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(SFGate)   Parents, if you're trying to help your children with their homework, stop it. You're not helping   (blog.sfgate.com) divider line 85
    More: Interesting, homework, parental involvement, test scores, helping  
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5677 clicks; posted to Main » on 27 Mar 2014 at 11:11 PM (25 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-03-27 07:58:29 PM
I imagine that it depends on how you help.  If you're doing the problems for your child, no you aren't.  But if you're discussing concepts, I don't see the problem.
 
2014-03-27 08:24:24 PM
As the parent of an eight year old and a ten year old, I could've used this article about FIVE FREAKIN' YEARS AGO.
 
2014-03-27 08:55:52 PM

gnosis301: I imagine that it depends on how you help.  If you're doing the problems for your child, no you aren't.  But if you're discussing concepts, I don't see the problem.


This.
 
2014-03-27 09:23:26 PM
All parents should be like Calvin's Dad.
 
2014-03-27 09:45:41 PM
I helped my mom with her college homework when I was in high school.
 
2014-03-27 09:58:27 PM

doglover: All parents should be like Calvin's Dad.


My children may still believe that color wasn't invented until the 1930's.
 
2014-03-27 11:06:15 PM

Demetrius: doglover: All parents should be like Calvin's Dad.

My children may still believe that color wasn't invented until the 1930's.


Your children are humoring you until the decide which nursing home to abandon your obviously demented brain.
 
2014-03-27 11:14:57 PM
Is it because the parents are getting the answers wrong?
 
2014-03-27 11:19:31 PM
I don't know how they did the study, but it could be another failure of causation:  the kids that aren't as good at schoolwork "need" more help from parents, while the ones who find it easy don't get help because they don't need it.
 
2014-03-27 11:21:54 PM

gnosis301: I imagine that it depends on how you help.  If you're doing the problems for your child, no you aren't.  But if you're discussing concepts, I don't see the problem.


Except when the concepts are different from how the teacher teaches it.  Teachers don't like "This is how Mom learned it in school"
 
2014-03-27 11:21:55 PM

wxboy: Is it because the parents are getting the answers wrong?


Is our parents learning?
 
2014-03-27 11:23:58 PM
It was my understanding that a child's education was the responsibility of both the school and the parents.  Well at least that is how I and most of the parents I know feel about it.  Seems like a way out for parents who 'Ain't got time for that'.
 
2014-03-27 11:26:13 PM

Aar1012: wxboy: Is it because the parents are getting the answers wrong?

Is our parents learning?


Hehehe
 
2014-03-27 11:26:26 PM
I taught my kids how to appropriately roll the toilet paper to maximize length when you tp a house at halloween

WINNING
 
2014-03-27 11:28:21 PM

12349876: gnosis301: I imagine that it depends on how you help.  If you're doing the problems for your child, no you aren't.  But if you're discussing concepts, I don't see the problem.

Except when the concepts are different from how the teacher teaches it.  Teachers don't like "This is how Mom learned it in school"


If the teacher has an issue with the parents teaching method, then they can contact the parents and explain how they are doing it so everyone is on the same track.  All the homework I have seen from my daughter had instructions that I could read to keep pace with what she was learning.  If it was something I did not understand then I contacted the teacher for clarification so I could help in the future.
 
2014-03-27 11:29:48 PM
I have an alternative hypothesis.  The smart kids never need any tutoring from the parents.  The not so bright do.  Perhaps it isn't that the parental tutoring is hurting performance, but the kids were just more stupid than their peers to begin with.
 
2014-03-27 11:29:49 PM
If your child has you doing his/her homework, then congratulations. You have a manager in the making. Sure, he/she won't be "the talent" at work, but he/she will manage "the talent. Don't worry that they can't do the homework alone, it's enough that they know it needs to be done...even if by someone else.
 
2014-03-27 11:31:19 PM

12349876: gnosis301: I imagine that it depends on how you help.  If you're doing the problems for your child, no you aren't.  But if you're discussing concepts, I don't see the problem.

Except when the concepts are different from how the teacher teaches it.  Teachers don't like "This is how Mom learned it in school"


Exactly. When I was in school we had to show every bit of work (even things like our long division of 36 by 12, or adding 111 and 222) and if it wasn't exactly how they were teaching us to do it, it was wrong, even with a correct answer.
 
2014-03-27 11:32:28 PM

gnosis301: I imagine that it depends on how you help.  If you're doing the problems for your child, no you aren't.  But if you're discussing concepts, I don't see the problem.


This. That's exactly how I help my kids. I flat-out refuse to give them the answer, but I'll discuss the concepts and the process of solving the problem as much as they want.
 
2014-03-27 11:34:29 PM
The issues I see with it come from parents having too much knowledge of the subject. They do not remember the difficulty of learning 5 time 10 is fifty they know it in less than a second. Here is where peer instruction and Hagans strategies become useful. What a good teacher does is record the lecture so it can be played repeatedly at the students leisure. Then you have them answer the questions in class discuss in groups and then answer again. It forces kids to do the heavy lifting with others who understand the obstacles
 
2014-03-27 11:35:18 PM
Needs the obvious tag
 
2014-03-27 11:38:17 PM

Omahawg: I taught my kids how to appropriately roll the toilet paper to maximize length when you tp a house at halloween

WINNING


My kids disturbingly amusing when I mentioned how cherry bombs flushed down a toilet will douche everyone with poo water in any adjacent bathrooms or stalls and wreck the plumbing which... I don't know where I'm going with this, but there's that.

My oldest daugher's first question: Where do you even get cherry bombs? Aren't those illegal?

I said: Duh. Yea they are. Have to get them in Mexi... er... I don't think you can get them. They're illegal.

/lawn
 
2014-03-27 11:39:34 PM

ElLoco: My kids * disturbingly amusing


*found it*

Was talking to the wife and she remembered that. Got distracted. :/
 
2014-03-27 11:39:48 PM
My nephew was royally P.O.'ed that I wouldn't just tell him the answers like his parents.

This is how you can tell I was a teacher and they never were.
 
2014-03-27 11:40:34 PM
Children of parents who set high expectations and then stepped back perform better than those whose parents stayed up all night building a biatchin' baking soda volcano.
 
2014-03-27 11:41:35 PM

gnosis301: I imagine that it depends on how you help.  If you're doing the problems for your child, no you aren't.  But if you're discussing concepts, I don't see the problem.


My father tried to explain algebra to me once.  Three hours and I didn't get it.

When the actual teacher explained it I picked it up in about a minute and spent the rest of the class bored.  Basic calculus (essentially cal 1) I picked up in an hour watching one of those old instructional videos (literally, on VHS) and then spent the entire actual class bored.

What I'm saying here is that even a parent that knows things may not have the same skill at imparting it as the actual teachers, institutions, and materials used in primary and secondary instruction.  There is an actual technique involved in teaching pre-secondary kids, you can't just throw out your knowledge and expect 'em to pick it up until late high school at the earliest.  It's more like training than providing information.

Albeit, I'm in the "feel free to try, it can't hurt" camp on this one.  Even if you fail to actually impart your knowledge to your kid, you're still spending time with them over a shared interest (well, for a certain value of "interest" depending on the kid) and frankly if you screw it up any teacher is willing to correct any misconceptions you may have introduced without being upset about it (short of you teaching your kid that black people are inferior or to kill the Jews or whatever).  Just expressing interest even is good for a child, as annoyed as I get by folks that overdo it and go helicopter I reserve my actual  hatred for the parents that don't even try.
 
2014-03-27 11:41:39 PM
I shouldn't have to help them. Isn't what the teachers get paid for?
/occasionally help.
 
2014-03-27 11:42:38 PM
I find the comments from the parents here determined to be involved proof the article is valid.
 
2014-03-27 11:47:37 PM
FTFA: "be born rich"

/so sue me. I paraphrased.
 
2014-03-27 11:50:36 PM

Happy Father: The issues I see with it come from parents having too much knowledge of the subject. They do not remember the difficulty of learning 5 time 10 is fifty they know it in less than a second. Here is where peer instruction and Hagans strategies become useful. What a good teacher does is record the lecture so it can be played repeatedly at the students leisure. Then you have them answer the questions in class discuss in groups and then answer again. It forces kids to do the heavy lifting with others who understand the obstacles


Can't help but be reminded of that thread the other day where the dad answered his kids logic question about subtraction with the answer to the subtraction example, and not the actual logic question being asked.

And the guy bragged he was an engineer.
 
2014-03-27 11:52:46 PM
Show me some proof that homework is beneficial in the first place.
 
2014-03-27 11:54:40 PM
In elementary school I was crap at math but good at everything else.  My father forced me to memorize the multiplication tables.  It was the only thing he ever made me do under duress.  At the time it felt like terrible oppression and I put up a lot of resistance.  In retrospect, it saved my ass.
 
2014-03-27 11:59:06 PM
Well, I messed up royally with my oldest kid. First I taught her how to write her name, wrong (hint: it's NOT all caps)then I let the neighbor kid teach her cursive (kindergarten is too soon). I am not the parent who gives the answer, so I have that going for me. Also, and the daughter of an engineer I understand the beauty of the short simple answer! I never could figure out why 2+2= hour long lecture about the many ways you can check the answer to make sure it's right.
 
2014-03-28 12:01:48 AM
Article is BS.  I've had to go to the school and correct the teachers on multiple occasions.

Just yesterday my seventh-grader's science teacher told them they could only taste sweet flavors with the tip of the tongue and all that other insane, easily disprovable "tongue map" stuff that was debunked years ago.  Of course, she knew he was wrong because she'd been watching Alton Brown and he's much more believable...

Yes, of course, the kids won't get it if you don't know how to help them.  No, of course you shouldn't just do the work for them.  But if you actually know how to teach the subject (possibly better than their teachers) you'd be remiss not to educate them.
 
2014-03-28 12:04:12 AM
The only help my mother (single parent household ftw!) gave me with homework was making damned sure that I did it every day before anything else got done.

Oh, and she refused to let me type my own research papers on the typewriter--which screwed me over until the ninth grade, which was when we got our first computer that was worth a sh*t.
 
2014-03-28 12:08:24 AM
I knew I was on my own when I went to my liberal arts parents with a ninth grade chemistry question and got the classic jack rabbit caught in the headlights of a semi look in reply to a question regarding the difference between molal and molar solutions. We had a disagreement about which direction north was and I brought a compass over and when they found out it disagreed with them they informed me it was wrong so I know the only place in the entire universe where one pf the five forces doesn't work.
 
2014-03-28 12:12:44 AM
http://www.hup.harvard.edu/catalog.php?isbn=9780674725102">http://www .hup.harvard.edu/catalog.php?isbn=9780674725102
Da book of da study.
A sentence of da summary.
"The study's surprising discovery is that no clear connection exists between parental involvement and improved student performance. "
Yeah, turns out that once again a newspaper headline is far from a reliable summary fit for a bumper sticker.
 
2014-03-28 12:14:14 AM
You are lucky I never would bring stuff to my mom or grandparents. Bunch of Phd's they actually explained Snells law and diffraction to me when I asked why the sky was blue. I was 5, seriously would have a "because it is" have been too hard?
 
2014-03-28 12:17:46 AM

haolegirl: Well, I messed up royally with my oldest kid. First I taught her how to write her name, wrong (hint: it's NOT all caps)then I let the neighbor kid teach her cursive (kindergarten is too soon). I am not the parent who gives the answer, so I have that going for me. Also, and the daughter of an engineer I understand the beauty of the short simple answer! I never could figure out why 2+2= hour long lecture about the many ways you can check the answer to make sure it's right.


A while back a coworker was telling us about how difficult it was to teach her daughter multiplication.  We were all ribbing her about it, until she mentioned that the school taught her daughter something called the lattice method, and when she takes a test she has to use this method.  Then we googled the lattice method and it was the most over-complicated method of trying to multiply two numbers I've ever seen.  We were grown adults who knew how to multiply, yet none of us could understand how to use this bizarre method.  I finally figured it out, but it wasn't intuitive at all.  They basically found a way to take a really practical operation -- multiplication -- and turn it into some weird blackbox voodoo thing.

Read about it yourself:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lattice_multiplication

(Now that I reread the wikipedia, it's apparently been around for a long time, but I sure as heck never learned this in school.  This would've easily sent my elementary math education backwards a few months)
 
2014-03-28 12:24:32 AM

Top Geezer: FTFA: "be born rich"

/so sue me. I paraphrased.


Well, if your parents aren't rich, they probably didn't do well in school and thus shouldn't be helping.
 
2014-03-28 12:24:53 AM
I farking hated homework when I was in school, no farking way am I helping those little cockblocks.
 
2014-03-28 12:30:18 AM

balki1867: haolegirl: Well, I messed up royally with my oldest kid. First I taught her how to write her name, wrong (hint: it's NOT all caps)then I let the neighbor kid teach her cursive (kindergarten is too soon). I am not the parent who gives the answer, so I have that going for me. Also, and the daughter of an engineer I understand the beauty of the short simple answer! I never could figure out why 2+2= hour long lecture about the many ways you can check the answer to make sure it's right.

A while back a coworker was telling us about how difficult it was to teach her daughter multiplication.  We were all ribbing her about it, until she mentioned that the school taught her daughter something called the lattice method, and when she takes a test she has to use this method.  Then we googled the lattice method and it was the most over-complicated method of trying to multiply two numbers I've ever seen.  We were grown adults who knew how to multiply, yet none of us could understand how to use this bizarre method.  I finally figured it out, but it wasn't intuitive at all.  They basically found a way to take a really practical operation -- multiplication -- and turn it into some weird blackbox voodoo thing.

Read about it yourself:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lattice_multiplication

(Now that I reread the wikipedia, it's apparently been around for a long time, but I sure as heck never learned this in school.  This would've easily sent my elementary math education backwards a few months)


Yeah that is wonky. I was thinking of picking up the Singapore math curriculum for my daughter's because touch Math curriculums have that here. Fortunately they also use Fontas and Pinnel for guided reading and I adore those books
 
2014-03-28 12:31:47 AM

balki1867: haolegirl: Well, I messed up royally with my oldest kid. First I taught her how to write her name, wrong (hint: it's NOT all caps)then I let the neighbor kid teach her cursive (kindergarten is too soon). I am not the parent who gives the answer, so I have that going for me. Also, and the daughter of an engineer I understand the beauty of the short simple answer! I never could figure out why 2+2= hour long lecture about the many ways you can check the answer to make sure it's right.

A while back a coworker was telling us about how difficult it was to teach her daughter multiplication.  We were all ribbing her about it, until she mentioned that the school taught her daughter something called the lattice method, and when she takes a test she has to use this method.  Then we googled the lattice method and it was the most over-complicated method of trying to multiply two numbers I've ever seen.  We were grown adults who knew how to multiply, yet none of us could understand how to use this bizarre method.  I finally figured it out, but it wasn't intuitive at all.  They basically found a way to take a really practical operation -- multiplication -- and turn it into some weird blackbox voodoo thing.

Read about it yourself:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lattice_multiplication

(Now that I reread the wikipedia, it's apparently been around for a long time, but I sure as heck never learned this in school.  This would've easily sent my elementary math education backwards a few months)


1) that method isn't more difficult TO YOU because it's more difficult. It's more difficult because it's not how you learned it.

2) I just read the wiki, and I completely understand it's operation, and is seems pretty simplistic.
 
2014-03-28 12:31:56 AM
So two sociology professors write a book that says everything that educators know about education is wrong and that it is in fact the student's social environment out side of school which is key to academic success. I am so shocked. Who would have thunk it? A work of pure genius on their part.
 
2014-03-28 12:35:59 AM

balki1867: haolegirl: Well, I messed up royally with my oldest kid. First I taught her how to write her name, wrong (hint: it's NOT all caps)then I let the neighbor kid teach her cursive (kindergarten is too soon). I am not the parent who gives the answer, so I have that going for me. Also, and the daughter of an engineer I understand the beauty of the short simple answer! I never could figure out why 2+2= hour long lecture about the many ways you can check the answer to make sure it's right.

A while back a coworker was telling us about how difficult it was to teach her daughter multiplication.  We were all ribbing her about it, until she mentioned that the school taught her daughter something called the lattice method, and when she takes a test she has to use this method.  Then we googled the lattice method and it was the most over-complicated method of trying to multiply two numbers I've ever seen.  We were grown adults who knew how to multiply, yet none of us could understand how to use this bizarre method.  I finally figured it out, but it wasn't intuitive at all.  They basically found a way to take a really practical operation -- multiplication -- and turn it into some weird blackbox voodoo thing.

Read about it yourself:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lattice_multiplication

(Now that I reread the wikipedia, it's apparently been around for a long time, but I sure as heck never learned this in school.  This would've easily sent my elementary math education backwards a few months)


No thanks!! I have a calculator that works just fine! Any math I have to do at work I do on my phone, just like the doctor does!
 
2014-03-28 12:36:18 AM

balki1867: haolegirl: Well, I messed up royally with my oldest kid. First I taught her how to write her name, wrong (hint: it's NOT all caps)then I let the neighbor kid teach her cursive (kindergarten is too soon). I am not the parent who gives the answer, so I have that going for me. Also, and the daughter of an engineer I understand the beauty of the short simple answer! I never could figure out why 2+2= hour long lecture about the many ways you can check the answer to make sure it's right.

A while back a coworker was telling us about how difficult it was to teach her daughter multiplication.  We were all ribbing her about it, until she mentioned that the school taught her daughter something called the lattice method, and when she takes a test she has to use this method.  Then we googled the lattice method and it was the most over-complicated method of trying to multiply two numbers I've ever seen.  We were grown adults who knew how to multiply, yet none of us could understand how to use this bizarre method.  I finally figured it out, but it wasn't intuitive at all.  They basically found a way to take a really practical operation -- multiplication -- and turn it into some weird blackbox voodoo thing.

Read about it yourself:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lattice_multiplication

(Now that I reread the wikipedia, it's apparently been around for a long time, but I sure as heck never learned this in school.  This would've easily sent my elementary math education backwards a few months)


It's just a short cut for multiplication. It's slightly convoluted but I could see the use for that method for people who don't understand number places.
 
2014-03-28 12:37:40 AM
Now I can tell my ex-wife that I am not lazy, I just want our son to figure things out for himself.

It actually makes sense though.  Kids need to learn to do their work themselves.  They also don't need to get even more confused by asking a parent how to do something, when that parent has no idea them self.
 
2014-03-28 12:37:49 AM

haolegirl: balki1867: haolegirl: Well, I messed up royally with my oldest kid. First I taught her how to write her name, wrong (hint: it's NOT all caps)then I let the neighbor kid teach her cursive (kindergarten is too soon). I am not the parent who gives the answer, so I have that going for me. Also, and the daughter of an engineer I understand the beauty of the short simple answer! I never could figure out why 2+2= hour long lecture about the many ways you can check the answer to make sure it's right.

A while back a coworker was telling us about how difficult it was to teach her daughter multiplication.  We were all ribbing her about it, until she mentioned that the school taught her daughter something called the lattice method, and when she takes a test she has to use this method.  Then we googled the lattice method and it was the most over-complicated method of trying to multiply two numbers I've ever seen.  We were grown adults who knew how to multiply, yet none of us could understand how to use this bizarre method.  I finally figured it out, but it wasn't intuitive at all.  They basically found a way to take a really practical operation -- multiplication -- and turn it into some weird blackbox voodoo thing.

Read about it yourself:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lattice_multiplication

(Now that I reread the wikipedia, it's apparently been around for a long time, but I sure as heck never learned this in school.  This would've easily sent my elementary math education backwards a few months)

No thanks!! I have a calculator that works just fine! Any math I have to do at work I do on my phone, just like the doctor does!


Ah, now I understand...
 
2014-03-28 12:38:51 AM
That method is also a he'll of a lot easier to error check than the method I learned.
 
2014-03-28 12:39:00 AM

Shakin_Haitian: people who don't understand number places.


Numbers have places?
 
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