If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(Wired)   Old and busted: Turing tests. The new hotness: Turing patterns. And you could probably watch them form and change all day   (wired.com) divider line 27
    More: Interesting, Alan Turing, Turing tests, Brandeis University, morphology, randomness, cross-sections, cadre, mitochondria  
•       •       •

2589 clicks; posted to Geek » on 28 Mar 2014 at 9:06 AM (16 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



27 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2014-03-28 07:36:17 AM
The theory of a gay man leads to a rainbow of colors and shapes?

Color me shocked.
 
2014-03-28 07:37:46 AM
Now that the joke is out of the way, much respect to Mr. Turing.  As a computer nerd and a SIGINT/crypto-weenie, there are two distinct areas where he's had an impact on my interests.
 
2014-03-28 09:09:57 AM
Is this testing whether I'm a Replicant or a lesbian, Mr. Deckard?
 
2014-03-28 10:04:52 AM
Can machines think?
 
2014-03-28 10:07:48 AM

dittybopper: Now that the joke is out of the way, much respect to Mr. Turing.  As a computer nerd and a SIGINT/crypto-weenie, there are two distinct areas where he's had an impact on my interests.


Buttsex and ?????


/Turing was crazy smart and treated like shiat
 
2014-03-28 10:22:13 AM

DoBeDoBeDo: dittybopper: Now that the joke is out of the way, much respect to Mr. Turing.  As a computer nerd and a SIGINT/crypto-weenie, there are two distinct areas where he's had an impact on my interests.

Buttsex and ?????


/Turing was crazy smart and treated like shiat


Yes, but in some ways, his reputation is more than reality.

He gets more credit for breaking Enigma than I think he actually deserves.  The principles for breaking it were actually derived by the Poles in the early 1930's while Turing was still an undergrad in Cambridge.  Turing merely built on the work of Rejewski, and he had help from a number of other brilliant but lesser-known people like Welchman.

Doesn't mean he didn't do vital work, but reading some tracts you'd get the impression that he broke Enigma all by himself.
 
2014-03-28 10:33:46 AM

SordidEuphemism: Is this testing whether I'm a Replicant or a lesbian, Mr. Deckard?


Nice.

Also, every one of my acid trips, ever.
 
2014-03-28 10:42:58 AM

dittybopper: DoBeDoBeDo: dittybopper: Now that the joke is out of the way, much respect to Mr. Turing.  As a computer nerd and a SIGINT/crypto-weenie, there are two distinct areas where he's had an impact on my interests.

Buttsex and ?????


/Turing was crazy smart and treated like shiat

Yes, but in some ways, his reputation is more than reality.

He gets more credit for breaking Enigma than I think he actually deserves.  The principles for breaking it were actually derived by the Poles in the early 1930's while Turing was still an undergrad in Cambridge.  Turing merely built on the work of Rejewski, and he had help from a number of other brilliant but lesser-known people like Welchman.

Doesn't mean he didn't do vital work, but reading some tracts you'd get the impression that he broke Enigma all by himself.


Those are tracts, not properly researched history. The Enigma thing is a canard: Turing's contribution was to kick-start computer science before there were computers. He and von Neumann seemed to be cut from the same cloth in this regard. People generally acknowledged as geniuses in their own right would comment "I can't keep up" with both Turing and von Neumann.

Of course, what is unknown is why nature creates people who are able to do such cognitions seemingly without effort:

"Two bicyclists start twenty miles apart and head toward each other, each going at a steady rate of 10 mph. At the same time a fly that travels at a steady 15 mph starts from the front wheel of the southbound bicycle and flies to the front wheel of the northbound one, then turns around and flies to the front wheel of the southbound one again, and continues in this manner till he is crushed between the two front wheels. Question: what total distance did the fly cover? The slow way to find the answer is to calculate what distance the fly covers on the first, northbound, leg of the trip, then on the second, southbound, leg, then on the third, etc., etc., and, finally, to sum the infinite series so obtained. The quick way is to observe that the bicycles meet exactly one hour after their start, so that the fly had just an hour for his travels; the answer must therefore be 15 miles. When the question was put to von Neumann, he solved it in an instant, and thereby disappointed the questioner: "Oh, you must have heard the trick before!" "What trick?" asked von Neumann, "All I did was sum the infinite series."
 
2014-03-28 10:45:52 AM
blog.stonebrew.com
 
2014-03-28 11:30:43 AM

Valiente: Those are tracts, not properly researched history.


Yeah, well, the thing is that many, if not most, *WERE* properly researched history, but the full story hadn't been declassified at the time.

For an example of this phenomenon, if you were to watch the excellent "War at Sea" television program, which came out prior to the revelation that the US had been reading the Japanese codes, you'd get the impression that we won the Battle of Midway out of sheer luck.

Perhaps even a better example is David Kahn's seminal book on the subject, "The Codebreakers".  I read the first edition of it when I was a young teen, and it actually led me to want to become a cryptanalyst (I ended up as a Morse interceptor instead, but it's still SIGINT).  There is a paragraph about how "huffduff" (HF/DF, high frequency radio direction finding) was used to locate U-66 and sink it.

Except that we now know that the Allies were reading all the messages being sent to and from U-66 at that time, and thus knew precisely where to find her.  The attribution of her sinking to HF/DF was a ruse to conceal the true nature of the information.  HF/DF is useful for locating a transmitter, of course, and it was is used extensively, but the facts are that even with the best equipment, the very nature of the ionosphere is that your fixes over oceanic distances will have a very large margin of error, often a hundred miles or more.  Knowing, on the other hand, that a u-boat is going to rendezvous at a particular grid square will narrow the search area from thousands or tens of thousands of square miles to down to a hundred or even just a few dozen square miles.

It's not that David Kahn did shoddy research, it's just that he wrote that book in 1967 and the revelations about the breaking of Enigma in WWII didn't start dribbling out until the early 1970's, and even then the information was often inaccurate in that it omitted a lot of stuff (like the contribution of the Poles).
 
2014-03-28 11:46:20 AM

ALL HAIL HYPNO-SCREEN

 
2014-03-28 11:56:22 AM

Valiente: "Oh, you must have heard the trick before!" "What trick?" asked von Neumann, "All I did was sum the infinite series."


If true, he probably just solved it the easy way, but he would also know it was an infinite series question, and snarkly said he derived the answer through the more intense method.
 
2014-03-28 12:06:08 PM

SordidEuphemism: Is this testing whether I'm a Replicant or a lesbian, Mr. Deckard?


just answer the questions
 
2014-03-28 01:11:11 PM

dittybopper: Perhaps even a better example is David Kahn's seminal book on the subject, "The Codebreakers". I read the first edition of it when I was a young teen, and it actually led me to want to become a cryptanalyst (I ended up as a Morse interceptor instead, but it's still SIGINT). There is a paragraph about how "huffduff" (HF/DF, high frequency radio direction finding) was used to locate U-66 and sink it.


dittybopper: It's not that David Kahn did shoddy research, it's just that he wrote that book in 1967 and the revelations about the breaking of Enigma in WWII didn't start dribbling out until the early 1970's, and even then the information was often inaccurate in that it omitted a lot of stuff (like the contribution of the Poles).


I get this (and I'm rather surprised there are still Morse interceptors who aren't George R.R. Martin lookalikes, like every ham guy I've ever met).

You can only present history to the level of what is permitted to be researched and there are still things our rulers have buried about WWII. I give the reaction toward James Bacque's Other Losses book as an example of how those who question the received history can expect to get piled on (note: I don't support his conclusions, but I sure recall the shellacking he got in the press and journals). Another example is John Lukacs' The Hitler of History; still another is the dodgy way the Japanese write their own "nobody was guilty" view of their role in aggression in China.

Regarding ENIGMA, I recall a little vaguely that Churchill let some events proceed despite knowing the outcome (which led inevitably to avoidable British deaths) in order to protect the cracking of the Enigma code secret (thanks, Polish analysts!). My personal interest in this story is that my late father was a British merchant seaman from 1941-52 and when the Germans added a fourth rotor to their naval Enigmas which led to a months-long "blackout" of U-boat decryption and a comeback of "the happy time".

Also why Dad didn't have war buddy reunions. There weren't enough war buddies.

So there's always going to be a limit to our knowledge and our ability to properly evaluate one-off savants like Turing. Only hyperbole is infinite.
 
2014-03-28 01:13:16 PM

dittybopper: Valiente: Those are tracts, not properly researched history.



Oh, by the way, I realize you are the rare exception of an amateur radio guy who doesn't resemble Wilfrid Brimley's older brother. You must stick out a bit at swap meets.
 
2014-03-28 01:20:46 PM

Valiente: Regarding ENIGMA, I recall a little vaguely that Churchill let some events proceed despite knowing the outcome (which led inevitably to avoidable British deaths) in order to protect the cracking of the Enigma code secret (thanks, Polish analysts!).


Actually, the British weren't all that reticent about using it for themselves.  They were, however, reticent about letting the Americans use it.

In fact, at times, they were rather reckless, to the point of actually tipping their hand to the Germans.   The action at Tarafal Bay is a perfect example of it, and it made Karl Doenitz suspect that the British were reading Naval Enigma.

This is a translation from the BdU war diary about that action:

     At 1256, U 67 reported:  "Nose buckled, bow-caps 1-3 out of action".  The boat was unable to effect repairs with the available materials, and was therefore ordered to return.  Both boats (U 67 and U 111), were instructed to give details of the meeting with the English boat, and of the last sighting of U 67.  U 68 also reported eventually requested replenishment of supplies from U 67 and suggested the right edge of grid EK 70, for this.  The fear therefore, that one of the German boats had been torpedoed by the English submarine, proved groundless.  It is more likely that our cypher material is compromised or that there has been a breach of security.  It appears improbable that an English submarine would be in such an isolated area by accident.  The Naval War Staff is therefore taking the necessary steps to safeguard cypher material.

BTW, part of the reason the three u-boats were in that bay was because one of the sailors caught VD from a French whore and needed a doctor who was on one of the other boats.

Moral of the story:  It's safer to polish the ol' torpedo by yourself.
 
2014-03-28 01:27:30 PM

Valiente: dittybopper: Valiente: Those are tracts, not properly researched history.


Oh, by the way, I realize you are the rare exception of an amateur radio guy who doesn't resemble Wilfrid Brimley's older brother. You must stick out a bit at swap meets.


Oh, I'm easy to spot at hamfests.  I'm the fat guy with a handheld on his belt.
 
2014-03-28 01:31:13 PM
In times of war, great sacrifices must be contemplated and occasionally made.

I would concur that the Brits peed over the fence of their own security interest more than once, but then these are the same minds that came up with "The Man Who Never Was"...and the Germans bought it. More importantly, it made them later suspect that real intelligence finds that came their way later were, in fact, clever ruses of the Mincemeat type.

Convincing one's enemy that one's actual order of battle is a feint: priceless. Better than an inflatable tank.
 
2014-03-28 02:28:48 PM
MSG NR 002 CK 209 0328 1827 BT
NOXXS EHDUR OTXWX AOOOI STASH  AOXHS ITXIX CINTE AOWET EPSNX 
EPUOS XXTNS EAEDR IAOVX TCMXA  RLXRT XOIPA TXNXX XSHEB YSRXT
ERRDT ATTTE DGUTX XLTNA XHXPH  XUIOO IIISA UDMEC OPXPR AKXED
XWXBE NIXHS XOERX THIEN TSRCT  RTSCC IEHTG SLOBE THIOW YFNUE
TXAKA XAHN
AR ARQSL IMI K
 
2014-03-28 05:17:46 PM
Until one looks like a parrot.
 
2014-03-28 06:08:33 PM

dittybopper: DoBeDoBeDo: dittybopper: Now that the joke is out of the way, much respect to Mr. Turing.  As a computer nerd and a SIGINT/crypto-weenie, there are two distinct areas where he's had an impact on my interests.

Buttsex and ?????


/Turing was crazy smart and treated like shiat

Yes, but in some ways, his reputation is more than reality.

He gets more credit for breaking Enigma than I think he actually deserves.  The principles for breaking it were actually derived by the Poles in the early 1930's while Turing was still an undergrad in Cambridge.  Turing merely built on the work of Rejewski, and he had help from a number of other brilliant but lesser-known people like Welchman.

Doesn't mean he didn't do vital work, but reading some tracts you'd get the impression that he broke Enigma all by himself.


Enigma was a side gig. Turing is correctly esteemed for his work in computer science and math. In particular, the Turing-Church thesis is right up their with Godel's Incompleteness Theory in terms of importance.

So, yeah, Turing absolutely deserves his rep.
 
2014-03-28 06:14:20 PM

Valiente: "Two bicyclists start twenty miles apart and head toward each other, each going at a steady rate of 10 mph. At the same time a fly that travels at a steady 15 mph starts from the front wheel of the southbound bicycle and flies to the front wheel of the northbound one, then turns around and flies to the front wheel of the southbound one again, and continues in this manner till he is crushed between the two front wheels. Question: what total distance did the fly cover? The slow way to find the answer is to calculate what distance the fly covers on the first, northbound, leg of the trip, then on the second, southbound, leg, then on the third, etc., etc., and, finally, to sum the infinite series so obtained. The quick way is to observe that the bicycles meet exactly one hour after their start, so that the fly had just an hour for his travels; the answer must therefore be 15 miles. When the question was put to von Neumann, he solved it in an instant, and thereby disappointed the questioner: "Oh, you must have heard the trick before!" "What trick?" asked von Neumann, "All I did was sum the infinite series."


My favorite Von Neuman anecdote is along the same lines. The question is how thick do you need to make a quarter in order to effectively turn it into a three sided die (in other words, where the probability of it ending up heads, tails, or edge are all 1/3). This is a fairly complex calculation. Once again, when the question was put to him, he was able to answer it immediately.

As with the prior example, many people do assume that VN must have already known the answer, but I prefer to believe that he really was just that quick.
 
2014-03-28 06:22:41 PM

Nurglitch: Can machines think?


Can planes fly?
Can submarines swim?
 
2014-03-28 06:42:42 PM

dittybopper: MSG NR 002 CK 209 0328 1827 BT
NOXXS EHDUR OTXWX AOOOI STASH  AOXHS ITXIX CINTE AOWET EPSNX 
EPUOS XXTNS EAEDR IAOVX TCMXA  RLXRT XOIPA TXNXX XSHEB YSRXT
ERRDT ATTTE DGUTX XLTNA XHXPH  XUIOO IIISA UDMEC OPXPR AKXED
XWXBE NIXHS XOERX THIEN TSRCT  RTSCC IEHTG SLOBE THIOW YFNUE
TXAKA XAHN
AR ARQSL IMI K


Lokks a lttle rudde.
 
2014-03-28 10:32:43 PM

Some 'Splainin' To Do: . This is a fairly complex calculation.


did he cheat and just find the aspect ratio or did he take into account stuff like angular momentum
 
2014-03-29 08:54:08 PM

Some 'Splainin' To Do: dittybopper: DoBeDoBeDo: dittybopper: Now that the joke is out of the way, much respect to Mr. Turing.  As a computer nerd and a SIGINT/crypto-weenie, there are two distinct areas where he's had an impact on my interests.

Buttsex and ?????


/Turing was crazy smart and treated like shiat

Yes, but in some ways, his reputation is more than reality.

He gets more credit for breaking Enigma than I think he actually deserves.  The principles for breaking it were actually derived by the Poles in the early 1930's while Turing was still an undergrad in Cambridge.  Turing merely built on the work of Rejewski, and he had help from a number of other brilliant but lesser-known people like Welchman.

Doesn't mean he didn't do vital work, but reading some tracts you'd get the impression that he broke Enigma all by himself.

Enigma was a side gig. Turing is correctly esteemed for his work in computer science and math. In particular, the Turing-Church thesis is right up their with Godel's Incompleteness Theory in terms of importance.

So, yeah, Turing absolutely deserves his rep.


Yeah, I acknowledged that part.
 
2014-03-29 08:55:29 PM

Valiente: dittybopper: MSG NR 002 CK 209 0328 1827 BT
NOXXS EHDUR OTXWX AOOOI STASH  AOXHS ITXIX CINTE AOWET EPSNX 
EPUOS XXTNS EAEDR IAOVX TCMXA  RLXRT XOIPA TXNXX XSHEB YSRXT
ERRDT ATTTE DGUTX XLTNA XHXPH  XUIOO IIISA UDMEC OPXPR AKXED
XWXBE NIXHS XOERX THIEN TSRCT  RTSCC IEHTG SLOBE THIOW YFNUE
TXAKA XAHN
AR ARQSL IMI K

Lokks a lttle rudde.


Oh, come on, didn't even make a stab at it?  The information you need is in my profile, and I'll give you a hint:  It's not Enigma.
 
Displayed 27 of 27 comments

View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


This thread is closed to new comments.

Continue Farking
Submit a Link »






Report