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(Chicago Trib)   Has Wal-Mart become a welfare queen after revealing it is dependent on food stamps?   (chicagotribune.com) divider line 512
    More: Interesting, Walmart, welfare queen, Michael Hiltzik, median household income, welfare programs, Barry Ritholtz  
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16505 clicks; posted to Main » on 25 Mar 2014 at 10:33 AM (18 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-03-25 02:44:30 PM

LazyMedia: jst3p: svanmeter: The next step when labeling a troll doesn't work

lol, it's too late bud. I will give you credit, it was a very good run but you went too far and made it too obvious.

Well done though.

Yeah, the "living on Obamacare" was a bit of a tell. I have low-cost or no-cost health insurance, that will pay for my rent and groceries!


Woah, you're halfway there!
 
2014-03-25 02:46:02 PM

Isitoveryet: Fissile: So you see, it is possible to compete with Walmart. Unfortunately, in places where Walmart is established, it becomes impossible for others to enter the market.

in my area, the Mart has decided to take their business to a lower neighborhood level.

http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2013/Jul/11/walmart-neighborhood-mark et -opens-san-diego/

basically, they will be the big box store that erases the local markets AND the local market that erases the original local market.

great for profit, bad for society.


As much as I hate Walmart, because they are lying liar welfare cheat scum, I don't feel so bad about occasionally shopping at my local Walmart because, hey, local. They have plenty of competition from nearby supermarkets and specialty stores that I prefer, but I'll go in there to get, say, sporting goods rather than drive an extra three miles to Sports Authority. Since it's an urban Walmart, it's a brick building with parking underneath rather than a hideous blue metal thing with an ocean of parking lot, and it has a lot of outparcel businesses like Radio Shack and Five Guys. I wish Target was in that spot, but whaddayagonna do?
 
2014-03-25 02:46:08 PM

menschenfresser: I've been in SuperWalmarts (or whatever they're called) and man alive, it's so depressing that you want to shoot yourself in the head. I don't know why anybody would go in one of those. Plus, they usually smell like pee somehow.


Check the vegetables. They're damp from the WalMart night shift...
 
2014-03-25 02:46:57 PM

clkeagle: Carn: Nutsac_Jim: Carn: If you're in favor of large corporations paying sub-standard wages


Let us know what a standard wage is.  Thx.

Living Wage Calculator.

I live in Fairfax County VA, and according to this site, the minimum living wage is $13.22 an hour, which even though I know you probably know this, I'll explain anyway, is the minimum wage that a person in my county (on average) needs to earn in order to be able to afford food, shelter (heat) and transportation.

Your counter to this will be "well people aren't supposed to live off of minimum wage jobs".  And that's fine as long as you accept that the price for this is your tax dollars making up the $6 shortfall in wages.

Thanks for posting that - I'm going to get a LOT of mileage out of it.


No problem, always nice to have a source.
 
2014-03-25 02:50:36 PM

Bazzlex001: Has anyone mentioned that this has allowed Wal-Mart to externalize one of its largest costs, which has allowed it to compete at an unnatural level in the marketplace, allowing it to become as large as it is today by swallowing up entire communities worth of other establishments?


Well said. I had a Republican friend in college who had a housecat that he used to let out all day so it could pass the time by killing birds and small animals in the neighborhood. He defended the practice because "cats are part of nature." He completely missed the point that animals that are actually "part of nature" don't get to sleep in a safe house with food and water provided. They're part of the food chain, not simply visitors to it.

By absorbing every possible benefit available to corporations, and simultaneously pushing off their payroll responsibilities onto the American taxpayer, Walmart is that cat: big, lazy, and stupid, but continually patted on the head by simple-minded Republicans who refuse to understand the big picture even when it's pointed out to them.
 
2014-03-25 02:51:30 PM
We really should just go back to slavery, even then they knew how much better it was:

".....A striking proof of this was afforded by the recent (and still continuing) general suspension of payments of the banks in this country. Payments of debts could not be obtained, commodities could not be sold, and all manufacturing and some other great industrial operations either had to be continued for greatly reduced prices and wages, or to be entirely suspended, or if of such kind as could be suspended, in consequence, in the Northern States, the free hired laborers were thrown out of employment, or employed only at much reduced wages. Hence all such persons were greatly damaged or distressed, and thousands of the most destitute were ready to starve. Hence hunger mobs were menacing the city of New York with pillage, and the last evils of a vicious and unbridled and starving populace, excited to insurrection and defiance of legal authority. Universal loss from this cause also visited the slaveholding States, and every property holder, and also, to some extent, every other free man therein. But not a slave has lost a meal, or a comfort; and as a class, the slaves scarcely know of the occurence of this great national calamity which has so universally damaged their masters, and the capitalists and employers of labor...." - Edmund Ruffin  The Political Economy of Slavery
 
2014-03-25 02:52:22 PM

Zizzowop: We really should just go back to slavery, even then they knew how much better it was:

".....A striking proof of this was afforded by the recent (and still continuing) general suspension of payments of the banks in this country. Payments of debts could not be obtained, commodities could not be sold, and all manufacturing and some other great industrial operations either had to be continued for greatly reduced prices and wages, or to be entirely suspended, or if of such kind as could be suspended, in consequence, in the Northern States, the free hired laborers were thrown out of employment, or employed only at much reduced wages. Hence all such persons were greatly damaged or distressed, and thousands of the most destitute were ready to starve. Hence hunger mobs were menacing the city of New York with pillage, and the last evils of a vicious and unbridled and starving populace, excited to insurrection and defiance of legal authority. Universal loss from this cause also visited the slaveholding States, and every property holder, and also, to some extent, every other free man therein. But not a slave has lost a meal, or a comfort; and as a class, the slaves scarcely know of the occurence of this great national calamity which has so universally damaged their masters, and the capitalists and employers of labor...." - Edmund Ruffin  The Political Economy of Slavery


All that says is that wage slavery is a kind of slavery.
 
2014-03-25 02:53:24 PM

doublesecretprobation: 1) drive wages so low your employees qualify for food stamps
2) profit

/welcome to wal-mart, i love you.


You forgot about forcing your suppliers to provide their wares at prices so low that they have to sent decent paying jobs overseas.  The former employees are now forced to take lower paying jobs, unemployment, or welfare/food stamps and shop at Wal-Mart.
 
2014-03-25 02:59:34 PM

LazyMedia: As much as I hate Walmart, because they are lying liar welfare cheat scum, I don't feel so bad about occasionally shopping at my local Walmart because, hey, local. They have plenty of competition from nearby supermarkets and specialty stores that I prefer, but I'll go in there to get, say, sporting goods rather than drive an extra three miles to Sports Authority. Since it's an urban Walmart, it's a brick building with parking underneath rather than a hideous blue metal thing with an ocean of parking lot, and it has a lot of outparcel businesses like Radio Shack and Five Guys. I wish Target was in that spot, but whaddayagonna do?


i really can't fault anyone who would shop at their stores, convenience (they are everywhere), affordability, selection & literally everything under one roof. Now if we could just get them to think of their employees, everything would be real nice.

for the life of me, i will never understand how some asshole with some capital to invest became more important to a successful company than the employees who participate in its operations.
I know, i know, they are a source of capital... well there are alternative sources and if you can't afford to pay a living wage and rely on social safety nets to subsidize your labor, you shouldn't even be in the business of employment.
 
2014-03-25 03:00:47 PM

factoryconnection: what_now: I love that we're picking on Wal Mart and not that other huge employer who's employees are often on food stamps because the pay is so low: The US Armed Forces.

Junior enlisted paygrades are low in pay because they're expected to be trainees.  When you enlist with a few kids, or enlist and then knock up the first girl that bats her eyes at you in an off-base bar you're going to struggle.  However, advancement is fairly regular early on and there are always time-in-service pay raises.  Furthermore, military families get free healthcare, subsidized groceries, tax-free housing and subsistence allowances, or they get base housing.  Yes some junior enlisted personnel with kids end up using SNAP, but they are not the general case unlike Wal-Mart.


Besides, only 5000 folks on SNAP listed their occupation as active duty military. It's hardly a rampant problem, considering we have 1.5 million people on active duty. Just 1/3 of 1%.
 
2014-03-25 03:00:54 PM

rewind2846: LazyMedia: It's not fair to just divide up the base pay by hours worked, and leave out the value of free food, lodging, health care, education savings, etc.

The family doesn't get "free food", nor are there EVER enough places to put them all, especially where I am, which means they will have to live on the local economy where cheap 2 bedroom apartments will run $1200.00 a month. If you want to live nearer the base or somewhere there aren't gunshots every week, it will cost substantially more.

Plus there's something to be said for "eating what you want" versus "eating what they give you", which is what happens when you eat at the mess hall.

I've been there. It's more than fair.


The best thing about the military life is that it actually allows the American dream to happen routinely. You start out working a physically hard job for low pay, but you get regular raises and promotions until 15 years later you're earning a substantial living, have a formal education and are mostly doing desk work.

If you're a 21-year-old with a laid-off spouse, three kids and are paying for an elderly dependent's health care, you SHOULD get public assistance; you're who it's for. The military is a job, not a public assistance program; there's no reason you shouldn't get the same help everyone else is eligible for if you have unusual financial circumstances. There are only about 5,000 people in the military on food stamps, or 0.4 percent of everyone in uniform. People keep throwing out anecdata claiming it's common for military families to use food stamps, when it's not; it's extremely rare.

There are very few private-sector careers that offer that sort of path to someone without a college education, and fewer all the time. Personally, that's how my family rose out of poverty. My dad was the first person in his family to go TO high school, and four years in the Navy led to his ending up with a master's degree from college and a high-level state job.  I'm afraid all the increases in pay and benefits are headed for the chopping block, though, the way they got rid of the GI Bill the first time.
 
2014-03-25 03:03:07 PM

archichris: doublesecretprobation: 1) drive wages so low your employees qualify for food stamps
2) profit

/welcome to wal-mart, i love you.

Walmarts wages are above minimum. Typically 50 people show up to apply for every position.

The Other thing is that if that money were not being taxed or borrowed out of the economy, it would still exist....and it would still create economic activity. The fact that Obama is trying to funnel as much of the economy through the Government as possible to create dependence is the real topic here.

Perhaps some of those people could find jobs if we didnt have 38 Trillion dollars per year in Economic activity being prevented by regulation. Wages for the bottom 30% of Americas workforce represent something like a Trillion dollars of the GDP....so merely reducing targeted regulation by 3% could double those workers wages through normal economic forces like supply and demand.

But liberals wont do that because it is more important for them to have control than it is for the lower class to double its wealth.


When copy-pasting your talking points, please make sure that what you put together makes sense.

KTHXBAI!
 
Ant
2014-03-25 03:11:01 PM

jeffowl: Unions Our participation in a race to the bottom with countries who basically have what amounts to slave labor have forced manufacturing off shore


FTFY
 
2014-03-25 03:12:35 PM

Barricaded Gunman: Bazzlex001: Has anyone mentioned that this has allowed Wal-Mart to externalize one of its largest costs, which has allowed it to compete at an unnatural level in the marketplace, allowing it to become as large as it is today by swallowing up entire communities worth of other establishments?

Well said. I had a Republican friend in college who had a housecat that he used to let out all day so it could pass the time by killing birds and small animals in the neighborhood. He defended the practice because "cats are part of nature." He completely missed the point that animals that are actually "part of nature" don't get to sleep in a safe house with food and water provided. They're part of the food chain, not simply visitors to it.

By absorbing every possible benefit available to corporations, and simultaneously pushing off their payroll responsibilities onto the American taxpayer, Walmart is that cat: big, lazy, and stupid, but continually patted on the head by simple-minded Republicans who refuse to understand the big picture even when it's pointed out to them.


That's a lovely metaphor, and very accurate.

Also, if they were made to internalize their costs it would cut their profits from 14000 per employee to 7000 per employee. Basically, they'd still be making money hand over fist, they're just a@@holes that are gaming a broken system.
 
2014-03-25 03:18:47 PM
I see that the right wingers speak about Hillary Clinton having something to do with the rise of Walmart - that she was on the board back in the early days. This is something they should remember come election day in 2016 as it goes right into the job creator hall of fame. Think about it, if it was Mitt, this would be an awesome, hard-on inducing history for guys that make less than 100k a year, and vote Republican.

Yet, since it's Hillary, we have her to blame for all this current policy with (Oh, I dunno, ACORN people from Benghazi taking our freedoms and popping out anchor babies right and left) social welfare programs that Walmart is depending on to aid their vast pool of serfs, indentured servants, and the worst variety of human scum: "Librulz".

What I would like to ask, is this impossible thing of them - compare your resume and and achievements in your life so far, to hers. Now pretend you have a vagina. Ok, next, go fark yourself because I know you were already done thinking before you ever read this post.
 
2014-03-25 03:20:32 PM

sendtodave: Zizzowop: We really should just go back to slavery, even then they knew how much better it was:

".....A striking proof of this was afforded by the recent (and still continuing) general suspension of payments of the banks in this country. Payments of debts could not be obtained, commodities could not be sold, and all manufacturing and some other great industrial operations either had to be continued for greatly reduced prices and wages, or to be entirely suspended, or if of such kind as could be suspended, in consequence, in the Northern States, the free hired laborers were thrown out of employment, or employed only at much reduced wages. Hence all such persons were greatly damaged or distressed, and thousands of the most destitute were ready to starve. Hence hunger mobs were menacing the city of New York with pillage, and the last evils of a vicious and unbridled and starving populace, excited to insurrection and defiance of legal authority. Universal loss from this cause also visited the slaveholding States, and every property holder, and also, to some extent, every other free man therein. But not a slave has lost a meal, or a comfort; and as a class, the slaves scarcely know of the occurence of this great national calamity which has so universally damaged their masters, and the capitalists and employers of labor...." - Edmund Ruffin  The Political Economy of Slavery

All that says is that wage slavery is a kind of slavery.


Wage slavery, yes, that's what I was thinking as well.
 
2014-03-25 03:23:25 PM

LazyMedia: The best thing about the military life is that it actually allows the American dream to happen routinely. You start out working a physically hard job for low pay, but you get regular raises and promotions until 15 years later you're earning a substantial living, have a formal education and are mostly doing desk work.


Not every MOS/duty station allows you to attend college classes.  I can think of a few American Dreams that don't have you dying in defense of your country or worse, dying for no good reason at all.
 
2014-03-25 03:26:51 PM

drew46n2: Svanmeter's work in this thread is commendable. His derp is pitch-perfectly off-point and the Spanish seasoning at the end really drives it home. We can actually learn alot from him.


He/she drove the "I know intimate details about all the poors because I worked for a few years in property management" guy right out of the thread. His derp was overshadowed by even bigger derp.
 
2014-03-25 03:31:31 PM

LazyMedia: rewind2846: LazyMedia: It's not fair to just divide up the base pay by hours worked, and leave out the value of free food, lodging, health care, education savings, etc.

The family doesn't get "free food", nor are there EVER enough places to put them all, especially where I am, which means they will have to live on the local economy where cheap 2 bedroom apartments will run $1200.00 a month. If you want to live nearer the base or somewhere there aren't gunshots every week, it will cost substantially more.

Plus there's something to be said for "eating what you want" versus "eating what they give you", which is what happens when you eat at the mess hall.

I've been there. It's more than fair.

The best thing about the military life is that it actually allows the American dream to happen routinely. You start out working a physically hard job for low pay, but you get regular raises and promotions until 15 years later you're earning a substantial living, have a formal education and are mostly doing desk work.

If you're a 21-year-old with a laid-off spouse, three kids and are paying for an elderly dependent's health care, you SHOULD get public assistance; you're who it's for. The military is a job, not a public assistance program; there's no reason you shouldn't get the same help everyone else is eligible for if you have unusual financial circumstances. There are only about 5,000 people in the military on food stamps, or 0.4 percent of everyone in uniform. People keep throwing out anecdata claiming it's common for military families to use food stamps, when it's not; it's extremely rare.

There are very few private-sector careers that offer that sort of path to someone without a college education, and fewer all the time. Personally, that's how my family rose out of poverty. My dad was the first person in his family to go TO high school, and four years in the Navy led to his ending up with a master's degree from college and a high-level state job.  I'm afraid all the incr ...


and the burial benefits are to die for!
 
2014-03-25 03:34:38 PM

LazyMedia: We already have that.


No, there are no such requirements in the U.S.  We have a written naturalization test which is some history questions about the nation, (given in many different languages).  No job requirement, no language requirement.


LazyMedia: It's very hard to immigrate legally into the United States.


The U.S. allows the largest amount of legal immigration of any nation in the world, by a very large margin.  So this is a strange statement.


  

LazyMedia: if you're a low-skill worker, which is why so many Latinos come in illegally -- there IS no legal avenue for most of them.


More than 50% of our legal immigration (not counting illegal immigration) is Latino, so this statement, again, is just weird.


If you decide to discuss this honestly, let me know.
 
2014-03-25 03:48:46 PM

Soup4Bonnie: LazyMedia: The best thing about the military life is that it actually allows the American dream to happen routinely. You start out working a physically hard job for low pay, but you get regular raises and promotions until 15 years later you're earning a substantial living, have a formal education and are mostly doing desk work.

Not every MOS/duty station allows you to attend college classes.  I can think of a few American Dreams that don't have you dying in defense of your country or worse, dying for no good reason at all.


And when you elect to enlist you also elect your profession
 
2014-03-25 03:53:04 PM

bhcompy: And when you elect to enlist you also elect your profession


And wtf does that have to do with anything?   Have you ever served?
 
2014-03-25 03:53:23 PM

bhcompy:
And when you elect to enlist you also elect your profession


In the navy, that's spoken "Choose your rate, choose your fate."
 
2014-03-25 03:58:30 PM
Has anyone mentioned yet that the "proof" of Walmarts reliance on food stamps provided by the article was this little tidbit:

Buried within the long list of risk factors disclosed to its shareholders--that is, factors "outside our control" that could materially affect financial performance--are these: "changes in the amount of payments made under the Supplement Nutrition Assistance Plan and other public assistance plans, (and) changes in the eligibility requirements of public assistance plans."


GASP - So what the article says is that Walmart sells groceries!!! HOLY SHAIT, stop the presses!!!! Every single store that sells groceries will suffer the same - I guess that means they all RELY UPON FOOD STAMPS.

Jesus, we just need a Koch sighting and this would be the ideal Democrat wet Boogeyman dream.
 
2014-03-25 03:59:07 PM

DROxINxTHExWIND: Born_Again_Bavarian: what_now: I love that we're picking on Wal Mart and not that other huge employer who's employees are often on food stamps because the pay is so low: The US Armed Forces.

Enough of this.  Those in the lower military pay grades aren't poor because they aren't paid enough.  They are poor because they suck at managing their money.

An 18 year old E-1 with more than 4 months in makes over $18,000 per year.  That might not be a lot in the civilian world, but when your job training, medical insurance, housing, utilities, food and work clothes don't have to be paid out of that money it suddenly because a signifigant amount.  Of course few people remain an E-1 for long.  In 3 years you will most likely be an E-4 pulling in almost $27k per year.

There was a time when people in the military weren't paid very well.  That time is long gone.  Mid career enlisted make about $40k.  Mid career officers make $80k.


$27,000/yr hasn't been good money in the DC area since the early 2000's, and even then you couldn't buy a house and support a family of four comfortably. What happens to those military families who get shipped from shiat Hill, Oklahoma to Andrews AFB in Maryland? Does their pay increase?


Their housing allowance does. Substantially.  My BAH, on  transferring from central CT (not exactly low rent) to metro DC, nearly doubled.
 
2014-03-25 04:01:31 PM

Soup4Bonnie: LazyMedia: The best thing about the military life is that it actually allows the American dream to happen routinely. You start out working a physically hard job for low pay, but you get regular raises and promotions until 15 years later you're earning a substantial living, have a formal education and are mostly doing desk work.

Not every MOS/duty station allows you to attend college classes.  I can think of a few American Dreams that don't have you dying in defense of your country or worse, dying for no good reason at all.


Not every duty station or MOS, but in the normal course of the last 70 years (aside from '03-'10, that is), the vast majority of career military people wound up with the opportunity to get a degree while serving. Most of the senior Air Force and Army enlisted I have worked with have bachelor's degrees, and most of the E-8s and E-9s have a masters. I took three college courses while under weigh on a six-month deployment in '95; we had a college professor aboard just for that.

Risk of death or serious injury is definitely a factor to consider, especially if you go into combat arms. But that's kind of the point of the job. I'm not saying the military's for everyone (I wish we had a national, non-military service option). But it's not a bad deal for those who choose it.
 
2014-03-25 04:05:13 PM

LazyMedia: Risk of death or serious injury is definitely a factor to consider, especially if you go into combat arms. But that's kind of the point of the job. I'm not saying the military's for everyone (I wish we had a national, non-military service option). But it's not a bad deal for those who choose it.


My issue was you depicting it as the American Dream.
 
2014-03-25 04:08:15 PM
I bought a reversible belt from Wal-Mart a few weeks ago.  It fits well and was a reasonable price.
 
2014-03-25 04:09:13 PM

Mike Chewbacca: Besides, only 5000 folks on SNAP listed their occupation as active duty military. It's hardly a rampant problem, considering we have 1.5 million people on active duty. Just 1/3 of 1%.


1/3 of 1% ?!? Sweet honey mustard! I had no idea it was that much!

Hell, PBS was only getting .012 of 1% of the federal budget, and Mitt Romney's Lickspittle Brigade were practically sh#tting themselves over it for months.
 
2014-03-25 04:12:10 PM

jst3p: DecemberNitro: It's spelled Walmart, not Wal-Mart. It's right there in the f*cking picture.

It used to be Wal-Mart, so the confusion is understandable.


And Kroger used to have an 's at the end and grammar nazis accuse people that still use the 's of being dumb because the current signage doesnt have it even though the older ones used to.
 
2014-03-25 04:18:30 PM

Barricaded Gunman: Mike Chewbacca: Besides, only 5000 folks on SNAP listed their occupation as active duty military. It's hardly a rampant problem, considering we have 1.5 million people on active duty. Just 1/3 of 1%.

1/3 of 1% ?!? Sweet honey mustard! I had no idea it was that much!

Hell, PBS was only getting .012 of 1% of the federal budget, and Mitt Romney's Lickspittle Brigade were practically sh#tting themselves over it for months.


The reason is because when you apply for SNAP and WIC they only count base income and do not include your entitlements like BAH.  Pretty wrong if you ask me.
 
2014-03-25 04:23:21 PM

stonicus: I bought a reversible belt from Wal-Mart a few weeks ago.  It fits well and was a reasonable price.


one side gives you cancer and the other just a rash, the fun is finding out which is which.
 
2014-03-25 04:23:21 PM

jst3p: DecemberNitro: It's spelled Walmart, not Wal-Mart. It's right there in the f*cking picture.

It used to be Wal-Mart, so the confusion is understandable.

[encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com image 259x194]

[pronkpapers.files.wordpress.com image 850x489]


Wal-Mart changes its branding over the years.  It is and always has been Wal-Mart Stores, Inc.
 
2014-03-25 04:27:12 PM

svanmeter: jst3p: svanmeter:  ¿Porqué se calló el gobierno?


Se usa cayo, estupido.
 
2014-03-25 04:28:19 PM

archichris: doublesecretprobation: 1) drive wages so low your employees qualify for food stamps
2) profit

/welcome to wal-mart, i love you.

Walmarts wages are above minimum. Typically 50 people show up to apply for every position.

The Other thing is that if that money were not being taxed or borrowed out of the economy, it would still exist....and it would still create economic activity. The fact that Obama is trying to funnel as much of the economy through the Government as possible to create dependence is the real topic here.

Perhaps some of those people could find jobs if we didnt have 38 Trillion dollars per year in Economic activity being prevented by regulation. Wages for the bottom 30% of Americas workforce represent something like a Trillion dollars of the GDP....so merely reducing targeted regulation by 3% could double those workers wages through normal economic forces like supply and demand.

But liberals wont do that because it is more important for them to have control than it is for the lower class to double its wealth.


Almost bit, well cast.
 
2014-03-25 04:30:39 PM

CanisNoir: Has anyone mentioned yet that the "proof" of Walmarts reliance on food stamps provided by the article was this little tidbit:

Buried within the long list of risk factors disclosed to its shareholders--that is, factors "outside our control" that could materially affect financial performance--are these: "changes in the amount of payments made under the Supplement Nutrition Assistance Plan and other public assistance plans, (and) changes in the eligibility requirements of public assistance plans."



Well, that's one side of it. They are warning shareholders that their profits could go down due to SNAP cuts. The other side of it is that they are the single largest group of food stamp recipients.
 
2014-03-25 04:34:13 PM

Soup4Bonnie: LazyMedia: Risk of death or serious injury is definitely a factor to consider, especially if you go into combat arms. But that's kind of the point of the job. I'm not saying the military's for everyone (I wish we had a national, non-military service option). But it's not a bad deal for those who choose it.

My issue was you depicting it as the American Dream.


The American dream part is the "start out with a menial, low-paying job, living in impoverished circumstances, then see your pay and responsibility increase over the years until you're a manager with a house in the suburbs." That one. The one where life is as predictable as a MMORPG. That used to be possible for barely educated factory workers, but it's mostly gone. About the only place you can find it is in government service, especially the military (most GS jobs don't hire right out of high school).
 
2014-03-25 04:36:31 PM

suburbanguy: jst3p: DecemberNitro: It's spelled Walmart, not Wal-Mart. It's right there in the f*cking picture.

It used to be Wal-Mart, so the confusion is understandable.

[encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com image 259x194]

[pronkpapers.files.wordpress.com image 850x489]

Wal-Mart changes its branding over the years.  It is and always has been Wal-Mart Stores, Inc.


Yeah, AP style is Wal-Mart. The faded competitor is Kmart.
 
2014-03-25 04:40:39 PM

The My Little Pony Killer: Become? <-----

Slaves2Darkness: Become? <-----

LarryDan43: Become? <-----

^^^
 
2014-03-25 04:43:15 PM

ThrobblefootSpectre: LazyMedia: We already have that.

No job requirement, no language requirement.

If you decide to discuss this honestly, let me know.


As someone who deals with this everyday, there is a support/income requirement to be admitted. YOU don't have to have a job, but total household income where you are going to be residing must be above a certain amount.
 
2014-03-25 04:50:56 PM
Yes.

//apologies if this answer already has been given.  I'm not reading through 8 pages of comments
 
2014-03-25 04:52:18 PM

AllYourFarkAreBelongToMe: firefly212: MemeSlave: firefly212: BMFPitt: Hey, it's this thread again. Always interesting to see the people who most strongly support these programs get butthurt because they are working as designed.

To be clear, I support food stamps because nobody should go hungry. I support a reasonable minimum wage because nobody who works 40 hours a week should need food stamps.

People need to start the race at the same point, not finish it at the same point.

I'm not saying everyone should finish at the same point and we should all by communists... I'm saying starting the race should mean that nobody starves to death in the richest country in the world. I'm also saying that if you work 40 hours a week, you should be making enough to provide basic food, healthcare, and shelter to your family... nobody's saying finish the race at the same point, except for you.

The only people who starve to death in the US are children of welfare recipients who use their hand-outs to buy dope rather than food.  Link me to an article where someone who can walk and talk has starved to death here in the past 50 years.  Also, as has been pointed out up-thread, WalMart is like McD', BK, KFC, etc.  It's a starting point for kids, or a way for older people to pick up some walking around money.  I doubt very many people take a job there expecting to make a career out of it.  Don't like their policies, don't take a job there and don't shop there.  Never see so much whiny butt-hurt in any threads (politics tab excepted) than in the weekly "WalMart sucks threads.  For fark's sake, it's nobody's fault but your own that you can't get a better job.  Maybe instead of wasting all that money on a worthless BA in quilting you should have gone to trade school?   But no.  Let's all blame somebody else for our own shortcomings and demand people make $40K/year + Bennies for knowing how to stock shelves, and in which aisle I can find toilet paper.


1. pulled myself up just fine, I've got an MA in Econ, not Quilting.

2. I volunteer down at the Rescue Mission occasionally... you're talking about making reasonable decisions and getting an education, etc. While helping out there with one of the life skills classes, we pretended a guy was buying a candy bar (1.25), he handed me three five dollar bills. I told him I only needed one of them, as it was only a dollar and change, and each bill he gave me was worth five dollars. His response was "how many is five?" What I'm saying is, without adequate education or mental health institutions for long-term people who are going to need it, yes, people starve.. .that you don't see them doesn't make them stop existing.

3. I'm not linking you articles, my name is not google. If you'd like to meet some people who actually are at risk of starving, despite your claims of how nobody starves, I will happily volunteer with you down at the Denver Rescue Mission for a day, or the Food Pantry up here in Fraser, and we can meet them face to face so you can tell both them and me all about how superior you are in person. Name the day, and I'll be there.
 
2014-03-25 04:55:30 PM

LazyMedia: The American dream part is the "start out with a menial, low-paying job, living in impoverished circumstances, then see your pay and responsibility increase over the years until you're a manager with a house in the suburbs."


I would agree that social upward mobility is a component of the American Dream.  I don't think serving in the military is an aspect of the American Dream.  I want to work hard in the profession of my choosing and have a level and equal playing field against those in that profession so that I may advance.  Serving 20 years following the orders of superiors with no guarantee that I will get an education, that I will get ahead or that I won't get killed doesn't even enter that picture.

LazyMedia: Not every duty station or MOS, but in the normal course of the last 70 years (aside from '03-'10, that is), the vast majority of career military people wound up with the opportunity to get a degree while serving.


I disagree with that.  It ignores the Korean and Viet Nam wars as well as those stationed overseas and remotely during other times such as the Cold War.  Also, you say vast majority of career people had the opportunity, but how many actually did achieve that?  I would be interesting in seeing figures around that.
 
2014-03-25 04:57:45 PM

archichris: doublesecretprobation: 1) drive wages so low your employees qualify for food stamps
2) profit

/welcome to wal-mart, i love you.

Walmarts wages are above minimum. Typically 50 people show up to apply for every position.

The Other thing is that if that money were not being taxed or borrowed out of the economy, it would still exist....and it would still create economic activity. The fact that Obama is trying to funnel as much of the economy through the Government as possible to create dependence is the real topic here.

Perhaps some of those people could find jobs if we didnt have 38 Trillion dollars per year in Economic activity being prevented by regulation. Wages for the bottom 30% of Americas workforce represent something like a Trillion dollars of the GDP....so merely reducing targeted regulation by 3% could double those workers wages through normal economic forces like supply and demand.

But liberals wont do that because it is more important for them to have control than it is for the lower class to double its wealth.


No it eventually ends up in the hands of a small portion of the population that doesn't spend it and further stimulate the economy because they don't need to use that money.   Keeping that money flowing through the economy is one of the goals of regulation.
 
2014-03-25 05:02:57 PM
ThrobblefootSpectre:LazyMedia: It's very hard to immigrate legally into the United States.

The U.S. allows the largest amount of legal immigration of any nation in the world, by a very large margin.  So this is a strange statement.


These statements are not mutually exclusive.  Yes, the US allows for a large amount of legal immigration.  But the process is not easy or cheap.
 
2014-03-25 05:04:29 PM

m1ke: Linux_Yes: Brilliant!   throw the baby out with the bathwater.  as long as its not your baby.   i smell a republican again.  well done!

Do people still throw out bath water?  I mean, isn't easier just to let it go down the drain?  Babies don't go down drains very well...


You have to run them through the meat grinder first.  If you have the setting on too course, you'll clog the drain.
 
2014-03-25 05:06:40 PM

LazyMedia: This would be an easy fix if Republicans didn't control the House.


LOL.  You actually believe that?  I hate to break this to you, but the Democrates are equally money grubbing rich assholes.
 
2014-03-25 05:07:21 PM
*slow clap for everyone arguing in this thread*  It is a beautiful read.
 
2014-03-25 05:17:21 PM

svanmeter: jst3p: svanmeter: Those people you claim have jobs are quiting in high numbers because it makes more financial sense for them to get obamacare and unemployment

You don't get unemployment when you quit you ignorant chud. When you have to lie to make your point it says a lot about your point.

Yeah, I don't know how unemployment works because I've never quit a job. I guess you're the authority on that. Our local welfare office had to set up an additional desk for all the people who quit their jobs because they found it easier to get Obama care and other handouts. Keep that head in the sand there amigo. Algún día dirás...¿Qué pasó? ¿Porqué se calló el gobierno?


You've never quit a job? That's hilarious!
 
2014-03-25 05:18:04 PM

LazyMedia: Immigrants work harder than lazy-ass American kids, and create more wealth for everyone greedy-ass employers.


Fixed that for you.

I'll agree that immigrants are willing to work for less pay than Americans are, while collecting welfare, food stamps, section 8, ripping off ERs for their healthcare, and getting free education for their kids, all paid for by Americans.

However, our immigration policy should be geared towards benefiting all Americans, not subsidizing wealth creation for the 1%.
 
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