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(io9)   Remember 35 years ago when we had a partial nuclear meltdown in Pennsylvania? Good times, good times   (observationdeck.io9.com) divider line 124
    More: Scary, Pennsylvania, meltdown  
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4858 clicks; posted to Main » on 28 Mar 2014 at 8:37 PM (16 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



124 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2014-03-28 07:19:54 PM
Oh wow. Now I feel very very old.
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2014-03-28 07:30:18 PM
When Americans and their reactors go wrong, they make an expensive mess in a reactor building.

When Japanese and their reactors go wrong, they melt down and leak radiation.

When Russians and their reactors go wrong, they blow up and spew radiation.
 
2014-03-28 07:37:14 PM

ZAZ: When Americans and their reactors go wrong, they make an expensive mess in a reactor building.

When Japanese and their reactors go wrong, they melt down and leak radiation.

When Russians and their reactors go wrong, they blow up and spew radiation.


Good lord, I really hope you are not equating Chernobyl and Fukushima with 3 Mile Island...
 
2014-03-28 07:40:28 PM
My exhusband was there; he died of lung cancer a few years ago; coincidence I'm sure.
 
2014-03-28 07:52:42 PM
Again. Go watch Pandora's Promise. It's on Netflix.
 
2014-03-28 07:56:10 PM

enry: Again. Go watch Pandora's Promise. It's on Netflix.


This...
 
2014-03-28 08:06:11 PM
I was in the area at the time.

Granted I wasn't quite two at the time, but it counts.
 
2014-03-28 08:16:13 PM

SilentStrider: I was in the area at the time.

Granted I wasn't quite two at the time, but it counts.


I was 12 and it was scary but the main thing I remember is lots of jokes about Hershey's chocolate that Easter.
 
2014-03-28 08:28:26 PM
That would explain all of my nipples.
 
2014-03-28 08:39:39 PM

ginandbacon: Oh wow. Now I feel very very old.


Right? And I remember the hay the 'No Nukes' crowd made of it, and the movie. Good times!
 
2014-03-28 08:41:29 PM

gopher321: ZAZ: When Americans and their reactors go wrong, they make an expensive mess in a reactor building.

When Japanese and their reactors go wrong, they melt down and leak radiation.

When Russians and their reactors go wrong, they blow up and spew radiation.

Good lord, I really hope you are not equating Chernobyl and Fukushima with 3 Mile Island...


By all means, counsel, distinguish them for us.

/no, really. I'm curious.
 
2014-03-28 08:41:58 PM
I remember a friend of mine (I was maybe eight) wearing a T-shirt with a cartoony drawing of the cooling towers on it with smoke curling up out of them into the word "LIE". We were frankly skeptical of the nuclear industry at that point.
 
2014-03-28 08:44:41 PM
I was 7 and remember it. Some neighborhood families evacuated, but we didn't. I still see it almost daily when I cross the river and my employer actually gives out potassium tabs (I think that's what they are anyway) when you get hired. Fun stuff.
 
2014-03-28 08:45:14 PM
Before anyone brands me an emerald-green crunchy environazi, let me just state that nuclear power would be a perfectly good source of concentrated energy, except we went with the political payoff greasy palms form of building land-based nuke plants instead of the failsafe, safety-first form you'll find on nuclear carriers and submarines.
 
2014-03-28 08:45:36 PM
My God. Love Canal was 35 years ago. Damn I feel old.
 
2014-03-28 08:46:03 PM
Get out of here, Stalker!
 
2014-03-28 08:47:29 PM

theorellior: I remember a friend of mine (I was maybe eight) wearing a T-shirt with a cartoony drawing of the cooling towers on it with smoke curling up out of them into the word "LIE". We were frankly skeptical of the nuclear industry at that point.



static.fjcdn.com

Cooling towers do not work that way!
 
2014-03-28 08:48:56 PM
I recall The China Syndrome was in theaters at the time. The line about contaminating an area the size of Pennsylvania seemed especially apt.

Soon afterward, I found myself in Pennsylvania working at the Limerick power plant.
Good times, indeed!
 
2014-03-28 08:49:12 PM
I was two back then, and we (me, Mom, my baby brother, and Grandma) were shopping in the Colonial Park Mall when a woman came running towards us screaming "Three Mile Island's melting down!  We're all gonna die!"  She then grabbed me away from Mom, yelling "We have to save the children!" and tried to run off with me, but was tackled by my short but wide Grandma before she got too far.

The three of us ended up staying with my grandparents, who kept all doors and windows shut tightly, until we got word that everything was safe, while Dad went about business as usual in Camp Hill.
 
2014-03-28 08:49:51 PM

insertdip: theorellior: I remember a friend of mine (I was maybe eight) wearing a T-shirt with a cartoony drawing of the cooling towers on it with smoke curling up out of them into the word "LIE". We were frankly skeptical of the nuclear industry at that point.




Cooling towers do not work that way!


You'll have to take that up with my friend or the cartoonist who drew the shirt, Morbo. All I know is, the sentiment was perfectly conveyed.
 
2014-03-28 08:50:27 PM
no, I wasn't even a glimmer in my father's testicles.
 
2014-03-28 08:51:20 PM
Wait... Didn't Chernobyl start in the middle of the night/morning? The moon is destroying our plants!
 
2014-03-28 08:51:30 PM
Pepsi syndrome?

/how big is the president?
//obscure?
 
2014-03-28 08:51:36 PM
I was 10 years old at the time, and I still remember the resultant hysteria, especially since we got our news from Philadelphia stations. Looking back, you'd think that the landscape was littered with the rotting corpses of the victims.

In reality, there was not one fatality attributed to this incident. Not one.
 
2014-03-28 08:51:41 PM

KellyKellyKelly: I was two back then, and we (me, Mom, my baby brother, and Grandma) were shopping in the Colonial Park Mall when a woman came running towards us screaming "Three Mile Island's melting down!  We're all gonna die!"  She then grabbed me away from Mom, yelling "We have to save the children!" and tried to run off with me, but was tackled by my short but wide Grandma before she got too far.

The three of us ended up staying with my grandparents, who kept all doors and windows shut tightly, until we got word that everything was safe, while Dad went about business as usual in Camp Hill.


Jesus. O_O
 
2014-03-28 08:51:46 PM

insertdip: theorellior: I remember a friend of mine (I was maybe eight) wearing a T-shirt with a cartoony drawing of the cooling towers on it with smoke curling up out of them into the word "LIE". We were frankly skeptical of the nuclear industry at that point.




Cooling towers do not work that way!


It literally did not matter. I don't thinknuclear is really a good idea, but the way the No Nukes crowd pounced on that shiat and fearmongered was shameful.
 
2014-03-28 08:54:45 PM
www.voxboxcomics.com
 
2014-03-28 08:55:15 PM

gopher321: Good lord, I really hope you are not equating Chernobyl and Fukushima with 3 Mile Island...


You may have missed the rather blatant and obvious contrast in the last half of the sentences...
 
2014-03-28 08:55:48 PM

Captain Steroid: KellyKellyKelly: I was two back then, and we (me, Mom, my baby brother, and Grandma) were shopping in the Colonial Park Mall when a woman came running towards us screaming "Three Mile Island's melting down!  We're all gonna die!"  She then grabbed me away from Mom, yelling "We have to save the children!" and tried to run off with me, but was tackled by my short but wide Grandma before she got too far.

The three of us ended up staying with my grandparents, who kept all doors and windows shut tightly, until we got word that everything was safe, while Dad went about business as usual in Camp Hill.

Jesus. O_O


*shrugs*  It's Central PA.  People are just insane there in general.

/living proof
 
2014-03-28 08:58:01 PM
Pepsi syndrome?

/how big is the president?
//obscure?


On Fark? Neutron, please..

/Paging Rodney Dangerfield...
 
2014-03-28 09:00:01 PM
I was in college at the time and we had regular presentations by visiting "energy experts" extolling the benefits of nuclear power. They would explain how it was perfectly safe with no chance of accident due to the most perfect engineering ever. Every one of them was a government employee.

After this fiasco they never showed up again.
 
2014-03-28 09:01:10 PM
My third head remembers.
 
2014-03-28 09:02:17 PM

MFAWG: ginandbacon: Oh wow. Now I feel very very old.

Right? And I remember the hay the 'No Nukes' crowd made of it, and the movie. Good times!


Oh yeah. The principal of my school got himself arrested demonstrating (Quaker school, lots of protesting and hiding Nicaraguans.) My mother and little brother went off to Seabrook for a protest. (They didn't get arrested.) But my best friend's father was a nuclear engineer and he very patiently explained that nuclear is really pretty safe and much cleaner that fossil fuels so I stayed home.

That might have been my first act of teenage rebellion...
 
2014-03-28 09:02:26 PM
"remember"? no... i'm 32.

more interesting in PA is that town that's been on top of that burning coal mine for however many years.
 
2014-03-28 09:02:58 PM

theorellior: Before anyone brands me an emerald-green crunchy environazi, let me just state that nuclear power would be a perfectly good source of concentrated energy, except we went with the political payoff greasy palms form of building land-based nuke plants instead of the failsafe, safety-first form you'll find on nuclear carriers and submarines.


And no one wants to build the kind you can't use for enrichment... just in case.
 
2014-03-28 09:05:24 PM

JoieD'Zen: My exhusband was there; he died of lung cancer a few years ago; coincidence I'm sure.


I'm sorry for your loss, but the cigarette smoke in the employee break room (it was the '70s!) probably was a bigger contributing factor than the accident.
 
2014-03-28 09:06:24 PM
I had my thyroid removed 3 years ago.  My best friend is being killed by her thyroid cancer.  We were 7 when it happened.  The cancer rates are significantly higher there.  You could see the towers from my mother's back yard in the fall.

The Facebook page for locals that want to compare notes is years of cancer and other issues that could be radiation related.
 
2014-03-28 09:07:15 PM
TMI, subby.
TMI.
 
2014-03-28 09:07:21 PM

dv-ous: JoieD'Zen: My exhusband was there; he died of lung cancer a few years ago; coincidence I'm sure.

I'm sorry for your loss, but the cigarette smoke in the employee break room (it was the '70s!) probably was a bigger contributing factor than the accident.


yup. that or the asbestos insulation
 
2014-03-28 09:10:59 PM
My great-uncle was sent there as an observer. He said overall the event was pretty overblown.
 
2014-03-28 09:12:02 PM
Clearly the solution is to rely on coal fired plants to continuously pollute our planet
 
2014-03-28 09:12:06 PM
"Remember... you can't put too much water in a nuclear reactor."
 
2014-03-28 09:13:09 PM
I was 23 at the time. Being a little over 200miles away from the sight, we were joking at work that soon we could cook with the lights out because the food would be glowing bright enough.
 
2014-03-28 09:13:54 PM
It produced a lot of 34 year old vegetables too apparently.
 
2014-03-28 09:14:37 PM

New Age Redneck: Pepsi syndrome?

/how big is the president?
//obscure?


He's so big he could have an affair with the Lincoln Tunnel!
 
2014-03-28 09:15:27 PM

MFAWG: ginandbacon: Oh wow. Now I feel very very old.

Right? And I remember the hay the 'No Nukes' crowd made of it, and the movie. Good times!


Except that the movie came out before the Three Mile Island incident.  I remember Newsweek bashing that movie for making people nervous about nuclear energy, saying that American power plants were so safe no Chine Syndrome incident would ever happen.  A week after that issue came out we had the Three Mile Island incident.  Rel Karma there.
 
2014-03-28 09:22:24 PM

Summoner101: Clearly the solution is to rely on coal fired plants to continuously pollute our planet


I hope I get to be coal someday
 
2014-03-28 09:23:58 PM

The_Original_Roxtar: "remember"? no... i'm 32.

more interesting in PA is that town that's been on top of that burning coal mine for however many years.


until you actually go there and it's just an old road and some smoke coming out of the ground. honestly the ride out there is more interesting.
 
2014-03-28 09:25:19 PM

Robin Hoodie: Summoner101: Clearly the solution is to rely on coal fired plants to continuously pollute our planet

I hope I get to be coal someday


Virginia claims that coal is clean. If Obama is trying to get rid of coal energy, it must be true!
 
2014-03-28 09:26:21 PM
Since Unit 1 is still operating and got its license renewed, they won't finish cleaning up Unit 2 (the melty one) for another 20 years when they decommission the site.
 
2014-03-28 09:28:11 PM
static.rogerebert.com

That's Wilford Brimley on the right, before the diabeetus.
 
2014-03-28 09:37:16 PM
As a worker in the industry, it's the number 1 thing that happened to change the way we do business... If my plant has a problem with a certain type of breaker, a message gets sent out to all plants detailing the issue and the resolution, since a plant that was a twin to TMI had a similar problem a few months prior to TMI happening, yet stopped the problem before it caused a meltdown...

Part of the problem is the inherent nature of the business being secretive... We're afraid of other countries stealing our technology that we used to clam up on info, claiming some BS industrial privacy as to why we're quiet, when open communication made for better operators, informed as to how certain problems happened at other plants and what they did wrong or right to fix them...
 
2014-03-28 09:43:32 PM

ZAZ: When Americans and their reactors go wrong, they make an expensive mess in a reactor building.

When Japanese and their reactors go wrong, they melt down and leak radiation.

When Russians and their reactors go wrong, they blow up and spew radiation.


All three of those put together didn't kill as many people as a decent coal mine collapse.
 
2014-03-28 09:45:36 PM

New Age Redneck: Pepsi syndrome?

/how big is the president?
//obscure?


This was the first thing I thought of. XD

I was hoping to see a picture of giant Jimmy Carter looking into the window.
 
2014-03-28 09:45:43 PM
Good times. I was 7 at the time and remember going to visit family in Wilkes Barre with a great uncle who was a mortician.

/hmmmm
 
2014-03-28 09:46:05 PM

NIXON YOU DOLT!!!!!: gopher321: ZAZ: When Americans and their reactors go wrong, they make an expensive mess in a reactor building.

When Japanese and their reactors go wrong, they melt down and leak radiation.

When Russians and their reactors go wrong, they blow up and spew radiation.

Good lord, I really hope you are not equating Chernobyl and Fukushima with 3 Mile Island...


By all means, counsel, distinguish them for us.

/no, really. I'm curious.


The only thing that the three have in common is that they were nuclear accidents that had economic consequences.

Three Mile Island was purely an economic accident.  Nobody died.  I say that, but to be fair, statistically, 0.7 people died, if you assume the radiation release stayed in a big cloud and a person breathed it for some absurdly long time.  I remember doing this calculation in my nuclear engineering classes in college.  TMI is best analogized to this kind of accident:  you change the oil on your car and forget to put new oil back in.  Then you drive your car and the engine seizes up.  Car is ruined!  Won't ever run again!  Bummer!  Luckily, nobody hurt.

Fukushima is the result of a giant tidal wave of Biblical proportions.  The tidal wave wiped out infrastructure to keep the nuclear fuel cool.  Therefore, there was a meltdown, just like TMI, i.e., in the analogy, "shiat!  My car is shot!!"  Now, there are deaths from Fukushima, but those "deaths" are in the form of slightly elevated cancer rates among certain people living right next to the plant.  More people died from the evacuation of the public than those that will die from the Fukushima radiation.

Chernobyl.  Where to even farking start?  Russia farked this from the word jump, killed thousands of people, killed its soldiers trying to contain the mess, etc.  Bad all around.  No "car engine" analogy is even suitable.  Chernobyl had a fundamentally different (and inherently unstable) reactor design.  It is not physically possible for a U.S. reactor to explode like Chernobyl did.  (for the nuclear engineers:  U.S. reactors have a negative temperature and void coefficient of reactivity; for Chernobyl they were positive(!!) )

Want to talk about truly bad industry accidents?  Don't look at nuclear.  Check out the Bhopal India disaster:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bhopal_disaster


tl;dr:  TMI is like forgetting to put oil in your car, now engine is ruined; Fukushima is like driving your car off a cliff, two people dead; Chernobyl is like the 9-11 terrorist attacks.
 
2014-03-28 09:46:26 PM

mephisto_kur: I had my thyroid removed 3 years ago.  My best friend is being killed by her thyroid cancer.  We were 7 when it happened.  The cancer rates are significantly higher there.  You could see the towers from my mother's back yard in the fall.

The Facebook page for locals that want to compare notes is years of cancer and other issues that could be radiation related.


I was 3 when it happened.  I have thyroid issues.  So does my mom and most of my family on my mother's side.

That being said, my grandma and several others going back generations have had thyroid issues.  Maybe TMI made aggrevated them, but we (meaning my family) are definitely genetically predisposed to thyroid issues.

debug: I was 7 and remember it. Some neighborhood families evacuated, but we didn't. I still see it almost daily when I cross the river and my employer actually gives out potassium tabs (I think that's what they are anyway) when you get hired. Fun stuff.


That would be potassium-iodide pills.  It's the Iodine in them that help prevent/treat ratiation poisoning.  It pushes the radioactive Iodine (byproduct of a meltdown) out of the body by replacing it in the thyroid, allowing your body to piss it out.

theorellior: Before anyone brands me an emerald-green crunchy environazi, let me just state that nuclear power would be a perfectly good source of concentrated energy, except we went with the political payoff greasy palms form of building land-based nuke plants instead of the failsafe, safety-first form you'll find on nuclear carriers and submarines.


So much this,  I got my Industrial Engineering degree at Penn State.  One of our classes was exploring the nuclear reactor on campus and analyzing the fail-safe systems.  90% of the "problems" with nuclear plants is that the people and government freaked out and put a moratorium on building new plants and upgrading old ones**.  That meant that the plants that are in existence are all EXTREMELY old technology, with all the safety features 1977 had to offer.  The old "rod" style reactures also have MUCH worse byproducts than the newer style reactors.  Hell, the control and safety software for the on campus still  requires DOS 3.0 because they were not allowed to upgrade it (per the NRC)**.  The new "pebble bed" style reactors have 0% chance of meltdown.  Even in a Fukushima-type earthquake wouldn't contaminate anything further than a few hundred feet, at most.

** That informal NRC ban has been rescinded in 2010.  Many older style ones have begun modernizing and several new ones have been approved, though, after Fukushima, several have been put on hold or ended due to uneducated people making decisions they know little about.

/ It's OK to be anti-nuclear power, just know the real issues and dangers behind it rather than what your cousin's uncle's ex-roommate forwarded you on facebook or email.
 
2014-03-28 09:50:58 PM
Being a nuclear engineer and in DC on business a few days after the accident, I drove on up there. It wax funny watching all the camera crews jockeying for position for the one spot where they could get the plant in the background for their 30 seconds of terror bit. Multiple takes due to the traffic drowning them out, and the occasional car horn too.

Chatted with the guy who lived across the street from the bridge over to the plant. Emergency people gave him a dosimeter but no instructions. I told him it was fine for now, but if the little red line started moving, he should too.

Good times indeed.
 
2014-03-28 09:56:02 PM

Gunboat: tl;dr: TMI is like forgetting to put oil in your car, now engine is ruined; Fukushima is like driving your car off a cliff, two people dead; Chernobyl is like the 9-11 terrorist attacks.


Agreed.  Fail-safe** in the USA reactors basically make it impossible for explosion, even in catestrophic failure.  I particularly was floored out how few control rods were needed to completely shut the reaction down. (PSU reactor uses a hexegonal packed, vertical fuel rod arrangement).

First few times there, I found the Cherenkov radiation is so visually astounding.  That blue glow is hypnotizing.

**For those reading, Fail-safe literally means that.  If the system fails for any reason, if ends up in a "Safe" state.  In the case of the PSU reactor, the control rods are lifted by electromagnets, which exposes the fuel rods to each other so the reaction can begin.  In the case of failure (such as a power outage or any other myriad of checks), gravity takes the control rods back down and separates the fuel rods so they can't react.  As the tech in charge there told us, "Pretty much the only way to cause a run-away chain reaction would be to rip the entire building out of the ground and turn it upsidedown without destroying it."
 
2014-03-28 09:56:49 PM

New Age Redneck: Pepsi syndrome?

/how big is the president?
//obscure?


no...
 
2014-03-28 09:59:37 PM
NUKULAR NEVUR HURT NOBODY NEVUR GODDAM LIBBY LIBZ
 
2014-03-28 10:02:01 PM
1.bp.blogspot.com
 
2014-03-28 10:02:52 PM

abmoraz: So much this, I got my Industrial Engineering degree at Penn State. One of our classes was exploring the nuclear reactor on campus and analyzing the fail-safe systems.


TMI was pretty much the go-to example for all things you should take seriously in engineering at Penn State, wasn't it?

Technical writing is important!  Here's example blaming TMI on bad writing.
Proper rounding of decimals is important!  Here's example blaming TMI on rounding errors.
Unit testing software is important!  Here's example blaming TMI on failure to do unit testing (never mind that the vast majority of systems were analog).
Frequency-domain analysis is important!  Here's example blaming TMI on over-emphasis on time-domain performance.
Sizing bolts properly is important!  Here's example blaming TMI on improperly sized bolts.

etc. etc.
 
2014-03-28 10:09:10 PM

Gunboat: NIXON YOU DOLT!!!!!: gopher321: ZAZ: When Americans and their reactors go wrong, they make an expensive mess in a reactor building.

When Japanese and their reactors go wrong, they melt down and leak radiation.

When Russians and their reactors go wrong, they blow up and spew radiation.

Good lord, I really hope you are not equating Chernobyl and Fukushima with 3 Mile Island...


By all means, counsel, distinguish them for us.

/no, really. I'm curious.

The only thing that the three have in common is that they were nuclear accidents that had economic consequences.

Three Mile Island was purely an economic accident.  Nobody died.  I say that, but to be fair, statistically, 0.7 people died, if you assume the radiation release stayed in a big cloud and a person breathed it for some absurdly long time.  I remember doing this calculation in my nuclear engineering classes in college.  TMI is best analogized to this kind of accident:  you change the oil on your car and forget to put new oil back in.  Then you drive your car and the engine seizes up.  Car is ruined!  Won't ever run again!  Bummer!  Luckily, nobody hurt.

Fukushima is the result of a giant tidal wave of Biblical proportions.  The tidal wave wiped out infrastructure to keep the nuclear fuel cool.  Therefore, there was a meltdown, just like TMI, i.e., in the analogy, "shiat!  My car is shot!!"  Now, there are deaths from Fukushima, but those "deaths" are in the form of slightly elevated cancer rates among certain people living right next to the plant.  More people died from the evacuation of the public than those that will die from the Fukushima radiation.

Chernobyl.  Where to even farking start?  Russia farked this from the word jump, killed thousands of people, killed its soldiers trying to contain the mess, etc.  Bad all around.  No "car engine" analogy is even suitable.  Chernobyl had a fundamentally different (and inherently unstable) reactor design.  It is not physically possible for a U.S. reactor to explode like Chernobyl did.  (for the nuclear engineers:  U.S. reactors have a negative temperature and void coefficient of reactivity; for Chernobyl they were positive(!!) )

Want to talk about truly bad industry accidents?  Don't look at nuclear.  Check out the Bhopal India disaster:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bhopal_disaster


tl;dr:  TMI is like forgetting to put oil in your car, now engine is ruined; Fukushima is like driving your car off a cliff, two people dead; Chernobyl is like the 9-11 terrorist attacks.


I think you missed the point of the original post ;-)
 
2014-03-28 10:11:14 PM
He's become...the Amazing, Colossal President
 
2014-03-28 10:11:21 PM

ginandbacon: MFAWG: ginandbacon: Oh wow. Now I feel very very old.

Right? And I remember the hay the 'No Nukes' crowd made of it, and the movie. Good times!

Oh yeah. The principal of my school got himself arrested demonstrating (Quaker school, lots of protesting and hiding Nicaraguans.) My mother and little brother went off to Seabrook for a protest. (They didn't get arrested.) But my best friend's father was a nuclear engineer and he very patiently explained that nuclear is really pretty safe and much cleaner that fossil fuels so I stayed home.

That might have been my first act of teenage rebellion...


Ha! I was attending this bastion of Librul Groupthink in the middle Seventies, where my parents had sent us to matriculate for reasons that had nothing at all to do with forced busing  and had a similar experience as they were trying to license the Bonneville plant, with ONE key difference: The local chapter of the Sierra Club demanded equal time, and it was done as a debate before the assembled student body.

Long story short, the PG&E guys all showed up in shirt and tie, and the Sierra Club types donned their best Deadhead gear, which endeared them to the crowd to no end. So after we all went into discussion groups, and I pointed out that the Sierra Club was doing some pretty base pandering, and hadn't really done much in the way of being convincing in terms of arguments. My suggestion was to redo the thing, but switch the clothes,

That didn't go far, LOL.
 
2014-03-28 10:12:10 PM

KellyKellyKelly: Captain Steroid: KellyKellyKelly: I was two back then, and we (me, Mom, my baby brother, and Grandma) were shopping in the Colonial Park Mall when a woman came running towards us screaming "Three Mile Island's melting down!  We're all gonna die!"  She then grabbed me away from Mom, yelling "We have to save the children!" and tried to run off with me, but was tackled by my short but wide Grandma before she got too far.

The three of us ended up staying with my grandparents, who kept all doors and windows shut tightly, until we got word that everything was safe, while Dad went about business as usual in Camp Hill.

Jesus. O_O

*shrugs*  It's Central PA.  People are just insane there in general.

/living proof




Word.
 
2014-03-28 10:15:09 PM
Dear Mr. Cerebral Knievel

    I used the "obscure" in a sarcastic way knowing that many folks on the farks here would be quite familiar with the classic SNL skit and make funny comments; they did. So you are correct in in your astute assessment that it is indeed not obscure, thank you for pointing that out. Much appreciated. Keep up the good work.


NAR
 
2014-03-28 10:19:41 PM

The_Original_Roxtar: "remember"? no... i'm 32.

more interesting in PA is that town that's been on top of that burning coal mine for however many years.


No, it isn't. You'd leave in 5 minutes, tops, and kick yourself all the way home.
 
2014-03-28 10:22:19 PM

MFAWG: ginandbacon: MFAWG: ginandbacon: Oh wow. Now I feel very very old.

Right? And I remember the hay the 'No Nukes' crowd made of it, and the movie. Good times!

Oh yeah. The principal of my school got himself arrested demonstrating (Quaker school, lots of protesting and hiding Nicaraguans.) My mother and little brother went off to Seabrook for a protest. (They didn't get arrested.) But my best friend's father was a nuclear engineer and he very patiently explained that nuclear is really pretty safe and much cleaner that fossil fuels so I stayed home.

That might have been my first act of teenage rebellion...

Ha! I was attending this bastion of Librul Groupthink in the middle Seventies, where my parents had sent us to matriculate for reasons that had nothing at all to do with forced busing  and had a similar experience as they were trying to license the Bonneville plant, with ONE key difference: The local chapter of the Sierra Club demanded equal time, and it was done as a debate before the assembled student body.

Long story short, the PG&E guys all showed up in shirt and tie, and the Sierra Club types donned their best Deadhead gear, which endeared them to the crowd to no end. So after we all went into discussion groups, and I pointed out that the Sierra Club was doing some pretty base pandering, and hadn't really done much in the way of being convincing in terms of arguments. My suggestion was to redo the thing, but switch the clothes,

That didn't go far, LOL.


I followed your link... and judging by the link.. the message they put out as their goals, and taking into consideration your story and it personal results for you.. it sounds like the educators succeeded in their goal of fostering independent and critical thinking skills.

You should be more praise full of them. especially if you think that they were that important to the shaping of the person who you are now.
 
2014-03-28 10:23:03 PM
3 mIle island was a slip up.

Chernoybl was a fark up that lead to disaster.

Fukashima is a tragedy caused by mother's natures wrath and only the heroic efforts of many workers kept it from being much worse.
 
2014-03-28 10:23:05 PM
Oops, meant to quote this post:


Dufus: I was in college at the time and we had regular presentations by visiting "energy experts" extolling the benefits of nuclear power. They would explain how it was perfectly safe with no chance of accident due to the most perfect engineering ever. Every one of them was a government employee. After this fiasco they never showed up again.
 
2014-03-28 10:23:28 PM

New Age Redneck: Dear Mr. Cerebral Knievel

    I used the "obscure" in a sarcastic way knowing that many folks on the farks here would be quite familiar with the classic SNL skit and make funny comments; they did. So you are correct in in your astute assessment that it is indeed not obscure, thank you for pointing that out. Much appreciated. Keep up the good work.


NAR


no problem man... I'm here to help
 
2014-03-28 10:23:45 PM

gopher321: ZAZ: When Americans and their reactors go wrong, they make an expensive mess in a reactor building.

When Japanese and their reactors go wrong, they melt down and leak radiation.

When Russians and their reactors go wrong, they blow up and spew radiation.

Good lord, I really hope you are not equating Chernobyl and Fukushima with 3 Mile Island...


He's not equating them, he's comparing them.  Two big words, I know, but I'm sure you know both of them.
 
2014-03-28 10:24:27 PM

unamused: ZAZ: When Americans and their reactors go wrong, they make an expensive mess in a reactor building.

When Japanese and their reactors go wrong, they melt down and leak radiation.

When Russians and their reactors go wrong, they blow up and spew radiation.

All three of those put together didn't kill as many people as a decent coal mine collapse.


...or a single hydroelectic dam failure four years earlier that killed 171,000 people:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banqiao_Dam

...or the Sayano-Shushenskay dam failure in 2009 that killed 75 people:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sayano%E2%80%93Shushenskaya_Dam#2009_acc i dent

In fact, let's add up all the dam failures on this page:   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dam_failure#List_of_major_dam_failures

To date, Fukushima killed two people, who drowned in the basement of the plant while checking the conditions of systems after the earthquake before the tsunami hit.  In the same earthquake, seven other people were killed when the Fujinuma dam failed (see list of dam failures, above.).   So a single dam failure killed almost 4 times as many people as Fukushima.

..oh, and the Onagawa nuclear plant, which was closer to the earthquake epicenter, not only survived the earthquake and tsunami, it was used as an evacuation centre because it was the only structure in the area that maintained power after the disaster.   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Onagawa_Nuclear_Power_Plant#2011

Onagawa was built in the 80's to higher safety standards.  Fukushima was built in the 60's.  A new plant built today would be constructed to even higher standards than Onagawa.  But we don't want to build any new nuclear plants because they're considered dangerous.  What is dangerous is continuing to extend the life of 1960 reactors instead of building new plants.
 
2014-03-28 10:25:41 PM

The_Original_Roxtar: "remember"? no... i'm 32.

more interesting in PA is that town that's been on top of that burning coal mine for however many years.


Ah, yes. Centralia. A.K.A., the real-life version of Silent Hill. :/
 
2014-03-28 10:26:57 PM

Cerebral Knievel: MFAWG: ginandbacon: MFAWG: ginandbacon: Oh wow. Now I feel very very old.

Right? And I remember the hay the 'No Nukes' crowd made of it, and the movie. Good times!

Oh yeah. The principal of my school got himself arrested demonstrating (Quaker school, lots of protesting and hiding Nicaraguans.) My mother and little brother went off to Seabrook for a protest. (They didn't get arrested.) But my best friend's father was a nuclear engineer and he very patiently explained that nuclear is really pretty safe and much cleaner that fossil fuels so I stayed home.

That might have been my first act of teenage rebellion...

Ha! I was attending this bastion of Librul Groupthink in the middle Seventies, where my parents had sent us to matriculate for reasons that had nothing at all to do with forced busing  and had a similar experience as they were trying to license the Bonneville plant, with ONE key difference: The local chapter of the Sierra Club demanded equal time, and it was done as a debate before the assembled student body.

Long story short, the PG&E guys all showed up in shirt and tie, and the Sierra Club types donned their best Deadhead gear, which endeared them to the crowd to no end. So after we all went into discussion groups, and I pointed out that the Sierra Club was doing some pretty base pandering, and hadn't really done much in the way of being convincing in terms of arguments. My suggestion was to redo the thing, but switch the clothes,

That didn't go far, LOL.

I followed your link... and judging by the link.. the message they put out as their goals, and taking into consideration your story and it personal results for you.. it sounds like the educators succeeded in their goal of fostering independent and critical thinking skills.

You should be more praise full of them. especially if you think that they were that important to the shaping of the person who you are now.


Actually, I am. I learned to read with comprehension and think critically. But it really was (and is) a bastion of Librul Groupthink.

FWIW, the guy leading the discussion group was a former Marine who thought I made a very valid point, but it wasn't well received.

(Sam, I hope the novel turned out and you at least moved to filtered Camels. The ones I used to filch from your desk damn near killed me!)
 
2014-03-28 10:31:34 PM

lindalouwho: Gunboat: NIXON YOU DOLT!!!!!: gopher321: ZAZ: When Americans and their reactors go wrong, they make an expensive mess in a reactor building.

When Japanese and their reactors go wrong, they melt down and leak radiation.

When Russians and their reactors go wrong, they blow up and spew radiation.

Good lord, I really hope you are not equating Chernobyl and Fukushima with 3 Mile Island...


By all means, counsel, distinguish them for us.

/no, really. I'm curious.

The only thing that the three have in common is that they were nuclear accidents that had economic consequences.

Three Mile Island was purely an economic accident.  Nobody died.  I say that, but to be fair, statistically, 0.7 people died, if you assume the radiation release stayed in a big cloud and a person breathed it for some absurdly long time.  I remember doing this calculation in my nuclear engineering classes in college.  TMI is best analogized to this kind of accident:  you change the oil on your car and forget to put new oil back in.  Then you drive your car and the engine seizes up.  Car is ruined!  Won't ever run again!  Bummer!  Luckily, nobody hurt.

Fukushima is the result of a giant tidal wave of Biblical proportions.  The tidal wave wiped out infrastructure to keep the nuclear fuel cool.  Therefore, there was a meltdown, just like TMI, i.e., in the analogy, "shiat!  My car is shot!!"  Now, there are deaths from Fukushima, but those "deaths" are in the form of slightly elevated cancer rates among certain people living right next to the plant.  More people died from the evacuation of the public than those that will die from the Fukushima radiation.

Chernobyl.  Where to even farking start?  Russia farked this from the word jump, killed thousands of people, killed its soldiers trying to contain the mess, etc.  Bad all around.  No "car engine" analogy is even suitable.  Chernobyl had a fundamentally different (and inherently unstable) reactor design.  It is not physically possible for a U.S. reactor to explode like Chernobyl did.  (for the nuclear engineers:  U.S. reactors have a negative temperature and void coefficient of reactivity; for Chernobyl they were positive(!!) )

Want to talk about truly bad industry accidents?  Don't look at nuclear.  Check out the Bhopal India disaster:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bhopal_disaster


tl;dr:  TMI is like forgetting to put oil in your car, now engine is ruined; Fukushima is like driving your car off a cliff, two people dead; Chernobyl is like the 9-11 terrorist attacks.

I think you missed the point of the original post ;-)


What he said.
 
2014-03-28 10:40:01 PM

MFAWG: Cerebral Knievel: MFAWG: ginandbacon: MFAWG: ginandbacon: Oh wow. Now I feel very very old.

Right? And I remember the hay the 'No Nukes' crowd made of it, and the movie. Good times!

Oh yeah. The principal of my school got himself arrested demonstrating (Quaker school, lots of protesting and hiding Nicaraguans.) My mother and little brother went off to Seabrook for a protest. (They didn't get arrested.) But my best friend's father was a nuclear engineer and he very patiently explained that nuclear is really pretty safe and much cleaner that fossil fuels so I stayed home.

That might have been my first act of teenage rebellion...

Ha! I was attending this bastion of Librul Groupthink in the middle Seventies, where my parents had sent us to matriculate for reasons that had nothing at all to do with forced busing  and had a similar experience as they were trying to license the Bonneville plant, with ONE key difference: The local chapter of the Sierra Club demanded equal time, and it was done as a debate before the assembled student body.

Long story short, the PG&E guys all showed up in shirt and tie, and the Sierra Club types donned their best Deadhead gear, which endeared them to the crowd to no end. So after we all went into discussion groups, and I pointed out that the Sierra Club was doing some pretty base pandering, and hadn't really done much in the way of being convincing in terms of arguments. My suggestion was to redo the thing, but switch the clothes,

That didn't go far, LOL.

I followed your link... and judging by the link.. the message they put out as their goals, and taking into consideration your story and it personal results for you.. it sounds like the educators succeeded in their goal of fostering independent and critical thinking skills.

You should be more praise full of them. especially if you think that they were that important to the shaping of the person who you are now.

Actually, I am. I learned to read with comprehension and think criticall ...


I know and am sure you are.. ;) I've seen you posts in the past,and I like to think that no one on fark is generally mean.. we all do enjoy each others company on some level, but we are not above giving anyone shiat, or just general ribbing unless yer just a straight up contarian asshole.. and that asshole will soon be routed out.

in short... we are all at that "farting in front of each other" point in our relationship
 
2014-03-28 10:40:15 PM
gopher321 [TotalFark]

Good lord, I really hope you are not equating Chernobyl and Fukushima with 3 Mile Island...
Why not? Liberals have spent decades doing just that in order to block power plants.
 
2014-03-28 10:41:27 PM
The Saturday Night live episode the next Saturday night had one of the funniest sketches.  I don't think I have seen it since them but it had Al Franken and Tom Davis and  a nuclear mutated giant Jimmy Carter.
 
2014-03-28 10:44:25 PM

New Age Redneck: Pepsi syndrome?

/how big is the president?
//obscure?


Ah, cola spilled on the control panel.

/I hear that's inaccurate
//they spilled 7up
///the un-cola
 
2014-03-28 10:45:02 PM

JoieD'Zen: My exhusband was there; he died of lung cancer a few years ago; coincidence I'm sure.


Yes, it was. There is no evidence, zero, that TMI caused even so much as a single case of cancer. TMI ALert, the local alarmist kooks, have been making claims now for 30 years but have never substantiated anything. I'll bet he smoked, though. Lung cancer is almost exclusively a smoker's disease.

/Lived in central PA virtually my whole life
//Was 3 when TMI happened
 
2014-03-28 11:01:37 PM

rbuzby: The Saturday Night live episode the next Saturday night had one of the funniest sketches.  I don't think I have seen it since them but it had Al Franken and Tom Davis and  a nuclear mutated giant Jimmy Carter.


Jimmy Carter was in training to become the Engineering Officer (head nuke) on the USS Seawolf (SSN-575) before being pulled out of the program due to family emergencies.
 
2014-03-28 11:08:42 PM
35 years ago? Damn, I was a senior in college. Time flies, doesn't it?
 
2014-03-28 11:12:20 PM
What I remember were all the Jane Fonda wannabes preventing the restart of the undamaged unit at TMI for over 5 yrs. with nuisance law suits until a Federal Judge told them to can it.  And, then, the estimated cost to the power utility of that 5 yr. hiatus (how much they'd have made had the reactor been generating power) being added to the summaries of the `outrageous price of nuclear power' by those with an ax to grind (surprisingly, or not, this included the passive renewable lobby as well as the coal lobby - strange bedfellows - they're still trying).

And now we are going on a gas binge.  Well, anyone who likes can do a quick look-up of how many fatalities can be attributed to radiological `incidents' that have occurred from the inception of the nuclear navy and U.S. commercial nuclear power industry, until the present day.
I'll just leave you with the fatalities attributable to just the gas distribution network (not all the pipelines), from 1994-2013 (expect many more):
http://primis.phmsa.dot.gov/comm/reports/safety/AllPSI.html?nocache= 26 46#_ngdistrib
 
2014-03-28 11:15:13 PM
Serious question...... I keep hearing about how safe the modern reactors are but no-one ever mentions the waste product. How safe is the nuclear waste from a modern reactor?
 
2014-03-28 11:21:33 PM

ZAZ: When Americans and their reactors go wrong, they make an expensive mess in a reactor building.

When Japanese and their reactors go wrong, they melt down and leak radiation.

When Russians and their reactors go wrong, they blow up and spew radiation.


This.
 
2014-03-28 11:31:39 PM
I remember this all too well since I was 15 when it happened. It was just shortly after the release of the movie "The China Syndrome", which of course looked prescient. I was out of high school by the time of Bhopal and in my 20s by Chernobyl.

Gawd I feel so old now.
 
2014-03-28 11:47:22 PM
Lived about 10 miles from there when it happened.  We evacuated... Good times.  Yes.
 
2014-03-28 11:49:42 PM

kidakita: Serious question...... I keep hearing about how safe the modern reactors are but no-one ever mentions the waste product. How safe is the nuclear waste from a modern reactor?



It's toxic, nasty stuff that will kill kill kill you, if you're exposed to it.  Same, though, is true for virtually every waste product of every industry -- sulfuric acid from coal, wastes from steel plants, etc.
  Burying the waste in some deep hole in Nevada is the optimal engineering solution.  There it will be tucked away and will harm nobody.
 
2014-03-28 11:54:40 PM

kidakita: Serious question...... I keep hearing about how safe the modern reactors are but no-one ever mentions the waste product. How safe is the nuclear waste from a modern reactor?


Nasty farking stuff. If I was a terrorist...  Anyway, consider all of the high level waste being cooled/casked up at current reactor sites as unreprocessed fuel - current model reactors only burn about 2-3% of what is fed into them.  It's a lot like burning the bark off of a tree and throwing away the tree - in this case the tree is highly radioactive.  So, either use the technology to burn it completely up, or stash it in some mountain (that didn't work out, did it?)  One of the main reasons reprocessing hasn't occurred is owing to the money to be made fabricating new fuel by the current industry.  I'm betting the French are feeling pretty good about their reactor fleet and reprocessing they do, about now.  Nowhere near to being exposed to the same degree as Germany is to Putin's gassy affections.

 Charles Till and & Co., out at Argonne West (Idaho National Lab) spent 20 billion taxpayer dollars not only perfecting a passively safe reactor (GE has a commercial variant PRISM) & worked out a method of vitrifying the resulting waste, which would have a dangerous half-life of 300 yrs rather than thousands.  The ITR project had its funding cut two years before completion.  However, they demonstrated the reactor's ability to simply shut down on its own if electricity/cooling was lost, two months before Chernobyl (didn't get much press).  Reason it shuts down is owing to the fuel's expansion if it rises beyond operating temps - loses too many thermal neutrons from core and fission ceases - no human intervention required.
 
2014-03-28 11:57:36 PM

kidakita: Serious question...... I keep hearing about how safe the modern reactors are but no-one ever mentions the waste product. How safe is the nuclear waste from a modern reactor?


Its not all that dangerous. For some reason the US wants to store it. Every other nuclear country recycles it.
 
2014-03-29 12:11:48 AM

King Something:


Yup.
I still remember "China Sindome" for some reason.


My biggest issue with nuclear energy is that the still haven't figured what to do and how to handle the radioactive waste.
 
2014-03-29 12:21:04 AM

debug: I was 7 and remember it. Some neighborhood families evacuated, but we didn't. I still see it almost daily when I cross the river and my employer actually gives out potassium tabs (I think that's what they are anyway) when you get hired. Fun stuff.


I think anyone working or living within a certain radius of that particular plant gets those issued by the TMI operators as a part of their general safety plan. I used to live just inside the ten mile mark (outside of Grantville with a Hummelstown mailing address) and we had the 1% clean up the mess tax on our power bill but not the pills although I think that we could have requested them free of charge if we wanted to. It would have been pointless though because any radioactive gasses would have be so diluted as to be unmeasurable if it happened again. Now if I lived in Highspire that might have been a different story.
 
2014-03-29 12:26:33 AM

Gunboat: Chernobyl. Where to even farking start? Russia farked this from the word jump, killed thousands of people, killed its soldiers trying to contain the mess, etc. Bad all around. No "car engine" analogy is even suitable. Chernobyl had a fundamentally different (and inherently unstable) reactor design. It is not physically possible for a U.S. reactor to explode like Chernobyl did. (for the nuclear engineers: U.S. reactors have a negative temperature and void coefficient of reactivity; for Chernobyl they were positive(!!) )


Early march was the 3rd anniversary of the Tokhu earthquake which somehow resulted in me getting routed through Wikipedia and ending up with the second INSEG report on Chernobyl on my pdf reader... Utterly, staggeringly unbelievable. A few choice bits:

* The system used to calculate the core's reactivity took fully 10 minutes to gather data and update itself
* The soviets KNEW of the problem with the control rods' graphite tip. And did nothing.
* The RBMK, with a fresh fuel load, has negative void and power coefficients... They never bothered calculating them for when it's in steady state.
* They had been systematically removing neutron absorbers in order to increase fuel burnup. They never re-calculated the effect this had on the void/power coefficients either
* After the low-power phase went pear shaped (power output collapsed to zero), they tried to continue the experiment anyway.

I'm not normally one for yelling expletives at computer screens but that night I was.

Crazy Lee: Charles Till and & Co., out at Argonne West (Idaho National Lab) spent 20 billion taxpayer dollars not only perfecting a passively safe reactor (GE has a commercial variant PRISM) & worked out a method of vitrifying the resulting waste, which would have a dangerous half-life of 300 yrs rather than thousands.


Are you talking about the liquid-fuelled reactor design that got insta-shiatcanned when the military found out you can't use it to make nuclear bombs? (At the same time we sanctimoniously lecture other nations about... not using reactors to facilitate bombs)
 
2014-03-29 12:26:48 AM

Resident Muslim: My biggest issue with nuclear energy is that the still haven't figured what to do and how to handle the radioactive waste.


Actually we have but the NIMBY's won't let them transport or store it there. There's always the 1940's and 50's style solution and just dump it into the deep ocean off of the continental shelf. See: Farallon Islands.
 
2014-03-29 12:30:49 AM

erik-k: Are you talking about the liquid-fuelled reactor design that got insta-shiatcanned when the military found out you can't use it to make nuclear bombs? (At the same time we sanctimoniously lecture other nations about... not using reactors to facilitate bombs)


Our breeder reactors were Shiatcanned in the 70's. Unless you mean reactors that can produce tritium gas (half life of 7 years or so). We have enough PU to last pretty much forever so we don't need breeders anymore.
 
2014-03-29 12:41:15 AM

theorellior: Before anyone brands me an emerald-green crunchy environazi, let me just state that nuclear power would be a perfectly good source of concentrated energy, except we went with the political payoff greasy palms form of building land-based nuke plants instead of the failsafe, safety-first form you'll find on nuclear carriers and submarines.


PWR will always be a little bit safer than BWR just because they are more contained but in general the safety on naval reactors comes from training, training and more training followed by a murderous inspection cycle along with a very strict set of procedures and meticulous construction standards (but that's true for just about every inch of a submarine anyway). The biggest factor though is that all of the reactors are pretty much the same no matter what ship it's on. Every valve and gauge is in the exact same spot on every boat. Land based reactors have to deal with various terrain and seismic issues so that essentially means that each one is a custom set up which leads to very different piping, wiring and so on which makes it harder and\or more expensive to train people to operate it or to simulate the plant in any effective manner without building a simulator for every individual plant.
 
2014-03-29 12:49:20 AM
Remember the thousands who have died in refinery fires, wars to ensure access to Middle Eastern oil over the past 35 years? Good times, good times.
 
2014-03-29 12:55:11 AM

Radioactive Ass: erik-k: Are you talking about the liquid-fuelled reactor design that got insta-shiatcanned when the military found out you can't use it to make nuclear bombs? (At the same time we sanctimoniously lecture other nations about... not using reactors to facilitate bombs)

Our breeder reactors were Shiatcanned in the 70's. Unless you mean reactors that can produce tritium gas (half life of 7 years or so). We have enough PU to last pretty much forever so we don't need breeders anymore.


Oddly, precisely due to the cessation of building more nuclear weapons with the associated nuclear materials refining, deep space exploration is in a pinch because we do not have enough Pu-238 to last forever. The US has been buying it off Russia but they're running out too and every gram of it available to science is spoken for - there's enough left for (IIRC) 2 or 3 more deep space missions, then it's no longer possible to launch beyond-mars probes because we'll have nothing to power them.
 
2014-03-29 01:02:51 AM

erik-k: Gunboat: Chernobyl. Where to even farking start? Russia farked this from the word jump, killed thousands of people, killed its soldiers trying to contain the mess, etc. Bad all around. No "car engine" analogy is even suitable. Chernobyl had a fundamentally different (and inherently unstable) reactor design. It is not physically possible for a U.S. reactor to explode like Chernobyl did. (for the nuclear engineers: U.S. reactors have a negative temperature and void coefficient of reactivity; for Chernobyl they were positive(!!) )

Early march was the 3rd anniversary of the Tokhu earthquake which somehow resulted in me getting routed through Wikipedia and ending up with the second INSEG report on Chernobyl on my pdf reader...

Crazy Lee: Charles Till and & Co., out at Argonne West (Idaho National Lab) spent 20 billion taxpayer dollars not only perfecting a passively safe reactor (GE has a commercial variant PRISM) & worked out a method of vitrifying the resulting waste, which would have a dangerous half-life of 300 yrs rather than thousands.

Are you talking about the liquid-fuelled reactor design that got insta-shiatcanned when the military found out you can't use it to make nuclear bombs? (At th ...


Integral Fast Reactor:  Till made the point that separating out weapons grade plutonium would be a futile effort (however, certain groups scream about proliferation no matter what.  The ITR was killed by Clinton, through his butt boy in the Senate, Kerry.  Not only to appease the greens but, more importantly, to get ahead of Newt & the Contract With America rabble just then gaining steam on its way to the House (`see how much I cut', says Bill).

If you are interested, the IAEA released their report on the "remarkably undamaged: Onagawa Facility (Tohoku power Co. three BW reactors). Onagawa was the Nuclear Facility closest to the epicenter of the quake.  After the quake and tsunami the employee gym and other buildings onsite were used to house the refugees that had lost their homes.  What is most interesting is the second report out of USC on the differences between Tepco (Fukishima - they also nearly lost their second facility seven miles South of the `mess') and Tohoku Power:  Tohoku was safety driven from the top - from the siting of the facility on.  They quote one of the upper managers of Tohoku power as saying: "If you're not thinking about tsunamis in Tohoku [prefecture], what are you thinking about?"

http://www.iaea.org/newscenter/focus/actionplan/reports/onagawa0413. pd f
http://www-bcf.usc.edu/~meshkati/Onagawa%20NPS-%20Final%2003-10-13.p df
 
2014-03-29 01:21:07 AM
The only good nuclear plant is a dismantled nuclear plant:
31.media.tumblr.com
 
2014-03-29 01:37:14 AM

MFAWG: Cerebral Knievel: MFAWG: ginandbacon: MFAWG: ginandbacon: Oh wow. Now I feel very very old.

Right? And I remember the hay the 'No Nukes' crowd made of it, and the movie. Good times!

Oh yeah. The principal of my school got himself arrested demonstrating (Quaker school, lots of protesting and hiding Nicaraguans.) My mother and little brother went off to Seabrook for a protest. (They didn't get arrested.) But my best friend's father was a nuclear engineer and he very patiently explained that nuclear is really pretty safe and much cleaner that fossil fuels so I stayed home.

That might have been my first act of teenage rebellion...

Ha! I was attending this bastion of Librul Groupthink in the middle Seventies, where my parents had sent us to matriculate for reasons that had nothing at all to do with forced busing  and had a similar experience as they were trying to license the Bonneville plant, with ONE key difference: The local chapter of the Sierra Club demanded equal time, and it was done as a debate before the assembled student body.

Long story short, the PG&E guys all showed up in shirt and tie, and the Sierra Club types donned their best Deadhead gear, which endeared them to the crowd to no end. So after we all went into discussion groups, and I pointed out that the Sierra Club was doing some pretty base pandering, and hadn't really done much in the way of being convincing in terms of arguments. My suggestion was to redo the thing, but switch the clothes,

That didn't go far, LOL.

I followed your link... and judging by the link.. the message they put out as their goals, and taking into consideration your story and it personal results for you.. it sounds like the educators succeeded in their goal of fostering independent and critical thinking skills.

You should be more praise full of them. especially if you think that they were that important to the shaping of the person who you are now.

Actually, I am. I learned to read with comprehension and think criticall ...


That's funny. This is my alma mater. It was probably similar to yours except with Meeting for Worship and no cafeteria or sports (well we had PE but it was fairly undemanding because competition isn't really a Quaker value.) When I was there it was mostly seriously old money WASPS who owned multiple houses and horses and had a fierce commitment to social justice.

Like you, I really learned reading comprehension and critical thinking and was exposed to a lot of values I still hold today. My math and science skills were probably remedial at best and whooee could I not spell or use punctuation correctly.

We weren't even graded. Everything was pass/fail and we got "Progress Reports" at the end of the year which generally read like this: "ginandbacon is very smart and curious but she is not working to her full potential." Boy howdy was high school a shock. I didn't even know what a GPA was.

Ah the 70s. Those were interesting times...
 
2014-03-29 01:40:18 AM

New Age Redneck: Pepsi syndrome?

/how big is the president?
//obscure?


Does it have to be Pepsi or can it be any cola?
 
2014-03-29 01:48:17 AM
 
2014-03-29 01:48:20 AM
Curiously, Japan's labor ministry recently and quietly doubled the estimated exposure of some of the initial workers at the Fukushima plant after the disaster:

http://ajw.asahi.com/article/0311disaster/fukushima/AJ201403260046
 
2014-03-29 01:49:59 AM

MrSteve007: The only good nuclear plant is a dismantled nuclear plant:
[31.media.tumblr.com image 500x404]


Well, when you demonstrate a method to generate Carbon Neutral terawattage 24/7, that utilizes existing distribution infrastructure - then start dismantling.
 
2014-03-29 03:19:10 AM

Radioactive Ass: Resident Muslim: My biggest issue with nuclear energy is that the still haven't figured what to do and how to handle the radioactive waste.

Actually we have but the NIMBY's won't let them transport or store it there. There's always the 1940's and 50's style solution and just dump it into the deep ocean off of the continental shelf. See: Farallon Islands.


1) very appropriate handle.
2) when it comes to radioactive waste, I think everyone would be a NIMBY
 
2014-03-29 04:09:58 AM

NIXON YOU DOLT!!!!!: gopher321: ZAZ: When Americans and their reactors go wrong, they make an expensive mess in a reactor building.

When Japanese and their reactors go wrong, they melt down and leak radiation.

When Russians and their reactors go wrong, they blow up and spew radiation.

Good lord, I really hope you are not equating Chernobyl and Fukushima with 3 Mile Island...

By all means, counsel, distinguish them for us.

/no, really. I'm curious.


There is actually a scale for such things:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Nuclear_Event_Scale

People can quibble with the specifics of the scale, or where certain events should be placed on the scale, but it's a pretty good starting point.

/Happy fun boredom activity: read the IAEA "Radiological Accidents" reports. Some chilling stuff.
 
2014-03-29 07:07:10 AM
Just 40-50 miles or so up the road from me. The Press was full of it around here but I was unconcerned, I knew I was Upwind of the place. The weather around here goes the other way all the time. Pretty much every storm drifts straight up the I-95 line, DC - Baltimore - Philly. The exceptions are the fronts that blow through heading directly E or SE to the shore. Even if Calvert Cliffs goes up, well the prevailing weather patterns should take anything from there in those directions, away from me.
 
2014-03-29 07:12:29 AM

KellyKellyKelly: I was two back then, and we (me, Mom, my baby brother, and Grandma) were shopping in the Colonial Park Mall when a woman came running towards us screaming "Three Mile Island's melting down!  We're all gonna die!"  She then grabbed me away from Mom, yelling "We have to save the children!" and tried to run off with me, but was tackled by my short but wide Grandma before she got too far.

The three of us ended up staying with my grandparents, who kept all doors and windows shut tightly, until we got word that everything was safe, while Dad went about business as usual in Camp Hill.


Ah Colonial Park Mall. What a great hangout spot. There used to be a great hobby store there. I think it was called Allied Hobbies.
 
2014-03-29 08:49:11 AM
*shrugs* say what you will, the containment system worked
 
2014-03-29 09:14:29 AM

MyMindIsGoingDave: KellyKellyKelly: I was two back then, and we (me, Mom, my baby brother, and Grandma) were shopping in the Colonial Park Mall when a woman came running towards us screaming "Three Mile Island's melting down!  We're all gonna die!"  She then grabbed me away from Mom, yelling "We have to save the children!" and tried to run off with me, but was tackled by my short but wide Grandma before she got too far.

The three of us ended up staying with my grandparents, who kept all doors and windows shut tightly, until we got word that everything was safe, while Dad went about business as usual in Camp Hill.

Ah Colonial Park Mall. What a great hangout spot. There used to be a great hobby store there. I think it was called Allied Hobbies.



I don't think thats been around for some time, sadly. I could be thinking of something else though.
 
2014-03-29 09:45:01 AM
BizzareMan

Does it have to be Pepsi or can it be any cola?

Brian: But, you spilled a Coke.

Matt: It doesn't matter. Any cola does it.

Carl: Any cola? What about RC Cola?

Matt: Yeah, RC does it.

Brian: Canada Dry?

Matt: Sure.

Carl: 7-up?

Matt: It's harmless. It's an un-cola. [ smacks his hands to his forehead ] Oh, wow! I could have had a V8!
 
2014-03-29 12:47:15 PM

New Age Redneck: BizzareMan

Does it have to be Pepsi or can it be any cola?

Brian: But, you spilled a Coke.

Matt: It doesn't matter. Any cola does it.

Carl: Any cola? What about RC Cola?

Matt: Yeah, RC does it.

Brian: Canada Dry?

Matt: Sure.

Carl: 7-up?

Matt: It's harmless. It's an un-cola. [ smacks his hands to his forehead ] Oh, wow! I could have had a V8!


What I find incredible is I hadn't seen that sketch since it originally aired or maybe in re-runs that season, and I can't quote it.  But as soon as I saw the initial reference, I knew exactly what it was talking about.

That is a sign of good television.
 
2014-03-29 12:59:45 PM
But at least now we know the *real* cause of 3-Mile Island.

cdn.filmschoolrejects.com
 
2014-03-29 01:12:27 PM

JoieD'Zen: My exhusband was there; he died of lung cancer a few years ago; coincidence I'm sure.


Others beat me to it: Was he a smoker? Also, what was the radon level in the houses he has lived in?
 
2014-03-29 01:48:43 PM

SilentStrider: MyMindIsGoingDave: KellyKellyKelly: I was two back then, and we (me, Mom, my baby brother, and Grandma) were shopping in the Colonial Park Mall when a woman came running towards us screaming "Three Mile Island's melting down!  We're all gonna die!"  She then grabbed me away from Mom, yelling "We have to save the children!" and tried to run off with me, but was tackled by my short but wide Grandma before she got too far.

The three of us ended up staying with my grandparents, who kept all doors and windows shut tightly, until we got word that everything was safe, while Dad went about business as usual in Camp Hill.

Ah Colonial Park Mall. What a great hangout spot. There used to be a great hobby store there. I think it was called Allied Hobbies.


I don't think thats been around for some time, sadly. I could be thinking of something else though.


No more Allied Hobbies there; I think the nearest one these days is in the Philly area.

I remember when the floor of the mall was completely unlevel.  It was a sad day when they installed tiling and steps.
 
2014-03-29 03:32:47 PM

Dufus: I was in college at the time and we had regular presentations by visiting "energy experts" extolling the benefits of nuclear power. They would explain how it was perfectly safe with no chance of accident due to the most perfect engineering ever. Every one of them was a government employee.

After this fiasco they never showed up again.


Yeah, this is the issue I have with nuclear power. Great, it works 99% of the time...aaaand then the other 1% you destroy large chunks of land and give everyone in the nearby area cancer. That's not actually a good solution.
 
2014-03-29 04:44:46 PM
the PBS crew had unprecedented access to plant operators who were on the controls at the time of the accident and plant engineers - people who were there, people who figured out what to do and how to recover from the accident - and they used Mike Gray for all the technical explanations of what happened.  i gave a tour of TMI to some production personnel. we all got the "we want to tell your story" line from them.  and they went and put together yet another scare-mongering sensationalist story.  so, thanks to that PBS film, nobody will ever talk to an interviewer again.  i guess that was the purpose.  they even resurrected Roger Mattson's long-discredited sky-is-falling hydrogen bubble panic. radioactive geysers?  oh, please.  even the worst of the worst case scenarii don't get there.  but realism doesn't pull in the pledge dollars, does it?
 
2014-03-29 08:44:10 PM
I was so proud and happy to visit there that I just glowed.
 
2014-03-29 10:59:06 PM

KellyKellyKelly: SilentStrider: MyMindIsGoingDave: KellyKellyKelly: I was two back then, and we (me, Mom, my baby brother, and Grandma) were shopping in the Colonial Park Mall when a woman came running towards us screaming "Three Mile Island's melting down!  We're all gonna die!"  She then grabbed me away from Mom, yelling "We have to save the children!" and tried to run off with me, but was tackled by my short but wide Grandma before she got too far.

The three of us ended up staying with my grandparents, who kept all doors and windows shut tightly, until we got word that everything was safe, while Dad went about business as usual in Camp Hill.

Ah Colonial Park Mall. What a great hangout spot. There used to be a great hobby store there. I think it was called Allied Hobbies.


I don't think thats been around for some time, sadly. I could be thinking of something else though.

No more Allied Hobbies there; I think the nearest one these days is in the Philly area.

I remember when the floor of the mall was completely unlevel.  It was a sad day when they installed tiling and steps.


I don't know how many times I tripped over the carpeted floor when I was a kid.
 
2014-03-30 09:03:12 AM

Resident Muslim: Radioactive Ass: Resident Muslim: My biggest issue with nuclear energy is that the still haven't figured what to do and how to handle the radioactive waste.

Actually we have but the NIMBY's won't let them transport or store it there. There's always the 1940's and 50's style solution and just dump it into the deep ocean off of the continental shelf. See: Farallon Islands.

1) very appropriate handle.
2) when it comes to radioactive waste, I think everyone would be a NIMBY


Strangely enough I actually HAVE radioactive waste in my backyard. Damned clothesline pole my father welded together from old oilfield drill pipe. The local scrap yard won't take it because it was contaminated by NORM during its use. It isn't hot enough to cause damage just picking it up to move, but bad enough I wouldn't want to sleep with it for a week.

You should have seen the guy's face at the scrap yard when his detector started to sound like a machine gun.

I always wondered why those wasps that made nests in that pipe grew so dang big.
 
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