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(CBS News)   Good: Obama wants the NSA to stop keeping records on Americans' calls. Bad: wants telecoms to keep them instead   (cbsnews.com) divider line 82
    More: Stupid, NSA, independent review  
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223 clicks; posted to Politics » on 25 Mar 2014 at 7:34 AM (27 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-03-25 10:07:24 AM

LasersHurt: No, it's a question I asked. I'm trying to figure out why he thinks it should go on for years, allowing some things to continue knowingly. I know it sounds like I "made it up," because I was the one who asked the question, introducing the idea.


you didn't ask anything, you said this and then covered for yourself after the fact by introducing this weird 'method as in method of information release' vector to the conversation unprompted:

LasersHurt: I said nothing of the methods, I spoke of the actual information released.

LasersHurt: Thank god you have such detailed explanations of "he gets it better." That's helpful. You added to the conversation.


most people would realize that being upset because my sarcasm was not detailed enough to be a legitimate answer is kind of a waste of everyone's time yet here we are
 
2014-03-25 10:10:07 AM

LasersHurt: HotWingConspiracy: LasersHurt: HotWingConspiracy: And they're only changing the practices that have been exposed, so more to come.

So why not - and follow me here - Why not release the information in a timely fashion so they are forced to change ALL of the negative practices now, rather than keeping SOME going for many more years?

Because the situation is bigger than that and there are many variables and concerns at play. You know they're voluntarily redacting and holding back certain documents, right? Review takes time.

That just sounds like "take our word for it." Which I am disinclined to do. But okay.


I don't think you're looking for a real answer to your question.
 
2014-03-25 10:12:07 AM

sprawl15: to the conversation unprompted:


Like how you joined in to a conversation I was having with someone else, actually avoided the substance, and have continued to do so?

sprawl15: my sarcasm was not detailed enough to be a legitimate answer is kind of a waste of everyone's time yet here we are


Yes, you're doing nothing but wasting time. Either actually try to talk about what he and I were talking about, or just... just stop please.
 
2014-03-25 10:13:02 AM

HotWingConspiracy: LasersHurt: HotWingConspiracy: LasersHurt: HotWingConspiracy: And they're only changing the practices that have been exposed, so more to come.

So why not - and follow me here - Why not release the information in a timely fashion so they are forced to change ALL of the negative practices now, rather than keeping SOME going for many more years?

Because the situation is bigger than that and there are many variables and concerns at play. You know they're voluntarily redacting and holding back certain documents, right? Review takes time.

That just sounds like "take our word for it." Which I am disinclined to do. But okay.

I don't think you're looking for a real answer to your question.


I am, I just don't buy that one. That's okay, you answered it. I don't have to accept it, but we've fulfilled our conversation. Thanks for answering.
 
2014-03-25 10:16:07 AM

HotWingConspiracy: Because the situation is bigger than that and there are many variables and concerns at play. You know they're voluntarily redacting and holding back certain documents, right? Review takes time.


What, precisely, are the "variables and concerns" that might justify the release of information about the US spying on Chinese companies? Or Brazilian companies? At least the "revelations" (and I use the term loosely) about metadata policy and surveillance of European officials could be tenuously justified with arguments like "Well they shouldn't be doing this to US citizens" and "Well they shouldn't be doing this to friendly nations".

Things like this, though, just come across as indiscriminate (and increasingly ineffectual) attempts to damage the US government for its own sake.
 
2014-03-25 10:17:35 AM

LasersHurt: Like how you joined in to a conversation I was having with someone else, actually avoided the substance, and have continued to do so?


yes, pretty much exactly like that

LasersHurt: Either actually try to talk about what he and I were talking about, or just... just stop please.


did you actually stop after a) in huffy outrage or did you read to b)? survival is always the primary instinct
 
2014-03-25 10:19:02 AM

sprawl15: LasersHurt: Like how you joined in to a conversation I was having with someone else, actually avoided the substance, and have continued to do so?

yes, pretty much exactly like that

LasersHurt: Either actually try to talk about what he and I were talking about, or just... just stop please.

did you actually stop after a) in huffy outrage or did you read to b)? survival is always the primary instinct


God forbid you talk about the subject matter instead of whatever arbitrary thing enters your head.
 
2014-03-25 10:33:47 AM

LasersHurt: God forbid you talk about the subject matter instead of whatever arbitrary thing enters your head.


"why is he releasing in drops rather than all at once?"
"because it keeps him valuable to russia and out of the hands of the american authorities"
"god why don't you talk about the subject"
 
2014-03-25 10:35:38 AM

sprawl15: LasersHurt: God forbid you talk about the subject matter instead of whatever arbitrary thing enters your head.

"why is he releasing in drops rather than all at once?"
"because it keeps him valuable to russia and out of the hands of the american authorities"
"god why don't you talk about the subject"


That's not the question, but okay. Whatever makes you feel like you've helped.
 
2014-03-25 10:41:59 AM

LasersHurt: That's not the question


LasersHurt: Why not release it in a timely manner, if it's important? Why drag it out for years?

 
2014-03-25 10:45:03 AM

sprawl15: LasersHurt: That's not the question

LasersHurt: Why not release it in a timely manner, if it's important? Why drag it out for years?


Timely manner /= all at once.

LasersHurt: I got the initial justification of "not all at once" so it doesn't slip out of the public eye, but YEARS is ridiculous.

 
2014-03-25 10:48:41 AM

LasersHurt: Timely manner /= all at once.


are you not even going to try to make up a reason for this distinction to matter
 
2014-03-25 10:52:40 AM

sprawl15: LasersHurt: Timely manner /= all at once.

are you not even going to try to make up a reason for this distinction to matter


I did? Few months, sure. A year or two, maybe. But after a few YEARS I simply don't buy "it takes time to read documents". There's absolutely an upper limit on the time it takes, and the gaps between needed to keep things in the press etc. Are you suggesting there is not?
 
2014-03-25 10:55:52 AM

LasersHurt: But after a few YEARS I simply don't buy "it takes time to read documents". There's absolutely an upper limit on the time it takes, and the gaps between needed to keep things in the press etc.


sprawl15: either a) he understands the panoptic far better than you or b) he understands that his visa is only good as long as he still has rocks to throw

 
2014-03-25 10:57:09 AM

sprawl15: LasersHurt: But after a few YEARS I simply don't buy "it takes time to read documents". There's absolutely an upper limit on the time it takes, and the gaps between needed to keep things in the press etc.

sprawl15: either a) he understands the panoptic far better than you or b) he understands that his visa is only good as long as he still has rocks to throw


Is "he" Snowden? He surrendered everything to Greenwald did he not? He's done man. Also the personal benefit of one man does not override the importance of exposing what they claim are important things.
 
2014-03-25 11:00:45 AM

LasersHurt: Also the personal benefit of one man does not override the importance of exposing what they claim are important things.


sprawl15: survival is always the primary instinct

 
2014-03-25 11:03:20 AM

sprawl15: LasersHurt: Also the personal benefit of one man does not override the importance of exposing what they claim are important things.

sprawl15: survival is always the primary instinct


I retain this is larger than him, and reject any justifications that rely on his well-being.
 
2014-03-25 11:07:02 AM

LasersHurt: I retain this is larger than him, and reject any justifications that rely on his well-being.


morally reject or like deny reality kind of object
 
2014-03-25 11:07:11 AM

LasersHurt: sprawl15: LasersHurt: Also the personal benefit of one man does not override the importance of exposing what they claim are important things.

sprawl15: survival is always the primary instinct

I retain this is larger than him, and reject any justifications that rely on his well-being.


How about the well being of the people/entities who's names they're voluntarily redacting from documents? And I don't think you're aware just how much was taken, it can't have all been reviewed with the detail needed for release.
 
2014-03-25 11:11:53 AM

sprawl15: LasersHurt: I retain this is larger than him, and reject any justifications that rely on his well-being.

morally reject or like deny reality kind of object


Morally, I guess? Why should I accept the continuation of terrible NSA spying programs because it makes Snowden more comfortable? I'd rather have the information than not, if it's as important has he claims. He is LESS important than the information, and he himself has said so.

HotWingConspiracy: How about the well being of the people/entities who's names they're voluntarily redacting from documents? And I don't think you're aware just how much was taken, it can't have all been reviewed with the detail needed for release.


This is important, yes, and I do agree that it should be protected and it might take a while. But indefinite "years"? And we're already down to "spying on foreign countries," which is sort of the thing the NSA should do and a departure from "spying on Americans and allies"? I feel like the most important stuff has passed, assuming they assigned any level of prioritization. Beyond that I am not willing to grant an indefinite amount of time, at least not for Sprawl's argument of Snowden's well-being.
 
2014-03-25 11:12:01 AM

HotWingConspiracy: And I don't think you're aware just how much was taken, it can't have all been reviewed with the detail needed for release.


does russia not allow interns
 
2014-03-25 11:15:54 AM

LasersHurt: Why should I accept the continuation of terrible NSA spying programs because it makes Snowden more comfortable?


because there is literally nothing you can do about it
 
2014-03-25 11:18:27 AM

sprawl15: LasersHurt: Why should I accept the continuation of terrible NSA spying programs because it makes Snowden more comfortable?

because there is literally nothing you can do about it


He says, in a thread about the government changing Spying programs after they were revealed.
 
2014-03-25 11:20:10 AM

LasersHurt: He says, in a thread about the government changing Spying programs after they were revealed.


are you suggesting that you are responsible for revealing the spying programs or merely that you do not understand that i used the word 'you' meaning you and not ya'll
 
2014-03-25 11:22:58 AM

sprawl15: LasersHurt: He says, in a thread about the government changing Spying programs after they were revealed.

are you suggesting that you are responsible for revealing the spying programs or merely that you do not understand that i used the word 'you' meaning you and not ya'll


I have many contacts with top men.

Also don't act high and mighty because the English Language uses the same word for 2nd person and 3rd person plural.
 
2014-03-25 11:24:38 AM

LasersHurt: 2nd person and 3rd person plural.


Shiat, you know what I meant.
 
2014-03-25 11:27:07 AM

LasersHurt: Also don't act high and mighty because the English Language uses the same word for 2nd person and 3rd person plural.


third person plural, present indicative
 
2014-03-25 12:34:04 PM

sprawl15: "why is he releasing in drops rather than all at once?"
"because it keeps him valuable to russia and out of the hands of the american authorities"


I was under the impression that Snowden gave the information to Greenwald all in one go, and the latter has been deciding what to publish and when.
 
2014-03-25 12:36:42 PM
TELECOMS ALREADY KEEP THIS KIND OF INFORMATION SUBTARD!

Holy crap people are really stupid if they thing companies just throw away all their data on their customers. They don't.
 
2014-03-25 12:42:29 PM
Thank God. This thread actually has people pointing out telecoms already have this information instead of the stupid knee jerk reaction there has been about this stuff.

I love how it started out:

OMG GOVERNMENT CAN LISTEN TO ALL OF YOUR CALL ANYTIME WITHOUT A WARRANT OR ANYTHING!! (which was a lie)

But then for each "release" it's:

OMG GOVERNMENT CAN LISTEN TO EVEN MORE OF ALL YOUR CALLS!!!

It's stupid. If you actually believed government could listen to anything at any time how they hell are you going upset again when you learn the same thing. Either you really don't believe your statement you originally believed or your just an idiot that doesn't really care or understand what is being said.
 
2014-03-25 12:55:28 PM

Biological Ali: sprawl15: "why is he releasing in drops rather than all at once?"
"because it keeps him valuable to russia and out of the hands of the american authorities"

I was under the impression that Snowden gave the information to Greenwald all in one go, and the latter has been deciding what to publish and when.


and yet we have never seen snowden and greenwald in the same room
 
2014-03-25 01:01:35 PM

sprawl15: and yet we have never seen snowden and greenwald in the same room


leeksy3d.files.wordpress.com
 
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