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(Ars Technica)   Thanks to online piracy, the MPAA continues to lose money at an alarming rate. Just kidding, they had a record year of profits. Again   (arstechnica.com) divider line 60
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2014-03-28 11:41:22 AM
Oh, those poor millionaires...
 
2014-03-28 11:50:41 AM
BRB, downloading a car.
 
2014-03-28 12:03:09 PM
i2.kym-cdn.com
 
2014-03-28 12:03:15 PM
If someone downloads a movie, and then he tells 10 people to watch the movie, and half pay to see the movie, and then they tell 10 people, half who pay to see the movie, then you've had one illegal download turn into 55 paying customers!
 
2014-03-28 12:03:57 PM

van1ty: If someone downloads a movie, and then he tells 10 people to watch the movie, and half pay to see the movie, and then they tell 10 people, half who pay to see the movie, then you've had one illegal download turn into 55 paying customers!


I can't do math
 
2014-03-28 12:07:04 PM
Music industry is down to 60% 2002 revenue (source wikipedia), but I'm sure that's because everyone instead goes to the gigs and buys t-shirts these days.

As for the Movie industry - piracy has meant that they've moved pretty much to a "blockbuster or bust" model. This is fine while the blockbusters keep making money (which they are now) - but a string of failures would fark things up (which is why we'll see more and more sequels and less and less new stuff because as Disney has figured out, pumping out superhero and Star Wars films for the next few decades is a more reliable revenue generator than taking big chances on untested content.
 
2014-03-28 12:24:17 PM

van1ty: If someone downloads a movie, and then he tells 10 people to watch the movie, and half pay to see the movie, and then they tell 10 people, half who pay to see the movie, then you've had one illegal download turn into 55 paying customers!


That's not at all how it works.  That one downloader single handedly costs the entire movie industry over 1 Billion dollars with every viewing of their pirated material.
 
2014-03-28 12:30:59 PM
But they would've had a vazkllion more in profits, so it's still theft.
 
2014-03-28 12:32:03 PM
So basically, piraters, if I understand things correctly, your cunning plan is to make sure that the practice of piracy doesn't become mainstream and widespread. If everyone pirated all the time, the media companies would most certainly lose money, thus nullifying your argument that what you do doesn't affect their profits. So as long as only a small percentage of the public pirates, you're golden. Logically then, you cannot advocate that everyone engage in this practice, and you must ensure that the pirating community remains a small elite. Am I wrong?
 
2014-03-28 12:41:05 PM

B.L.Z. Bub: If everyone pirated all the time, the media companies would most certainly lose money, thus nullifying your argument that what you do doesn't affect their profits.


The media companies would most certainly lose money, and then perhaps take a look at their business model and adjust it to meet ever changing demands and needs of the end consumer.

Many people here on Fark and other forums have categorically stated that if the media companies were to offer a digital download alternative to going to a movie theater, that they would pay a reasonable amount to have that ability. I am included in that segment of the population.

I pirate because of the ease and the desire to consume media in my chosen format, rather than the format that the media company has chosen for me. The fact that I cannot easily get out to see a first run movie means that I usually wait until the BRRip to hit my torrent site so I can download it.

We also pirate to get around oppressive DRM schemes and be able to view the media we consume in the manner in which we see fit. Even this may become an issue with digital downloads, in that you'll only have a license to view the material, perhaps even only a set number of times. It could be removed from your account at any time and you would have no recourse. With piracy, I have a copy of the media I am consuming for as long as I want to keep it on the external hard drive.
 
2014-03-28 12:41:51 PM

narkor: Music industry is down to 60% 2002 revenue (source wikipedia), but I'm sure that's because everyone instead goes to the gigs and buys t-shirts these days.


It has nothing to do with services like Play, Xbox music, Pandora, Rhapsody, Spotify, etc?  I buy maybe 1 song a month and will pick off an album or 2 when they go for $3.99 on Play but way gone is the time of large CD sales or Album sales.  I perfer paying nothing for Xbox music and listen to an ad every few songs than to buy a mp3 track.

I used to pirate a lot of music back in the day.  Now it's easier to just use a streaming service or youtube.
 
2014-03-28 12:50:05 PM

narkor: Music industry is down to 60% 2002 revenue (source wikipedia), but I'm sure that's because everyone instead goes to the gigs and buys t-shirts these days.

As for the Movie industry - piracy has meant that they've moved pretty much to a "blockbuster or bust" model. This is fine while the blockbusters keep making money (which they are now) - but a string of failures would fark things up (which is why we'll see more and more sequels and less and less new stuff because as Disney has figured out, pumping out superhero and Star Wars films for the next few decades is a more reliable revenue generator than taking big chances on untested content.


The music industry is down because, in their haste to stop piracy, they blew up the bundling model.  Prior to 2000 or so, the average person purchased four albums per year and album sales made up 90% of the music industry's annual revenue.  With the advent and widespread acceptance of iTunes, people stopped buying albums and started buying singles.  The average person now buys one album per year and multiple singles, but the single sales don't make up for the lost album sales.  I wish I had the great article that laid this all out, but this graph lays it out pretty well.

www.digital-digest.com

As for movies, if you look at the chart they give, domestic revenues have been staying stable.  They're making money in the international market.  Part of that is the blockbuster model, since blockbusters generally work better overseas.  They've also been shrinking the release window for new films, which I think helps keep piracy down.
 
2014-03-28 01:01:49 PM

rugman11: They've also been shrinking the release window for new films, which I think helps keep piracy down.


I never understood that.  Why do they wait 6 months for them to release the blu ray.  I know the cheap movies usually get the movies 3 months after the first run theaters maybe move that time frame up also.
 
2014-03-28 01:08:24 PM
I watch movies at home because all the theaters near me have turned into daycare centers.
 
2014-03-28 01:14:45 PM
When virtual reality eventually becomes iniquitous for watching movies, going to physical theaters will become obsolete.
I would think there will be options in an online VR theater such as including and/or muting the general public, invites only, by yourself, change theater templates, etc. etc.

I give it "6 more years".
/oculus rift, derp-derp-Faaacebooook!!1!
 
2014-03-28 01:18:34 PM

Bslim: Oh, those poor millionaires...


Yeah, but they would be millionaires if it wasn't for piracy!  All those bankers are laughing at them.
 
2014-03-28 01:30:43 PM

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: I watch movies at home because all the theaters near me have turned into daycare centers.


That.  I've only seen maybe 3 movies in the theater since I went to see Jurassic Park 2 as a kid -- The seating was way over capacity with lots of people standing to watch it, numerous crying babies, one baby that threw up so much that it managed to reach my feet from 8 rows back and stunk of rotten milk, and over priced snacks.  The last movie I saw in theater was The Ice Harvest and it was full of talkers and phone calls.

When the choices for movies are: 1) theaters where the experience can vary; 2) wait for it to be released in a restricted format (dvd/bluray/stream); 3) wait for the drm free pirated version, I usually go with 2 then 3, but only when/because my PC doesn't have a blu ray drive

I also might pirate if I'm testing out a game to see if my PC will handle it -- no point on spending good money on a game that'll run between 3 an 12 fps on low.  If it runs good enough I'll buy, if not I delete.  For me, game piracy isn't acceptable unless it's just HW testing (demos aren't always the same as the final product), the company drops support for a game, the next console has been out for 2+ years, it just can't be found in legit places, or is more than 5 years old -- if it hasn't made $$$ in 5 years, it probably won't.

/Hasn't pirated in years except to test Skyrim
//It didn't like my old graphics card, but my R7 260x should be good enough
///Waiting for it to be deeply discounted during the Steam Summer sale cause I'm broke
 
2014-03-28 01:35:05 PM
Jack Valenti was like the prince of darkness.  I've never seen a guy that was able to parley people's baseless fears into so much money and influence.

Maybe Roy Cohn, but he was more open about it.
 
2014-03-28 01:40:14 PM
Ever since I cancelled my Netflix back in 2011, I have seen maybe 2 movies in the theater and have no interest in illegal downloading, I just don't watch movies anymore. Mostly because they all suck. Video games, TV shows, and anime are much more entertaining.
 
2014-03-28 01:49:15 PM

B.L.Z. Bub: So basically, piraters, if I understand things correctly, your cunning plan is to make sure that the practice of piracy doesn't become mainstream and widespread. If everyone pirated all the time, the media companies would most certainly lose money, thus nullifying your argument that what you do doesn't affect their profits. So as long as only a small percentage of the public pirates, you're golden. Logically then, you cannot advocate that everyone engage in this practice, and you must ensure that the pirating community remains a small elite. Am I wrong?


Yep.
 
2014-03-28 02:10:39 PM

The_Six_Fingered_Man: The media companies would most certainly lose money, and then perhaps take a look at their business model and adjust it to meet ever changing demands and needs of the end consumer.Many people here on Fark and other forums have categorically stated that if the media companies were to offer a digital download alternative to going to a movie theater, that they would pay a reasonable amount to have that ability. I am included in that segment of the population.I pirate because of the ease and the desire to consume media in my chosen format, rather than the format that the media company has chosen for me. The fact that I cannot easily get out to see a first run movie means that I usually wait until the BRRip to hit my torrent site so I can download it.We also pirate to get around oppressive DRM schemes and be able to view the media we consume in the manner in which we see fit. Even this may become an issue with digital downloads, in that you'll only have a license to view the material, perhaps even only a set number of times. It could be removed from your account at any time and you would have no recourse. With piracy, I have a copy of the media I am consuming for as long as I want to keep it on the external hard drive.


If I were on your jury, I'd buy that.
 
2014-03-28 02:33:38 PM

van1ty: If someone downloads a movie, and then he tells 10 people to watch the movie, and half pay to see the movie, and then they tell 10 people, half who pay to see the movie, then you've had one illegal download turn into 55 paying customers!


That is only part of the story. 98% of those who downloads a movie illegally would not watch it, if they had to pay for it. Meaning, they only lose very little amount of money through piracy. The free ad effect (as you described) more than likely overcomes that 2% revenue lost (no study done, as far as I know, but easy to guess).

The only real question remains, why are MPAA/IRAA so adamant about piracy? Greed.

/Also, the uncanny ability to always stay at the wrong side of history (VCR, Camcorder ....)
 
2014-03-28 02:38:09 PM
$36 Billion dollars.  Wow.
 
2014-03-28 02:51:58 PM
I've always thought that when movies are priced right and convenient to acquire, piracy will be minimized. I can rent a movie for $3 on Amazon Prime through my PS3 app, and watch it right away. Pirating takes time to download, then I either have to load it to a thumb drive or burn a dual-layer disk. That trouble isn't worth 3 or 4 dollars for me.

At some point I expect studios and distributors to kill their deals with Prime and Netflix, and have their own apps.
 
2014-03-28 02:57:48 PM

rugman11: narkor: Music industry is down to 60% 2002 revenue (source wikipedia), but I'm sure that's because everyone instead goes to the gigs and buys t-shirts these days.

As for the Movie industry - piracy has meant that they've moved pretty much to a "blockbuster or bust" model. This is fine while the blockbusters keep making money (which they are now) - but a string of failures would fark things up (which is why we'll see more and more sequels and less and less new stuff because as Disney has figured out, pumping out superhero and Star Wars films for the next few decades is a more reliable revenue generator than taking big chances on untested content.

The music industry is down because, in their haste to stop piracy, they blew up the bundling model.  Prior to 2000 or so, the average person purchased four albums per year and album sales made up 90% of the music industry's annual revenue.  With the advent and widespread acceptance of iTunes, people stopped buying albums and started buying singles.  The average person now buys one album per year and multiple singles, but the single sales don't make up for the lost album sales.  I wish I had the great article that laid this all out, but this graph lays it out pretty well.



As for movies, if you look at the chart they give, domestic revenues have been staying stable.  They're making money in the international market.  Part of that is the blockbuster model, since blockbusters generally work better overseas.  They've also been shrinking the release window for new films, which I think helps keep piracy down.


The advent of the CD was responsible for the peak in the 90s as everyone bought CD versions of their tapes/albums.

It was never going to last.
 
2014-03-28 03:08:16 PM

Orgasmatron138: I've always thought that when movies are priced right and convenient to acquire, piracy will be minimized. I can rent a movie for $3 on Amazon Prime through my PS3 app, and watch it right away. Pirating takes time to download, then I either have to load it to a thumb drive or burn a dual-layer disk. That trouble isn't worth 3 or 4 dollars for me.

At some point I expect studios and distributors to kill their deals with Prime and Netflix, and have their own apps.


I have my machine set up to stream my downloads to my 360. I don't have to burn anything, move it around to view it, nothing. With FiOS, I can start a BRRip, go make some popcorn, smoke a cigarette, and by the time I am done, it is loaded on the streambox and ready to go.

Of course, I have taken time to set my system up properly, but probably less time than it takes to find a decent movie on Amazon Prime. And now the process is practically automated for me. I download my torrent file, load it into uTorrent, and away I go.
 
2014-03-28 03:16:14 PM

zvoidx: When virtual reality eventually becomes iniquitous for watching movies, going to physical theaters will become obsolete.


I disagree - I think movie theaters are starting to realize that, with people having 50"+ home TVs, they can't compete on just "we have a big-ass screen" alone. Around here, there are now several luxury theaters offering in-movie food and drink service in a comfy reclining chair, and they're doing pretty well. I think it's going to go in that direction, with movie theaters offering services beyond merely playing the movie. For example, daycare for annoying brats, metered beer taps between seats, etc.

Mind you, I have no idea why people like these. I've got a comfy couch, drinks in the fridge, and even a pause button at home, so who needs a movie theater. But the luxury theaters are definitely drawing customers.

/also, you wanted "ubiquitous"... "iniquitous" means something entirely different and changes your whole comment
 
2014-03-28 03:20:08 PM

narkor: Music industry is down to 60% 2002 revenue (source wikipedia), but I'm sure that's because everyone instead goes to the gigs and buys t-shirts these days.


Most music lovers are streaming. I don't buy an album unless I really want it for some reason. I got Failure's Fantastic Planet the other day because I remembered that album being really awesome. I was right. It's spectacular.

/Year of the Rabbit is basically Failure II. Their one disc is essentially a lost Failure album, in terms of sound, should anybody be interested.
 
2014-03-28 03:23:28 PM

zvoidx: When virtual reality eventually becomes iniquitous for watching movies, going to physical theaters will become obsolete.


Doubt it. Humans are social creatures who want to be around other humans sometimes, and no amount of virtual tech will ever replace it. Going out to eat, to the theater, the movies, concerts, sporting events, et al can't be 100% virtualized. Even if they got really, really close, down the smell and texture of used gum underneath a stadium seat, humans would know it wasn't real and thus, not the same.

For shut-ins though it'll be a boon.
 
2014-03-28 03:24:09 PM
 
2014-03-28 03:25:23 PM

narkor: Music industry is down to 60% 2002 revenue (source wikipedia), but I'm sure that's because everyone instead goes to the gigs and buys t-shirts these days.

As for the Movie industry - piracy has meant that they've moved pretty much to a "blockbuster or bust" model. This is fine while the blockbusters keep making money (which they are now) - but a string of failures would fark things up (which is why we'll see more and more sequels and less and less new stuff because as Disney has figured out, pumping out superhero and Star Wars films for the next few decades is a more reliable revenue generator than taking big chances on untested content.


static.tumblr.com

wat
 
2014-03-28 04:00:56 PM

wwffan7385: narkor: Music industry is down to 60% 2002 revenue (source wikipedia), but I'm sure that's because everyone instead goes to the gigs and buys t-shirts these days.

As for the Movie industry - piracy has meant that they've moved pretty much to a "blockbuster or bust" model. This is fine while the blockbusters keep making money (which they are now) - but a string of failures would fark things up (which is why we'll see more and more sequels and less and less new stuff because as Disney has figured out, pumping out superhero and Star Wars films for the next few decades is a more reliable revenue generator than taking big chances on untested content.

[static.tumblr.com image 500x495]

wat


Top Grossing Movies of 2013:

Hunger Games: Catching Fire
Iron Man 3
Frozen
Despicable Me 2
Man of Steel
Gravity
Monsters University
Hobbit 2
Fast & Furious 6
Oz the Great and Powerful
Star Trek 2
Thor 2
World War Z

Of the Top 13 movies, 9 are sequels to existing franchises and two more are based on existing properties.  While Frozen was a big hit, only it and Gravity were truly based on "untested content."
 
2014-03-28 04:06:39 PM
You're right, we shouldn't have to pay money for things.
 
2014-03-28 04:07:15 PM

verbaltoxin: narkor: Music industry is down to 60% 2002 revenue (source wikipedia), but I'm sure that's because everyone instead goes to the gigs and buys t-shirts these days.

Most music lovers are streaming. I don't buy an album unless I really want it for some reason. I got Failure's Fantastic Planet the other day because I remembered that album being really awesome. I was right. It's spectacular.

/Year of the Rabbit is basically Failure II. Their one disc is essentially a lost Failure album, in terms of sound, should anybody be interested.


4 Hipster points awarded
 
2014-03-28 04:12:53 PM

Theaetetus: zvoidx: When virtual reality eventually becomes iniquitous for watching movies, going to physical theaters will become obsolete.

I disagree - I think movie theaters are starting to realize that, with people having 50"+ home TVs, they can't compete on just "we have a big-ass screen" alone. Around here, there are now several luxury theaters offering in-movie food and drink service in a comfy reclining chair, and they're doing pretty well. I think it's going to go in that direction, with movie theaters offering services beyond merely playing the movie. For example, daycare for annoying brats, metered beer taps between seats, etc.

Mind you, I have no idea why people like these. I've got a comfy couch, drinks in the fridge, and even a pause button at home, so who needs a movie theater. But the luxury theaters are definitely drawing customers.


Perhaps it may be both what you're saying and VR.
VR will definitely be an option soon.


Theaetetus: zvoidx: /also, you wanted "ubiquitous"... "iniquitous" means something entirely different and changes your whole comment


Spell-check did that.
 
2014-03-28 04:41:49 PM

wwffan7385: wat


Dude, just   ♫♬♪ LET IT GO, LET IT GO!!! ♫♪ ♬

/really hating that movie...
// damn Costco and their low, low price on that damn movie
 
2014-03-28 04:43:14 PM

B.L.Z. Bub: So basically, piraters, if I understand things correctly, your cunning plan is to make sure that the practice of piracy doesn't become mainstream and widespread. If everyone pirated all the time, the media companies would most certainly lose money, thus nullifying your argument that what you do doesn't affect their profits. So as long as only a small percentage of the public pirates, you're golden. Logically then, you cannot advocate that everyone engage in this practice, and you must ensure that the pirating community remains a small elite. Am I wrong?


So you don't believe in the free market, because you're okay with the media companies continually eroding the public domain and rewriting laws in order to retain their monopoly on ideas. Am I wrong?
 
2014-03-28 05:36:50 PM
  For movies I started Pirating what I could when I found they now seem to sell DVDs with a certain "shelf life". I spent hundreds on movies and TV series only to find that after repeated viewings they no longer work. I don't understand why DVDs I bought in the 90's with tons of scratches on them still work yet the ones I bought in recent years start freezing if there's a tiny blemish on it. Fark them with their greedy bullshiat of wanting to people to rent there content for a few viewings instead of owning it.

 For Music I started pirating for the same reason. Cassettes started getting sucked up, CD's start skipping after several plays. Guess what Recording industry,,, I've already bought most of the music I listen to 3 or 4 times in 3 or 4 formats,,, I'm not paying because I already have 3 or 4 times.

For games, the last straw was purchasing Civ 5 and finding out the hard way you can only enter your product key once. I tried to install it but there was a problem with steam updating so It wouldn't download. Unfortunately, I couldn't even start the process without registering a Steam account first. So I did that first  and realized some others were having the "steam was unable to update" problem as well so I shelved it, since one can no longer return software. About 6 months later I notice on the steam forums someone found a work around for the "steam unable to update" problem and gave it another try. Problem is is when I gave them the product key, they said that it was already used by another steam account, and as this was six months later I no longer had the password for the steam account. I didn't even remember the farking user name. I couldn't have them verify by E-mail because I switched from The Shiatty "Live.com" to G-mail.  Bottom line is my $50 game was now useless because it couldn't install when I bought it, but when they fixed the problem on their end, I couldn't install it because I already tried once and failed. Take my 50 bucks you greedy bastards, and I'll take what I can from now on.
 
2014-03-28 05:50:22 PM

van1ty: If someone downloads a movie, and then he tells 10 people to watch the movie, and half pay to see the movie, and then they tell 10 people, half who pay to see the movie, then you've had one illegal download turn into 55 paying customers!


And you've gotten 55 people who stole it. It's not a net gain if the sin = the good, no matter how a pirate wants to rationalize their ethical lapse..
 
2014-03-28 05:59:42 PM

Orgasmatron138: I've always thought that when movies are priced right and convenient to acquire, piracy will be minimized. I can rent a movie for $3 on Amazon Prime through my PS3 app, and watch it right away. Pirating takes time to download, then I either have to load it to a thumb drive or burn a dual-layer disk. That trouble isn't worth 3 or 4 dollars for me.


I have just changed your life. No need to thank me.

http://www.ps3mediaserver.org/
 
2014-03-28 06:01:45 PM

Somaticasual: van1ty: If someone downloads a movie, and then he tells 10 people to watch the movie, and half pay to see the movie, and then they tell 10 people, half who pay to see the movie, then you've had one illegal download turn into 55 paying customers!

And you've gotten 55 people who stole it. It's not a net gain if the sin = the good, no matter how a pirate wants to rationalize their ethical lapse..


Who did the pirate steal from?
 
2014-03-28 06:04:56 PM

GanjSmokr: van1ty: If someone downloads a movie, and then he tells 10 people to watch the movie, and half pay to see the movie, and then they tell 10 people, half who pay to see the movie, then you've had one illegal download turn into 55 paying customers!

That's not at all how it works.  That one downloader single handedly costs the entire movie industry over 1 Billion dollars with every viewing of their pirated material.


Piracy amt = amt they wanted - amt actually earned.
 
2014-03-28 06:20:17 PM

Scrotastic Method: Somaticasual: van1ty: If someone downloads a movie, and then he tells 10 people to watch the movie, and half pay to see the movie, and then they tell 10 people, half who pay to see the movie, then you've had one illegal download turn into 55 paying customers!

And you've gotten 55 people who stole it. It's not a net gain if the sin = the good, no matter how a pirate wants to rationalize their ethical lapse..

Who did the pirate steal from?


The intellectual property holders they downloaded the movies or songs from.

Hint: Like any service, just because you can't physically hold it, that doesn't mean the pirate isn't stealing it. For instance -  If you walk into a massage parlor, get a massage, and walk out - they're going to call the cops and have you arrested for theft of services.


//that being said, i don't actually agree with the john doe trading lawsuits, but the courts have determined that's what the law says.
 
2014-03-28 07:21:26 PM

Somaticasual: The intellectual property holders they downloaded the movies or songs from.


Not true. Me watching a pirated movie costs the IP holders exactly nothing. Nothing has been taken from them. That's why it's not theft. It's a copyright violation at best.

Simple overused metaphor: I steal your car, you can't drive it. You copy Lassie for me, you can still watch Lassie.

Hint: Like any service, just because you can't physically hold it, that doesn't mean the pirate isn't stealing it. For instance -  If you walk into a massage parlor, get a massage, and walk out - they're going to call the cops and have you arrested for theft of services.

A service provider can clearly explain what was taken from them -- their time and their skill, which is the thing that they sell -- directly by a guy bouncing on the check. You can't do that with downloaders, and that's why "theft" isn't happening.

//that being said, i don't actually agree with the john doe trading lawsuits, but the courts have determined that's what the law says.

I've read a ton of those subpoenas and motions. I've been subpoenaed, and I've written motions to get those cases dismissed. Not once, on any filing anywhere, has "theft" or "stealing" been used.

Grabbing a movie from The Pirate Bay damages the movie studio equally as much as borrowing a DVD from a friend or borrowing it from your library. Hell it's actually better for the studios than if you were to buy a used physical copy, which of course is totally fine everywhere always, because at least the pirated version is incomplete (extras, languages, etc.) and more temporary by nature. But in NO case is anything stolen.
 
2014-03-28 08:05:45 PM

Scrotastic Method: A service provider can clearly explain what was taken from them -- their time and their skill, which is the thing that they sell -- directly by a guy bouncing on the check. You can't do that with downloaders, and that's why "theft" isn't happening.


The MPAAA *already* tells you exactly what you've stolen from them - what song, what day, what time, and from where. Again, just because you've convinced yourself that what you're doing is perfectly fine, that doesn't mean it is. It's theft of someone's potential profits, even if no physical media was stolen. sorry you had parents that failed to explain the difference between right and wrong, apparently.
 
2014-03-28 09:12:59 PM

Somaticasual: Scrotastic Method: A service provider can clearly explain what was taken from them -- their time and their skill, which is the thing that they sell -- directly by a guy bouncing on the check. You can't do that with downloaders, and that's why "theft" isn't happening.

The MPAAA *already* tells you exactly what you've stolen from them - what song, what day, what time, and from where. Again, just because you've convinced yourself that what you're doing is perfectly fine, that doesn't mean it is. It's theft of someone's potential profits, even if no physical media was stolen. sorry you had parents that failed to explain the difference between right and wrong, apparently.


The theft of potential profits? There's no such thing. If I kill a guy do I also get sentenced for the babies he never got to make? One life sentence for the victim and a million for his sperm?

Explain to me how it's not "theft of potential profits" to borrow a disc from a friend, or to go to GameStop and grab a used copy of something. The studio/rights holder makes an equal amount of money whether I bum it, buy used, or torrent.
 
2014-03-28 09:31:08 PM

Scrotastic Method: Somaticasual: Scrotastic Method: A service provider can clearly explain what was taken from them -- their time and their skill, which is the thing that they sell -- directly by a guy bouncing on the check. You can't do that with downloaders, and that's why "theft" isn't happening.

The MPAAA *already* tells you exactly what you've stolen from them - what song, what day, what time, and from where. Again, just because you've convinced yourself that what you're doing is perfectly fine, that doesn't mean it is. It's theft of someone's potential profits, even if no physical media was stolen. sorry you had parents that failed to explain the difference between right and wrong, apparently.

The theft of potential profits? There's no such thing. If I kill a guy do I also get sentenced for the babies he never got to make? One life sentence for the victim and a million for his sperm?

Explain to me how it's not "theft of potential profits" to borrow a disc from a friend, or to go to GameStop and grab a used copy of something. The studio/rights holder makes an equal amount of money whether I bum it, buy used, or torrent.


Not a legal term, granted. But that's what they're suing for. To improve the massage parlor analogy - it's more like sneaking into a cinema to watch a movie and standing instead of sitting. Sure, you didn't take a seat away from a paying ticketholder, but you did deprive the theater of the profit they would have made if you had followed the law and respected that a business is a business - not a giveaway. And you'll probably still be punished for sneaking in, much like getting sued for pirating a song.

On your borrowing analogy - technically, you'd be overstepping public performance licenses there, so that opens a whole new can of worms ethically. If you chose to rip that cd, you'd be violating IP and copyright laws likewise. The only thing i'll concede on that one is that if you didn't copy it, and just gave it back to your friend after a listen, that's a gray area and you may have a case there.

Again, you can rationalize it all you'd like, but it's theft of someone's time and effort and YOU DON'T HAVE A LEGAL RIGHT to enjoy most songs without paying for them. Feel free to argue into the wind that you're not a thief, but that's what the law says you are by doing it. Either fight to change the law, or download the music a lot of artists put out for free.  Just trying to pull out the old tired "but, but, i'm not a thief if i don't pocket it...blah blah blah" is self-deluded at best in ethical terms.
 
2014-03-28 10:33:25 PM
So it's not stealing, and then it is? Theft is a particular thing that means a particular thing, and you're using it as a catch-all for "having something you maybe shouldn't." That's my issue.  And pirated downloading is not theft, from anyone. It's important that you understand that if you want to talk about the ramifications -- either real or imagined -- of piracy.

Somaticasual: On your borrowing analogy - technically, you'd be overstepping public performance licenses there


Does anyone have that "lol wut" pear image handy?
 
2014-03-28 10:43:05 PM

Somaticasual: Scrotastic Method: A service provider can clearly explain what was taken from them -- their time and their skill, which is the thing that they sell -- directly by a guy bouncing on the check. You can't do that with downloaders, and that's why "theft" isn't happening.

The MPAAA *already* tells you exactly what you've stolen from them - what song, what day, what time, and from where. Again, just because you've convinced yourself that what you're doing is perfectly fine, that doesn't mean it is. It's theft of someone's potential profits, even if no physical media was stolen. sorry you had parents that failed to explain the difference between right and wrong, apparently.


I'm going to give you $10,000.
 
2014-03-28 10:43:29 PM

Scrotastic Method: So it's not stealing, and then it is? Theft is a particular thing that means a particular thing, and you're using it as a catch-all for "having something you maybe shouldn't." That's my issue. And pirated downloading is not theft, from anyone. It's important that you understand that if you want to talk about the ramifications -- either real or imagined -- of piracy.

Somaticasual: On your borrowing analogy - technically, you'd be overstepping public performance licenses there

Does anyone have that "lol wut" pear image handy?


So, basically, you acknowledge what you're doing is wrong but are arguing on semantics?

And on the latter pear request, as asinine as it is there are some very different rules for public performance of music that have been even interpreted as loosely as overhearing a radio in a restaurant's kitchen. If you don't understand that, then you may want to do some reading yourself - http://entertainment.howstuffworks.com/music-licensing3.htm . This is why restaurants that want to play music either subscribe to a service like muzak (where the licensing is included in the price) or pay monthly/yearly royalties as a catch-call to ASCAP, BMI, or a third company that I can't recall the name for offhand. And, unfortunately, those companies are just as crazy about the infringement fees : http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20110815/11503015533/restaurant-owne r -ordered-to-pay-bmi-30450-illegally-playing-four-unlicensed-songs.shtm l
 
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