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(Yahoo)   Ukraine to West: "Uh...They've got a lot of dudes over here"   (news.yahoo.com) divider line 217
    More: Scary, Russian troops, Ukraine, Russians, Fogh Rasmussen, Kharkiv, Atlantic Council, street demonstrations, Government of Ukraine  
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7421 clicks; posted to Main » on 28 Mar 2014 at 7:49 AM (34 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-03-28 07:51:19 AM  
As punishment for losing the upcoming war, I think the Hague should mandate for that the rest of his life Putin has to wear a pink tutu and carry a fairy wand wherever he goes.
 
2014-03-28 07:54:32 AM  
Not really much you can do. They can't fight that big an army and we can't help them without risking WWIII. Russia is perpetually on the verge of collapse so let them take over and wait for their terrible leadership to ruin them. We have to do that here with the republican party constantly.
 
2014-03-28 07:54:47 AM  
I look forward to the next decade of Medal of Honor iterations using the "Russia vs. everyone" motif. Killing suspiciously well-put-together Muslim terrorists who somehow transitioned from herding goats to plotting to nuke the US was getting old.
 
2014-03-28 07:55:32 AM  
To be fair

SpoonMan: neo-nazi groups

SpoonMan: fascism

SpoonMan: right-wing neo-nazi groups

SpoonMan: happen to be nazi

SpoonMan: Nazi Party

SpoonMan: Neo-Nazis
 
2014-03-28 07:56:12 AM  
NATO's credibility isn't worth the paper it's printed on
 
2014-03-28 07:56:35 AM  
Seven extra every turn, in fact
 
2014-03-28 07:56:39 AM  

LewDux: To be fair

SpoonMan: neo-nazi groups

SpoonMan: fascism

SpoonMan: right-wing neo-nazi groups

SpoonMan: happen to be nazi

SpoonMan: Nazi Party

SpoonMan: Neo-Nazis


What on earth are you on about?
 
2014-03-28 07:56:51 AM  
Has Putin grown that lil mustache yet?

I'm not the least bit suprised.
 
2014-03-28 07:57:56 AM  

WTF Indeed: As punishment for losing the upcoming war, I think the Hague should mandate for that the rest of his life Putin has to wear a pink tutu and carry a fairy wand wherever he goes.


You planning to go all Rambo on the Russian army or something? 'Cos I'm not sure who'd be stepping up to fight, other than a few scrawny nationalists and a Ukrainian army which, for all it's bravery, wouldn't stand a chance.
 
2014-03-28 07:58:55 AM  
So, the Cold War is hot again?
 
2014-03-28 07:59:50 AM  
"Almost 100,000 soldiers are stationed on the borders of Ukraine and in the direction ... of Kharkiv, Donetsk, " Andriy Parubiy, chairman of Ukraine's national security council, said via a webcast from Kiev.

and then:

Although US defense officials have put the number of Russian troops closer to 20,000, a US lawmaker said Thursday that much stronger Russian forces had deployed towards Ukraine's border.
"Over the past week we've seen the buildup of up to 80,000 additional Russian troops," Representative Mike Turner said in a statement.


Uh...math is hard?

Or am I not reading right?  20K + 80K = 100K
 
2014-03-28 08:00:32 AM  
imageshack.com
 
2014-03-28 08:01:23 AM  
Hard to say if this is true, it's from a Ukrainian source.

There's no reason for Russia to put 100,000 men on the border unless an invasion is imminent.  Ukraine has already backed down on Crimea.  They've given up.  Putin hasn't made any new demands, there's no reason for him to further intimidate Ukraine.  If he just wants to intimidate, 25k is as good as 100k.

This is like Saddam and the Kuwaitis, the point after Kuwait had conceded to Saddam's demands but before the Iraqi invasion.  Saddam had his victory, but kept all his men on the border.  Two or three days later, invasion.

The smart move for Saddam then would have been to stand down, take his winnings, and go home.  That's also the smartest move Putin can make.  He's won quite a lot, if he goes into eastern Ukraine, all hell will break loose.

Putin has to know what this will do to his economy.  If he goes in, you've got to figure Putin wants his billionaires to bring all the money and spoiled brats back home.   Maybe he's hoping it will bootstrap his domestic economy instead of importing everything from Europe.  Seems all the oligarchs send their brats to the UK for schooling and export most of their Russian loot to foreign destinations.

If he invades eastern Ukraine, the sanctions are going to be massive.  That, and we'll start sending billions in weapons through Poland.
 
2014-03-28 08:02:13 AM  

yukichigai: I look forward to the next decade of Medal of Honor iterations using the "Russia vs. everyone" motif.


And the outrage of Russia about that portrayal would be a sight to behold. :) "The West teaches our children that Russia is evil!", huh, huh.

So, yeah, it does. Problem? :)

yukichigai: Killing suspiciously well-put-together Muslim terrorists who somehow transitioned from herding goats to plotting to nuke the US was getting old.


Yeah.

I wonder, however, how it works with children of the US. I mean, they are taught from a young age that pretty much the whole world hates them for their freedoms and wants to kill them, and the only solution is to drown the world in blood. I think it may backfire somewhere down the line.
 
2014-03-28 08:03:21 AM  
We better draft up another strongly worded letter QUICK!
 
2014-03-28 08:04:26 AM  

RandomRandom: If he invades eastern Ukraine, the sanctions are going to be massive.  That, and we'll start sending billions in weapons through Poland.


That, and he knows the endgame can only involve either him surrendering or NATO/the US overrunning him completely.  Russia against Ukraine, sure. Russia against everyone else, not so much. He has to be tactical about his land grabs.  Crimea was one he could get away with.  The rest of Ukraine, no chance.
 
2014-03-28 08:04:45 AM  

Crewmannumber6: NATO's credibility isn't worth the paper it's printed on


If only Ukraine was a NATO member.
 
2014-03-28 08:05:15 AM  
Obama should draw a red line somewhere or something
 
2014-03-28 08:05:48 AM  
Dude.
www.whomadeyoumirabelli.com
 
2014-03-28 08:05:57 AM  
Maybe they think Obama is coming to invade. Lol, yes?
 
2014-03-28 08:06:21 AM  

NaziKamikaze: Although US defense officials have put the number of Russian troops closer to 20,000, a US lawmaker said Thursday that much stronger Russian forces had deployed towards Ukraine's border.
"Over the past week we've seen the buildup of up to 80,000 additional Russian troops," Representative Mike Turner said in a statement.


You misread the article. US defense officials think there are 20k troops. US representative Mike Turner have proclaimed that "additional 80k were deployed", basing that information on the words of Ukrainians, without consulting with US defense officials. US defense officials replied with "uh... I think he pulled the number out of his backside..."

But, of course, "calm down everyone, US defense still thinks it's 20k" doesn't make for a good headline, eh.
 
2014-03-28 08:07:18 AM  

Tricky Chicken: We better draft up another strongly worded letter QUICK!


So you're saying Obama should declare war against Russia?

Yeah, didn't think so.

So our President should do what, exactly?

/FYI, Bush didn't even impose sanctions when Russia took a large chunk of Georgia.
 
2014-03-28 08:07:25 AM  
Ukraine better hope they keep rolling boxcars until Russian forces get depleted.
 
2014-03-28 08:07:44 AM  
What does the Leading From BehindTM manual say to do in this situation?

"Whoops, our bad."


when you leave a vacuum of power, evil fills the vacuum.
 
2014-03-28 08:08:48 AM  

Candy Colored Clown: Crewmannumber6: NATO's credibility isn't worth the paper it's printed on

If only Ukraine was a NATO member.


Yeah, I was about to post that.
 
2014-03-28 08:08:59 AM  

Grahor: I wonder, however, how it works with children of the US. I mean, they are taught from a young age that pretty much the whole world hates them for their freedoms and wants to kill them, and the only solution is to drown the world in blood. I think it may backfire somewhere down the line.


To be fair, they are only taught that in the derpiest of schoolrooms.  The rest of the US gets taught a more complex view, specifically that different cultures have different core morals, and when those morals don't align people get grumpy.  Sadly, it's from the "derp" segment that the bulk of our military is recruited.
 
2014-03-28 08:10:01 AM  

NaziKamikaze: "Almost 100,000 soldiers are stationed on the borders of Ukraine and in the direction ... of Kharkiv, Donetsk, " Andriy Parubiy, chairman of Ukraine's national security council, said via a webcast from Kiev.

and then:

Although US defense officials have put the number of Russian troops closer to 20,000, a US lawmaker said Thursday that much stronger Russian forces had deployed towards Ukraine's border.
"Over the past week we've seen the buildup of up to 80,000 additional Russian troops," Representative Mike Turner said in a statement.

Uh...math is hard?

Or am I not reading right?  20K + 80K = 100K


The 20,000 troops comes from the Pentagon. The 80,000 more is from a Republican Rep out to make Obama look bad and probably couldn't locate Ukraine on a map.

That might be the problem with your math.
 
2014-03-28 08:10:31 AM  

SlothB77: when you leave a vacuum of power, evil fills the vacuum.


How many American lives is the Ukraine worth? And, are you willing to enlist to go?
 
2014-03-28 08:10:39 AM  

hitlersbrain: Not really much you can do. They can't fight that big an army and we can't help them without risking WWIII. Russia is perpetually on the verge of collapse so let them take over and wait for their terrible leadership to ruin them. We have to do that here with the republican party constantly.


That's the sad fact.   The EU needs Russian petroleum.  Russia needs tbe revenue from that.    The US doesn't want to start WWIII.  Putin knows this and is going to try to get away with as much as he can which seems like it could be a lot.

Serious question....does anyone know what Germany and the rest of Europe did to get oil before the breakup of the Soviet Union?  They must have got it from some place.

This is not (entirely) Obama's fault, but since it happened while he was in office, this could well be his legacy.
 
2014-03-28 08:10:41 AM  

yukichigai: RandomRandom: If he invades eastern Ukraine, the sanctions are going to be massive.  That, and we'll start sending billions in weapons through Poland.

That, and he knows the endgame can only involve either him surrendering or NATO/the US overrunning him completely.  Russia against Ukraine, sure. Russia against everyone else, not so much. He has to be tactical about his land grabs.  Crimea was one he could get away with.  The rest of Ukraine, no chance.


There's no suggestion he'd try to take all of Ukraine.  He'd only move on the eastern provinces, the areas that voted for Yanukovych, where almost everyone speaks Russian as their first language.

If he has 100k troops on the border, it's happening.  If it's just 20k, no he's not going in, he's just being an asshole.
 
2014-03-28 08:11:37 AM  

RandomRandom: The smart move for Saddam then would have been to stand down, take his winnings, and go home.  That's also the smartest move Putin can make.  He's won quite a lot, if he goes into eastern Ukraine, all hell will break loose.


The only thing Putin has won is a solid recession for his economy and international isolation. Nobody is conceding Crimea to Russia. Unless you believe in Eddie Izzard's version of ownership, the mere fact that Putin hoisted the Russian flag over there does not make Crimea his. Nobody in the west will ever recognize the attempted annexation. All he has done is doomed Crimea to years of complicated political and economic squalor.
 
2014-03-28 08:12:19 AM  

RandomRandom: Tricky Chicken: We better draft up another strongly worded letter QUICK!

So you're saying Obama should declare war against Russia?

Yeah, didn't think so.

So our President should do what, exactly?

/FYI, Bush didn't even impose sanctions when Russia took a large chunk of Georgia.


First, we should ask the legitimate Ukranian leadership if they would like our assistance maintaining their territorial integrity like we agreed to respect with the Budapest Memorandum.  Then we should send in troops to assist them as necessary to secure their territory.  Should the Russians fire upon us or resist, we should use sufficient force to restore the Crimean peninsula to Ukraine as we obligated ourselves.   You know honor our agreements and all that.
 
2014-03-28 08:13:59 AM  

gfid: hitlersbrain: Not really much you can do. They can't fight that big an army and we can't help them without risking WWIII. Russia is perpetually on the verge of collapse so let them take over and wait for their terrible leadership to ruin them. We have to do that here with the republican party constantly.

That's the sad fact.   The EU needs Russian petroleum.  Russia needs tbe revenue from that.    The US doesn't want to start WWIII.  Putin knows this and is going to try to get away with as much as he can which seems like it could be a lot.

Serious question....does anyone know what Germany and the rest of Europe did to get oil before the breakup of the Soviet Union?  They must have got it from some place.

This is not (entirely) Obama's fault, but since it happened while he was in office, this could well be his legacy.


FTFY
 
2014-03-28 08:15:32 AM  

Tricky Chicken: RandomRandom: Tricky Chicken: We better draft up another strongly worded letter QUICK!

So you're saying Obama should declare war against Russia?

Yeah, didn't think so.

So our President should do what, exactly?

/FYI, Bush didn't even impose sanctions when Russia took a large chunk of Georgia.

First, we should ask the legitimate Ukranian leadership if they would like our assistance maintaining their territorial integrity like we agreed to respect with the Budapest Memorandum.  Then we should send in troops to assist them as necessary to secure their territory.  Should the Russians fire upon us or resist, we should use sufficient force to restore the Crimean peninsula to Ukraine as we obligated ourselves.   You know honor our agreements and all that.


8/10, you'll get some bites
 
2014-03-28 08:15:40 AM  

Tricky Chicken: RandomRandom: Tricky Chicken: We better draft up another strongly worded letter QUICK!

So you're saying Obama should declare war against Russia?

Yeah, didn't think so.

So our President should do what, exactly?

/FYI, Bush didn't even impose sanctions when Russia took a large chunk of Georgia.

First, we should ask the legitimate Ukranian leadership if they would like our assistance maintaining their territorial integrity like we agreed to respect with the Budapest Memorandum.  Then we should send in troops to assist them as necessary to secure their territory.  Should the Russians fire upon us or resist, we should use sufficient force to restore the Crimean peninsula to Ukraine as we obligated ourselves.   You know honor our agreements and all that.


And then you would be right back in here whining about Obama being a warmonger.
 
2014-03-28 08:18:08 AM  

Marmilman: The only thing Putin has won is a solid recession for his economy and international isolation. Nobody is conceding Crimea to Russia. Unless you believe in Eddie Izzard's version of ownership, the mere fact that Putin hoisted the Russian flag over there does not make Crimea his. Nobody in the west will ever recognize the attempted annexation. All he has done is doomed Crimea to years of complicated political and economic squalor.


You won't get any disagreement from me.  Five years from now, everyone will realize how terrible the Crimean conquest has been for Russia. The damage to Russia's economy will be evident.  It will be far larger than any gain they received.

The President is right.  This wasn't a move based on strength, it was caused by Russia's weakness.

That doesn't change the fact that Putin's smartest move right now is to hold firm and NOT start a war in eastern Ukraine.  If he goes in, all hell will break loose.  Russia's economy will go into free fall and he'll be at an immediate, though indirect war with the west.
 
2014-03-28 08:19:07 AM  

RandomRandom: If it's just 20k, no he's not going in, he's just being an asshole.


I think if it's 20k he's just doing the military version of "what?  You got a problem? Try something."  Which is assholish, but has a purpose at least.

Really, I see the reasoning behind Putin taking Crimea, though I in no way condone it.  So long as he leaves it to that he might ride this thing out.  Otherwise he's kinda boned.  Any subsequent land grab is going to incite enough ire to make things go very badly for him.
 
2014-03-28 08:19:47 AM  

Tricky Chicken: We better draft up another strongly worded letter QUICK!


You're right, let's invade!
 
2014-03-28 08:20:55 AM  

SlothB77: What does the Leading From BehindTM manual say to do in this situation?

"Whoops, our bad."


when you leave a vacuum of power, evil fills the vacuum.


But enough about Bush's reaction to Georgia.
 
2014-03-28 08:21:06 AM  
www.lifo.gr
 
2014-03-28 08:21:39 AM  

SlothB77: What does the Leading From BehindTM manual say to do in this situation?

"Whoops, our bad."


when you leave a vacuum of power, evil fills the vacuum.


well...what's stopping you from fighting the commie menace? Go! FIGHT! We'll even give you a rifle and ammo, and you can go stop Putin all by your lonesome!

/get the fark out, you chickenhawk
 
2014-03-28 08:21:54 AM  

LewDux: To be fair

SpoonMan: neo-nazi groups

SpoonMan: fascism

SpoonMan: right-wing neo-nazi groups

SpoonMan: happen to be nazi

SpoonMan: Nazi Party

SpoonMan: Neo-Nazis


He's got a sweet contract with RT.  C'mon, this is the first steady job he's had in 10 years, let the man work.
 
2014-03-28 08:22:59 AM  

Tyrone Slothrop: SlothB77: What does the Leading From BehindTM manual say to do in this situation?

"Whoops, our bad."


when you leave a vacuum of power, evil fills the vacuum.

But enough about Bush's reaction to Georgia.


Or Alabama, for that matter.
 
2014-03-28 08:23:03 AM  

theknuckler_33: Tricky Chicken: We better draft up another strongly worded letter QUICK!

You're right, let's invade!


There already was an invasion of a country we agreed to support by a hostile force.  We are hiding like cowards behind petty gestures and letters.
 
2014-03-28 08:23:54 AM  
I just don't understand why it's the US's responsibility to lead here.  The Ukraine should be Europe's concern, since they stand to benefit more than the US.  If Europe wants to use sanctions, the US should too.  If Europe wants to use military force, fine, the US should back them up.  But why is it our job to get involved in shiat halfway around the world?
 
2014-03-28 08:24:49 AM  

Tricky Chicken: First, we should ask the legitimate Ukranian leadership if they would like our assistance maintaining their territorial integrity like we agreed to respect with the Budapest Memorandum. Then we should send in troops to assist them as necessary to secure their territory. Should the Russians fire upon us or resist, we should use sufficient force to restore the Crimean peninsula to Ukraine as we obligated ourselves. You know honor our agreements and all that.


So you're volunteering to go in and fight that war?

I'll bet the Ukrainian defense forces would be willing to sign up any willing volunteers.  Why don't you give them a call?

Here's the thing, America doesn't want to fight a war with the Russians.

The Budapest Memorandum is not a defense treaty.  You know what is a defense treaty? NATO.  Ukraine had their chance to join NATO, they turned us down.  Their loss.

If you want to fight the Russians, go right ahead, move to Ukraine.  The polls have been done, America doesn't want to fight that war.
 
2014-03-28 08:25:14 AM  

Tricky Chicken: theknuckler_33: Tricky Chicken: We better draft up another strongly worded letter QUICK!

You're right, let's invade!

There already was an invasion of a country we agreed to support by a hostile force.  We are hiding like cowards behind petty gestures and letters.


How should the U.S government deal with this? I would like to hear your specific, step-by-step plan of action.
 
2014-03-28 08:25:48 AM  

Tricky Chicken: RandomRandom: Tricky Chicken: We better draft up another strongly worded letter QUICK!

So you're saying Obama should declare war against Russia?

Yeah, didn't think so.

So our President should do what, exactly?

/FYI, Bush didn't even impose sanctions when Russia took a large chunk of Georgia.

First, we should ask the legitimate Ukranian leadership if they would like our assistance maintaining their territorial integrity like we agreed to respect with the Budapest Memorandum.  Then we should send in troops to assist them as necessary to secure their territory.  Should the Russians fire upon us or resist, we should use sufficient force to restore the Crimean peninsula to Ukraine as we obligated ourselves.   You know honor our agreements and all that.


Agreeing to stay out of their affairs != getting into a war with Russia if Russia violates THEIR promise to stay out of their affairs.
 
2014-03-28 08:26:44 AM  

Tricky Chicken: theknuckler_33: Tricky Chicken: We better draft up another strongly worded letter QUICK!

You're right, let's invade!

There already was an invasion of a country we agreed to support by a hostile force.  We are hiding like cowards behind petty gestures and letters.


We have no obligation to support Ukraine militarily.
 
2014-03-28 08:27:21 AM  
Dude.
img2.wikia.nocookie.net
/cheese ain't gonna slice itself
 
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