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(Salon)   As the Supreme Court prepares to hear the Obamacare/birth control case tomorrow, its conservative justices are faced with a dilemma: support the religious right, or support laws which shield corporations from liability?   (salon.com) divider line 256
    More: Fail, Supreme Court, U.S. Supreme Court, obamacare, moral dilemma, religious values, racial identity, hypocrisy, conservatisms  
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2462 clicks; posted to Politics » on 24 Mar 2014 at 6:07 PM (27 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-03-25 01:02:06 PM

TheBigJerk: Animatronik: Lee Jackson Beauregard: Animatronik: You like single payer because it is one more step towards zOMG SOOOOOOCIALISM

Four legs good, two legs baaaaaaaad!

Yeah there are lots of pigs and cows in this thread.

You like single payer because you think it eliminates the inconvenience of having to deal with small groups of people that have am actual opinion on something you want.

The reality is that this is not about one or two companies it is about a set of requirements for paying for contraception as a health care benefit that are RIDICULOUS and should be thrown out.

Contraception us not health care, period.

[i75.photobucket.com image 357x640]

But hey, understanding medicine is for suckers, only letters I need to know are U, S, and A.  Right?


oh... snap
 
2014-03-25 02:07:15 PM

TheBigJerk: Animatronik: Lee Jackson Beauregard: Animatronik: You like single payer because it is one more step towards zOMG SOOOOOOCIALISM

Four legs good, two legs baaaaaaaad!

Yeah there are lots of pigs and cows in this thread.

You like single payer because you think it eliminates the inconvenience of having to deal with small groups of people that have am actual opinion on something you want.

The reality is that this is not about one or two companies it is about a set of requirements for paying for contraception as a health care benefit that are RIDICULOUS and should be thrown out.

Contraception us not health care, period.

[i75.photobucket.com image 357x640]

But hey, understanding medicine is for suckers, only letters I need to know are U, S, and A.  Right?


Somebody should just start marketing a "period control pill" that has contraception as a side effect instead of a "birth control pill" that has period regulation as a side effect.  Problem solved, money made, right?
 
2014-03-25 07:04:48 PM

The Numbers: NIXON YOU DOLT!!!!!: vernonFL: If they rule in favor of "religious freedom" , would't that open up the USA to "Sharia Law" which everyone is so against?

This. Boss is a JW? Got cancer? Sorry, no transfusions for you.

That's exactly why a ruling in favor of Hobby Lobby is, long term, the best outcome for the healthcare system in this country. It creates the need for the government to get involved to make up the shortfall in coverage with a 'religion-free' public option. That's how Obamacare moves us to single layer - it has to fall to pieces in such a way as to bring down the concept of employer-provided health insurance in the collapse.


Huh.  I had not considered that angle.  That's actually...interesting.  I don't think it could play out, though. The repubs will rail against any public option and block it at any cost.  I think it would end up derailing the reforms overall.
 
2014-03-26 02:02:41 AM
You guys know Hobby Lobby isn't refusing to pay for the pill, right?

http://www.snopes.com/politics/medical/hobbylobby.asp

Kyle Duncan, general counsel for the Becket Fund, who is defending Hobby Lobby in the HHS lawsuit, [said] that although he does not know exactly what transpired at the company's headquarters, he has read the petition.
"The petition is misleading. It makes it seem as if Hobby Lobby is seeking to exclude birth control from its health plan all together. That's just not true. The Green family and Hobby Lobby do not have any religious objection to birth control per se. Their plans have covered preventive contraceptives and will continue to do so," Duncan said.
"What Hobby Lobby objects to and the reason they sued is because the HHS mandate forces Hobby Lobby to include a specific kind of drug," he explained.
The drugs are called Plan B and Levonelle, otherwise known as "the morning-after pill" and "the week-after pill."
"For many people, [the pills] are not even considered birth control because the way they operate is to prevent the implantation of an egg in the womb. For millions of Americans that take the traditional Christian view that life begins at conception, that amounts to an early abortion," Duncan said. "The petition totally misses that and instead says that 'Hobby Lobby is denying women birth control and therefore denying health care.' So, the premise of the petition is wrong."


They are refusing to pay for IUDs and abortion pills.  That's it.

And they aren't firing women for using them.  They're just saying, not on our dime.

It's dishonest to claim Hobby Lobby is trying to keep women from regulating their periods.  If you're gonna argue the issue, argue the facts.
 
2014-03-26 02:56:49 AM

Occam's Nailfile: They are refusing to pay for IUDs and abortion pills.  That's it.


That 's enough, really.

If you're gonna argue the issue, argue the facts.

You mean we should stress what stupid ignorant bigoted religious embarrassments they are to progressive society and what an insult they are to enlightened people who champion women's rights?

Sounds great.
 
2014-03-26 03:50:32 AM

Occam's Nailfile: They are refusing to pay for IUDs and abortion pills. That's it.

And they aren't firing women for using them. They're just saying, not on our dime.


First of all, if you consider this to be on "their" dime, EVERYTHING their employees do is on "their" dime.  A benefits package is part of their employees compensation, it belongs to the employee and not to them.  They should no more have the right to dictate what their employees can or can't do with their health care than they should have the right to dictate what they can and can't do with the money they pay them.

Secondly, IT DOESN'T MATTER exactly what it is they're trying to prevent their employees from using.  If they're able to successfully claim that their company should possess the same religious rights that its owner does, every single CEO in the world will suddenly find religion.  They're going to use the exact same reasoning to say that they shouldn't have to cover health care at all because they're Christian Scientists who don't believe in blood transfusions or all sorts of other expensive medical treatment, and thus their company shouldn't be required to provide it.

One might (stupidly) argue that this is ridiculous because IUD's are not the same as blood transfusions.  The problem is that the reasoning used to deny coverage for EITHER of them is exactly the same.  It could thus be argued that providing exceptions for some religious beliefs and not others is a law respecting an establishment of religion, and would be unconstitutional.

They don't -- and shouldn't -- have the right to inflict their religious beliefs on their employees.  They're a for-profit company; they have to abide by all the rules that every other for-profit company does and shouldn't get to deprive their employees of the rights and protections that employees of any other company enjoy.  Freedom of religion is a shield to protect the deprivation of your own personal religious rights, not a weapon that can be used to interfere with others who are doing things you disagree with.  If you operate a for-profit company you do so with that understanding.  If you can't deal with that, GTFO.
 
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