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(Talking Points Memo)   Harry Reid: The GOP is so patriotic, they may have helped Russia annex Crimea   (talkingpointsmemo.com) divider line 132
    More: Interesting, Harry Reid, Crimean, GOP, Russia, Russia annex, inlets, Ukrainian military, Republican Block  
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1998 clicks; posted to Politics » on 25 Mar 2014 at 9:32 AM (17 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-03-25 07:51:03 AM
It's just because they have such a crush on Putin. It's like the nerd doing the cheerleader's homework hoping she'll hand out under-bleacher handys.
 
2014-03-25 08:06:40 AM

Mr. Coffee Nerves: It's just because they have such a crush on Putin. It's like the nerd doing the cheerleader's homework hoping she'll hand out under-bleacher handys.


as someone who has gotten an under bleacher handy from a cheerleader for doing her homework I'm really....

...fine, I never got an under bleacher handy :(

*weeps*
 
2014-03-25 08:22:58 AM
FTA:Outlining the Senate's agenda after a one-week recess, the Nevada Democrat said the first item would be the Ukraine bill that Republicans blocked just before lawmakers went on break. He urged Republicans to consider "how their obstruction affects United States' national security as well as the people of Ukraine" and said their delay of any congressional action "sent a dangerous message to Russian leaders."

Also, the Republicans opposing President Obama hitting the Syrian government, a client state of the Russians, with cruise missiles in resposne to using chemical weapons in their civil war didn't help either, IMHO.
 
2014-03-25 08:24:00 AM

Mr. Coffee Nerves: It's just because they have such a crush on Putin. It's like the nerd doing the cheerleader's homework hoping she'll hand out under-bleacher handys.


Take a lesson from the pros.  Get your handy first, she'll back out after the semester is over.

It's a hard lesson to learn.  She learned never trust a nerd you've cheated out of a handy to do next semester's homework.
 
2014-03-25 09:10:47 AM
The GOP hasn't helped, but Putin was annexing Crimea with or without passage of this bill.
 
2014-03-25 09:37:28 AM
Chill out, Harry.  Let the Republicans say all the stupid stuff.
 
2014-03-25 09:39:03 AM
Reid needs to shut his trap and stop turning the Ukraine into a partisan shouting match
 
2014-03-25 09:39:41 AM
What a strong leader looks like to the GOPwww.outsidethebeltway.com
 
2014-03-25 09:42:27 AM
Well, the GOP needs to long for somebody who shares their desire to crush America's government after their main squeeze, Osama, was killed.
 
2014-03-25 09:45:24 AM

Mr. Coffee Nerves: It's just because they have such a crush on Putin. It's like the nerd doing the cheerleader's homework hoping she'll hand out under-bleacher handys.


OK, so  Putin is the nurd who is doing the GOP(cheerleaders,for him anyway)homework  hoping they(the American GOP) are going to give him a handy under the bleachers?   Actually, I'd say you nailed it.
 
2014-03-25 09:46:13 AM
Why is it unpatriotic to let Russia annex Crimea?  The Crimean people wanted to join, and the Ukrainian government was unconstitutionally overthrown.

Suppose we gave Hawaii its independence back in the 80s.  We still had Pearl Harbor there through some kind of agreement, of course, and for the sake of argument, that was our only naval base in the Pacific.  Our Pacific presence would be seriously hurt by losing it.  Now suppose the historically pro US government in Hawaii was ousted unconstitutionally by a pro Chinese mob.  Oahu (island with Pearl Harbor) has a significant US population, and wants to join back up officially.  Parts of the new pro Chinese government want to kick the US out of Pearl Harbor.

How do we respond?  How should we respond?
 
2014-03-25 09:48:58 AM
We all know the moon is not made out of cheese. But what if the moon was made of barbecued spare ribs?

How do we respond? How should we respond?
 
2014-03-25 09:50:00 AM
i... i hope putin-san notices me
 
2014-03-25 09:51:13 AM
I see the King of Analogies has arrived.

Also, why would anyone be surprised? The way Fark Independents have been swooning over Putin lately, I just assumed Clear Channel gave him a syndicated 10 - 2 slot on AM radio.
 
2014-03-25 09:52:38 AM
Look, I don't want to be all pro-Russia or anything, but Crimea is ethnically Russian. It's a culturally distinct region from most of the rest of the Ukraine. In other words, this is another case where Europe has drawn borders with no regard to anything other than political expediency, and now powerful factions want to redraw the borders, and the whole thing is just ass and Europe, stop being so ancient and old and full of cultural history that leads to conflict.
 
2014-03-25 09:52:44 AM
They certainly aren't helping matters... Though, the GOP never does.
 
2014-03-25 09:52:53 AM

sprawl15: We all know the moon is not made out of cheese. But what if the moon was made of barbecued spare ribs?

How do we respond? How should we respond?


I think we should take a wait and see stance.  Now if the moon was made of a really nice applewood smoked bacon with a wonderful marbeling... we need to quadruple the NASA budget, roll them into the DOD and we must claim the land for mother USA.
 
2014-03-25 09:53:16 AM
I think the case Reid is making is a bit of a stretch. I can probably make a better, albeit still weak, case for Russia justifying it's aggression because Putin is aware that after the failure of Iraq, Americans have temporarily lost their taste for war. Another case that can be made is that if the world economy was healthier, Europe and the U.S. could have really battered the Russians with sanctions but they just don't want to rock the economic boat too hard just now.

But none of those compare with Benghazi. So it's really all Obama's fault.
 
2014-03-25 09:53:59 AM

MattStafford: Why is it unpatriotic to let Russia annex Crimea?  The Crimean people wanted to join, and the Ukrainian government was unconstitutionally overthrown.

Suppose we gave Hawaii its independence back in the 80s.  We still had Pearl Harbor there through some kind of agreement, of course, and for the sake of argument, that was our only naval base in the Pacific.  Our Pacific presence would be seriously hurt by losing it.  Now suppose the historically pro US government in Hawaii was ousted unconstitutionally by a pro Chinese mob.  Oahu (island with Pearl Harbor) has a significant US population, and wants to join back up officially.  Parts of the new pro Chinese government want to kick the US out of Pearl Harbor.

How do we respond?  How should we respond?


We just arrange another vote, where we only allow white military personnel to vote and ban all the natives from voting to agree a rejoin. If it worked the first time Hawaii was annexed it would work again.
 
2014-03-25 09:55:41 AM

t3knomanser: Look, I don't want to be all pro-Russia or anything, but Crimea is ethnically Russian. It's a culturally distinct region from most of the rest of the Ukraine. In other words, this is another case where Europe has drawn borders with no regard to anything other than political expediency, and now powerful factions want to redraw the borders, and the whole thing is just ass and Europe, stop being so ancient and old and full of cultural history that leads to conflict.


Why is it that here in the US we are all Oh we must be socially diverse, acceptiong of other cultures but we are culturally backwards to all of the racist clanish all of europe.
 
2014-03-25 09:57:47 AM

sprawl15: We all know the moon is not made out of cheese. But what if the moon was made of barbecued spare ribs?

How do we respond? How should we respond?


cdn.buzznet.com


IT'S A SIMPLE QUESTION!
 
2014-03-25 09:58:17 AM

t3knomanser: Look, I don't want to be all pro-Russia or anything, but Crimea is ethnically Russian. It's a culturally distinct region from most of the rest of the Ukraine. In other words, this is another case where Europe has drawn borders with no regard to anything other than political expediency, and now powerful factions want to redraw the borders, and the whole thing is just ass and Europe, stop being so ancient and old and full of cultural history that leads to conflict.


Crimea is ethnically Russian because the Russians deported and killed most of the population.
 
2014-03-25 10:01:00 AM

MattStafford: Why is it unpatriotic to let Russia annex Crimea?  The Crimean people wanted to join, and the Ukrainian government was unconstitutionally overthrown.

Suppose we gave Hawaii its independence back in the 80s.  We still had Pearl Harbor there through some kind of agreement, of course, and for the sake of argument, that was our only naval base in the Pacific.  Our Pacific presence would be seriously hurt by losing it.  Now suppose the historically pro US government in Hawaii was ousted unconstitutionally by a pro Chinese mob.  Oahu (island with Pearl Harbor) has a significant US population, and wants to join back up officially.  Parts of the new pro Chinese government want to kick the US out of Pearl Harbor.

How do we respond?  How should we respond?


That's a pretty accurate comparison, which is why I was confused about the woman the other week who was crucified for even saying something like "I understand why the Russians did it," because it's not like we wouldn't do the same damn thing with our bases in Okinawa if Japan had a pro-Chinese coup. Hell, we maybe wouldn't even have the decency to stage mock elections. We'd probably just build a wall like we did in Cuba and refuse to leave.
 
2014-03-25 10:01:40 AM
How is this a surprise? The GOP would fully support total thermonuclear annihilation of this planet if they thought it would "stick it to Obama."

See: Denying millions of their own states' citizens healthcare/Medicaid to "stick it to Obama."
 
2014-03-25 10:02:24 AM
24.media.tumblr.com
 
2014-03-25 10:05:00 AM

t3knomanser: Look, I don't want to be all pro-Russia or anything, but Crimea is ethnically Russian. It's a culturally distinct region from most of the rest of the Ukraine. In other words, this is another case where Europe has drawn borders with no regard to anything other than political expediency, and now powerful factions want to redraw the borders, and the whole thing is just ass and Europe, stop being so ancient and old and full of cultural history that leads to conflict.


Borders and sovereignty should not be farked with.  Crimea might have had a case for separation from Ukraine but that was up to the Ukraine to manage and deal with.

I'm Canadian and I wouldn't appreciate France repatriating Quebec.  Nor would Americans appreciate Mexico repatriating California.

/timescale are much shorter I realize
 
2014-03-25 10:06:02 AM

kbronsito: I can probably make a better, albeit still weak, case for Russia justifying it's aggression because Putin is aware that after the failure of Iraq, Americans have temporarily lost their taste for war.


Even if Iraq and Afghanistan never happened, it would still be foolhardy to get involved militarily in Crimea or Ukraine.  Russia has too big a logistical advantage.
 
2014-03-25 10:06:05 AM

sprawl15: We all know the moon is not made out of cheese. But what if the moon was made of barbecued spare ribs?

How do we respond? How should we respond?


We nuke it, then use nets on satellites to haul back all the tasty crispy pig flesh....


*drool*
 
2014-03-25 10:07:17 AM

mrshowrules: I'm Canadian and I wouldn't appreciate France repatriating Quebec.  Nor would Americans appreciate Mexico repatriating California.


If they went after Texas ....
 
2014-03-25 10:08:42 AM

t3knomanser: Look, I don't want to be all pro-Russia or anything, but Crimea is ethnically Russian. It's a culturally distinct region from most of the rest of the Ukraine. In other words, this is another case where Europe has drawn borders with no regard to anything other than political expediency, and now powerful factions want to redraw the borders, and the whole thing is just ass and Europe, stop being so ancient and old and full of cultural history that leads to conflict.


Tell that to the Tatars.
 
2014-03-25 10:09:15 AM

mrshowrules: Nor would Americans appreciate Mexico repatriating California.


Most Americans would happily substitute Texas for California however.
 
2014-03-25 10:10:12 AM

Muta: mrshowrules: I'm Canadian and I wouldn't appreciate France repatriating Quebec.  Nor would Americans appreciate Mexico repatriating California.

If they went after Texas ....


Well dammit.  Refresh is my friend.
 
2014-03-25 10:15:07 AM

t3knomanser: Look, I don't want to be all pro-Russia or anything, but Crimea is ethnically Russian. It's a culturally distinct region from most of the rest of the Ukraine. In other words, this is another case where Europe has drawn borders with no regard to anything other than political expediency, and now powerful factions want to redraw the borders, and the whole thing is just ass and Europe, stop being so ancient and old and full of cultural history that leads to conflict.


And El Paso is ethnically Mexican. So what? Crimea was a Ukrainian possession. Ukraine had agreements that gave Russia fairly extensive rights to the naval base, as well as transit rights. Crimea was considered part of Ukraine during the Soviet era as well. Putin had no right to use his military power to take it.

And while I think Reid is full of hyperbole there's no doubt that many GOP reps LOVE Putin and want to eat his baby batter. Its sad that I hear so much bull from right wing morons that idolize a Oligarch dictator. If they  said half the stuff they said in Russia they'd be dumped in the gulag by now, no doubt.
 
2014-03-25 10:15:37 AM

AirForceVet: FTA:Outlining the Senate's agenda after a one-week recess, the Nevada Democrat said the first item would be the Ukraine bill that Republicans blocked just before lawmakers went on break. He urged Republicans to consider "how their obstruction affects United States' national security as well as the people of Ukraine" and said their delay of any congressional action "sent a dangerous message to Russian leaders."

Also, the Republicans opposing President Obama hitting the Syrian government, a client state of the Russians, with cruise missiles in resposne to using chemical weapons in their civil war didn't help either, IMHO.


It wasn't just Republicans being against military force in Syria, it was the majority of the country along with many Democrats.

Rep. Barbara Lee (D-Calif.): A leading anti-war liberal, she convinced more than 60 colleagues to sign a similar letter to Obama and remains opposed to military action. Given her vocal stance, she could be especially influential over colleagues in the Congressional Black Caucus, a bloc of more than 40 votes that the White House will need to ensure passage of a resolution in the closely-divided House.
Undecided Senate Democrats: There are several senators who caucus with Democrats who say they are skeptical of military action and will need to be convinced to support a resolution, especially if Reid needs a supermajority of 60 senators to ward off a threatened filibuster. This group includes Sens. Joe Manchin III (W. Va.) and Angus King (I-Maine), who could be a key independent swing vote in either direction.


Also, if I might add, if Reid were so concerned about Ukraine, not only would they have brought a "clean" bill to be voted upon instead of weighing it down with IMF regulations, or they would have voted on one of the already passed House Bills.
This is just partisan hyperbole on the part of Harry Reid, nothing more.
 
2014-03-25 10:19:26 AM

sprawl15: We all know the moon is not made out of cheese. But what if the moon was made of barbecued spare ribs?

How do we respond? How should we respond?


What is different about the Russian scenario and the scenario that I proposed?  Do you think the US would willingly give up a strategically important military base located on foreign territory after an unconstitutional overthrow of the government by a pro Chinese force?
 
2014-03-25 10:21:38 AM

Barry Lyndon's Annuity Cheque: That's a pretty accurate comparison, which is why I was confused about the woman the other week who was crucified for even saying something like "I understand why the Russians did it," because it's not like we wouldn't do the same damn thing with our bases in Okinawa if Japan had a pro-Chinese coup. Hell, we maybe wouldn't even have the decency to stage mock elections. We'd probably just build a wall like we did in Cuba and refuse to leave.


Yeah, maybe I'm missing something here.  Ukrainian government overthrown.  Part of the new government wants to kick Russians out of Sevastopol.  Russia does not want to lose Sevastopol.  Russia takes Crimea.

Does anyone honestly think that the US would not do the exact same thing, if not worse in an identical situation?
 
2014-03-25 10:23:47 AM

MattStafford: Barry Lyndon's Annuity Cheque: That's a pretty accurate comparison, which is why I was confused about the woman the other week who was crucified for even saying something like "I understand why the Russians did it," because it's not like we wouldn't do the same damn thing with our bases in Okinawa if Japan had a pro-Chinese coup. Hell, we maybe wouldn't even have the decency to stage mock elections. We'd probably just build a wall like we did in Cuba and refuse to leave.

Yeah, maybe I'm missing something here.  Ukrainian government overthrown.  Part of the new government wants to kick Russians out of Sevastopol.  Russia does not want to lose Sevastopol.  Russia takes Crimea.

Does anyone honestly think that the US would not do the exact same thing, if not worse in an identical situation?


You think we would attack Japanese forces and take over Okinawa if the Japanese wanted us gone?

No I do not think the US would do that.
 
2014-03-25 10:27:27 AM

kbronsito: I think the case Reid is making is a bit of a stretch. I can probably make a better, albeit still weak, case for Russia justifying it's aggression because Putin is aware that after the failure of Iraq, Americans have temporarily lost their taste for war. Another case that can be made is that if the world economy was healthier, Europe and the U.S. could have really battered the Russians with sanctions but they just don't want to rock the economic boat too hard just now.

But none of those compare with Benghazi. So it's really all Obama's fault.


Remember before we went to war with Iraq because of 9/11, WMDs, and freedomz, and any sort of questioning of the President or Congress received a response of "traitor" or "Iffn you don't like it, you can get the hell out"?  Good times, good times.

I wonder what was different then.
 
2014-03-25 10:28:02 AM

redmid17: You think we would attack Japanese forces and take over Okinawa if the Japanese wanted us gone?

No I do not think the US would do that.


If there was an overthrow of the Japanese government by pro Chinese politicians that wanted us out of Okinawa?  I absolutely think we would.
 
2014-03-25 10:30:22 AM

born_yesterday: kbronsito: I think the case Reid is making is a bit of a stretch. I can probably make a better, albeit still weak, case for Russia justifying it's aggression because Putin is aware that after the failure of Iraq, Americans have temporarily lost their taste for war. Another case that can be made is that if the world economy was healthier, Europe and the U.S. could have really battered the Russians with sanctions but they just don't want to rock the economic boat too hard just now.

But none of those compare with Benghazi. So it's really all Obama's fault.

Remember before we went to war with Iraq because of 9/11, WMDs, and freedomz, and any sort of questioning of the President or Congress received a response of "traitor" or "Iffn you don't like it, you can get the hell out"?  Good times, good times.

I wonder what was different then.


And just think, we've got our chance for a sequel in 2016. Won't it be grand?
 
2014-03-25 10:34:08 AM
Democrats: The real party of personal responsibility. So long as that person is a member of the GOP.
 
2014-03-25 10:34:58 AM

MattStafford: redmid17: You think we would attack Japanese forces and take over Okinawa if the Japanese wanted us gone?

No I do not think the US would do that.

If there was an overthrow of the Japanese government by pro Chinese politicians that wanted us out of Okinawa?  I absolutely think we would.


I would tend to doubt it. It's not like that situation has *ever* happened in US history

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guantanamo_Bay_Naval_Base
 
2014-03-25 10:35:54 AM

MattStafford: redmid17: You think we would attack Japanese forces and take over Okinawa if the Japanese wanted us gone?

No I do not think the US would do that.

If there was an overthrow of the Japanese government by pro Chinese politicians that wanted us out of Okinawa?  I absolutely think we would.


Since we already have the soldiers there, we wouldn't even have to present the farce that "unidentified" pro-American paramilitaries took over the base. It would be an even easier argument to make. Give the order not to fire on anyone and it would look pretty similar to Crimea.
 
2014-03-25 10:35:59 AM

trotsky: And while I think Reid is full of hyperbole there's no doubt that many GOP reps LOVE Putin and want to eat his baby batter. Its sad that I hear so much bull from right wing morons that idolize a Oligarch dictator. If they said half the stuff they said in Russia they'd be dumped in the gulag by now, no doubt.


I don't understand this line of thinking, I've not seen a single Republican express admiration or adoration for Putin. I see them complaining that Obama is looking weak, making mis-steps and being played by Putin, I've also seen them say that Putin has played this well - none of which expresses love or devotion to the man but an acknowledges that we're being out manuevered.

Can anyone point to a specific example of Republican Love for Putin? (No, I don't count GW's soulful look into his eyes)
 
2014-03-25 10:36:12 AM

redmid17: MattStafford: redmid17: You think we would attack Japanese forces and take over Okinawa if the Japanese wanted us gone?

No I do not think the US would do that.

If there was an overthrow of the Japanese government by pro Chinese politicians that wanted us out of Okinawa?  I absolutely think we would.

I would tend to doubt it. It's not like that situation has *ever* happened in US history

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guantanamo_Bay_Naval_Base


And yes I know we sponsored the Bay of Pigs invasion, but there was a whole sale takeover of Cuba by American forces. Suspiciously it seems that the communist Cuban government is still in power.
 
2014-03-25 10:39:40 AM

CanisNoir: trotsky: And while I think Reid is full of hyperbole there's no doubt that many GOP reps LOVE Putin and want to eat his baby batter. Its sad that I hear so much bull from right wing morons that idolize a Oligarch dictator. If they said half the stuff they said in Russia they'd be dumped in the gulag by now, no doubt.

I don't understand this line of thinking, I've not seen a single Republican express admiration or adoration for Putin. I see them complaining that Obama is looking weak, making mis-steps and being played by Putin, I've also seen them say that Putin has played this well - none of which expresses love or devotion to the man but an acknowledges that we're being out manuevered.

Can anyone point to a specific example of Republican Love for Putin? (No, I don't count GW's soulful look into his eyes)


We love Putin soooo much lets arm the Ukrainians and start a war with him.... seems legit.
 
2014-03-25 10:39:52 AM

born_yesterday: kbronsito: I think the case Reid is making is a bit of a stretch. I can probably make a better, albeit still weak, case for Russia justifying it's aggression because Putin is aware that after the failure of Iraq, Americans have temporarily lost their taste for war. Another case that can be made is that if the world economy was healthier, Europe and the U.S. could have really battered the Russians with sanctions but they just don't want to rock the economic boat too hard just now.

But none of those compare with Benghazi. So it's really all Obama's fault.

Remember before we went to war with Iraq because of 9/11, WMDs, and freedomz, and any sort of questioning of the President or Congress received a response of "traitor" or "Iffn you don't like it, you can get the hell out"?  Good times, good times.

I wonder what was different then.


There wasn't a blah man in the White House.
 
2014-03-25 10:41:28 AM

s2s2s2: Democrats: The real party of personal responsibility. So long as that person is a member of the GOP.


Perhaps you would care to expand on this amazingly profound line of thought.
 
2014-03-25 10:42:21 AM

MattStafford: redmid17: You think we would attack Japanese forces and take over Okinawa if the Japanese wanted us gone?

No I do not think the US would do that.

If there was an overthrow of the Japanese government by pro Chinese politicians that wanted us out of Okinawa?  I absolutely think we would.


Overthrow? Ukrainians protested. After a shooting match broke out and the rest of the world was like "WTF Ukraine?", the government set up a new election. Before that new election happened, Brave Sir Yanu ran away, so they had to install a temporary government until they could have elections. I'd hardly call that overthrowing a government.

Oh, and don;t forget that Yanu was also terribly corrupt.
 
2014-03-25 10:44:58 AM
Authoritarians do love an authoritarian.

Makes me wonder why they hate Obama?
 
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