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(CNN)   Only 1 out of every 68 children in the U.S. is getting vaccinated   (cnn.com ) divider line
    More: Scary, U.S., spectrum disorders, developmental disorder  
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11070 clicks; posted to Main » on 27 Mar 2014 at 5:56 PM (2 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



Voting Results (Smartest)
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

2014-03-27 04:41:59 PM  
11 votes:
I've always said this country needs a few good epidemics of vaccine preventable disease, and thousands of dead and crippled people as a result of it before people stop listening to outright idiots who got their medical degrees at the University of Google.

That said, there is zero evidence that autism is caused by vaccination or a vaccine component, out of almost twenty five years of intense studies on the matter.

Also, bravo, submitter. You'll get a few bites.
2014-03-27 05:09:59 PM  
9 votes:
Oh, well done. Very well done.

in other news, I have a simple carrot-and-stick solution to this problem:

1. The state has a clear vested interest in public health. if there is an epidemic, productivity drops, taxes go away, and the state takes on added expenses. If the epidemic is bad enough, it damages public order. Therefore, the state has a legitimate reason to regulate this issue.

2. The state builds and maintains its own schools and its own roads. These are public property.

3. Neither schooling nor roads are rights. Schooling may be obligatory, but public school is a privilege, as demonstrated by routine suspensions and expulsions.

4. QED: if you don't have your kids vaccinated, you can't send your kids to public school, and you lose your driver's license. But you ARE still obligated to provide for their schooling.

Hit them in the wallet. That will shape them up really quickly. Sure, they'll sue, both for discrimination and for religious reasons, but they'll lose. There's not a court in the land that will uphold these assholes' right to not vaccinate against the state's right to regulate its roads. Particularly not when a clear public good is associated. 

It's simple: you can't drink and drive. You can't send your kids to school with guns. Likewise, you can't drive around spreading your preventable epidemics, and you can't send your kids to school to do the same. It's simple prevention.

But you ARE still free to not vaccinate. You just won't like it.
2014-03-27 04:36:04 PM  
9 votes:
Idiots. Every single one of those parents should be jailed for child endangerment.
2014-03-27 07:56:52 PM  
4 votes:

Pattuq: That's a lot of retarded people.  Remind me again why we need to support a bunch of useless retarded people with our taxes when it's difficult enough for normal people to get by?


I don't particularly mind my taxes going to support actual retarded people, or other people with legitimate disabilities that prevent them from fully participating in the economy -- that's something a civilized society should do as a matter of course.

Who I utterly loathe are people of normal cognitive ability who deliberately choose to be stupid and ignorant in ways that put the rest of us at risk, like the anti-vaccinators.

I'd be quite happy to see them starve.
2014-03-27 07:48:36 PM  
4 votes:

farkinologist: There are some good things about vaccinations, and bad things, and some very bad things. Do the research, ask questions from credible resources and decide for yourself. Opinions are like a**holes, almost everybody has one, but not all of em work. For the record, I have two un-vaccinated kids, both alive, neither has autism, and as far as I know have not contracted any serious diseases. They both got whooping cough (pertussis), and survived it. They gave it to me and their mother and we are vaccinated, and survived it. I'm sure some of the meanies out there will be happy to hear we were "infected".

Try not to hate too much, just because not everybody chooses to believe everything their told, or do it the way you think it should be done.


The asymptomatic transmission period for whooping cough is an average of 7 to 10 days with a range of 5 to 21 days. Whooping cough is highly contagious. I wonder how many people your family infected before being diagnosed and (hopefully) quarantined. I wonder if any of them were very young, very old, or immunosuppressed. I wonder if any of them had to be hospitalized. I wonder if any of them died.

But hey, you all survived, so that's what matters, right?
2014-03-27 07:32:55 PM  
4 votes:

farkinologist: There are some good things about vaccinations, and bad things, and some very bad things. Do the research, ask questions from credible resources and decide for yourself. Opinions are like a**holes, almost everybody has one, but not all of em work. For the record, I have two un-vaccinated kids, both alive, neither has autism, and as far as I know have not contracted any serious diseases. They both got whooping cough (pertussis), and survived it. They gave it to me and their mother and we are vaccinated, and survived it. I'm sure some of the meanies out there will be happy to hear we were "infected".

Try not to hate too much, just because not everybody chooses to believe everything their told, or do it the way you think it should be done.


I wonder how many children and adults contracted pertussis from your children.  I wonder if anyone down the line in the chain of infection died.  But hey, you and your partner and your kids are okay, so that's all just fine, then.
2014-03-27 06:27:59 PM  
3 votes:
FTA- there's been a 30% increase  in just the last two years in the prevalence of autism.   Sounds like it's contagious! (After all, if you're born with it or acquire it at age 1 with your vaccinations, the prevalence in children couldn't possibly go up 30% in just two years, could it?)

/This is why you should never read about things having to do with epidemiology or statistics from CNN.  They post crap like "1 in 68 children now has autism, a 30% increase from 1 in 88 two years ago."  Dut dut dunhh!  The "30% increase in 2 years" statement is meaningless.  Why even report it when it's obvious the two things being compared are not similar observations- far more likely is a definition of "autism spectrum disorder" changed, sampling methods changed, reporting requirements changed, what have you.  I despair for our innumerate society.
2014-03-27 06:07:01 PM  
3 votes:
CSB:

My sister told me about her friends that had a child they were convinced was mildly autistic.  He'd get upset at busy malls, get mad at meals, and get so upset he'd knock his head on the floor.  I told her that he wasn't autistic, he was normal and their parents needed to discipline the child.  Turns out they started to discipline him and lo and behold, he acted better.
2014-03-27 05:02:52 PM  
3 votes:

raerae1980: Did I hear correctly when I heard that autism begins in the womb, which would be before vaccinations begins?


As I understand it, the current research is focusing on neurological development and growth in utero, as studies have identified increased pre-frontal neuronal density as one of the common factors in children and adults who are on the Autism spectrum.

So much of the anti-vaccination movement, however, boils down to their child (or the person themselves) being a victim of something they can't even understand. If you want to lose faith in humanity, click on over to the Age Of Autism blog, and read the way some of these idiots talk about their own children. They actually believe their child would have been better off dead.
2014-03-27 08:53:40 PM  
2 votes:

Pattuq:

The numbers are horseshiat, that's why.  They apply the "Autism" label to anyone who has any sort of social difficulty so they can sell those people drugs.

Tetzlaff: umudbro: Autism researcher here.

It's caused by helicopter parents, snowflake syndrome and lazy MDs who can't find anything wrong with the kid and use it as a "go to" excuse or something they can tell angry parents so that they leave happy.

You waste your time on a mostly fictive "fashion disease". Maybe you want to look into some real problems like diabetes or Alzheimer's.


I'm not sure how "fashionable" it is to shop for an Autism diagnosis, but I do know it's quite "fashionable" to make blanket obtstructive and antagonistic remarks for the sake of collecting feedback... also known as "trolling" and "bites". For example, take the thread's headline. That there's a troll. However, as has been stated multiple times, that is an inventive troll that leans toward the snarky and humorous rather than the blatantly vitriolic.

Now with you two, I don't know if you're just standard internet tough guys who "know better", or just attention whores seeking negative feedback for your "trolling". In either case, if you actually knew more about what you spoke of, your choice of post might be a bit different. Having some anecdote of knowing a farkwad who calls his recalcitrant son "autistic" isn't evidence that this here is just a faddish concocted epidemic.

In other words... refrain from posting and do some research... or go back to 4chan and bone up on trolling.
2014-03-27 06:52:46 PM  
2 votes:

just_intonation: You actually believe all of this is attributable to the Jenny McCarthys of the world and your MD from UG?


No. I believe that anti-vaccination is older than the internet, and even the telegraph. What I do know is that the Jenny McCarthies of the world are the public face of the anti-vaccination movement, and the face of one of the most prevalent anti-science movements in the world at this current time.

just_intonation: And I'll guarantee you that the difference is not attributable to the Religious Right, the Tea Party, Republicans or any of that usual brand of derp.


Anti-vaccination is a derp which is truly bipartisan.
2014-03-27 06:50:45 PM  
2 votes:

Loreweaver: Stop diluting the definition of Autism to include brats with self-entitled helicopter parents!


Humor us and define Autism.

As a bonus, which of the diagnostic criteria of the DSM-V for autism and social development disorders do you disagree with, and why?
2014-03-27 06:20:31 PM  
2 votes:

whistleridge: Oh, well done. Very well done.

in other news, I have a simple carrot-and-stick solution to this problem:

1. The state has a clear vested interest in public health. if there is an epidemic, productivity drops, taxes go away, and the state takes on added expenses. If the epidemic is bad enough, it damages public order. Therefore, the state has a legitimate reason to regulate this issue.

2. The state builds and maintains its own schools and its own roads. These are public property.

3. Neither schooling nor roads are rights. Schooling may be obligatory, but public school is a privilege, as demonstrated by routine suspensions and expulsions.

4. QED: if you don't have your kids vaccinated, you can't send your kids to public school, and you lose your driver's license. But you ARE still obligated to provide for their schooling.

Hit them in the wallet. That will shape them up really quickly. Sure, they'll sue, both for discrimination and for religious reasons, but they'll lose. There's not a court in the land that will uphold these assholes' right to not vaccinate against the state's right to regulate its roads. Particularly not when a clear public good is associated. 

It's simple: you can't drink and drive. You can't send your kids to school with guns. Likewise, you can't drive around spreading your preventable epidemics, and you can't send your kids to school to do the same. It's simple prevention.

But you ARE still free to not vaccinate. You just won't like it.


People have totally forgotten about the raging polio epidemics that occurred that totally shut down cities.  No one went to school, no one went to work, government services were shut down...  Everybody just stayed in their homes for a few WEEKS hoping that the epidemic would subside.
2014-03-28 08:38:56 AM  
1 vote:
If the number of people who actually have some form of biological autism is truly so high, and rising so quickly, then we have nothing short of an ecological disaster on our hands.

The folks claiming to link it to genetics are almost certainly wrong. We've found a bit of a tendency for autism to run in families, but the "genetic links" found thus far are too weak and unreliable to account for that tendency. There are plenty of other things that run in families, and we should be looking to those for answers.

I'd call the antivaxxers wrong, but the junk-science behind their claims is so bad that they don't even rise to the level of "wrong". At most, they have a single discredited study by a known fraudster and quack. Said quack seems to at least be sincere, but that has only made him more dangerous, given the fraud and deception he has shown himself willing to commit just to advance that belief.

The current epigenetic research that hardinparamedic mentioned seems much more promising: factors that arise in utero (long before vaccines are ever administered), but are not linked to genes per se. They're already showing common threads that are much, much stronger than anything previous research has been able to find. We still haven't found a cause, but these strong common factors are like signposts: follow the trail of cause and effect, and as long as it stays this strong, you'll likely find your culprit.

That said, this research also points to the likelihood of something to blame: something people do that dramatically ups the risk of their child developing this, or can avoid doing to dramatically lower that risk. If autism is truly on the rise, then this thing, whatever it is, is likely on the rise as well. I suspect that if this research finally gives us an answer, it is going to make a lot of people very uncomfortable.
2014-03-27 10:22:43 PM  
1 vote:
Every one of those 1 in 68 has a fulfilling career awaiting for them at the Department of Education.
2014-03-27 09:45:36 PM  
1 vote:

umudbro: Tetzlaff:

It's caused by helicopter parents, snowflake syndrome and lazy MDs who can't find anything wrong with the kid and use it as a "go to" excuse or something they can tell angry parents so that they leave happy.

You waste your time on a mostly fictive "fashion disease". Maybe you want to look into some real problems like diabetes or Alzheimer's.

Hi.  It's true that lots of people flock to autism for a diagnosis for a variety of reasons.  And it is true that ASD is a very broad disorder diagnosed by salient social issues.   However, do not fall victim to ennui because of the sudden inundation of autism as a fad diagnosis.

This ongoing study from the CDC has shown an exponential rise since the 1970's -- long before autism became a fad.  At the end of the day all we have is data.  And, dare I say,in the face of raw data the onus of convincing me that it is a fictional disease falls upon your shoulders.

/pulls up chair, lights cigar

You may begin.


Raw data based on what? If the "raw data" is rise in children diagnosed with autism then the CDC data can not be used by either of us. If we changed the criteria scaling the cut-off the spectrum more and more towards diagnosing with autism instead of not then the "cases of autism" slowly rise. Every fad has a beginning THEN rises to the point where everybody (mainstream)  notices.

But there is actually one thing I can think of: More and more parents have their children rather later in life than sooner as compared to the early 20th century and before. Maybe that's worth looking into.
2014-03-27 08:56:14 PM  
1 vote:

Nick Nostril: We used to call them hyper.


Yeah I think you're unfamiliar with autism then.

On another note, while I think it's unlikely that vaccinations cause autism, and I would certainly vaccinate any of my children until they thought they were pin cushions, one must admit that even if vaccinations led to an increased incidence of autism, it wouldn't necessarily affect vaccinated person. So the fact that one in sixty-eight children is autistic does not prove that vaccinations don't cause autism.
2014-03-27 08:50:10 PM  
1 vote:
Ah.. ahuh. Wanna know what leads to increased rates of autism diagnosis? Redefining it in the DSM. Come DSM VI, rates of autism will mysteriously drop back down again. Book it, done.
2014-03-27 08:47:04 PM  
1 vote:

hardinparamedic: Loreweaver: Stop diluting the definition of Autism to include brats with self-entitled helicopter parents!

Humor us and define Autism.

As a bonus, which of the diagnostic criteria of the DSM-V for autism and social development disorders do you disagree with, and why?


For starters, from the article you linked:

1.       Deficits in using communication for social purposes, such as greeting and sharing information, in a manner that is appropriate for the social context.
2.       Impairment of the ability to change communication to match context or the needs of the listener, such as speaking differently in a classroom than on the playground, talking differently to a child than to an adult, and avoiding use of overly formal language.
3.       Difficulties following rules for conversation and storytelling, such as taking turns in conversation, rephrasing when misunderstood, and knowing how to use verbal and nonverbal signals to regulate interaction.
4.       Difficulties understanding what is not explicitly stated (e.g., making inferences) and nonliteral or ambiguous meanings of language (e.g., idioms, humor, metaphors, multiple meanings that depend on the context for interpretation).


All 4 can be applied to 90% of all children under the age of 12.

The other half of the problem is that parents (and far too many physicians) seem to think that a kid with a lot of pent-up energy or throwing a temper tantrum is automatically a sign of ASD. Or, the parents just want an excuse to medicate their child instead of disciplining them, or even just taking an active role in raising them.

And, no, letting them sit in front of a TV watching shows or playing video games and smartphone apps all day is NOT raising a child.

Nowadays, it seems like no one wants to see the obvious connection between kids being unable to sit still, and the fact that kids no longer run around outside and use up all that pent-up energy...
2014-03-27 08:07:49 PM  
1 vote:

Alonjar: According to the article, 1 in 45 males born in New Jersey have autism. That sounds staggeringly high.


The numbers are horseshiat, that's why.  They apply the "Autism" label to anyone who has any sort of social difficulty so they can sell those people drugs.
2014-03-27 08:05:00 PM  
1 vote:

DrPainMD: whistleridge: ...you can't drive around spreading your preventable epidemics, and you can't send your kids to school to do the same. It's simple prevention.

How is an unvaccinated kid, in a group of vaccinated kids, a danger to anybody?


http://pediatrics.about.com/b/2014/03/19/not-vaccinating-your-kids-w ho -are-you-putting-at-risk.htm

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/249411.php
2014-03-27 07:56:30 PM  
1 vote:

jaytkay: Shazam999: whistleridge: The only group that is driving the anti-vaccine movement are middle-to-upper middle class whites, who almost universally lean right and spend too much time at church. They're self-centered idiots, who refuse to look at actual facts. Kind of like your post above.

Hmm, all the anti-vaxxers I know are extremely liberal.  And don't make much money.

The anti-vaxxers I know are upper-middle class liberals.


The only anti-vaxxers I've known have all been religious. They're all nutty fruitbags. I guess the outlet is just different.
2014-03-27 07:24:16 PM  
1 vote:

Shazam999: whistleridge: The only group that is driving the anti-vaccine movement are middle-to-upper middle class whites, who almost universally lean right and spend too much time at church. They're self-centered idiots, who refuse to look at actual facts. Kind of like your post above.

Hmm, all the anti-vaxxers I know are extremely liberal.  And don't make much money.


The anti-vaxxers I know are upper-middle class liberals.
2014-03-27 07:19:55 PM  
1 vote:
CNN: "...The study found nearly half of children with an autism spectrum disorder have average or above-average intellectual ability -- an IQ above 85 -- compared with one-third of children a decade ago...."

Wait, what?  I thought an average IQ was around 100. Or are they just talking about CNN's viewers and staff?
2014-03-27 07:15:17 PM  
1 vote:

whistleridge: The only group that is driving the anti-vaccine movement are middle-to-upper middle class whites, who almost universally lean right and spend too much time at church. They're self-centered idiots, who refuse to look at actual facts. Kind of like your post above.


Hmm, all the anti-vaxxers I know are extremely liberal.  And don't make much money.
2014-03-27 07:13:29 PM  
1 vote:

just_intonation: whistleridge: Oh, well done. Very well done.

in other news, I have a simple carrot-and-stick solution to this problem:

1. The state has a clear vested interest in public health. if there is an epidemic, productivity drops, taxes go away, and the state takes on added expenses. If the epidemic is bad enough, it damages public order. Therefore, the state has a legitimate reason to regulate this issue.

2. The state builds and maintains its own schools and its own roads. These are public property.

3. Neither schooling nor roads are rights. Schooling may be obligatory, but public school is a privilege, as demonstrated by routine suspensions and expulsions.

4. QED: if you don't have your kids vaccinated, you can't send your kids to public school, and you lose your driver's license. But you ARE still obligated to provide for their schooling.

Hit them in the wallet. That will shape them up really quickly. Sure, they'll sue, both for discrimination and for religious reasons, but they'll lose. There's not a court in the land that will uphold these assholes' right to not vaccinate against the state's right to regulate its roads. Particularly not when a clear public good is associated. 

It's simple: you can't drink and drive. You can't send your kids to school with guns. Likewise, you can't drive around spreading your preventable epidemics, and you can't send your kids to school to do the same. It's simple prevention.

But you ARE still free to not vaccinate. You just won't like it.

Yeah, sure.  Your argument falls completely apart for those families who are on the gubmint teat, or here illegally (or both).  There's no wallet to hit, except OURS.

Now, to your point 4) above -- since the State is still being expected to provide education for kids of illegals (e.g. California) -- how about we expand that to say 'if you're not a citizen, and you have about 30 of those 68 kids yourself -- they can't come to school until they are vaccinated.  That hits them in the wallet a lot more.


Let's play a game. It's called 'who can be the stupidest asshole in the thread'.

Oh hey, look: you won! Congratulations! We can all tell you worked hard at it.

News flash: poor people get vaccines for free through public health programs. And they actually do it, because they can't afford to miss work because.

The only group that is driving the anti-vaccine movement are middle-to-upper middle class whites, who almost universally lean right and spend too much time at church. They're self-centered idiots, who refuse to look at actual facts. Kind of like your post above.

Thank you for playing though.
2014-03-27 07:11:59 PM  
1 vote:

zeio: Shazam999: People have totally forgotten about the raging polio epidemics that occurred that totally shut down cities

People also forget the only route that polio is spread is feces being ingested. Look it up. Maybe if there wasnt a tolerable amount of poop in food and on unwashed hands...


It just meant that your grandma did ATM.
2014-03-27 06:58:55 PM  
1 vote:
Good. We need a new plague to wipe out most of the human race, since war isn't going to do it at this rate.
2014-03-27 06:50:49 PM  
1 vote:

ParallelUniverseParking: Nice job, subby. This is going to be a hilarious thread full of confusion due to many cases of  DRTFArtileritis


Between that and the Michelle Obama thread, this has turned into a trollmitter kinda day.  Not complaining.
2014-03-27 06:45:41 PM  
1 vote:
On the issue of "diagnosing" Autism Spectrum Disorder:

A note to all medical personnel and psychiatric quacks:
Kids who are merely socially awkward, or have never been properly disciplined by their parents, ARE NOT AUTISTIC, YOU FREAKING RETARDS!

Stop diluting the definition of Autism to include brats with self-entitled helicopter parents!

Sincerely,
Uncle of an Autistic child
2014-03-27 06:34:29 PM  
1 vote:
Great, McCarthyism on the rise again.

/farking AWtism
2014-03-27 06:24:47 PM  
1 vote:

Shazam999: CSB:

My sister told me about her friends that had a child they were convinced was mildly autistic.  He'd get upset at busy malls, get mad at meals, and get so upset he'd knock his head on the floor.  I told her that he wasn't autistic, he was normal and their parents needed to discipline the child.  Turns out they started to discipline him and lo and behold, he acted better.


People often look to an external locus of control to explain why they suck ass at stuff.

/i blame white folk
2014-03-27 06:22:39 PM  
1 vote:
Subby definitely got me to click the link, but not before I let out a loud, involuntary "What the fark...!!?"
2014-03-27 06:08:45 PM  
1 vote:
I'm fine with people not vaccinating their kids, as long as they're fine with us bringing back medieval leper colonies and us forcing them to live there.
2014-03-27 06:04:37 PM  
1 vote:
We used to call them hyper.
2014-03-27 05:57:44 PM  
1 vote:
That's okay, the world is overpopulated
2014-03-27 05:23:09 PM  
1 vote:

Diogenes: raerae1980: hardinparamedic: I've always said this country needs a few good epidemics of vaccine preventable disease, and thousands of dead and crippled people as a result of it before people stop listening to outright idiots who got their medical degrees at the University of Google.

That said, there is zero evidence that autism is caused by vaccination or a vaccine component, out of almost twenty five years of intense studies on the matter.

Also, bravo, submitter. You'll get a few bites.

Did I hear correctly when I heard that autism begins in the womb, which would be before vaccinations begins?

Hey now.  No dodging your Boobies.  You swallowed that hook ;-)


Eh, I've swallowed worst.
2014-03-27 05:05:39 PM  
1 vote:

Diogenes: raerae1980: hardinparamedic: I've always said this country needs a few good epidemics of vaccine preventable disease, and thousands of dead and crippled people as a result of it before people stop listening to outright idiots who got their medical degrees at the University of Google.

That said, there is zero evidence that autism is caused by vaccination or a vaccine component, out of almost twenty five years of intense studies on the matter.

Also, bravo, submitter. You'll get a few bites.

Did I hear correctly when I heard that autism begins in the womb, which would be before vaccinations begins?

Hey now.  No dodging your Boobies.  You swallowed that hook ;-)


Agreed. It's a full on motorboating now.
2014-03-27 05:04:22 PM  
1 vote:

raerae1980: hardinparamedic: I've always said this country needs a few good epidemics of vaccine preventable disease, and thousands of dead and crippled people as a result of it before people stop listening to outright idiots who got their medical degrees at the University of Google.

That said, there is zero evidence that autism is caused by vaccination or a vaccine component, out of almost twenty five years of intense studies on the matter.

Also, bravo, submitter. You'll get a few bites.

Did I hear correctly when I heard that autism begins in the womb, which would be before vaccinations begins?


Hey now.  No dodging your Boobies.  You swallowed that hook ;-)
2014-03-27 04:48:10 PM  
1 vote:

hardinparamedic: I've always said this country needs a few good epidemics of vaccine preventable disease, and thousands of dead and crippled people as a result of it before people stop listening to outright idiots who got their medical degrees at the University of Google.

That said, there is zero evidence that autism is caused by vaccination or a vaccine component, out of almost twenty five years of intense studies on the matter.

Also, bravo, submitter. You'll get a few bites.


Did I hear correctly when I heard that autism begins in the womb, which would be before vaccinations begins?
 
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