

I appreciate you giving me the benefit of the doubt when using three years - but the implication seemed to be that, not only were my numbers wrong, but I didn't even know how long the veterinary medicine program was!  Your link is basically the vet 'Phd' program.  And yes, it exists.  But it's existence certainly doesn't imply that the DVM program isn't 4 years.
 
2014-03-30 05:28:57 PM  

Fark_Guy_Rob: Then fill out a FAFSA.


Well, and have your parents fill out a FAFSA. And have your parents provide the amount of money the government thinks they should.  You are not independent on the FAFSA just because your parents don't claim you as a dependent -- you also have to be 24-years-old. You can be 23, own your own home, have lived away from your parents for the past 6 years, have a dead mother and a father you never knew (but is listed on your birth certificate), and still not be eligible for aid because you're a dependent by FAFSA standards and your father didn't submit his information. There are some case-by-case waivers available for things like incarcerated parents and the like, but you have to find an exception for your situation and the burden of proof is on the student.

Also note that the limits for federal student loans are actually not very high -- not even half of the in-state estimate-cost-of-attendance in my state:http://www.direct.ed.gov/applying.html#loan

None of which is to say it's impossible to go to school if you're poor. But the idea that you can just fill out a form and go to school on a government loan is not even close to true.
 
2014-03-30 07:33:43 PM  

Fissile: Yeah.  When I was at Rutgers, I met loads of people just like you:  People who were convinced that State U was the equal of Princeton, and that they could have gotten into an Ivy, but they didn't want to.  Well, I could ave gotten into an Ivy as well....if I had the grades, class rank, and SAT scores, but little details like that tripped me up.


Child, I had the grades, class rank and SAT scores to get into Princeton, but I didn't apply there because what I didn't have was your cocksucking attitude towards people whose "fundamentally decencies were parcelled out unequally at birth". I bet you're really nice to your servants though, or at least you tell yourself that.
 
2014-03-30 08:23:17 PM  

proteus_b: Fissile: Yeah.  When I was at Rutgers, I met loads of people just like you:  People who were convinced that State U was the equal of Princeton, and that they could have gotten into an Ivy, but they didn't want to.  Well, I could ave gotten into an Ivy as well....if I had the grades, class rank, and SAT scores, but little details like that tripped me up.

Child, I had the grades, class rank and SAT scores to get into Princeton, but I didn't apply there because what I didn't have was your cocksucking attitude towards people whose "fundamentally decencies were parcelled out unequally at birth". I bet you're really nice to your servants though, or at least you tell yourself that.


bemaslanka.files.wordpress.com
 
2014-03-30 09:40:48 PM  

Fissile: proteus_b: Fissile: Yeah.  When I was at Rutgers, I met loads of people just like you:  People who were convinced that State U was the equal of Princeton, and that they could have gotten into an Ivy, but they didn't want to.  Well, I could ave gotten into an Ivy as well....if I had the grades, class rank, and SAT scores, but little details like that tripped me up.

Child, I had the grades, class rank and SAT scores to get into Princeton, but I didn't apply there because what I didn't have was your cocksucking attitude towards people whose "fundamentally decencies were parcelled out unequally at birth". I bet you're really nice to your servants though, or at least you tell yourself that.


Heh you two are cute. At the end of the day, are you confident the path you took was the right choice given your circumstance? That's all the really matters.

/I could have done a lot better but catching up fast
//135k/yr @37yrs house+wife+2 small kids
 
2014-03-30 10:11:22 PM  

chasd00: Fissile: proteus_b: Fissile: Yeah.  When I was at Rutgers, I met loads of people just like you:  People who were convinced that State U was the equal of Princeton, and that they could have gotten into an Ivy, but they didn't want to.  Well, I could ave gotten into an Ivy as well....if I had the grades, class rank, and SAT scores, but little details like that tripped me up.

Child, I had the grades, class rank and SAT scores to get into Princeton, but I didn't apply there because what I didn't have was your cocksucking attitude towards people whose "fundamentally decencies were parcelled out unequally at birth". I bet you're really nice to your servants though, or at least you tell yourself that.

Heh you two are cute. At the end of the day, are you confident the path you took was the right choice given your circumstance? That's all the really matters.

/I could have done a lot better but catching up fast
//135k/yr @37yrs house+wife+2 small kids


You "I'm as smart as an Ivy League grad" types are so predictable that I can set my watch by you.  "I earn Insert impressive amount here"    I got news for you, the cops in my town average $140K per year, and very few of them are college grads.  My friend the plumbing contractor makes considerably more than that and he never set foot in a college classroom.   You're not special, trust me on that.
 
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