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(The Atlantic)   Stressed out at work? Overwhelmed, totally exhausted and wanting to kill your co-workers? Yep, you're an American worker   (theatlantic.com) divider line 183
    More: Obvious, great house, maternity leave, Sheryl Sandberg, General Social Survey, write a piece  
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6714 clicks; posted to Main » on 26 Mar 2014 at 1:45 AM (17 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-03-26 04:59:16 AM

SuperTramp: U.S. The Only Advanced Economy That Does Not Require Employers To Provide Paid Vacation Time

[b-i.forbesimg.com image 624x445]


Well I mean, think about it. All that money being diverted from the shareholders. Paying vacation time could have an adverse effect. It might devalue stock. Bad idea. Best to keep it voluntary. That way struggling corporations can keep their holdings in the US.
 
2014-03-26 05:05:14 AM

Gyrfalcon: You have to have your priorities, and decide what you can live without, is all. And what you want to have.

My sister has five kids, a full-time job, a dog, and a mostly worthless husband (he works, and that's about it). The kids all have various sports activities, homework, piles of clothes, and demands on her attention. She tried for a while; but now she takes time to sleep, eat, and read by not cleaning the house every day, or cooking dinner every night. The kids get take-out or pizza or chicken nuggets for dinner.

If people don't like it (it drives my mom crazy), well, too bad. She's busy and wants to have fun with her kids now and to live to see all her grandkids someday, so something has to give, and since my BIL won't do his share of the chores, it's live in a messy house and don't cook for five finicky kids all the time. And she's a lot less stressed than many of these women with fewer kids who are trying to live the perfect suburban dream.

You just CAN'T have it all, ladies and gentlemen. Sorry.


And if she could read the instructions on a box of condoms, she wouldn't have all of these problems.
 
2014-03-26 05:07:10 AM

Deacon Blue: Yeah, you do all that, and then some asshole hacks your account, steals what he wants, sells the rest, and deletes all your toons except for the level one blue haired gnome you rolled for the 20 man raid on Hogger.  So you get so depressed you delete the entire game.  Game over, man, game over.


I'm so sorry, I don't speak Nerd...
 
2014-03-26 05:16:43 AM

whidbey: SuperTramp: U.S. The Only Advanced Economy That Does Not Require Employers To Provide Paid Vacation Time

[b-i.forbesimg.com image 624x445]

Well I mean, think about it. All that money being diverted from the shareholders. Paying vacation time could have an adverse effect. It might devalue stock. Bad idea. Best to keep it voluntary. That way struggling corporations can keep their holdings in the US.


yep, and of course, paid vacations would move the U.S. toward the dreaded soshulizms.
 
2014-03-26 06:07:39 AM

Shadowe: Because American culture isn't anti-welfare, that's a common misunderstanding. American culture is Pro-Suffering.


I kind of always described it as U.S. style economics is the most efficient mechanism for converting resources into misery.
 
2014-03-26 06:12:14 AM
If my coworkers would simply do the job assigned, when assigned, we might actually not be stressed all the freaking time.  Instead, it's let's have another meeting to discuss the project, another meeting to brainstorm how we can recruit volunteers to do the work and give us credit, table the discussion until after a couple of days pass, see deadline as a mere suggestion, have a few more meetings to discuss how awful all the rough sketches are, realize deadline is now imminent, stress out and accept any rough draft as final, complain bitterly over rejection by consumers, nit-pick the carcass, move on to next project.  Lather, rinse, repeat until downsizing occurs, when all the newest hires are fired, and the fossils continue to do business from the good old days of the 1960's, while complaining about getting no appreciation from the industry for being an example of a zombie, living off past glories.
 
2014-03-26 06:19:57 AM
The last three weeks:

*I've AVERAGED 67 hours a week
*Worked in every section of my plant (there's 5) in a desperate attempt to keep overpromised production flowing from an undermanned plant
*Made an emergency trip (950 miles round trip in 24 hrs, blowing out my first full weekend in three weeks) to save a customer when one of our other plants couldn't understand simple English
*Pulled firewatch duty (12 hrs) because one of the min wagers we hired to simply sit and make sure the building wasn't burning would leave the freaking plant after a couple hours, go home and go to sleep, then come back just before everybody would show up
*And this morning will be hauled on the carpet to explain why things aren't going smoothly

But no, I'm not stressed.
 
2014-03-26 06:25:34 AM

AlwaysRightBoy: I work with so many 20-year-olds in NYC that I want to kill KILL KILL!

/maybe a little more of kill.. KILL KILL KILLL.... seriously how did they ever make it through college.. It amazes me? Half of these kids that are sent to me and I have to hire don't know what a shoelase is no lest the jist of what ad work is like..
/old guy in the ad bis... kill KILL KILL KILL Wahhhhhhhhhhhhh


There's some serious irony in this.
 
2014-03-26 06:30:14 AM

cherryl taggart: If my coworkers would simply do the job assigned, when assigned, we might actually not be stressed all the freaking time.  Instead, it's let's have another meeting to discuss the project, another meeting to brainstorm how we can recruit volunteers to do the work and give us credit, table the discussion until after a couple of days pass, see deadline as a mere suggestion, have a few more meetings to discuss how awful all the rough sketches are, realize deadline is now imminent, stress out and accept any rough draft as final, complain bitterly over rejection by consumers, nit-pick the carcass, move on to next project.  Lather, rinse, repeat until downsizing occurs, when all the newest hires are fired, and the fossils continue to do business from the good old days of the 1960's, while complaining about getting no appreciation from the industry for being an example of a zombie, living off past glories.


Wow. I heard it was bad at Microsoft, but wow.
 
2014-03-26 06:38:37 AM

AverageAmericanGuy: A lot of the "quality of life" complaints derive from the hell that men put up with at home from their wives who complain about the men being at work all the time and never helping at home. It's as if they don't understand the concept of division of labor.

I work hard to support the family, my job is to continue increasing my pay so as to make my family comfortable. Your job as a stay-at-home wife is to take care of the daily routine of the house. Washing the dishes, dear, is your job, no matter how much you think I should do it because you're "tired" and have been "busy all day".

Housework is tough. No one said it wasn't. But so is earning a living. Everyone has a job to do. Quitcherbiatchin.


So after a day at work, HE gets to kick back and put his feet up... but HER day at work keeps going?  That sounds... equitable.
 
2014-03-26 06:47:03 AM

SuperTramp: U.S. The Only Advanced Economy That Does Not Require Employers To Provide Paid Vacation Time


I think this is a big part of our stress.

Unrealistic cultural expectations about our need for down time.not crash in front of the tv, exhausted. But actual time to regenerate energy and do creative things.

I enjoyed the article.i definitely relate.
 
2014-03-26 07:04:45 AM
I've got more on my plate than a spinster at a wedding.
 
2014-03-26 07:13:53 AM
I like work.  I work with Software development or engineers.  Except for petty BS from marketing, sales, accounting and HR, I work in a good industry.
I have what I consider a high quality of life.  It took some maturity to see how good I have had it, but once I was able to see that I really don't have major problems other than debt, I realized my life is much better than I thought it was in my 20's.
 
2014-03-26 07:24:03 AM
This is definitely a bookmark for later.
 
2014-03-26 07:33:08 AM
"the OECD sliced GDP per hours worked to get an hourly productivity rate, and for several of the years studied, the U.S. falls several rungs below other countries with more rational work-life policies, such as France."

Nurr!  NURRR!!!!  SOeshializms!  Surendurrs!  Eat cheese! NUUURRRR!!!
 
2014-03-26 07:38:43 AM
After ten years at the same job, working too many hours, never seeing my kids and feeling like blowing my head off I quit last August. My wife and I worked it so I could have some time to decompress before I went back to work. I am happier and more adjusted. I guess I have become Mr Mom and I dig it.

I am supposed to start a new job this week; (I was head hunted, they came to me) and they may not take me on because I told them my family life, family business (wife has a restaurant) and sanity is more important than cranking out 60-70 hours a week . They didn't understand what I meant. They think it is normal to work that much and never see their families. I tried to explain to them that I spent the last 10 years making someone else rich, working from 4:30 am to 4pm and then fielding calls and emails from home and I wasn't interested in it any more,

I'll work part time for tips before I miss out on family, vacation and sleep ever again.
 
2014-03-26 07:41:38 AM
Guh, read the article and I will say that subby's headline was more interesting.  Basically it's a pitch for a book written by a woman who wanted to work and have a family and got pissed because she had nervous breakdowns from the stress of not being able to have it all and people called her out on her bullshiat.  Granted, there are some interesting points to be made here.  Men and women are so overworked they're just not having families anymore (the ones that are breeding are more likely to breed first and desperately seek work later), and it's frankly unfeasible to raise a kid on a single income these days.  Our society's priorities are warped, sure.  But these are family problems, not just your problems, biatch.  Instead of making what would've been a compelling book (albeit one written before) about America's "pro-suffering" culture, it's all about her.

Hey lady, we can agree that you staying up late folding laundry while your husband sleeps soundly is a problem.  What it isn't is some goddamn reflection of a total failure of society.  Sit the guy down, have a talk about splitting chores and leave the rest of us out of it you whiny kunt.
 
2014-03-26 07:57:32 AM

whidbey: The problem is this paradigm is not sustainable.


Nobody has made a better case for socialism than the way capitalists have done.
 
2014-03-26 08:01:38 AM

indy_kid: The assembly line at the Ford plant in the very early days was so fast, workers would become psychotic and attack each other.  Henry Ford slowed the line and the violence quickly subsided.

IMHO, all the gains of TR's Progressive Republicans and the various unions over the years have essentially been eliminated.  Now we're seeing the elimination of basic civil rights with the number of insane SCOTUS rulings, shiat like that AZ law and the Hobby Lobby nonsense.

Give it another decade and we'll envy the Chinese for their civil and worker's rights!


Your comment about  Ford assembly line violence was fascinating. Makes eminent sense as well.

Could this be behind the suicides at Foxcomm? The violence turns inwards.

How anyone can work on an assembly line and not go nuts - that's the miracle.
 
2014-03-26 08:02:40 AM
Sounds like somebody has a case of the Mondays.
 
2014-03-26 08:21:50 AM
Just get rid of all exemptions to overtime, make any overtime above 100 hours per year voluntary, meaning once you get to 100 hours, if you want to go home and not work overtime if you have other plans, you can do so. Also at least 3 weeks paid vacation for everyone. And at least 9 months leave for each parent after the birth of a child.
 
2014-03-26 08:23:04 AM
Quit complaining! We're lucky to have jobs, and piss on our heads to keep us warm.
 
2014-03-26 08:24:06 AM

AverageAmericanGuy: A lot of the "quality of life" complaints derive from the hell that men put up with at home from their wives who complain about the men being at work all the time and never helping at home. It's as if they don't understand the concept of division of labor.

I work hard to support the family, my job is to continue increasing my pay so as to make my family comfortable. Your job as a stay-at-home wife is to take care of the daily routine of the house. Washing the dishes, dear, is your job, no matter how much you think I should do it because you're "tired" and have been "busy all day".

Housework is tough. No one said it wasn't. But so is earning a living. Everyone has a job to do. Quitcherbiatchin.


What the shiat?

Did I wake up in the 1960s?

...

Don Draper?
 
2014-03-26 08:27:37 AM

Shadowe: Why? Because American culture isn't anti-welfare, that's a common misunderstanding. American culture is Pro-Suffering. That's why for all the talk about family values we offer fark all in the way of actually giving people time off so they can actually be with their family.


Holy crap that makes perfect sense.  Parents constantly telling the kids how hard they had it.  The "greatest generation" so named because they dealt with the depression and a world war.  Rooting for the underdog being a cultural requirement.  Politicians and contest winners needing to have a sob story before they are considered for talent or ability (see American Idol).

I still maintain that all American culture is rooted in travel, but good call on that insight.
 
2014-03-26 08:29:09 AM

doglover: AverageAmericanGuy: doglover: RanDomino: [www.iww.org image 299x342]

You laugh, but with modern technology 4 hours a day accomplishes a shiat ton more than 8 or 12 used to. There's no John Henry that can out-harvest a combine.

He's not laughing. He's a true believer.

So am I. Romans lived the farkin' life through slavery. That's immoral and wrong. However, now we have machines and robots. Slaves that have no ability to be free nor sentience to appreciate freedom even were it granted. Constructs, devoid of all but the purpose to which they're set.

We could all live like the richer castes of Roman society with a few simple changes to our societal philosophy. Let the machines do the crap work and focus on self actualization. Make money into a thing that is only used for recreation and ornamentation. The basics, like food and water and shelter, can easily be free with minimum human labor.

In my ideal world, we'd all be guaranteed a life like in a free to play MMORPG. Tunic, hut, basic medical, hygine and all the nutraloaf you can eat. That's farkin' it. Pretty good for a homeless dude. Pretty shiat for anyone else. So, what we would do next is make all things like cooking, textiles, the arts, basically all the same shiat we do now, extra. That would cost money. You want decent food? Cough up some coins? Want coins? Offer up some value to another person. Carve a nice walking stick, sell it to a man who needs one, buy yourself a burger. You've earned it.

It would be hard at first, but ideally we'd have a hybrid of capitalism and communism. An actual working society where we work a bit for others and a lot for our own pet projects. Minimize this idea that you have to do drudgery, because you really don't.


Where do I sign up to elect you Emperor of the World?
 
2014-03-26 08:32:18 AM

doglover: AverageAmericanGuy: doglover: RanDomino: [www.iww.org image 299x342]

You laugh, but with modern technology 4 hours a day accomplishes a shiat ton more than 8 or 12 used to. There's no John Henry that can out-harvest a combine.

He's not laughing. He's a true believer.

So am I. Romans lived the farkin' life through slavery. That's immoral and wrong. However, now we have machines and robots. Slaves that have no ability to be free nor sentience to appreciate freedom even were it granted. Constructs, devoid of all but the purpose to which they're set.

We could all live like the richer castes of Roman society with a few simple changes to our societal philosophy. Let the machines do the crap work and focus on self actualization. Make money into a thing that is only used for recreation and ornamentation. The basics, like food and water and shelter, can easily be free with minimum human labor.

In my ideal world, we'd all be guaranteed a life like in a free to play MMORPG. Tunic, hut, basic medical, hygine and all the nutraloaf you can eat. That's farkin' it. Pretty good for a homeless dude. Pretty shiat for anyone else. So, what we would do next is make all things like cooking, textiles, the arts, basically all the same shiat we do now, extra. That would cost money. You want decent food? Cough up some coins? Want coins? Offer up some value to another person. Carve a nice walking stick, sell it to a man who needs one, buy yourself a burger. You've earned it.

It would be hard at first, but ideally we'd have a hybrid of capitalism and communism. An actual working society where we work a bit for others and a lot for our own pet projects. Minimize this idea that you have to do drudgery, because you really don't.


Overall, the whole world now lives better than the Romans did.

We have tv, washing machines, and our children aren't dying as much. We live to be ancient.

Work still sucks, though. Gains in productivity go to the owners.
 
2014-03-26 08:32:33 AM

WhyteRaven74: Just get rid of all exemptions to overtime, make any overtime above 100 hours per year voluntary, meaning once you get to 100 hours, if you want to go home and not work overtime if you have other plans, you can do so. Also at least 3 weeks paid vacation for everyone. And at least 9 months leave for each parent after the birth of a child.


You'd have to make any overtime over 100 hours illegal, not just voluntary, to have any effect.
 
2014-03-26 08:34:08 AM

Shadowe: What you're describing doglover is basically a semi-scarcity or early post-scarcity economy. Think about it this way: What happens when our ability to produce exceeds our ability to consume to such a point that there's simply no need for every single person to work in order for us to be able to afford to feed and shelter every single person on a basic level?

We've already hit that point with food, the world produces enough food for everyone to be as fat as americans, but there isn't enough money in the world for everyone to buy their share of food. So we let them starve.

Why? Because American culture isn't anti-welfare, that's a common misunderstanding. American culture is Pro-Suffering. That's why for all the talk about family values we offer fark all in the way of actually giving people time off so they can actually be with their family.


People USED to make enough money and have enough time off to actually spend time with their families or on civic involvement, that's why parents and especially grandparents talk so much about the freemasons, the elks, bowling leagues... they had the TIME to do this shiat.


Suffering builds character. Supposed to, anyway.

These starving people should learn to pick themselves up.
 
2014-03-26 08:34:18 AM

No Such Agency: So after a day at work, HE gets to kick back and put his feet up... but HER day at work keeps going?  That sounds... equitable.


It also explains why  AAAspends all of his time trolling Fark, because there's no way that guy is in a relationship with anything other than redtube.
 
2014-03-26 08:36:13 AM

WhyteRaven74: Just get rid of all exemptions to overtime, make any overtime above 100 hours per year voluntary, meaning once you get to 100 hours, if you want to go home and not work overtime if you have other plans, you can do so. Also at least 3 weeks paid vacation for everyone. And at least 9 months leave for each parent after the birth of a child.


In my fantasy world, I'd love to get rid of salaried positions. At least when I was a kid working for hourly wages, overtime was an option. It's bullshiat to be paid the same whether I work 40 hours a week, or 80 or 100.

In my line of work (researcher paid solely from grants, which is another bullshiat thing, but I digress), we have this thing called effort reporting, which is a federal requirement that we certify that if half our salary in a given year was supposed to come from Project X and have from Project Y, that that was actually how our time spent working was divided. Note that I said "time spent working." That's because the definition of effort reporting explicitly avoids assuming a set number of hours a week. There's just something wrong about that, IMHO.
 
2014-03-26 08:40:52 AM
I used to work for a sociopath who truly did believe someone having a family life was stealing from the company. He was big on conference calls at noon on mandated holidays, and he took precisely one week a year off (at the insistence of his wife) but every day of that week he had to have a morning and afternoon conference call and he stayed on email nonstop. He transferred an administrative assistant who had the temerity to take a full week off when her husband died.

You'll be happy to hear that he's in jail now for massive embezzlement and fraud. Apparently that wife was spending every penny she could while he was living his job
 
2014-03-26 08:48:26 AM

Mr. Coffee Nerves: I used to work for a sociopath who truly did believe someone having a family life was stealing from the company. He was big on conference calls at noon on mandated holidays, and he took precisely one week a year off (at the insistence of his wife) but every day of that week he had to have a morning and afternoon conference call and he stayed on email nonstop. He transferred an administrative assistant who had the temerity to take a full week off when her husband died.

You'll be happy to hear that he's in jail now for massive embezzlement and fraud. Apparently that wife was spending every penny she could while he was living his job


50/50 that wasn't dedication, that was paranoia.  If he didn't check in on the office, someone might go through his files and find evidence.  If he couldn't check on people constantly, they might be talking behind his back.
 
2014-03-26 08:53:03 AM
I'm 27 so I'm in the beginning stages of the life we all dread. I work for a good company that is actually Canadian and while we don't have Family Day every month like they do they are pretty generous with other benefits.

I took my first trip to Europe a few weeks ago and I was shocked to see so many young people say fark it and just move to an entirely new country and see what they could do to live. The Europeans we met didn't understand why we couldn't extend our vacation and tag along with them to whatever city they were off to next. They all asked if it was true that we worked a ton of hours and only got two weeks off. It was interesting and depressing at the same time.
 
2014-03-26 09:00:22 AM

WienerButt: I'm 27 so I'm in the beginning stages of the life we all dread. I work for a good company that is actually Canadian and while we don't have Family Day every month like they do they are pretty generous with other benefits.

I took my first trip to Europe a few weeks ago and I was shocked to see so many young people say fark it and just move to an entirely new country and see what they could do to live. The Europeans we met didn't understand why we couldn't extend our vacation and tag along with them to whatever city they were off to next. They all asked if it was true that we worked a ton of hours and only got two weeks off. It was interesting and depressing at the same time.


Lazy Europeans.

Who wants to live like that?
 
2014-03-26 09:01:45 AM

Lydia_C: In my fantasy world, I'd love to get rid of salaried positions.


There's a reason for them though.  I've worked jobs where some travel was required, for example, to visit customers on-site.  At what point am I working or not working?  When I'm packing?  On the way to the airport?  Sleeping on the plane?  Eating at a restaurant?  Decompressing in my hotel room playing video games?  I'm spending time for the company in the sense that I'm away from family in a boring town with nothing to do, but I'm not really on the clock either.  And what about response-based on-call work, like electrical repair?  They should get paid overtime when they're burning the midnight oil, but do we not pay them when they're at home waiting for a call?  It makes it impossible for them (or the employer for that matter) to budget.

For occupations where the definition of "work" is more nebulous, salary makes sense.  It doesn't make a lick of sense (except for greedy owners) for stuff like store managers where their work can very easily be measured in hours, and they're only moved to salary to screw them out of 20-30 hours of pay per week.

Mr. Coffee Nerves: You'll be happy to hear that he's in jail now for massive embezzlement and fraud.


I'll keep an eye out for him on next election's ballot.
 
2014-03-26 09:02:29 AM

AlwaysRightBoy: I work with so many 20-year-olds in NYC that I want to kill KILL KILL!

/maybe a little more of kill.. KILL KILL KILLL.... seriously how did they ever make it through college.. It amazes me? Half of these kids that are sent to me and I have to hire don't know what a shoelase is no lest the jist of what ad work is like..
/old guy in the ad bis... kill KILL KILL KILL Wahhhhhhhhhhhhh


*pulls a medal out and pins it on*
You're our boy.

/now back to reading the thread
 
2014-03-26 09:12:25 AM

SuperTramp: U.S. The Only Advanced Economy That Does Not Require Employers To Provide Paid Vacation Time

[b-i.forbesimg.com image 624x445]


So much THIS.

Where is that old commercial from Universal Studios Florida when I need it!
 
2014-03-26 09:14:50 AM

dragonchild: Lydia_C: In my fantasy world, I'd love to get rid of salaried positions.

There's a reason for them though.  I've worked jobs where some travel was required, for example, to visit customers on-site.  At what point am I working or not working?  When I'm packing?  On the way to the airport?  Sleeping on the plane?  Eating at a restaurant?  Decompressing in my hotel room playing video games?  I'm spending time for the company in the sense that I'm away from family in a boring town with nothing to do, but I'm not really on the clock either.  And what about response-based on-call work, like electrical repair?  They should get paid overtime when they're burning the midnight oil, but do we not pay them when they're at home waiting for a call?  It makes it impossible for them (or the employer for that matter) to budget.

For occupations where the definition of "work" is more nebulous, salary makes sense.  It doesn't make a lick of sense (except for greedy owners) for stuff like store managers where their work can very easily be measured in hours, and they're only moved to salary to screw them out of 20-30 hours of pay per week.



I do realize that salaried positions can have a purpose. But for some things like travel it's not impossible to figure out a way to handle number of hours in a standardized way, instead of assuming that the person isn't nebulously working/not working the entire time while out of the office. (Certainly, no one I know who ever traveled for work had any trouble identifying personal time while away.)

Mostly I'm just bothered by the fact that salaried positions are so often taken as a license to abuse people's fear of losing their jobs by trying to wring burnout-worthy amounts of work from them and not paying them for their effort.
 
2014-03-26 09:14:57 AM

WhyteRaven74: Just get rid of all exemptions to overtime, make any overtime above 100 hours per year voluntary


Alas, in the corporate world, "voluntary" always seems to mean "do it, or we'll find a reason to fire you and hire someone who WILL do it".  You'd have to have truly ironclad worker protections in place to make that effective.
 
2014-03-26 09:16:33 AM

Lydia_C: dragonchild: Lydia_C: In my fantasy world, I'd love to get rid of salaried positions.

There's a reason for them though.  I've worked jobs where some travel was required, for example, to visit customers on-site.  At what point am I working or not working?  When I'm packing?  On the way to the airport?  Sleeping on the plane?  Eating at a restaurant?  Decompressing in my hotel room playing video games?  I'm spending time for the company in the sense that I'm away from family in a boring town with nothing to do, but I'm not really on the clock either.  And what about response-based on-call work, like electrical repair?  They should get paid overtime when they're burning the midnight oil, but do we not pay them when they're at home waiting for a call?  It makes it impossible for them (or the employer for that matter) to budget.

For occupations where the definition of "work" is more nebulous, salary makes sense.  It doesn't make a lick of sense (except for greedy owners) for stuff like store managers where their work can very easily be measured in hours, and they're only moved to salary to screw them out of 20-30 hours of pay per week.


I do realize that salaried positions can have a purpose. But for some things like travel it's not impossible to figure out a way to handle number of hours in a standardized way, instead of assuming that the person isn't nebulously working/not working the entire time while out of the office. (Certainly, no one I know who ever traveled for work had any trouble identifying personal time while away.)

Mostly I'm just bothered by the fact that salaried positions are so often taken as a license to abuse people's fear of losing their jobs by trying to wring burnout-worthy amounts of work from them and not paying them for their effort.


This.
 
2014-03-26 09:23:34 AM
Are you nervy, irritable, depressed, tired of life? ;) Keep it up.

i.onionstatic.com
 
2014-03-26 09:41:44 AM

Lydia_C: for some things like travel it's not impossible to figure out a way to handle number of hours in a standardized way


Possible, yes, but to replace salary you need to come up with something better.

Lydia_C: Mostly I'm just bothered by the fact that salaried positions are so often taken as a license to abuse people's fear of losing their jobs


We're in agreement there; I just question the priorities of your New World Order.  No free beer or naked donut parties, but hey at least everyone's hourly again?
 
2014-03-26 09:52:41 AM

dragonchild: Lydia_C: for some things like travel it's not impossible to figure out a way to handle number of hours in a standardized way

Possible, yes, but to replace salary you need to come up with something better.


On travel days, a combination of hours traveled plus some comp time to be taken later, or a travel premium of x hours per day away? Just one idea, I'm sure creative minds can come up with solutions that are acceptable to staff based on industry expectations and the company's budget.


Lydia_C: Mostly I'm just bothered by the fact that salaried positions are so often taken as a license to abuse people's fear of losing their jobs

We're in agreement there; I just question the priorities of your New World Order.  No free beer or naked donut parties, but hey at least everyone's hourly again?


Where the heck do you work that you get free beer and donut parties??? We don't even get free coffee in my office.   :-/
 
2014-03-26 09:55:57 AM

No Such Agency: WhyteRaven74: Just get rid of all exemptions to overtime, make any overtime above 100 hours per year voluntary

Alas, in the corporate world, "voluntary" always seems to mean "do it, or we'll find a reason to fire you and hire someone who WILL do it".  You'd have to have truly ironclad worker protections in place to make that effective.


Yeah, nothing like getting biatched at for leaving the office at 6:30 when there isn't a deadline/crunch time and I'm on track for 65 hours that week.  If people are trying to figure out why Americans are so over worked, look towards the corporate culture where its a dick waiving contest between everyone over how much you can work in a week and how important you are for working that many hours.

/finally got off that train
//public sector work FTW
 
2014-03-26 10:08:59 AM

Gyrfalcon: You have to have your priorities, and decide what you can live without, is all. And what you want to have.

My sister has five kids, a full-time job, a dog, and a mostly worthless husband (he works, and that's about it). The kids all have various sports activities, homework, piles of clothes, and demands on her attention. She tried for a while; but now she takes time to sleep, eat, and read by not cleaning the house every day, or cooking dinner every night. The kids get take-out or pizza or chicken nuggets for dinner.

If people don't like it (it drives my mom crazy), well, too bad. She's busy and wants to have fun with her kids now and to live to see all her grandkids someday, so something has to give, and since my BIL won't do his share of the chores, it's live in a messy house and don't cook for five finicky kids all the time. And she's a lot less stressed than many of these women with fewer kids who are trying to live the perfect suburban dream.

You just CAN'T have it all, ladies and gentlemen. Sorry.


THIS.  There's a lot of burden that falls on women: laundry, kid wrangling, organizing household life, cooking, etc.Their hubby's either don't do it because they don't know how or they consider it "girl work".

Also, I found that some women have a hard time letting men do this sort of work because "they won't do it right". It's really hard for them to let go because when people see a messy house they blame it on the woman and not the man because culturally we think "Well MEN are SUPPOSED to be messy."

Case in point, when my mother came to visit me once after a month of working 12 hour days to launch a website, and she took it upon herself to yell at me for having a messy household. Just me, not my husband or my roommate, both men.

A complicating factor for modern women is that while we where taught to do both traditionally girl and boy chores, our brothers where not. When I confronted my mother about this at a teen*, she confessed that she didn't realize what she was doing this and changed her ways after that.

My Husband and I both had to work this out and it's been a long road. I had to be willing to deal with something less than perfect and he need to learn how to cook and what our "acceptable" level of mess was.

On top of it all, if your Mom is so concerned with your sister's house SHE should pay for a cleaning and laundry service. I know in America people tend to only think this is for the rich but it's not that expensive. Why do you think Mrs. Brady had a housekeeper?

/*I was tried of doing kitchen cleaning, laundry, and weeding while my brothers only had to do lawn work during the summer
 
2014-03-26 10:11:12 AM

Lydia_C: Where the heck do you work that you get free beer and donut parties??


In my fantasies, unlike yours:

Lydia_C: In my fantasy world, I'd love to get rid of salaried positions.


I see your point, but talk about a lack of imagination!  Work must have killed your dreams.
 
2014-03-26 10:12:25 AM

Lenny_da_Hog: Hmm. I don't see a column for "Stress" or "Quality of Life" here on the spreadsheet... And I don't see it in Oracle... It doesn't appear anywhere on the profit and loss report....

It must not be an issue.


Yeah, I don't see them under my S.M.A.R.T goals for the quarter, so they aren't important.
 
2014-03-26 10:15:52 AM

shortymac: THIS.  There's a lot of burden that falls on women: laundry, kid wrangling, organizing household life, cooking, etc.Their hubby's either don't do it because they don't know how or they consider it "girl work".


Way to generalize.

I know plenty of men who pull their weight in dual income households. Hell, I cook more often than she does (it helps that I enjoy it).
 
2014-03-26 10:17:11 AM

dragonchild: Lydia_C: Where the heck do you work that you get free beer and donut parties??

In my fantasies, unlike yours:

Lydia_C: In my fantasy world, I'd love to get rid of salaried positions.

I see your point, but talk about a lack of imagination!  Work must have killed your dreams.



Well played - can I blame my lack of office-provided coffee? :-)

At the moment, at least part of my job lets me fantasize about sci-fi kinds of things, so at least that's helping to make up for being salaried...
 
2014-03-26 10:19:26 AM

sendtodave: Overall, the whole world now lives better than the Romans did.


We have tv, washing machines, and our children aren't dying as much. We live to be ancient.

Work still sucks, though. Gains in productivity go to the owners.


encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com

"Tell me more about how much your job interferes with your happiness..."

 
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