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(Popular Science)   First there was hellfire, now there is brimstone: inside the ever-improving world of precision drone missile systems   (popsci.com ) divider line
    More: Interesting, Reaper Drone, Hellfire missile, missiles, systems  
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1890 clicks; posted to Geek » on 26 Mar 2014 at 9:37 AM (2 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



39 Comments     (+0 »)
 
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2014-03-26 09:44:27 AM  
Hellfire and brimstones? BAH GAWD IT'S KANE!
 
2014-03-26 09:57:01 AM  
But the US military is definitely NOT a Christian organization fighting God's holy crusade against the filthy Saracen pigs.

And no one in the world should look at those weapons systems names and think otherwise. To do so would mean you are a radical Islamist terrorist and should expect a delivery of those very weapons of the Christian God's wrath upon you, your wives and children, and upon all the generations of your tribe until Jesus returns to the holy grounds of the Pentagon and reestablishes his kingdom here on Earth, forever ensuring the purity of our bodily essence.
 
2014-03-26 10:03:23 AM  
These weapons systems have one hell of a naming convention,
 
2014-03-26 10:03:26 AM  
The stuff the defense complex comes up with always astonishes me.

They had a form of radio IFF for airplanes back in WWII.

They had video-based-seeking missiles as early as 1969 (Maverick).

They were thinking about heat-seeking missiles as early as 1949 (Sidewider).
 
2014-03-26 10:15:18 AM  
Oh, "less collateral damage".
Not interested.
Invest your time in making the "Daisy Cutter" a bigger boom, and we'll talk.
 
2014-03-26 10:18:54 AM  

ds615: Oh, "less collateral damage".
Not interested.
Invest your time in making the "Daisy Cutter" a bigger boom, and we'll talk.


How about a hellfire missile with flechets instead of HE?
 
2014-03-26 10:34:07 AM  

TheShavingofOccam123: But the US military is definitely NOT a Christian organization fighting God's holy crusade against the filthy Saracen pigs.


Maverick- the military definitely isn't hired guns above the law.
Sidewider- the military definitely isn't venomous snakes.
Apache- the military definitely isn't warlike indian tribes.
Sherman, Pershing, Patton, Sheridan, Abrams- the military definitely isn't historical generals.
etc.

How many other weapons systems or codenames have Christian connotation? How many out of the total of all weapons systems and codenames?
 
2014-03-26 10:41:17 AM  

Fubini: TheShavingofOccam123: But the US military is definitely NOT a Christian organization fighting God's holy crusade against the filthy Saracen pigs.

Maverick- the military definitely isn't hired guns above the law.
Sidewider- the military definitely isn't venomous snakes.
Apache- the military definitely isn't warlike indian tribes.
Sherman, Pershing, Patton, Sheridan, Abrams- the military definitely isn't historical generals.
etc.

How many other weapons systems or codenames have Christian connotation? How many out of the total of all weapons systems and codenames?


Well, now to be fair, we haven't dropped any Shermans or Pattons on the heads of Islamic children. The weapons of choice used against people who share a common faith appear to have Christian names. At least in the eyes of people who have a need to see it that way. Or their survivors.
 
2014-03-26 10:57:08 AM  

TheShavingofOccam123: But the US military is definitely NOT a Christian organization fighting God's holy crusade against the filthy Saracen pigs.

And no one in the world should look at those weapons systems names and think otherwise. To do so would mean you are a radical Islamist terrorist and should expect a delivery of those very weapons of the Christian God's wrath upon you, your wives and children, and upon all the generations of your tribe until Jesus returns to the holy grounds of the Pentagon and reestablishes his kingdom here on Earth, forever ensuring the purity of our bodily essence.


I thought Obama was Muslim?
 
2014-03-26 10:57:47 AM  
TheShavingofOccam123:
But the US military is definitely NOT a Christian organization fighting God's holy crusade against the filthy Saracen pigs.

Those Terrier and Skipper missiles are certainly named to put the fear of God into those awful people.
 
2014-03-26 11:08:25 AM  

cirby: TheShavingofOccam123:
But the US military is definitely NOT a Christian organization fighting God's holy crusade against the filthy Saracen pigs.

Those Terrier and Skipper missiles are certainly named to put the fear of God into those awful people.


Oh give me the romance and cachet of the name GBU-24B.

/the wiki points out that M81 bombs were removed from service in Vietnam because they were too small (250 lbs) and ineffective. But they've been used in Afghanistan due to their size.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General-purpose_bomb
 
2014-03-26 11:14:25 AM  

TheShavingofOccam123: Fubini: TheShavingofOccam123: But the US military is definitely NOT a Christian organization fighting God's holy crusade against the filthy Saracen pigs.

Maverick- the military definitely isn't hired guns above the law.
Sidewider- the military definitely isn't venomous snakes.
Apache- the military definitely isn't warlike indian tribes.
Sherman, Pershing, Patton, Sheridan, Abrams- the military definitely isn't historical generals.
etc.

How many other weapons systems or codenames have Christian connotation? How many out of the total of all weapons systems and codenames?

Well, now to be fair, we haven't dropped any Shermans or Pattons on the heads of Islamic children. The weapons of choice used against people who share a common faith appear to have Christian names. At least in the eyes of people who have a need to see it that way. Or their survivors.


1. I bet most of the "targets" don't know the name of the missiles.

2. Hellfire missiles aren't the only weapons used to attack insurgents/terrorists/wedding parties.

3. Are you saying the Islamic faith doesn't have a concept of hell? I doubt (but admittedly can't prove) they don't view hell or hellfire as a Christian concept.
 
2014-03-26 11:15:19 AM  
3 should be "doubt they view" , not "doubt they don't view".
 
2014-03-26 11:22:33 AM  

SkittlesAreYum: TheShavingofOccam123: Fubini: TheShavingofOccam123: But the US military is definitely NOT a Christian organization fighting God's holy crusade against the filthy Saracen pigs.

Maverick- the military definitely isn't hired guns above the law.
Sidewider- the military definitely isn't venomous snakes.
Apache- the military definitely isn't warlike indian tribes.
Sherman, Pershing, Patton, Sheridan, Abrams- the military definitely isn't historical generals.
etc.

How many other weapons systems or codenames have Christian connotation? How many out of the total of all weapons systems and codenames?

Well, now to be fair, we haven't dropped any Shermans or Pattons on the heads of Islamic children. The weapons of choice used against people who share a common faith appear to have Christian names. At least in the eyes of people who have a need to see it that way. Or their survivors.

1. I bet most of the "targets" don't know the name of the missiles.

2. Hellfire missiles aren't the only weapons used to attack insurgents/terrorists/wedding parties.

3. Are you saying the Islamic faith doesn't have a concept of hell? I doubt (but admittedly can't prove) they don't view hell or hellfire as a Christian concept.


Anyone whose posts quote Dr Strangelove shouldn't be taken too seriously. I was just pointing out that choosing to name weapons systems with names that have clear links to Christian doctrine might not go over very well with possible allies. Bush got in serious trouble with lots of  flavors of the Islamic faith when he used the word "crusade" when talking of fighting Al Qaeda.
 
2014-03-26 11:32:33 AM  

TheShavingofOccam123: Fubini: TheShavingofOccam123: But the US military is definitely NOT a Christian organization fighting God's holy crusade against the filthy Saracen pigs.

Maverick- the military definitely isn't hired guns above the law.
Sidewider- the military definitely isn't venomous snakes.
Apache- the military definitely isn't warlike indian tribes.
Sherman, Pershing, Patton, Sheridan, Abrams- the military definitely isn't historical generals.
etc.

How many other weapons systems or codenames have Christian connotation? How many out of the total of all weapons systems and codenames?

Well, now to be fair, we haven't dropped any Shermans or Pattons on the heads of Islamic children. The weapons of choice used against people who share a common faith appear to have Christian names. At least in the eyes of people who have a need to see it that way. Or their survivors.


Hellfire and Brimstone are old testament and likely are included in Muslim scriptures as well.
 
2014-03-26 11:34:56 AM  
btw..it is called the  Munroe effect
 /1371
 
2014-03-26 11:59:34 AM  

TheShavingofOccam123: But the US military is definitely NOT a Christian organization fighting God's holy crusade against the filthy Saracen pigs.

And no one in the world should look at those weapons systems names and think otherwise. To do so would mean you are a radical Islamist terrorist and should expect a delivery of those very weapons of the Christian God's wrath upon you, your wives and children, and upon all the generations of your tribe until Jesus returns to the holy grounds of the Pentagon and reestablishes his kingdom here on Earth, forever ensuring the purity of our bodily essence.



That, or the designers were once 12 year old boys who like things with badass names that get blowed up real good.
 
2014-03-26 12:29:44 PM  
Back when I worked at APL I was told most weapons systems are named to give upper generals and politicians something to ohhh and ahhhh about when seeking funding.
 
2014-03-26 12:47:49 PM  

zarberg: Back when I worked at APL I was told most weapons systems are named to give upper generals and politicians something to ohhh and ahhhh about when seeking funding.


and us grunts. don't forget us. Boys with cool sounding toys.
 
2014-03-26 12:50:44 PM  

TheShavingofOccam123: But the US military is definitely NOT a Christian organization fighting God's holy crusade against the filthy Saracen pigs.

And no one in the world should look at those weapons systems names and think otherwise. To do so would mean you are a radical Islamist terrorist and should expect a delivery of those very weapons of the Christian God's wrath upon you, your wives and children, and upon all the generations of your tribe until Jesus returns to the holy grounds of the Pentagon and reestablishes his kingdom here on Earth, forever ensuring the purity of our bodily essence.


The military doesn't name the missile systems, nice try though.
 
2014-03-26 01:01:46 PM  
MindStalker:
Hellfire and Brimstone are old testament and likely are included in Muslim scriptures as well.

Brimstone, yeah, but not hellfire.

Link
 
2014-03-26 01:29:52 PM  
If we wanted to deliberately offend the terrorist extremists as they were blown up we'd have missiles named Hygiene, Educated Woman, and Out&Proud.
 
2014-03-26 01:36:18 PM  

Boojum2k: If we wanted to deliberately offend the terrorist extremists as they were blown up we'd have missiles named Hygiene, Educated Woman, and Out&Proud.


"Porkchop"
 
2014-03-26 01:45:37 PM  

Smoking GNU: Boojum2k: If we wanted to deliberately offend the terrorist extremists as they were blown up we'd have missiles named Hygiene, Educated Woman, and Out&Proud.

"Porkchop"


"Bacon-infused Vodka"
 
2014-03-26 01:58:59 PM  

Robo Beat: Smoking GNU: Boojum2k: If we wanted to deliberately offend the terrorist extremists as they were blown up we'd have missiles named Hygiene, Educated Woman, and Out&Proud.

"Porkchop"

"Bacon-infused Vodka"


Drooling Basset
 
2014-03-26 02:00:31 PM  
The Scorpions' hit "Rock you like a hurricane" is about the Battle of Britain.

/tmyk
 
2014-03-26 02:14:09 PM  

i1089.photobucket.com

 
2014-03-26 03:09:39 PM  

TheShavingofOccam123: But the US military is definitely NOT a Christian organization fighting God's holy crusade against the filthy Saracen pigs.

And no one in the world should look at those weapons systems names and think otherwise. To do so would mean you are a radical Islamist terrorist and should expect a delivery of those very weapons of the Christian God's wrath upon you, your wives and children, and upon all the generations of your tribe until Jesus returns to the holy grounds of the Pentagon and reestablishes his kingdom here on Earth, forever ensuring the purity of our bodily essence.


http://quran.com/2/119
"Indeed, We have sent you, [O Muhammad], with the truth as a bringer of good tidings and a warner, and you will not be asked about the companions of Hellfire. "  2:19

http://quran.com/5/10
"But those who disbelieve and deny Our signs - those are the companions of Hellfire." 5:10

Allusions to brimstone are there - searchable:
http://quran.com/search?q=brimstone
 
2014-03-26 03:15:59 PM  
I've finally gotten around to watching Ghost in the Shell SAC 2nd Gig...I'm not sure how okay I am with arming drones anymore.

/Though I am slightly curious why we don't have drone helicopters yet
//Some guy was totally wearing an Oculus Rift in the first episode
 
2014-03-26 03:25:08 PM  

duffblue: TheShavingofOccam123: But the US military is definitely NOT a Christian organization fighting God's holy crusade against the filthy Saracen pigs.

And no one in the world should look at those weapons systems names and think otherwise. To do so would mean you are a radical Islamist terrorist and should expect a delivery of those very weapons of the Christian God's wrath upon you, your wives and children, and upon all the generations of your tribe until Jesus returns to the holy grounds of the Pentagon and reestablishes his kingdom here on Earth, forever ensuring the purity of our bodily essence.

I thought Obama was Muslim?


A SECRET Muslim.
 
2014-03-26 03:27:21 PM  
IRT TFA:  Shape charges arent really ideal to kill people.  Good against armor, vehicles and some buildings, but not people unless you put it right on them.  That was the problem with the early use of AGM-114's, and why the "R" was developed with a fragmentation sleeve.  The "solution" here may end up reinventing the problem that had already been solved.  The risk becomes instead of lobbing one missile that frags and having a fair chance of killing the target, you may need to employ multiple weapons with shapecharge warheads to accomplish the same task.  If you miss with the first volley, the targeting is going to get a lot more complicated as the bad guy skedaddles.

The article misses the point - tandem charges are really useful against reactive armor on tanks etc.  Wiki's page on reactive armor says "almost every tank in the eastern-European military inventory today has either been manufactured to use ERA or had ERA tiles added to it..."
 
2014-03-26 03:29:28 PM  

Comsamvimes: I've finally gotten around to watching Ghost in the Shell SAC 2nd Gig...I'm not sure how okay I am with arming drones anymore.

/Though I am slightly curious why we don't have drone helicopters yet
//Some guy was totally wearing an Oculus Rift in the first episode


Check out the MQ-8 Fire Scout
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northrop_Grumman_MQ-8_Fire_Scout
 
2014-03-26 03:36:17 PM  
Hah, and since I'm talking to myself today: I stand corrected.  This article:  http://breakingdefense.com/2013/10/eye-on-fewer-drone-civilian-deaths - mbda-challenges-lockheed-raytheon-with-brimstone-missile/  Says they have a 98% strike rate in 300 engagements (Afghanistan and Libya).  I'd like to know what strike rate means, and what they were employed against, but the linked article says it has an improved seeker so there we go.
 
2014-03-26 04:17:15 PM  
Hellfire missiles were developed in the 80's when killing Commies was still the 'thing'.

Brimstone got its name because of the militarys penchant for 'theme' naming weapons.

Now if you want to talk shop, mention the Paladin and Crusader gun systems.
 
2014-03-26 04:17:42 PM  

mr lawson: zarberg: Back when I worked at APL I was told most weapons systems are named to give upper generals and politicians something to ohhh and ahhhh about when seeking funding.

and us grunts. don't forget us. Boys with cool sounding toys.


That drives me up the wall. And they aren't even that creative, they reuse them and it gets all confusing.
 
2014-03-26 04:46:56 PM  

Lord Soth: The article misses the point - tandem charges are really useful against reactive armor on tanks etc.  Wiki's page on reactive armor says "almost every tank in the eastern-European military inventory today has either been manufactured to use ERA or had ERA tiles added to it..."


That's what they want you to think. During the Georgian War, a full seventy-five percent of Russia's tank force was older T-62 and T-72's. Those vehicles were not built with reactive armor, but had it added later in the form of ERA tiles. The problem was, for the most part all those ERA canisters were just empty. The Georgians were able to successfully kill Russian tanks with generations-old anti-tank weapons (weapon generations, not people generations).

The older tanks also lacked GPS, IFF, and night/thermal imaging systems. Basically, Western tanks vs Russian tanks would be just like Desert Storm, but with more hills and foliage.

http://strategicstudiesinstitute.army.mil/pubs/parameters/Articles/0 9s pring/mcdermott.pdf
 
2014-03-26 05:30:33 PM  

Fubini: Lord Soth: The article misses the point - tandem charges are really useful against reactive armor on tanks etc.  Wiki's page on reactive armor says "almost every tank in the eastern-European military inventory today has either been manufactured to use ERA or had ERA tiles added to it..."

That's what they want you to think. During the Georgian War, a full seventy-five percent of Russia's tank force was older T-62 and T-72's. Those vehicles were not built with reactive armor, but had it added later in the form of ERA tiles. The problem was, for the most part all those ERA canisters were just empty. The Georgians were able to successfully kill Russian tanks with generations-old anti-tank weapons (weapon generations, not people generations).

The older tanks also lacked GPS, IFF, and night/thermal imaging systems. Basically, Western tanks vs Russian tanks would be just like Desert Storm, but with more hills and foliage.

http://strategicstudiesinstitute.army.mil/pubs/parameters/Articles/0 9s pring/mcdermott.pdf


That's a good read, thanks.  It describes a pretty dismal state for the Red's ground forces.

I have to say, when I read "poor interoperability between the Air Force and ground units, communication problems during combat, and low-resolution reconnaissance systems," part of my thought "Holy Grenada, Batman!"
 
2014-03-26 05:42:08 PM  
I was going to say something like that less collateral damage would just make the US more likely to perform illegal attacks, but then I realized that collateral damage to innocents hasn't been stopping us so far.  I guess if we're going to do the attacks anyway...
 
2014-03-27 12:15:34 AM  

TheShavingofOccam123: But the US military is definitely NOT a Christian organization fighting God's holy crusade against the filthy Saracen pigs.

And no one in the world should look at those weapons systems names and think otherwise. To do so would mean you are a radical Islamist terrorist and should expect a delivery of those very weapons of the Christian God's wrath upon you, your wives and children, and upon all the generations of your tribe until Jesus returns to the holy grounds of the Pentagon and reestablishes his kingdom here on Earth, forever ensuring the purity of our bodily essence.


OH NOES!  We are not naming our weapons systems designed to kill people in a sensitive way, because that would make all the difference.  Sorry maam, your son was killed with the kind wishes missile.  Do you feel better we killed him with kindness?

Come to think of it, that would be a great name for a missile: kindness.  Let's go kill them with kindness, people.
 
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