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(CBS4Denver - KCNC)   "Parents have the constitutional right to parent their children. I am not an uneducated woman" says woman to lawmakers intent on restricting immunization 'opt outs'. Right to choose vs herd immunity in CO. This will be a rational debate   (denver.cbslocal.com ) divider line
    More: Interesting, capitols, state capitols, constitutional right, herd immunity, immunizations, lawmakers, parents, United States dollar  
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3303 clicks; posted to Main » on 26 Mar 2014 at 1:27 PM (2 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-03-26 09:49:47 AM  
""We've seen just a skyrocketing autism rate. Some people are suspicious that it's connected to the vaccines. This person included."
-- bho 2008
 
2014-03-26 09:55:04 AM  

OnlyM3: ""We've seen just a skyrocketing autism rate. Some people are suspicious that it's connected to the vaccines. This person included."
-- bho 2008


Why don't you include the rest of the quote:

The science right now is inconclusive, but we have to research it.

We have researched it. No link.
 
2014-03-26 10:00:57 AM  

OnlyM3: We've seen just a skyrocketing autism rate. Some people are suspicious that it's connected to the vaccines. This person included


You know he was referring to someone in the audience, right?
 
2014-03-26 10:37:30 AM  
ginandbacon [TotalFark]
2014-03-26 10:00:57 AM

OnlyM3: We've seen just a skyrocketing autism rate. Some people are suspicious that it's connected to the vaccines. This person included

You know he was referring to someone in the audience, right?

Citation please.
 
2014-03-26 10:39:54 AM  
ginandbacon [TotalFark]


>>> OnlyM3: We've seen just a skyrocketing autism rate. Some people are suspicious that it's
>>> connected to the vaccines. This person included

You know he was referring to someone in the audience, right?

Citation please.

The teleprompter's very next line was...

"The science right now is inconclusive, but we have to research it."

He's talking about himself.
 
2014-03-26 10:44:29 AM  
I am committed to make investments to find the causes of autism, including possible environmental causes like vaccines.


.We don't know what, if any, kind of link there is between vaccines and autism - but we should find out.
--clinton
 
2014-03-26 10:47:37 AM  
ginandbacon [TotalFark]

You know he was referring to someone in the audience, right?


Once he [obama] got into office, his performance on the issue didn't improve. In 2009, under the auspices of his newly elected administration, the FDA ordered a change from multi-dose to single-dose influenza vaccines because they contained less thimerosal -- the preservative that anti-vaccine activists wrongly believed causes autism. According to Scott Gottlieb, a former deputy commissioner of the FDA, this last minute switch was partially to blame for the vaccine shortages which occurred later that year.
 
2014-03-26 11:06:41 AM  
Does she know this guy?
 
2014-03-26 11:15:23 AM  
I am curious what part of the constitution gives anyone the right to parent their children.  Because children are removed from parents quite frequently when the children are deemed to be in danger leading me to think that, even if it were a right, it is certainly a right with limitations.
 
2014-03-26 11:17:22 AM  

OnlyM3: ginandbacon [TotalFark]
2014-03-26 10:00:57 AM

OnlyM3: We've seen just a skyrocketing autism rate. Some people are suspicious that it's connected to the vaccines. This person included

You know he was referring to someone in the audience, right?
Citation please.


http://voices.washingtonpost.com/fact-checker/2008/04/dr_obama_and_ dr_ mccain.html
 
2014-03-26 11:57:56 AM  
www.sugar-gliders.com
 
2014-03-26 12:30:55 PM  

OnlyM3: his performance on the issue didn't improve.


According to the CDC:

"Do the 2013-2014 seasonal flu vaccines contain thimerosal?

The Food and Drug Administration (FDA) has approved several formulations of the seasonal flu vaccine, including multi-dose vials and single-dose units. (See Table of Approved Influenza Vaccines for the U.S. 2013-2014 Season.) Since seasonal influenza vaccine is produced in large quantities for annual immunization campaigns, some of the vaccine is produced in multi-dose vials, and contains thimerosal to safeguard against possible contamination of the vial once it is opened.

The single-dose units are made without thimerosal as a preservative because they are intended to be opened and used only once. Additionally, the live-attenuated version of the vaccine (the nasal spray vaccine), is produced in single-dose units and does not contain thimerosal."

So, clearly, he HAS improved. You just chose not to talk about it.
 
2014-03-26 12:31:32 PM  
Herd Immunity is unethical. You can't and shouldn't force people to do things to make sure YOU have a good time. That's not how free societies work. Get your own damn vaccinations.
 
2014-03-26 12:33:23 PM  

doglover: Herd Immunity is unethical. You can't and shouldn't force people to do things to make sure YOU have a good time. That's not how free societies work. Get your own damn vaccinations.


I'm OK with this, as long as unvaccinated people get a big tattoo on their forehead that says "I AM A CONTAGIOUS IGNORAMUS".
 
2014-03-26 12:46:52 PM  
whose daughter suffered brain damage after contracting encephalitis from a routine vaccine when she a year old

Too bad her daughter didn't get a vaccine for encephalitis.

"Encephalitis is a rare condition. It occurs more often in the first year of life "

Just by chance, a good number of those getting encephalitis in their first year, will get it around the time of vaccination. Correlation does not equal causation.

This is why we really need to up the teaching of statistics to people.
 
2014-03-26 12:51:28 PM  
We've become spoiled, we citizens of the developed world.  We no longer know what scourges measles, mumps, polio, diptheria and the like really are.  They just seem like quaint, old-timey relics.  That is the only possible explanation for why we have parents in the 21st century claiming "I'm just protecting my kids by not vaccinating them."

F*ck every last one of them in the ear.  Seriously: lightning bolt, speeding train, falling rock, carbon monoxide, whatever... just have them leave us.
 
2014-03-26 12:56:50 PM  

Marcus Aurelius: doglover: Herd Immunity is unethical. You can't and shouldn't force people to do things to make sure YOU have a good time. That's not how free societies work. Get your own damn vaccinations.

I'm OK with this, as long as unvaccinated people get a big tattoo on their forehead that says "I AM A CONTAGIOUS IGNORAMUS".


Just assume everyone is contagious.

Herd immunity is the most selfish kind of retarded argument. It's morally and factually wrong.

At least, with the anti-vaxxers, they're logically consistent. If you accept their retarded premise that vaccines cause autism, then yes it makes sense that they would not take that risk for their own children take that risk. But they can only get away with this calculus BECAUSE EVERYONE ELSE HAS THE VACCINE. That precious herd immunity is the very source of their retarded movement.

Now, what you do is take that shiat away. Change it from "Your kid MIGHT get measles." to "You're kid's gonna die without these shots." Suddenly "anti-vaccination" people aren't even parents anymore. If Jenny McCarthy's kids had died of Hep B or something, this whole stupid chapter in Americans being dumb and entitled at each other would be over already.

So get your own shots, get your kids theirs, and actively exclude the people who don't from your society.
 
2014-03-26 12:58:05 PM  

doglover: Just assume everyone is contagious


No, most people vaccinate their children.
 
2014-03-26 01:03:17 PM  

Marcus Aurelius: doglover: Just assume everyone is contagious

No, most people vaccinate their children.


And most drunk drivers don't get caught. I grew up in PA. After 11 PM EVERYONE on the road is booze cruisin'. You can trust me on that score.


But we don't set safety policy by what most people do. We set policy by the worst case scenario. Worse case scenario is Typhoid Mary. So just assume EVERYONE is one. Get your own shots if possible. If you can't, take general precautions not to catch their plagues.
 
2014-03-26 01:05:42 PM  

OnlyM3: ginandbacon [TotalFark]

You know he was referring to someone in the audience, right?

Once he [obama] got into office, his performance on the issue didn't improve. In 2009, under the auspices of his newly elected administration, the FDA ordered a change from multi-dose to single-dose influenza vaccines because they contained less thimerosal -- the preservative that anti-vaccine activists wrongly believed causes autism. According to Scott Gottlieb, a former deputy commissioner of the FDA, this last minute switch was partially to blame for the vaccine shortages which occurred later that year.


I'm curious, what's your point? Okay, so Clinton and Obama were wrong on the matter. So what?
 
2014-03-26 01:07:03 PM  

doglover: Marcus Aurelius: doglover: Herd Immunity is unethical. You can't and shouldn't force people to do things to make sure YOU have a good time. That's not how free societies work. Get your own damn vaccinations.

I'm OK with this, as long as unvaccinated people get a big tattoo on their forehead that says "I AM A CONTAGIOUS IGNORAMUS".

Just assume everyone is contagious.

Herd immunity is the most selfish kind of retarded argument. It's morally and factually wrong.

At least, with the anti-vaxxers, they're logically consistent. If you accept their retarded premise that vaccines cause autism, then yes it makes sense that they would not take that risk for their own children take that risk. But they can only get away with this calculus BECAUSE EVERYONE ELSE HAS THE VACCINE. That precious herd immunity is the very source of their retarded movement.

Now, what you do is take that shiat away. Change it from "Your kid MIGHT get measles." to "You're kid's gonna die without these shots." Suddenly "anti-vaccination" people aren't even parents anymore. If Jenny McCarthy's kids had died of Hep B or something, this whole stupid chapter in Americans being dumb and entitled at each other would be over already.

So get your own shots, get your kids theirs, and actively exclude the people who don't from your society.


It just keeps coming up but yet again this problem would be solved with my "too stupid to live" constitutional amendment.

Obviously we'd need an almost completely new House of Representatives but on the other hand think of all the beautiful beachfront property in Florida that would suddenly become available at low low prices.
 
2014-03-26 01:08:52 PM  

doglover: So get your own shots, get your kids theirs, and actively exclude the people who don't from your society.


I don't think that is possible in a public school setting, which is what this bill is about.
 
2014-03-26 01:10:51 PM  

impaler: Just by chance, a good number of those getting encephalitis in their first year, will get it around the time of vaccination. Correlation does not equal causation.


I'm willing to grant that this may be information she got from her doctor. I don't think re-diagnosing people over the internet is a champion thought.
 
2014-03-26 01:11:34 PM  
Oh, and even though I know most people here know that anti-vax is insane, but I'd thought I'd share this anyway:

img.fark.net

People in the same cohort had a rise in autism rate well after all their vaccinations had passed.

Oh, and while looking for that, I found this gem:

www.sciencebasedmedicine.org

Not only will we all be autistic by 2040, but the entire general population will be autistic before all the women.
 
2014-03-26 01:14:08 PM  

nmrsnr: Not only will we all be autistic by 2040, but the entire general population will be autistic before all the women.


That is funny but in a "wow I hope a meteor crashes into the planet soon just to get rid of these people" way.  Maybe it is from a satirical piece?
 
2014-03-26 01:14:48 PM  

Tigger: It just keeps coming up but yet again this problem would be solved with my "too stupid to live" constitutional amendment.


This, and everything else. So many problems would just solve themselves if we repealed helmet laws and removed certain warning labels. Sadly, kids are involved so we can't let Dar win.

The best thing to do is simply offer a financial incentive. If your kids are vaccinated, you get a 5% bonus in wages, or something. End of story.
 
2014-03-26 01:16:52 PM  

Somacandra: doglover: So get your own shots, get your kids theirs, and actively exclude the people who don't from your society.

I don't think that is possible in a public school setting, which is what this bill is about.


Should be.

You can't carry bomb into a public building without a permit. You REALLY can't carry a chemical warhead into a public building, even with a permit. How is a biological weapon somehow acceptable just because it can say "Hello, my name is Billy and my parents hate me because they want me to get polio and hepatitis."
 
2014-03-26 01:19:44 PM  

nmrsnr: Oh, and even though I know most people here know that anti-vax is insane, but I'd thought I'd share this anyway:


Ever appropriate:

imgs.xkcd.com
 
2014-03-26 01:20:54 PM  

Somacandra: I'm willing to grant that this may be information she got from her doctor. I don't think re-diagnosing people over the internet is a champion thought.


I'm not willing to grant that she got that diagnosis from a doctor, as I've yet to here of encephalitis as one of the very few side-effects of vaccine.
 
2014-03-26 01:21:56 PM  
here of = hear of
 
2014-03-26 01:23:19 PM  

factoryconnection: nmrsnr: Not only will we all be autistic by 2040, but the entire general population will be autistic before all the women.

That is funny but in a "wow I hope a meteor crashes into the planet soon just to get rid of these people" way.  Maybe it is from a satirical piece?


Nope. I googled the source's name, he's a certified wackaloon.
 
2014-03-26 01:35:04 PM  
I think there actually may be a link between vaccines and autism, but not the anti-vaxxer causality one.  I think that vaccines have done such a wonderful job keeping people from dying from horrible diseases that people with generally weaker immune systems and genes are surviving infancy and childhood than would have otherwise.  These people who would have been killed off by polio or measles or whatever, but instead they grow up and horror of horrors have some social problems.  Instead of being dead.

/nephew is autistic
//much better after three years of treatment and diet changes
///rather have an autistic nephew than no nephew
 
2014-03-26 01:35:51 PM  

Vaccinate your farking kids.

 
2014-03-26 01:37:19 PM  
Well good then dont take care of your kids but keep their sickly asses out of our schools
 
2014-03-26 01:37:57 PM  

OnlyM3: I am committed to make investments to find the causes of autism, including possible environmental causes like vaccines.


.We don't know what, if any, kind of link there is between vaccines and autism - but we should find out.
--clinton


images.starpulse.com
 
2014-03-26 01:38:52 PM  
Since my wife is getting over some sort of death plague that the docs suspect may be Whooping cough, and we live in Colorado, and she works with school aged children...

...I'm really getting a kick etc.

/Allergic to the vaccine for Whooping Cough
//Terrified beyond reason of it as a result
 
2014-03-26 01:40:06 PM  
I am not an uneducated woman

You can be educated and still staggeringly ignorant.
 
2014-03-26 01:40:13 PM  

nmrsnr: Not only will we all be autistic by 2040, but the entire general population will be autistic before all the women.


Wow, now that is some f*cking potato.
 
2014-03-26 01:40:57 PM  
Herd immunity can help non-vaccinated people, but non-vaccinated people don't hurt the herd.

If i don't get my little snowflake vaccinated, it has NOTHING to do you with you.  It affects you and your snowflake, not one iota.

The only reason pro-vaxxers feel so strongly about this issue is because its disconcerting when others don't subscribe to the same beliefs.  It makes them question themselves whether they are sheeples for Big Pharma, and they don't like to think about that.
 
2014-03-26 01:41:23 PM  

rufus-t-firefly: I am not an uneducated woman

You can be educated and still staggeringly ignorant.


You can educate yourself with completely inaccurate and false information. Sometimes, even voluntarily.
 
2014-03-26 01:41:55 PM  
Correlation without causation

Plain and simple

No arguments, no nothing......

To think, the anti vax movement all got started by a farking porn star complaining about her boy getting autism from vaccines, and then it turns out the kid isn't even autistic....

Just because one statistic grows alongside the other does not mean those two are actually related in any way.

Is the CDC's website down or something? Cause a simple google search pretty much shows otherwise....
 
2014-03-26 01:43:05 PM  

Carn: I think there actually may be a link between vaccines and autism, but not the anti-vaxxer causality one.  I think that vaccines have done such a wonderful job keeping people from dying from horrible diseases that people with generally weaker immune systems and genes are surviving infancy and childhood than would have otherwise.  These people who would have been killed off by polio or measles or whatever, but instead they grow up and horror of horrors have some social problems.  Instead of being dead.

/nephew is autistic
//much better after three years of treatment and diet changes
///rather have an autistic nephew than no nephew


/Also fatties, tards, and people with allergies.
 
2014-03-26 01:45:18 PM  

Ambivalence: I am curious what part of the constitution gives anyone the right to parent their children.  Because children are removed from parents quite frequently when the children are deemed to be in danger leading me to think that, even if it were a right, it is certainly a right with limitations.


The constitution lists/states some of our rights, it does not grant them.  This is important, because if your rights are granted by men and law...they can be taken away with an additional flourish of the pen.

I'm not sure there is anything more sacred than the right to do as you wish with your own body.  A parent is the guardian of their children until such time that the child comes of age and can make their own decisions.

I have no problem with parents making decisions for their children, we must respect that...even if we don't agree with it.  Our government does tell us what we can and can't do with our own personage all the time...and we let them (more the fool we are for it).

I think what we need here is better education so that the parents make the right decision.

/my kid has all his shots
 
2014-03-26 01:45:23 PM  

T.rex: Herd immunity can help non-vaccinated people, but non-vaccinated people don't hurt the herd.

If i don't get my little snowflake vaccinated, it has NOTHING to do you with you.  It affects you and your snowflake, not one iota.

The only reason pro-vaxxers feel so strongly about this issue is because its disconcerting when others don't subscribe to the same beliefs.  It makes them question themselves whether they are sheeples for Big Pharma, and they don't like to think about that.


Right. So instead of  essentially ridding the world of nasty viruses we should let anti-vac's parade around with their sickness' because they are people with rights too doggonit.
 
2014-03-26 01:45:57 PM  

Carn: I think there actually may be a link between vaccines and autism, but not the anti-vaxxer causality one.  I think that vaccines have done such a wonderful job keeping people from dying from horrible diseases that people with generally weaker immune systems and genes are surviving infancy and childhood than would have otherwise.  These people who would have been killed off by polio or measles or whatever, but instead they grow up and horror of horrors have some social problems.  Instead of being dead.

/nephew is autistic
//much better after three years of treatment and diet changes
///rather have an autistic nephew than no nephew


Nope. Autism develops in utero in the second trimester. It is a disorder or neuronal migration with gross cytoarchitectural abnormalities. If I showed you an autistic brain and a non-clinical brain I could show you the differences with the naked eye.

One of the (many) failings of the anti-vax farkwits is that they have never explained how vaccines adminiestered at 1 year impact neuronal changes that happened 18 months ago.
 
2014-03-26 01:46:58 PM  

impaler: Somacandra: I'm willing to grant that this may be information she got from her doctor. I don't think re-diagnosing people over the internet is a champion thought.

I'm not willing to grant that she got that diagnosis from a doctor, as I've yet to here of encephalitis as one of the very few side-effects of vaccine.


I suppose it's possible that the encephalitis came from the measles part of the vaccine, it's far more likely that she contracted it from either West Nile virus or Lyme disease. Both of these are pretty prevalent in Colorado.

As a "not an uneducated woman," you think she'd know this.
 
2014-03-26 01:47:13 PM  

DERP KILLS
\o/
|
/ \

 
2014-03-26 01:47:43 PM  

doglover: Herd Immunity is unethical. You can't and shouldn't force people to do things to make sure YOU have a good time. That's not how free societies work. Get your own damn vaccinations.


I don't know if you're trollin', but vaccines don't work for 100% of people.  By keeping vaccinations rates high that "herd immunity" protects people for whom a vaccine is ineffective by decreasing the probability that they will encounter someone with the disease.  By filling schools with unvaccinated snowflakes, vaccinated snowflakes for whom the vaccine is ineffective are in just as much danger.
 
2014-03-26 01:47:49 PM  

T.rex: Herd immunity can help non-vaccinated people, but non-vaccinated people don't hurt the herd.

If i don't get my little snowflake vaccinated, it has NOTHING to do you with you.  It affects you and your snowflake, not one iota.

The only reason pro-vaxxers feel so strongly about this issue is because its disconcerting when others don't subscribe to the same beliefs.  It makes them question themselves whether they are sheeples for Big Pharma, and they don't like to think about that.


9/10. You'll get several bites
 
2014-03-26 01:47:57 PM  

DocPeabody: Correlation without causation

Plain and simple

No arguments, no nothing......

To think, the anti vax movement all got started by a farking porn star complaining about her boy getting autism from vaccines, and then it turns out the kid isn't even autistic....

Just because one statistic grows alongside the other does not mean those two are actually related in any way.

Is the CDC's website down or something? Cause a simple google search pretty much shows otherwise....


Actually the anti-vaxx movement was started by the now disbarred Andrew Wakefield and the research he fabricated.
 
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