Do you have adblock enabled?
If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(MN Vapers)   Why is the American Lung Assn against e-cigs? Because one of their major donors makes money from smoking cessation drugs   (mnvapers.com) divider line 290
    More: Obvious, American Library Association, March of Dimes, Chantix, electronic cigarette, harm reduction, charity, safety concerns, smoking  
•       •       •

4591 clicks; posted to Main » on 26 Mar 2014 at 12:12 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



290 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

First | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | » | Last | Show all
 
2014-03-26 01:34:20 AM  
you now what  http://casaa.org/
 
2014-03-26 01:34:51 AM  

The more you eat the more you fart: I quit smoking by moving to snus and dip because theybare less harmful than cigs...even though they have their own risks


they're still a cancer risk.

having said that, I was able to quite all together using snus. I just started with the high nicotine ones, and lowered down to the ones with the lowest nicotine. then two weeks of the patch, and I was off of nicotine all together. made it 3 years so far.
 
2014-03-26 01:41:11 AM  
 
2014-03-26 01:41:41 AM  

433: I don't know how wise it is to be inhaling vegetable oil (or whatever) either.  Sure, you can exhale it, but plenty was left behind.  Nicotine is crazy addictive, too.  You're pledging to suck the cock of your favorite vaporizer company until you put it down for good.  I don't think a company marketing a nicotine delivery device outside of gum and patches has that many scruples.  Nicotine is not good for a body.

There are many things that are not good for a body.  Not too many of those things are addictive drugs like nicotine.

Would you be putting vegetable oil in your lungs under regular circumstances?

Smoking sure is great, though.  Dammit!  Why must it be so awful for us!


The physical addiction to nicotine only lasts 3 days... it's the psychological addiction to the smoke and the ritual that lasts for so long.

There is 0% nicotine e-cig liquid that is sold at all e-cig shops that I've frequented.
 
2014-03-26 01:43:23 AM  

433: I don't know how wise it is to be inhaling vegetable oil (or whatever) either.  Sure, you can exhale it, but plenty was left behind.  Nicotine is crazy addictive, too.  You're pledging to suck the cock of your favorite vaporizer company until you put it down for good.  I don't think a company marketing a nicotine delivery device outside of gum and patches has that many scruples.  Nicotine is not good for a body.

There are many things that are not good for a body.  Not too many of those things are addictive drugs like nicotine.

Would you be putting vegetable oil in your lungs under regular circumstances?

Smoking sure is great, though.  Dammit!  Why must it be so awful for us!


Before you go white-knighting the gum snd patch manufacturers, please consider that 98% of smokers who attempt to quit using these two methods will be active consumers of cigarettes again within two years of the quit attempt, and they know it. They are selling snake oil.
 
2014-03-26 01:47:38 AM  

hjy6: ok i like this  http://video.foxnews.com/v/3157681804001/gutfeld-the-stupidity-of-ban n ing-e-cigarettes/#sp=show-clips


It's not really water vapor. It's a kind of oil.

This guy might be the most punchable man I've ever seen on TV, but it's sad that he's somehow come down on the right side of an issue dispute being totally wrong.
 
2014-03-26 01:55:00 AM  

doglover: hjy6: ok i like this  http://video.foxnews.com/v/3157681804001/gutfeld-the-stupidity-of-ban n ing-e-cigarettes/#sp=show-clips

It's not really water vapor. It's a kind of oil.

This guy might be the most punchable man I've ever seen on TV, but it's sad that he's somehow come down on the right side of an issue dispute being totally wrong.


That "oil" (which is used in hospitals) is FDA approved so there's that - and he is not wrong about politicians - they are bought by tobacco
 
2014-03-26 01:59:20 AM  
 
2014-03-26 02:02:02 AM  

hjy6: That "oil" (which is used in hospitals) is FDA approved so there's that


FDA approved for nebulized inhalation?
 
2014-03-26 02:06:08 AM  

Enigmamf: hjy6: That "oil" (which is used in hospitals) is FDA approved so there's that

FDA approved for nebulized inhalation?


yes and used in smoke machines at the Disco
 
2014-03-26 02:07:15 AM  

Adolf Oliver Nipples: oil


hardinparamedic: 433: Would you be putting vegetable oil in your lungs under regular circumstances?

Vegetable oil is GRAS (Generally regarded as safe) unless it's in droplet concentrations. The bigger problems, from an inhalation standpoint, would be the flavoring (if it contains diactyl, acetoin, or a similar artificial flavoring). Exposure to these compounds over long terms causes "Popcorn Worker Lung", or Bronchopulmonary Obliterans, a universally fatal (without lung transplant) condition.


Why do you keep calling it oil??
The liquid you put in an e cigarette is nicotine suspended in vegetable glycerin (not an oil) and propylene glycol (not an oil) and flavour. You are literally beating up the same straw man.
 
2014-03-26 02:09:17 AM  

hardinparamedic: autopsybeverage: I can has Link to full article?

I can't even get access, and I have a SpringerLink account at work. :(


Well that sucks. :( I've been an ecig user for three years after smoking for 17... and I try to read everything I can on the topic, pro or con.
 
2014-03-26 02:09:55 AM  

fusillade762: Cagey B: Okay, if "Minnesota Vapers Advocacy" says so.

If you follow the link and take a look at the full .pdfs Pfizer gives money to A LOT of different groups. Seriously, the 2013 report is 80 pages long. Taken as a whole the ALA grants don't really stand out all that much.


Nearly a million dollars a year from just one company doesn't say much?

Personally, I'd be curious to see the ALA's 2013 incoming donations report. How many companies--pharmaceutical and tobacco--are donating how much annually? How much is being donated by other organizations that are so virulently anti-vaping? I'd be very curious to know if that report speaks more loudly to you than Pfizer's million dollar whisper does.
 
2014-03-26 02:10:33 AM  
The American Lung Association and the American Cancer Society and similar groups get a lot of their funding via cigarette taxes.

So if something like e-cigs are getting a lot of people off the cigs, they have to oppose it.  If everyone switched, their funding would be gone.

They don't care if people die, they care about their funding.

hjy6: I know that teens that vape that have NEVER smoked... which I find disturbing... what is that about??


Instead of starting to smoke, they started vaping.  Beats the hell out of smoking for several decades first, the way I did.
 
2014-03-26 02:11:09 AM  
 
2014-03-26 02:11:30 AM  

vygramul: Eddy Gurge: [CSB]
Smoked 1-2 packs a day for 35 years.  Had my last Marlboro on January 30'th of this year after a scare with pneumonia from some strange bacterial infection.   I love(d) smoking and knew I'd never quit.  While in the hospital (for a week) I had my wife bring me a couple of the Blu cigs from 7-11 (used them in the bathroom in my room).  I was pleased enough with them that I had her get me a Halo starter kit for my return home. There's been no looking back.  Currently puffing on an iTaste 134 mini with a Kanger Aero Tank.  I'm not going back, and I don't hack and cough any more.  Oh, and I can breath, smell and taste.  Screw the ALA.
[/CSB]

I'd be fine if eCigs would let people know what chemicals they're using. DEG causes kidney failure and was found in some eCigs. I'm all for people putting things in their bodies... so long as they know what they're putting in their bodies. The Free Market can only work with information available to everyone in the transaction.


I make my own e-jucies, but the majority of them ingredients that are found in store bought juices are common in most toothpastes.  Food grade vegetable glycerine, food grade polyprop. glycol, and food grade flavorings.  You can choose to add nicotine if you like.  I don't anymore.
 
2014-03-26 02:12:36 AM  
I have Green Lung.

But I will not quit the dank.
 
2014-03-26 02:14:16 AM  

Cagey B: Just do it with the understanding that nicotine is toxic and that there is no meaningful regulation of what goes in these things. And don't make bullshiat claims like those in TFA that e-cigs "save lives".


Nicotine is toxic?  That's technically true.  Given enough of it, concentrated enough, fast enough, it could kill.

But it's misleading, because in actual fact, it doesn't kill.  If you go looking for evidence of someone dying via nicotine, the only thing you'll find is a suicide. It isn't really as toxic as you are pretending.
 
2014-03-26 02:15:58 AM  

vygramul: Eddy Gurge: [CSB]
Smoked 1-2 packs a day for 35 years.  Had my last Marlboro on January 30'th of this year after a scare with pneumonia from some strange bacterial infection.   I love(d) smoking and knew I'd never quit.  While in the hospital (for a week) I had my wife bring me a couple of the Blu cigs from 7-11 (used them in the bathroom in my room).  I was pleased enough with them that I had her get me a Halo starter kit for my return home. There's been no looking back.  Currently puffing on an iTaste 134 mini with a Kanger Aero Tank.  I'm not going back, and I don't hack and cough any more.  Oh, and I can breath, smell and taste.  Screw the ALA.
[/CSB]

I'd be fine if eCigs would let people know what chemicals they're using. DEG causes kidney failure and was found in some eCigs. I'm all for people putting things in their bodies... so long as they know what they're putting in their bodies. The Free Market can only work with information available to everyone in the transaction.


The PV variety that use e-juice generally list the ingredients in the juice. The label on mine says the following: Propylene glycol (USP grade), vegetable glycerine (USP grade), flavors, water, nicotine.

The flavors in mine are apple and cinnamon red hot. Not too hard to research precisely what ingredients make up those flavors.

Propylene glycol and vegetable glycerine are in a great many foods and almost every medication on the market.

Incidentally, that is why almost no one recommends e-cigs like blu (owned by a cigarette company) or the ones you get at 7-11 and Wal-Mart--no one knows WTF the Chinese and/or the cigarette companies are putting in them. With actual personal vaporators that use a tank and juice, you know exactly what's in it.
 
2014-03-26 02:19:13 AM  

JuggleGeek: Cagey B: Just do it with the understanding that nicotine is toxic and that there is no meaningful regulation of what goes in these things. And don't make bullshiat claims like those in TFA that e-cigs "save lives".

Nicotine is toxic?  That's technically true.  Given enough of it, concentrated enough, fast enough, it could kill.

But it's misleading, because in actual fact, it doesn't kill.  If you go looking for evidence of someone dying via nicotine, the only thing you'll find is a suicide. It isn't really as toxic as you are pretending.


Yes And 6 cans of RedBull can KILL you 5 shot of Espresso can kill you ...I have NEVER seen a news report that NICOTINE Killed someone
 
2014-03-26 02:21:02 AM  

Cagey B: Okay, if "Minnesota Vapers Advocacy" says so.


Done in two.

Seriously, it's like a group of overzealous horse enthusiasts getting into a hissy fit because a guy donated money to the Safe Horsey Riding Association just because said guy once had to put a horse down.
 
2014-03-26 02:22:37 AM  

Aigoo: fusillade762: Cagey B: Okay, if "Minnesota Vapers Advocacy" says so.

If you follow the link and take a look at the full .pdfs Pfizer gives money to A LOT of different groups. Seriously, the 2013 report is 80 pages long. Taken as a whole the ALA grants don't really stand out all that much.

Nearly a million dollars a year from just one company doesn't say much?

Personally, I'd be curious to see the ALA's 2013 incoming donations report. How many companies--pharmaceutical and tobacco--are donating how much annually? How much is being donated by other organizations that are so virulently anti-vaping? I'd be very curious to know if that report speaks more loudly to you than Pfizer's million dollar whisper does.


I tried Googling that to see what percentage of the ALA's money comes from Pfizer but I couldn't find anything. Granted I only spent a few minutes on it.
 
2014-03-26 02:24:31 AM  

hardinparamedic: Oh, also? Those e-Cigs? They're not as grand as you claim they are:

From the Journal of the American Medical Association


They're also not nearly as dangerous as some people--including some doctors--would try to get people to believe: http://www.biomedcentral.com/1471-2458/14/18/

Read the entire study, including the part that indicates that there are higher concentrations of toxins in air fresheners than there are in the exhalations of vapers. The study is undergoing peer review at the moment, but Burstyn is a well-respected researcher... not that I expect the knee-jerking "save the children!" panic brigade to pay attention. But actual physicians who have read the paper seem comfortable with Burstyn's findings, which should tell folks something.
 
2014-03-26 02:25:17 AM  

devildog123: My FIL used to cough constantly when he had his 2 pack a day habit.  6 months into his e-cig, no more coughing.  He actually has started running, and is doing a 5K next month.  fark you ALA, e-cigs are awesome.


Same with me. I previously smoked 2 packs a day (insane). I usually coughed like the devil clearing out shiat... now, never.
The negative effects with smoking are due to TOBACCO, NOT NICOTINE. Research this, I dare you farkers.
Same reason why chewing tobacco sucks!
 
2014-03-26 02:25:30 AM  

Adolf Oliver Nipples: There's simply no legitimate objection to adults using e-smokes. There just isn't.


Really?  Okay, how about this:  e-cigs are nothing more than a delivery device for nicotine, yet bongs for smoking dope are illegal in many, many places.   Nicotine has no known health benefits, is highly addictive and toxic in surprisingly small quantities (infants and toddlers have died from chewing or ingesting used cig butts).  Marijuana has a large body of anecdotal health benefits, and once proper testing it allowed in the US, many of those claims (pain relief, relief for intractable epilepsy, stimulation of appetite for people doing chemo, etc.) will be proven true.  Finally, there's never been a confirmed case of someone dying of a marijuana overdose.

If we applied the same logic to e-cigs that the Gov has with marijuana, then all tobacco would be a Schedule I narcotic.

Your point should be that while nicotine (and possibly some of the other ingredients in e-cigs) is addictive and toxic, the use of e-cigs eliminates many other toxins and harmful by-products found in tobacco smoke.  That is, while we would hope everyone simply stops smoking, e-cigs appear to be less harmful that regular tobacco smoke.  It's the lesser of two evils.
 
2014-03-26 02:32:19 AM  

JuggleGeek: If everyone switched, their funding would be gone.


i.chzbgr.com
 
2014-03-26 02:33:24 AM  
YOU DO know those that are going to fustz this up for all of us ..... are the THC peeps (JERKS) using the devises to vape THC -- that is another thread
 
2014-03-26 02:35:58 AM  

hjy6: Enigmamf: hjy6: That "oil" (which is used in hospitals) is FDA approved so there's that

FDA approved for nebulized inhalation?

yes and used in smoke machines at the Disco


static.someecards.com
 
2014-03-26 02:39:34 AM  

Enigmamf: hjy6: That "oil" (which is used in hospitals) is FDA approved so there's that

FDA approved for nebulized inhalation?


Actually...yes.
 
2014-03-26 02:40:48 AM  

fusillade762: Aigoo: fusillade762: Cagey B: Okay, if "Minnesota Vapers Advocacy" says so.

If you follow the link and take a look at the full .pdfs Pfizer gives money to A LOT of different groups. Seriously, the 2013 report is 80 pages long. Taken as a whole the ALA grants don't really stand out all that much.

Nearly a million dollars a year from just one company doesn't say much?

Personally, I'd be curious to see the ALA's 2013 incoming donations report. How many companies--pharmaceutical and tobacco--are donating how much annually? How much is being donated by other organizations that are so virulently anti-vaping? I'd be very curious to know if that report speaks more loudly to you than Pfizer's million dollar whisper does.

I tried Googling that to see what percentage of the ALA's money comes from Pfizer but I couldn't find anything. Granted I only spent a few minutes on it.


I'm willing to bet that shiat is buried pretty deep. If I remember, I'll do a search for it tomorrow and see what I can come up with--mostly because now, I'm curious where the ALA's funding comes from (TFA already showed us that Pfizer gave various branches of the ALA $900k last year).
 
2014-03-26 02:43:21 AM  

Adolf Oliver Nipples: There's simply no legitimate objection to adults using e-smokes. There just isn't.


I'm not saying e-cigs or even regular cigs should be illegal, but there are certainly legitimate objections to their recreational use.

Firstly, nicotine itself is harmful.  The shape of the molecule causes damage to the circulatory system, and just about everything that increases the heart rate except exercise is bad for the heart.  I realize that alcohol also has the potential to cause harm, as does sitting around all day, and eating junk food.  Again, I'm not saying people shouldn't do these things, but I think discouraging the use of nicotine in the same ways we discourage the excessive use of alcohol and eating too much junk food is something we should encourage.  I have no qualms about people who want to use e-cigs as a smoking cessation method, but I wouldn't encourage people to take up e-cigs for recreational purposes any more than I would to take up the patch or nicotine gum for recreational purposes.  Just because they are not as harmful as normal cigarettes doesn't mean regular use won't still harm you.

Secondly, nicotine is highly addictive.  Anyone who smokes or has quit smoking can tell you how difficult it is to give up.  Any addictive drug tends to cause the addicts to divert funds from other things to their addiction, and many an ex-smoker has lamented the money wasted on cigarettes.  Becoming addicted to a drug which will influence a person's decision making is a bad thing, regardless of what drug the addiction is for.  As a society, we should be discouraging the use of nicotine in any form, except as a method for quitting nicotine.
 
2014-03-26 02:53:07 AM  

hardinparamedic: Adolf Oliver Nipples: The controversy about e-cigarettes exists not because they are harmful, but because of control.

Some people might disagree with you on that.


FTLA; Research is still in the very early stages
/ so there's that
 
2014-03-26 02:58:46 AM  
I suspect that the ALA doesn't like e-cigs because they generally think that inhaling stuff that isn't air isn't very good for you.

I tend to agree with them on that.

I smoked for about 20 years and quit about a year ago. I feel a LOT better now.
 
2014-03-26 03:01:11 AM  
"Why is the American Lung Assn against e-cigs?"

Hey subby, just an FYI: this isn't Twitter. You can write out the whole word "Association" if you like.
 
2014-03-26 03:03:11 AM  

indy_kid: Adolf Oliver Nipples: There's simply no legitimate objection to adults using e-smokes. There just isn't.

Nicotine has no known health benefits


Neurologists would like a word: http://www.webmd.com/brain/news/20120109/nicotine-patch-may-improve-m e mory-in-pre-dementia-patients

My neurologist and my GP have no problem whatsoever with me vaping. They've read all the relevant studies that do exist right now and don't believe vaping to be harmful. It is smoking cigarettes, which have 4000 chemical, 499 of which are carcinogens, that those doctors took issue with. Both have said that they'd prescribe me gum or patches for as long as I wanted because, and I quote, "nicotine, at those doses, is not at all harmful."

But I'm sure you're (the collective you, not the specific you I quoted) right and all those doctors, healthcare professionals, and researchers are all wrong and nicotine is a terribly harmful poisonous carcinogen and has no medical validity whatsoever and this neurological research (I've seen articles on research into nicotine's use for dementia, alzheimer's and parkinson's in the past year or so) is useless and shouldn't continue. Nor should there be any valid studies conducted regarding the medical efficacy of marijuana because drug companies and the medical industry's profits might suffer if people find either nicotine or marijuana to be more effective than $2000/month worth of pharmaceuticals (what you, the taxpayer, is paying via the Veterans Administration for my medication that does not work when you could be paying less than $100/month for something that actually works).

Explain to me again how government is so effective at managing what is and is not viable when their hands are so deep in the pockets of corporate America? The only regulation vapes need are age restriction (no one under 18 is permitted to purchase) and quality control. Other than that, leave it the hell alone. It's not even a secondhand smoke issue--there's nothing to smell and studies show there's nothing harmful in the exhalations, so telling people we have to go to a smoking area when that's exactly what we DON'T want to do is farking ridiculous.
 
2014-03-26 03:07:56 AM  
Those people only care about money!

(now hand me some money)
 
2014-03-26 03:08:12 AM  
Well look at it this way.

Goal:  To dose myself with nicotine.

Option 1:  Use a device that vaporizes a dilute nicotine solution (that may or may not contain other chemicals more harmful than nicotine)
Option 2:  Set fire to a roll of plant material that contains nicotine (that may or may not contain other chemicals more harmful than nicotine), and proceed to intentionally inhale the resulting smolder.
 
2014-03-26 03:21:57 AM  

hjy6: Contrary to popular belief, nicotine is not the cancer-causing agent in cigarettes.


Here I thought it might be the fine particulate, tar, and other combustion byproducts of burning plant matter that might be the main carcinogens.

/seriously, burning tobacco for the nicotine-as opposed to just because you like the taste-is about as silly as chewing on a willow branch because you really like the effects of aspirin but don't trust what the pill pushers put in their little caplets.
 
2014-03-26 03:27:45 AM  

Ishidan: Well look at it this way.

Goal:  To dose myself with nicotine.

Option 1:  Use a device that vaporizes a dilute nicotine solution (that may or may not contain other chemicals more harmful than nicotine)
Option 2:  Set fire to a roll of plant material that contains nicotine (that may or may not contain other chemicals more harmful than nicotine), and proceed to intentionally inhale the resulting smolder.


Option 3: Stick a pinch between your cheek an gum
Option 4: Put some butts in your coffee grounds
/Plenty of ways to get the nic
//Vaping MAY be the best
 
2014-03-26 03:48:57 AM  
I've finally come to the realization that the people who are most against vaping do it because they simply love being angry about something.  They've been so anti-smoking for so long that they simply can't help themselves.  There is no logic involved.  The facts about vaping are readily available and gets posted to every single e-cig thread on fark.  And are promptly ignored or dismissed.

How about you get your panting in a twist about something important and get the fark out of my life.
 
2014-03-26 03:49:28 AM  

wavion: I honestly don't give a fark what other people put in their own bodies.  But, as a PSA, the vast majority of smoking-related illness/death isn't lung cancer/emphysema/etc.  It's heart disease caused from years of stimulant use (nicotine).  e-cigs won't prevent your heart attack.  On the other hand, as a non-smoker, I love e-cigs, since I don't have to breathe other people's smoke - I really appreciate the courtesy.  So, yeah, good luck with that.


The studies that claim nicotine damages the heart do so based on observation of a symptom linked to a disease. E.g. nicotine causes increased blood pressure which is linked to cardiovascular damage therefore nicotine use over long periods could increase risk of heart disease. Meanwhile, long term studies on users of nrt, snus, snuff etc have found no difference in cardiovascular problems between users and non users. Your ecig may not prevent your heart attack, but I'll bet it won't contribute to it.
 
2014-03-26 03:58:52 AM  

sjcousins: wavion: I honestly don't give a fark what other people put in their own bodies.  But, as a PSA, the vast majority of smoking-related illness/death isn't lung cancer/emphysema/etc.  It's heart disease caused from years of stimulant use (nicotine).  e-cigs won't prevent your heart attack.  On the other hand, as a non-smoker, I love e-cigs, since I don't have to breathe other people's smoke - I really appreciate the courtesy.  So, yeah, good luck with that.

The studies that claim nicotine damages the heart do so based on observation of a symptom linked to a disease. E.g. nicotine causes increased blood pressure which is linked to cardiovascular damage therefore nicotine use over long periods could increase risk of heart disease. Meanwhile, long term studies on users of nrt, snus, snuff etc have found no difference in cardiovascular problems between users and non users. Your ecig may not prevent your heart attack, but I'll bet it won't contribute to it.


Overworking your heart over a long period of time by whatever means (obesity, stimulants, etc) leads to premature heart failure/heart attacks/etc.  This is basic science and common sense.
 
2014-03-26 04:08:30 AM  

wavion: sjcousins: wavion: I honestly don't give a fark what other people put in their own bodies.  But, as a PSA, the vast majority of smoking-related illness/death isn't lung cancer/emphysema/etc.  It's heart disease caused from years of stimulant use (nicotine).  e-cigs won't prevent your heart attack.  On the other hand, as a non-smoker, I love e-cigs, since I don't have to breathe other people's smoke - I really appreciate the courtesy.  So, yeah, good luck with that.

The studies that claim nicotine damages the heart do so based on observation of a symptom linked to a disease. E.g. nicotine causes increased blood pressure which is linked to cardiovascular damage therefore nicotine use over long periods could increase risk of heart disease. Meanwhile, long term studies on users of nrt, snus, snuff etc have found no difference in cardiovascular problems between users and non users. Your ecig may not prevent your heart attack, but I'll bet it won't contribute to it.

Overworking your heart over a long period of time by whatever means (obesity, stimulants, etc) leads to premature heart failure/heart attacks/etc.  This is basic science and common sense.


Yet if it doesn't show up in epidemiology you can pretty much call bs on it... And I agree, what you describe is incredibly basic science. Science works on observation, not 'common sense'.
 
2014-03-26 04:17:28 AM  

sjcousins: wavion: sjcousins: wavion: I honestly don't give a fark what other people put in their own bodies.  But, as a PSA, the vast majority of smoking-related illness/death isn't lung cancer/emphysema/etc.  It's heart disease caused from years of stimulant use (nicotine).  e-cigs won't prevent your heart attack.  On the other hand, as a non-smoker, I love e-cigs, since I don't have to breathe other people's smoke - I really appreciate the courtesy.  So, yeah, good luck with that.

The studies that claim nicotine damages the heart do so based on observation of a symptom linked to a disease. E.g. nicotine causes increased blood pressure which is linked to cardiovascular damage therefore nicotine use over long periods could increase risk of heart disease. Meanwhile, long term studies on users of nrt, snus, snuff etc have found no difference in cardiovascular problems between users and non users. Your ecig may not prevent your heart attack, but I'll bet it won't contribute to it.

Overworking your heart over a long period of time by whatever means (obesity, stimulants, etc) leads to premature heart failure/heart attacks/etc.  This is basic science and common sense.

Yet if it doesn't show up in epidemiology you can pretty much call bs on it... And I agree, what you describe is incredibly basic science. Science works on observation, not 'common sense'.


I gave you a "funny" vote, since epidemiology is the study of epidemics (large scale infectious disease).  Last time I checked, heart disease isn't contagious.
 
2014-03-26 04:28:21 AM  
I get real tired of the e-cig hate from so many influential groups. I'm not a smoker, and I'm sure not starting because of e-cigs, but it seems to me they are far better for everyone, smokers and non-smokers, than normal cigarettes. Yes, it still needs to be noted they aren't good for you and you shouldn't start smoking (if for no other reason then it is damn expensive). However if you do smoke, then they are a really good alternative. Less harmful to the smoker, less harmful to others and they don't stink up the place.
 
2014-03-26 04:29:26 AM  

sjcousins: Yet if it doesn't show up in epidemiology you can pretty much call bs on it... And I agree, what you describe is incredibly basic science. Science works on observation, not 'common sense'.


Yeah, about that.

From the British Medical Journal, 2009:  An association was detected between use of smokeless tobacco products and risk of fatal myocardial infarction and stroke, which does not seem to be explained by chance.

From the Journal of the American Heart and Stroke Association: Circulation, 2010: As reviewed in this statement, there is evidence that long-term ST product use may be associated with a modest risk of fatal myocardial infarction (MI) and fatal stroke, suggesting that ST product use may complicate or reduce the chance for survival after a MI or stroke.

From Epidemiology (Your source you demanded), 2008: Snuff use may elevate the risk of fatal stroke, and particularly of fatal ischemic stroke.

And from Sweeden.....

So please. Do go on. And tell us more about how nicotine alone isn't linked with cardiovascular disease.
 
2014-03-26 04:30:57 AM  

wavion: I gave you a "funny" vote, since epidemiology is the study of epidemics (large scale infectious disease).  Last time I checked, heart disease isn't contagious.


Myocarditis, a form of heart disease, is predominately caused by a viral infection.
 
2014-03-26 04:30:58 AM  
Sorry. Let me retry linking this.

Impact of Smokeless Tobacco Products on Cardiovascular Disease: Implications for Policy, Prevention, and Treatment
A Policy Statement From the American Heart Association

https://circ.ahajournals.org/content/122/15/1520.full

Although evidence is consistent with the suggestion that the cardiovascular risks are lower with ST products compared with cigarette smoking, ST products are not without harm. As reviewed in this statement, there is evidence that long-term ST product use may be associated with a modest risk of fatal myocardial infarction (MI) and fatal stroke, suggesting that ST product use may complicate or reduce the chance for survival after a MI or stroke. In addition, there is inadequate evidence to support the use of ST products as a smoking cessation strategy. Based on the findings reviewed in this statement, clinicians should continue to discourage use of all tobacco products and emphasize prevention of smoking initiation and smoking cessation as primary goals for tobacco control
 
2014-03-26 04:33:25 AM  

Hiro-ACiD: wavion: I gave you a "funny" vote, since epidemiology is the study of epidemics (large scale infectious disease).  Last time I checked, heart disease isn't contagious.

Myocarditis, a form of heart disease, is predominately caused by a viral infection.


I like your style. :)

But, we both know that's not the kind of "heart disease" I was talking about.
 
2014-03-26 04:34:34 AM  

wavion: sjcousins: wavion: sjcousins: wavion: I honestly don't give a fark what other people put in their own bodies.  But, as a PSA, the vast majority of smoking-related illness/death isn't lung cancer/emphysema/etc.  It's heart disease caused from years of stimulant use (nicotine).  e-cigs won't prevent your heart attack.  On the other hand, as a non-smoker, I love e-cigs, since I don't have to breathe other people's smoke - I really appreciate the courtesy.  So, yeah, good luck with that.

The studies that claim nicotine damages the heart do so based on observation of a symptom linked to a disease. E.g. nicotine causes increased blood pressure which is linked to cardiovascular damage therefore nicotine use over long periods could increase risk of heart disease. Meanwhile, long term studies on users of nrt, snus, snuff etc have found no difference in cardiovascular problems between users and non users. Your ecig may not prevent your heart attack, but I'll bet it won't contribute to it.

Overworking your heart over a long period of time by whatever means (obesity, stimulants, etc) leads to premature heart failure/heart attacks/etc.  This is basic science and common sense.

Yet if it doesn't show up in epidemiology you can pretty much call bs on it... And I agree, what you describe is incredibly basic science. Science works on observation, not 'common sense'.

I gave you a "funny" vote, since epidemiology is the study of epidemics (large scale infectious disease).  Last time I checked, heart disease isn't contagious.


Notsureifserious.jpg
You might want to look that word up again champ.
 
Displayed 50 of 290 comments

First | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | » | Last | Show all

View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


This thread is closed to new comments.

Continue Farking
Submit a Link »
Advertisement
On Twitter





In Other Media


  1. Links are submitted by members of the Fark community.

  2. When community members submit a link, they also write a custom headline for the story.

  3. Other Farkers comment on the links. This is the number of comments. Click here to read them.

  4. Click here to submit a link.

Report