If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(MN Vapers)   Why is the American Lung Assn against e-cigs? Because one of their major donors makes money from smoking cessation drugs   (mnvapers.com) divider line 300
    More: Obvious, American Library Association, March of Dimes, Chantix, electronic cigarette, harm reduction, charity, safety concerns, smoking  
•       •       •

4559 clicks; posted to Main » on 26 Mar 2014 at 12:12 AM (17 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



300 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

First | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | » | Last | Show all
 
2014-03-25 06:48:35 PM
My FIL used to cough constantly when he had his 2 pack a day habit.  6 months into his e-cig, no more coughing.  He actually has started running, and is doing a 5K next month.  fark you ALA, e-cigs are awesome.
 
2014-03-25 07:50:19 PM
Okay, if "Minnesota Vapers Advocacy" says so.
 
2014-03-25 08:07:07 PM
But e-cigs isn't about quitting smoking; it's about taking our freedom back.  That dwarf Doorf said so.
 
2014-03-25 08:08:24 PM

Cagey B: Okay, if "Minnesota Vapers Advocacy" says so.


If you follow the link and take a look at the full .pdfs Pfizer gives money to A LOT of different groups. Seriously, the 2013 report is 80 pages long. Taken as a whole the ALA grants don't really stand out all that much.
 
2014-03-25 08:11:11 PM
[CSB]
Smoked 1-2 packs a day for 35 years.  Had my last Marlboro on January 30'th of this year after a scare with pneumonia from some strange bacterial infection.   I love(d) smoking and knew I'd never quit.  While in the hospital (for a week) I had my wife bring me a couple of the Blu cigs from 7-11 (used them in the bathroom in my room).  I was pleased enough with them that I had her get me a Halo starter kit for my return home. There's been no looking back.  Currently puffing on an iTaste 134 mini with a Kanger Aero Tank.  I'm not going back, and I don't hack and cough any more.  Oh, and I can breath, smell and taste.  Screw the ALA.
[/CSB]
 
2014-03-25 08:14:10 PM

Eddy Gurge: [CSB]
Smoked 1-2 packs a day for 35 years.  Had my last Marlboro on January 30'th of this year after a scare with pneumonia from some strange bacterial infection.   I love(d) smoking and knew I'd never quit.  While in the hospital (for a week) I had my wife bring me a couple of the Blu cigs from 7-11 (used them in the bathroom in my room).  I was pleased enough with them that I had her get me a Halo starter kit for my return home. There's been no looking back.  Currently puffing on an iTaste 134 mini with a Kanger Aero Tank.  I'm not going back, and I don't hack and cough any more.  Oh, and I can breath, smell and taste.  Screw the ALA.
[/CSB]


I'd be fine if eCigs would let people know what chemicals they're using. DEG causes kidney failure and was found in some eCigs. I'm all for people putting things in their bodies... so long as they know what they're putting in their bodies. The Free Market can only work with information available to everyone in the transaction.
 
2014-03-25 08:15:32 PM
The profit motive doesn't make any sense here. Members of the American Lung Association, primarily Physicians and their practice employees, stand to make BILLIONS from people from the harm caused by cigarette smoking, tobacco use, second-hand smoke, and even e-cigarettes.

COPD alone cost 49.9 billion dollars in direct and indirect healthcare costs from patients in 2010. In addition, these are patients who will be spending that money for the rest of their natural life, not just for even a few years with smoking cessation aids.

This is nothing but a rehashing of the "Pharma Profit Gambit" that clogs up the intertubes.
 
2014-03-25 08:17:12 PM

vygramul: I'd be fine if eCigs would let people know what chemicals they're using


I am particular about where I get my juice.  I settled on 100% VG, 12mg on the nicotine, and typically some kind of fruit flavor, which I would have laughed at 3 months ago.
 
2014-03-25 08:20:17 PM

vygramul: I'd be fine if eCigs would let people know what chemicals they're using. DEG causes kidney failure and was found in some eCigs. I'm all for people putting things in their bodies... so long as they know what they're putting in their bodies. The Free Market can only work with information available to everyone in the transaction.


Yep. Go and e-cig it up. Just do it with the understanding that nicotine is toxic and that there is no meaningful regulation of what goes in these things. And don't make bullshiat claims like those in TFA that e-cigs "save lives".

Also, the fact that an advocacy group feels the need to put out a horseshiat-laden press release on the subject should probably raise a couple of red flags for people.
 
433 [TotalFark]
2014-03-25 08:20:39 PM
Is this where I talk about my e-cigarette as if people give a shiat?
 
2014-03-25 08:26:57 PM
Oh, also? Those e-Cigs? They're not as grand as you claim they are:

From the Journal of the American Medical Association
 
2014-03-25 08:36:23 PM

vygramul: Eddy Gurge: [CSB]
Smoked 1-2 packs a day for 35 years.  Had my last Marlboro on January 30'th of this year after a scare with pneumonia from some strange bacterial infection.   I love(d) smoking and knew I'd never quit.  While in the hospital (for a week) I had my wife bring me a couple of the Blu cigs from 7-11 (used them in the bathroom in my room).  I was pleased enough with them that I had her get me a Halo starter kit for my return home. There's been no looking back.  Currently puffing on an iTaste 134 mini with a Kanger Aero Tank.  I'm not going back, and I don't hack and cough any more.  Oh, and I can breath, smell and taste.  Screw the ALA.
[/CSB]

I'd be fine if eCigs would let people know what chemicals they're using. DEG causes kidney failure and was found in some eCigs. I'm all for people putting things in their bodies... so long as they know what they're putting in their bodies. The Free Market can only work with information available to everyone in the transaction.


Do you understand the absurdity in what you're saying? The people who are switching to e-cigarettes are people who are no longer smoking. There are so many carcinogenic compounds in cigarettes that dismissing e-cigarettes because of some potential health hazard utterly misses the point. Furthermore, if you don't deal with Big Tobacco to get your e-cigarettes, they tell you exactly what is in them. The people I deal with use propylene glycol, vegetable glycerin, nicotine extract, and a flavor compound, ingredients on demand, no secrets kept.

The controversy about e-cigarettes exists not because they are harmful, but because of control. It's the same impulse that causes people to get involved in your sex life, or what you eat. A healthy dose of anti-smoking vengeance is included, the whole "we had to deal with you smokers for years, now it's OUR turn!" nonsense. People are demonstrably using e-cigarettes to get off the cancer sticks, they are becoming healthier by the day, and the alleged smell isn't even remotely as cloying as a typical person's deodorant/cologne/perfume and should be deemed a welcome trade-off for people coming back in to work smelling of cigarette smoke or making you smell like ass when you're out and about.

There's simply no legitimate objection to adults using e-smokes. There just isn't.
 
2014-03-25 08:54:46 PM

Adolf Oliver Nipples: The controversy about e-cigarettes exists not because they are harmful, but because of control.


Some people might disagree with you on that.
 
2014-03-25 08:59:07 PM

Adolf Oliver Nipples: Do you understand the absurdity in what you're saying? The people who are switching to e-cigarettes are people who are no longer smoking. There are so many carcinogenic compounds in cigarettes that dismissing e-cigarettes because of some potential health hazard utterly misses the point. Furthermore, if you don't deal with Big Tobacco to get your e-cigarettes, they tell you exactly what is in them. The people I deal with use propylene glycol, vegetable glycerin, nicotine extract, and a flavor compound, ingredients on demand, no secrets kept.

The controversy about e-cigarettes exists not because they are harmful, but because of control. It's the same impulse that causes people to get involved in your sex life, or what you eat. A healthy dose of anti-smoking vengeance is included, the whole "we had to deal with you smokers for years, now it's OUR turn!" nonsense. People are demonstrably using e-cigarettes to get off the cancer sticks, they are becoming healthier by the day, and the alleged smell isn't even remotely as cloying as a typical person's deodorant/cologne/perfume and should be deemed a welcome trade-off for people coming back in to work smelling of cigarette smoke or making you smell like ass when you're out and about.

There's simply no legitimate objection to adults using e-smokes. There just isn't.


You need to step back for a moment and think about the absurdity in what you're saying.

I shouldn't hold the eCig manufacturers responsible for being transparent because what they put in eCigs can't POSSIBLY be as bad as what cigarettes do.

That's like my telling you you shouldn't hate the TSA because the NSA is way worse.
 
2014-03-25 09:15:08 PM
Maybe because electronic cigarettes aren't good for your lungs either?
 
433 [TotalFark]
2014-03-25 09:22:04 PM
I don't know how wise it is to be inhaling vegetable oil (or whatever) either.  Sure, you can exhale it, but plenty was left behind.  Nicotine is crazy addictive, too.  You're pledging to suck the cock of your favorite vaporizer company until you put it down for good.  I don't think a company marketing a nicotine delivery device outside of gum and patches has that many scruples.  Nicotine is not good for a body.

There are many things that are not good for a body.  Not too many of those things are addictive drugs like nicotine.

Would you be putting vegetable oil in your lungs under regular circumstances?

Smoking sure is great, though.  Dammit!  Why must it be so awful for us!
 
2014-03-25 09:28:18 PM

vygramul: I shouldn't hold the eCig manufacturers responsible for being transparent because what they put in eCigs can't POSSIBLY be as bad as what cigarettes do.


Actually, from a big-picture perspective, that is correct. Specifically, though, you shouldn't hold e-cigarette manufacturers responsible for anything, you should hold the e-juice manufacturers responsible. It doesn't take much investigation to find manufacturers who are completely transparent. Caveat emptor. Of course, there is no substitute for stopping completely, but the lesser of the two evils is still lesser and thus still a noble goal.

AirForceVet: Maybe because electronic cigarettes aren't good for your lungs either?


So I guess we should just ban them. We wouldn't want smokers to switch to something less destructive, would we? The state sure doesn't, they love taking in that filthy tax money and passing the health consequences onto you through insurance premiums.
 
2014-03-25 09:30:37 PM

433: Would you be putting vegetable oil in your lungs under regular circumstances?


Vegetable oil is GRAS (Generally regarded as safe) unless it's in droplet concentrations. The bigger problems, from an inhalation standpoint, would be the flavoring (if it contains diactyl, acetoin, or a similar artificial flavoring). Exposure to these compounds over long terms causes "Popcorn Worker Lung", or Bronchopulmonary Obliterans, a universally fatal (without lung transplant) condition.
 
2014-03-25 09:31:15 PM

433: Would you be putting vegetable oil in your lungs under regular circumstances?


You do it every day. It's called "cooking". Those smells you love in your favorite restaurant? Yep, all kinds of volatile compounds, not the least of which is the oil it was cooked in.
 
2014-03-25 09:32:50 PM

Adolf Oliver Nipples: So I guess we should just ban them.


I like how anyone saying anything negative about Our Sainted e-Cigs is in favor of banning them, even though no one has said that. You're one of those people who think being criticized is a violation of your right to free speech, aren't you?
 
2014-03-25 09:34:32 PM

Adolf Oliver Nipples: You do it every day. It's called "cooking". Those smells you love in your favorite restaurant? Yep, all kinds of volatile compounds, not the least of which is the oil it was cooked in.


people.virginia.edu

Paracelsus frowns on your post. Vaporized oils directly from a nozzle in your mouth inhaled into your lungs is quite different from the chance a small amount of oil might accompany steam from a skillet.
 
2014-03-25 09:35:57 PM

Adolf Oliver Nipples: The state sure doesn't, they love taking in that filthy tax money and passing the health consequences onto you through insurance premiums.


Between this, and the smoking cessation patch/pill manufacturers, that about sums it up right now.  While milk isn't necessarily good for an adult, I'll have a glass here and there.  I don't care if the cup is made in China, but I sure as hell care where the milk comes from.
 
2014-03-25 09:37:25 PM

Cagey B: Adolf Oliver Nipples: So I guess we should just ban them.

I like how anyone saying anything negative about Our Sainted e-Cigs is in favor of banning them, even though no one has said that. You're one of those people who think being criticized is a violation of your right to free speech, aren't you?


No, I'm not. But that's the endgame, isn't it? Set the stage by creating an atmosphere of doubt, intimate that they are just as hazardous as that which they are replacing, and then regulate them out of existence. The product may be different but the playbook is the same.
 
2014-03-25 09:39:10 PM

Adolf Oliver Nipples: intimate that they are just as hazardous as that which they are replacing, and then regulate them out of existence.


Who, exactly, has said this?
 
433 [TotalFark]
2014-03-25 09:40:10 PM
Thanks, hardinparamedic. I wasn't clear on that at all.

Why must it be so hard to sound genuine in forums?

I remember when Popcorn Worker's Lung first hit the radar.  It was bizarre.  I certainly hope that manufacturers of e-cig oil are following some sore of honor code.  I've read that it is best to stick to domestic oil, but even then, it's not a very bright prospect.  I think it would be wise for there to be a regulatory agency or board for oil producers, lest there be an epidemic problem down the road.

Legal marijuana poses a similar problem.  I'm curious how the Colorado/Washington experiment will unfold.  For the sake of a flamewar, though, I'm not trying to open that one up for discussion...
 
2014-03-25 09:40:21 PM

hardinparamedic: Paracelsus frowns on your post. Vaporized oils directly from a nozzle in your mouth inhaled into your lungs is quite different from the chance a small amount of oil might accompany steam from a skillet.


You have never worked in a restaurant, I take it. Want to see something scary? Pull off a wall covering, something that's been mounted on the wall for a few years. The contrast between that and the rest of the wall will blow your mind.

The air is thick with cooking oil. A little bit? A hell of a lot more than you might imagine.
 
2014-03-25 09:41:10 PM
I was also a two pack a day for 35 years etc, etc. I've been on e-cigs exclusively since mid October last year.

Many people use e-cigs to help quit or cut back on cigarettes. However, the e-cig proponents almost always point out the fact that they aren't for smoking cessation. They're still working to get FDA approval for that.

E-cigs have far fewer harmful substances than regular cigarettes do. I can understand why more research should be done regarding long term usage, but this alone strongly indicates that vaping is far less harmful than smoking. The user also has control over what goes into the juice they use, smokers don't have much choice at all.

E-cigs are usually much less expensive than regular cigarettes. I'm saving over $200 a month vaping instead of smoking. I'm sure that, over time, the various governments will start applying sin taxes. But until then the savings are significant.

All in all, I don't see what the argument is about.
 
2014-03-25 09:45:23 PM

Philbb: I was also a two pack a day for 35 years etc, etc. I've been on e-cigs exclusively since mid October last year.


Rock on sir, good for you!
 
2014-03-25 09:47:04 PM

hardinparamedic: Adolf Oliver Nipples: intimate that they are just as hazardous as that which they are replacing, and then regulate them out of existence.

Who, exactly, has said this?


STUDY IT OUT SHEEPLE
 
2014-03-25 09:49:06 PM

Adolf Oliver Nipples: You have never worked in a restaurant, I take it. Want to see something scary? Pull off a wall covering, something that's been mounted on the wall for a few years. The contrast between that and the rest of the wall will blow your mind.

The air is thick with cooking oil. A little bit? A hell of a lot more than you might imagine.


Not really, no. My mother managed a restaurant for Marriot for almost twenty years. Most people don't stand directly under the oil and take nice, big lung inflating breaths, was my point  AON. 

E-cigarettes are already showing to be of dubious actual benefit in cessation of smoking in peer reviewed studies. And the fact that many of the manufactured oil brands contain compounds known to do both lung and cardiac injury (diactyl and derivatives from flavoring, and nicotine) is enough to make someone worry about it as an informed consumer.

I don't think any legitimate medical body is claiming that they are as harmful as an actual cigarettes or cigars. I think what they are doing is calling for caution and investigation into many of the claims being made.
 
2014-03-25 10:01:12 PM

hardinparamedic: E-cigarettes are already showing to be of dubious actual benefit in cessation of smoking in peer reviewed studies. And the fact that many of the manufactured oil brands contain compounds known to do both lung and cardiac injury (diactyl and derivatives from flavoring, and nicotine) is enough to make someone worry about it as an informed consumer


I know I'll regret this in later comments when fully green, but...  I'm skeptical of the cessation studies for several reasons.  The main one would be, did they really want to quit?  I mean really want to. If I were asked in a study run 4 months ago, I'd say "yep, tried them a while back, they suck".  I did try one, just to see back then.  Nope not for me.  As far as oil brands, I agree.  Stay with reputable U.S. manufacturers that give you the "Nutrition Label".  There are plenty of them.  If you're buying something filled in China, or a company that won't divulge (Tru!), you are an idiot.  Nicotine, as far as I know, does not do lung injury.  Enlighten me on that one, as I may have missed that.
 
2014-03-25 10:02:45 PM

hardinparamedic: I don't think any legitimate medical body is claiming that they are as harmful as an actual cigarettes or cigars. I think what they are doing is calling for caution and investigation into many of the claims being made.


And that's fine. I'm all for that. I think that in the end the conclusion will be that e-cigarettes will be seen as a much better alternative to smoking tobacco cigarettes. Of course, there will always be people with an interest in making them out to be the worst thing on Earth, so it could be that no consensus will ever be reached.

But this isn't just a medical issue, this is also a political issue, and those people are calling for heavy regulation and bans. That, more than anything else, is what gets me fired up. E-cigarettes are not tobacco cigarettes and should not be treated as such.
 
2014-03-25 10:03:19 PM

Prey4reign: dwarf Doorf


try saying that fast six times
 
2014-03-25 10:18:38 PM
Oh well, I'm out for the night.  Hope this one doesn't devolve into...never mind, Fark.
 
2014-03-25 10:19:42 PM

Eddy Gurge: 'm skeptical of the cessation studies for several reasons.  The main one would be, did they really want to quit?  I mean really want to. If I were asked in a study run 4 months ago, I'd say "yep, tried them a while back, they suck".  I did try one, just to see back then.  Nope not for me


The JAMA study was JUST published, so I'm going to see if I can pull it up on SpringerLink using my work intranet and get the whole text of the study's methodology. I would think that they would have controlled for that.
 
2014-03-25 10:23:31 PM
The American Lung Assassin
 
2014-03-25 10:33:16 PM
I'm surprised that the tobacco industry hasn't had everyone involved with e-cigs killed long ago.
 
2014-03-25 10:42:55 PM
I don't see many electronic cigarette users quitting nicotine. Rather they use the e-cigs in places where they can't smoke.

So they're still hooked to a harmful drug and not quitting.
 
2014-03-25 10:50:45 PM

AirForceVet: I don't see many electronic cigarette users quitting nicotine. Rather they use the e-cigs in places where they can't smoke.

So they're still hooked to a harmful drug and not quitting.


Right but e-cigs don't have tobacco and all the other carcinogens that regular cigarettes have.

I don't smoke at all but I know people who have quit smoking regular cigarettes because of e-cigs and it's a lot less people I have to deal with second hand smoke from.
 
2014-03-25 10:55:06 PM

AirForceVet: I don't see many electronic cigarette users quitting nicotine. Rather they use the e-cigs in places where they can't smoke.

So they're still hooked to a harmful drug and not quitting.


I don't know about "many", but my anecdotal evidence (which is a kind of evidence after all) is that some of the people I know that have switched have then found it much easier to cut down, first by reducing the amount of nicotine in their juice, then cutting it out completely until they're just smoking flavor.
 
2014-03-25 11:04:40 PM

Mugato: I'm surprised that the tobacco industry hasn't had everyone involved with e-cigs killed long ago.


It's the same reason Gillette didn't kill the guy who invented the disposable razor.

E-cigs are MUCH more profitable than tobacco. And you don't even need nicotine in them. People just want to smoke. Give them healthy(er) smoke and they'll suck it all up for as much as you can charge 'em.
 
2014-03-25 11:11:38 PM

doglover: E-cigs are MUCH more profitable than tobacco. And you don't even need nicotine in them. People just want to smoke. Give them healthy(er) smoke and they'll suck it all up for as much as you can charge 'em.


Not really the same thing, The tobacco industry has a different interest.
 
2014-03-25 11:12:40 PM

AirForceVet: I don't see many electronic cigarette users quitting nicotine. Rather they use the e-cigs in places where they can't smoke.

So they're still hooked to a harmful drug and not quitting.


I quit smoking entirely, then reduced the nicotine to 0. In about 4-5 months.

So, while it might not have been more statistically effective than just quitting cold, it helped me, because God knows I tried quitting. Didn't want to start either, but for a stupid roommate. I got enough second-hand smoke to give me headaches if I didn't smoke.

I don't think anyone who vapes would be averse to research on the safety of vaporized vegetable glycerin, PG, or various other additives. I think what they're averse to is the recent onslaught of proposed legislation and talking heads beating on about how it's far more dangerous than smoking. Who wouldn't get a tad defensive of the happy thing that got them off of gawdawful tobacco?
 
2014-03-25 11:22:36 PM

Mugato: doglover: E-cigs are MUCH more profitable than tobacco. And you don't even need nicotine in them. People just want to smoke. Give them healthy(er) smoke and they'll suck it all up for as much as you can charge 'em.

Not really the same thing, The tobacco industry has a different interest.


A different interest than making money?

Seriously, vapes are the best thing to happen to them in a century. What they have to do is seize the day and make official marboro juice and stuff like that. This will normalize smoking as an activity and leave the door open to graduation to real, high end tobacco products like pipe tobacco, cigars, and stuff.

Cigarettes are really the problem. Tobacco itself ain't so bad in moderation, just like everything else.
 
2014-03-25 11:43:27 PM
Telling other people that they can't or shouldn't do something is a very profitable industry in the US.  Thank God money equals speech.
 
433 [TotalFark]
2014-03-26 12:08:52 AM
e-cigs are a gateway to cigarettes.  Kids are going to puff on an e-cig or a vaporizer and get curious about the real deal.  All it needs is big tobacco getting their shiat in gear to have their hands in all the pockets again.  A marlboro man made by vaporizing is as good as one made through conventional cigarettes.
 
2014-03-26 12:15:36 AM
threadjack
 
2014-03-26 12:15:38 AM

doglover: What they have to do is seize the day and make official marboro juice and stuff like that.


they could recycle people's dip cups
 
2014-03-26 12:16:02 AM

Eddy Gurge: [CSB]
Smoked 1-2 packs a day for 35 years.  Had my last Marlboro on January 30'th of this year after a scare with pneumonia from some strange bacterial infection.   I love(d) smoking and knew I'd never quit.  While in the hospital (for a week) I had my wife bring me a couple of the Blu cigs from 7-11 (used them in the bathroom in my room).  I was pleased enough with them that I had her get me a Halo starter kit for my return home. There's been no looking back.  Currently puffing on an iTaste 134 mini with a Kanger Aero Tank.  I'm not going back, and I don't hack and cough any more.  Oh, and I can breath, smell and taste.  Screw the ALA.
[/CSB]


From Lung disease to a new disease. If you use that shait as much as you did cigarettes you'll have other problems. I know the article is about the ALA and Lung Cancer, but you are niave if you think this is some magic cure. You won't get the effects but those kids starting at 18 will.

/I know, who cares about them amiright!
 
2014-03-26 12:17:10 AM
The ALA doesn't like e-cigs because people who use them quit smoking. Healthy people don't need an ALA.
 
Displayed 50 of 300 comments

First | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | » | Last | Show all

View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


This thread is closed to new comments.

Continue Farking
Submit a Link »






Report