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(MN Vapers)   Why is the American Lung Assn against e-cigs? Because one of their major donors makes money from smoking cessation drugs   (mnvapers.com) divider line 85
    More: Obvious, American Library Association, March of Dimes, Chantix, electronic cigarette, harm reduction, charity, safety concerns, smoking  
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4562 clicks; posted to Main » on 26 Mar 2014 at 12:12 AM (22 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



Voting Results (Smartest)
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

2014-03-25 08:36:23 PM
12 votes:

vygramul: Eddy Gurge: [CSB]
Smoked 1-2 packs a day for 35 years.  Had my last Marlboro on January 30'th of this year after a scare with pneumonia from some strange bacterial infection.   I love(d) smoking and knew I'd never quit.  While in the hospital (for a week) I had my wife bring me a couple of the Blu cigs from 7-11 (used them in the bathroom in my room).  I was pleased enough with them that I had her get me a Halo starter kit for my return home. There's been no looking back.  Currently puffing on an iTaste 134 mini with a Kanger Aero Tank.  I'm not going back, and I don't hack and cough any more.  Oh, and I can breath, smell and taste.  Screw the ALA.
[/CSB]

I'd be fine if eCigs would let people know what chemicals they're using. DEG causes kidney failure and was found in some eCigs. I'm all for people putting things in their bodies... so long as they know what they're putting in their bodies. The Free Market can only work with information available to everyone in the transaction.


Do you understand the absurdity in what you're saying? The people who are switching to e-cigarettes are people who are no longer smoking. There are so many carcinogenic compounds in cigarettes that dismissing e-cigarettes because of some potential health hazard utterly misses the point. Furthermore, if you don't deal with Big Tobacco to get your e-cigarettes, they tell you exactly what is in them. The people I deal with use propylene glycol, vegetable glycerin, nicotine extract, and a flavor compound, ingredients on demand, no secrets kept.

The controversy about e-cigarettes exists not because they are harmful, but because of control. It's the same impulse that causes people to get involved in your sex life, or what you eat. A healthy dose of anti-smoking vengeance is included, the whole "we had to deal with you smokers for years, now it's OUR turn!" nonsense. People are demonstrably using e-cigarettes to get off the cancer sticks, they are becoming healthier by the day, and the alleged smell isn't even remotely as cloying as a typical person's deodorant/cologne/perfume and should be deemed a welcome trade-off for people coming back in to work smelling of cigarette smoke or making you smell like ass when you're out and about.

There's simply no legitimate objection to adults using e-smokes. There just isn't.
2014-03-25 08:14:10 PM
9 votes:

Eddy Gurge: [CSB]
Smoked 1-2 packs a day for 35 years.  Had my last Marlboro on January 30'th of this year after a scare with pneumonia from some strange bacterial infection.   I love(d) smoking and knew I'd never quit.  While in the hospital (for a week) I had my wife bring me a couple of the Blu cigs from 7-11 (used them in the bathroom in my room).  I was pleased enough with them that I had her get me a Halo starter kit for my return home. There's been no looking back.  Currently puffing on an iTaste 134 mini with a Kanger Aero Tank.  I'm not going back, and I don't hack and cough any more.  Oh, and I can breath, smell and taste.  Screw the ALA.
[/CSB]


I'd be fine if eCigs would let people know what chemicals they're using. DEG causes kidney failure and was found in some eCigs. I'm all for people putting things in their bodies... so long as they know what they're putting in their bodies. The Free Market can only work with information available to everyone in the transaction.
2014-03-25 07:50:19 PM
6 votes:
Okay, if "Minnesota Vapers Advocacy" says so.
2014-03-25 06:48:35 PM
6 votes:
My FIL used to cough constantly when he had his 2 pack a day habit.  6 months into his e-cig, no more coughing.  He actually has started running, and is doing a 5K next month.  fark you ALA, e-cigs are awesome.
2014-03-26 12:17:10 AM
5 votes:
The ALA doesn't like e-cigs because people who use them quit smoking. Healthy people don't need an ALA.
2014-03-25 09:41:10 PM
5 votes:
I was also a two pack a day for 35 years etc, etc. I've been on e-cigs exclusively since mid October last year.

Many people use e-cigs to help quit or cut back on cigarettes. However, the e-cig proponents almost always point out the fact that they aren't for smoking cessation. They're still working to get FDA approval for that.

E-cigs have far fewer harmful substances than regular cigarettes do. I can understand why more research should be done regarding long term usage, but this alone strongly indicates that vaping is far less harmful than smoking. The user also has control over what goes into the juice they use, smokers don't have much choice at all.

E-cigs are usually much less expensive than regular cigarettes. I'm saving over $200 a month vaping instead of smoking. I'm sure that, over time, the various governments will start applying sin taxes. But until then the savings are significant.

All in all, I don't see what the argument is about.
2014-03-25 08:59:07 PM
5 votes:

Adolf Oliver Nipples: Do you understand the absurdity in what you're saying? The people who are switching to e-cigarettes are people who are no longer smoking. There are so many carcinogenic compounds in cigarettes that dismissing e-cigarettes because of some potential health hazard utterly misses the point. Furthermore, if you don't deal with Big Tobacco to get your e-cigarettes, they tell you exactly what is in them. The people I deal with use propylene glycol, vegetable glycerin, nicotine extract, and a flavor compound, ingredients on demand, no secrets kept.

The controversy about e-cigarettes exists not because they are harmful, but because of control. It's the same impulse that causes people to get involved in your sex life, or what you eat. A healthy dose of anti-smoking vengeance is included, the whole "we had to deal with you smokers for years, now it's OUR turn!" nonsense. People are demonstrably using e-cigarettes to get off the cancer sticks, they are becoming healthier by the day, and the alleged smell isn't even remotely as cloying as a typical person's deodorant/cologne/perfume and should be deemed a welcome trade-off for people coming back in to work smelling of cigarette smoke or making you smell like ass when you're out and about.

There's simply no legitimate objection to adults using e-smokes. There just isn't.


You need to step back for a moment and think about the absurdity in what you're saying.

I shouldn't hold the eCig manufacturers responsible for being transparent because what they put in eCigs can't POSSIBLY be as bad as what cigarettes do.

That's like my telling you you shouldn't hate the TSA because the NSA is way worse.
2014-03-26 12:19:42 AM
4 votes:

433: e-cigs are a gateway to cigarettes.  Kids are going to puff on an e-cig or a vaporizer and get curious about the real deal.  All it needs is big tobacco getting their shiat in gear to have their hands in all the pockets again.  A marlboro man made by vaporizing is as good as one made through conventional cigarettes.


You are either a troll or so stupid you should just go run to your nearest highway and play in traffic, idiot.
2014-03-25 11:12:40 PM
4 votes:

AirForceVet: I don't see many electronic cigarette users quitting nicotine. Rather they use the e-cigs in places where they can't smoke.

So they're still hooked to a harmful drug and not quitting.


I quit smoking entirely, then reduced the nicotine to 0. In about 4-5 months.

So, while it might not have been more statistically effective than just quitting cold, it helped me, because God knows I tried quitting. Didn't want to start either, but for a stupid roommate. I got enough second-hand smoke to give me headaches if I didn't smoke.

I don't think anyone who vapes would be averse to research on the safety of vaporized vegetable glycerin, PG, or various other additives. I think what they're averse to is the recent onslaught of proposed legislation and talking heads beating on about how it's far more dangerous than smoking. Who wouldn't get a tad defensive of the happy thing that got them off of gawdawful tobacco?
2014-03-25 09:31:15 PM
4 votes:

433: Would you be putting vegetable oil in your lungs under regular circumstances?


You do it every day. It's called "cooking". Those smells you love in your favorite restaurant? Yep, all kinds of volatile compounds, not the least of which is the oil it was cooked in.
2014-03-25 08:20:17 PM
4 votes:

vygramul: I'd be fine if eCigs would let people know what chemicals they're using. DEG causes kidney failure and was found in some eCigs. I'm all for people putting things in their bodies... so long as they know what they're putting in their bodies. The Free Market can only work with information available to everyone in the transaction.


Yep. Go and e-cig it up. Just do it with the understanding that nicotine is toxic and that there is no meaningful regulation of what goes in these things. And don't make bullshiat claims like those in TFA that e-cigs "save lives".

Also, the fact that an advocacy group feels the need to put out a horseshiat-laden press release on the subject should probably raise a couple of red flags for people.
2014-03-25 08:15:32 PM
4 votes:
The profit motive doesn't make any sense here. Members of the American Lung Association, primarily Physicians and their practice employees, stand to make BILLIONS from people from the harm caused by cigarette smoking, tobacco use, second-hand smoke, and even e-cigarettes.

COPD alone cost 49.9 billion dollars in direct and indirect healthcare costs from patients in 2010. In addition, these are patients who will be spending that money for the rest of their natural life, not just for even a few years with smoking cessation aids.

This is nothing but a rehashing of the "Pharma Profit Gambit" that clogs up the intertubes.
2014-03-26 12:48:12 AM
3 votes:

AirForceVet: I don't see many electronic cigarette users quitting nicotine. Rather they use the e-cigs in places where they can't smoke.

So they're still hooked to a harmful drug and not quitting.


While nicotine is harmfull in certain dosages, regular cigarettes and e-cigarettes have similar amounts of nicotine.

When I started using e-cigarettes regularly, I used juice with a nicotine level similar to full flavored tobacco. I have, since, gone to a juice that has a nicotine level equivalent to a light cigarette. But the overall experience i.e. throat hit, volume of vapor, etc... is the same as the full flavored cigarettes.

I plan to go to juice with an even lower nicotine level. I hope to get to a product with zero nicotine within the next 11-16 months.

But, regardless of any of that, I'm happy to have gone beyond all of the other crap found in regular cigarettes and only be dealing with the nicotine content as a serious health concern.
2014-03-25 10:33:16 PM
3 votes:
I'm surprised that the tobacco industry hasn't had everyone involved with e-cigs killed long ago.
2014-03-25 09:40:21 PM
3 votes:

hardinparamedic: Paracelsus frowns on your post. Vaporized oils directly from a nozzle in your mouth inhaled into your lungs is quite different from the chance a small amount of oil might accompany steam from a skillet.


You have never worked in a restaurant, I take it. Want to see something scary? Pull off a wall covering, something that's been mounted on the wall for a few years. The contrast between that and the rest of the wall will blow your mind.

The air is thick with cooking oil. A little bit? A hell of a lot more than you might imagine.
2014-03-25 09:34:32 PM
3 votes:

Adolf Oliver Nipples: You do it every day. It's called "cooking". Those smells you love in your favorite restaurant? Yep, all kinds of volatile compounds, not the least of which is the oil it was cooked in.


people.virginia.edu

Paracelsus frowns on your post. Vaporized oils directly from a nozzle in your mouth inhaled into your lungs is quite different from the chance a small amount of oil might accompany steam from a skillet.
2014-03-25 08:54:46 PM
3 votes:

Adolf Oliver Nipples: The controversy about e-cigarettes exists not because they are harmful, but because of control.


Some people might disagree with you on that.
2014-03-25 08:26:57 PM
3 votes:
Oh, also? Those e-Cigs? They're not as grand as you claim they are:

From the Journal of the American Medical Association
2014-03-26 06:29:13 AM
2 votes:

hardinparamedic: SuperTramp: Unless I've been only dreaming that I read this thread, YOU have been arguing BUT NICOTINE!!!!1111!!

I've been arguing against people who think nicotine is safe or harmless.

Sorry. No sell.

[i.imgur.com image 640x360]

Plus, it makes you look gay.



I normally enjoy your fact filled posts, but here you're just being a jerk.
2014-03-26 03:48:57 AM
2 votes:
I've finally come to the realization that the people who are most against vaping do it because they simply love being angry about something.  They've been so anti-smoking for so long that they simply can't help themselves.  There is no logic involved.  The facts about vaping are readily available and gets posted to every single e-cig thread on fark.  And are promptly ignored or dismissed.

How about you get your panting in a twist about something important and get the fark out of my life.
2014-03-26 02:39:34 AM
2 votes:

Enigmamf: hjy6: That "oil" (which is used in hospitals) is FDA approved so there's that

FDA approved for nebulized inhalation?


Actually...yes.
2014-03-26 02:07:15 AM
2 votes:

Adolf Oliver Nipples: oil


hardinparamedic: 433: Would you be putting vegetable oil in your lungs under regular circumstances?

Vegetable oil is GRAS (Generally regarded as safe) unless it's in droplet concentrations. The bigger problems, from an inhalation standpoint, would be the flavoring (if it contains diactyl, acetoin, or a similar artificial flavoring). Exposure to these compounds over long terms causes "Popcorn Worker Lung", or Bronchopulmonary Obliterans, a universally fatal (without lung transplant) condition.


Why do you keep calling it oil??
The liquid you put in an e cigarette is nicotine suspended in vegetable glycerin (not an oil) and propylene glycol (not an oil) and flavour. You are literally beating up the same straw man.
2014-03-26 02:06:08 AM
2 votes:

Enigmamf: hjy6: That "oil" (which is used in hospitals) is FDA approved so there's that

FDA approved for nebulized inhalation?


yes and used in smoke machines at the Disco
2014-03-26 01:12:08 AM
2 votes:
When e cigs finally caught up to being worth it - i thru away my ashtray! (20 YEAR smoker) started with disposables and then switched to  INNOKIN it has been 9 months and have NO reason nor inclination to got back to being the smelly smoker.

 The only drawback that I can see is... when you smoke a cig It goes OUT - which lets you know you are done for one cig - with vaping NO such thing. And I FEEL so much better!!!!!
one more
http://ecigarettereviewed.com/top-20-rebuttals-to-win-an-e-cigarette -d ebate

I know that teens that vape that have NEVER smoked... which I find disturbing... what is that about??
2014-03-26 12:53:07 AM
2 votes:

hardinparamedic: Adolf Oliver Nipples: The controversy about e-cigarettes exists not because they are harmful, but because of control.

Some people might disagree with you on that.


Yeah..ONE harmful chemical vs 4,000,harmful ones.

Gee...lemme think which is better....
2014-03-26 12:52:47 AM
2 votes:

LazyMedia: It even comes in bubble gum flavor!


Because only children like "sweet". Sugar is more addictive and destructive. Better ban it.
2014-03-26 12:46:52 AM
2 votes:

nyseattitude: The My Little Pony Killer: Very interesting revelation, considering the high number of Farkers who mistakenly believe the e-cig to be a smoking cessation device.

And you consider it a ____?


It's an alternative nicotine delivery mechanism, one that satisfies a lot of the psychological cravings of cigarette smokers. Instead of quitting smoking completely because it's becoming socially unacceptable, you can switch to vaping and continue to double or quadruple your risk of heart attack and stroke. Also, as smoking is becoming uncool with the kidz, vaping nicotine fills that essential hook-them-young niche. It even comes in bubble gum flavor!
2014-03-26 12:22:53 AM
2 votes:
It's sad to think the ALA would rather have me die of lung cancer. This pathetic organization needs to go.
2014-03-25 10:55:06 PM
2 votes:

AirForceVet: I don't see many electronic cigarette users quitting nicotine. Rather they use the e-cigs in places where they can't smoke.

So they're still hooked to a harmful drug and not quitting.


I don't know about "many", but my anecdotal evidence (which is a kind of evidence after all) is that some of the people I know that have switched have then found it much easier to cut down, first by reducing the amount of nicotine in their juice, then cutting it out completely until they're just smoking flavor.
2014-03-25 09:49:06 PM
2 votes:

Adolf Oliver Nipples: You have never worked in a restaurant, I take it. Want to see something scary? Pull off a wall covering, something that's been mounted on the wall for a few years. The contrast between that and the rest of the wall will blow your mind.

The air is thick with cooking oil. A little bit? A hell of a lot more than you might imagine.


Not really, no. My mother managed a restaurant for Marriot for almost twenty years. Most people don't stand directly under the oil and take nice, big lung inflating breaths, was my point  AON. 

E-cigarettes are already showing to be of dubious actual benefit in cessation of smoking in peer reviewed studies. And the fact that many of the manufactured oil brands contain compounds known to do both lung and cardiac injury (diactyl and derivatives from flavoring, and nicotine) is enough to make someone worry about it as an informed consumer.

I don't think any legitimate medical body is claiming that they are as harmful as an actual cigarettes or cigars. I think what they are doing is calling for caution and investigation into many of the claims being made.
2014-03-25 09:32:50 PM
2 votes:

Adolf Oliver Nipples: So I guess we should just ban them.


I like how anyone saying anything negative about Our Sainted e-Cigs is in favor of banning them, even though no one has said that. You're one of those people who think being criticized is a violation of your right to free speech, aren't you?
433 [TotalFark]
2014-03-25 09:22:04 PM
2 votes:
I don't know how wise it is to be inhaling vegetable oil (or whatever) either.  Sure, you can exhale it, but plenty was left behind.  Nicotine is crazy addictive, too.  You're pledging to suck the cock of your favorite vaporizer company until you put it down for good.  I don't think a company marketing a nicotine delivery device outside of gum and patches has that many scruples.  Nicotine is not good for a body.

There are many things that are not good for a body.  Not too many of those things are addictive drugs like nicotine.

Would you be putting vegetable oil in your lungs under regular circumstances?

Smoking sure is great, though.  Dammit!  Why must it be so awful for us!
2014-03-25 09:15:08 PM
2 votes:
Maybe because electronic cigarettes aren't good for your lungs either?
2014-03-25 08:17:12 PM
2 votes:

vygramul: I'd be fine if eCigs would let people know what chemicals they're using


I am particular about where I get my juice.  I settled on 100% VG, 12mg on the nicotine, and typically some kind of fruit flavor, which I would have laughed at 3 months ago.
2014-03-25 08:11:11 PM
2 votes:
[CSB]
Smoked 1-2 packs a day for 35 years.  Had my last Marlboro on January 30'th of this year after a scare with pneumonia from some strange bacterial infection.   I love(d) smoking and knew I'd never quit.  While in the hospital (for a week) I had my wife bring me a couple of the Blu cigs from 7-11 (used them in the bathroom in my room).  I was pleased enough with them that I had her get me a Halo starter kit for my return home. There's been no looking back.  Currently puffing on an iTaste 134 mini with a Kanger Aero Tank.  I'm not going back, and I don't hack and cough any more.  Oh, and I can breath, smell and taste.  Screw the ALA.
[/CSB]
2014-03-27 08:56:37 AM
1 votes:

Egoy3k: HotWingConspiracy: Elegy: Amd if you're tired of your coworkers going outside for smoke breaks, what is keeping you from walking outside for a des hair break? Sounds like you have a problem and want to blame your coworkers for it. Classy.

I find not being able to make it through the work day without frequent breaks to use drugs classy as well.

He says as he sips from his coffee mug with a smug sense of satisfaction.


Funny thing, I can drink while I'm working.  I don't have to leave my desk and inconvenience  everyone else due to my selfish habit. Plus I can go forever without coffee and not turn in to a raging moron. And it's easy to be self satisfied when you don't smell like shiat all day.

GoldSpider: HotWingConspiracy: I find not being able to make it through the work day without frequent breaks to use drugs classy as well.

Oh, now it makes sense.  You don't like things like ecigs that can help smokers quit because your emotional wellbeing depends on having a large pool of people to judge.


Actually the numbers say they don't do such a great job as a quitting assistant. And you're the upset emotional one here. I just get to kick back and watch you cry.
2014-03-26 11:19:54 PM
1 votes:
Hey hardinparamedic, let's review some of your recent posting history:

You telling someone they failed at reading comprehension

You patronizingly using "do go on" and "tell us more"

You telling someone they are "Incredibly, unabashedly, Heartland Foundation bought and paid for by Phillip Morris level Bullshiat wrong."

You posting semi-NSFW dildo and simulated cum shot inline

You posting another inline dildo

You posting long blocks of Latin, aka "shiatposting"

You posting your mom joke directed at another user

You posting another inline dildo

And now then there's this:

The only reason I called Elegy an idiot was because I was accused of enjoying keeping people sick. I was outright told that I enjoy watching people die of cancer.

People who don't even know me personally have accused me of being on a power trip where I enjoy abusing and harming my patients for attention.


Presumably because I cracked this:

Also not surprised hardinparamedic wants people to keep smoking. If he doesn't have sick people to help, where will his smug sense of self-importance and superiority come from?

Which obviously went way over your head because it so obviously a sarcastic crack on your behavior not your professional competence.

Well this is what I say to that:
i.imgur.com

Suck it up, buttercup. It's time to put on your big boy pants and get onto the internet. You give as you get, and you get no sympathy for whining about how others treat you when you treat others as you have treated them.

As a bonus, you're flat out wrong and fighting on the wrong side. E-cigarettes have the potential to vastly reduce the harm from smoking. If you are serious about not wanting people to die of cancer, then read the links I posted.

Better yet, come into a thread and ask those of us who have experience with and who have researched the technology. Do you think any of us made the transition on a whim? I build my own coils from scratch and am just starting to mix my own juice - do you honestly think I haven't heavily researched what I am doing? There are numerous people here on Fark that taught me about the technology for the price of asking, and I would be happy to teach you what you obviously don't know (cooking oil for farks sake!). It's ridiculously simple.

But until you quit being a dick, you can suck it up and you can either prove your skepticism is warranted with the science you demand of everyone else or you can tuck your tail between your farking legs and slink out of here in defeat.

Be safe driving.
2014-03-26 04:14:54 PM
1 votes:

Elegy: Mugato: Why would you think the tobacco industry wouldn't want to stamp out e-cigs? People are quitting tobacco for e-cigs.

Why would big tobacco want to stamp out the hottest new thing in "smoking" and an industry that is growing at an enormous rate, when it can seize control of the entire industry and establish an oligopoly through federal regulation?

Which is precisely why there has been a big push, led by big tobacco, for the FDA to regulate ecigs as "tobacco products."  Which actually happened recently, until public outcry forced the FDA to roll those plans back.


That's really not how things work.
2014-03-26 09:57:02 AM
1 votes:

hardinparamedic: Because, in the end, that's what it is


You are so focused on sucking cock that you can't have a conversation without bringing up your love of sucking cock.

hardinparamedic: All snark aside, can you link to those studies? I'd be genuinely interested in their quality, impact, and source publication.


No, you wouldn't.  You're a lying asshole.  You have no interest in actual facts.  You just like sucking dick and biatching.
2014-03-26 09:54:08 AM
1 votes:

Elegy: Ecigs are just another way for big tobacco to hook you


Just the opposite. Big Tobacco is what's keeping e-cigs being banned for obvious reasons.

/doesn't smoke anything
//annoyed that co-workers get to go on smoke breaks every 20 minutes
///try to go on vodka breaks and they get all pissed off
2014-03-26 09:22:34 AM
1 votes:
If you have said any of the below, it automatically disqualifies you from further comment because you are an idiot:

-Ecig users don't know what's in the stuff they're vaping
-Ecigs are just another way for big tobacco to hook you
-Nicotine is dangerous in and of itself
-There are no real scientific studies of ecig use.


Also not surprised hardinparamedic wants people to keep smoking. If he doesn't have sick people to help, where will his smug sense of self-importance and superiority come from?

Start here:
peer reviewed meta review of around 100 other studies on ecig use that finds there is no significant health or cancer risk from ecig use

And then there's this:

Electronic cigarette vapor appears chemically incapable of causing cancer as cigarette smoke has done. E-cigarette vapor contains toxicants concentrations averaging less than one percent of the concentrations in tobacco cigarette smoke.


And this:
Monkeys and rats were exposed continuously to high concentrations of propylene glycol, a common component of e liquids for periods of 12 to 18 months. Results of the research state "air containing these vapors in amounts up to the saturation point is completely harmless".

And this:
Recent research indicates that electronic cigarette use does not affect the oxygenation of the heart. Lead by principle investigator Dr Konstantinos Farsalinos; results of the research were presented at the European Society of Cardiology annual congress in Amsterdam in August, 2013.

And this:
High nicotine e-liquids were vaporized in a series of experiments and the emissions compared to tobacco smoke. The study results indicate "no apparent risk to human health from e-cigarette emissions based on the compounds analyzed".

Want more? I have tons more.

Bottom line: if you are against an open and thriving ecig industry - if you want to see it regulated "like tobacco," and if you want the same limitations put on ecig use as tobacco use - you are part of the problem.

You are helping big tobacco keep their hooks in society and profit from their oligopoly and people's misery.

Stop being part of the problem.
2014-03-26 08:43:43 AM
1 votes:

hardinparamedic: doglover: Because abstinence only works so well.

Careful lighting those strawmen on fire. It's been dry this year.


There's actually a pretty good analogy in there:
Smoking cigarettes = unprotected sex.
E-cigs = protected sex.
Banning e-cigs =  abstinence only education.

It's safer not to do them at all, but if you really must have a cigarette...
2014-03-26 08:36:03 AM
1 votes:

Egoy3k: hardinparamedic: sjcousins: Consider yourself favourited.

And to you, Sir.

[i1.ytimg.com image 850x531]

Using gay a pejorative makes you a farking doubhebag. Grow up.


Wow coffee deficiency....

*ahem*

Using gay as a pejorative makes you a farking douchebag. Grow up.
2014-03-26 07:43:30 AM
1 votes:

wavion: If you say 1/3 of heart disease is influenced by smoking, that's still more than lung cancer.


Sure, assuming we're ignoring every other way cigarettes can kill other than lung cancer, and assuming "influenced" means "caused to the same degree that cigarettes cause lung cancer".

Face it; it was a dumb thing to say.
2014-03-26 07:28:35 AM
1 votes:

hardinparamedic: sjcousins: He's more of a fedora-wearing, brony, nurse but yeah, probably the best course of action.

I'm not your mother last night.

Men have been murdered for less horrendous accusations, Sir. The Holocaust was established on less offensive pretenses.


Sounds like something this guy would say.
img.fark.net
Consider yourself favourited.
2014-03-26 07:14:57 AM
1 votes:
But the people who get physically aroused by the prospect of banning things assure me that ecigs are at least as bad for you as cigarettes because feelings, not science.
2014-03-26 04:38:01 AM
1 votes:

sjcousins: Notsureifserious.jpg
You might want to look that word up again champ.


Irregardless of your pedantry, you're still wrong about the "lack of risk" from Nicotine to your cardiovascular system.

Incredibly, unabashedly, Heartland Foundation bought and paid for by Phillip Morris level Bullshiat wrong.
2014-03-26 04:28:21 AM
1 votes:
I get real tired of the e-cig hate from so many influential groups. I'm not a smoker, and I'm sure not starting because of e-cigs, but it seems to me they are far better for everyone, smokers and non-smokers, than normal cigarettes. Yes, it still needs to be noted they aren't good for you and you shouldn't start smoking (if for no other reason then it is damn expensive). However if you do smoke, then they are a really good alternative. Less harmful to the smoker, less harmful to others and they don't stink up the place.
2014-03-26 03:21:57 AM
1 votes:

hjy6: Contrary to popular belief, nicotine is not the cancer-causing agent in cigarettes.


Here I thought it might be the fine particulate, tar, and other combustion byproducts of burning plant matter that might be the main carcinogens.

/seriously, burning tobacco for the nicotine-as opposed to just because you like the taste-is about as silly as chewing on a willow branch because you really like the effects of aspirin but don't trust what the pill pushers put in their little caplets.
2014-03-26 03:01:11 AM
1 votes:
"Why is the American Lung Assn against e-cigs?"

Hey subby, just an FYI: this isn't Twitter. You can write out the whole word "Association" if you like.
2014-03-26 02:43:21 AM
1 votes:

Adolf Oliver Nipples: There's simply no legitimate objection to adults using e-smokes. There just isn't.


I'm not saying e-cigs or even regular cigs should be illegal, but there are certainly legitimate objections to their recreational use.

Firstly, nicotine itself is harmful.  The shape of the molecule causes damage to the circulatory system, and just about everything that increases the heart rate except exercise is bad for the heart.  I realize that alcohol also has the potential to cause harm, as does sitting around all day, and eating junk food.  Again, I'm not saying people shouldn't do these things, but I think discouraging the use of nicotine in the same ways we discourage the excessive use of alcohol and eating too much junk food is something we should encourage.  I have no qualms about people who want to use e-cigs as a smoking cessation method, but I wouldn't encourage people to take up e-cigs for recreational purposes any more than I would to take up the patch or nicotine gum for recreational purposes.  Just because they are not as harmful as normal cigarettes doesn't mean regular use won't still harm you.

Secondly, nicotine is highly addictive.  Anyone who smokes or has quit smoking can tell you how difficult it is to give up.  Any addictive drug tends to cause the addicts to divert funds from other things to their addiction, and many an ex-smoker has lamented the money wasted on cigarettes.  Becoming addicted to a drug which will influence a person's decision making is a bad thing, regardless of what drug the addiction is for.  As a society, we should be discouraging the use of nicotine in any form, except as a method for quitting nicotine.
2014-03-26 02:35:58 AM
1 votes:

hjy6: Enigmamf: hjy6: That "oil" (which is used in hospitals) is FDA approved so there's that

FDA approved for nebulized inhalation?

yes and used in smoke machines at the Disco


static.someecards.com
2014-03-26 02:24:31 AM
1 votes:

hardinparamedic: Oh, also? Those e-Cigs? They're not as grand as you claim they are:

From the Journal of the American Medical Association


They're also not nearly as dangerous as some people--including some doctors--would try to get people to believe: http://www.biomedcentral.com/1471-2458/14/18/

Read the entire study, including the part that indicates that there are higher concentrations of toxins in air fresheners than there are in the exhalations of vapers. The study is undergoing peer review at the moment, but Burstyn is a well-respected researcher... not that I expect the knee-jerking "save the children!" panic brigade to pay attention. But actual physicians who have read the paper seem comfortable with Burstyn's findings, which should tell folks something.
2014-03-26 02:21:02 AM
1 votes:

Cagey B: Okay, if "Minnesota Vapers Advocacy" says so.


Done in two.

Seriously, it's like a group of overzealous horse enthusiasts getting into a hissy fit because a guy donated money to the Safe Horsey Riding Association just because said guy once had to put a horse down.
2014-03-26 02:10:33 AM
1 votes:
The American Lung Association and the American Cancer Society and similar groups get a lot of their funding via cigarette taxes.

So if something like e-cigs are getting a lot of people off the cigs, they have to oppose it.  If everyone switched, their funding would be gone.

They don't care if people die, they care about their funding.

hjy6: I know that teens that vape that have NEVER smoked... which I find disturbing... what is that about??


Instead of starting to smoke, they started vaping.  Beats the hell out of smoking for several decades first, the way I did.
2014-03-26 01:43:23 AM
1 votes:

433: I don't know how wise it is to be inhaling vegetable oil (or whatever) either.  Sure, you can exhale it, but plenty was left behind.  Nicotine is crazy addictive, too.  You're pledging to suck the cock of your favorite vaporizer company until you put it down for good.  I don't think a company marketing a nicotine delivery device outside of gum and patches has that many scruples.  Nicotine is not good for a body.

There are many things that are not good for a body.  Not too many of those things are addictive drugs like nicotine.

Would you be putting vegetable oil in your lungs under regular circumstances?

Smoking sure is great, though.  Dammit!  Why must it be so awful for us!


Before you go white-knighting the gum snd patch manufacturers, please consider that 98% of smokers who attempt to quit using these two methods will be active consumers of cigarettes again within two years of the quit attempt, and they know it. They are selling snake oil.
2014-03-26 01:28:53 AM
1 votes:

vygramul: Eddy Gurge: [CSB]
Smoked 1-2 packs a day for 35 years.  Had my last Marlboro on January 30'th of this year after a scare with pneumonia from some strange bacterial infection.   I love(d) smoking and knew I'd never quit.  While in the hospital (for a week) I had my wife bring me a couple of the Blu cigs from 7-11 (used them in the bathroom in my room).  I was pleased enough with them that I had her get me a Halo starter kit for my return home. There's been no looking back.  Currently puffing on an iTaste 134 mini with a Kanger Aero Tank.  I'm not going back, and I don't hack and cough any more.  Oh, and I can breath, smell and taste.  Screw the ALA.
[/CSB]

I'd be fine if eCigs would let people know what chemicals they're using. DEG causes kidney failure and was found in some eCigs. I'm all for people putting things in their bodies... so long as they know what they're putting in their bodies. The Free Market can only work with information available to everyone in the transaction.


I know what's in my e-liquid. DEG was found, as a trace impurity, in ONE prefilled cartridge out of 100 sampled in an early FDA study.

The main ingredient in e-cig liquid is propylene glycol, which is GRAS. When inhaled, it is converted by the body to lactic acid and excreted as urine. It has been studied extensively.

The only reasons for any backlashes or bans are that e-cigs do closely resemble a product that has been proven to kill people (cigarettes) and legislation is easier than education -- especially when several large companies stand to lose the cut they've been taking by perpetuating a public health problem.
2014-03-26 01:20:28 AM
1 votes:

Cagey B: vygramul: I'd be fine if eCigs would let people know what chemicals they're using. DEG causes kidney failure and was found in some eCigs. I'm all for people putting things in their bodies... so long as they know what they're putting in their bodies. The Free Market can only work with information available to everyone in the transaction.

Yep. Go and e-cig it up. Just do it with the understanding that nicotine is toxic and that there is no meaningful regulation of what goes in these things. And don't make bullshiat claims like those in TFA that e-cigs "save lives".

Also, the fact that an advocacy group feels the need to put out a horseshiat-laden press release on the subject should probably raise a couple of red flags for people.


http://www.nationaljournal.com/magazine/is-nicotine-really-any-diffe re nt-than-caffeine-20130620
2014-03-26 01:08:15 AM
1 votes:

vygramul: Eddy Gurge: [CSB]
Smoked 1-2 packs a day for 35 years.  Had my last Marlboro on January 30'th of this year after a scare with pneumonia from some strange bacterial infection.   I love(d) smoking and knew I'd never quit.  While in the hospital (for a week) I had my wife bring me a couple of the Blu cigs from 7-11 (used them in the bathroom in my room).  I was pleased enough with them that I had her get me a Halo starter kit for my return home. There's been no looking back.  Currently puffing on an iTaste 134 mini with a Kanger Aero Tank.  I'm not going back, and I don't hack and cough any more.  Oh, and I can breath, smell and taste.  Screw the ALA.
[/CSB]

I'd be fine if eCigs would let people know what chemicals they're using. DEG causes kidney failure and was found in some eCigs. I'm all for people putting things in their bodies... so long as they know what they're putting in their bodies. The Free Market can only work with information available to everyone in the transaction.


The free market says if you're so concerned about what's in them and other people share your concern, you've got a hell of a business opportunity selling lab analyses of various ecig formulas. Just a thought.
2014-03-26 12:50:40 AM
1 votes:
I quit smoking by moving to snus and dip because theybare less harmful than cigs...even though they have their own risks

Tried a blu cig. Nevervwent back to dip OR cigs. The coffee and tobacco flavored blu cigs are farking good..no reason to ever go back to tobacco.
2014-03-26 12:48:10 AM
1 votes:

Kevin Lomax: All I know it has got to be some nefarious reason like this. It can't possibly be because they're bad for you in ways not fully understood yet. Nope, it must be some sort of conspiracy involving the highest levels of government, money laundering, the greys, and possibly Elvis.


If they keep looking, they might find a reason that they are "bad". So far, they don't have much but FUD.
2014-03-26 12:46:39 AM
1 votes:

Kuta: Typical smoker conspiracy theories.

The ALA doesn't like smoking OR e-cigs. Personally, I don't care, but I really don't like vapers puffing on public transit (i.e. BART in San Francisco). They need to be regulated. I would rejoice if they destroy big tobacco. I just don't want my kids to get hooked on easy nicotine.


Most vapers I speak or interact with on the web want regulation, so long as it is about age restrictions, and quality control.
2014-03-26 12:46:13 AM
1 votes:
All I know it has got to be some nefarious reason like this. It can't possibly be because they're bad for you in ways not fully understood yet. Nope, it must be some sort of conspiracy involving the highest levels of government, money laundering, the greys, and possibly Elvis.
2014-03-26 12:45:11 AM
1 votes:

433: I don't know how wise it is to be inhaling vegetable oil


The bolded portion should have prevented the rest.
2014-03-26 12:44:51 AM
1 votes:
Typical smoker conspiracy theories.

The ALA doesn't like smoking OR e-cigs. Personally, I don't care, but I really don't like vapers puffing on public transit (i.e. BART in San Francisco). They need to be regulated. I would rejoice if they destroy big tobacco. I just don't want my kids to get hooked on easy nicotine.
2014-03-26 12:40:54 AM
1 votes:

The My Little Pony Killer: Very interesting revelation, considering the high number of Farkers who mistakenly believe the e-cig to be a smoking cessation device.


And you consider it a ____?
2014-03-26 12:38:21 AM
1 votes:

devildog123: My FIL used to cough constantly when he had his 2 pack a day habit.  6 months into his e-cig, no more coughing.  He actually has started running, and is doing a 5K next month.  fark you ALA, e-cigs are awesome.


E-cigs are bettter than regular cigarettes, but they still will increase your risk of heart attack and stroke by a crapload. Nicotine is what does the cardiac damage in cigarettes, and as many smokers die from heart disease and stroke as lung cancer. So, if you're a nicotine addict, e-cigs are better than tobacco, but they're still not "awesome." Completely quitting, that's awesome.
2014-03-26 12:38:18 AM
1 votes:
Very interesting revelation, considering the high number of Farkers who mistakenly believe the e-cig to be a smoking cessation device.
2014-03-26 12:36:29 AM
1 votes:

HoratioGates: Adolf Oliver Nipples: "Do you understand the absurdity in what you're saying? The people who are switching to e-cigarettes are people who are no longer smoking."

Except when you watch the black and white ads with puffs of vapor, you get the funny feeling that maybe they are trying to target new smokers.


That's what I think too. In fact, the only two people that I know who vape were not smokers before they started vaping. They both went to work for vape stores/kiosks and then picked up the product and habit. Obviously two is not a huge information sample, and I don't know a lot of smokers, so it could be that I'm not hanging out with the right people to make a call on this one. But I do know for a fact that at least some people are going about it that way, from non-smoker to full time vaping, instead of using them to quit cigarettes.
2014-03-26 12:34:26 AM
1 votes:
Tried this out about two years ago and a month later I put it in a drawer and forgot about it.

Not as good as an actual cigarette (even if it is better for you. Forget about smoking them indoors, unless you are a big fan of dirty looks. Oh, and did I mention that I looked like a bozo puffing on a plastic tube.

Not for me. Although I'm sure I'll try them again someday.
2014-03-26 12:33:26 AM
1 votes:

log_jammin: rbuzby: Is E-Cigs just vaping tobacco?  That would be better than smoking it.

No I do not want to do any research. I have my own crap to deal with.

no tobacco. just nicotine.


well, nicotine, and other stuff.
2014-03-26 12:31:50 AM
1 votes:
ECigs still needs more research and studies on their effects to users and those around them.

That's all I'm saying on the subject, the usual group of deniers can pound sand.
2014-03-26 12:31:26 AM
1 votes:

rbuzby: Is E-Cigs just vaping tobacco?  That would be better than smoking it.

No I do not want to do any research. I have my own crap to deal with.


no tobacco. just nicotine.
2014-03-26 12:15:38 AM
1 votes:

doglover: What they have to do is seize the day and make official marboro juice and stuff like that.


they could recycle people's dip cups
2014-03-25 11:22:36 PM
1 votes:

Mugato: doglover: E-cigs are MUCH more profitable than tobacco. And you don't even need nicotine in them. People just want to smoke. Give them healthy(er) smoke and they'll suck it all up for as much as you can charge 'em.

Not really the same thing, The tobacco industry has a different interest.


A different interest than making money?

Seriously, vapes are the best thing to happen to them in a century. What they have to do is seize the day and make official marboro juice and stuff like that. This will normalize smoking as an activity and leave the door open to graduation to real, high end tobacco products like pipe tobacco, cigars, and stuff.

Cigarettes are really the problem. Tobacco itself ain't so bad in moderation, just like everything else.
2014-03-25 11:04:40 PM
1 votes:

Mugato: I'm surprised that the tobacco industry hasn't had everyone involved with e-cigs killed long ago.


It's the same reason Gillette didn't kill the guy who invented the disposable razor.

E-cigs are MUCH more profitable than tobacco. And you don't even need nicotine in them. People just want to smoke. Give them healthy(er) smoke and they'll suck it all up for as much as you can charge 'em.
2014-03-25 10:50:45 PM
1 votes:

AirForceVet: I don't see many electronic cigarette users quitting nicotine. Rather they use the e-cigs in places where they can't smoke.

So they're still hooked to a harmful drug and not quitting.


Right but e-cigs don't have tobacco and all the other carcinogens that regular cigarettes have.

I don't smoke at all but I know people who have quit smoking regular cigarettes because of e-cigs and it's a lot less people I have to deal with second hand smoke from.
2014-03-25 10:42:55 PM
1 votes:
I don't see many electronic cigarette users quitting nicotine. Rather they use the e-cigs in places where they can't smoke.

So they're still hooked to a harmful drug and not quitting.
2014-03-25 10:02:45 PM
1 votes:

hardinparamedic: I don't think any legitimate medical body is claiming that they are as harmful as an actual cigarettes or cigars. I think what they are doing is calling for caution and investigation into many of the claims being made.


And that's fine. I'm all for that. I think that in the end the conclusion will be that e-cigarettes will be seen as a much better alternative to smoking tobacco cigarettes. Of course, there will always be people with an interest in making them out to be the worst thing on Earth, so it could be that no consensus will ever be reached.

But this isn't just a medical issue, this is also a political issue, and those people are calling for heavy regulation and bans. That, more than anything else, is what gets me fired up. E-cigarettes are not tobacco cigarettes and should not be treated as such.
2014-03-25 10:01:12 PM
1 votes:

hardinparamedic: E-cigarettes are already showing to be of dubious actual benefit in cessation of smoking in peer reviewed studies. And the fact that many of the manufactured oil brands contain compounds known to do both lung and cardiac injury (diactyl and derivatives from flavoring, and nicotine) is enough to make someone worry about it as an informed consumer


I know I'll regret this in later comments when fully green, but...  I'm skeptical of the cessation studies for several reasons.  The main one would be, did they really want to quit?  I mean really want to. If I were asked in a study run 4 months ago, I'd say "yep, tried them a while back, they suck".  I did try one, just to see back then.  Nope not for me.  As far as oil brands, I agree.  Stay with reputable U.S. manufacturers that give you the "Nutrition Label".  There are plenty of them.  If you're buying something filled in China, or a company that won't divulge (Tru!), you are an idiot.  Nicotine, as far as I know, does not do lung injury.  Enlighten me on that one, as I may have missed that.
2014-03-25 09:45:23 PM
1 votes:

Philbb: I was also a two pack a day for 35 years etc, etc. I've been on e-cigs exclusively since mid October last year.


Rock on sir, good for you!
433 [TotalFark]
2014-03-25 09:40:10 PM
1 votes:
Thanks, hardinparamedic. I wasn't clear on that at all.

Why must it be so hard to sound genuine in forums?

I remember when Popcorn Worker's Lung first hit the radar.  It was bizarre.  I certainly hope that manufacturers of e-cig oil are following some sore of honor code.  I've read that it is best to stick to domestic oil, but even then, it's not a very bright prospect.  I think it would be wise for there to be a regulatory agency or board for oil producers, lest there be an epidemic problem down the road.

Legal marijuana poses a similar problem.  I'm curious how the Colorado/Washington experiment will unfold.  For the sake of a flamewar, though, I'm not trying to open that one up for discussion...
2014-03-25 09:28:18 PM
1 votes:

vygramul: I shouldn't hold the eCig manufacturers responsible for being transparent because what they put in eCigs can't POSSIBLY be as bad as what cigarettes do.


Actually, from a big-picture perspective, that is correct. Specifically, though, you shouldn't hold e-cigarette manufacturers responsible for anything, you should hold the e-juice manufacturers responsible. It doesn't take much investigation to find manufacturers who are completely transparent. Caveat emptor. Of course, there is no substitute for stopping completely, but the lesser of the two evils is still lesser and thus still a noble goal.

AirForceVet: Maybe because electronic cigarettes aren't good for your lungs either?


So I guess we should just ban them. We wouldn't want smokers to switch to something less destructive, would we? The state sure doesn't, they love taking in that filthy tax money and passing the health consequences onto you through insurance premiums.
433 [TotalFark]
2014-03-25 08:20:39 PM
1 votes:
Is this where I talk about my e-cigarette as if people give a shiat?
2014-03-25 08:08:24 PM
1 votes:

Cagey B: Okay, if "Minnesota Vapers Advocacy" says so.


If you follow the link and take a look at the full .pdfs Pfizer gives money to A LOT of different groups. Seriously, the 2013 report is 80 pages long. Taken as a whole the ALA grants don't really stand out all that much.
 
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