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(CNN)   Only 1 out of every 68 children in the U.S. is getting vaccinated   (cnn.com) divider line 158
    More: Scary, U.S., spectrum disorders, developmental disorder  
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11038 clicks; posted to Main » on 27 Mar 2014 at 5:56 PM (29 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-03-27 08:11:03 PM  

DrPainMD: whistleridge: ...you can't drive around spreading your preventable epidemics, and you can't send your kids to school to do the same. It's simple prevention.

How is an unvaccinated kid, in a group of vaccinated kids, a danger to anybody?


The short answer (see the links provided above) is that *not* all kids can be vaccinated even if their parents want them to be because (a) they're too young, (b) they have compromised immune systems from some other disease, (c) they have serious allergies to the substances the vaccines are made of, etc.

"Herd immunity," i.e., when everybody who medically can be vaccinated has been, protects these people because it's far less likely they'll come into contact with something like whooping cough.
 
2014-03-27 08:11:40 PM  
Autism is fake along with AIDS. why can't you people figure this out?
 
2014-03-27 08:17:14 PM  

umudbro: Autism researcher here.

As for autism related to vaccines, there are conflicting theories and frankly the biological mechanism is feasible.  But, more research needs to be done, and insofar the positive contributions of vaccines to society far outweigh any known risks at this time.

On the other hand, a theory that I have been looking into for the past few years in the feasibility of autism being triggered by excessive ultrasound exposure in the womb.  There are some side effects of ultrasound exposure that can be linked directly with autism symptoms.

Whatever it is, we need to find out what is causing this rise and fast.  If you extrapolate the data, in about 50 years we will have like ... 50 autists for every 1 non-ASD.  So, wouldn't autism then become neurotypical?


It's caused by helicopter parents, snowflake syndrome and lazy MDs who can't find anything wrong with the kid and use it as a "go to" excuse or something they can tell angry parents so that they leave happy.

You waste your time on a mostly fictive "fashion disease". Maybe you want to look into some real problems like diabetes or Alzheimer's.
 
2014-03-27 08:34:40 PM  

Tetzlaff: t's caused by helicopter parents, snowflake syndrome and lazy MDs who can't find anything wrong with the kid and use it as a "go to" excuse or something they can tell angry parents so that they leave happy.

You waste your time on a mostly fictive "fashion disease". Maybe you want to look into some real problems like diabetes or Alzheimer's.


That's a harsh way of putting it, but, yes.

We live in a permissive, neurotic, narcissistic society. What do we get when we breed? Autism.
Not very believable when you look at it. It is a catch-all to avoid a bigger issue.

Does autism exist? I think it does.
Unfortunately, I have a friend with an autistic sibling. I'm not a doctor but that boy is no where near  "normal".
 
2014-03-27 08:38:27 PM  
I have to call BS on this one. I see all of the vaccination data in our district and the number of kids without vaccinations or claiming waivers is about 5% if that.

The head line should read 68 of 69 kids not vaccinated yet.
 
2014-03-27 08:47:04 PM  

hardinparamedic: Loreweaver: Stop diluting the definition of Autism to include brats with self-entitled helicopter parents!

Humor us and define Autism.

As a bonus, which of the diagnostic criteria of the DSM-V for autism and social development disorders do you disagree with, and why?


For starters, from the article you linked:

1.       Deficits in using communication for social purposes, such as greeting and sharing information, in a manner that is appropriate for the social context.
2.       Impairment of the ability to change communication to match context or the needs of the listener, such as speaking differently in a classroom than on the playground, talking differently to a child than to an adult, and avoiding use of overly formal language.
3.       Difficulties following rules for conversation and storytelling, such as taking turns in conversation, rephrasing when misunderstood, and knowing how to use verbal and nonverbal signals to regulate interaction.
4.       Difficulties understanding what is not explicitly stated (e.g., making inferences) and nonliteral or ambiguous meanings of language (e.g., idioms, humor, metaphors, multiple meanings that depend on the context for interpretation).


All 4 can be applied to 90% of all children under the age of 12.

The other half of the problem is that parents (and far too many physicians) seem to think that a kid with a lot of pent-up energy or throwing a temper tantrum is automatically a sign of ASD. Or, the parents just want an excuse to medicate their child instead of disciplining them, or even just taking an active role in raising them.

And, no, letting them sit in front of a TV watching shows or playing video games and smartphone apps all day is NOT raising a child.

Nowadays, it seems like no one wants to see the obvious connection between kids being unable to sit still, and the fact that kids no longer run around outside and use up all that pent-up energy...
 
2014-03-27 08:48:55 PM  
Soooo...I'm actually just really annoyed. Everyone in the world has behavioral patterns that fall into a category of some sort of "label". Take narcissistic types, almost everyone has a few of the items that fall under the label, some can be truly labeled as such. There is no way in hell that out of a little over 5 thousand kids in 11 states are found to be truly autistic as opposed to having "some" of the qualities of a TRUE autistic. Everybody panic and contact Jenny McCarthy.
 
2014-03-27 08:50:10 PM  
Ah.. ahuh. Wanna know what leads to increased rates of autism diagnosis? Redefining it in the DSM. Come DSM VI, rates of autism will mysteriously drop back down again. Book it, done.
 
2014-03-27 08:51:03 PM  
raerae1980:

Did I hear correctly when I heard that autism begins in the womb, which would be before vaccinations begins?

Autism is caused by exposure to Gene Autry.
 
2014-03-27 08:53:38 PM  

zeio: ebenbane: That's okay, the world is overpopulated

So more autism spectrum disorders which do not effect life expectancy is better how?


Autistic people don't breed as often?
 
2014-03-27 08:53:40 PM  

Pattuq:

The numbers are horseshiat, that's why.  They apply the "Autism" label to anyone who has any sort of social difficulty so they can sell those people drugs.

Tetzlaff: umudbro: Autism researcher here.

It's caused by helicopter parents, snowflake syndrome and lazy MDs who can't find anything wrong with the kid and use it as a "go to" excuse or something they can tell angry parents so that they leave happy.

You waste your time on a mostly fictive "fashion disease". Maybe you want to look into some real problems like diabetes or Alzheimer's.


I'm not sure how "fashionable" it is to shop for an Autism diagnosis, but I do know it's quite "fashionable" to make blanket obtstructive and antagonistic remarks for the sake of collecting feedback... also known as "trolling" and "bites". For example, take the thread's headline. That there's a troll. However, as has been stated multiple times, that is an inventive troll that leans toward the snarky and humorous rather than the blatantly vitriolic.

Now with you two, I don't know if you're just standard internet tough guys who "know better", or just attention whores seeking negative feedback for your "trolling". In either case, if you actually knew more about what you spoke of, your choice of post might be a bit different. Having some anecdote of knowing a farkwad who calls his recalcitrant son "autistic" isn't evidence that this here is just a faddish concocted epidemic.

In other words... refrain from posting and do some research... or go back to 4chan and bone up on trolling.
 
2014-03-27 08:56:14 PM  

Nick Nostril: We used to call them hyper.


Yeah I think you're unfamiliar with autism then.

On another note, while I think it's unlikely that vaccinations cause autism, and I would certainly vaccinate any of my children until they thought they were pin cushions, one must admit that even if vaccinations led to an increased incidence of autism, it wouldn't necessarily affect vaccinated person. So the fact that one in sixty-eight children is autistic does not prove that vaccinations don't cause autism.
 
2014-03-27 08:59:45 PM  

proteus_b: Nick Nostril: We used to call them hyper.

Yeah I think you're unfamiliar with autism then.

On another note, while I think it's unlikely that vaccinations cause autism, and I would certainly vaccinate any of my children until they thought they were pin cushions, one must admit that even if vaccinations led to an increased incidence of autism, it wouldn't necessarily affect vaccinated person. So the fact that one in sixty-eight children is autistic does not prove that vaccinations don't cause autism.


Sure. What you're semantically saying is true. That's not the proof. Other studies rather are the proof that they have not found any correlation to vaccinations and autism. Such as unvaccinated children getting autism (unless your point was that there could be many causes of autism).
 
2014-03-27 09:14:47 PM  

rebelyell2006: MrBentor: CNN: "...The study found nearly half of children with an autism spectrum disorder have average or above-average intellectual ability -- an IQ above 85 -- compared with one-third of children a decade ago...."

Wait, what?  I thought an average IQ was around 100. Or are they just talking about CNN's viewers and staff?

I think it might be an awkward way of saying that the average IQ of autistics is equivalent to the total society's 85 IQ point (85USA = 100Autism). Half of autistic children are at or above that point (85USA), whereas a decade ago only a third of autistic children were at or above that point (85USA).


Actually, anything between 85 and 115 is considered "average", so above 115 is "above average".
 
2014-03-27 09:15:12 PM  
Step 1: Redefine "autism" from a specific disorder into a spectrum of traits, ranging from benign to life destroying, that have always been part of human existence.
Step 2: Publish the data with the adjusted higher numbers for peers to reveiw.
Step 3: Undo Louis Pastuer's life's work when the plebians panic.

Good news: Idiocracy can never happen.
Bad news: You'll never get to dine at Buttfarker's.
 
2014-03-27 09:16:16 PM  
I got all my vaccines and I turned out fine.
 
2014-03-27 09:20:14 PM  

JohnnyApocalypse: Pattuq:

The numbers are horseshiat, that's why.  They apply the "Autism" label to anyone who has any sort of social difficulty so they can sell those people drugs.

Tetzlaff: umudbro: Autism researcher here.

It's caused by helicopter parents, snowflake syndrome and lazy MDs who can't find anything wrong with the kid and use it as a "go to" excuse or something they can tell angry parents so that they leave happy.

You waste your time on a mostly fictive "fashion disease". Maybe you want to look into some real problems like diabetes or Alzheimer's.

I'm not sure how "fashionable" it is to shop for an Autism diagnosis, but I do know it's quite "fashionable" to make blanket obtstructive and antagonistic remarks for the sake of collecting feedback... also known as "trolling" and "bites". For example, take the thread's headline. That there's a troll. However, as has been stated multiple times, that is an inventive troll that leans toward the snarky and humorous rather than the blatantly vitriolic.

Now with you two, I don't know if you're just standard internet tough guys who "know better", or just attention whores seeking negative feedback for your "trolling". In either case, if you actually knew more about what you spoke of, your choice of post might be a bit different. Having some anecdote of knowing a farkwad who calls his recalcitrant son "autistic" isn't evidence that this here is just a faddish concocted epidemic.

In other words... refrain from posting and do some research... or go back to 4chan and bone up on trolling.


There is autism. But is it really on the rise? Or do we label kids who'd been considered "weird kid" as "OMG autism" nowadays? The talk is always about a "spectrum". Same problem with ADHD...some have it, many others would just need a full 8 hours of sleep and better nutrition et voila, ADHD gone.

Here's how I think those numbers rise.

1950
Case A: Kid has actually autism.
Case B: Kid is a bit weird but o.k.
Case C: Kid goes through a phase but is o.k.
--> 1 autism case

2010:
Case A: Kid has actually autism.
Case B: Kid is a bit weird but ok....but the parents INSIST it's autism
Case C: Kid goes through a phase but is ok...but the MD doesn't dare to say "I dunno maybe your kid is just a bit funky and was born that way" and says "could be autism" instead.
--> 3 autism cases

Media: OMG autism tripled
 
2014-03-27 09:22:30 PM  
I'm "on the spectrum" as they say now a days, but, I think it's genetic, based on some of my relatives.  Didn't get diagnosed until I was in my 50's, but, wasn't really surprised and it explained a lot of things in my early life.  Managed to lead a "normal" life, for the most part.  A bit of self-medicating, maybe a bit too much in my late teens and twenties.  Wife and kids and step-daughters, legitimate career (will be retired soon), etc.  The psych who diagnosed me, wanted me to be a speaker and tell my life story, so others could see that you can have a "normal" life.  I, of course, said I couldn't do that, because I hate public speaking, so people struggle on, without the benefit of hearing about zimbomba63's multi-faceted life.
 
2014-03-27 09:25:37 PM  

JohnnyApocalypse: (unless your point was that there could be many causes of autism).


There indeed could be many causes of autism, and even if vaccination were one of them, it doesn't necessarily mean that every vaccination will cause autism. In the same way that having sex with someone who has AIDS doesn't necessarily mean that you will contract AIDS. That can vary from fairly low risk to fairly high risk depending on what kind of sex you have, for instance.
 
2014-03-27 09:31:39 PM  
Tetzlaff:

It's caused by helicopter parents, snowflake syndrome and lazy MDs who can't find anything wrong with the kid and use it as a "go to" excuse or something they can tell angry parents so that they leave happy.

You waste your time on a mostly fictive "fashion disease". Maybe you want to look into some real problems like diabetes or Alzheimer's.


Hi.  It's true that lots of people flock to autism for a diagnosis for a variety of reasons.  And it is true that ASD is a very broad disorder diagnosed by salient social issues.   However, do not fall victim to ennui because of the sudden inundation of autism as a fad diagnosis.

This ongoing study from the CDC has shown an exponential rise since the 1970's -- long before autism became a fad.  At the end of the day all we have is data.  And, dare I say,in the face of raw data the onus of convincing me that it is a fictional disease falls upon your shoulders.

/pulls up chair, lights cigar

You may begin.
 
2014-03-27 09:36:41 PM  

whistleridge: Hit them in the wallet. That will shape them up really quickly. Sure, they'll sue, both for discrimination and for religious reasons, but they'll lose. There's not a court in the land that will uphold these assholes' right to not vaccinate against the state's right to regulate its roads. Particularly not when a clear public good is associated.


You'd think so but Waldorf schools have some of the lowest vaccination rates and charge $20,000+ a year.
 
2014-03-27 09:42:29 PM  
One in 68 U.S. children has an autism spectrum disorder (ASD)

but

the CDC estimates 1 in 42 boys has autism, 4.5 times as many as girls (1 in 189).

so 68 is about halfway between 42 and 189?  lol whut?
 
2014-03-27 09:43:10 PM  

Skeptos: Pattuq: That's a lot of retarded people.  Remind me again why we need to support a bunch of useless retarded people with our taxes when it's difficult enough for normal people to get by?

I don't particularly mind my taxes going to support actual retarded people, or other people with legitimate disabilities that prevent them from fully participating in the economy -- that's something a civilized society should do as a matter of course.

Who I utterly loathe are people of normal cognitive ability who deliberately choose to be stupid and ignorant in ways that put the rest of us at risk, like the anti-vaccinators.

I'd be quite happy to see them starve.


Cool, do we all get to choose who gets the benefit of our tax money or are you the only one, El Supremo..
 
2014-03-27 09:45:36 PM  

umudbro: Tetzlaff:

It's caused by helicopter parents, snowflake syndrome and lazy MDs who can't find anything wrong with the kid and use it as a "go to" excuse or something they can tell angry parents so that they leave happy.

You waste your time on a mostly fictive "fashion disease". Maybe you want to look into some real problems like diabetes or Alzheimer's.

Hi.  It's true that lots of people flock to autism for a diagnosis for a variety of reasons.  And it is true that ASD is a very broad disorder diagnosed by salient social issues.   However, do not fall victim to ennui because of the sudden inundation of autism as a fad diagnosis.

This ongoing study from the CDC has shown an exponential rise since the 1970's -- long before autism became a fad.  At the end of the day all we have is data.  And, dare I say,in the face of raw data the onus of convincing me that it is a fictional disease falls upon your shoulders.

/pulls up chair, lights cigar

You may begin.


Raw data based on what? If the "raw data" is rise in children diagnosed with autism then the CDC data can not be used by either of us. If we changed the criteria scaling the cut-off the spectrum more and more towards diagnosing with autism instead of not then the "cases of autism" slowly rise. Every fad has a beginning THEN rises to the point where everybody (mainstream)  notices.

But there is actually one thing I can think of: More and more parents have their children rather later in life than sooner as compared to the early 20th century and before. Maybe that's worth looking into.
 
2014-03-27 09:51:29 PM  
The sensationalist headlines "journalists" are throwing around now are downright scary in their misinformation.
Fear sells clicks, clicks make money, and they know it. But there is nothing to fear, the ASD definition was recently broadened, so it's only logical that incidences of autism would rise sharply, now that more people by definition have autism.
 
2014-03-27 10:07:42 PM  

Loreweaver: All 4 can be applied to 90% of all children under the age of 12.

The other half of the problem is that parents (and far too many physicians) seem to think that a kid with a lot of pent-up energy or throwing a temper tantrum is automatically a sign of ASD. Or, the parents just want an excuse to medicate their child instead of disciplining them, or even just taking an active role in raising them.


Actually, I agree with you one one thing: Family Doctors and General Pediatricians have no business diagnosing autism outside of infancy, or really any mental health issue. They should be referring these kids to actual pediatric psychiatry practices for evaluation, diagnosis, and treatment.

But, to be blunt, it sounds less like you're concerned with misdiagnosis of children based on the failings of the parents, and more with the concern that your autistic child could be lumped together with the likes of people like Chris Chambers and most of 4Chan. It's defined as a spectrum for a reason.
 
2014-03-27 10:21:06 PM  
Tetzlaff:
Raw data based on what? If the "raw data" is rise in children diagnosed with autism then the CDC data can not be used by either of us. If we changed the criteria scaling the cut-off the spectrum more and more towards diagnosing with autism instead of not then the "cases of autism" slowly rise. Every fad has a beginning THEN rises to the point where everybody (mainstream)  notices.

But there is actually one thing I can think of: More and more parents have their children rather later in life than sooner as compared to the early 20th century and before. Maybe that's worth looking into.


The epidemiology of autism is a complicated issue, yes, especially because of the DSM changes.

But saying it is a fictitious disease is not accurate..  There are too many documented physical pathologies and genetics linked with genuine autism.  And while the overarching symptoms are diagnosed based on social cues, there are very real underlying physical abnormalities that predispose people to those actions and cognitive difficulties.

Of course social cues are not the best metric, and ASD is a catchall for what could be hundreds if not thousands of underlying disorders.  A number of people diagnosed with ASD are just similar to people with the genuine underlying physical issues that cause ASD.  The CDC numbers are concerning, but are indeed blurry.

You had mentioned age being a risk factor...  As I had mentioned earlier I am concerned about side effects from prenatal sonography possibly predisposing a child to autism.  I think older mothers get a number more of sonograms, too, considering they are "high risk".
 
2014-03-27 10:22:43 PM  
Every one of those 1 in 68 has a fulfilling career awaiting for them at the Department of Education.
 
2014-03-27 10:37:24 PM  
I had no idea there were so many immunologists on Fark.  So, if I pretend that I'm all science-y and condemn all anti-vaxxers to death, and act like I've read ALL the research "out there" on vaccination and autism, can I get my dick sucked too?
 
2014-03-27 10:44:29 PM  
so where the fk are these idiots getting their kids into schools ? idk of any schools that will take kids without their shots . wtf ? are all these assholes taking their kids to private schools ? wtf !?!?!
 
2014-03-27 10:57:35 PM  

JohnnyApocalypse: Pattuq:

The numbers are horseshiat, that's why.  They apply the "Autism" label to anyone who has any sort of social difficulty so they can sell those people drugs.

Tetzlaff: umudbro: Autism researcher here.

It's caused by helicopter parents, snowflake syndrome and lazy MDs who can't find anything wrong with the kid and use it as a "go to" excuse or something they can tell angry parents so that they leave happy.

You waste your time on a mostly fictive "fashion disease". Maybe you want to look into some real problems like diabetes or Alzheimer's.

I'm not sure how "fashionable" it is to shop for an Autism diagnosis, but I do know it's quite "fashionable" to make blanket obtstructive and antagonistic remarks for the sake of collecting feedback... also known as "trolling" and "bites". For example, take the thread's headline. That there's a troll. However, as has been stated multiple times, that is an inventive troll that leans toward the snarky and humorous rather than the blatantly vitriolic.

Now with you two, I don't know if you're just standard internet tough guys who "know better", or just attention whores seeking negative feedback for your "trolling". In either case, if you actually knew more about what you spoke of, your choice of post might be a bit different. Having some anecdote of knowing a farkwad who calls his recalcitrant son "autistic" isn't evidence that this here is just a faddish concocted epidemic.

In other words... refrain from posting and do some research... or go back to 4chan and bone up on trolling.


I'm a salesman for a major pharmaceutical company.  We push drugs on doctors every day, regardless of whether or not it's ethical.  I have rarely met a doctor who can't be convinced of the value (economic, of course) of championing specific medications.  If you are suggesting that autism diagnoses for drug sales are nonsense based on anecdotal evidence, it seems to me you've never been involved in the industry and shouldn't be talking about the subject as if you were a sage.
 
2014-03-27 10:59:28 PM  
HOTY, if we're talking about what's real.
 
2014-03-27 11:02:46 PM  

umudbro: But saying it is a fictitious disease is not accurate.. There are too many documented physical pathologies and genetics linked with genuine autism. And while the overarching symptoms are diagnosed based on social cues, there are very real underlying physical abnormalities that predispose people to those actions and cognitive difficulties.

Of course social cues are not the best metric, and ASD is a catchall for what could be hundreds if not thousands of underlying disorders.


A wastebasket diagnosis is pretty much the definition of a fictitious disease.

/a thing is that many things is probably nothing at all...
 
2014-03-27 11:39:25 PM  
There's people that have not been vaccinated that believe that just because they're not getting sick, vaccines are something you should just freely be able to chose to get.

There's people that drive drunk and kill no one. So think about that.
 
2014-03-27 11:53:35 PM  

zeio: hardinparamedic: Loreweaver: Stop diluting the definition of Autism to include brats with self-entitled helicopter parents!

Humor us and define Autism.

As a bonus, which of the diagnostic criteria of the DSM-V for autism and social development disorders do you disagree with, and why?

You should not expect anyone here to read the DSM - they are just armchair interneters that think this is all fun and games until one of their kids or relatives are diagnosed with an ASD.


Wait doesn't everyone have a DSM-V at home?

/Maybe on their kindle
//ISBN  9780890425558
///C'mon you can even rent it
 
2014-03-27 11:56:04 PM  

zeio: Shazam999: People have totally forgotten about the raging polio epidemics that occurred that totally shut down cities

People also forget the only route that polio is spread is feces being ingested. Look it up. Maybe if there wasnt a tolerable amount of poop in food and on unwashed hands...


Do you know, historically, what fertilizer is?
 
2014-03-28 12:03:49 AM  
Damn, two links like this greened today. People really need to start reading the articles before commenting.
 
2014-03-28 12:08:57 AM  

Bumblefark: umudbro: But saying it is a fictitious disease is not accurate.. There are too many documented physical pathologies and genetics linked with genuine autism. And while the overarching symptoms are diagnosed based on social cues, there are very real underlying physical abnormalities that predispose people to those actions and cognitive difficulties.

Of course social cues are not the best metric, and ASD is a catchall for what could be hundreds if not thousands of underlying disorders.
A wastebasket diagnosis is pretty much the definition of a fictitious disease.

/a thing is that many things is probably nothing at all...


It's not a wastebasket diagnosis.  It has very distinct symptoms.  Even moreso, we are learning that autism has very distinct underlying physical symptoms as well.  It has a chemical signature.

That is why there are worries that vaccines, paternal age, ultrasound, etc. are risk factors for autism.  Some theories have feasible mechanisms.  Kind of like if you hear a certain clunk in a car you can figure out what the problem is.
 
2014-03-28 12:13:55 AM  
To clarify:
There are several distinct issues within the Autism Spectrum Disorders, and ASD is a broad ranging diagnosis...but for the more specific diagnoses of autism, asperger's, etc there are some distinct signatures.  They have genetic markers and have documented pathology.  Real stuff, not fictitious.

There is lots more to learn about them though.
 
2014-03-28 12:55:51 AM  

umudbro: Bumblefark: umudbro: But saying it is a fictitious disease is not accurate.. There are too many documented physical pathologies and genetics linked with genuine autism. And while the overarching symptoms are diagnosed based on social cues, there are very real underlying physical abnormalities that predispose people to those actions and cognitive difficulties.

Of course social cues are not the best metric, and ASD is a catchall for what could be hundreds if not thousands of underlying disorders.
A wastebasket diagnosis is pretty much the definition of a fictitious disease.

/a thing is that many things is probably nothing at all...

It's not a wastebasket diagnosis.  It has very distinct symptoms.  Even moreso, we are learning that autism has very distinct underlying physical symptoms as well.  It has a chemical signature.

That is why there are worries that vaccines, paternal age, ultrasound, etc. are risk factors for autism.  Some theories have feasible mechanisms.  Kind of like if you hear a certain clunk in a car you can figure out what the problem is.


So...it's a "catchall for what could be hundreds if not thousands of underlying disorders," all of which happen to share a common and well-defined symptomology/physiology/chemistry?

Meh. I'll play along. If it's such a tidy and uniform thing, empirically, what's the basis for speculating that there might be some innumerable different disorders causing it?
 
2014-03-28 01:26:21 AM  
Vaccinate them like bison, just wait until you get a clear shot. Kinda like the waist gunner in "Platoon".
 
2014-03-28 01:34:26 AM  
My son is 10 years old. He just learned to verbalized 3-word sentences this last year. His speech is so slurred, only relatives and teachers understand him after months of exposure. He is in the 3rd grade.

He was diagnosed with pure autism at 2 years old. That type of autism has a 1 in 1000 occurance, even now. This is important for people to understand. Autism Spectrum Disorder may be 1 in 100 or whatever (changes yearly), but the diagnosis of "Autism" as a stand alone word - the kind that is obviously not just bad behavior (Rain Man) - is a hell of a lot lower.

Just something to keep in mind. Rain Man autism is much more rare, but that doesn't mean anyone with autism can grow up to be a businessman with a family if beaten enough.

I don't think the "pure Autism" diagnosis exists in the new DSM, but the explanation is still accurate and relevant. The severity levels in children and adults with autism vary WILDLY. Expecting the term "autism" to accurately illustrate them all is ludacris.
 
2014-03-28 01:40:39 AM  

hardinparamedic: Loreweaver: All 4 can be applied to 90% of all children under the age of 12.

The other half of the problem is that parents (and far too many physicians) seem to think that a kid with a lot of pent-up energy or throwing a temper tantrum is automatically a sign of ASD. Or, the parents just want an excuse to medicate their child instead of disciplining them, or even just taking an active role in raising them.

Actually, I agree with you one one thing: Family Doctors and General Pediatricians have no business diagnosing autism outside of infancy, or really any mental health issue. They should be referring these kids to actual pediatric psychiatry practices for evaluation, diagnosis, and treatment.

But, to be blunt, it sounds less like you're concerned with misdiagnosis of children based on the failings of the parents, and more with the concern that your autistic child could be lumped together with the likes of people like Chris Chambers and most of 4Chan. It's defined as a spectrum for a reason.


You are right. I don't like the idea of someone who is truly Autistic being lumped into the same group with the average kid throwing a temper tantrum at the supermarket, just because it is convenient and trendy to classify most behavior problems as "Autism Spectrum".

But, the reason they are getting lumped together is *because* of years of parental pressure on doctors to "fix" behavior problems which actually stem from a lack of parenting. I say this as someone with 25 years of personal parenting experience, as someone who grew up being a surrogate parent to 5 younger siblings over the years. I am talking the whole deal, from diapers to graduation...

I say this as someone who has demonstrated firsthand how much a child's behavior changes when you don't talk down to them, actually listen to what they have to say, explain *why* they should or shouldn't do something, in a way they can understand and respect, and thank them for good behavior. Notice I said *thank* them , not just praise them.
 
2014-03-28 01:46:47 AM  
So...it's a "catchall for what could be hundreds if not thousands of underlying disorders," all of which happen to share a common and well-defined symptomology/physiology/chemistry?

Meh. I'll play along. If it's such a tidy and uniform thing, empirically, what's the basis for speculating that there might be some innumerable different disorders causing it?


They have distinct symptoms, not well defined.  It's not very tidy, but patterns are emerging.

To clarify: Autism Spectrum Disorders is the catchall term.  There are 5 subclasses of ASD in the current DSM: Rett's Syndrome, Childhood Disintigrative Disorder, Asperger's Syndrome, Classical Autism, and Pervasive Developmental Disorder-Not Yet Specified.

A rudimentary wiki search will show a variety of patterns emergent in each population, and there are numerous research articles picking out specific genetic sequences and biomarkers for each.

The rub is that we see the tip of the ice berg.  People's bodies are very complicated and made of many smaller moving parts.  There could be many different problems with the same manifestation, hence the numerous underlying disorders leading to similar issues.

Since autism was first discovered through social cues, we have to work backgrounds from the social to the physical in order to figure out the problem that's really going on underneath.  Lots of patterns are lining up.  It will get more clear with time, but more research is needed.
 
2014-03-28 01:50:39 AM  

JPSimonetti: My son is 10 years old. He just learned to verbalized 3-word sentences this last year.


Stop tutoring him.
 
2014-03-28 02:04:07 AM  

umudbro: So...it's a "catchall for what could be hundreds if not thousands of underlying disorders," all of which happen to share a common and well-defined symptomology/physiology/chemistry?

Meh. I'll play along. If it's such a tidy and uniform thing, empirically, what's the basis for speculating that there might be some innumerable different disorders causing it?

They have distinct symptoms, not well defined.  It's not very tidy, but patterns are emerging.

To clarify: Autism Spectrum Disorders is the catchall term.  There are 5 subclasses of ASD in the current DSM: Rett's Syndrome, Childhood Disintigrative Disorder, Asperger's Syndrome, Classical Autism, and Pervasive Developmental Disorder-Not Yet Specified.

A rudimentary wiki search will show a variety of patterns emergent in each population, and there are numerous research articles picking out specific genetic sequences and biomarkers for each.

The rub is that we see the tip of the ice berg.  People's bodies are very complicated and made of many smaller moving parts.  There could be many different problems with the same manifestation, hence the numerous underlying disorders leading to similar issues.

Since autism was first discovered through social cues, we have to work backgrounds from the social to the physical in order to figure out the problem that's really going on underneath.  Lots of patterns are lining up.  It will get more clear with time, but more research is needed.


Yeah, I saw your follow-up only after I posted. Otherwise, I would have picked another angle. Point I was trying to get to:

Basically, I think we agree that it really isn't a "spectrum" (one thing in varying degrees) so much as a hodgepodge (many things, collected under one label). The only difference between (your) "catchall" and (my) "wastebasket" is that I tend to think that there's been a whole lot of junk diagnoses thrown in there, as well.

/I do find your optimism remarkable, though. The idea that clinical constructs not initially derived from etiological research (or any sort of empirical research, actually) will nevertheless be validated and explained by the same...that's quite a leap of faith. :)
 
2014-03-28 02:33:46 AM  
 
Basically, I think we agree that it really isn't a "spectrum" (one thing in varying degrees) so much as a hodgepodge (many things, collected under one label). The only difference between (your) "catchall" and (my) "wastebasket" is that I tend to think that there's been a whole lot of junk diagnoses thrown in there, as well.


It is kind of both a hodgepodge and spectrum.  It is a spectrum in that there are many varying degrees of the same presentations.  It is a hodgepodge in that the symptoms are so commonplace there is much overlap with other disorders and the general public.

And not to mention the dsm keeps changing, ...farking thing.  That's made epidemiology hell and my life hell and everything is hell.  (balancing the optimism with reality)

But progress has been made on etiology.  We have made some serious connections now, and animal models are becoming more useful.  Although autism animal models are still in their infancy.
 
2014-03-28 02:55:50 AM  
Bravo, subby
 
2014-03-28 03:14:20 AM  

umudbro: And not to mention the dsm keeps changing, ...farking thing. That's made epidemiology hell and my life hell and everything is hell. (balancing the optimism with reality)


Heh. I worked the clinical side, once upon a time; I lost optimism a long time ago. Would be nice to see research taking a greater lead.

Stuff like this gives me hope, tho.
 
2014-03-28 06:51:02 AM  
static.comicvine.com
 
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