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(Kickstarter)   So, the Oculus Rift creators have sold their Kickstarter-backed company to Facebook for $2 Billion, what's so ironic about that? (read page to find out)   (kickstarter.com) divider line 107
    More: Ironic, eyes, creator deity, WhatsApp, steam engines, Morpheus, breaching experiment, data mining  
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5976 clicks; posted to Geek » on 27 Mar 2014 at 10:14 AM (16 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-03-27 08:59:32 AM
So, for the last two days, all I've seen are morons insisting that "LOL YOU SHOULDA KNOWN THAT IF FAECBUCKS BUYS EM OUT WELL U SHOULDA KNOWN YOU WERE GONA GET SCREWED."

Someone link me to the article or forum post which warned that Kickstarter would become a staging ground for large corporations to come in and buy out the grass roots efforts.  Because I cannot find it.
 
2014-03-27 09:51:36 AM
At least the guys that threw $5,000 or more into it will get to fly out to Oculus labs and watch everybody else make ka-ching noises and go into early retirement.  Heck they might even throw in a t-shirt and name their first yacht after them.
 
2014-03-27 10:07:14 AM
This has got to be the best record to find every person who should be involved in a class action lawsuit ever. No need for public notices to be posted, just send out and email to each person who kicked in on this project.
 
2014-03-27 10:19:36 AM
farm6.staticflickr.com
 
2014-03-27 10:21:26 AM

Mike_LowELL: Someone link me to the article or forum post which warned that Kickstarter would become a staging ground for large corporations to come in and buy out the grass roots efforts.


There's a couple smaller examples of it happening before to various degrees. Gridiron Thunder was a horrific abortion of a game made by a non-game entity as a way to get investment money, on top of a couple other Ouya related examples. The main thing there was that people were looking more to leverage kickstarter with a non-product. The only real novel thing about what Facebook is doing is leveraging a product with a non-service.

Unless you're pointing out that the gamestream media are pretty horrible at predicting anything, in which case my only comment is that it's surprising nobody's called the OR a roguelike yet.
 
2014-03-27 10:24:17 AM
The people who dislike Facebook are the same mouth breathing neck beards who dislike Windows because it gives them internet street cred, and no other reason. As soon as no one isn't looking they are going to post a cat picture and like something witty posted from George Takei.
 
2014-03-27 10:27:03 AM
Once you get over the initial "Facebook is going to ruin this," there really are a lot of non-gaming applications for VR: medical therapies, virtual tourism, etc. You could take a tour of the house you're planning to build or walk around Machu Pichu without the hike. I would still be wary of Facebook having information about what I looked at, for how long though.
 
2014-03-27 10:30:13 AM

Baelz: The people who dislike Facebook are the same mouth breathing neck beards who dislike Windows because it gives them internet street cred, and no other reason. As soon as no one isn't looking they are going to post a cat picture and like something witty posted from George Takei.


6/10..
 
2014-03-27 10:34:33 AM
not one person in this fark thread has pointed out that they are not connected to facebook in the kickstarter.
 
2014-03-27 10:36:02 AM
I just new Oculus was bad news when they tricked Amy Pond into eating a light bulb.
 
2014-03-27 10:37:37 AM

Barry Lyndon's Annuity Cheque: Once you get over the initial "Facebook is going to ruin this," there really are a lot of non-gaming applications for VR: medical therapies, virtual tourism, etc. You could take a tour of the house you're planning to build or walk around Machu Pichu without the hike. I would still be wary of Facebook having information about what I looked at, for how long though.


I don't see Facebook as a good company for developing any of that though. This catches me as patent farming. I'd bet money they will have more staff working on patent lawsuits then engineers working on actual applications.
 
2014-03-27 10:39:29 AM
Kickstarter - it's like being a VC 'angel', except that you're poor.
 
2014-03-27 10:41:33 AM
My initial reaction to this was nerdrage, but after some time to digest (and read other opinions out there) I've pretty much come to the conclusion that I don't care all that much.  I want the hardware.  This doesn't make it LESS likely that the hardware will be available.

As far as all the crap that facebook puts on it, it will be jailbroken within a few weeks at most.
 
2014-03-27 10:42:51 AM
Not far down that thread, some guy talks about how he invested in OR.

He's wrong. He didn't invest anything. He donated an amount that he agreed wasn't too much to receive a copy of the hardware.

http://m.dictionary.com/definition/in vest

Being a backer on Kickstarter is not the same as being an investor.
 
2014-03-27 10:45:48 AM

sprawl15: There's a couple smaller examples of it happening before to various degrees. Gridiron Thunder was a horrific abortion of a game made by a non-game entity as a way to get investment money, on top of a couple other Ouya related examples. The main thing there was that people were looking more to leverage kickstarter with a non-product. The only real novel thing about what Facebook is doing is leveraging a product with a non-service.

Unless you're pointing out that the gamestream media are pretty horrible at predicting anything, in which case my only comment is that it's surprising nobody's called the OR a roguelike yet.


I'm moreso commenting on the retrospective omnipotence of everyone involved in the large discussion over the topic.  Everybody (correctly) knew that the Kickstarter model could be used as a scam, or used to fund ventures that may not pan out merely for the sheer incompetence of the people being funded, or could later be used to fund precisely the business ventures that a philanthropic effort should not be funding.  I just haven't seen anyone anticipate that large companies were going to start gobbling up these projects, in spite of the gargantuan number of people who have now taken that side of the issue.

(Even though the Oculus Rift is going to be the best roguelike, with its procedurally-generated graphics and its permadeath hardware design, where once something fizzles out, the thing is dead for good.)
 
2014-03-27 10:49:50 AM

Mike_LowELL: sprawl15: There's a couple smaller examples of it happening before to various degrees. Gridiron Thunder was a horrific abortion of a game made by a non-game entity as a way to get investment money, on top of a couple other Ouya related examples. The main thing there was that people were looking more to leverage kickstarter with a non-product. The only real novel thing about what Facebook is doing is leveraging a product with a non-service.

Unless you're pointing out that the gamestream media are pretty horrible at predicting anything, in which case my only comment is that it's surprising nobody's called the OR a roguelike yet.

I'm moreso commenting on the retrospective omnipotence of everyone involved in the large discussion over the topic.  Everybody (correctly) knew that the Kickstarter model could be used as a scam, or used to fund ventures that may not pan out merely for the sheer incompetence of the people being funded, or could later be used to fund precisely the business ventures that a philanthropic effort should not be funding.  I just haven't seen anyone anticipate that large companies were going to start gobbling up these projects, in spite of the gargantuan number of people who have now taken that side of the issue.

(Even though the Oculus Rift is going to be the best roguelike, with its procedurally-generated graphics and its permadeath hardware design, where once something fizzles out, the thing is dead for good.)


Should have used the block-chain system to keep track of what contributors actually 'own' or are to recieve contractually.  Oh well I guess crowd funding falls short of actual arbitrage.
 
2014-03-27 10:55:11 AM

img.fark.net


They pretty much spelled it out at the start that the objective was making vr a reality.
That was going to take money. A lot more than kick starters ever produced.

Given the option of hacking it out as an underdog for years, or taking the cash and going straight to the endgame, they'd have been silky not to cash in those chips.

/and it seems like everyone on the project is still on it.
/and now the hardware will be better.
/and they say they've still got their independence to design.
/if there's a problem, it hasn't surfaced yet.

 
2014-03-27 10:56:33 AM

Mike_LowELL: I just haven't seen anyone anticipate that large companies were going to start gobbling up these projects, in spite of the gargantuan number of people who have now taken that side of the issue.


There's a number of major game devs who have taken to Kickstarter for projects when they think they can get the money. Project Eternity, off the top of my head, is an Obsidian project. And it's been shown over and over again (like with that retarded MDE pony farking simulator or whatever they're making) that the only obligation kickstarted companies have is to vaguely fulfill the backer rewards. The only real surprising things are that it's Facebook that's jumping in, and that they're jumping in specifically to establish themselves as middlemen in the secondary markets when the primary market has yet to be created. It's a farking bizarre business move, to be sure, but only because of the timing.

I think of it kind of like the MtGox thing with Bitcoin; sure, nobody really predicted that specific thing would happen when it did but that doesn't mean the people saying nerds should have appreciated the obvious instability of bitcoin exchanges are hindsight enhanced naysayers.
 
2014-03-27 10:57:39 AM

Mike_LowELL: So, for the last two days, all I've seen are morons insisting that "LOL YOU SHOULDA KNOWN THAT IF FAECBUCKS BUYS EM OUT WELL U SHOULDA KNOWN YOU WERE GONA GET SCREWED."

Someone link me to the article or forum post which warned that Kickstarter would become a staging ground for large corporations to come in and buy out the grass roots efforts.  Because I cannot find it.


I don't think "shoulda known" means what you think it means
 
2014-03-27 10:59:29 AM
I've backed a few games and I would not be happy if, during development, a major video game publisher saw how strong the interest was in the game and offered to buy it; the original developer accepting the offer and then having the new owner force changes to the game because they want to appeal to CoD players.

It's not an apples to apples comparison, nor did I back OR, but I can see why people are upset since we don't know what changes, if any, Facebook will force on the final product. But in the end, backers don't have any real recourse.
 
2014-03-27 11:07:48 AM
Even though Facebook disgusts me, I think this will be good.  A shiat-ton of money to pump into building proper technology rather than cobbling techno-scraps from Chinese overruns.
 
2014-03-27 11:08:52 AM

Mike_LowELL: Someone link me to the article or forum post which warned that Kickstarter would become a staging ground for large corporations to come in and buy out the grass roots efforts.  Because I cannot find it.


Just wondering if it's in the realm of possibility Facebook was behind Oculus Rift longer than revealed, perhaps using Kickstarter as a promotional tool? Facebook can't go on Kickstarter and ask for money to get free promotion/large exposure about a product everyone is now talking about..

Also find it interesting - although the word has more than one meaning, that this situation has caused a major "rift".
 
2014-03-27 11:13:50 AM
upload.wikimedia.org
 
2014-03-27 11:14:28 AM

TDBoedy: Oh well I guess crowd funding falls short of actual arbitrage.


I'm still not particularly invested in the concept.  Other than Volgarr the Viking, a game which was otherwise done for relatively cheap, I've yet to see any game-related Kickstarter projects offer something I'm interested in.

sprawl15: There's a number of major game devs who have taken to Kickstarter for projects when they think they can get the money. Project Eternity, off the top of my head, is an Obsidian project. And it's been shown over and over again (like with that retarded MDE pony farking simulator or whatever they're making) that the only obligation kickstarted companies have is to vaguely fulfill the backer rewards. The only real surprising things are that it's Facebook that's jumping in, and that they're jumping in specifically to establish themselves as middlemen in the secondary markets when the primary market has yet to be created. It's a farking bizarre business move, to be sure, but only because of the timing.


As Enlightened Liberal pointed out, this would be like if a company funded a game, shopped it to the large publishers, got a buyer, and then made significant changes in order to fit the whims of the publisher.  Will Oculus do that?  Who knows.  Were they entitled to do it?  Most certainly.  But I think everybody understands that if they had built the hardware with the explicit purpose of shopping it to other huge companies, it would have crashed.

CMYK and PMS: I don't think "shoulda known" means what you think it means


umaddddddddddddddddddddd umaddddddddd

zvoidx: Just wondering if it's in the realm of possibility Facebook was behind Oculus Rift longer than revealed, perhaps using Kickstarter as a promotional tool? Facebook can't go on Kickstarter and ask for money to get free promotion/large exposure about a product everyone is now talking about..


I'm still holding out the possibility that the U.S. government told the company to sell the thing to Facebook so that it can be used as the new snazzy spy tool of the future.  At this point, I don't really know what to expect or to believe anymore.  It's so impossible to tell what's actually happening at this point, the only thing that matters is whether the narrative is interesting.
 
2014-03-27 11:25:13 AM
The thing is, it's not the fact that Oculus was bought out, it's that it was bought out by Facebook. People had contributed to, and were excited by, Oculus as primarily a new gaming and entertainment medium. If they had been bought by a company that specialized in those things, such as Valve, or even EA, there wouldn't have been nearly as many complaints. But Facebook's purpose is to mine user data for advertising, and supporters of the Rift don't want to see it used for that.
 
2014-03-27 11:26:55 AM
What am I supposed to take from this link? Kickstarter is a one time transaction, you are... kickstarting... something you believe in, for a small reward. That's where your relationship ends. From there, it is up to the owners.
 
2014-03-27 11:27:24 AM
Will people stop donating via Kickstarter?  Maybe.  Will the deals change so that they allow more people to share in a jackpot if it happens?  Maybe.  Will the owners of Kickstarter change their terms of use to allow for a share of a jackpot?  Maybe.  Greed does funny things to people.
 
2014-03-27 11:28:49 AM

Mike_LowELL: As Enlightened Liberal pointed out, this would be like if a company funded a game, shopped it to the large publishers, got a buyer, and then made significant changes in order to fit the whims of the publisher.


Yeah, and I'd actually disagree with them that it isn't an apples:apples comparison; it's close enough. But I'm just more saying that it's not really a surprising development given the functionality of Kickstarter. I've talked about how Kickstarter is a good first step in the alternative publishing world before, and probably the biggest reason I call it only a first step is that vulnerability to farkery.

I guess I just don't understand why there would be any reason to think that Kickstarter wouldn't eventually "become a staging ground for large corporations to come in and buy out the grass roots efforts" the moment corporations figured out all this newfangled internet language well enough to make money off it.
 
2014-03-27 11:33:02 AM
This acquisition is really going to hammer Kickstarter.
It has been exposed for what it really is.

I guess the closest equivalent to this is giving money to a homeless woman and her children and running into her later on coming out of a liquor store and getting into a BMW. You feel like your best intentions were misused by others - the very heart of a con.
 
2014-03-27 11:33:10 AM
While this doesn't hold true for every case, I see the Oculus as another device that will help continue to segregate humans from PHYSICAL contact with each other.  I'll use one of my roommates for example.  She has been a WoW gamer for years and years.  If she's not at work, she's in her room, playing WoW or some other online game with her online 'friends'.  I say 'friends' because these people only care about her as long as she continues to play the same games.  If she were to get sick and couldn't leave the house for some reason, none of these 'friends' would be there for her to help her out.

With Oculus, 'friends' become even more imaginary, as you'll be able to see them (or ideal representations of them, maybe even in unicorn form) and the virtual environment around them.  Yet, if you're not living in the imaginary world of Oculus (or WoW), where are your friends?

Yes, farkers, I understand I'm giving an example of an extreme case, not everyone is like my roommate etc., but think if VR becomes as mainstream as cellphones.  Outside of procreation, which doesn't even need human contact anymore (more or less), humans might end up living in a small box with a VR helmet on all the time, eating healthy protein paste that looks like a 5-star dinner because of VR.
 
2014-03-27 11:34:57 AM

Gnaglor: I see the Oculus as another device that will help continue to segregate humans from PHYSICAL contact with each other.


sooooomeone hasn't seen the handjob robot
 
2014-03-27 11:47:46 AM
Why are people complaining about Farmville and Candy Crush being in 3D?

I had high hopes for the OC. I even got to play with one in January. But now that I know my usage habits and information is going to be shopped around as much as if I was using google glass. No thanks. I just wanted 3D gaming.
 
2014-03-27 12:00:16 PM

Tyrone Slothrop: If they had been bought by a company that specialized in those things, such as Valve, or even EA, there wouldn't have been nearly as many complaints


I don't know about EA causing less of a scandal. They've shown that they continue to value paranoia-level strong DRM (that still gets cracked in a weekend) to the detriment of the product in question. Think online-only use, and running a check on proper licenses/illegal mods being sent out every 15 minutes (and EA has shown they see paying for servers should be based on the number of users they expect online on average and buying more for the month of the release of a major title is a waste if the frequency of play is expected to revert towards the mean later). Plus I imagine they'd jack up licensing fees for the non-first party games that want to be run on the system.

I think the main complaint is that a large chunk of fans think they were offered a false bill of sale. When investment bankers put in $75 million into the company that blew that initial $2.1 million out of the water, no one complained because they still saw it as being the original team's vision. When Facebook bought them out, people felt conflicted on the difference between what the Kickstarter seemed to envision and Facebook's goals, and the thought that the Occulus Rift crew may have intended to "sell out" from the beginning comes to their minds.

How realistic is this? Not very. The threat of being changed by committee was equally there when the venture capitalists joined the board (you have to imagine that if they started pressing for things like microtransactions it would be hard for the rest of the board to reject them.) But that's why they're mad now.
 
2014-03-27 12:00:21 PM
Maybe Zuckerberg was just trying to buy a an Oculus Rift but accidental bought the company?
 
2014-03-27 12:12:43 PM

Kevthecatslayer: Maybe Zuckerberg was just trying to buy a an Oculus Rift but accidental bought the company?


He accidentally the whole thing?
 
2014-03-27 12:15:36 PM

styckx: Baelz: The people who dislike Facebook are the same mouth breathing neck beards who dislike Windows because it gives them internet street cred, and no other reason. As soon as no one isn't looking they are going to post a cat picture and like something witty posted from George Takei.

6/10..


I think your giving Baelz to much credit.  I'm pretty sure they believe just that.  They are the drones of the major corporations who use them for cash cows.
 
2014-03-27 12:20:29 PM

Mike_LowELL: sprawl15: There's a couple smaller examples of it happening before to various degrees. Gridiron Thunder was a horrific abortion of a game made by a non-game entity as a way to get investment money, on top of a couple other Ouya related examples. The main thing there was that people were looking more to leverage kickstarter with a non-product. The only real novel thing about what Facebook is doing is leveraging a product with a non-service.

Unless you're pointing out that the gamestream media are pretty horrible at predicting anything, in which case my only comment is that it's surprising nobody's called the OR a roguelike yet.

I'm moreso commenting on the retrospective omnipotence of everyone involved in the large discussion over the topic.  Everybody (correctly) knew that the Kickstarter model could be used as a scam, or used to fund ventures that may not pan out merely for the sheer incompetence of the people being funded, or could later be used to fund precisely the business ventures that a philanthropic effort should not be funding.  I just haven't seen anyone anticipate that large companies were going to start gobbling up these projects, in spite of the gargantuan number of people who have now taken that side of the issue.

(Even though the Oculus Rift is going to be the best roguelike, with its procedurally-generated graphics and its permadeath hardware design, where once something fizzles out, the thing is dead for good.)


I thought it was always assumed that any venture that got big enough from Kickstarter would eventually be bought out or go public.  Kickstarter is NOT an investment mechanism, it is primarily a way to increase the democratization of ventures through the ultimate vote--cash money.

Now that some of the legal road blocks to true crowd investing have started to be dealt with, REAL investing could occur...and that would give the funders/investors a little more influence over what happens down the road (and I bet you most of them would have been happy to grab some of Facebook's cash in this deal).
 
2014-03-27 12:24:46 PM
I think folks forget that facebook is operated, but not owned, by a bunch of engineers who like tackling technical problems.  Facebook has made some cool stuff and made it open source.

Yes, they are now a big corporation, you can't trust a damn thing they say, and every hates USING their products, but I think that if the engineers have their way, they could make the OR pretty frickin awesome platform.

Build it, and they will come.

As for as the donors on kickstarter ... you were DONATING to a company RAISING money.  They've succeeded by any measure.  Unless you signed some agreement and they don't honor it, you have no say.
 
2014-03-27 12:27:32 PM
Fox Searchlight Studios. Grunge music. Sundance Film Festival. San Diego Comicon.

This has all been done before and it will again. Anything that is developed indie or grassroots that is seen to have an upside of profit or potential profit is always bought out, consumed, or taken over.
 
2014-03-27 12:30:35 PM
I think I'd trust Rift to put out and make cool products until Carmack leaves them. Which will happen, in sufficient time, and that will be when it all goes south.
Until then, it's probably fine, especially for the gadget-gung-ho set that line up for the newest iWhatever. But I like longevity in my hardware, and I'll be seeing what the competition (Sony) brings.
 
2014-03-27 12:31:17 PM
When Apple and Sony come out with their devices to compete against OR, a new era will begin: Stupid Looking Headgear Wars.
 
2014-03-27 12:32:32 PM
People gave money for a dev kit. They've got their dev kit months ago. What's the issue?

Just a bunch of crybaby hipsters who wanted the Rift to be something exclusive and not easily accessible to the masses. Now, thanks to Facebook, even their mom's going to be able to use a VR headset. Was it really worth backing the project if any old prole gets to use the technology?
 
2014-03-27 12:33:42 PM
Thanks to everybody who ragequit on their DK2 preorder due to foamy-mouthed facebook hate.

That means I'm that much further up the queue to get mine.
 
2014-03-27 12:35:03 PM

Kevthecatslayer: Maybe Zuckerberg was just trying to buy a an Oculus Rift but accidental bought the company?


Very funny and sadly possible all at the same time.
 
2014-03-27 12:41:32 PM

justabitdisturbed: When Apple and Sony come out with their devices to compete against OR, a new era will begin: Stupid Looking Headgear Wars.



This is an opening salve aimed directly at Google.
 
kab
2014-03-27 12:43:45 PM
Did we cover neckbeard and hipster yet?

*scrolls thread*

Of course we did.   Stay edgy, my friends.

Bottom line is that while kickstarter isn't a typical investment proposition into a given product, the general feeling is that said grassroots-built product will remain true to its original, somewhat narrow-focus intent.   Acquisition by a mega-corporation, especially one that makes money by selling personal data, spoils that notion for backers, despite whatever reassurances they're being given.
 
2014-03-27 12:52:29 PM
Facebook is marginally not as bad as Google.
 
2014-03-27 01:07:34 PM

Nemo's Brother: Facebook is marginally not as bad as Google.


Popcorn.bat

Though, it is a little late in the thread.
 
2014-03-27 01:21:47 PM

InterruptingQuirk: Kevthecatslayer: Maybe Zuckerberg was just trying to buy a an Oculus Rift but accidental bought the company?

Very funny and sadly possible all at the same time.


He thought the  $2,437,429 on the Kickstarter page was the price of a single unit, mistyped a few extra zeroes.
 
2014-03-27 01:23:21 PM

Baelz: The people who dislike Facebook are the same mouth breathing neck beards who dislike Windows because it gives them internet street cred, and no other reason. As soon as no one isn't looking they are going to post a cat picture and like something witty posted from George Takei.


Not really. I can't stand Facebook. I had an account because I kept getting bugged to get one. Got rid of it years ago. And well, I use windows almost exclusively, my phone is an S3.

I think this was bullshiat because of the post from the owner of OR about how 'open' facebook is, how they are all about the user. What a load of shiat. They are in it for the money they get from advertisers, that's it.
I'm just glad I didn't sink any money into OR.
 
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