If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(The Atlantic)   Stressed out at work? Overwhelmed, totally exhausted and wanting to kill your co-workers? Yep, you're an American worker   (theatlantic.com) divider line 183
    More: Obvious, great house, maternity leave, Sheryl Sandberg, General Social Survey, write a piece  
•       •       •

6730 clicks; posted to Main » on 26 Mar 2014 at 1:45 AM (35 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



183 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2014-03-26 12:32:36 AM  
Hmm. I don't see a column for "Stress" or "Quality of Life" here on the spreadsheet... And I don't see it in Oracle... It doesn't appear anywhere on the profit and loss report....

It must not be an issue.
 
2014-03-26 12:43:49 AM  
I work with so many 20-year-olds in NYC that I want to kill KILL KILL!

/maybe a little more of kill.. KILL KILL KILLL.... seriously how did they ever make it through college.. It amazes me? Half of these kids that are sent to me and I have to hire don't know what a shoelase is no lest the jist of what ad work is like..
/old guy in the ad bis... kill KILL KILL KILL Wahhhhhhhhhhhhh
 
2014-03-26 12:45:19 AM  
I don't want to kill them. I just want to see them not alive... Anymore.
 
2014-03-26 01:02:03 AM  

AlwaysRightBoy: I work with so many 20-year-olds in NYC that I want to kill KILL KILL!

/maybe a little more of kill.. KILL KILL KILLL.... seriously how did they ever make it through college.. It amazes me? Half of these kids that are sent to me and I have to hire don't know what a shoelase is no lest the jist of what ad work is like..
/old guy in the ad bis... kill KILL KILL KILL Wahhhhhhhhhhhhh


It seems to me Bill Hicks had some advice that would completely solve your anxiety issues.
 
2014-03-26 01:12:55 AM  

Lenny_da_Hog: AlwaysRightBoy: I work with so many 20-year-olds in NYC that I want to kill KILL KILL!

/maybe a little more of kill.. KILL KILL KILLL.... seriously how did they ever make it through college.. It amazes me? Half of these kids that are sent to me and I have to hire don't know what a shoelase is no lest the jist of what ad work is like..
/old guy in the ad bis... kill KILL KILL KILL Wahhhhhhhhhhhhh

It seems to me Bill Hicks had some advice that would completely solve your anxiety issues.


I HEAR YEAH....
 
2014-03-26 01:40:24 AM  
I knew the risks when I took up the Mop and Bucket and first rolled into the booths.
 
2014-03-26 01:52:03 AM  

Mr. Coffee Nerves: I knew the risks when I took up the Mop and Bucket and first rolled into the booths.


That would be the jackoff booths at the Pussycat Theater?
 
2014-03-26 01:52:23 AM  
thefilmexperience.net
We all go a little mad sometimes.
 
2014-03-26 01:56:07 AM  
image.automobilemag.com
 
2014-03-26 01:58:48 AM  

Mr. Coffee Nerves: I knew the risks when I took up the Mop and Bucket and first rolled into the booths.


i.imgur.com

Understands the etiquette of the location.
 
2014-03-26 02:02:48 AM  
ftfa: "Why do so many people-particularly women-seem to have so much on their plates?"


Bwaaa haa haa haa!
 
2014-03-26 02:03:16 AM  
Is there any hope for the future of anyone not born into wealth, or lucky enough to pull off a multi million dollar company? Is the average person always just going to be miserable until the day they die?

Sometimes I think it would be more humane to relax restrictions on assisted suicide, but I quickly realize that won't solve anything any more than any other action we take. Miserable from cradle to grave seems to be the default for a grand majority of people.
 
2014-03-26 02:03:32 AM  
You have to have your priorities, and decide what you can live without, is all. And what you want to have.

My sister has five kids, a full-time job, a dog, and a mostly worthless husband (he works, and that's about it). The kids all have various sports activities, homework, piles of clothes, and demands on her attention. She tried for a while; but now she takes time to sleep, eat, and read by not cleaning the house every day, or cooking dinner every night. The kids get take-out or pizza or chicken nuggets for dinner.

If people don't like it (it drives my mom crazy), well, too bad. She's busy and wants to have fun with her kids now and to live to see all her grandkids someday, so something has to give, and since my BIL won't do his share of the chores, it's live in a messy house and don't cook for five finicky kids all the time. And she's a lot less stressed than many of these women with fewer kids who are trying to live the perfect suburban dream.

You just CAN'T have it all, ladies and gentlemen. Sorry.
 
2014-03-26 02:04:57 AM  
A lot of the "quality of life" complaints derive from the hell that men put up with at home from their wives who complain about the men being at work all the time and never helping at home. It's as if they don't understand the concept of division of labor.

I work hard to support the family, my job is to continue increasing my pay so as to make my family comfortable. Your job as a stay-at-home wife is to take care of the daily routine of the house. Washing the dishes, dear, is your job, no matter how much you think I should do it because you're "tired" and have been "busy all day".

Housework is tough. No one said it wasn't. But so is earning a living. Everyone has a job to do. Quitcherbiatchin.
 
2014-03-26 02:08:43 AM  
I agree. It has something to do with the "get up at 6am, drive to work at 8am to get there by nine, work 'til 5 or 6pm, then get home at 6:30-8:30pm, then try to LIVE a little bit before you realize you gotta go to bed soon because you need to repeat what you just did" philosophy. No family for me, thanks.
 
2014-03-26 02:10:32 AM  
The assembly line at the Ford plant in the very early days was so fast, workers would become psychotic and attack each other.  Henry Ford slowed the line and the violence quickly subsided.

IMHO, all the gains of TR's Progressive Republicans and the various unions over the years have essentially been eliminated.  Now we're seeing the elimination of basic civil rights with the number of insane SCOTUS rulings, shiat like that AZ law and the Hobby Lobby nonsense.

Give it another decade and we'll envy the Chinese for their civil and worker's rights!
 
2014-03-26 02:12:25 AM  

Pichu0102: Is there any hope for the future of anyone not born into wealth, or lucky enough to pull off a multi million dollar company? Is the average person always just going to be miserable until the day they die?

Sometimes I think it would be more humane to relax restrictions on assisted suicide, but I quickly realize that won't solve anything any more than any other action we take. Miserable from cradle to grave seems to be the default for a grand majority of people.


Think of life like a video game.

You can grind all your life and have a relatively simple path. Just keep grinding, money and experience will come in, eventually you'll be living better than you were when you started the game. But you don't have much to your name except what you earned from grinding.

You can alternatively flail wildly, enjoy yourself, and end up with no experience and no money.

The ideal path is to save some of that money, invest it in better tools that will increase your ability to earn money and experience. Yeah, maybe you have to grind a little harder, but as time wears on, you earn more from the better tools and eventually the grinding becomes easier and leveling up becomes faster.

Or you can buy your way into the game, dominate it without spending any time, just money. Very few people start here, and it's a waste of time to concentrate on these guys unless they are directly griefing you.
 
2014-03-26 02:13:24 AM  
I don't know about that one lady's microwave, but on mine if I just hit the 3 key, it automatically does a 3 minute cook.

Plus, if the extra time it takes to hit two extra buttons on the microwave is going to make a huge difference in your quality of life, then you life is officially a living hell.
 
2014-03-26 02:14:24 AM  
Still working at this hour so yes I am overwhelmed.  No coworkers left to kill, though.
 
2014-03-26 02:19:20 AM  
didn't we used to make fun of the Japanese in the 80's for supposedly working themselves to death for little compensation or recognition?

I think Michael Keaton even made a movie based on that idea.
 
2014-03-26 02:22:28 AM  

log_jammin: didn't we used to make fun of the Japanese in the 80's for supposedly working themselves to death for little compensation or recognition?

I think Michael Keaton even made a movie based on that idea.


Gung Ho.
 
2014-03-26 02:23:41 AM  
I've been working 80 hours a week for so long I get anxious not working. The film industry is a tough industry to break into, and even tougher when you do.
 
2014-03-26 02:24:48 AM  

Mad_Radhu: I don't know about that one lady's microwave, but on mine if I just hit the 3 key, it automatically does a 3 minute cook.

Plus, if the extra time it takes to hit two extra buttons on the microwave is going to make a huge difference in your quality of life, then you life is officially a living hell.


Yeah. The second shavers make me sad.
 
2014-03-26 02:26:43 AM  
Ok so if that's normal for an American worker, what's normal for an American Postal Worker?

True story: working at postal sorting facility, we had a co-worker who was super nice and friendly to everybody until one day he didn't come in. We discovered that he'd killed and dismembered his girlfriend (parts of her were never found) and carried the body around with him for a couple days before being discovered.
 
2014-03-26 02:29:24 AM  

Farkingwhatever: I agree. It has something to do with the "get up at 6am, drive to work at 8am to get there by nine, work 'til 5 or 6pm, then get home at 6:30-8:30pm, then try to LIVE a little bit before you realize you gotta go to bed soon because you need to repeat what you just did" philosophy. No family for me, thanks.


I got up at 6, left the hotel at 7, worked until 6, then drove until I got to the next hotel at 11:30 so I can do the same thing at another business tomorrow. So at least you go home at night... mine only sees me from Thursday nights til Sunday afternoons, and then I'm usually in my home office getting reports finished and prepping for two weeks out. On the other hand, I love what I do. I'd just like more time to exercise, especially when Taco Bell is basically my kitchen five days a week.
 
2014-03-26 02:33:21 AM  

AverageAmericanGuy: Pichu0102: Is there any hope for the future of anyone not born into wealth, or lucky enough to pull off a multi million dollar company? Is the average person always just going to be miserable until the day they die?

Sometimes I think it would be more humane to relax restrictions on assisted suicide, but I quickly realize that won't solve anything any more than any other action we take. Miserable from cradle to grave seems to be the default for a grand majority of people.

Think of life like a video game.

You can grind all your life and have a relatively simple path. Just keep grinding, money and experience will come in, eventually you'll be living better than you were when you started the game. But you don't have much to your name except what you earned from grinding.

You can alternatively flail wildly, enjoy yourself, and end up with no experience and no money.

The ideal path is to save some of that money, invest it in better tools that will increase your ability to earn money and experience. Yeah, maybe you have to grind a little harder, but as time wears on, you earn more from the better tools and eventually the grinding becomes easier and leveling up becomes faster.

Or you can buy your way into the game, dominate it without spending any time, just money. Very few people start here, and it's a waste of time to concentrate on these guys unless they are directly griefing you.


Yeah, you do all that, and then some asshole hacks your account, steals what he wants, sells the rest, and deletes all your toons except for the level one blue haired gnome you rolled for the 20 man raid on Hogger.  So you get so depressed you delete the entire game.  Game over, man, game over.
 
2014-03-26 02:35:01 AM  
I remember one warrant officer I used to work for, whose total technical inability was only equalled by his ability to somehow take credit for every piece of work done by his subordinates. To describe this man as a back-stabber would have been an insult to back-stabbers.
When I found out a few years later that he was dying of "cancer" (read AIDS), I felt incredibly guilty. Here the man was dying a slow, miserable death, when I could've given him a quick one.
 
2014-03-26 02:36:45 AM  

AverageAmericanGuy: Pichu0102: Is there any hope for the future of anyone not born into wealth, or lucky enough to pull off a multi million dollar company? Is the average person always just going to be miserable until the day they die?

Sometimes I think it would be more humane to relax restrictions on assisted suicide, but I quickly realize that won't solve anything any more than any other action we take. Miserable from cradle to grave seems to be the default for a grand majority of people.

Think of life like a video game.

You can grind all your life and have a relatively simple path. Just keep grinding, money and experience will come in, eventually you'll be living better than you were when you started the game. But you don't have much to your name except what you earned from grinding.

You can alternatively flail wildly, enjoy yourself, and end up with no experience and no money.

The ideal path is to save some of that money, invest it in better tools that will increase your ability to earn money and experience. Yeah, maybe you have to grind a little harder, but as time wears on, you earn more from the better tools and eventually the grinding becomes easier and leveling up becomes faster.

Or you can buy your way into the game, dominate it without spending any time, just money. Very few people start here, and it's a waste of time to concentrate on these guys unless they are directly griefing you.


Even that seems like a useless dream. Slowly try to save up money, and all of a sudden everything now has fees or restrictions that make you end up forfeiting your paycheck, which leads to needing to take an advance to survive on, which puts you in debt that you have to use your next paycheck on, and borrow more money on top of already quickly growing interest...

I just feel it's strange so many people are miserable and in those or similar situations, and don't just give up and wait to die from hunger or something else. I mean, at that point, you have nothing to lose, and no hope that your life will go any direction other than continuing down, so what makes most people who live so miserably keep on functioning? Inertia?
 
2014-03-26 02:40:12 AM  

Deacon Blue: Yeah, you do all that, and then some asshole hacks your account, steals what he wants, sells the rest, and deletes all your toons except for the level one blue haired gnome you rolled for the 20 man raid on Hogger. So you get so depressed you delete the entire game. Game over, man, game over.


LOL.
 
2014-03-26 02:40:51 AM  
JMHO, but I think it makes things simpler not to own more toys* than I have time to play with. I wonder about the wisdom of people who buy an RV or boat for $25k-100k that they might use two weeks a year. But it's not just that, people have so much crap that it no longer fits in their homes. They need to rent storage space for all the crap they have but can't throw away or donate. But shop 'til you drop if that's your thing. I have chosen to simplify. YMMV

/*boats, horses, hang gliders, whatever, etc.
 
2014-03-26 02:48:21 AM  
American slave don't need no stinkin' unions........bwahahahaha the Kock bros luv you!
 
2014-03-26 02:49:58 AM  
www.iww.org
 
2014-03-26 02:50:40 AM  
But to must strive and aspire and envy and worry for your job every second of every day or I can't practice my corporate whore authority pose on your ass and keep my pretendy job!
 
2014-03-26 02:51:03 AM  
I do the 1:11 on the microwave too; that's not extreme time management that's just the easiest laziest way.

 Also, I really think spending time with your kids is a lot more important than being able to pay their college tuition, and not just for them but for society.
 
2014-03-26 02:51:28 AM  
Calling them co-workers would suggest that they actually farking worked!!!!
 
2014-03-26 02:55:00 AM  

RanDomino: [www.iww.org image 299x342]


You laugh, but with modern technology 4 hours a day accomplishes a shiat ton more than 8 or 12 used to. There's no John Henry that can out-harvest a combine.
 
2014-03-26 03:01:06 AM  

doglover: RanDomino: [www.iww.org image 299x342]

You laugh, but with modern technology 4 hours a day accomplishes a shiat ton more than 8 or 12 used to. There's no John Henry that can out-harvest a combine.


He's not laughing. He's a true believer.
 
2014-03-26 03:11:48 AM  

Pichu0102: AverageAmericanGuy: Pichu0102: Is there any hope for the future of anyone not born into wealth, or lucky enough to pull off a multi million dollar company? Is the average person always just going to be miserable until the day they die?

Sometimes I think it would be more humane to relax restrictions on assisted suicide, but I quickly realize that won't solve anything any more than any other action we take. Miserable from cradle to grave seems to be the default for a grand majority of people.

Think of life like a video game.

You can grind all your life and have a relatively simple path. Just keep grinding, money and experience will come in, eventually you'll be living better than you were when you started the game. But you don't have much to your name except what you earned from grinding.

You can alternatively flail wildly, enjoy yourself, and end up with no experience and no money.

The ideal path is to save some of that money, invest it in better tools that will increase your ability to earn money and experience. Yeah, maybe you have to grind a little harder, but as time wears on, you earn more from the better tools and eventually the grinding becomes easier and leveling up becomes faster.

Or you can buy your way into the game, dominate it without spending any time, just money. Very few people start here, and it's a waste of time to concentrate on these guys unless they are directly griefing you.

Even that seems like a useless dream. Slowly try to save up money, and all of a sudden everything now has fees or restrictions that make you end up forfeiting your paycheck, which leads to needing to take an advance to survive on, which puts you in debt that you have to use your next paycheck on, and borrow more money on top of already quickly growing interest...

I just feel it's strange so many people are miserable and in those or similar situations, and don't just give up and wait to die from hunger or something else. I mean, at that point, you have nothing to lose ...


If you can't manage debt, then grinding away without taking on debt is probably the best thing for you.
 
2014-03-26 03:11:51 AM  

Lenny_da_Hog: AlwaysRightBoy: I work with so many 20-year-olds in NYC that I want to kill KILL KILL!

/maybe a little more of kill.. KILL KILL KILLL.... seriously how did they ever make it through college.. It amazes me? Half of these kids that are sent to me and I have to hire don't know what a shoelase is no lest the jist of what ad work is like..
/old guy in the ad bis... kill KILL KILL KILL Wahhhhhhhhhhhhh

It seems to me Bill Hicks had some advice that would completely solve your anxiety issues.


And his marketing people made that advice (somewhat) famous.

As he said, "the anti-marketing market is a big market."

/smoked a doob on Hicks' grave.
 
2014-03-26 03:13:28 AM  

AverageAmericanGuy: doglover: RanDomino: [www.iww.org image 299x342]

You laugh, but with modern technology 4 hours a day accomplishes a shiat ton more than 8 or 12 used to. There's no John Henry that can out-harvest a combine.

He's not laughing. He's a true believer.


So am I. Romans lived the farkin' life through slavery. That's immoral and wrong. However, now we have machines and robots. Slaves that have no ability to be free nor sentience to appreciate freedom even were it granted. Constructs, devoid of all but the purpose to which they're set.

We could all live like the richer castes of Roman society with a few simple changes to our societal philosophy. Let the machines do the crap work and focus on self actualization. Make money into a thing that is only used for recreation and ornamentation. The basics, like food and water and shelter, can easily be free with minimum human labor.

In my ideal world, we'd all be guaranteed a life like in a free to play MMORPG. Tunic, hut, basic medical, hygine and all the nutraloaf you can eat. That's farkin' it. Pretty good for a homeless dude. Pretty shiat for anyone else. So, what we would do next is make all things like cooking, textiles, the arts, basically all the same shiat we do now, extra. That would cost money. You want decent food? Cough up some coins? Want coins? Offer up some value to another person. Carve a nice walking stick, sell it to a man who needs one, buy yourself a burger. You've earned it.

It would be hard at first, but ideally we'd have a hybrid of capitalism and communism. An actual working society where we work a bit for others and a lot for our own pet projects. Minimize this idea that you have to do drudgery, because you really don't.
 
2014-03-26 03:32:21 AM  

doglover: AverageAmericanGuy: doglover: RanDomino: [www.iww.org image 299x342]

You laugh, but with modern technology 4 hours a day accomplishes a shiat ton more than 8 or 12 used to. There's no John Henry that can out-harvest a combine.

He's not laughing. He's a true believer.

So am I. Romans lived the farkin' life through slavery. That's immoral and wrong. However, now we have machines and robots. Slaves that have no ability to be free nor sentience to appreciate freedom even were it granted. Constructs, devoid of all but the purpose to which they're set.

We could all live like the richer castes of Roman society with a few simple changes to our societal philosophy. Let the machines do the crap work and focus on self actualization. Make money into a thing that is only used for recreation and ornamentation. The basics, like food and water and shelter, can easily be free with minimum human labor.

In my ideal world, we'd all be guaranteed a life like in a free to play MMORPG. Tunic, hut, basic medical, hygine and all the nutraloaf you can eat. That's farkin' it. Pretty good for a homeless dude. Pretty shiat for anyone else. So, what we would do next is make all things like cooking, textiles, the arts, basically all the same shiat we do now, extra. That would cost money. You want decent food? Cough up some coins? Want coins? Offer up some value to another person. Carve a nice walking stick, sell it to a man who needs one, buy yourself a burger. You've earned it.

It would be hard at first, but ideally we'd have a hybrid of capitalism and communism. An actual working society where we work a bit for others and a lot for our own pet projects. Minimize this idea that you have to do drudgery, because you really don't.


A "Mincome", so to speak?

I'm on board with that.
 
2014-03-26 03:43:25 AM  

saintstryfe: Mr. Coffee Nerves: I knew the risks when I took up the Mop and Bucket and first rolled into the booths.

[i.imgur.com image 400x169]

Understands the etiquette of the location.


static.comicvine.com
Would like to know how much he gets paid per hour.
 
2014-03-26 03:52:07 AM  
What you're describing doglover is basically a semi-scarcity or early post-scarcity economy. Think about it this way: What happens when our ability to produce exceeds our ability to consume to such a point that there's simply no need for every single person to work in order for us to be able to afford to feed and shelter every single person on a basic level?

We've already hit that point with food, the world produces enough food for everyone to be as fat as americans, but there isn't enough money in the world for everyone to buy their share of food. So we let them starve.

Why? Because American culture isn't anti-welfare, that's a common misunderstanding. American culture is Pro-Suffering. That's why for all the talk about family values we offer fark all in the way of actually giving people time off so they can actually be with their family.


People USED to make enough money and have enough time off to actually spend time with their families or on civic involvement, that's why parents and especially grandparents talk so much about the freemasons, the elks, bowling leagues... they had the TIME to do this shiat.
 
2014-03-26 03:56:51 AM  

AverageAmericanGuy: doglover: RanDomino: [www.iww.org image 299x342]

You laugh, but with modern technology 4 hours a day accomplishes a shiat ton more than 8 or 12 used to. There's no John Henry that can out-harvest a combine.

He's not laughing. He's a true believer.


Hey, ummm...the boss wants five copies of that report you just finished, as soon as possible.

Ohh, sorry.  The printer's broken, you can't just open the file on your computer, hit "print" five times, then have a cup of coffee while you wait for all the paper to come out.
Copy machine's down, too.

But we found your original copy and here's a typewriter, have at it.  Oh yeah, no printer means no AutoCAD renders, either, doesn't it?  Well, there's a lightbox table and plenty of sketching paper.  You want a compass, straightedge, and slide rule too, or are you good with just freehanding it?

Oh did I forget to mention he wants it in the other office, the one halfway across the country?  No, you know him, he won't accept an emailed master copy, take it to Kinkos, and have them do it on their copy machines...type it up by hand and mail it, chop chop.

/I expect by now you understand office automation's productivity increases...
 
2014-03-26 04:01:37 AM  

Shadowe: Why? Because American culture isn't anti-welfare, that's a common misunderstanding. American culture is Pro-Suffering.


Most insightful comment I've ever read on Fark.
/Newsletter please?
 
2014-03-26 04:09:44 AM  
Fark the Calvinist work ethic. Fark it right in the ear.
 
2014-03-26 04:13:54 AM  

doglover: RanDomino: [www.iww.org image 299x342]

You laugh, but with modern technology 4 hours a day accomplishes a shiat ton more than 8 or 12 used to. There's no John Henry that can out-harvest a combine.


or out-drill a jackhammer, but we get your idea.
/let it whop, let it whop, let it whop that steel on down
 
2014-03-26 04:20:37 AM  

Ishidan: AverageAmericanGuy: doglover: RanDomino: [www.iww.org image 299x342]

You laugh, but with modern technology 4 hours a day accomplishes a shiat ton more than 8 or 12 used to. There's no John Henry that can out-harvest a combine.

He's not laughing. He's a true believer.

Hey, ummm...the boss wants five copies of that report you just finished, as soon as possible.

Ohh, sorry.  The printer's broken, you can't just open the file on your computer, hit "print" five times, then have a cup of coffee while you wait for all the paper to come out.
Copy machine's down, too.

But we found your original copy and here's a typewriter, have at it.  Oh yeah, no printer means no AutoCAD renders, either, doesn't it?  Well, there's a lightbox table and plenty of sketching paper.  You want a compass, straightedge, and slide rule too, or are you good with just freehanding it?

Oh did I forget to mention he wants it in the other office, the one halfway across the country?  No, you know him, he won't accept an emailed master copy, take it to Kinkos, and have them do it on their copy machines...type it up by hand and mail it, chop chop.

/I expect by now you understand office automation's productivity increases...


The problem is not that, the problem is that mentality is applied to work that must be done by people.

It's easy to say that since now we have such amazing productivity tools, it takes less people to complete a assignment. To certain extent it does, but now we've swung so far to one end, we expect more work out of one person that would be better completed with two.
 
2014-03-26 04:24:28 AM  
The problem is this paradigm is not sustainable.
 
2014-03-26 04:36:24 AM  
 
2014-03-26 04:59:16 AM  

SuperTramp: U.S. The Only Advanced Economy That Does Not Require Employers To Provide Paid Vacation Time

[b-i.forbesimg.com image 624x445]


Well I mean, think about it. All that money being diverted from the shareholders. Paying vacation time could have an adverse effect. It might devalue stock. Bad idea. Best to keep it voluntary. That way struggling corporations can keep their holdings in the US.
 
2014-03-26 05:05:14 AM  

Gyrfalcon: You have to have your priorities, and decide what you can live without, is all. And what you want to have.

My sister has five kids, a full-time job, a dog, and a mostly worthless husband (he works, and that's about it). The kids all have various sports activities, homework, piles of clothes, and demands on her attention. She tried for a while; but now she takes time to sleep, eat, and read by not cleaning the house every day, or cooking dinner every night. The kids get take-out or pizza or chicken nuggets for dinner.

If people don't like it (it drives my mom crazy), well, too bad. She's busy and wants to have fun with her kids now and to live to see all her grandkids someday, so something has to give, and since my BIL won't do his share of the chores, it's live in a messy house and don't cook for five finicky kids all the time. And she's a lot less stressed than many of these women with fewer kids who are trying to live the perfect suburban dream.

You just CAN'T have it all, ladies and gentlemen. Sorry.


And if she could read the instructions on a box of condoms, she wouldn't have all of these problems.
 
2014-03-26 05:07:10 AM  

Deacon Blue: Yeah, you do all that, and then some asshole hacks your account, steals what he wants, sells the rest, and deletes all your toons except for the level one blue haired gnome you rolled for the 20 man raid on Hogger.  So you get so depressed you delete the entire game.  Game over, man, game over.


I'm so sorry, I don't speak Nerd...
 
2014-03-26 05:16:43 AM  

whidbey: SuperTramp: U.S. The Only Advanced Economy That Does Not Require Employers To Provide Paid Vacation Time

[b-i.forbesimg.com image 624x445]

Well I mean, think about it. All that money being diverted from the shareholders. Paying vacation time could have an adverse effect. It might devalue stock. Bad idea. Best to keep it voluntary. That way struggling corporations can keep their holdings in the US.


yep, and of course, paid vacations would move the U.S. toward the dreaded soshulizms.
 
2014-03-26 06:07:39 AM  

Shadowe: Because American culture isn't anti-welfare, that's a common misunderstanding. American culture is Pro-Suffering.


I kind of always described it as U.S. style economics is the most efficient mechanism for converting resources into misery.
 
2014-03-26 06:12:14 AM  
If my coworkers would simply do the job assigned, when assigned, we might actually not be stressed all the freaking time.  Instead, it's let's have another meeting to discuss the project, another meeting to brainstorm how we can recruit volunteers to do the work and give us credit, table the discussion until after a couple of days pass, see deadline as a mere suggestion, have a few more meetings to discuss how awful all the rough sketches are, realize deadline is now imminent, stress out and accept any rough draft as final, complain bitterly over rejection by consumers, nit-pick the carcass, move on to next project.  Lather, rinse, repeat until downsizing occurs, when all the newest hires are fired, and the fossils continue to do business from the good old days of the 1960's, while complaining about getting no appreciation from the industry for being an example of a zombie, living off past glories.
 
2014-03-26 06:19:57 AM  
The last three weeks:

*I've AVERAGED 67 hours a week
*Worked in every section of my plant (there's 5) in a desperate attempt to keep overpromised production flowing from an undermanned plant
*Made an emergency trip (950 miles round trip in 24 hrs, blowing out my first full weekend in three weeks) to save a customer when one of our other plants couldn't understand simple English
*Pulled firewatch duty (12 hrs) because one of the min wagers we hired to simply sit and make sure the building wasn't burning would leave the freaking plant after a couple hours, go home and go to sleep, then come back just before everybody would show up
*And this morning will be hauled on the carpet to explain why things aren't going smoothly

But no, I'm not stressed.
 
2014-03-26 06:25:34 AM  

AlwaysRightBoy: I work with so many 20-year-olds in NYC that I want to kill KILL KILL!

/maybe a little more of kill.. KILL KILL KILLL.... seriously how did they ever make it through college.. It amazes me? Half of these kids that are sent to me and I have to hire don't know what a shoelase is no lest the jist of what ad work is like..
/old guy in the ad bis... kill KILL KILL KILL Wahhhhhhhhhhhhh


There's some serious irony in this.
 
2014-03-26 06:30:14 AM  

cherryl taggart: If my coworkers would simply do the job assigned, when assigned, we might actually not be stressed all the freaking time.  Instead, it's let's have another meeting to discuss the project, another meeting to brainstorm how we can recruit volunteers to do the work and give us credit, table the discussion until after a couple of days pass, see deadline as a mere suggestion, have a few more meetings to discuss how awful all the rough sketches are, realize deadline is now imminent, stress out and accept any rough draft as final, complain bitterly over rejection by consumers, nit-pick the carcass, move on to next project.  Lather, rinse, repeat until downsizing occurs, when all the newest hires are fired, and the fossils continue to do business from the good old days of the 1960's, while complaining about getting no appreciation from the industry for being an example of a zombie, living off past glories.


Wow. I heard it was bad at Microsoft, but wow.
 
2014-03-26 06:38:37 AM  

AverageAmericanGuy: A lot of the "quality of life" complaints derive from the hell that men put up with at home from their wives who complain about the men being at work all the time and never helping at home. It's as if they don't understand the concept of division of labor.

I work hard to support the family, my job is to continue increasing my pay so as to make my family comfortable. Your job as a stay-at-home wife is to take care of the daily routine of the house. Washing the dishes, dear, is your job, no matter how much you think I should do it because you're "tired" and have been "busy all day".

Housework is tough. No one said it wasn't. But so is earning a living. Everyone has a job to do. Quitcherbiatchin.


So after a day at work, HE gets to kick back and put his feet up... but HER day at work keeps going?  That sounds... equitable.
 
2014-03-26 06:47:03 AM  

SuperTramp: U.S. The Only Advanced Economy That Does Not Require Employers To Provide Paid Vacation Time


I think this is a big part of our stress.

Unrealistic cultural expectations about our need for down time.not crash in front of the tv, exhausted. But actual time to regenerate energy and do creative things.

I enjoyed the article.i definitely relate.
 
2014-03-26 07:04:45 AM  
I've got more on my plate than a spinster at a wedding.
 
2014-03-26 07:13:53 AM  
I like work.  I work with Software development or engineers.  Except for petty BS from marketing, sales, accounting and HR, I work in a good industry.
I have what I consider a high quality of life.  It took some maturity to see how good I have had it, but once I was able to see that I really don't have major problems other than debt, I realized my life is much better than I thought it was in my 20's.
 
2014-03-26 07:24:03 AM  
This is definitely a bookmark for later.
 
2014-03-26 07:33:08 AM  
"the OECD sliced GDP per hours worked to get an hourly productivity rate, and for several of the years studied, the U.S. falls several rungs below other countries with more rational work-life policies, such as France."

Nurr!  NURRR!!!!  SOeshializms!  Surendurrs!  Eat cheese! NUUURRRR!!!
 
2014-03-26 07:38:43 AM  
After ten years at the same job, working too many hours, never seeing my kids and feeling like blowing my head off I quit last August. My wife and I worked it so I could have some time to decompress before I went back to work. I am happier and more adjusted. I guess I have become Mr Mom and I dig it.

I am supposed to start a new job this week; (I was head hunted, they came to me) and they may not take me on because I told them my family life, family business (wife has a restaurant) and sanity is more important than cranking out 60-70 hours a week . They didn't understand what I meant. They think it is normal to work that much and never see their families. I tried to explain to them that I spent the last 10 years making someone else rich, working from 4:30 am to 4pm and then fielding calls and emails from home and I wasn't interested in it any more,

I'll work part time for tips before I miss out on family, vacation and sleep ever again.
 
2014-03-26 07:41:38 AM  
Guh, read the article and I will say that subby's headline was more interesting.  Basically it's a pitch for a book written by a woman who wanted to work and have a family and got pissed because she had nervous breakdowns from the stress of not being able to have it all and people called her out on her bullshiat.  Granted, there are some interesting points to be made here.  Men and women are so overworked they're just not having families anymore (the ones that are breeding are more likely to breed first and desperately seek work later), and it's frankly unfeasible to raise a kid on a single income these days.  Our society's priorities are warped, sure.  But these are family problems, not just your problems, biatch.  Instead of making what would've been a compelling book (albeit one written before) about America's "pro-suffering" culture, it's all about her.

Hey lady, we can agree that you staying up late folding laundry while your husband sleeps soundly is a problem.  What it isn't is some goddamn reflection of a total failure of society.  Sit the guy down, have a talk about splitting chores and leave the rest of us out of it you whiny kunt.
 
2014-03-26 07:57:32 AM  

whidbey: The problem is this paradigm is not sustainable.


Nobody has made a better case for socialism than the way capitalists have done.
 
2014-03-26 08:01:38 AM  

indy_kid: The assembly line at the Ford plant in the very early days was so fast, workers would become psychotic and attack each other.  Henry Ford slowed the line and the violence quickly subsided.

IMHO, all the gains of TR's Progressive Republicans and the various unions over the years have essentially been eliminated.  Now we're seeing the elimination of basic civil rights with the number of insane SCOTUS rulings, shiat like that AZ law and the Hobby Lobby nonsense.

Give it another decade and we'll envy the Chinese for their civil and worker's rights!


Your comment about  Ford assembly line violence was fascinating. Makes eminent sense as well.

Could this be behind the suicides at Foxcomm? The violence turns inwards.

How anyone can work on an assembly line and not go nuts - that's the miracle.
 
2014-03-26 08:02:40 AM  
Sounds like somebody has a case of the Mondays.
 
2014-03-26 08:21:50 AM  
Just get rid of all exemptions to overtime, make any overtime above 100 hours per year voluntary, meaning once you get to 100 hours, if you want to go home and not work overtime if you have other plans, you can do so. Also at least 3 weeks paid vacation for everyone. And at least 9 months leave for each parent after the birth of a child.
 
2014-03-26 08:23:04 AM  
Quit complaining! We're lucky to have jobs, and piss on our heads to keep us warm.
 
2014-03-26 08:24:06 AM  

AverageAmericanGuy: A lot of the "quality of life" complaints derive from the hell that men put up with at home from their wives who complain about the men being at work all the time and never helping at home. It's as if they don't understand the concept of division of labor.

I work hard to support the family, my job is to continue increasing my pay so as to make my family comfortable. Your job as a stay-at-home wife is to take care of the daily routine of the house. Washing the dishes, dear, is your job, no matter how much you think I should do it because you're "tired" and have been "busy all day".

Housework is tough. No one said it wasn't. But so is earning a living. Everyone has a job to do. Quitcherbiatchin.


What the shiat?

Did I wake up in the 1960s?

...

Don Draper?
 
2014-03-26 08:27:37 AM  

Shadowe: Why? Because American culture isn't anti-welfare, that's a common misunderstanding. American culture is Pro-Suffering. That's why for all the talk about family values we offer fark all in the way of actually giving people time off so they can actually be with their family.


Holy crap that makes perfect sense.  Parents constantly telling the kids how hard they had it.  The "greatest generation" so named because they dealt with the depression and a world war.  Rooting for the underdog being a cultural requirement.  Politicians and contest winners needing to have a sob story before they are considered for talent or ability (see American Idol).

I still maintain that all American culture is rooted in travel, but good call on that insight.
 
2014-03-26 08:29:09 AM  

doglover: AverageAmericanGuy: doglover: RanDomino: [www.iww.org image 299x342]

You laugh, but with modern technology 4 hours a day accomplishes a shiat ton more than 8 or 12 used to. There's no John Henry that can out-harvest a combine.

He's not laughing. He's a true believer.

So am I. Romans lived the farkin' life through slavery. That's immoral and wrong. However, now we have machines and robots. Slaves that have no ability to be free nor sentience to appreciate freedom even were it granted. Constructs, devoid of all but the purpose to which they're set.

We could all live like the richer castes of Roman society with a few simple changes to our societal philosophy. Let the machines do the crap work and focus on self actualization. Make money into a thing that is only used for recreation and ornamentation. The basics, like food and water and shelter, can easily be free with minimum human labor.

In my ideal world, we'd all be guaranteed a life like in a free to play MMORPG. Tunic, hut, basic medical, hygine and all the nutraloaf you can eat. That's farkin' it. Pretty good for a homeless dude. Pretty shiat for anyone else. So, what we would do next is make all things like cooking, textiles, the arts, basically all the same shiat we do now, extra. That would cost money. You want decent food? Cough up some coins? Want coins? Offer up some value to another person. Carve a nice walking stick, sell it to a man who needs one, buy yourself a burger. You've earned it.

It would be hard at first, but ideally we'd have a hybrid of capitalism and communism. An actual working society where we work a bit for others and a lot for our own pet projects. Minimize this idea that you have to do drudgery, because you really don't.


Where do I sign up to elect you Emperor of the World?
 
2014-03-26 08:32:18 AM  

doglover: AverageAmericanGuy: doglover: RanDomino: [www.iww.org image 299x342]

You laugh, but with modern technology 4 hours a day accomplishes a shiat ton more than 8 or 12 used to. There's no John Henry that can out-harvest a combine.

He's not laughing. He's a true believer.

So am I. Romans lived the farkin' life through slavery. That's immoral and wrong. However, now we have machines and robots. Slaves that have no ability to be free nor sentience to appreciate freedom even were it granted. Constructs, devoid of all but the purpose to which they're set.

We could all live like the richer castes of Roman society with a few simple changes to our societal philosophy. Let the machines do the crap work and focus on self actualization. Make money into a thing that is only used for recreation and ornamentation. The basics, like food and water and shelter, can easily be free with minimum human labor.

In my ideal world, we'd all be guaranteed a life like in a free to play MMORPG. Tunic, hut, basic medical, hygine and all the nutraloaf you can eat. That's farkin' it. Pretty good for a homeless dude. Pretty shiat for anyone else. So, what we would do next is make all things like cooking, textiles, the arts, basically all the same shiat we do now, extra. That would cost money. You want decent food? Cough up some coins? Want coins? Offer up some value to another person. Carve a nice walking stick, sell it to a man who needs one, buy yourself a burger. You've earned it.

It would be hard at first, but ideally we'd have a hybrid of capitalism and communism. An actual working society where we work a bit for others and a lot for our own pet projects. Minimize this idea that you have to do drudgery, because you really don't.


Overall, the whole world now lives better than the Romans did.

We have tv, washing machines, and our children aren't dying as much. We live to be ancient.

Work still sucks, though. Gains in productivity go to the owners.
 
2014-03-26 08:32:33 AM  

WhyteRaven74: Just get rid of all exemptions to overtime, make any overtime above 100 hours per year voluntary, meaning once you get to 100 hours, if you want to go home and not work overtime if you have other plans, you can do so. Also at least 3 weeks paid vacation for everyone. And at least 9 months leave for each parent after the birth of a child.


You'd have to make any overtime over 100 hours illegal, not just voluntary, to have any effect.
 
2014-03-26 08:34:08 AM  

Shadowe: What you're describing doglover is basically a semi-scarcity or early post-scarcity economy. Think about it this way: What happens when our ability to produce exceeds our ability to consume to such a point that there's simply no need for every single person to work in order for us to be able to afford to feed and shelter every single person on a basic level?

We've already hit that point with food, the world produces enough food for everyone to be as fat as americans, but there isn't enough money in the world for everyone to buy their share of food. So we let them starve.

Why? Because American culture isn't anti-welfare, that's a common misunderstanding. American culture is Pro-Suffering. That's why for all the talk about family values we offer fark all in the way of actually giving people time off so they can actually be with their family.


People USED to make enough money and have enough time off to actually spend time with their families or on civic involvement, that's why parents and especially grandparents talk so much about the freemasons, the elks, bowling leagues... they had the TIME to do this shiat.


Suffering builds character. Supposed to, anyway.

These starving people should learn to pick themselves up.
 
2014-03-26 08:34:18 AM  

No Such Agency: So after a day at work, HE gets to kick back and put his feet up... but HER day at work keeps going?  That sounds... equitable.


It also explains why  AAAspends all of his time trolling Fark, because there's no way that guy is in a relationship with anything other than redtube.
 
2014-03-26 08:36:13 AM  

WhyteRaven74: Just get rid of all exemptions to overtime, make any overtime above 100 hours per year voluntary, meaning once you get to 100 hours, if you want to go home and not work overtime if you have other plans, you can do so. Also at least 3 weeks paid vacation for everyone. And at least 9 months leave for each parent after the birth of a child.


In my fantasy world, I'd love to get rid of salaried positions. At least when I was a kid working for hourly wages, overtime was an option. It's bullshiat to be paid the same whether I work 40 hours a week, or 80 or 100.

In my line of work (researcher paid solely from grants, which is another bullshiat thing, but I digress), we have this thing called effort reporting, which is a federal requirement that we certify that if half our salary in a given year was supposed to come from Project X and have from Project Y, that that was actually how our time spent working was divided. Note that I said "time spent working." That's because the definition of effort reporting explicitly avoids assuming a set number of hours a week. There's just something wrong about that, IMHO.
 
2014-03-26 08:40:52 AM  
I used to work for a sociopath who truly did believe someone having a family life was stealing from the company. He was big on conference calls at noon on mandated holidays, and he took precisely one week a year off (at the insistence of his wife) but every day of that week he had to have a morning and afternoon conference call and he stayed on email nonstop. He transferred an administrative assistant who had the temerity to take a full week off when her husband died.

You'll be happy to hear that he's in jail now for massive embezzlement and fraud. Apparently that wife was spending every penny she could while he was living his job
 
2014-03-26 08:48:26 AM  

Mr. Coffee Nerves: I used to work for a sociopath who truly did believe someone having a family life was stealing from the company. He was big on conference calls at noon on mandated holidays, and he took precisely one week a year off (at the insistence of his wife) but every day of that week he had to have a morning and afternoon conference call and he stayed on email nonstop. He transferred an administrative assistant who had the temerity to take a full week off when her husband died.

You'll be happy to hear that he's in jail now for massive embezzlement and fraud. Apparently that wife was spending every penny she could while he was living his job


50/50 that wasn't dedication, that was paranoia.  If he didn't check in on the office, someone might go through his files and find evidence.  If he couldn't check on people constantly, they might be talking behind his back.
 
2014-03-26 08:53:03 AM  
I'm 27 so I'm in the beginning stages of the life we all dread. I work for a good company that is actually Canadian and while we don't have Family Day every month like they do they are pretty generous with other benefits.

I took my first trip to Europe a few weeks ago and I was shocked to see so many young people say fark it and just move to an entirely new country and see what they could do to live. The Europeans we met didn't understand why we couldn't extend our vacation and tag along with them to whatever city they were off to next. They all asked if it was true that we worked a ton of hours and only got two weeks off. It was interesting and depressing at the same time.
 
2014-03-26 09:00:22 AM  

WienerButt: I'm 27 so I'm in the beginning stages of the life we all dread. I work for a good company that is actually Canadian and while we don't have Family Day every month like they do they are pretty generous with other benefits.

I took my first trip to Europe a few weeks ago and I was shocked to see so many young people say fark it and just move to an entirely new country and see what they could do to live. The Europeans we met didn't understand why we couldn't extend our vacation and tag along with them to whatever city they were off to next. They all asked if it was true that we worked a ton of hours and only got two weeks off. It was interesting and depressing at the same time.


Lazy Europeans.

Who wants to live like that?
 
2014-03-26 09:01:45 AM  

Lydia_C: In my fantasy world, I'd love to get rid of salaried positions.


There's a reason for them though.  I've worked jobs where some travel was required, for example, to visit customers on-site.  At what point am I working or not working?  When I'm packing?  On the way to the airport?  Sleeping on the plane?  Eating at a restaurant?  Decompressing in my hotel room playing video games?  I'm spending time for the company in the sense that I'm away from family in a boring town with nothing to do, but I'm not really on the clock either.  And what about response-based on-call work, like electrical repair?  They should get paid overtime when they're burning the midnight oil, but do we not pay them when they're at home waiting for a call?  It makes it impossible for them (or the employer for that matter) to budget.

For occupations where the definition of "work" is more nebulous, salary makes sense.  It doesn't make a lick of sense (except for greedy owners) for stuff like store managers where their work can very easily be measured in hours, and they're only moved to salary to screw them out of 20-30 hours of pay per week.

Mr. Coffee Nerves: You'll be happy to hear that he's in jail now for massive embezzlement and fraud.


I'll keep an eye out for him on next election's ballot.
 
2014-03-26 09:02:29 AM  

AlwaysRightBoy: I work with so many 20-year-olds in NYC that I want to kill KILL KILL!

/maybe a little more of kill.. KILL KILL KILLL.... seriously how did they ever make it through college.. It amazes me? Half of these kids that are sent to me and I have to hire don't know what a shoelase is no lest the jist of what ad work is like..
/old guy in the ad bis... kill KILL KILL KILL Wahhhhhhhhhhhhh


*pulls a medal out and pins it on*
You're our boy.

/now back to reading the thread
 
2014-03-26 09:12:25 AM  

SuperTramp: U.S. The Only Advanced Economy That Does Not Require Employers To Provide Paid Vacation Time

[b-i.forbesimg.com image 624x445]


So much THIS.

Where is that old commercial from Universal Studios Florida when I need it!
 
2014-03-26 09:14:50 AM  

dragonchild: Lydia_C: In my fantasy world, I'd love to get rid of salaried positions.

There's a reason for them though.  I've worked jobs where some travel was required, for example, to visit customers on-site.  At what point am I working or not working?  When I'm packing?  On the way to the airport?  Sleeping on the plane?  Eating at a restaurant?  Decompressing in my hotel room playing video games?  I'm spending time for the company in the sense that I'm away from family in a boring town with nothing to do, but I'm not really on the clock either.  And what about response-based on-call work, like electrical repair?  They should get paid overtime when they're burning the midnight oil, but do we not pay them when they're at home waiting for a call?  It makes it impossible for them (or the employer for that matter) to budget.

For occupations where the definition of "work" is more nebulous, salary makes sense.  It doesn't make a lick of sense (except for greedy owners) for stuff like store managers where their work can very easily be measured in hours, and they're only moved to salary to screw them out of 20-30 hours of pay per week.



I do realize that salaried positions can have a purpose. But for some things like travel it's not impossible to figure out a way to handle number of hours in a standardized way, instead of assuming that the person isn't nebulously working/not working the entire time while out of the office. (Certainly, no one I know who ever traveled for work had any trouble identifying personal time while away.)

Mostly I'm just bothered by the fact that salaried positions are so often taken as a license to abuse people's fear of losing their jobs by trying to wring burnout-worthy amounts of work from them and not paying them for their effort.
 
2014-03-26 09:14:57 AM  

WhyteRaven74: Just get rid of all exemptions to overtime, make any overtime above 100 hours per year voluntary


Alas, in the corporate world, "voluntary" always seems to mean "do it, or we'll find a reason to fire you and hire someone who WILL do it".  You'd have to have truly ironclad worker protections in place to make that effective.
 
2014-03-26 09:16:33 AM  

Lydia_C: dragonchild: Lydia_C: In my fantasy world, I'd love to get rid of salaried positions.

There's a reason for them though.  I've worked jobs where some travel was required, for example, to visit customers on-site.  At what point am I working or not working?  When I'm packing?  On the way to the airport?  Sleeping on the plane?  Eating at a restaurant?  Decompressing in my hotel room playing video games?  I'm spending time for the company in the sense that I'm away from family in a boring town with nothing to do, but I'm not really on the clock either.  And what about response-based on-call work, like electrical repair?  They should get paid overtime when they're burning the midnight oil, but do we not pay them when they're at home waiting for a call?  It makes it impossible for them (or the employer for that matter) to budget.

For occupations where the definition of "work" is more nebulous, salary makes sense.  It doesn't make a lick of sense (except for greedy owners) for stuff like store managers where their work can very easily be measured in hours, and they're only moved to salary to screw them out of 20-30 hours of pay per week.


I do realize that salaried positions can have a purpose. But for some things like travel it's not impossible to figure out a way to handle number of hours in a standardized way, instead of assuming that the person isn't nebulously working/not working the entire time while out of the office. (Certainly, no one I know who ever traveled for work had any trouble identifying personal time while away.)

Mostly I'm just bothered by the fact that salaried positions are so often taken as a license to abuse people's fear of losing their jobs by trying to wring burnout-worthy amounts of work from them and not paying them for their effort.


This.
 
2014-03-26 09:23:34 AM  
Are you nervy, irritable, depressed, tired of life? ;) Keep it up.

i.onionstatic.com
 
2014-03-26 09:41:44 AM  

Lydia_C: for some things like travel it's not impossible to figure out a way to handle number of hours in a standardized way


Possible, yes, but to replace salary you need to come up with something better.

Lydia_C: Mostly I'm just bothered by the fact that salaried positions are so often taken as a license to abuse people's fear of losing their jobs


We're in agreement there; I just question the priorities of your New World Order.  No free beer or naked donut parties, but hey at least everyone's hourly again?
 
2014-03-26 09:52:41 AM  

dragonchild: Lydia_C: for some things like travel it's not impossible to figure out a way to handle number of hours in a standardized way

Possible, yes, but to replace salary you need to come up with something better.


On travel days, a combination of hours traveled plus some comp time to be taken later, or a travel premium of x hours per day away? Just one idea, I'm sure creative minds can come up with solutions that are acceptable to staff based on industry expectations and the company's budget.


Lydia_C: Mostly I'm just bothered by the fact that salaried positions are so often taken as a license to abuse people's fear of losing their jobs

We're in agreement there; I just question the priorities of your New World Order.  No free beer or naked donut parties, but hey at least everyone's hourly again?


Where the heck do you work that you get free beer and donut parties??? We don't even get free coffee in my office.   :-/
 
2014-03-26 09:55:57 AM  

No Such Agency: WhyteRaven74: Just get rid of all exemptions to overtime, make any overtime above 100 hours per year voluntary

Alas, in the corporate world, "voluntary" always seems to mean "do it, or we'll find a reason to fire you and hire someone who WILL do it".  You'd have to have truly ironclad worker protections in place to make that effective.


Yeah, nothing like getting biatched at for leaving the office at 6:30 when there isn't a deadline/crunch time and I'm on track for 65 hours that week.  If people are trying to figure out why Americans are so over worked, look towards the corporate culture where its a dick waiving contest between everyone over how much you can work in a week and how important you are for working that many hours.

/finally got off that train
//public sector work FTW
 
2014-03-26 10:08:59 AM  

Gyrfalcon: You have to have your priorities, and decide what you can live without, is all. And what you want to have.

My sister has five kids, a full-time job, a dog, and a mostly worthless husband (he works, and that's about it). The kids all have various sports activities, homework, piles of clothes, and demands on her attention. She tried for a while; but now she takes time to sleep, eat, and read by not cleaning the house every day, or cooking dinner every night. The kids get take-out or pizza or chicken nuggets for dinner.

If people don't like it (it drives my mom crazy), well, too bad. She's busy and wants to have fun with her kids now and to live to see all her grandkids someday, so something has to give, and since my BIL won't do his share of the chores, it's live in a messy house and don't cook for five finicky kids all the time. And she's a lot less stressed than many of these women with fewer kids who are trying to live the perfect suburban dream.

You just CAN'T have it all, ladies and gentlemen. Sorry.


THIS.  There's a lot of burden that falls on women: laundry, kid wrangling, organizing household life, cooking, etc.Their hubby's either don't do it because they don't know how or they consider it "girl work".

Also, I found that some women have a hard time letting men do this sort of work because "they won't do it right". It's really hard for them to let go because when people see a messy house they blame it on the woman and not the man because culturally we think "Well MEN are SUPPOSED to be messy."

Case in point, when my mother came to visit me once after a month of working 12 hour days to launch a website, and she took it upon herself to yell at me for having a messy household. Just me, not my husband or my roommate, both men.

A complicating factor for modern women is that while we where taught to do both traditionally girl and boy chores, our brothers where not. When I confronted my mother about this at a teen*, she confessed that she didn't realize what she was doing this and changed her ways after that.

My Husband and I both had to work this out and it's been a long road. I had to be willing to deal with something less than perfect and he need to learn how to cook and what our "acceptable" level of mess was.

On top of it all, if your Mom is so concerned with your sister's house SHE should pay for a cleaning and laundry service. I know in America people tend to only think this is for the rich but it's not that expensive. Why do you think Mrs. Brady had a housekeeper?

/*I was tried of doing kitchen cleaning, laundry, and weeding while my brothers only had to do lawn work during the summer
 
2014-03-26 10:11:12 AM  

Lydia_C: Where the heck do you work that you get free beer and donut parties??


In my fantasies, unlike yours:

Lydia_C: In my fantasy world, I'd love to get rid of salaried positions.


I see your point, but talk about a lack of imagination!  Work must have killed your dreams.
 
2014-03-26 10:12:25 AM  

Lenny_da_Hog: Hmm. I don't see a column for "Stress" or "Quality of Life" here on the spreadsheet... And I don't see it in Oracle... It doesn't appear anywhere on the profit and loss report....

It must not be an issue.


Yeah, I don't see them under my S.M.A.R.T goals for the quarter, so they aren't important.
 
2014-03-26 10:15:52 AM  

shortymac: THIS.  There's a lot of burden that falls on women: laundry, kid wrangling, organizing household life, cooking, etc.Their hubby's either don't do it because they don't know how or they consider it "girl work".


Way to generalize.

I know plenty of men who pull their weight in dual income households. Hell, I cook more often than she does (it helps that I enjoy it).
 
2014-03-26 10:17:11 AM  

dragonchild: Lydia_C: Where the heck do you work that you get free beer and donut parties??

In my fantasies, unlike yours:

Lydia_C: In my fantasy world, I'd love to get rid of salaried positions.

I see your point, but talk about a lack of imagination!  Work must have killed your dreams.



Well played - can I blame my lack of office-provided coffee? :-)

At the moment, at least part of my job lets me fantasize about sci-fi kinds of things, so at least that's helping to make up for being salaried...
 
2014-03-26 10:19:26 AM  

sendtodave: Overall, the whole world now lives better than the Romans did.


We have tv, washing machines, and our children aren't dying as much. We live to be ancient.

Work still sucks, though. Gains in productivity go to the owners.


encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com

"Tell me more about how much your job interferes with your happiness..."

 
2014-03-26 10:19:47 AM  

jst3p: Way to generalize. I know plenty of men who pull their weight in dual income households.


Of course she's generalizing.  If you want to talk about a social problem with at least one exception that's the only way to do it.
 
2014-03-26 10:24:05 AM  

dragonchild: jst3p: Way to generalize. I know plenty of men who pull their weight in dual income households.

Of course she's generalizing.  If you want to talk about a social problem with at least one exception that's the only way to do it.


Fair enough, but my anecdotal evidence suggests that the stereotype of the dual income households where she has to do everything is dying out. Women know they don't have to put up with that shiat anymore.
 
2014-03-26 10:26:45 AM  

jst3p: sendtodave: Overall, the whole world now lives better than the Romans did.
We have tv, washing machines, and our children aren't dying as much. We live to be ancient.

Work still sucks, though. Gains in productivity go to the owners.

[encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com image 200x198]"Tell me more about how much your job interferes with your happiness..."


gapminder.org

Quality of life worldwide is better than the first world 100 years ago.

Some places still lag behind, of course.  But they'll catch up.

Even Ethiopia is doing better.
 
2014-03-26 10:36:30 AM  

AverageAmericanGuy: A lot of the "quality of life" complaints derive from the hell that men put up with at home from their wives who complain about the men being at work all the time and never helping at home. It's as if they don't understand the concept of division of labor.

I work hard to support the family, my job is to continue increasing my pay so as to make my family comfortable. Your job as a stay-at-home wife is to take care of the daily routine of the house. Washing the dishes, dear, is your job, no matter how much you think I should do it because you're "tired" and have been "busy all day".

Housework is tough. No one said it wasn't. But so is earning a living. Everyone has a job to do. Quitcherbiatchin.


The vast majority of their wives aren't stay-at-home moms, they are working a full-time job as well.
 
2014-03-26 10:36:45 AM  
I work 40 hours a week and get about 4 weeks vacation time.  I don't make that much money for the corporate world but my stress level is pretty low.  Plus I live a pretty simple life.  Never cared about the newest toys.  I just like to spend my free time playing in the mountains and seeing new places.  If my job becomes stressful I'll go somewhere else for less money and cut back on my lifestyle.  Life's too short to be unhappy.
 
2014-03-26 10:37:56 AM  

shortymac: Case in point, when my mother came to visit me once after a month of working 12 hour days to launch a website, and she took it upon herself to yell at me for having a messy household. Just me, not my husband or my roommate, both men.

A complicating factor for modern women is that while we where taught to do both traditionally girl and boy chores, our brothers where not. When I confronted my mother about this at a teen*, she confessed that she didn't realize what she was doing this and changed her ways after that.

My Husband and I both had to work this out and it's been a long road. I had to be willing to deal with something less than perfect and he need to learn how to cook and what our "acceptable" level of mess was.

On top of it all, if your Mom is so concerned with your sister's house SHE should pay for a cleaning and laundry service. I know in America people tend to only think this is for the rich but it's not that expensive. Why do you think Mrs. Brady had a housekeeper?

/*I was tried of doing kitchen cleaning, laundry, and weeding while my brothers only had to do lawn work during the summer


It's funny. When we bought our house, Mr. Dragon and I had to set out some rules about division of labor, not because we were trying to be progressive or anything, but because we're both the type who hate it when we have a system and someone else dinks with it. Some of it was pretty gender-neutral; he handles anything plumbing-related, whereas I handle anything electricity-related. This was because my mom's dad had been an electrician, and he'd taught her stuff that she then taught me. I didn't know much, but I knew more than the zero that he did, so that's how it fell.

But some things we just divided along gender lines because that was easier. Anything that needed doing outside the house, apart from tending gardens or specific plants/areas (like the fire pit, or maple trees), is his problem. Mowing, the lawn, getting the trash to the curb (the kids' problem now), etc. And that wasn't because either of us felt strongly about the assigned gender roles, it was because a) he's physically stronger than me (we live on 2.6 acres of forest, so strength matters more) and 2) he's had more experience with large power tools than I have. I can learn power tools, but we got more done faster by eliminating that learning curve. (I've since used those same tools to build shelves for inside and stuff.)

We also learned an important thing from a family counselor (the kids and I all have ADHD, and we've been seen by a lot of specialists over time): that just by the simple fact of our household being "dad, mom, son, son", we have to be extra careful about who does which chores because, even if we never mean to send the message, it's far too easy for the kids to learn that certain jobs are "woman's work" simply because I'm the only one who ever does them. We try to make an effort, but it's insidious how easy it is to accidentally gender-encode a task.

At the end of the day, though, my mom always has a problem. The house isn't completely perfectly clean. There's still painter's tape on the walls from the rooms we didn't quite finish up. The kids don't get a perfectly balanced, HOT breakfast every day and we don't eat a nutritious, three-course (meat, potato, veg) dinner promptly at 6. I don't always make it to every single school performance (I work a traveling job and have MS besides). There will always be a flaw, and I've learned to live with the fact that my mom's gonna get judgey about all the time I spend "playing dolls with my BFFs" (I make and sell dolls, that's the job) and not being farking Donna Reed.

/at this point I just tune her out
//she gets even angrier when I do that, but I tune that out now too
///we're making it work though
/the point is, the article is really good and I'm enjoying the thread immensely
 
2014-03-26 10:44:43 AM  
btw, who said these slaves had an opinion?   get back to work, Freedom Fighters!!   there is Wealth to create and send up to your Owners!
 
2014-03-26 10:55:42 AM  

No Such Agency: AverageAmericanGuy: A lot of the "quality of life" complaints derive from the hell that men put up with at home from their wives who complain about the men being at work all the time and never helping at home. It's as if they don't understand the concept of division of labor.

I work hard to support the family, my job is to continue increasing my pay so as to make my family comfortable. Your job as a stay-at-home wife is to take care of the daily routine of the house. Washing the dishes, dear, is your job, no matter how much you think I should do it because you're "tired" and have been "busy all day".

Housework is tough. No one said it wasn't. But so is earning a living. Everyone has a job to do. Quitcherbiatchin.

So after a day at work, HE gets to kick back and put his feet up... but HER day at work keeps going?  That sounds... equitable.


If she is a stay at home wife? Yes he does and yes, it is equitable.

1 - 1.5 hour(s) to get food in the kids and get them to

2-3 hours for chores

And that leaves us with abou 4-5 hours for misc. activities. Not counting the overtime and travelling time of the husband.

If being a stay at home parent takes more than 8 hours a day in various chores and responsibilities you are doing it wrong. I advise buying a vacuum cleaner and a clothes washer instead of doing it all by hand.

Hell, even the children are in school for like 35 hours a week. Lots of free time during those hours. And after age 10 or so they'll find things to amuse themselves. They'll dress themselves long before that and they are perfectly capable of making breakfast for themselves.
 
2014-03-26 11:02:08 AM  
You can complain, or you can complain and organize with your fellow workers so we can put an end to this crap. Your choice.
 
2014-03-26 11:03:24 AM  

RanDomino: organize with your fellow workers


Right-to-work provisions (either by law or by constitutional provision) exist in 24 U.S. states.
 
2014-03-26 11:09:37 AM  

Shadowe: Why? Because American culture isn't anti-welfare, that's a common misunderstanding. American culture is Pro-Suffering. That's why for all the talk about family values we offer fark all in the way of actually giving people time off so they can actually be with their family.

People USED to make enough money and have enough time off to actually spend time with their families or on civic involvement, that's why parents and especially grandparents talk so much about the freemasons, the elks, bowling leagues... they had the TIME to do this shiat.



This is one of the most insightful things I've ever read on Fark.
 
2014-03-26 11:12:39 AM  

WienerButt: I'm 27 so I'm in the beginning stages of the life we all dread. I work for a good company that is actually Canadian and while we don't have Family Day every month like they do they are pretty generous with other benefits.

I took my first trip to Europe a few weeks ago and I was shocked to see so many young people say fark it and just move to an entirely new country and see what they could do to live. The Europeans we met didn't understand why we couldn't extend our vacation and tag along with them to whatever city they were off to next. They all asked if it was true that we worked a ton of hours and only got two weeks off. It was interesting and depressing at the same time.


Canada's family day is once a year and is the same day as US Presidents Day.

Granted, starting with 3 weeks vacation is normal for white-collar work here.
 
2014-03-26 11:13:23 AM  

WienerButt: I'm 27 so I'm in the beginning stages of the life we all dread. I work for a good company that is actually Canadian and while we don't have Family Day every month like they do they are pretty generous with other benefits.

I took my first trip to Europe a few weeks ago and I was shocked to see so many young people say fark it and just move to an entirely new country and see what they could do to live. The Europeans we met didn't understand why we couldn't extend our vacation and tag along with them to whatever city they were off to next. They all asked if it was true that we worked a ton of hours and only got two weeks off. It was interesting and depressing at the same time.


This is why Continental Europe has contributed nothing to human civilization in the post-war era.
 
2014-03-26 11:15:00 AM  

SpeedyBB: indy_kid: The assembly line at the Ford plant in the very early days was so fast, workers would become psychotic and attack each other.  Henry Ford slowed the line and the violence quickly subsided.

IMHO, all the gains of TR's Progressive Republicans and the various unions over the years have essentially been eliminated.  Now we're seeing the elimination of basic civil rights with the number of insane SCOTUS rulings, shiat like that AZ law and the Hobby Lobby nonsense.

Give it another decade and we'll envy the Chinese for their civil and worker's rights!

Your comment about  Ford assembly line violence was fascinating. Makes eminent sense as well.

Could this be behind the suicides at Foxcomm? The violence turns inwards.

How anyone can work on an assembly line and not go nuts - that's the miracle.



Thus all those nets around the dorms at the Chinese plants building Apple products to catch the suicide attempts.  You work people like slaves and they're gonna snap at some point.  I'm just surprised people take it out on their family or co-workers instead of management or the physical plant.

There's a vid online that shows some Chinese kid jumping up from his school desk and out a 5th-floor window.  IMHO, if your school system is putting that much pressure on KIDS, imagine what the adults are going through.
 
2014-03-26 11:23:52 AM  

dragonchild: Lydia_C: In my fantasy world, I'd love to get rid of salaried positions.

There's a reason for them though.  I've worked jobs where some travel was required, for example, to visit customers on-site.  At what point am I working or not working?  When I'm packing?  On the way to the airport?  Sleeping on the plane?  Eating at a restaurant?  Decompressing in my hotel room playing video games?  I'm spending time for the company in the sense that I'm away from family in a boring town with nothing to do, but I'm not really on the clock either.  And what about response-based on-call work, like electrical repair?  They should get paid overtime when they're burning the midnight oil, but do we not pay them when they're at home waiting for a call?  It makes it impossible for them (or the employer for that matter) to budget.

For occupations where the definition of "work" is more nebulous, salary makes sense.  It doesn't make a lick of sense (except for greedy owners) for stuff like store managers where their work can very easily be measured in hours, and they're only moved to salary to screw them out of 20-30 hours of pay per week.

Mr. Coffee Nerves: You'll be happy to hear that he's in jail now for massive embezzlement and fraud.

I'll keep an eye out for him on next election's ballot.


Actually there is a way to do that. EMTs and similar jobs do have something called "on-call time" that gets paid to them. I think it was something like minimum wage while they where waiting, but as soon as they where called in it's their regular hourly wage. Some nights they didn't get called in and only got like 40 bucks, but at least they got something because they had to be at home waiting and ready to go, couldn't really do anything else.

So for traveling you could work out a system like that or a small bonus per week away from home for your trouble.
 
2014-03-26 11:47:26 AM  
Beware_Me:
This is why Continental Europe has contributed nothing to human civilization in the post-war era.

Not sure if serious.
/Poe's law?
 
2014-03-26 11:52:42 AM  
Most people I know in the corporate world, of both genders, are working much harder these days than a decade ago.  Most of them were "lucky" enough to survive layoffs...so now they're doing two jobs instead of one.  They're hard working and conscientious, but it's not mathematically possible to do two...or more than two...full-time jobs at the same time...so quality inevitably suffers.

And before you say "so what", I'll just add that some of them test drugs for efficacy and purity.  Drugs for humans.  Drugs you may be putting inside yourself some day.

What could possibly go wrong?
 
2014-03-26 11:58:19 AM  
"I stomped around seething that my "egalitarian" marriage left me up late folding laundry or wrapping Christmas presents or doing the dishes while my husband slept soundly. "

Reminds me of my wife.  I was working two jobs one of them sweating my ass off slugging overweight packages for fedex from 8 until almost midnight.  I had to take an extra shirt with me because my work shirt would be totally soaked.  Then i had to drive home and then shower.

Wife would biatch it up to her friends because I was a lazy ass getting to sleep in until 8, while she had to get up at 7.
 
2014-03-26 12:03:35 PM  
cynicalbastard: ...I could've given him a quick one.


That's probably how he got AIDS.
 
2014-03-26 12:08:25 PM  

shortymac: AverageAmericanGuy: A lot of the "quality of life" complaints derive from the hell that men put up with at home from their wives who complain about the men being at work all the time and never helping at home. It's as if they don't understand the concept of division of labor.

I work hard to support the family, my job is to continue increasing my pay so as to make my family comfortable. Your job as a stay-at-home wife is to take care of the daily routine of the house. Washing the dishes, dear, is your job, no matter how much you think I should do it because you're "tired" and have been "busy all day".

Housework is tough. No one said it wasn't. But so is earning a living. Everyone has a job to do. Quitcherbiatchin.

The vast majority of their wives aren't stay-at-home moms, they are working a full-time job as well.


My wife stopped working.

Ask me if she biatches all the time about having to do laundry.   Not my laundry, mind you.  I do my own, or else I would wake up Monday morning and find that my clothes are either unwashed, or worse, still in the washer.

I worked full time, 9 hours + hour commute each way.  Then to Fed 4 hours.  20 minutes home.

Say thanks?  Not once.

She did manage to biatch at me for not helping her enough with the kids.


If they want to biatch, they are going to biatch.  It doesn't matter if they have a job or not.

When she was mad, she would put the kids to bed early, so I would not get to see them before I had to go to my second job.
 
2014-03-26 12:11:33 PM  

jst3p: shortymac: THIS.  There's a lot of burden that falls on women: laundry, kid wrangling, organizing household life, cooking, etc.Their hubby's either don't do it because they don't know how or they consider it "girl work".

Way to generalize.

I know plenty of men who pull their weight in dual income households. Hell, I cook more often than she does (it helps that I enjoy it).


It's something that is slowly changing but a lot of women still find themselves stuck in gender roles.  http://business.time.com/2012/06/28/more-women-are-in-the-workforce-s o -why-are-we-still-doing-so-many-chores/

Also, if you read my whole post you'd know that I don't lay all the blame on men being lazy. Women also find that it's hard to give up control because the "men won't do it right".

This comes from the fact that culturally the women will be blamed if the house is messy. Also, I find that women have a lot of pressure to be "perfect" and it really farks with their minds. We have to be June Cleaver, the best employee at work, be nice to everyone, and pretty.

While there's a lot of pressure on men they aren't losing sleep over the fact that the dishes aren't done and he's gained a beer belly, it's mostly job/money based.

I think it because a woman's "power" comes from her social standing, which is comprised of her looks, her kids, her household, and now her job. With men a lot of the social standing comes from his money, so they face a lot of pressure to be the best provider, but not have a rocking body and a clean house. He can "buy" his way out of those with golddiggers and maids.

A lot of this isn't conscious, Lois Frankel's work really does a deep dive into this. I highly recommend her books "Good Girls Don't Get the Corner Office" and "Good Girls Don't Get Rich".
 
2014-03-26 12:12:18 PM  

Mr. Coffee Nerves: I used to work for a sociopath who truly did believe someone having a family life was stealing from the company. He was big on conference calls at noon on mandated holidays, and he took precisely one week a year off (at the insistence of his wife) but every day of that week he had to have a morning and afternoon conference call and he stayed on email nonstop. He transferred an administrative assistant who had the temerity to take a full week off when her husband died.

You'll be happy to hear that he's in jail now for massive embezzlement and fraud. Apparently that wife was spending every penny she could while he was living his job


I had a boss that was almost as bad as that. He would get mad at people for not answering their phones at 2-3 am when he had a question. When I went on vacation if I wasnt using my phone it was off. He got all pissy that I wasnt answering my phone and asked me where I was and I would say I was camping in the middle of nowhere. He got all pissy about that, but he would go on vacation and call all the time, it was worse than having him here.
 
2014-03-26 12:15:06 PM  

Trade Secret: After ten years at the same job, working too many hours, never seeing my kids and feeling like blowing my head off I quit last August. My wife and I worked it so I could have some time to decompress before I went back to work. I am happier and more adjusted. I guess I have become Mr Mom and I dig it.

I am supposed to start a new job this week; (I was head hunted, they came to me) and they may not take me on because I told them my family life, family business (wife has a restaurant) and sanity is more important than cranking out 60-70 hours a week . They didn't understand what I meant. They think it is normal to work that much and never see their families. I tried to explain to them that I spent the last 10 years making someone else rich, working from 4:30 am to 4pm and then fielding calls and emails from home and I wasn't interested in it any more,

I'll work part time for tips before I miss out on family, vacation and sleep ever again.


I think you are one of those lazy Middle-class workers the Republicans were complaining about the other day.
 
2014-03-26 12:18:35 PM  

Nutsac_Jim: shortymac: AverageAmericanGuy: A lot of the "quality of life" complaints derive from the hell that men put up with at home from their wives who complain about the men being at work all the time and never helping at home. It's as if they don't understand the concept of division of labor.

I work hard to support the family, my job is to continue increasing my pay so as to make my family comfortable. Your job as a stay-at-home wife is to take care of the daily routine of the house. Washing the dishes, dear, is your job, no matter how much you think I should do it because you're "tired" and have been "busy all day".

Housework is tough. No one said it wasn't. But so is earning a living. Everyone has a job to do. Quitcherbiatchin.

The vast majority of their wives aren't stay-at-home moms, they are working a full-time job as well.

My wife stopped working.

Ask me if she biatches all the time about having to do laundry.   Not my laundry, mind you.  I do my own, or else I would wake up Monday morning and find that my clothes are either unwashed, or worse, still in the washer.

I worked full time, 9 hours + hour commute each way.  Then to Fed 4 hours.  20 minutes home.

Say thanks?  Not once.

She did manage to biatch at me for not helping her enough with the kids.


If they want to biatch, they are going to biatch.  It doesn't matter if they have a job or not.

When she was mad, she would put the kids to bed early, so I would not get to see them before I had to go to my second job.


Sounds like you and your wife have a problem, don't take it out on the rest of the world because you're unhappy.

/Seriously, see a therapist
 
2014-03-26 12:19:25 PM  
Why do we all have to work more now as opposed to the Husband as bread winner home by 5:30 for dinner every night with family of decades past? Just look at executive pay vs avg for every company since the 1950's. Its obvious. Yet when you say things like that your a socialist and you hate America. Whatever.

My Sister and BIL live and work in Germany and they always have free time to travel or tour the countryside on bikes or whatever they choose to do. We are the suckers here folks.
 
2014-03-26 12:23:10 PM  

autopsybeverage: Farkingwhatever: I agree. It has something to do with the "get up at 6am, drive to work at 8am to get there by nine, work 'til 5 or 6pm, then get home at 6:30-8:30pm, then try to LIVE a little bit before you realize you gotta go to bed soon because you need to repeat what you just did" philosophy. No family for me, thanks.

I got up at 6, left the hotel at 7, worked until 6, then drove until I got to the next hotel at 11:30 so I can do the same thing at another business tomorrow. So at least you go home at night... mine only sees me from Thursday nights til Sunday afternoons, and then I'm usually in my home office getting reports finished and prepping for two weeks out. On the other hand, I love what I do. I'd just like more time to exercise, especially when Taco Bell is basically my kitchen five days a week.


I honestly think I would live off the land before I would do what you do. YMMV.
 
2014-03-26 12:29:47 PM  

indy_kid: The assembly line at the Ford plant in the very early days was so fast, workers would become psychotic and attack each other.  Henry Ford slowed the line and the violence quickly subsided.


The difference there is that back then you had an employer who realized when he was overworking his employees and rectified the situation for the benefit of all involved.  You don't get that so much nowadays.
 
2014-03-26 12:32:17 PM  

Nick Nostril: autopsybeverage: Farkingwhatever: I agree. It has something to do with the "get up at 6am, drive to work at 8am to get there by nine, work 'til 5 or 6pm, then get home at 6:30-8:30pm, then try to LIVE a little bit before you realize you gotta go to bed soon because you need to repeat what you just did" philosophy. No family for me, thanks.

I got up at 6, left the hotel at 7, worked until 6, then drove until I got to the next hotel at 11:30 so I can do the same thing at another business tomorrow. So at least you go home at night... mine only sees me from Thursday nights til Sunday afternoons, and then I'm usually in my home office getting reports finished and prepping for two weeks out. On the other hand, I love what I do. I'd just like more time to exercise, especially when Taco Bell is basically my kitchen five days a week.

I honestly think I would live off the land before I would do what you do. YMMV.


This.

I work a shiatload of hours but only because I use flexible scheduling so that I get to spend lots of time with my kids. We have cut back on people here and the workload is the same (if not more) but two things keep me from looking for another gig (and IT is hot in this area, unemployment for IT workers is only ~3% in the Denver metro)

1. A crap ton of money. We make above industry average for salary and on top of that get bonuses that are ~10% of salary. Plus a very good ESPP, I profited close to another 10% of my salary on that alone, also RSUs that vest every year.

2. No "schedule". We work from home once a week and pretty much come and go as we please, so long as we get the work done.

That being said it isn't uncommon for me to be logging in at 11:00 at night to finish some stuff but the kids are in bed already and I took them to practice or play at the park earlier.
 
2014-03-26 12:38:32 PM  

PunGent: Most people I know in the corporate world, of both genders, are working much harder these days than a decade ago.  Most of them were "lucky" enough to survive layoffs...so now they're doing two jobs instead of one.  They're hard working and conscientious, but it's not mathematically possible to do two...or more than two...full-time jobs at the same time...so quality inevitably suffers.

And before you say "so what", I'll just add that some of them test drugs for efficacy and purity.  Drugs for humans.  Drugs you may be putting inside yourself some day.

What could possibly go wrong?


My company tries to do stuff like that when we land a new account. Cut a few positions and the whole operation works like a engine that is misfiring. I actually had to calculate it out that they way they wanted things run in the timeframe they wanted would be impossible usnless they had another person or cut everyones lunch by 15 or 30 min.
 
2014-03-26 12:45:44 PM  

No Such Agency: So after a day at work, HE gets to kick back and put his feet up... but HER day at work keeps going?  That sounds... equitable.


I would trade places with my wife in a heartbeat - a heartbeat - if she had the education to earn the same living wage that I do.  I have told her so too.
 
2014-03-26 12:57:34 PM  

AverageAmericanGuy: Deacon Blue: Yeah, you do all that, and then some asshole hacks your account, steals what he wants, sells the rest, and deletes all your toons except for the level one blue haired gnome you rolled for the 20 man raid on Hogger.  So you get so depressed you delete the entire game.  Game over, man, game over.

I'm so sorry, I don't speak Nerd...


It's easy.  Just pretend you have an IQ in the triple digits.
 
2014-03-26 01:03:47 PM  

fortheloveofgod: No Such Agency: So after a day at work, HE gets to kick back and put his feet up... but HER day at work keeps going?  That sounds... equitable.

I would trade places with my wife in a heartbeat - a heartbeat - if she had the education to earn the same living wage that I do.  I have told her so too.


Its one of the reasons I love my hubby, if we can finagle a stay at home parent it's him that's staying home.

I think a lot of guys are going to be in for a surprise when they become stay at home parents. Housework is hell and drudgery.
 
2014-03-26 01:17:01 PM  
Yeah but productivity and therefore profits are up so who gives a fark?
 
2014-03-26 01:32:33 PM  

SuperTramp: U.S. The Only Advanced Economy That Does Not Require Employers To Provide Paid Vacation Time

[b-i.forbesimg.com image 624x445]


Good, the government shouldn't be mandating our benefit requirements.  And our GDP is greater than most those other countries put together.  So we got that going for us at least.  I'm sure that's unrelated.
 
2014-03-26 01:40:34 PM  
I was told that modern conveniences would bring me increased leisure time and prosperity.

3.bp.blogspot.com
 
2014-03-26 01:48:13 PM  

BMFPitt: Sounds like somebody has a case of the Mondays.


No, man. shiat, no. I do believe you'd get your ass kicked if you said something like that, man.
 
2014-03-26 01:53:24 PM  

shortymac: fortheloveofgod: No Such Agency: So after a day at work, HE gets to kick back and put his feet up... but HER day at work keeps going?  That sounds... equitable.

I would trade places with my wife in a heartbeat - a heartbeat - if she had the education to earn the same living wage that I do.  I have told her so too.

Its one of the reasons I love my hubby, if we can finagle a stay at home parent it's him that's staying home.

I think a lot of guys are going to be in for a surprise when they become stay at home parents. Housework is hell and drudgery.


I hated it. I don't like my job, but I like leaving the house everyday.
 
2014-03-26 01:54:37 PM  
Never wanted to kill a coworker. Supervisors on the other hand. Every farking day.
 
2014-03-26 01:57:35 PM  

groppet: PunGent: Most people I know in the corporate world, of both genders, are working much harder these days than a decade ago.  Most of them were "lucky" enough to survive layoffs...so now they're doing two jobs instead of one.  They're hard working and conscientious, but it's not mathematically possible to do two...or more than two...full-time jobs at the same time...so quality inevitably suffers.

And before you say "so what", I'll just add that some of them test drugs for efficacy and purity.  Drugs for humans.  Drugs you may be putting inside yourself some day.

What could possibly go wrong?

My company tries to do stuff like that when we land a new account. Cut a few positions and the whole operation works like a engine that is misfiring. I actually had to calculate it out that they way they wanted things run in the timeframe they wanted would be impossible usnless they had another person or cut everyones lunch by 15 or 30 min.


So, how's those 15 minute lunch breaks going?
/wait you mean you didn't start with 30 minute lunches?
 
2014-03-26 01:57:36 PM  
Can someone ask both American Farkers with jobs to comment on this.
 
2014-03-26 01:58:33 PM  

sufferpuppet: SuperTramp: U.S. The Only Advanced Economy That Does Not Require Employers To Provide Paid Vacation Time

[b-i.forbesimg.com image 624x445]

Good, the government shouldn't be mandating our benefit requirements.  And our GDP is greater than most those other countries put together.  So we got that going for us at least.  I'm sure that's unrelated.


Prosperity is more than the accumulation of material wealth, young grasshopper. It's also about the joy of everyday life.

/also, you sound like one of those libertarian nutjobs
 
2014-03-26 02:19:18 PM  

BEER_ME_in_CT: Why do we all have to work more now as opposed to the Husband as bread winner home by 5:30 for dinner every night with family of decades past? Just look at executive pay vs avg for every company since the 1950's. Its obvious. Yet when you say things like that your a socialist and you hate America. Whatever.

My Sister and BIL live and work in Germany and they always have free time to travel or tour the countryside on bikes or whatever they choose to do. We are the suckers here folks.


Not quite.  As a nation, we had a choice whether to increase quality of life or decrease working hours.  Even if not everyone made that same choice, enough people did to drag the entire country in that same direction.  So now we have nicer stuff, even if we don't have that much more free time.  Even then, despite the conventional wisdom, average weekly hours worked has dropped since 1964.   Average annual hours worked is also lower than it was in 1964 despite a spike in the 1990s.  (Caveats: I couldn't find any pre-1964 data and it seems that, for whatever reason, any FRED data on this subject was either discontinued in 2010/2011 or didn't start collecting data until 2006 or 2007).
 
2014-03-26 02:20:56 PM  

Lenny_da_Hog: Hmm. I don't see a column for "Stress" or "Quality of Life" here on the spreadsheet... And I don't see it in Oracle... It doesn't appear anywhere on the profit and loss report....

It must not be an issue.


Late to the party, but done in one.
 
2014-03-26 02:22:40 PM  

llortcM_yllort: BEER_ME_in_CT: Why do we all have to work more now as opposed to the Husband as bread winner home by 5:30 for dinner every night with family of decades past? Just look at executive pay vs avg for every company since the 1950's. Its obvious. Yet when you say things like that your a socialist and you hate America. Whatever.

My Sister and BIL live and work in Germany and they always have free time to travel or tour the countryside on bikes or whatever they choose to do. We are the suckers here folks.

Not quite.  As a nation, we had a choice whether to increase quality of life or decrease working hours.  Even if not everyone made that same choice, enough people did to drag the entire country in that same direction.  So now we have nicer stuff, even if we don't have that much more free time.  Even then, despite the conventional wisdom, average weekly hours worked has dropped since 1964.   Average annual hours worked is also lower than it was in 1964 despite a spike in the 1990s.  (Caveats: I couldn't find any pre-1964 data and it seems that, for whatever reason, any FRED data on this subject was either discontinued in 2010/2011 or didn't start collecting data until 2006 or 2007).


Actually, scratch the discontinued bit.  Average annual was discontinued but average weekly is still calculated.
 
2014-03-26 02:25:04 PM  
It's up to you to choose the job that doesn't have the mindset that you're available 24/7
It's up to you to set your terms...and don't put yourself in the position where you're asked to do more than the base.

They'll suck you dry if you allow it.

If you got a place like that...start planning your move to another.
There is more to life than work.

Work good.
Live better.

I don't mind working hard...but it needs to be within reason...and within a certain time-frame.
 
2014-03-26 02:25:39 PM  

patrick767: Beware_Me:
This is why Continental Europe has contributed nothing to human civilization in the post-war era.

Not sure if serious.
/Poe's law?


I can spend days listing off the cultural and technological achievements of America since the end of World War II.  What cultural or technological achievements can you list for France, Spain or any other Continental European country in that time period?  Off of the top of my head, the only thing that comes to mind is New Wave cinema.
 
2014-03-26 02:36:07 PM  
It helps that those countries were busy for a few decades digging out from under the rubble.
 
2014-03-26 02:43:20 PM  

Beware_Me: patrick767: Beware_Me:
This is why Continental Europe has contributed nothing to human civilization in the post-war era.

Not sure if serious.
/Poe's law?

I can spend days listing off the cultural and technological achievements of America since the end of World War II.  What cultural or technological achievements can you list for France, Spain or any other Continental European country in that time period?  Off of the top of my head, the only thing that comes to mind is New Wave cinema.


This is why Americans are globally perceived as ignorant.
 
2014-03-26 02:45:38 PM  

llortcM_yllort: BEER_ME_in_CT: Why do we all have to work more now as opposed to the Husband as bread winner home by 5:30 for dinner every night with family of decades past? Just look at executive pay vs avg for every company since the 1950's. Its obvious. Yet when you say things like that your a socialist and you hate America. Whatever.

My Sister and BIL live and work in Germany and they always have free time to travel or tour the countryside on bikes or whatever they choose to do. We are the suckers here folks.

Not quite.  As a nation, we had a choice whether to increase quality of life or decrease working hours.  Even if not everyone made that same choice, enough people did to drag the entire country in that same direction.  So now we have nicer stuff, even if we don't have that much more free time.  Even then, despite the conventional wisdom, average weekly hours worked has dropped since 1964.   Average annual hours worked is also lower than it was in 1964 despite a spike in the 1990s.  (Caveats: I couldn't find any pre-1964 data and it seems that, for whatever reason, any FRED data on this subject was either discontinued in 2010/2011 or didn't start collecting data until 2006 or 2007).


I believe those are PAID HOURS worked.

Nowadays unpaid overtime is the norm and thus isn't tracked via W2 forms, which is where the Labor department would get the data.

Sometimes its overt "work until 7 or your fired"

Sometimes its not overt, it's your blackberry buzzing all night, it's being stuck in meetings all day so you stay late to "catch up" on work, it's end of year deadlines, or it's the fear that if you say "no, I'm overloaded" you'll be fired.
 
2014-03-26 02:48:14 PM  

shortymac: llortcM_yllort: BEER_ME_in_CT: Why do we all have to work more now as opposed to the Husband as bread winner home by 5:30 for dinner every night with family of decades past? Just look at executive pay vs avg for every company since the 1950's. Its obvious. Yet when you say things like that your a socialist and you hate America. Whatever.

My Sister and BIL live and work in Germany and they always have free time to travel or tour the countryside on bikes or whatever they choose to do. We are the suckers here folks.

Not quite.  As a nation, we had a choice whether to increase quality of life or decrease working hours.  Even if not everyone made that same choice, enough people did to drag the entire country in that same direction.  So now we have nicer stuff, even if we don't have that much more free time.  Even then, despite the conventional wisdom, average weekly hours worked has dropped since 1964.   Average annual hours worked is also lower than it was in 1964 despite a spike in the 1990s.  (Caveats: I couldn't find any pre-1964 data and it seems that, for whatever reason, any FRED data on this subject was either discontinued in 2010/2011 or didn't start collecting data until 2006 or 2007).

I believe those are PAID HOURS worked.

Nowadays unpaid overtime is the norm and thus isn't tracked via W2 forms, which is where the Labor department would get the data.

Sometimes its overt "work until 7 or your fired"

Sometimes its not overt, it's your blackberry buzzing all night, it's being stuck in meetings all day so you stay late to "catch up" on work, it's end of year deadlines, or it's the fear that if you say "no, I'm overloaded" you'll be fired.


The problem with this assertion is that it is based on anecdotes and no evidence or data exists to back it up.  If this phenomenon is so prevalent, why is there no record of it?
 
2014-03-26 02:49:55 PM  

Ishidan: No, man. shiat, no. I do believe you'd get your ass kicked if you said something like that, man.


Best line in the movie.  I love that delivery.
 
2014-03-26 02:51:50 PM  

jst3p: Beware_Me: patrick767: Beware_Me:
This is why Continental Europe has contributed nothing to human civilization in the post-war era.

Not sure if serious.
/Poe's law?

I can spend days listing off the cultural and technological achievements of America since the end of World War II.  What cultural or technological achievements can you list for France, Spain or any other Continental European country in that time period?  Off of the top of my head, the only thing that comes to mind is New Wave cinema.

This is why Americans are globally perceived as ignorant.


Do you have insults or do you have examples?
 
2014-03-26 02:54:03 PM  

llortcM_yllort: BEER_ME_in_CT: Why do we all have to work more now as opposed to the Husband as bread winner home by 5:30 for dinner every night with family of decades past? Just look at executive pay vs avg for every company since the 1950's. Its obvious. Yet when you say things like that your a socialist and you hate America. Whatever.

My Sister and BIL live and work in Germany and they always have free time to travel or tour the countryside on bikes or whatever they choose to do. We are the suckers here folks.

Not quite.  As a nation, we had a choice whether to increase quality of life or decrease working hours.  Even if not everyone made that same choice, enough people did to drag the entire country in that same direction.  So now we have nicer stuff, even if we don't have that much more free time.  Even then, despite the conventional wisdom, average weekly hours worked has dropped since 1964.   Average annual hours worked is also lower than it was in 1964 despite a spike in the 1990s.  (Caveats: I couldn't find any pre-1964 data and it seems that, for whatever reason, any FRED data on this subject was either discontinued in 2010/2011 or didn't start collecting data until 2006 or 2007).


That graph doesnt seem possible unless Avg weekly hours it being skewed downward by unemployment or some other variable. I think you could find a chart for anything, but there is no chance that FULL TIME employees are working FEWER hours than in 1964. Not even close. I would wager that second household earners working part time jobs or semi-employed people are really driving that number down as well. I will concede that our national obsession with consumerism added to this mess we're in, but that is NO EXCUSE for employees getting nickel and dimed so an ever-growing group of the "executive elite" can be paid FAR MORE than they're worth.
 
2014-03-26 03:17:41 PM  

AMonkey'sUncle: AlwaysRightBoy: I work with so many 20-year-olds in NYC that I want to kill KILL KILL!

/maybe a little more of kill.. KILL KILL KILLL.... seriously how did they ever make it through college.. It amazes me? Half of these kids that are sent to me and I have to hire don't know what a shoelase is no lest the jist of what ad work is like..
/old guy in the ad bis... kill KILL KILL KILL Wahhhhhhhhhhhhh

There's some serious irony in this.


Glad I'm not the only one who saw that and chuckled.
 
2014-03-26 03:22:54 PM  

Pichu0102: Is there any hope for the future of anyone not born into wealth, or lucky enough to pull off a multi million dollar company? Is the average person always just going to be miserable until the day they die?



lolWut?

I was raised by a poor single mother. I don't own a multi million dollar company. But I am doing fine, feelin fine, and having plenty of fun. I have a "normal" 8-5 job and that's all.

Maybe it's just your attitude.
 
2014-03-26 03:24:17 PM  

AverageAmericanGuy: A lot of the "quality of life" complaints derive from the hell that men put up with at home from their wives who complain about the men being at work all the time and never helping at home. It's as if they don't understand the concept of division of labor.

I work hard to support the family, my job is to continue increasing my pay so as to make my family comfortable. Your job as a stay-at-home wife is to take care of the daily routine of the house. Washing the dishes, dear, is your job, no matter how much you think I should do it because you're "tired" and have been "busy all day".

Housework is tough. No one said it wasn't. But so is earning a living. Everyone has a job to do. Quitcherbiatchin.


Must be nice to be able to afford having one person stay at home. Back in the land of reality, though, that wasn't even what TFA was talking about, but thanks for that window into your world.
 
2014-03-26 03:30:25 PM  

Ishidan: groppet: PunGent: Most people I know in the corporate world, of both genders, are working much harder these days than a decade ago.  Most of them were "lucky" enough to survive layoffs...so now they're doing two jobs instead of one.  They're hard working and conscientious, but it's not mathematically possible to do two...or more than two...full-time jobs at the same time...so quality inevitably suffers.

And before you say "so what", I'll just add that some of them test drugs for efficacy and purity.  Drugs for humans.  Drugs you may be putting inside yourself some day.

What could possibly go wrong?

My company tries to do stuff like that when we land a new account. Cut a few positions and the whole operation works like a engine that is misfiring. I actually had to calculate it out that they way they wanted things run in the timeframe they wanted would be impossible usnless they had another person or cut everyones lunch by 15 or 30 min.

So, how's those 15 minute lunch breaks going?
/wait you mean you didn't start with 30 minute lunches?


They ended up giving us the extra person. I think when the realized that it was impossible for a person to be in two places at once. But the lunch thing is funny jsut yesterday the company annouced that we had to take a mandatory 90 min break. Meaning for the hourly people they would have to come in a half hour early or stay a half hour late to get their 40 hours. They cancelled it today due to feedback "some good some bad" as the email said hahaha. Everyone is still prepping their resumes.
 
2014-03-26 03:33:01 PM  
sendtodave
Right-to-work provisions (either by law or by constitutional provision) exist in 24 U.S. states.

Before the 1930s, union organizing was often explicitly outlawed as "criminal syndicalism" and workers were often beaten and killed in addition to facing blacklisting. And yet we still managed to win a wide variety of gains, and win several major strikes in the early 1930s before the New Deal. Anti-union laws are irrelevant if you're organized, because one thing always holds true: We don't need the bosses, but the bosses need us, and it's workers who have the power because workers can unilaterally bring production grinding to a halt. Organize, because they can't fire all of us, and if they fire one person for being part of the union then everybody walks.  You don't need NLRB recognition or even a contract to have an effective union, and the widespread belief that you do is probably the greatest impediment to organizing today.
 
2014-03-26 03:37:51 PM  
"Quality of life" as defined by others seems to be the biggest problem here. The only problem you have as a worker who is being "forced" to work 50-60 hours a week is that you do it. You do it because you are scared of losing that job that makes you miserable. Anyone else see the problem here? My boss told me in my interview that he expects 55-60 hours a week of salaried employees. I smiled, nodded, and thought to myself, "yeah, good luck with that." I usually work 8.5 hours a day, and my commute is 17 minutes. No, I'm not lucky. I made that happen because my life outside of work is important to me. I chose where I wanted to buy a house, and I got a job at a place that isn't two farking hours away. Am I making 10 grand less a year than if I drove into the city? You bet. Is it worth it x100? You're goddamn right it is. By the way, I've been here 8 years, and the only time we talk about me working more hours is when there's an important deadline, and I agree to give him the extra-time for a set period of time.

You see, I understand that it's his job to use peoples fears to force them to work 60 hours a week, but that I know he knows it's not worth firing someone who doesn't play the game. So, stop farking letting your quality of life be lowered and stop expecting your company to do it for you. I promise, you probably won't get fired, and if you do, you're better off.
 
2014-03-26 03:50:47 PM  

llortcM_yllort: shortymac: llortcM_yllort: BEER_ME_in_CT: Why do we all have to work more now as opposed to the Husband as bread winner home by 5:30 for dinner every night with family of decades past? Just look at executive pay vs avg for every company since the 1950's. Its obvious. Yet when you say things like that your a socialist and you hate America. Whatever.

My Sister and BIL live and work in Germany and they always have free time to travel or tour the countryside on bikes or whatever they choose to do. We are the suckers here folks.

Not quite.  As a nation, we had a choice whether to increase quality of life or decrease working hours.  Even if not everyone made that same choice, enough people did to drag the entire country in that same direction.  So now we have nicer stuff, even if we don't have that much more free time.  Even then, despite the conventional wisdom, average weekly hours worked has dropped since 1964.   Average annual hours worked is also lower than it was in 1964 despite a spike in the 1990s.  (Caveats: I couldn't find any pre-1964 data and it seems that, for whatever reason, any FRED data on this subject was either discontinued in 2010/2011 or didn't start collecting data until 2006 or 2007).

I believe those are PAID HOURS worked.

Nowadays unpaid overtime is the norm and thus isn't tracked via W2 forms, which is where the Labor department would get the data.

Sometimes its overt "work until 7 or your fired"

Sometimes its not overt, it's your blackberry buzzing all night, it's being stuck in meetings all day so you stay late to "catch up" on work, it's end of year deadlines, or it's the fear that if you say "no, I'm overloaded" you'll be fired.

The problem with this assertion is that it is based on anecdotes and no evidence or data exists to back it up.  If this phenomenon is so prevalent, why is there no record of it?


The only way you can is surveying a significant portion of the population.

Unpaid hours aren't going to be recorded on a company's books or tax forms.

/awesome username BTW
 
2014-03-26 03:53:22 PM  

SuperTramp: sufferpuppet: SuperTramp: U.S. The Only Advanced Economy That Does Not Require Employers To Provide Paid Vacation Time

[b-i.forbesimg.com image 624x445]

Good, the government shouldn't be mandating our benefit requirements.  And our GDP is greater than most those other countries put together.  So we got that going for us at least.  I'm sure that's unrelated.

Prosperity is more than the accumulation of material wealth, young grasshopper. It's also about the joy of everyday life.

/also, you sound like one of those libertarian nutjobs


Nutjob sure.  But libertarian?  Them's fighting words!
 
2014-03-26 03:58:12 PM  

Stangfreek: "Quality of life" as defined by others seems to be the biggest problem here. The only problem you have as a worker who is being "forced" to work 50-60 hours a week is that you do it. You do it because you are scared of losing that job that makes you miserable. Anyone else see the problem here? My boss told me in my interview that he expects 55-60 hours a week of salaried employees. I smiled, nodded, and thought to myself, "yeah, good luck with that." I usually work 8.5 hours a day, and my commute is 17 minutes. No, I'm not lucky. I made that happen because my life outside of work is important to me. I chose where I wanted to buy a house, and I got a job at a place that isn't two farking hours away. Am I making 10 grand less a year than if I drove into the city? You bet. Is it worth it x100? You're goddamn right it is. By the way, I've been here 8 years, and the only time we talk about me working more hours is when there's an important deadline, and I agree to give him the extra-time for a set period of time.

You see, I understand that it's his job to use peoples fears to force them to work 60 hours a week, but that I know he knows it's not worth firing someone who doesn't play the game. So, stop farking letting your quality of life be lowered and stop expecting your company to do it for you. I promise, you probably won't get fired, and if you do, you're better off.


It's basically what I'm doing now, I had to switch jobs to do it but I stick to my guns.

This new job I did a good 3 weeks of working late during year-end, but then I went to my boss and let her know that this wouldn't continue. I'm not going through that again.

As soon as you start doing it, people expect you to do it constantly, you have to nip it in the bud.
 
2014-03-26 04:00:51 PM  

Beware_Me: jst3p: Beware_Me: patrick767: Beware_Me:
This is why Continental Europe has contributed nothing to human civilization in the post-war era.

Not sure if serious.
/Poe's law?

I can spend days listing off the cultural and technological achievements of America since the end of World War II.  What cultural or technological achievements can you list for France, Spain or any other Continental European country in that time period?  Off of the top of my head, the only thing that comes to mind is New Wave cinema.

This is why Americans are globally perceived as ignorant.

Do you have insults or do you have examples?


The French invented the bikini... What more do you need??
 
2014-03-26 04:11:13 PM  

SuperTramp: U.S. The Only Advanced Economy That Does Not Require Employers To Provide Paid Vacation Time

[b-i.forbesimg.com image 624x445]


So much THIS.

Now where is that old commercial from Universal Studios, the one with the CEO talking about "your time is our money".
 
2014-03-26 04:39:08 PM  

Ishidan: doglover: RanDomino: [www.iww.org image 299x342]

You laugh, but with modern technology 4 hours a day accomplishes a shiat ton more than 8 or 12 used to. There's no John Henry that can out-harvest a combine.

or out-drill a jackhammer, but we get your idea.
/let it whop, let it whop, let it whop that steel on down


Smothers Brothers!  +1 internets!
 
2014-03-26 05:00:01 PM  
So the dream in which you're dying is the best you've ever had?
 
2014-03-26 05:42:07 PM  

stewbert: I hated it. I don't like my job, but I like leaving the house everyday.


So? Leave. Get a hobby. Join a club. Sit in a sidewalk cafe for 5 hours a day. You'll have the time, trust me.

Be a stay at home parent and you get a shiatload of hours to do what ever the fark you want. Chores really don't take as much time as a full time job. You'll just have to let go of the idea that amusement happens in the evening and work happens during the day. Hell, most of the chores are done next to the full-time job by single people all over the world. It isn't as if those things suddenly take 36 extra hours a week once 3 other people start living in the same house.
 
2014-03-26 05:43:32 PM  
I actually get a bit annoyed at the "government-mandated days off/holidays" graph. I get it, we're behind the curve, we don't have any federally-mandated holidays. But in the world of full-time employment - and I'm talking full-time, 40-hour-a-week careers - does that situation actually bear out that often?

And again, I'm cherry-picking to an extent because I'm excluding part-time jobs and independent-contractor gigs. But I'm guessing most of us who have a full-time job have earned a week of vacation pay, or two, or more, or get some kind of earned-time benefit. And we've probably got some paid holidays as well.

Are there really that many people working a full-time job (i.e. not an independent contractor/consultant, not per diem) that don't earn any vacation time or holiday pay? I'd think it would be a huge disadvantage not to offer that as part of the benefits package.
 
2014-03-26 05:49:59 PM  

HotIgneous Intruder: So the dream in which you're dying is the best you've ever had?


No, the dream in which you're dying is the best I've ever had.
 
2014-03-26 06:04:17 PM  

WienerButt: I'm 27 so I'm in the beginning stages of the life we all dread. I work for a good company that is actually Canadian and while we don't have Family Day every month like they do they are pretty generous with other benefits.

I took my first trip to Europe a few weeks ago and I was shocked to see so many young people say fark it and just move to an entirely new country and see what they could do to live. The Europeans we met didn't understand why we couldn't extend our vacation and tag along with them to whatever city they were off to next. They all asked if it was true that we worked a ton of hours and only got two weeks off. It was interesting and depressing at the same time.


24 and also work for a Canadian company that is pretty generous with the benefits. That connection hadn't occurred to me before, though.
 
2014-03-26 06:08:42 PM  
Client: "I am working Thursday and Friday and then on vacation for a week."
Me: "I am working every waking moment until the end of May."

Thank god for 1.5x overtime.  The cords of my sanity are fraying.
 
2014-03-26 07:36:27 PM  

pwn3d781: I actually get a bit annoyed at the "government-mandated days off/holidays" graph. I get it, we're behind the curve, we don't have any federally-mandated holidays. But in the world of full-time employment - and I'm talking full-time, 40-hour-a-week careers - does that situation actually bear out that often?

And again, I'm cherry-picking to an extent because I'm excluding part-time jobs and independent-contractor gigs. But I'm guessing most of us who have a full-time job have earned a week of vacation pay, or two, or more, or get some kind of earned-time benefit. And we've probably got some paid holidays as well.

Are there really that many people working a full-time job (i.e. not an independent contractor/consultant, not per diem) that don't earn any vacation time or holiday pay? I'd think it would be a huge disadvantage not to offer that as part of the benefits package.


*raises tired little paw*

More common than anyone wants to admit, probably...

Poll time!  Anyone else?
 
2014-03-26 07:41:26 PM  

Ace's Pretty Pirate Kitty: pwn3d781: I actually get a bit annoyed at the "government-mandated days off/holidays" graph. I get it, we're behind the curve, we don't have any federally-mandated holidays. But in the world of full-time employment - and I'm talking full-time, 40-hour-a-week careers - does that situation actually bear out that often?

And again, I'm cherry-picking to an extent because I'm excluding part-time jobs and independent-contractor gigs. But I'm guessing most of us who have a full-time job have earned a week of vacation pay, or two, or more, or get some kind of earned-time benefit. And we've probably got some paid holidays as well.

Are there really that many people working a full-time job (i.e. not an independent contractor/consultant, not per diem) that don't earn any vacation time or holiday pay? I'd think it would be a huge disadvantage not to offer that as part of the benefits package.

*raises tired little paw*

More common than anyone wants to admit, probably...

Poll time!  Anyone else?


My question is: why? Is that the only work in your field available in the area? I have never worked for a company as a full-time employee that doesn't give paid time off accrual, or have paid holidays. Now, if you're in a start-up and that's not happening, I might be able to understand, assuming you have a stake in the company, and receive financial compensation directly related to company revenue. If not, go get another job, the company you work for is a douche.
 
2014-03-26 08:00:43 PM  

Lenny_da_Hog: And I don't see it in Oracle.


Working for a company who is currently in the progress of implimenting this system, I'm getting a kick, etc.
 
2014-03-26 08:26:54 PM  

Mr. Coffee Nerves: I used to work for a sociopath who truly did believe someone having a family life was stealing from the company. He was big on conference calls at noon on mandated holidays, and he took precisely one week a year off (at the insistence of his wife) but every day of that week he had to have a morning and afternoon conference call and he stayed on email nonstop. He transferred an administrative assistant who had the temerity to take a full week off when her husband died.

You'll be happy to hear that he's in jail now for massive embezzlement and fraud. Apparently that wife was spending every penny she could while he was living his job


You now understand why a mandated vacation is often an audit requirement.
 
2014-03-26 10:22:48 PM  

Stangfreek: Ace's Pretty Pirate Kitty: pwn3d781: I actually get a bit annoyed at the "government-mandated days off/holidays" graph. I get it, we're behind the curve, we don't have any federally-mandated holidays. But in the world of full-time employment - and I'm talking full-time, 40-hour-a-week careers - does that situation actually bear out that often?

And again, I'm cherry-picking to an extent because I'm excluding part-time jobs and independent-contractor gigs. But I'm guessing most of us who have a full-time job have earned a week of vacation pay, or two, or more, or get some kind of earned-time benefit. And we've probably got some paid holidays as well.

Are there really that many people working a full-time job (i.e. not an independent contractor/consultant, not per diem) that don't earn any vacation time or holiday pay? I'd think it would be a huge disadvantage not to offer that as part of the benefits package.

*raises tired little paw*

More common than anyone wants to admit, probably...

Poll time!  Anyone else?

My question is: why? Is that the only work in your field available in the area? I have never worked for a company as a full-time employee that doesn't give paid time off accrual, or have paid holidays. Now, if you're in a start-up and that's not happening, I might be able to understand, assuming you have a stake in the company, and receive financial compensation directly related to company revenue. If not, go get another job, the company you work for is a douche.


Because there is no law preventing them!

There are some people who need rules to perform to a basic human level, it's why we have laws against murder and child pr0n.

A decent human being doesn't murder or use child pr0n, but that doesn't stop people.
 
2014-03-27 12:21:39 AM  
So, since we all seem to be in general agreement, Farkers, don't you think it's time for genuine industrial democracy?
 
2014-03-27 05:53:59 AM  

Another Government Employee: Mr. Coffee Nerves: I used to work for a sociopath who truly did believe someone having a family life was stealing from the company. He was big on conference calls at noon on mandated holidays, and he took precisely one week a year off (at the insistence of his wife) but every day of that week he had to have a morning and afternoon conference call and he stayed on email nonstop. He transferred an administrative assistant who had the temerity to take a full week off when her husband died.

You'll be happy to hear that he's in jail now for massive embezzlement and fraud. Apparently that wife was spending every penny she could while he was living his job

You now understand why a mandated vacation is often an audit requirement.


Yep. I get three weeks of paid vacation a year, and am required by policy to take at least two of those continuously.
 
2014-03-27 07:05:44 AM  

autopsybeverage: Farkingwhatever: I agree. It has something to do with the "get up at 6am, drive to work at 8am to get there by nine, work 'til 5 or 6pm, then get home at 6:30-8:30pm, then try to LIVE a little bit before you realize you gotta go to bed soon because you need to repeat what you just did" philosophy. No family for me, thanks.

I got up at 6, left the hotel at 7, worked until 6, then drove until I got to the next hotel at 11:30 so I can do the same thing at another business tomorrow. So at least you go home at night... mine only sees me from Thursday nights til Sunday afternoons, and then I'm usually in my home office getting reports finished and prepping for two weeks out. On the other hand, I love what I do. I'd just like more time to exercise, especially when Taco Bell is basically my kitchen five days a week.


I hear ya,  I unintentionally exaggerated in my previous post. I actually would like to start a family, despite my previous post.... I just need to find a great woman!
 
2014-03-27 09:22:12 AM  

cherryl taggart: If my coworkers would simply do the job assigned, when assigned, we might actually not be stressed all the freaking time.  Instead, it's let's have another meeting to discuss the project, another meeting to brainstorm how we can recruit volunteers to do the work and give us credit, table the discussion until after a couple of days pass, see deadline as a mere suggestion, have a few more meetings to discuss how awful all the rough sketches are, realize deadline is now imminent, stress out and accept any rough draft as final, complain bitterly over rejection by consumers, nit-pick the carcass, move on to next project.  Lather, rinse, repeat until downsizing occurs, when all the newest hires are fired, and the fossils continue to do business from the good old days of the 1960's, while complaining about getting no appreciation from the industry for being an example of a zombie, living off past glories.


Do we work at the same place?
 
2014-03-27 10:55:56 AM  

BoothbyTCD: cherryl taggart: If my coworkers would simply do the job assigned, when assigned, we might actually not be stressed all the freaking time.  Instead, it's let's have another meeting to discuss the project, another meeting to brainstorm how we can recruit volunteers to do the work and give us credit, table the discussion until after a couple of days pass, see deadline as a mere suggestion, have a few more meetings to discuss how awful all the rough sketches are, realize deadline is now imminent, stress out and accept any rough draft as final, complain bitterly over rejection by consumers, nit-pick the carcass, move on to next project.  Lather, rinse, repeat until downsizing occurs, when all the newest hires are fired, and the fossils continue to do business from the good old days of the 1960's, while complaining about getting no appreciation from the industry for being an example of a zombie, living off past glories.

Do we work at the same place?


It's every single workplace ever.

I was recently leading an RFP to by a training and talent management system, to track mandatory training and employee licenses, degrees, etc. (We're a College so keep our teachers current on their licenses is important)

So after watching a bunch of demos, I made a nice spreadsheet that would auto-calculate and weigh our scores based on our requirements. I made the scoring simple: meets requirement - full points, only "okay" - half points, and no - 0 points.

I get a call from the director complaining they can't figure out, I go to help them and THEY PRINTED OUT THE SPREADSHEET AND SCORING BY HAND.

All they had to due was type in 1 of 3 numbers into a single column, that's it, I did all the formula programming. I had explained this before every demo on screen.

I ended up telling them to give their paper copy to their secretary and had her fill it in.

Everyone here complains about how everything is paper and e-mail based, but what do they do? Go right to the paper copies because computers are scary.
 
2014-03-27 11:30:11 AM  

whidbey: So, since we all seem to be in general agreement, Farkers, don't you think it's time for genuine industrial democracy?

I'm so glad to see you've finally come around
 
2014-03-27 01:51:37 PM  

DerAppie: stewbert: I hated it. I don't like my job, but I like leaving the house everyday.

So? Leave. Get a hobby. Join a club. Sit in a sidewalk cafe for 5 hours a day. You'll have the time, trust me.

Be a stay at home parent and you get a shiatload of hours to do what ever the fark you want. Chores really don't take as much time as a full time job. You'll just have to let go of the idea that amusement happens in the evening and work happens during the day. Hell, most of the chores are done next to the full-time job by single people all over the world. It isn't as if those things suddenly take 36 extra hours a week once 3 other people start living in the same house.


I just got a job instead. Works pretty good for us.
 
Displayed 183 of 183 comments

View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


This thread is closed to new comments.

Continue Farking
Submit a Link »






Report