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(NPR)   State lawmaker outraged to learn that schools are cutting back on science classes, introduces legislation to mandate that it be taught a minimum number of hours. Did subby say science? He meant a far more important subject: cursive writing   (npr.org) divider line 199
    More: Asinine, cursive, individual mandate, legislation, Steven McCrary, Common Core State Standards, lawmakers  
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2383 clicks; posted to Main » on 26 Mar 2014 at 3:38 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-03-26 01:52:19 PM  
People named Clint are less than enthused

media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com
 
2014-03-26 01:53:12 PM  
Clicked in to see which Southern state it was.  Tennessee, if you were wondering.

/Educated in Tennessee public schools, hasn't written in cursive in 30 plus years.
 
2014-03-26 02:00:41 PM  
I refused to learn cursive writing on general principles when I was in third grade. Sure it cost me some library privileges but I was right all along. I designed my entire signature, the one I still use today, as a direct rebellion against them telling me how to write my proper letter properly.
 
2014-03-26 02:01:15 PM  
Learning cursive is only important if you move to work for Hank Scorpio.
 
2014-03-26 02:11:09 PM  
31.media.tumblr.com
 
2014-03-26 02:26:08 PM  
I have mixed feelings about cursive writing. The 3rd grade teachers were always struggling to find the time to teach even D'Nealian writing when I taught in inner-city Phoenix. Language Arts ate up most of the day because of the kids' low English language skills. The Gen X-ers were probably the last complete generation to be taught mandatory cursive. For some kids now, it's like trying to read Arabic. I had quite a few students, though, who could write different gang scripts, and not because they were in gangs, but because it was just part of the culture around them. And their writing was beautiful. It was art. They didn't learn it in school; they practiced it on their own -- meticulously. If you want kids to learn cursive, make it part of popular culture or teach it in art class, because it's a waste of valuable instruction time.

A good art teacher could teach beautiful cursive in one semester of one grade level.
 
2014-03-26 02:35:51 PM  
Useless skill. My 4th grade teacher was convinced I'd never make it in the world unless I learned to write in cursive and I haven't used it since.
 
2014-03-26 02:39:01 PM  
I'll bet these are the same derpers vehemently opposed to common core as well.
 
2014-03-26 03:14:03 PM  
Might as well teach Basic programming.
 
2014-03-26 03:15:11 PM  
Cursive made sense as an alternative to printing for writing out essays and papers.  I learned it in the mid 90s under exactly those justifications.  Then computers happened.

If we want to hold on to it for cultural or artistic value, sure, but it's hardly practical.
 
2014-03-26 03:20:05 PM  
img.fark.net
 
2014-03-26 03:24:55 PM  
cursive was invented because people used quill-type pens and the ink would blotch if you stopped moving it. It's about as useful as macrame in 2014 though.
 
2014-03-26 03:42:17 PM  
I stopped using cursive over 35 years ago except for my signature, which looks like it was done by an epileptic on a pogo stick.
 
2014-03-26 03:43:21 PM  
DNRTFA, but the closest thing to a valid argument I've heard is that, as ecmoRandomNumbers wrote, for some kids it's like reading Arabic and educators want kids to be able to read things like the Constitution in its original format.
 
2014-03-26 03:43:59 PM  

UberDave: [img.fark.net image 666x360]


I was going to make the same reference. Holy cow!
 
2014-03-26 03:44:16 PM  
The only cursive I use now is to sign my name.
 
2014-03-26 03:44:20 PM  
I still use cursive.  Glad I learned it.
 
2014-03-26 03:46:23 PM  
I know "hell," "damn...."

/not THAT kind of cursive. Well, carry on, then.
 
2014-03-26 03:47:03 PM  
My second grade teacher told my mother that my writing was awful, but not to sweat it because by the time I grew up I'd be typing everything. That would have been around 1986. Mrs. Rothell was prophetic.
 
2014-03-26 03:48:07 PM  
Montessori kids; they learn cursive *before* learning to print, and are expected to use it pretty much all the time.  It's not a separate class, it's just part of every lesson and all work they do.
 
2014-03-26 03:48:12 PM  

timujin: DNRTFA, but the closest thing to a valid argument I've heard is that, as ecmoRandomNumbers wrote, for some kids it's like reading Arabic and educators want kids to be able to read things like the Constitution in its original format.


That seems like a perfectly reasonable and compelling argument, actually.
 
2014-03-26 03:48:26 PM  

groppet: The only cursive I use now is to sign my name.


Which is the sticking point if kids NEVER learn cursive at all in the future.  I don't think we want block letter signatures, do we?

That and the ability to not be able to read old documents/writings are the only arguments to keeping it around at some level.  Having it as a sign of being educated (kinda like learning Latin) is truly pointless today.
 
2014-03-26 03:49:27 PM  

Confabulat: cursive was invented because people used quill-type pens and the ink would blotch if you stopped moving it. It's about as useful as macrame in 2014 though.


Came here to say this. If you're into fountain pens, cursive is your gateway to beautiful writing.

I got more usefulness out of the 8th grade shop teacher who wouldn't accept written work unless it was in all-caps architectural text. Suddenly my crappy handwriting could be made legible. I still write in all caps over twenty years later when I've gotta actually pick up a pen.
 
2014-03-26 03:49:35 PM  

timujin: DNRTFA, but the closest thing to a valid argument I've heard is that, as ecmoRandomNumbers wrote, for some kids it's like reading Arabic and educators want kids to be able to read things like the Constitution in its original format.


Montessori schools teach cursive writing first because it's actually easier for kids to make the loops and shiat of cursive than it is all the straight lines.
 
2014-03-26 03:49:35 PM  

MFAWG: timujin: DNRTFA, but the closest thing to a valid argument I've heard is that, as ecmoRandomNumbers wrote, for some kids it's like reading Arabic and educators want kids to be able to read things like the Constitution in its original format.

That seems like a perfectly reasonable and compelling argument, actually.


It doesn't really say much about the value of being able to write cursive though.
 
2014-03-26 03:49:38 PM  
I know cursive.  For instance:

Sally bought eggs and swizzle sticks at that store.

Now, in cursive:

That cocksucking biatch Sally bought some farking eggs and goddamn swizzle sticks at that shiatty store.

/amidoinitrite?
 
2014-03-26 03:50:49 PM  

timujin: DNRTFA, but the closest thing to a valid argument I've heard is that, as ecmoRandomNumbers wrote, for some kids it's like reading Arabic and educators want kids to be able to read things like the Constitution in its original format.


You can teach the reading without teaching the writing, and probably in less time.
 
2014-03-26 03:50:53 PM  
If they are going to get rid of cursive, that is fine.  But all documents will have to have the "Signature" line removed and something put in its place.
 
2014-03-26 03:50:56 PM  
I don't care if kids learn how to write in cursive. Other than a signature I can't remember the last time I wrote in cursive. I do think it's important for kids to be able to read cursive. A lot of amazing documents relating to the history of our country are in cursive, and I think that at some point we should all be able to read them.

/assuming schools are still helping teach kids to read...
// I honestly have no idea what they are teaching in schools these days.
/// Gonna put a "get off my lawn" sign up in cursive.
 
2014-03-26 03:51:16 PM  
Cursive is dumb. I can write and read it, but it's entirely unnecessary to teach it to kids today. I doubt the fate of mankind is ever going to hinge upon one person's expert knowledge of cursive (for those who are tempted to cite the precedent of Navajo code talkers during WWII).

I only use cursive to sign my name. All other handwriting is done in block-style text.
 
2014-03-26 03:51:24 PM  

groppet: The only cursive I use now is to sign my name.


That's what the mrs. and I wonder about - if one doesn't learn cursive, how does one sign things? (With kids starting school, this question isn't purely academic).

/not that my signature is particularly recignizable cursive lettering, but it sort of started out that way...
 
2014-03-26 03:51:32 PM  
The only thing I ever used cursive for was filling out checks. A few months ago or so ago I was like "screw it" and started using my regular print chickenscratch to fill those out, too.

*sigh*
 
2014-03-26 03:52:27 PM  
The only cursive I've used in 30 years is my signature.  Things come and go as they are important knowledge need to function.  We used to stress how to take down a mastodon but as that skill has become less and less important in daily life it was replace with more current skills.
 
2014-03-26 03:52:32 PM  

scarmig: Montessori kids; they learn cursive *before* learning to print, and are expected to use it pretty much all the time.  It's not a separate class, it's just part of every lesson and all work they do.


Damn, I'm glad my kids go to public schools.

They learn to print, yes, but they also learn to type, using a word processor.

/Yes, even in elementary school.
 
2014-03-26 03:53:51 PM  

DontMakeMeComeBackThere: I don't think we want block letter signatures, do we?


We should be ditching handwritten signatures as security measures anyway, and moving toward something cryptographically secure. Same goes for other traditional security measures like company letterhead.
 
2014-03-26 03:54:46 PM  

noblewolf: If they are going to get rid of cursive, that is fine.  But all documents will have to have the "Signature" line removed and something put in its place.


Gaseous Anomaly: groppet: The only cursive I use now is to sign my name.

That's what the mrs. and I wonder about - if one doesn't learn cursive, how does one sign things? (With kids starting school, this question isn't purely academic).

/not that my signature is particularly recignizable cursive lettering, but it sort of started out that way...


There is no requirement, in the United States at least, that your signature be in cursive. I know several people who's aren't. Even a simple X or any other mark that you adopt as your signature works.
 
2014-03-26 03:55:21 PM  
I believe that cursive, which is generally much less clear than print, has an associated death count higher than Jenny McCarthy.
 
2014-03-26 03:55:46 PM  
If I didnt learn cursive, I don't think I would have made it through school.  The short hand note taking technique was largely based on cursive.  I guess, people type notes these days or the professors provide PP slides.  I would not have been able to take the notes I did if I did them in print.
 
2014-03-26 03:57:09 PM  
I think the root of the problem is common core taking away local control from the states and schools.

The Gates Foundation conspiracy to bilk our country for billions, track our kids from cradle to workforce to grave.

Look it up, it is some creepy shiat that will leave anybody who knows the truth enraged.
 
2014-03-26 03:57:20 PM  

Menace II Sobriety: noblewolf: If they are going to get rid of cursive, that is fine.  But all documents will have to have the "Signature" line removed and something put in its place.

Gaseous Anomaly: groppet: The only cursive I use now is to sign my name.

That's what the mrs. and I wonder about - if one doesn't learn cursive, how does one sign things? (With kids starting school, this question isn't purely academic).

/not that my signature is particularly recignizable cursive lettering, but it sort of started out that way...

There is no requirement, in the United States at least, that your signature be in cursive. I know several people who's aren't. Even a simple X or any other mark that you adopt as your signature works.


That was pretty common in prior centuries when far less of the population was literate.
 
2014-03-26 03:58:27 PM  
I proctor the SAT at a local high school when it rolls around. One part is for the students to copy a certification statement, 2-3 sentences, IN CURSIVE. They all gasp, then it takes about 30 minutes.

/quick hundred bucks
 
2014-03-26 03:59:01 PM  
Handwriting experts say they are often called in before or during a JCAHO inspection to prove that hospitals are working on the issue, or after a recommendation for improvement, to demonstrate that the institution is making corrections. ... They teach doctors to "slow down to speed up" by printing or using a combination of print and cursive with semiconnected letters. Physicians are advised to put a sharp angle on a quotation mark (") so it doesn't look like a 2, to close their a's and b's and lose the superfluous loops that foster illegibility.
 
2014-03-26 03:59:12 PM  
Edwardian Script works for me when I want my notes to be kla$$y as fark.
 
2014-03-26 04:00:14 PM  

timujin: DNRTFA, but the closest thing to a valid argument I've heard is that, as ecmoRandomNumbers wrote, for some kids it's like reading Arabic and educators want kids to be able to read things like the Constitution in its original format.


That'f a ftupid reafon!
 
2014-03-26 04:01:21 PM  

Wellon Dowd: timujin: DNRTFA, but the closest thing to a valid argument I've heard is that, as ecmoRandomNumbers wrote, for some kids it's like reading Arabic and educators want kids to be able to read things like the Constitution in its original format.

That'f a ftupid reafon!


Thank you.  I could not come up with a way to fhoehorn it into this thread.
 
2014-03-26 04:01:57 PM  
Cursive is not needed to use the expensive computer systems that Common Core requires be purchased by the States and schools.  The workplace has no use for cursive either so there is no profit in allowing kids to be taught cursive.  That is why it is gone.
 
2014-03-26 04:02:49 PM  

timujin: educators want kids to be able to read things like the Constitution in its original format


There's no reason to read the hastily-engrossed and error-filled original copy of the constitution. The handwriting does not in any way influence the content, and the document was typeset immediately afterward for distribution to the public -- the authors fully intended that most people would read a printed copy, not the original.

Not to mention changes in English since the document was written -- in particular the spelling is significantly different than what we teach today -- meaning that knowledge of cursive is only a small part of what you need to know to read the original correctly.

http://www.archives.gov/publications/prologue/2012/fall/const-errors .h tml
 
2014-03-26 04:02:54 PM  

James!: Useless skill. My 4th grade teacher was convinced I'd never make it in the world unless I learned to write in cursive and I haven't used it since.


The fact that you're on Fark with us doesn't speak well for your counter-argument to your 4th grade teacher,
 
2014-03-26 04:04:48 PM  

Wellon Dowd: timujin: DNRTFA, but the closest thing to a valid argument I've heard is that, as ecmoRandomNumbers wrote, for some kids it's like reading Arabic and educators want kids to be able to read things like the Constitution in its original format.

That'f a ftupid reafon!


Ha. Woody says something similar in one of the last episodes of Cheers when he's running for City Council...
 
2014-03-26 04:05:08 PM  

profplump: timujin: educators want kids to be able to read things like the Constitution in its original format

There's no reason to read the hastily-engrossed and error-filled original copy of the constitution. The handwriting does not in any way influence the content, and the document was typeset immediately afterward for distribution to the public -- the authors fully intended that most people would read a printed copy, not the original.

Not to mention changes in English since the document was written -- in particular the spelling is significantly different than what we teach today -- meaning that knowledge of cursive is only a small part of what you need to know to read the original correctly.

http://www.archives.gov/publications/prologue/2012/fall/const-errors .h tml


"...things like..."
 
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