If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(The Raw Story)   Creationist Ken Ham says that "God is a God of grace and mercy" and will demonstrate this by roasting Bill Maher in a "lake which burns with fire and brimstone" for eternity   (rawstory.com) divider line 126
    More: Amusing, Ken Ham, Bill Maher, Bill Nye, the Science Guy, roasts, mercy, PZ Myers, righteousness, lakes  
•       •       •

6789 clicks; posted to Main » on 24 Mar 2014 at 1:01 PM (22 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



Voting Results (Smartest)
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

2014-03-24 01:34:58 PM
9 votes:
i939.photobucket.com
2014-03-24 01:14:13 PM
9 votes:
Christianity is inherently wacky, so it's not surprising when Christians say wacky things.

I mean, it's a cult based on Jewish beliefs, but they think the Jews...the only source of information regarding the deity they worship...are all wrong. Think about that.

They (if they speak English) call their deity "God," which is somewhat akin to calling your dog "Dog" and getting mad when other people with other dogs don't recognise the primacy of Dog. Hello, your Hebrew god has a name. It's not "God." That's just capitalising a Germanic word (like Dog).

After rejecting the understandings of the deity held by those they nicked the concept of said deity from, they then re-imagined said deity as an super-god, granting him all kinds of special position and powers that are wholly inconsistent with the earlier lore of said god. It's like if a bunch of people adopted Shango and transformed him into the ultimate deity, called him Bob, and told people of African descent that they never really got Shango, because he's Bob, and reasons.

By nature, Christians are psychotically arrogant. It's the entire basis of their religion.
2014-03-24 01:19:45 PM
8 votes:

Facetious_Speciest: By nature, Christians are psychotically arrogant. It's the entire basis of their religion.
Farked in the head. They hear voices, and should not have access to weapons.


Period.
Also, they need to STFU around anyone while out in public.

Religion is like a gun or a dick.
Ok to have one.
Ok to be proud of it.
Not Ok to wave it around in public, or ram it down kids throats.

If your farking religion is so farking true, then you don't have to "Indoctrinate" children with it, they will discover it as true on their own.
Of course, if your religion is full of shait and made up fairy tales, and circular logic, then perhaps they won't bite, and "indoctrinating" them is your only hope of keeping a following.
Assholes.
2014-03-24 01:16:22 PM
6 votes:
Look, I don't know what's so hard to understand here. God snaps his fingers and wills two full-grown adults into existence, but does a shiat job on their programming gets pissed off and visits terrible vengeance upon them, then later gets pissed off again and drowns everyone, and then he's still pissed about a rule he made up so he "sacrifices" (in that he dies, but he comes back a few days later, so it's not really a sacrifice) himself to himself in order to change that rule, and then because he's come off as such an asshole  in the story, in the sequel to the Old Testament they completely retcon him as happy loving funtime god, and the point here is that he loves you and sacrifices for you and wants to give you good things, but if you don't toe the line, he's gonna torture you forever and ever. So shape up and fly right. God loves you, but sometimes, baby, you just make him so mad.
2014-03-24 02:15:24 PM
5 votes:
You know why con men prey overwhelmingly on the religious?

They've already demonstrated their gullibility.
2014-03-24 01:16:42 PM
5 votes:
media.ifunny.com
2014-03-24 12:14:49 PM
5 votes:

Secret Agent X23: I dunno, Ken...that wording sounds awfully polytheistic to me.


Yeah, what's this "a" God nonsense?

But then again, doesn't the first commandment tacitly admit the existence of other gods?
2014-03-24 11:47:01 AM
5 votes:
What an asshole. Maher, too.

Send them to Thunderdome.
2014-03-24 01:59:20 PM
4 votes:

Some 'Splainin' To Do: I have heard that there is evidence that Judaism started out as polytheistic


Judaism was a polytheistic religion. During the Babylonian Exile the priest class was exposed to Zoroastrianism and the concept of Monotheism. This got them thinking "maybe the reason our god lets everybody pick on us despite the fact we're supposed to be his chosen ones is because not only are we supposed to have no other gods before him, we're supposed to have no other gods period".

One of the first to get chucked was the goddess Asherah who was essentially god's wife.

There are still odd little polytheistic Jewish cults in the middle east to this very day. Just like there are some really weird ancient Christian cults around the middle east too.
2014-03-24 01:33:35 PM
4 votes:

allylloyd: Bane of Broone: allylloyd: After reading some of these posts, I don't know whose stereotypes are worse, the Atheists or the Christians?

They're both hilarious, but I'm an Atheist and even I'll admit that Atheists are usually easier to get riled up. I don't get it either. Aren't we supposed to be euphoric? :p

Since I'm not an atheist, I can't speak for atheists. However, I am a Christian, so when I hear a Christian say something ignorant, two thoughts come to mind:
1) They have a different interpretation of Scripture than I do or
2) They are just really ignorant.

//Sometimes it's a combination of both.


I hear you on that one. My gal is a Christian, but believes in evolution, kindness towards EVERYONE, is pro-choice, fiercely liberal....all that jazz. She doesn't care one bit about contradictions in a book that is thousands of years old. She finds comfort and inspiration in it and uses it to better her own life. So when people come out with "All Christians" or "All religions" stuff it just shows that they are willfully ignorant of people like a drug addict who uses it to stay clean, a person who becomes inspired to be a better, more understanding partner/parent/whatever. I don't care what tools you use to become a better person. "Religion" and "Christianity" are just red herrings (inb4 Clue). Fundies, no matter what side they fall on, are just too lazy to deal with problems on an individual level.
2014-03-24 01:25:24 PM
4 votes:

Nabb1: What an asshole. Maher, too.

Send them to Thunderdome.


Yeah, Maher is the asshole for pointing out what utterly, categorically evil things suddenly become holy and wonderful if you convince yourself that God wills them.  The character of God in the bible would not be admirable were he your next door neighbor, and yet billions of people put his alleged demands and desires ahead of the peace and happiness of their actual neighbor. It's good to have that drilled into people as often as possible. Religion deserves to be mocked and I'm glad we live in a time period when religions' ability to set themselves in a position immune to mockery is at an end.
2014-03-24 01:15:29 PM
4 votes:
Christians find the concept of hell not existing more offensive than god not existing.
2014-03-24 12:38:45 PM
4 votes:
Oh Internet, you never disappoint:

iguessimagrownup.files.wordpress.com
2014-03-24 12:06:56 PM
4 votes:

Nabb1: What an asshole. Maher, too.

Send them to Thunderdome.


maher is supposed to be an asshole; that's his schtick.
2014-03-24 03:30:09 PM
3 votes:
My God is all about love ...
img.fark.net
2014-03-24 02:53:59 PM
3 votes:

Rueened: Stay classy, atheists. It's amusing to see you getting so worked up about something you don't believe in.


It's cute that you would put it that way, but you know full well why many atheists actually get riled up, and it's got nothing to do with god.  Being disingenuous is not a very good argument.
2014-03-24 02:02:39 PM
3 votes:

Satanic_Hamster: Notice Ham doesn't even address Maher's point about the Flood.


You aren't supposed to question, just accept.
*snert*

CSB
I got kicked out of vacation bible school for asking about the garden of eden and original sin. I said that if Jesus died on the cross to wipe out our sins, why were women still punished for the original sin, and babies born into sin? I also wanted to know how if God knew everything, he didn't know that Adam and Eve would eat the apple and acted suprised when they admitted it. I was 12 years old when I realized I was being lied to and misled.
/csb
2014-03-24 01:51:50 PM
3 votes:

Nabb1: What an asshole. Maher, too.

Send them to Thunderdome.


I'm not sure I see the logic of this.

What did Maher say that was assholish at all? All he did was point out an obvious contradiction - the "loving and kind god of forgiveness who will torture people for infinity years for basically no good reason, even if they're good people. How a figure which is clearly the most monstrously evil figure ever described by people in history as being touted as some kind of kind and loving figure makes no sense whatsoever.

Ham then, without a hunt of irony or self-awareness, reinforced that contradiction without a moment's thought or hesitation...

And you think Maher is the asshole? What are you smoking today an why aren't you sharing?
2014-03-24 01:41:23 PM
3 votes:
As H. P. Lovecraft said...

If religion were true, its followers would not try to bludgeon their young into an artificial conformity; but would merely insist on their unbending quest for truth, irrespective of artificial backgrounds or practical consequences.
2014-03-24 01:37:20 PM
3 votes:

Killer Cars: FlashHarry: maher is supposed to be an asshole; that's his schtick.

True, but Maher especially embodies "liberal smugness" to most conservatives.


Simply saying that "2+2=4" is seen as "liberal smugness" to most conservatives.

(and those few who are smart enough to know 2+2=4 keep their mouths shut lest they be attacked by the rightwing horde of baboons screaming "RINO! RINO!")
2014-03-24 01:34:52 PM
3 votes:
How these "christians" see themselves:
ts3.mm.bing.net

What they are really like:
img123.imageshack.us
2014-03-24 01:31:49 PM
3 votes:
www.quotespedia.info

Ken Ham is a lying, greedy sack of shiat.
2014-03-24 01:27:22 PM
3 votes:
I just don't understand why we keep reporting on grown-ass adults who believe in fairy-tales as if their insane ravings were worthy of consideration.
2014-03-24 12:47:07 PM
3 votes:
Grace and Mercy for me, but not for thee.

Isn't it great when God hates all the same people you hate?
2014-03-24 12:33:43 PM
3 votes:
Bill Maher is blaming God for death because he does not want to accept that he is a sinner in need of salvation. He wants to be his own god - he shakes his fist at the God who created man and also provides the gift of salvation for those who will receive it.

Why is it so hard for these Ken Ham types to accept at face value that some people just don't believe in God?

I am assuming (and this may be a big assumption) that Ken Ham doesn't believe in Santa Claus. Yet I am pretty sure he would view as absurd the assertion that he is "mad at Santa Claus". It isn't that hard a concept.
2014-03-25 10:37:49 AM
2 votes:

allylloyd: I think that some of you need to learn what the word RESPECT means. If a person says they have a belief, they don't have to define or justify that belief to another person, least of all, someone on the internet who is rude and obnoxious.


memedepot.com


I've been involved in a lot of discussions on this site over the years, and the treatment you've been getting in this discussion has been remarkably patient, tolerant, and polite. you're going to need to grow a thicker skin if you're going to be having discussions about religion on the internet, child.

The fact that you're apparently unable to even understand the questions that are being asked of you, much less respond to them in a meaningful, direct, substantial way is not an indication of rudeness on the part of the people asking. If you don't want to talk about your religion, don't come into a discussion to offer your condescending ("I'll explain it to you in simple language") explanations of religious issues. if you don't want to explain your faith, don't reply to people who ask you questions about why you believe the way you do.

But to get involved in such a discussion and then get offended when people point out that your answers are illogical, don't make sense, or don't actually answer the question they asked? Poor you, always the victim, always persecuted. Line on the left, one cross each


Sofa King Smart: The question you were supposed to be answering was: why episcopalian? why not catholic, or other protestant variant? baptist, southern baptist, jehovah's witness, evangelical Presbyterian snake handler...

and we all know the answer to that... because that was the sect of christianity that you grew up in and were spoon fed... you didn't consider any other 'version' of christianity, you didn't look at the issues that caused the splits in the various Christian sects... let alone even question christianity as 'the one true religion'... you didn't compare and contrast christianity to islam or judiaism, you didn't read about the various other popular non-abrahamic religions... you chose to conform without putting much thought into it... it was the easy answer.


Indeed.
2014-03-24 03:43:15 PM
2 votes:

Valiente: You know what God doesn't like? Ham.

You know what he does? Foreskins.

That'll do, Pig, that'll do.


img.fark.net
2014-03-24 03:36:30 PM
2 votes:

Rueened: Gecko Gingrich: Rueened: Stay classy, atheists. It's amusing to see you getting so worked up about something you don't believe in.

Though I may not believe in any god, I also - and as emphatically - believe they shouldn't be forced upon me either.

Dry your eyes princess, no-one is forcing anything on you.


So long as Christians demand that their belief in creationism, of which no real scientific evidence can be provided, be taught along science in classes.  You are trying to force things on us.

So long as Christians demand that an entire minority population should not have equal rights because of your  faith, you are forcing your beliefs on us.

So long as you try to make it illegal for a woman to choose whether or not she has a child because of your faith, you are forcing your beliefs on us.

So long as you try to prevent birth control from being provided in the insurance you provide as an employer or in insurance policies in general because of your faith, you are forcing your beliefs on us.
2014-03-24 03:22:25 PM
2 votes:

Rueened: Stay classy, atheists. It's amusing to see you getting so worked up about something you don't believe in.


Stay classy Christians. It's amusing to see you getting so worked up about abortion, homosexuality, and women's rights.

See, when Christians stop trying to force me through LEGAL means to accept their beliefs and turn my beloved country into a biblical theocracy, I will stop giving a shiat.
2014-03-24 03:13:48 PM
2 votes:

Mirrorz: We Answers Find in Our Genesis. Don't dead. Open Inside.

[i.imgur.com image 640x480]


hey look it's a bunch of abused children standing with their abuser.
2014-03-24 02:52:42 PM
2 votes:

eraser8: DROxINxTHExWIND: The tipping point for organized religion (not the existence of GOD)...

I'll try you...I've asked this question a couple of times already.  I'm really interested in your answer:

If you believe in a god, WHY do you believe in a god?

As, I noted in my earlier question, I've been thinking a lot lately about how religionists view the world and how atheists view the world -- and, whether the gap between those views can ever be bridged.



You know, I'll answer as honestly as I can...it's probably indoctrination, mixed with a little bit of "better to believe than to go to Hell" in the back of my mind. I've sat and pondered it myself. I have had life experiences where I felt that I was being protected. I fell into a coma when I was 6 months old and if not for a bunch of amazing circumstances, like my aunt just randomly deciding she wanted to visit me at my grandmother's house during her lunch break, only to find me in my crib having breathing problems, I would not be here. I've been shot at, been in major car accidents, and a lot of other shiat that I can't get into here. Was it all a coincidence that I made it through? Why was I worth saving? I don't know. But, it helps me to think that there is some order to life .I don't know how I would react upon realizing that after this, there is nothing. I've had too many people die around me to believe that the end of their life was just...the end. More than anything else, I think that belief in GOD is a coping mechanism. I'm hopeful this isn't all there is.
2014-03-24 02:28:39 PM
2 votes:

htomc: Rapmaster2000: People were pretty uncreative if the best they could come up with is "lake of fire".

Notice how everything is defined in purely human terms.  Just like heaven supposedly has "streets of gold".  Why in the world would there be any need at all for gold there?  What possible use could it have there, beyond looking somewhat nice?

It's all just humans appealing to other human's prejudices, fears, and desires.



I was raised Baptist. My grandmother was and still is a very influential member of our*** church. I think my problems with organized religion started with Baptist preachers and how they were viewed. When I was a chile, I thought that Pastor Tucker was Jesus' cousin or something. I literally thought that the pastor, not GOD or Jesus, but the pastor had the power to hear prayers. I realized as I got older that my perception of him had been shaped by the adults in the church who sort of treated him as an infalible symbol of GOD. I began to ask questions like, if GOD hears all of us, then why do I need a middle man to send my prayers up? If GOD is omnipresent, then why do I need to go into a specific building to ask for forgiveness or to pray for mercy? The answers that I got about fellowship and being around other godly people always rung hollow. The tipping point for organized religion (not the existence of GOD) was one night when I went to what Baptists call a revival. Its a week worth of guest preachers, hollering, shouting, and singing that we had once or twice every year. It was at a mega church in Largo, MD that was as big as a small neighborhood. During the sermon, the pastor told everyone to pull out their tithing envelopes. Those people who had them (most folks in the very large room) pulled them out. The pastor then instructed everyone to "hold them above your head and waive them at the devil". I sat in this church watching people gleefully waiving envelopes full of their money...and then I noticed the other people, like me, who had no envelope to waive. Most of them just kind of clapped, heads down, not really doing much as the person next to them who did have an envelope danced and sung loudly. Now, as a visitor, no one expected me to have one so it wasn't a problem. But what about these other people. The ones who maybe didn't have enough to give. The ones who just didn't want too. Here they were, being shamed into tithing by being put on public display in front of the other chuch members.
It's possible that I simply misintepreted the preacher's actions or I made something out of nothing to justify not going back to church. But, that moment does stick out to me as the moment when my religion changed. It became more about personal spiritual development than about group acceptance of my beliefs. My grandmother asks me probably once every couple of months when she's going to see me in church.


/I don't know, Grandma. But when I do go, it'll be for you.
//***can I really call it "our" church if I haven't been in over a year?
2014-03-24 02:27:14 PM
2 votes:

allylloyd: When God said "You shall have no other Gods but me", he was speaking to people who believed in Him but were also praying to other "gods" for repentance or help. In other words, if you believe in God, you must allow God to answer your prayers, and not go to another God because you don't like the answer he gives you.


So just rename them "Saints" and you get an ironclad loophole.

Checkmate, God!
2014-03-24 02:26:09 PM
2 votes:

NightOwl2255: formerfloozy: Satanic_Hamster: Notice Ham doesn't even address Maher's point about the Flood.

You aren't supposed to question, just accept.
*snert*

CSB
I got kicked out of vacation bible school for asking about the garden of eden and original sin. I said that if Jesus died on the cross to wipe out our sins, why were women still punished for the original sin, and babies born into sin? I also wanted to know how if God knew everything, he didn't know that Adam and Eve would eat the apple and acted suprised when they admitted it. I was 12 years old when I realized I was being lied to and misled.
/csb

I got into trouble for asking where Cain's wife came from. My brother told me to ask, should have known it was going to be a problem.


I've angered many people who are big fans of the God has a plan for us approach.  I asked them about the whole Adam and Eve apple thing.  They give the whole free will speech.  Then I ask if God is all knowing, how did he not realize that giving them free will would result in them ignoring his plan and eating the apple anyway and why would he have punished them if he knew what would happen if he created them.  Then I watch them talk circles around the subject until they get angry and walk away or find some other excuse.
Bf+
2014-03-24 02:04:27 PM
2 votes:

formerfloozy: Satanic_Hamster: Notice Ham doesn't even address Maher's point about the Flood.

You aren't supposed to question, just accept.
*snert*

CSB
I got kicked out of vacation bible school for asking about the garden of eden and original sin. I said that if Jesus died on the cross to wipe out our sins, why were women still punished for the original sin, and babies born into sin? I also wanted to know how if God knew everything, he didn't know that Adam and Eve would eat the apple and acted suprised when they admitted it. I was 12 years old when I realized I was being lied to and misled.
/csb


4.bp.blogspot.com
Can't have that...
Bf+
2014-03-24 01:53:40 PM
2 votes:
Did someone say overly attached Jesus?
static.fjcdn.com

31.media.tumblr.com
2014-03-24 01:47:17 PM
2 votes:
i59.tinypic.com
2014-03-24 01:41:20 PM
2 votes:

Bane of Broone: They're both hilarious, but I'm an Atheist and even I'll admit that Atheists are usually easier to get riled up. I don't get it either. Aren't we supposed to be euphoric? :p


How to rile up a "Christian": Include a menorah in a Holiday display.
How to rile up an atheist: Pass a law outlawing non-"Christian" behavior.
2014-03-24 01:33:08 PM
2 votes:
"It's a Mr. Ham on line 5, calling about creationism."
"OK, give me Ham on 5 and hold the Maher"
2014-03-24 01:30:53 PM
2 votes:

allylloyd: Slight misinterpretation.


I'm pretty sure Ba'al was mentioned later as another 'competing' god of different peoples.  I believe "Ba'al" generically translates as "Lord", as in Baalzebub = Lord of the Flies.

Obviously the old Testament wasn't written in English, but YHWH describes himself as a 'jealous god'.  The first two Commandments describe this jealousy, especially the first. Is he really going to get jealous of a rock or lump of metal?  If there were no other gods, wouldn't he have just said 'there are no other gods'?  It would be like me describing my wife as my 'favorite' wife.  The language implies there are others.
2014-03-24 01:24:25 PM
2 votes:

TomD9938: Some 'Splainin' To Do: I just don't understand the concept of hell. The idea of eternal punishment is just so  evil, that I don't understand how Christians rationalize it.

It's simply an incentive to obey your Earthly masters.

Don't steal, don't kill, don't screw your neighbors wife, pay your taxes, enjoy eternal life.


So, offer eternal life as the incentive and leave punishment to the secular authorities. Positive reinforcement and all that.

What disturbs me is that so many people honestly believe that the idea of eternal punishment for finite crimes can be morally justified. I don't get that. All I can guess is that most people don't really understand what the "eternal" in eternal punishment really implies.
2014-03-24 01:16:01 PM
2 votes:

NateAsbestos: Secret Agent X23: I dunno, Ken...that wording sounds awfully polytheistic to me.

Yeah, what's this "a" God nonsense?

But then again, doesn't the first commandment tacitly admit the existence of other gods?


Slight misinterpretation.

I'll explain it to you in simple language. Three faiths: Judaism, Christianity and Islam believe in ONE God (the same God). Judaism and Islam also believe in the Holy Spirit (as described in the Old Testament). Christianity believes in the Trinity (God=Father, God=Son (Jesus) and God= Holy Spirit) who they are equal in their "importance".
When God said "You shall have no other Gods but me", he was speaking to people who believed in Him but were also praying to other "gods" for repentance or help. In other words, if you believe in God, you must allow God to answer your prayers, and not go to another God because you don't like the answer he gives you.
2014-03-24 01:09:01 PM
2 votes:

gilgigamesh: Bill Maher is blaming God for death because he does not want to accept that he is a sinner in need of salvation. He wants to be his own god - he shakes his fist at the God who created man and also provides the gift of salvation for those who will receive it.

Why is it so hard for these Ken Ham types to accept at face value that some people just don't believe in God?

I am assuming (and this may be a big assumption) that Ken Ham doesn't believe in Santa Claus. Yet I am pretty sure he would view as absurd the assertion that he is "mad at Santa Claus". It isn't that hard a concept.


Certain fundies (and Ken Ham seems to be one of them) believe that humans exist ONLY as a reflection of God, and that there are no human acts that do not affect their relationship with the Creator. So even if Bill Maher doesn't believe in God, God believes in him and Maher's denial is a de facto act of defiance.

/Atheist, but I don't see any reason to proselytize about it. If you don't come to that conclusion yourself, then you're probably better off finding some mythology that suits you.
2014-03-24 01:06:24 PM
2 votes:
I just don't understand the concept of hell. The idea of eternal punishment is just so  evil, that I don't understand how Christians rationalize it.
2014-03-24 12:04:19 PM
2 votes:
The Christian Taliban is all about peace, love, and forgiveness, an accepting and gracious God of wonder.
amirite?
2014-03-24 11:42:21 AM
2 votes:
ken ham is psychotic.
2014-03-25 01:41:47 AM
1 votes:
The irony of religion is that because of its power to divert man to destructive courses, the world could actually come to an end... Plain fact is, religion must die for mankind to live. The hour is getting very late to be able to indulge having in key decisions made by religious people. By irrationalists. B those who would steer the ship of state not by a compass, but by the equivalent of reading the entrails of a chicken. George Bush prayed a lot about Iraq, but he didn't learn a lot about it...

Faith means making a virtue out of not thinking. It's nothing to brag about. And those who preach faith and enable and elevate it are intellectual slaveholders keeping mankind in a bondage to fantasy and nonsense that has spawned and justified so much lunacy and destruction. Religion is dangerous because it allows human beings who don't have all the answers to think that they do. Most people would think it's wonderful when someone says, "I'm willing, Lord! I'll do whatever you want me to do!" Except that since there are no gods actually talking to us, that void is filled in by people with their own corruptions and limitations and agendas...

And anyone who tells you they know, they just know what happens when you die, I promise you you don't. How can I be so sure? Because I don't know, and you do not possess mental powers that I do not. The only appropriate attitude for man to have about the big questions is not the arrogant certitude that is the hallmark of religion, but doubt. Doubt is humble, and that's what man needs to be, considering that human history is just a litany of getting shiat dead wrong...

This is why rational people, anti-religionists, must end their timidity and come out of the closet and assert themselves. And those who consider themselves only moderately religious really need to look in the mirror and realize that the solace and comfort that religion brings you comes at a horrible price... If you belonged to a political party or a social club that was tied to as much bigotry, misogyny, homophobia, violence, and sheer ignorance as religion is, you'd resign in protest. To do otherwise is to be an enabler, a mafia wife, for the true devils of extremism that draw their legitimacy from the billions of their fellow travelers. If the world does come to an end here, or wherever, or if it limps into the future, decimated by the effects of religion-inspired nuclear terrorism, let's remember what the real problem was. We learned how to precipitate mass death before we got past the neurological disorder of wishing for it. That's it. Grow up or die.
2014-03-25 12:45:39 AM
1 votes:
I think that some of you need to learn what the word RESPECT means. If a person says they have a belief, they don't have to define or justify that belief to another person, least of all, someone on the internet who is rude and obnoxious. Some of the people posting here have religious/spiritual beliefs; that is their right. Some people have no religious/spiritual beliefs and that is their right. Neither belief is better or worse than the other; they simply are what they are.


//Belief or no belief, we'll all know the answer at the end... Until then, PLAY NICE.
2014-03-24 09:06:16 PM
1 votes:
allylloyd:
//Read the article. Presiding Bishop Katherine gives an excellent explanation of the Episcopal Church and its members thoughts/ideas/POVs.

It seems to be the standard "move the goal posts" answer. At one time Genesis was believed to be the literal truth, science proved it differently then it became "Well, okay that part is not literal, but God was still in the equation, he just started the Big Bang".

So what about those generations of people who believed the literal interpretation of Genesis? Was God purposefully lying to them by denying the people who wrote the Bible the scientific truth of how the Universe was created? Or was Genesis just written by people who were basically making up what they thought was their best guess as to how the Universe came to be created and God had nothing to do with the writing of it.

If you're going to start picking and choosing what parts of the Bible are literal and what parts are just stories primitive goat herders made up to explain things they didn't understand then why start believing any of it? Why not just recognize it for what it is, legends and myths. The Bible just like any other religious tome is nothing but the ancient stories told by ancient people to entertain, act as morality plays, and try to explain things they couldn't understand.

How can one say "well the God of the ancient book I believe in is the real God, but the gods in the ancient books those other guys believe in are obviously just legends and myths"?

How can it not be obvious that they're ALL just legends and myths? The comic book fictions of primitive people who didn't know how to publish comic books.

What logical reason could there be to believe in one set of comic book mythologies over the others? I can understand being a "fan" of one set over another. Liking the myths of one ancient culture more that another. I love the ancient stories and can appreciate them without believing in them. I just don't understand what would making anyone believe they were true. It's as confusing to me as it would be to try to understand why someone believes that Batman is real.
2014-03-24 07:49:32 PM
1 votes:

Amish Tech Support: When your god creates an entire planet with his own powers. Then drowns all his creations in a horrible flood. Your god is a four year old with a sadistic streak.


I was thinking of writing a novel with that premise. . .with Satan as his wiser older sibling picking logical failings in the younger's behavior.  Jesus is simply a last ditch effort before retard-boy finally grows up and leaves his toy.  A toy that continues to grow even long after ant-farm-owner is gone.
2014-03-24 07:46:05 PM
1 votes:

whidbey: Ghastly: It's not a nonapodeictic, agnostic atheist nor a nonapodeictic, agnostic theist, nor even an apatheist position I take umbrage with but the further pollution of the English language with vagary and dilution for the purpose of setting one up as a special little snowflake, superior to all others.

I'd still urge you to get over it. And people who continue to question centuries of oppressive ideology are special to me, if anything, just for doing it.


The problem is, people who identify as CAPITAL-LETTER-A Agnostics don't question. They walk into the middle of the conversation, shiat on everyone participating then strut around claiming to have taken the superior position. It's contrarianism and nothing more.
2014-03-24 06:58:19 PM
1 votes:

Deucednuisance: allylloyd: You don't have to believe in God for God to believe in you.

Is anyone else as tired as I am of the "reasonable" christians who come to Fark to lecture everyone and post limp doggerel while imagining it to be profound?


I think at this point we're all pretty damn tired of each other, frankly.
2014-03-24 06:21:07 PM
1 votes:

Bane of Broone: allylloyd: Bane of Broone: allylloyd: After reading some of these posts, I don't know whose stereotypes are worse, the Atheists or the Christians?

They're both hilarious, but I'm an Atheist and even I'll admit that Atheists are usually easier to get riled up. I don't get it either. Aren't we supposed to be euphoric? :p

Since I'm not an atheist, I can't speak for atheists. However, I am a Christian, so when I hear a Christian say something ignorant, two thoughts come to mind:
1) They have a different interpretation of Scripture than I do or
2) They are just really ignorant.

//Sometimes it's a combination of both.

I hear you on that one. My gal is a Christian, but believes in evolution, kindness towards EVERYONE, is pro-choice, fiercely liberal....all that jazz. She doesn't care one bit about contradictions in a book that is thousands of years old. She finds comfort and inspiration in it and uses it to better her own life. So when people come out with "All Christians" or "All religions" stuff it just shows that they are willfully ignorant of people like a drug addict who uses it to stay clean, a person who becomes inspired to be a better, more understanding partner/parent/whatever. I don't care what tools you use to become a better person. "Religion" and "Christianity" are just red herrings (inb4 Clue). Fundies, no matter what side they fall on, are just too lazy to deal with problems on an individual level.


Your gal seems like a stand-up person. But at what point of disbelieving the bible as she does turn someone from a being a "Good Christian" to just being a good person? If she's able to ignore or "not care" about the contradictions of the bible, does she still believe the parts about god? Or just the parts she wants? Hell? The all-powerfulness of god? Does she think god COULD interject/solve our problems, but chooses not to?

At some point in religious introspection, you gotta realize that an all-powerful god that chooses NOT to help those who suffer is problematic. If you still worship that god, you're part of the problem. If you don't worship that god, are you still a Christian? Why would you want to be?
2014-03-24 05:55:25 PM
1 votes:

CanisNoir: Get an abortion don't get an abortion, I don't care because I don't believe life begins at conveption, therefore abortion is not murder and eliminating a persons choice is wrong. That is a moral detrmination the same as: Ban abortion because I believe life begins at conception and therefore abortion is murder and wrong.


I know I'm not going to change your mind, but I've got 5 minutes to kill, so what the hell. In the first scenario, everyone can make their own moral determination, no group imposes theirs on anyone else. In the other, everyone is forced to follow one group's morality.

CanisNoir: Both sides are attempting to force their moral belief of right and wrong on the other and neither is attempting to force a religion on anyone.


Again, one makes no morality determination, the other does. Choice is not a moral.

When one's morality comes from one's religion, and one is trying to force another person to follow one's religious morality, that is forcing their religion one someone else.


/Replace "abortion" with "marriage" or "shellfish" or "not wearing poly cotton blends".
2014-03-24 05:48:16 PM
1 votes:
Back to the whole Ham issue:

i242.photobucket.com
2014-03-24 05:20:03 PM
1 votes:

Kit Fister: whidbey: Show us on the doll where the free-thinking person touched you.

I am often reminded of the Allegory of the Cave. A person who only knows one set of beliefs and cannot prove what you tell him to be the "truth" is never going to truly accept that until they witness it for themselves.

Fundamentally, humans look for meaning in things, they look for some object lesson, some force that explains shiat they otherwise find senseless. They seek order. Accepting that the universe happens randomly, without reason, is a much harder pill to swallow than that there is some reason for it all. And I can speak on this from personal experience: It was far easier for me to believe that i had done something wrong and caused a problem with the people who beat and stabbed the shiat out of me than to accept that it just happened for no damned reason. After all, if I had a reason for it, I could fix it and prevent it from happening. If it's just farking random chance, then...well...that's damn hard to accept.

ANyway, if you find comfort in your beliefs, great. As long as that doesn't lead to you hurting other people and doing shiat that's insanely stupid, like completely rejecting all logical data in favor of your binkie, then have at it.


Plato's Phaedo contains similar imagery to that of the Allegory of the Cave; a philosopher recognizes that before philosophy, his soul was "a veritable prisoner fast bound within his body... and that instead of investigating reality by itself and in itself it is compelled to peer through the bars of its prison.

That's really intense.

IMNSHO, there are two things that should definitely be taught in school: philosophy like your example and

cdn.zmescience.com

astronomy (cosmology).
2014-03-24 04:47:16 PM
1 votes:

allylloyd: //I believe in the Trinity; this means there's ONE God with different name.


Actually, no - the Christian concept of the Trinity most certainly does not refer to three different "names" for god - it refers to three distinct, divine persons within the Godhead.

Three different names for one God sounds an awful lot like the Sabellian heresy
2014-03-24 04:43:02 PM
1 votes:

tlars699: Anyone else think that Morgoth just started playing an electric guitar solo in the church choir, hence the dissonance?


What electric guitar in church might look/sound like.

// Sister Rosetta Tharpe, who would have turned 99 on 20MAR2014
2014-03-24 04:23:05 PM
1 votes:

allylloyd: I answered it. You did not like my first answer and asked for definition/interpretation. I gave my definition and interpretation and STILL you didn't like the answer I gave you.


You're right . I didn't like your second illogical reply any more than the first.

Until I say what you want, you will not like my response. SO STOP ASKING THE DAMN QUESTIONS!

Again, you said there was a "logical" reason why you believed in God. I pointed out the fallacy in your thinking.

Rather than acquiesce, you made personal attacks. I'd say we're done here.
2014-03-24 04:09:32 PM
1 votes:

whidbey: Rueened: Gecko Gingrich: Rueened: Dry your eyes princess, no-one is forcing anything on you.

No? Then why does my brother have to go two counties over to buy a beer on Sunday? Why did my sister need to drive an hour and a half when she wanted to get an abortion? Why can't my cousin marry his boyfriend?

None of those things are my concern, really. Why are you asking me?

Why do free-thinking people rustle your jimmies so much?


Apart from their smugness, arrogance, narrow-mindedness and intolerance...?

Oh, nothing I can put my finger on really.
2014-03-24 03:54:43 PM
1 votes:

allylloyd: Ed Grubermann: allylloyd:
Going TO heaven and getting INSIDE heaven are two very different things...

Actually, they are the same thing. It's impossible to accomplish either. What part of "dead" do you not grasp?

That is your interpretation and/or belief and you are entitled to it. I am entitled to mine.


That's not my belief, it's what the evidence makes clear. Dead is dead. Once the brain is gone, you are gone. Show me any credible evidence that there is anything beyond death and I'll reconsider my position.
2014-03-24 03:51:18 PM
1 votes:

Rueened: You're not very good at this, are you?


Oh look, we have a Pedantic Sematicist on our hands.
2014-03-24 03:49:40 PM
1 votes:

Rueened: Dry your eyes princess, no-one is forcing anything on you.


No? Then why does my brother have to go two counties over to buy a beer on Sunday? Why did my sister need to drive an hour and a half when she wanted to get an abortion? Why can't my cousin marry his boyfriend?
2014-03-24 03:49:34 PM
1 votes:

UncomfortableSilence: Magorn:

Recognizing that we are arguing over the truths hidden in a creation story of a 6000 year old nomadic culture, I have always interpreted the Adam and Eve story thusly:  it is a metaphor for the moments humans gained sentience and self-awareness.   The Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil gives it away to me.  Can you ascribe "morality" to the actions of an animal except as an anthropomorphic delusion?  When a cat toys with its prey before killing it, is it "evil" or merely doing what cats are programmed to do?  Can you honestly say that any animal's actions whether it is your dog peeing on a rug or even that chimp who ate a woman;s face off, had a MORAL dimension?  That is, was good o ...

If it was necessary, then why is it a sin.  We were created, a tree with the knowledge of morality was placed in the garden, and we were forbidden to know that.  Why tempt us? Why give us free will if you know that what will happen will be the eating of fruit from said tree? Why punish them and all who descended from them for gaining that knowledge, if you claimed it to be necessary?


Depends how you define sin and punishment.   You could say it was "original sin" merely because it gave us the CAPACITY to sin, which is to say chose to do evil and then the "punishment" then is not so much the wrath of god but the burden of that responsibility , that once we start on the path to taking our moral judgments for ourselves there is no going back, and it is a heavy burden, and one that has caused great pain and suffering for us as a race, but also all the works of mankind, all out art our science etc.   TO me its the metaphor for humans taking the first steps on the long road to becoming the inheritors of Creation, sentient being with near godlike abilities to understand and manipulate creation.
2014-03-24 03:41:16 PM
1 votes:
eraser8

Like I said, I was interested, principally, in whether the views of religionists and the views of atheists is or is not possibly bridgeable.

I think they are. Atheists have no reason to believe in the existence of deities. Theists either have a personal reason that's not demonstrable to others, or they're assuming existence on faith. The latter are hard to deal with, bu the former (those who have had what they consider to be a divine experience, broadly speaking) should be easy to deal with, as (unless they take their experience to mean more than it was) they have no reason to expect other people to believe what they believe.

More concretely, I've had what I consider to be divine interaction. To me, this suggests the possibility of the existence of other divinities, but I can't prove anything to anyone, so I don't expect them to care. It's like telling someone, "in my experience, Person X gives great head." You haven't had that particular experience, so why would I expect you to believe it? It would be silly. I can't expect you to change your own life based on my experiences (or lack thereof), any more than you can the opposite. Best we just concentrate on what we can agree on out of reason, like "hey, killing people without reason is a dick move," rather than arguing "hey, the god of avocados that you've never met DEMANDS YOUR COMPLIANCE!"
2014-03-24 03:37:02 PM
1 votes:
I wish we could say we're going to look back on this and laugh, but this shiat ain't going away.

It's getting worse.
2014-03-24 03:33:23 PM
1 votes:
Why not believe the Demon-Sultan Azathoth? After all, Azathoth doesn't need you to believe in It in order for It not to believe in you.
2014-03-24 03:20:52 PM
1 votes:

allylloyd: jigger: allylloyd: CHRISTIANS DO NOT PRAY TO SAINTS

No, but Catholics do.

Catholics are Christians. And they don't pray to saints! They ask saints (and other people) to speak to God on their behalf. They aren't asking the saint to solve the problem. They are asking the saint help them get their message to God.


//Case in point, Roger Staubach's Hail Mary pass. It wasn't praying TO Mary. He was praying that Mary would help him get his message to God. They need a touchdown to win the game.


Catholics venerate saints. Or that's at least how they refer to it.

To me it struck me as praying to, especailly when the nuns would start a prayer off and specifically say "let's pray to St John"  and the classrooms and churches were filled with graven images.
2014-03-24 03:20:22 PM
1 votes:

allylloyd: After reading some of these posts, I don't know whose stereotypes are worse, the Atheists or the Christians?


I see it like this - there are insufferable folk in both camps, but at least atheists "beliefs" are based on logical principals derived through the scientific method, tested and re-tested to the point of exceptionally high confidence.  The beliefs of literalist Christians are absurd by any metric.  They're in a minority though.  The large proportion of Christians do not believe the earth was created 6,000 years ago or that fossils are a trick by the devil.  I am often frustrated, though, by how often and how easily religious rhetoric and mindset retards our forward progress as a species.
2014-03-24 03:18:23 PM
1 votes:

CanisNoir: mattharvest: i.e. whether he simply re-organized a pre-existing creation (this is related to the concepts in gnosticism). If Yahweh just re-organized creation, then Yahweh itself is a very different being than if it truly Created the universe.

Didn't the Gnostics believe that Yahweh was the result of a "mistake" or maybe I'm confusing that with Gnostic Christianity that believed Yahweh was a mistake and "evil" God while the God that gave us Jesus was the "loving God".

I'm not as familiar with super early Judiasm as I am with super early Christianity.


The Marcionists, the followers of Marcion of Sinope (Marcion sounds just like the little green men, which is really cool in my books) believed that Yhwh or Yaltaboath as they called him was a cruel and insane creator god who basically created the Universe so he could create people and then be a cruel dick to them for his own jollies.

The God Above Gods, The Alien God, The God Unknown,  Monad eventually got pretty sick of Yaltaboath bringing a lot of negative vibes around the place so he sent Jesus to earth to tell people "You know, if you stop worshipping that Yaltaboath asshole you can just hook up directly with Monad who will take you to heaven and get you away from that prick".

When people refer to the Gnostics with a capital G they're usually referring to Greek Gnostics but there were a whole shiatload of Gnostic sects. Basically the Gnostic sects believe you will know god not through the writings of man which will always be corrupted by men but through direct and personal revelation from god. Thus what one Gnostic sect believed was not what another Gnostic sect would believe.
2014-03-24 03:18:14 PM
1 votes:

formerfloozy: UncomfortableSilence: NightOwl2255: formerfloozy: Satanic_Hamster: Notice Ham doesn't even address Maher's point about the Flood.

You aren't supposed to question, just accept.
*snert*

CSB
I got kicked out of vacation bible school for asking about the garden of eden and original sin. I said that if Jesus died on the cross to wipe out our sins, why were women still punished for the original sin, and babies born into sin? I also wanted to know how if God knew everything, he didn't know that Adam and Eve would eat the apple and acted suprised when they admitted it. I was 12 years old when I realized I was being lied to and misled.
/csb

I got into trouble for asking where Cain's wife came from. My brother told me to ask, should have known it was going to be a problem.

I've angered many people who are big fans of the God has a plan for us approach.  I asked them about the whole Adam and Eve apple thing.  They give the whole free will speech.  Then I ask if God is all knowing, how did he not realize that giving them free will would result in them ignoring his plan and eating the apple anyway and why would he have punished them if he knew what would happen if he created them.  Then I watch them talk circles around the subject until they get angry and walk away or find some other excuse.

My son and I talk about the omnicient and omnipresent aspect of God. That means he literally knows all, past and future, nothing happens without him knowing, right? So why didn't he simply prevent the serpent from entering the garden? That would mean the whole original sin thing was a set up and that god is a giant douche.


The entire Old testament is basically the novel form of the next jackass movie with God playing Johnny Knoxville.

"Sacrifice your son to me!"
"Um OK, do I have to?"
"YES"
"alright, here goes..."
"Ha Ha just kidding, I just wanted to see if you would actually do it.  Hey Michael, get a load of this guy, he was going to kill his son just because I told him to. Oh stop crying you baby I stopped you in time."
2014-03-24 03:14:34 PM
1 votes:

ciberido: Nabb1: What an asshole. Maher, too.

Send them to Thunderdome.

Yeah, I was thinking, one the one hand, Maher is a pretty big asshole.  On the other had, so far as I know he doesn't chortle at the thought of the people who disagree with him roasting in a pit of hellfire for all eternity.  So, he's got that going for him, anyway, which is nice.


Maher is definitely an asshole.

However

1) He wasn't an asshole in this particular instance
2) Ken Ham is an asshole raised to the asshole power. Every time I hear or see his name, I  wish upon him the fate of Kent Hovind, only including a good shanking or two
2014-03-24 03:13:25 PM
1 votes:

UncomfortableSilence: NightOwl2255: formerfloozy: Satanic_Hamster: Notice Ham doesn't even address Maher's point about the Flood.

You aren't supposed to question, just accept.
*snert*

CSB
I got kicked out of vacation bible school for asking about the garden of eden and original sin. I said that if Jesus died on the cross to wipe out our sins, why were women still punished for the original sin, and babies born into sin? I also wanted to know how if God knew everything, he didn't know that Adam and Eve would eat the apple and acted suprised when they admitted it. I was 12 years old when I realized I was being lied to and misled.
/csb

I got into trouble for asking where Cain's wife came from. My brother told me to ask, should have known it was going to be a problem.

I've angered many people who are big fans of the God has a plan for us approach.  I asked them about the whole Adam and Eve apple thing.  They give the whole free will speech.  Then I ask if God is all knowing, how did he not realize that giving them free will would result in them ignoring his plan and eating the apple anyway and why would he have punished them if he knew what would happen if he created them.  Then I watch them talk circles around the subject until they get angry and walk away or find some other excuse.


My son and I talk about the omnicient and omnipresent aspect of God. That means he literally knows all, past and future, nothing happens without him knowing, right? So why didn't he simply prevent the serpent from entering the garden? That would mean the whole original sin thing was a set up and that god is a giant douche.
2014-03-24 03:12:41 PM
1 votes:

Rueened: Stay classy, atheists. It's amusing to see you getting so worked up about something you don't believe in.


Though I may not believe in any god, I also - and as emphatically - believe they shouldn't be forced upon me either.
2014-03-24 03:11:46 PM
1 votes:

safetycap: allylloyd: eraser8: I have some thoughts on it...but, I'd like to get the opinion of a real life religionist on the matter, so I have to ask: WHY do you believe that a god exists?

And my Weeners is "Why not?" My believe in God (includes Jesus and the Holy Spirit) is because I have faith. I don't need to physically touch, hear or see God to believe in God.

You didn't answer the question. "I have faith" is  HOW you believe in god not why.

Why don't you believe in the Flying Spaghetti Monster and Pink Unicorns? You don't need to physically touch, hear or see them in order to believe in them. They also have stories written about them in books. So why YHWH instead of FSM/PU?



I'll answer for allylloydallylloyd believes in God because it makes life easier to cope with.  It's that simple.  For religious people it's not a matter of what's real or not it's a matter of what they have to tell themselves everyday in order to live their life.
2014-03-24 03:07:19 PM
1 votes:

Bf+: Did someone say overly attached Jesus?
[HolyshiatFunny01.jpg]

[HolyshiatFunny02.jpg]


i887.photobucket.com
This +1 was on your Daddy's wrist when he was shot down over Hanoi. He was captured, put in a Vietnamese prison camp. He knew if the gooks ever saw the +1 it'd be confiscated, taken away. The way your Dad looked at it, that +1 was your birthright. He'd be damned if any slopes were gonna put their greasy yella hands on his boy's birthright. So he hid it in the one place he knew he could hide something.

His ass.

Five long years, he wore this +1... up his ass. Then he died of dysentery, he gave me the +1. I hid this uncomfortable hunk of +1 up my ass two years. Then, after seven years, I was sent home to my family. And now, Bf+, I give the +1 to you.
2014-03-24 02:59:00 PM
1 votes:

eraser8: allylloyd: [to the question: WHY do you believe in a god?]   And my Weeners is "Why not?"

Because that reasoning (if honest) would compel you to believe in all gods, absent some reason for disbelief.  How could you possibly choose just one?  And, how did you choose the one you chose?


Sorry, but I'm not going to change my response to suit you.

I believe in God. God believes in me.

//I believe in the Trinity; this means there's ONE God with different name.

//You don't have to believe in God for God to believe in you.
2014-03-24 02:58:47 PM
1 votes:
TheBigJerk

You know, everything I learn about the original form of judaism and what the oldest scriptures said also suggest that to Jews, when they invented judaism, you only went to heaven if you were a Jew. If you weren't a Jew, you didn't have a soul, period, and weren't even really human.

This is somewhat common amongst ethnocentric religions. It's why, when outsiders appropriate them for themselves (as Christianity appropriated parts of Judaism, and later Islam did the same thing), they have to be massaged into universalist creeds where instead of members of the tribe being favored, it's simply believers in the creed.
2014-03-24 02:58:10 PM
1 votes:
We Answers Find in Our Genesis. Don't dead. Open Inside.

i.imgur.com
2014-03-24 02:54:52 PM
1 votes:

JackieRabbit: It amazes me that so-calld Christians know nothing about the basic tenants of their own religion. Did no one ever tell them that Jesus supposedly came to deliver God's new covenant with Man: that the vengeful God had seen the error of his ways and that the new relationship would replace vengeance with unconditional love?


Matthew 5:17-18: "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.
For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished."


So it's a new convenant for things we want to do (eat pork, wear fabric blends, cut our sideburns, etc.) but still the old law for things that make us feel icky (like gay marriage).  Gotcha.  So why does an omnipotent, omniscient being even need to make a new deal (and sacrifice Himself to Himself)?  Since he knows everything, wouldn't he know the old deal wouldn't work when he was making it?

Was not appearing before any humans part of the new deal?  It seems like in the OT God was all over the place - ordering people to sacrifice their children, making bets with Satan, killing firstborn infants, etc.  These days we are lucky if he sends a pic of the chick he knocked up (no, they weren't married - she was married to another guy but he was apparently OK with it) on a tortilla or a freeway overpass.  Why the big change in character in such a short time?
2014-03-24 02:51:46 PM
1 votes:

allylloyd: eraser8: I have some thoughts on it...but, I'd like to get the opinion of a real life religionist on the matter, so I have to ask: WHY do you believe that a god exists?

And my Weeners is "Why not?" My believe in God (includes Jesus and the Holy Spirit) is because I have faith. I don't need to physically touch, hear or see God to believe in God.


You didn't answer the question. "I have faith" is  HOW you believe in god not why.

Why don't you believe in the Flying Spaghetti Monster and Pink Unicorns? You don't need to physically touch, hear or see them in order to believe in them. They also have stories written about them in books. So why YHWH instead of FSM/PU?


i651.photobucket.com
2014-03-24 02:50:41 PM
1 votes:

allylloyd: CHRISTIANS DO NOT PRAY TO SAINTS


No, but Catholics do.
2014-03-24 02:45:43 PM
1 votes:

htomc: Rapmaster2000: People were pretty uncreative if the best they could come up with is "lake of fire".

Notice how everything is defined in purely human terms.  Just like heaven supposedly has "streets of gold".  Why in the world would there be any need at all for gold there?  What possible use could it have there, beyond looking somewhat nice?

It's all just humans appealing to other human's prejudices, fears, and desires.


That was one of the first things that tipped me off when I was a kid. Talk about gold and mansions in heaven and torture and pain in hell. Right after they told me to try to get rid of all my earthly desires. It just never made sense to me.
2014-03-24 02:43:45 PM
1 votes:

RedZoneTuba: "It's a Mr. Ham on line 5, calling about creationism."
"OK, give me Ham on 5 and hold the Maher"


POTY
2014-03-24 02:40:03 PM
1 votes:
Have these people ever tried living life like there's not some being looking over their shoulder judging them 24 hours a day? That sounds like Hell. You need some moral compass? Treat others like you'd want to be treated, that's about it.
2014-03-24 02:36:23 PM
1 votes:

Two16: Facetious_Speciest: Christianity is inherently wacky, so it's not surprising when Christians say wacky things.

I mean, it's a cult based on Jewish beliefs, but they think the Jews...the only source of information regarding the deity they worship...are all wrong. Think about that.

They (if they speak English) call their deity "God," which is somewhat akin to calling your dog "Dog" and getting mad when other people with other dogs don't recognise the primacy of Dog. Hello, your Hebrew god has a name. It's not "God." That's just capitalising a Germanic word (like Dog).

After rejecting the understandings of the deity held by those they nicked the concept of said deity from, they then re-imagined said deity as an super-god, granting him all kinds of special position and powers that are wholly inconsistent with the earlier lore of said god. It's like if a bunch of people adopted Shango and transformed him into the ultimate deity, called him Bob, and told people of African descent that they never really got Shango, because he's Bob, and reasons.

By nature, Christians are psychotically arrogant. It's the entire basis of their religion.


[c.editingmyspace.com image 396x366]


Well played.
2014-03-24 02:23:01 PM
1 votes:

TV's Vinnie: Killer Cars: FlashHarry: maher is supposed to be an asshole; that's his schtick.

True, but Maher especially embodies "liberal smugness" to most conservatives.

Simply saying that "2+2=4" is seen as "liberal smugness" to most conservatives.

(and those few who are smart enough to know 2+2=4 keep their mouths shut lest they be attacked by the rightwing horde of baboons screaming "RINO! RINO!")


Truer words couldn't be spoken. Especially when he tries to talk about the environment. Yikes.
2014-03-24 02:21:17 PM
1 votes:

Some 'Splainin' To Do: I just don't understand the concept of hell. The idea of eternal punishment is just so  evil, that I don't understand how Christians rationalize it.


The ONLY conception of hell I can even vaguely accept, as a Christian, is CS Lewis' idea.  That hell is a place people send themselves because they are too stubborn, proud, arrogant etc to allow themselves oneness with the creator, and it isn't a BAD place, it's just a nothing place  that is horrible only in contrast with the eternal rapture that is joining with god.   And even then, I really ain't sure I buy it.   Hell has been a more or less universal feature of every region on earth since time immemorial (Even Buddhists got a hell, lots and lots of them in fact)  Which I think says more about human nature than the nature of the almighty, as a method of social control, religion needs a way to get their followers to do things that are contrary to basic human nature, and the threat of dire punishments for all maternity is an effective way to do that.
2014-03-24 02:20:37 PM
1 votes:

Nabb1: What an asshole. Maher, too.

Send them to Thunderdome.


Yeah, I was thinking, one the one hand, Maher is a pretty big asshole.  On the other had, so far as I know he doesn't chortle at the thought of the people who disagree with him roasting in a pit of hellfire for all eternity.  So, he's got that going for him, anyway, which is nice.
2014-03-24 02:19:49 PM
1 votes:
TomD9938

That figures.

But to be fair, Germanic hel is just a place your average person goes. It's not tortuous or anything. In contrast, Christian hell is all torture, all the time.
2014-03-24 02:16:07 PM
1 votes:

formerfloozy: Satanic_Hamster: Notice Ham doesn't even address Maher's point about the Flood.

You aren't supposed to question, just accept.
*snert*

CSB
I got kicked out of vacation bible school for asking about the garden of eden and original sin. I said that if Jesus died on the cross to wipe out our sins, why were women still punished for the original sin, and babies born into sin? I also wanted to know how if God knew everything, he didn't know that Adam and Eve would eat the apple and acted suprised when they admitted it. I was 12 years old when I realized I was being lied to and misled.
/csb


I got into trouble for asking where Cain's wife came from. My brother told me to ask, should have known it was going to be a problem.
2014-03-24 02:14:46 PM
1 votes:

Facetious_Speciest: Technically, hell is a Germanic concept.


That figures.
2014-03-24 02:11:37 PM
1 votes:
Premise 1: God is perfect
Premise 2: Nothing God makes is imperfect because he is perfect.
Premise 3: Man, and thus I, was created by God's perfect will.

Conclusion: Stop trying to improve on perfection.
2014-03-24 02:08:41 PM
1 votes:

gshepnyc: Nabb1: What an asshole. Maher, too.

Send them to Thunderdome.

Yeah, Maher is the asshole for pointing out what utterly, categorically evil things suddenly become holy and wonderful if you convince yourself that God wills them.  The character of God in the bible would not be admirable were he your next door neighbor, and yet billions of people put his alleged demands and desires ahead of the peace and happiness of their actual neighbor. It's good to have that drilled into people as often as possible. Religion deserves to be mocked and I'm glad we live in a time period when religions' ability to set themselves in a position immune to mockery is at an end.


Oh sir, we are far from that day. Only until recently have atheist even grabbed a foothold. Remember, we are still in the age of "its intolerant to refute my intolerance" where religions are trying to still ban gay marriage and the equal rights of those citizens. In an age where religious people are at an all time high, where "my religious beliefs are reason enough to refuse service to those I don't agree with". No, we are far from that reality. Generations in fact.
2014-03-24 02:07:17 PM
1 votes:
CanisNoir

Hell is a Christian concept that came about well after the "tribesmen" died, and iirc the very earliest references to it compared it to the flaming heap of garbage near Jerusalem. (Ghenna)

Technically, hell is a Germanic concept.

Jewish sects have held a place compared to the earthly Gehenna as a place of temporary tribulation. English-speaking Christians use the word "hell" because their ancestors used "hel" as a place of the afterlife for the non-awesome for thousands of years.

"Hel" existed before "hell." "Hell" is a Christian corruption of a Germanic concept mixed with a misunderstanding of Hebrew folklore (much like most of Christianity).
2014-03-24 02:01:47 PM
1 votes:

Bane of Broone: allylloyd: After reading some of these posts, I don't know whose stereotypes are worse, the Atheists or the Christians?

They're both hilarious, but I'm an Atheist and even I'll admit that Atheists are usually easier to get riled up. I don't get it either. Aren't we supposed to be euphoric? :p


Is this like the "both sides are bad, so vote republican!" ... because I think we both know who is being disingenuous here.
2014-03-24 02:00:14 PM
1 votes:
It amazes me that so-calld Christians know nothing about the basic tenants of their own religion. Did no one ever tell them that Jesus supposedly came to deliver God's new covenant with Man: that the vengeful God had seen the error of his ways and that the new relationship would replace vengeance with unconditional love?
2014-03-24 01:54:22 PM
1 votes:

Rapmaster2000: People were pretty uncreative if the best they could come up with is "lake of fire".


Notice how everything is defined in purely human terms.  Just like heaven supposedly has "streets of gold".  Why in the world would there be any need at all for gold there?  What possible use could it have there, beyond looking somewhat nice?

It's all just humans appealing to other human's prejudices, fears, and desires.
2014-03-24 01:51:35 PM
1 votes:

Bane of Broone: allylloyd


I hear you on that one. My gal is a Christian, but believes in evolution, kindness towards EVERYONE, is pro-choice, fiercely liberal....all that jazz. She doesn't care one bit about contradictions in a book that is thousands of years old. She finds comfort and inspiration in it and uses it to better her own life. So when people come out with "All Christians" or "All religions" stuff it just shows that they are willfully ignorant of people like a drug addict who uses it to stay clean, a person who becomes inspired to be a better, more understanding partner/parent/whatever. I don't care what tools you use to become a better person. "Religion" and "Christianity" are just red herrings (inb4 Clue). Fundies, no matter what side they fall on, are just too lazy to deal with problems on an individual level.

Keep your girlfriend.

//If you have kids, baptize them.
// You can use it as a reason why she has to go out on Sunday mornings and you can have the house to yourself.

No kids unless we adopt later. She's cool with me spending Sundays at home. I'll occasionally go to a service because I enjoy watching the ceremony, pagentry, and customs. I find it genuinely interesting. I'll also lend when doing feedings for the homeless, etc. I just don't advocate the church is all and they are all cool with it.



You. I like you. And your girlfriend.

Carry on.
2014-03-24 01:50:03 PM
1 votes:

PadreMontoya: [www.markstivers.com image 631x549]

Fire and brimstone lake.



The problem with a metal boat lined with Styrofoam is the metal will eventually reach the temperature of the fire and brimstone lake which will cause the Styrofoam to catch fire.
What you should use in replace of the Styrofoam is refractory ceramic fiber which can withstand up to 1400 deg. C.
2014-03-24 01:49:52 PM
1 votes:
Centralia, Pennsylvania?
2014-03-24 01:49:23 PM
1 votes:
The Christian god for many.

All knowing and all powerful - Doesn't actually engage with anyone or intervene with anything and is content to let evil happen around the world, even in his name.

Loving and forgiving and above human emotion - but homophobic and jealous, will send you to be tortured forever if you don't believe, believe wrong, or don't believe hard enough.  Also still seems to have a grudge against women who try to be more than an accessory for a man.

Has a plan for everyone and anything - but gives us free will to follow said plan, so when his "plan" results in problems for us we can blame ourselves and not the ever just god.

Also forbid us knowledge and punished us forever for our curiosity with the concept of original sin.  Or rather punished us for refusing to remain ignorant and obedient.
2014-03-24 01:47:40 PM
1 votes:

rjakobi: It's much easier to rationalize than the concept that every person gets to go to heaven irregardless of their actions. It establishes the idea of responsibility for one's actions.


irregardless?
2014-03-24 01:46:40 PM
1 votes:

allylloyd: Bane of Broone: allylloyd: Bane of Broone: allylloyd: After reading some of these posts, I don't know whose stereotypes are worse, the Atheists or the Christians?

They're both hilarious, but I'm an Atheist and even I'll admit that Atheists are usually easier to get riled up. I don't get it either. Aren't we supposed to be euphoric? :p

Since I'm not an atheist, I can't speak for atheists. However, I am a Christian, so when I hear a Christian say something ignorant, two thoughts come to mind:
1) They have a different interpretation of Scripture than I do or
2) They are just really ignorant.

//Sometimes it's a combination of both.

I hear you on that one. My gal is a Christian, but believes in evolution, kindness towards EVERYONE, is pro-choice, fiercely liberal....all that jazz. She doesn't care one bit about contradictions in a book that is thousands of years old. She finds comfort and inspiration in it and uses it to better her own life. So when people come out with "All Christians" or "All religions" stuff it just shows that they are willfully ignorant of people like a drug addict who uses it to stay clean, a person who becomes inspired to be a better, more understanding partner/parent/whatever. I don't care what tools you use to become a better person. "Religion" and "Christianity" are just red herrings (inb4 Clue). Fundies, no matter what side they fall on, are just too lazy to deal with problems on an individual level.

Keep your girlfriend.

//If you have kids, baptize them.
// You can use it as a reason why she has to go out on Sunday mornings and you can have the house to yourself.


No kids unless we adopt later. She's cool with me spending Sundays at home. I'll occasionally go to a service because I enjoy watching the ceremony, pagentry, and customs. I find it genuinely interesting. I'll also lend when doing feedings for the homeless, etc. I just don't advocate the church is all and they are all cool with it.
2014-03-24 01:45:50 PM
1 votes:
i13.photobucket.com
2014-03-24 01:40:41 PM
1 votes:
scontent-a.xx.fbcdn.net
2014-03-24 01:34:19 PM
1 votes:

FlashHarry: maher is supposed to be an asshole; that's his schtick.


True, but Maher especially embodies "liberal smugness" to most conservatives. It's not just that he can be a prick, it's the condescending nature in which he delivers his barbs particularly to the religious right that rile them to no end.

I mean, really, NO ONE comes close to consistently capturing the essence of smug, elite liberal like Maher. Of course, Maher isn't liberal on certain issues but it's not like someone foaming at the mouth because he dared to make fun of religion for the umpteenth time during a taping of Real Time is going to pay attention and appreciate nuance or complexity.
2014-03-24 01:33:33 PM
1 votes:

nmrsnr: Oh Internet, you never disappoint:

[iguessimagrownup.files.wordpress.com image 500x245]



It's incredibly sad, but that is how it is... on the internet and IRL.

I can assure you those people are not filled with God's love. If they were to pass Him on the street He'd say, "I don't know you...and stop trying to represent me because you're making a huge mess."
2014-03-24 01:31:02 PM
1 votes:

gshepnyc: Religion deserves to be mocked and I'm glad we live in a time period when religions' ability to set themselves in a position immune to mockery is at an end.


Depending on where you live and which religion you're mocking, that is.
2014-03-24 01:29:48 PM
1 votes:
...the bible says...the bible says...the bible says...

My book says Zeus created the world.  We both can't be right.
2014-03-24 01:28:18 PM
1 votes:

allylloyd: After reading some of these posts, I don't know whose stereotypes are worse, the Atheists or the Christians?


The Christians b/c they will condemn you and they won't leave you a tip after church if they suspect you don't believe the same thing as they.
2014-03-24 01:26:02 PM
1 votes:

Bane of Broone: allylloyd: After reading some of these posts, I don't know whose stereotypes are worse, the Atheists or the Christians?

They're both hilarious, but I'm an Atheist and even I'll admit that Atheists are usually easier to get riled up. I don't get it either. Aren't we supposed to be euphoric? :p


Since I'm not an atheist, I can't speak for atheists. However, I am a Christian, so when I hear a Christian say something ignorant, two thoughts come to mind:
1) They have a different interpretation of Scripture than I do or
2) They are just really ignorant.

//Sometimes it's a combination of both.
2014-03-24 01:25:26 PM
1 votes:
He's a god of love and mercy, as long as you totally submit to him in every way, do what he wants, and stop thinking for yourself. It's 50 shades of Jehovah.
2014-03-24 01:24:45 PM
1 votes:
If Ken's faith is as strong as he claims, he would wouldn't be phased by comments by secular folk like Maher.

/Or Bill Nye
// Or Neil DeGrasse Tyson
2014-03-24 01:22:06 PM
1 votes:
allylloyd

I'll explain it to you in simple language. Three faiths: Judaism, Christianity and Islam believe in ONE God (the same God).

They do now. Back in the day, Yahweh was just another son of El in a Semitic pantheon.
2014-03-24 01:21:18 PM
1 votes:

allylloyd: After reading some of these posts, I don't know whose stereotypes are worse, the Atheists or the Christians?


They're both hilarious, but I'm an Atheist and even I'll admit that Atheists are usually easier to get riled up. I don't get it either. Aren't we supposed to be euphoric? :p
2014-03-24 01:15:34 PM
1 votes:

Egoy3k: NateAsbestos: Secret Agent X23: I dunno, Ken...that wording sounds awfully polytheistic to me.

Yeah, what's this "a" God nonsense?

But then again, doesn't the first commandment tacitly admit the existence of other gods?

Yes, either that or it acknowledges that gods are created by humans.  Putting it into context with the story of the golden calf it seems pretty obvious that those guys were pretty ready to invent themselves a god.


The Hebrews weren't monotheistic until late in the game.
2014-03-24 01:15:30 PM
1 votes:

Some 'Splainin' To Do: I just don't understand the concept of hell. The idea of eternal punishment is just so  evil, that I don't understand how Christians rationalize it.


It's simply an incentive to obey your Earthly masters.

Don't steal, don't kill, don't screw your neighbors wife, pay your taxes, enjoy eternal life.
2014-03-24 01:13:40 PM
1 votes:
When your god creates an entire planet with his own powers. Then drowns all his creations in a horrible flood. Your god is a four year old with a sadistic streak.
2014-03-24 01:13:21 PM
1 votes:

gilgigamesh: I am assuming (and this may be a big assumption) that Ken Ham doesn't believe in Santa Claus. Yet I am pretty sure he would view as absurd the assertion that he is "mad at Santa Claus". It isn't that hard a concept.


I contend we are both atheists, I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.

~Rand Paul
2014-03-24 01:12:12 PM
1 votes:
2014-03-24 01:11:24 PM
1 votes:

Rapmaster2000: People were pretty uncreative if the best they could come up with is "lake of fire".


It would've confused the tribesmen if hell were described as having to sit on a crowded train for eternity, forced to listen to other people's loud personal cell phone conversations.
2014-03-24 01:10:44 PM
1 votes:
media.tumblr.com

this helps quell my rage when I hear about this guy.  i sometimes combine it with 2 deep breaths, in through the nose, out through the mouth.  it's sublime hilarity calms me.

/its funny cuz it has two syllables
2014-03-24 01:05:09 PM
1 votes:

NateAsbestos: Secret Agent X23: I dunno, Ken...that wording sounds awfully polytheistic to me.

Yeah, what's this "a" God nonsense?

But then again, doesn't the first commandment tacitly admit the existence of other gods?


Yes, either that or it acknowledges that gods are created by humans.  Putting it into context with the story of the golden calf it seems pretty obvious that those guys were pretty ready to invent themselves a god.
2014-03-24 01:04:56 PM
1 votes:
And they'll know we are Christians by are love doesn't seem to be getting much play anymore.
2014-03-24 12:25:21 PM
1 votes:

FlashHarry: maher is supposed to be an asshole; that's his schtick.


agreed.

Still would like to take him, Andy Dick and a crazed badger tie them up in a sack and throw them in a river.

Not the most human way to put a crazed animal out how its misery.
 
Displayed 126 of 126 comments

View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


This thread is closed to new comments.

Continue Farking
Submit a Link »






Report