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(Torrent Freak)   Florida judge rules that IP addresses are not equivalent to social security numbers   (torrentfreak.com ) divider line
    More: Obvious, Internet Provider, IP addresses  
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6631 clicks; posted to Main » on 25 Mar 2014 at 1:14 PM (2 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-03-25 12:48:24 PM  
3 votes:

Theaetetus: And they even provide their ID, in the form of a MAC address. And, even better than the car, your router can log each and every packet to/from that NATed IP or MAC address


MAC addresses can be spoofed.
2014-03-25 01:42:24 PM  
2 votes:

Theaetetus: Pfff, anyone  can detect if their wifi is being hijacked. Most people don't bother looking or don't know how.


Anyone can perform open heart surgery. Most people don't know how.
2014-03-25 01:26:25 PM  
2 votes:
obligatory

img.fark.net
2014-03-25 12:38:27 PM  
2 votes:
Some one hacked my wireless network and downloaded infringing material.

Really.

Honestly.

Prove it didn't happen!

Plus, there is like, 20 people that know my password and use it.
2014-03-25 11:54:30 AM  
2 votes:

ZAZ: The judge dismissed for improper venue, ruling that proving that an act took place in her district does not prove that the act took place in her district.


Geolocation information isn't reliable. Due to the VPN I'm on, the Interwebs think that I'm in Wisconsin, not Boston.

But that said, while this may look like a win for pirates privacy and freedom advocates, it only is in the short term... There are numerous cases coming out this way that are going to lead to one of two things: either ISPs will start including a line in the ToS that you agree that you are responsible for any infringing activity occurring over your connection and waive any arguments that you are not the infringer, or Congress will amend the copyright act to state that an IP address is prima facie evidence of an identity of an infringer, that can be rebutted only by an affidavit identifying the actual infringer. The latter has appeared in red-light camera statutes, where the owner of the car is responsible for the ticket, even if they weren't driving, unless they identify the person who was driving.

Simply put, the copyright lobby is not going to throw their hands up and say "gosh, pirates, you win because of this one legal loophole."
2014-03-25 07:52:32 PM  
1 vote:

mayIFark: JackieRabbit: Good ruling, since IP addresses for most users of the internet are assigned by their IPS's DHCP server and a lease on the address can last only as long as the user is logged onto the computer.

Not true. I don't believe ISP's use DHCP, but even if they do, your computer never logs on to that. It is your modem that does, and that is always on. Even if you turn off your modem, it will take a few days before that IP gets reassigned.


For many cable companies, modems usually receive a rfc1918 address. Connected hosts receive a public and it is assigned to that hosts mac (not the modems). This assignment is logged for abuse investigations including piracy.

You can get a static mapping setup to a host and have dhcp disabled.. meaning only that specific host will recieve a (the) ip. Done in this manner a hacker busting into your wireless will find himself high and dry unless he knows to ghost his machines mac to appear as the statically mapped host on isp dhcp server. Still vry much doable, just one more hurdle. Which is what most security comes down to.

There is rarely a question of not just what ip was used for the abuse, but even what specific device was the offendrr.

This doesnt change the fact that unless youve established by either law or binding contract claus associated responsibility... you still have no clue WHO clicky clickied the link. ( My guess is Col. Mustard in the ballroom with the Dell XPS)

/That said, pirate errything.
//Hack the planet
2014-03-25 03:38:45 PM  
1 vote:

Theaetetus: But, on the other hand, the IP address is also tied to a particular modem or gateway at a particular time. Such as Starbucks' modem, smaller businesses' modems, hotels' modems, public spaces with free Internet provided by some organizations' modems, etc. There's some one point those communications are going through, and someone with control over that point... hence, equivalent to ownership of the car, even if you rent or loan your car out freely to others.


Theaetetus: But not with another MAC address on the same network, because then the router will not know where to send them. And if your point, as the owner of the access point, is to show that the infringing packets didn't come from  your computer, then it's irrelevant if they came from a real or spoofed MAC address, as long as it doesn't match yours.

Pfff, anyone  can detect if their wifi is being hijacked. Most people don't bother looking or don't know how. Again, that will be something that will change, once the law starts blaming you for anything that happens with your wifi router unless you can prove it wasn't you. Ignorance won't be a defense.


Theaetetus: Oh, I'm not using it in that way. As I said above, it's tied to a modem or gateway, which may be NATting for a whole pile of computers.


OK, hopefully this is quoting enough of you that you'll feel validated.

You look like a lawyer discussing how networking works. Each and every idea you've put out here is something that represents either a barrier that's simple to work around, or- especially in the case of MAC filtering- something that generally creates a larger security risk than it solves.
2014-03-25 02:20:42 PM  
1 vote:

impaler: Theaetetus: impaler: Theaetetus: And, even better than the car, your router can log each and every packet to/from that NATed IP or MAC address - so you know exactly when they started sharing "Sexy Librarians 14".

No they don't.

On models where the stored log is limited to 128 entries,

And those models don't log legitimate traffic.

OMG, that's it. From now on, I'm not responding to people who cherry pick one sentence from my posts when the post they're quoting contains an answer to their point.It's not just a waste of time, it's disingenuous.

No you said the router CAN log. As if it's an option.

This goes directly to your other point where "anyone can easily detect if someone's hijacking their wifi."

No, they can't even do that.


Go quote the entire post, including the part where I answer this. Then I'll respond.
2014-03-25 02:19:38 PM  
1 vote:

BullBearMS: I'm not a pro


Your amateur opinion is noted.

/isn't it annoying when people quote out of context?
2014-03-25 02:06:13 PM  
1 vote:
This is like the 50th time this ruling has been made, all over the country. FTFA:

"The ruling is crucial as it's another unique order confirming that an IP address alone is not enough to launch a copyright infringement lawsuit."

Another order. But, still, thanks subby: it helps to list them all in your motion to dismiss when you get a crap subpoena.

/pirates a lot
//only ever been subpoenaed for stuff I didn't DL
///all have been tossed
2014-03-25 01:33:47 PM  
1 vote:
All of this neglects air crack. I can secure my hotspot, removing me from negligence, but to any determined individual, its trivial security.

And what kind of person would have reason to crack into my hotspot? People who didn't want to be caught pirating music, movies, etc.

Granted in civil court you need a preponderance of evidence and not reasonable doubt, but a crafty lawyer can shred this pretty easily I bet.
2014-03-25 01:32:27 PM  
1 vote:
Just download with uploading chocked to zero (leeching, not seeding - there are plenty of people outside USA that the torrent will always have seeders) and if ever get accused, buy an used DVD and tell them you were protecting your property.

/Do not pirate
//Hate patent trolls.
///Piracy is not a real problem for anyone. Most kids who pirates wouldn't have bought the item anyway (only about 2% would, but even that amount is offset by the free advertisements pirating does.
2014-03-25 01:31:24 PM  
1 vote:
www.macleans.ca
2014-03-25 01:27:52 PM  
1 vote:

ecmoRandomNumbers: How many people actually use a VPN? I've been using one for over a year, and I think it's worth every penny.


Not to sidetrack, but do you subscribe to a service or roll your own?
2014-03-25 01:18:35 PM  
1 vote:
Short version: the judge said an IP address isn't enough to justify issuing a subpoena. That's kind of a big deal, because without the subpoena, you can't find out who exactly at an IP is downloading what, and sharing with whom.
2014-03-25 01:17:33 PM  
1 vote:
How many people actually use a VPN? I've been using one for over a year, and I think it's worth every penny.
2014-03-25 12:49:53 PM  
1 vote:

Theaetetus: In other words,  currently an open access point is like leaving your car on the street, unlocked, with the keys in the ignition


Except for the fact if someone steals my car, I'm very aware of it.

Few people can detect if their wifi is being hijacked.
2014-03-25 12:44:14 PM  
1 vote:
In other words,  currently an open access point is like leaving your car on the street, unlocked, with the keys in the ignition. And so if someone borrows it and runs a red light, you have a good argument that it wasn't you and you shouldn't be responsible.

But leaving your car on the street unlocked isn't reasonable, and as a result, many jurisdictions have passed statutes that say you're responsible for anything done with it if you can't prove it wasn't you. It's considered per se negligent.

Similarly, many jurisdictions will pass statutes that say you're responsible for anything traveling through your access point, if you can't prove it wasn't you.
2014-03-25 11:59:08 AM  
1 vote:

Theaetetus: ZAZ: The judge dismissed for improper venue, ruling that proving that an act took place in her district does not prove that the act took place in her district.

Geolocation information isn't reliable. Due to the VPN I'm on, the Interwebs think that I'm in Wisconsin, not Boston.

But that said, while this may look like a win for pirates privacy and freedom advocates, it only is in the short term... There are numerous cases coming out this way that are going to lead to one of two things: either ISPs will start including a line in the ToS that you agree that you are responsible for any infringing activity occurring over your connection and waive any arguments that you are not the infringer, or Congress will amend the copyright act to state that an IP address is prima facie evidence of an identity of an infringer, that can be rebutted only by an affidavit identifying the actual infringer. The latter has appeared in red-light camera statutes, where the owner of the car is responsible for the ticket, even if they weren't driving, unless they identify the person who was driving.

Simply put, the copyright lobby is not going to throw their hands up and say "gosh, pirates, you win because of this one legal loophole."


But in the case of the red light camera, that car is most definitely owned by the plate owner and it's quite reasonable to assume that he knows who is driving his car at any given time. It's going to be almost never that someone is randomly driving your car.

An IP address is widely sharable, even inadvertently but often on purpose and for good, legitimate reasons. Such as a Starbucks but also many smaller businesses, hotels, public spaces.
 
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