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(CNBC)   Wealth gap widened by new, improved $1 trillion student loan debt   (cnbc.com) divider line 113
    More: Scary, loan debt, United States, income gap, student loans, tone hole, loans, debts, students  
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3177 clicks; posted to Main » on 28 Mar 2014 at 3:19 AM (30 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-03-28 02:04:34 AM  
You can't rack up 150k in debt then want to take out 400k-500k (maybe for a condo in Glendale) for a home loan. You got rejected? I'm assuming the bank saw your salary, your debt, the money you want, and their computer shut itself down.
 
2014-03-28 03:27:23 AM  
Take a shot every

"not everyone should go to college" or "liberal arts"

Double shot for "french literature"
 
2014-03-28 03:33:21 AM  
You aint gettin that presumed value back. Guess you should have quoted a more realistic price. Turns out I didn't feel like subsidizing the athletic department
 
2014-03-28 03:36:00 AM  
FTFA: But, like the roughly 37 million others in the U.S. saddled with $1 trillion in student debt, they may never catch up with wealthy peers who began life after college free from the burden.


"Holy shiat you guys, I just realised it's better to start your career already wealthy!"
 
2014-03-28 03:36:12 AM  
i.imgur.com

GENTLEMENA toast:

Here's to creating a workforce so deep in debt, they can NEVER even consider quitting, no matter how badly we treat them, nor how severely we slash pay and conditions.

Oh man, remember those bad days when a worker could say "I quit"?  NOT ANYMORE!

Cheers.
 
2014-03-28 03:37:03 AM  
Glad I never accumalated any student loan debt, can definitely see where it hurts those that graduate and still owe large sums.

Then again I've known peole that graduated debt free or close to it without the aid of scholarships or financial aid, one couple I know got their degrees while having an ankle biter during the whole process. So for a lot of people I'm thinking its a beast of their own making due to some not so wise choices and decisions made while pursuing their degrees.
 
2014-03-28 03:41:13 AM  
If you have kids now and make less than 75k combined... do yourselves/everyone a favor and don't look at the private schools AT ALL. Depending on your state, state schools and community colleges really are going to have to be the answer if the wealth gap keeps widening; assuming, that is, conservative douchebags aren't successful in getting them shut down all together.

People biatch about New York but I gotta tell you, the SUNY system is way cheaper and a better education than a lot of other options within probably a couple of states distance.

If nothing else get the liberal arts undergrad junk out of the way (she says having really appreciated her meteorology/nutrition/economics classes) and then transfer to a better known school for the last two years...

Let me put it this way, if my sister wasn't squatting in the house we inherited and jointly own, I could pay my puny loans off the day after it was sold. And I'd have at least $10k left over.
 
2014-03-28 03:43:18 AM  

zerkalo: You aint gettin that presumed value back. Guess you should have quoted a more realistic price. Turns out I didn't feel like subsidizing the athletic department


Last I looked at the figures, most graduates do get a worthwhile return on their education. This is true even for BAs.

Which doesn't mean we shouldn't try to makd higher education more affordable.
 
2014-03-28 03:45:29 AM  
I am paying off 5k for personal/car loans a month I'm so sick of them.

I'll be 50k down and nothing to show for it. Well, really really nice teeth. thats it.

Never getting a loan again. except for an investment property.
 
2014-03-28 03:47:12 AM  
Where did all that money go, exactly? A trillion was spent on...what?
 
2014-03-28 03:49:46 AM  
This is indentured servitude for the 21st century. I have a small amount of debt by comparison and I've been paying it for a decade with another decade left.
 
2014-03-28 03:50:10 AM  
I can't think of a better way to bring tuition costs under control than for the federal government to get even more involved in subsidizing student loans. Their underwriting of credit for otherwise un-creditworthy applicants has never before resulted in inflationary conditions. Maybe next they could move to guarantee home loans to low income buyers. We need the federal government to become more involved in such matters because they always do such a superb job, and because it's their duty per the Rights to Free Stuff clause of the Constitution.
 
2014-03-28 03:52:14 AM  
And here's me all outraged that the winter games were a huge waste of money. Ha.
 
2014-03-28 03:52:51 AM  

dangelder: Where did all that money go, exactly? A trillion was spent on...what?


Service guarantees citizenship.  Would you like to know more?
 
2014-03-28 03:53:04 AM  
Haha! Freest country in the world. Yeah. Increasing the cost of education in the United States? A perfect way to keep us free, and "the best in the world."
 
2014-03-28 04:00:29 AM  
Easy way to fix this restore the ability to discharge student loans in bankruptcy.     give it enough condition to make it so you can't graduate college and immediately dump the loans  but they should be discharge-able.


Also give more ways for students to get their loans forgiven early and eliminate useless and outdated degrees.
 
2014-03-28 04:02:39 AM  
I love to tell today's yutes about what it was like back in my day, before Reagan ditched it all.

Five years of college, full-time, and I ended up $1500 dollars in debt, which I didn't really *have* to borrow, but it was a convenient buffer in my last year of school, so I could cut back on work hours a bit.

Low tuitions (free in some states at state schools), Basic Educational Opportunity Grants, lots of scholarship money laying around (since colleges were subsidized, they could put donations toward scholarship funds), and low student loan rates....

Yup. We were able to do that at one time.
 
2014-03-28 04:09:08 AM  
I don't see what the big deal is, I mean rich people are doing better than ever and they're the only ones who matter. Just ask Congress.
 
2014-03-28 04:14:10 AM  

F22raptom: I am paying off 5k for personal/car loans a month I'm so sick of them.

I'll be 50k down and nothing to show for it. Well, really really nice teeth. thats it.

Never getting a loan again. except for an investment property.


All loans are bad because you bought cars and cosmetics you couldn't afford?

Interdasting.
 
2014-03-28 04:14:53 AM  

grimlock1972: Easy way to fix this restore the ability to discharge student loans in bankruptcy.     give it enough condition to make it so you can't graduate college and immediately dump the loans  but they should be discharge-able.


Also give more ways for students to get their loans forgiven early and eliminate useless and outdated degrees.


Yes.

And then all the prospective employers run a credit check on you, find out you're scum, and refuse to hire you.
 
2014-03-28 04:24:48 AM  

Smackledorfer: zerkalo: You aint gettin that presumed value back. Guess you should have quoted a more realistic price. Turns out I didn't feel like subsidizing the athletic department

Last I looked at the figures, most graduates do get a worthwhile return on their education. This is true even for BAs.

Which doesn't mean we shouldn't try to makd higher education more affordable.


When is the last time you looked? Just about the only ones this holds true for are the science/engineering majors. For the business majors, there's no job guarantee. In the 12 years between starting my first degree and going back for my second, UCF more than doubled its tuition and fees.

Thank dog I had the sense to work my way through.. I was too rich for the Pell grant and born too early for the Bright Futures Scholarship.
 
2014-03-28 04:28:41 AM  

Lenny_da_Hog: grimlock1972: Easy way to fix this restore the ability to discharge student loans in bankruptcy.     give it enough condition to make it so you can't graduate college and immediately dump the loans  but they should be discharge-able.


Also give more ways for students to get their loans forgiven early and eliminate useless and outdated degrees.

Yes.

And then all the prospective employers run a credit check on you, find out you're scum, and refuse to hire you.


Well when everyone is doing it that will become common enough employers will have to take the time to ask why you filed your bankruptcy (or even make a new bankruptcy filing for the student loans).


A better solution would be that degrees whoch don't involve expensive labs and equipment not be ridiculously expensive. A BA student should not be subsidizing the sports department or whatever toys the physics grad students are playing with.

A professor teaching four hours a week of law to a class of thirty is getting paid under six figures and only requires a couple thousand square feet. Why are the students collectively charged twenty times that to hear him lecture? This is even more ridiculous in the age of the internet. One professor and a few TAs could teach hundreds of students from a webcam.

Even the professors are getting screwed in this scenario. The dean needs his raise and the lacross team needs a new field though right?
 
2014-03-28 04:31:12 AM  
We've perpetuated a culture that insists that a "four year college education" is the only way to exist.

Most kids don't know the secret to getting into good schools: go to a local community college for two years, pay next to nothing, get good grades - then apply as a transfer student to the university from which you want to get a degree..

For-profit pseudo-universities prey on kids who don't know that they have options. Those "graduates" leave school with a second rate degree and crippling debt. No job is going to pay a salary commensurate with their debt.

Also, don't study 15th century Latin-speaking poets who shiat unicorn blood. Try the basics, like math, engineering, or human-computer interaction design. By that, I mean useful shiat.
 
2014-03-28 04:35:25 AM  

Cerebral Ballsy: Smackledorfer: zerkalo: You aint gettin that presumed value back. Guess you should have quoted a more realistic price. Turns out I didn't feel like subsidizing the athletic department

Last I looked at the figures, most graduates do get a worthwhile return on their education. This is true even for BAs.

Which doesn't mean we shouldn't try to makd higher education more affordable.

When is the last time you looked? Just about the only ones this holds true for are the science/engineering majors. For the business majors, there's no job guarantee. In the 12 years between starting my first degree and going back for my second, UCF more than doubled its tuition and fees.

Thank dog I had the sense to work my way through.. I was too rich for the Pell grant and born too early for the Bright Futures Scholarship.


Within the last year I remember linking up to date numbers comparing average salaries (both mean and median) of graduates to those with a high school education and comparing that to in state tuition estimates.

Obviously these breakdowns can never perfectly account for those currently attending school as they haven't entered the market yet. Nor can they rule out people whose motivation leads them to get a degree which may not help them but whose same motivation still nets them a decent job.
 
2014-03-28 04:36:50 AM  

Cerebral Ballsy: Smackledorfer: zerkalo: You aint gettin that presumed value back. Guess you should have quoted a more realistic price. Turns out I didn't feel like subsidizing the athletic department

Last I looked at the figures, most graduates do get a worthwhile return on their education. This is true even for BAs.

Which doesn't mean we shouldn't try to makd higher education more affordable.

When is the last time you looked? Just about the only ones this holds true for are the science/engineering majors. For the business majors, there's no job guarantee. In the 12 years between starting my first degree and going back for my second, UCF more than doubled its tuition and fees.

Thank dog I had the sense to work my way through.. I was too rich for the Pell grant and born too early for the Bright Futures Scholarship.


Science majors aren't guaranteed jobs either.

nickdaisy: Stop sucking Cheney's cock so much. We get it, you're gay.
 
2014-03-28 04:38:32 AM  

ksmith059: We've perpetuated a culture that insists that a "four year college education" is the only way to exist.

Most kids don't know the secret to getting into good schools: go to a local community college for two years, pay next to nothing, get good grades - then apply as a transfer student to the university from which you want to get a degree..

For-profit pseudo-universities prey on kids who don't know that they have options. Those "graduates" leave school with a second rate degree and crippling debt. No job is going to pay a salary commensurate with their debt.

Also, don't study 15th century Latin-speaking poets who shiat unicorn blood. Try the basics, like math, engineering, or human-computer interaction design. By that, I mean useful shiat.


Would it even matter? There are finite jobs within all those career paths. Blaming the underwater basketweavers won't change that. Doubling the computer, science and math folks won't change much other than lower those salaries accordingly. Demand is the issue here.
 
2014-03-28 04:39:56 AM  
Grandpa went to the school of hard knocks.
Dad sold the gear for books.
Challenge upward
 
2014-03-28 04:41:54 AM  
Right now, unless you can get a free ivy league or similar education, it's not worth it. College has become a cash cow with little regard for the student's future.  You don't need a formal education to succeed, nor get married to be happy, nor have children to feel fulfilled. All of these things are just what sheeple think that life is about because that's what they have been told.
 
2014-03-28 04:46:48 AM  

ksmith059: We've perpetuated a culture that insists that a "four year college education" is the only way to exist.

Most kids don't know the secret to getting into good schools: go to a local community college for two years, pay next to nothing, get good grades - then apply as a transfer student to the university from which you want to get a degree..

For-profit pseudo-universities prey on kids who don't know that they have options. Those "graduates" leave school with a second rate degree and crippling debt. No job is going to pay a salary commensurate with their debt.

Also, don't study 15th century Latin-speaking poets who shiat unicorn blood. Try the basics, like math, engineering, or human-computer interaction design. By that, I mean useful shiat.


Or, how about a better idea:

We raise the taxes on the upper class back to what they were before Reagan, adjust our spending so we can go back to subsidizing universities, stop the attack on high school curriculum so that people don't have to go to college just to unlearn all the bullshiat they're being taught.

I have a lot of younger friends going to community colleges learning what I learned in high school (in a working class school district, nothing fancy), and having to pay tuition for it.

Then, we dump the stigma on non-vocational education and let anyone with academic prowess get an education, and put the onus back on corporations to train people for non-technical/non-engineering tasks. That gives us a better-educated populace, more educated people bringing creativity to problem-solving in the workplace, better voters with a better understanding of issues.

College shouldn't have to be vocational school only for the benefit of corporations. The purpose of going to college should have to be solely to bring them wealth -- it should be for personal growth as well.
 
2014-03-28 04:52:35 AM  

ksmith059: We've perpetuated a culture that insists that a "four year college education" is the only way to exist.

Most kids don't know the secret to getting into good schools: go to a local community college for two years, pay next to nothing, get good grades - then apply as a transfer student to the university from which you want to get a degree..

For-profit pseudo-universities prey on kids who don't know that they have options. Those "graduates" leave school with a second rate degree and crippling debt. No job is going to pay a salary commensurate with their debt.

Also, don't study 15th century Latin-speaking poets who shiat unicorn blood. Try the basics, like math, engineering, or human-computer interaction design. By that, I mean useful shiat.


Yeah community college should be the first option, but most kids don't want to stay with mom and dad when they graduate HS.
 
2014-03-28 04:57:38 AM  
Not everyone should go to college for a liberal arts degree in French literature.
 
2014-03-28 05:00:48 AM  
 
2014-03-28 05:05:27 AM  

picturescrazy: Not everyone should go to college for a liberal arts degree in French literature.


Not everyone *can* go to college for a liberal arts degree in French literature.

And not everyone can be an engineer or programmer.

That liberal arts degree will make for a much better purchasing agent, though. With a little training, a person with a history degree will make for great project management support. There are hundreds of desk jobs in engineering and industry for which there are no specific degree fields, but college-educated people have learned how to think and solve problems within a systematic environment, regardless of their degree field, and are much easier to train.

That was the model for business for a long, long time, and it worked out just fine.
 
2014-03-28 05:07:59 AM  
It's sad how everyone was forced to go to college. And no one told them that it would cost money. Then the jobs they were guaranteed didn't come through.

didir?
 
2014-03-28 05:18:17 AM  
And who want's more people to go to college?  Thanks Obama!
 
2014-03-28 05:20:32 AM  

ksmith059: Also, don't study 15th century Latin-speaking poets who shiat unicorn blood. Try the basics, like math, engineering, or human-computer interaction design. By that, I mean useful shiat.


Another thing to know, is that if everyone is telling everyone to get the same education and try to find jobs in the same limited fields, that is probably not a good idea, whether it is an overemphasis on STEM now, the surge of MBAs/lawyers a few years back, or IT before that.


Having to lots of competition to get your first job sucks, particularly if you are now on a career path you aren't really all that keen on and that wouldn't have been your first choice.
 
2014-03-28 05:32:38 AM  

Lenny_da_Hog: picturescrazy: Not everyone should go to college for a liberal arts degree in French literature.

Not everyone *can* go to college for a liberal arts degree in French literature.

And not everyone can be an engineer or programmer.

That liberal arts degree will make for a much better purchasing agent, though. With a little training, a person with a history degree will make for great project management support. There are hundreds of desk jobs in engineering and industry for which there are no specific degree fields, but college-educated people have learned how to think and solve problems within a systematic environment, regardless of their degree field, and are much easier to train.

That was the model for business for a long, long time, and it worked out just fine.

 
2014-03-28 05:34:30 AM  

ksmith059: Lenny_da_Hog: picturescrazy: Not everyone should go to college for a liberal arts degree in French literature.

Not everyone *can* go to college for a liberal arts degree in French literature.

And not everyone can be an engineer or programmer.

That liberal arts degree will make for a much better purchasing agent, though. With a little training, a person with a history degree will make for great project management support. There are hundreds of desk jobs in engineering and industry for which there are no specific degree fields, but college-educated people have learned how to think and solve problems within a systematic environment, regardless of their degree field, and are much easier to train.

That was the model for business for a long, long time, and it worked out just fine.


THIS. So totally this. Not everyone can be a rocket surgeon or a brain engineer.
 
2014-03-28 05:34:49 AM  
In some ways, being a dropout worked out well for me, but only because I did it exactly when you could make that into an IT career.  I did two and a half semesters at UVa, and spent a good bit of it (and most of the summer between) tinkering with my Unix account in the computer labs, learning how the Internet worked, and doing freelance computer work for customers of the campus computer shop I worked at (with their permission).  I picked up enough that when I dropped out I was able to get a job at a local ISP, and then I job-hopped for the next few years until I ended up with a job as a full-time Linux admin.  Then the bottom fell out due to the dot-com crash and 9/11, but I worked shiatty retail jobs until I could get back on the IT ladder in 2004 and worked my way back up.

In the meantime I was carrying my student loan debt till after I got married (by which time it was long since defaulted), but that solid grip back on the ladder let me finally start paying it off and once I got serious it didn't take long at all.  That's where I got lucky -- if I'd stuck it out, say, another two years and then had to drop out, I'd have had several times the debt, barely entry-level if any IT experience in a market where those opportunities were already starting to disappear, most of a degree that really wasn't going to do me much good (a bachelor's in Astronomy/Physics qualifies you for nothing at all in astronomy and not much in Physics), and no job prospects otherwise.

I read an interview with jwz (who became a programmer in kind of the same way I became an IT engineer) in Coders at Work where the interviewer asked him how aspiring programmers coming up in high school and college could repeat his career path, and he basically said "I don't think they could do it the way I did it, too much has changed and the informal opportunities that I had in those days just don't exist any more like they did then".  Which is true for me as well -- local ISPs basically don't exist any more like they did 20 years ago.  (Man, I miss those days -- the pay was shiatty but in some ways that was the most freedom I ever had.)

I'm basically assuming that my kids are going to have to have college degrees to work a job that doesn't involve running a register, and planning to pay for all of it if I can so they don't have to take out loans.  And having gone to college, which neither of my parents did, and seen how things worked out for various friends who did it various ways, I feel like I can advise them more realistically than my parents who never went to college (and neither did most of their friends) were able to advise me.  But if things go wrong and college isn't an option for them for some reason, I don't know what the fark the backup plan will be.
 
2014-03-28 05:38:40 AM  
Who would have thought those classes on gender studies and Miley Cyrus would never pay off?
 
2014-03-28 05:43:50 AM  

Lenny_da_Hog: picturescrazy: Not everyone should go to college for a liberal arts degree in French literature.

Not everyone *can* go to college for a liberal arts degree in French literature.

And not everyone can be an engineer or programmer.

That liberal arts degree will make for a much better purchasing agent, though. With a little training, a person with a history degree will make for great project management support. There are hundreds of desk jobs in engineering and industry for which there are no specific degree fields, but college-educated people have learned how to think and solve problems within a systematic environment, regardless of their degree field, and are much easier to train.

That was the model for business for a long, long time, and it worked out just fine.


I don't disagree with you but I would like to point you towards the top of the thread so you can see your response to me may have been too serious.
 
2014-03-28 05:45:40 AM  

picturescrazy: Lenny_da_Hog: picturescrazy: Not everyone should go to college for a liberal arts degree in French literature.

Not everyone *can* go to college for a liberal arts degree in French literature.

And not everyone can be an engineer or programmer.

That liberal arts degree will make for a much better purchasing agent, though. With a little training, a person with a history degree will make for great project management support. There are hundreds of desk jobs in engineering and industry for which there are no specific degree fields, but college-educated people have learned how to think and solve problems within a systematic environment, regardless of their degree field, and are much easier to train.

That was the model for business for a long, long time, and it worked out just fine.

I don't disagree with you but I would like to point you towards the top of the thread so you can see your response to me may have been too serious.


It's only Fark. You just opened a door to a random thought I could rant about.
 
2014-03-28 05:46:55 AM  

Smackledorfer: ksmith059: We've perpetuated a culture that insists that a "four year college education" is the only way to exist.

Most kids don't know the secret to getting into good schools: go to a local community college for two years, pay next to nothing, get good grades - then apply as a transfer student to the university from which you want to get a degree..

For-profit pseudo-universities prey on kids who don't know that they have options. Those "graduates" leave school with a second rate degree and crippling debt. No job is going to pay a salary commensurate with their debt.

Also, don't study 15th century Latin-speaking poets who shiat unicorn blood. Try the basics, like math, engineering, or human-computer interaction design. By that, I mean useful shiat.

Would it even matter? There are finite jobs within all those career paths. Blaming the underwater basketweavers won't change that. Doubling the computer, science and math folks won't change much other than lower those salaries accordingly. Demand is the issue here.


Not blaming the underwater basketweavers either - I was one of them. Graphic Design ;)

I went from typography, print  and web design into interaction design (after many years of designing websites and apps, now they call it "interaction" design).  I evolved thanks to my fundamental training in design. Liberal arts degrees are useful, but anybody that wants to get into app design or anything related should look into HCI degree programs.
 
2014-03-28 05:48:45 AM  
This is why I've always leaned towards the military option, and will for my kids when it comes time as well.  While the competition is there, if you're smart enough to get into most state schools you can score a ROTC scholarship, and if you're fancy private school smart you can get into one of the service academies.

If you're not smart or come from a less wealthy family, serving 3-4 years and using your GI Bill benefits is a great option too, just join the Navy or the Air Force so you're less likely to get shot at or blown up in a convoy in Afghanistan.

I personally went to the Naval Academy and am halfway through my MBA, paid 100% and 75% by the government, at the cost of time served on the back end.  The main thing is the fact that I have zero college debt compared to most of my peers from high school
 
2014-03-28 05:49:38 AM  

xria: Another thing to know, is that if everyone is telling everyone to get the same education and try to find jobs in the same limited fields, that is probably not a good idea, whether it is an overemphasis on STEM now, the surge of MBAs/lawyers a few years back, or IT before that.

Having to lots of competition to get your first job sucks, particularly if you are now on a career path you aren't really all that keen on and that wouldn't have been your first choice.


Oh yeah.  That dot-com bubble was really starting to inflate by about 1996 or so.  Lots of kids started college in '96 or '97 majoring in CS or other IT-related degrees.  And then they graduated right into the middle of the crash.  There were a lot of articles around then about people just throwing their hands up and giving up on IT as a career altogether because the high-end jobs were saturated with recently-laid-off IT pros and the low-end jobs were saturated by recent college grads.

The moral of that story is, if you're picking your major based on job prospects, don't chase what's hot now, look a few years down the road.  Especially pay attention to skilled careers that have chronic staff shortages, like nursing (eldercare especially is getting big lately).
 
2014-03-28 05:58:51 AM  

duffman13: This is why I've always leaned towards the military option, and will for my kids when it comes time as well.  While the competition is there, if you're smart enough to get into most state schools you can score a ROTC scholarship, and if you're fancy private school smart you can get into one of the service academies.

If you're not smart or come from a less wealthy family, serving 3-4 years and using your GI Bill benefits is a great option too, just join the Navy or the Air Force so you're less likely to get shot at or blown up in a convoy in Afghanistan.

I personally went to the Naval Academy and am halfway through my MBA, paid 100% and 75% by the government, at the cost of time served on the back end.  The main thing is the fact that I have zero college debt compared to most of my peers from high school


Great option if you don't have a hint of disability or medical shortcomings of any kind.
 
2014-03-28 05:58:59 AM  
I went to college. It was a really good state school, and truth be told I enjoyed it. I got 1 1/2 degrees (a BA and an unrelated AS) out of it, and after four years I walked away with under $10k in debt. I know I did better than some of my peers who have over $30k each in debt, but I'll be damned if I don't hate paying that amount.

All that being said, education is becoming ridiculously expensive, and tuition is always being raised--mostly because states are continually using higher education as a punching bag when revenue is shorter than expected.
 
2014-03-28 06:05:16 AM  

Lenny_da_Hog: duffman13: This is why I've always leaned towards the military option, and will for my kids when it comes time as well.  While the competition is there, if you're smart enough to get into most state schools you can score a ROTC scholarship, and if you're fancy private school smart you can get into one of the service academies.

If you're not smart or come from a less wealthy family, serving 3-4 years and using your GI Bill benefits is a great option too, just join the Navy or the Air Force so you're less likely to get shot at or blown up in a convoy in Afghanistan.

I personally went to the Naval Academy and am halfway through my MBA, paid 100% and 75% by the government, at the cost of time served on the back end.  The main thing is the fact that I have zero college debt compared to most of my peers from high school

Great option if you don't have a hint of disability or medical shortcomings of any kind.


Indeed. With so many people applying to the military and no budget available to hire them, it seems the services are looking for any excuse to turn down applicants. Hang nails, restless leg syndrome, dry skin--all seem to be viable reasons for the military to say "no."

I was preparing the paperwork to apply for Navy OCS a couple years ago, but I have a few medical problems that would have required medical waivers. So there went the idea of me in a uniform.
 
2014-03-28 06:06:27 AM  

Lenny_da_Hog: ksmith059: We've perpetuated a culture that insists that a "four year college education" is the only way to exist.

Most kids don't know the secret to getting into good schools: go to a local community college for two years, pay next to nothing, get good grades - then apply as a transfer student to the university from which you want to get a degree..

For-profit pseudo-universities prey on kids who don't know that they have options. Those "graduates" leave school with a second rate degree and crippling debt. No job is going to pay a salary commensurate with their debt.

Also, don't study 15th century Latin-speaking poets who shiat unicorn blood. Try the basics, like math, engineering, or human-computer interaction design. By that, I mean useful shiat.

Or, how about a better idea:

We raise the taxes on the upper class back to what they were before Reagan, adjust our spending so we can go back to subsidizing universities, stop the attack on high school curriculum so that people don't have to go to college just to unlearn all the bullshiat they're being taught.

I have a lot of younger friends going to community colleges learning what I learned in high school (in a working class school district, nothing fancy), and having to pay tuition for it.

Then, we dump the stigma on non-vocational education and let anyone with academic prowess get an education, and put the onus back on corporations to train people for non-technical/non-engineering tasks. That gives us a better-educated populace, more educated people bringing creativity to problem-solving in the workplace, better voters with a better understanding of issues.

College shouldn't have to be vocational school only for the benefit of corporations. The purpose of going to college should have to be solely to bring them wealth -- it should be for personal growth as well.


I went to college. I have no student loans. I didn't go to a crappy university, I just worked my ass off to pay the portion of the $40k/year that wasn't covered by scholarships. I learned more in college about budgeting and how to make a dollar scream...

Also, look at the German school system. It works, and it's sustained by taxes. Germans pay waaaay more taxes that we do. Do you want to pay more taxes to have a German-modeled educational system? I totally would! And I don't have children of my own.

First. In Germany - Not everyone goes to college. They have three tracks after grade school - Hauptschule (training for trades like mechanics, labor and such - with real world training/apprenticeships after graduation), Realschule (education and training for trades like shopkeeper, retail sales, administrative work like bank teller, etc - also with apprenticeships after graduation), and Gymnasium (preparation for university - after graduation is university. Just four more years of education and theory, and then after that? Apprenticeships!) This system trains everyone to have a job.
 
2014-03-28 06:13:19 AM  

maram500: I went to college. It was a really good state school, and truth be told I enjoyed it. I got 1 1/2 degrees (a BA and an unrelated AS) out of it, and after four years I walked away with under $10k in debt. I know I did better than some of my peers who have over $30k each in debt, but I'll be damned if I don't hate paying that amount.

All that being said, education is becoming ridiculously expensive, and tuition is always being raised--mostly because states are continually using higher education as a punching bag when revenue is shorter than expected.


Reagan set the standard for that, too. The whole California anti-intellectual movement that started the nationwide trend started with his war on Berkeley. Best punching bag, ever.

Could you believe that the government wanting to kill college students would make them want to protest? That's what the students claimed. Reagan knew it was just because they were lazy, uppity elitists and the gubmint shouldn't be subsidizing their education.

He ended the free tuition program in California and used that argument to get backing -- From $0 in the 1960s, it's now close to $13K/year just for tuition. Then he did the same as president nationwide.

It's hard to remember, but it's true -- Americans used to be proud of their education system and proud when their kids got degrees.
 
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