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(Yahoo)   Do you know how hard it is to make ends meet while having to make payments on your million dollar yacht? Look, that's what "public assistance" is for, right?   (news.yahoo.com) divider line 141
    More: Fail, yachts, federal benefits, dollars, payments  
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13984 clicks; posted to Main » on 23 Mar 2014 at 12:16 PM (23 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



141 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2014-03-23 08:52:01 AM
This is just another example of right-wing dog whistling. People don't take advantage of the welfare system.
 
2014-03-23 08:55:45 AM
Just shoot 'em. Somewhere in the guts. And leave 'em adrift on the boat.
 
2014-03-23 08:58:36 AM

Lucky LaRue: This is just another example of right-wing dog whistling. People don't take advantage of the welfare system.


"Corporations are people, my friend"
/lulz
 
2014-03-23 09:20:23 AM
People like this are wasting air that could be better used by someone else.
 
2014-03-23 09:21:52 AM
Buckwheats.
 
2014-03-23 09:23:55 AM
What is the point of that? The 20k/year they scammed seems like it wouldn't of changed their life muCH.
 
2014-03-23 09:37:52 AM

doglover: Just shoot 'em. Somewhere in the guts. And leave 'em adrift on the boat.


I don't know.  The boat sounds kind of nice.  We should give that to Minnesota or Florida and see if they can sell if off and maybe drop a few bucks back in the state coffers to offset these morons duping them.  Maybe we can just gutshot them and when they finally bleed out, that'll be the timer on when the Ebay bids are closed for the SS Florisota.
 
2014-03-23 09:57:33 AM

Lucky LaRue: This is just another example of right-wing dog whistling. People don't take advantage of the welfare system.


See, here's the deal.  These people are assholes, and fraudsters.  Yes, there are people that take advantage of the welfare system.  Do you know why there is a news story when they are uncovered?  Because it's news.

Do you know why there isn't a news story when someone is found to be utilizing the welfare system properly?  Because it's so common, it's not news.

/b-b-b-but Derp!
 
2014-03-23 10:20:41 AM
The "Public Assistance" (can't call it welfare, you might hurt feelings), programs in Minnesota are so farked. There has been a rampant abuse problem. People using their prepaid cards for smokes, alcohol, making ATM withdraws,  tattoos... A local news station here did a huge investigation, and county/state officials were all "DERP, we didn't think that the prepaid cards would be abused"

Now getting on the dole is just as easy for some. Be a single mom, have a utility bill in your name showing residence? Here's your benefits! The Megabus that runs between Minneapolis-Milwaukee-Chicago has been nicknamed Moneybus as it's used in some communities as a "commuter line" for people to travel back to MN for a weekend to re-qualify for benefits they shouldn't be getting.
 
2014-03-23 10:27:47 AM
A $30,000 Lexus?   What, was it missing an engine or something?
 
2014-03-23 10:30:04 AM
I wonder how much money Minnesota spent investigating and how much they will spend prosecuting and incarcerating these miscreants.  I'm glad we have government servants ready and willing to save our tax dollars, though..
 
2014-03-23 10:41:29 AM
99.4% of welfare recipients own a yacht.
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2014-03-23 10:58:22 AM
Colin Chisholm was the chief executive officer of a satellite television and broadband services company

Somehow this doesn't seem that surprising.
 
2014-03-23 11:01:16 AM
"They know by now we are looking for them."

You should probably try looking on the yacht.
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2014-03-23 11:19:15 AM
It's all those black single mothers who are too lazy to work.  See here's what one looks like:

img.fark.net
 
2014-03-23 11:37:45 AM

North_Central_Positronics: A $30,000 Lexus?   What, was it missing an engine or something?


They were on welfare, they can't afford an engine in their car.
 
2014-03-23 12:05:10 PM

grokca: North_Central_Positronics: A $30,000 Lexus?   What, was it missing an engine or something?

They were on welfare, they can't afford an engine in their car.


I bet they had a refrigerator, though.
 
m00
2014-03-23 12:21:53 PM
Wait, these guys seem pretty rich. I thought Republicans were for welfare for rich people.
 
2014-03-23 12:24:48 PM
And yet, just yesterday, Farkers were denouncing tighter controls on Welfare. Yes, welfare recipients are all 100% upstanding, honest citizens and do not need restraints. In fact, let's just send them wads of cash in the mail. Dump the EBT card and skip the middle man.
 
2014-03-23 12:25:22 PM

Lucky LaRue: I wonder how much money Minnesota spent investigating and how much they will spend prosecuting and incarcerating these miscreants.  I'm glad we have government servants ready and willing to save our tax dollars, though..


Oh, now you're saying they should get away with it. Forget to change alts?
 
2014-03-23 12:26:25 PM

Lucky LaRue: This is just another example of right-wing dog whistling. People don't take advantage of the welfare system.

Colin Chisholm was the chief executive officer of a satellite television and broadband services company, his wife bred and sold championship dogs, and over a seven-year period the couple deposited more than $2.6 million in bank accounts they did not report on applications for welfare benefits, according to the complaint.

 
2014-03-23 12:27:16 PM
Rich fraudsters' problems.
 
2014-03-23 12:27:44 PM

North_Central_Positronics: A $30,000 Lexus?   What, was it missing an engine or something?


I think the newspaper must have actually checked the bluebook value of their family car, shockingly. You can find 2013 Lexus models for sale for $30k with only 15,000 miles on em, I'm guessing they had the downmarket model for a few years.
 
2014-03-23 12:31:43 PM
Time to reform the welfare system Mr. Obama.
 
2014-03-23 12:33:40 PM
But it's pronounced, "mangrove".

img.fark.net
 
2014-03-23 12:35:26 PM
They need to be made an example of.
 
2014-03-23 12:36:25 PM

PanicMan: Lucky LaRue: This is just another example of right-wing dog whistling. People don't take advantage of the welfare system.

Colin Chisholm was the chief executive officer of a satellite television and broadband services company, his wife bred and sold championship dogs, and over a seven-year period the couple deposited more than $2.6 million in bank accounts they did not report on applications for welfare benefits, according to the complaint.


To be fair, that was all that remained from their $2.600001 earnings after taxes so. . .
 
2014-03-23 12:36:45 PM
If your name has a number in it, you are pretty much guaranteed to be a douche bag. Douche bag the third.
 
2014-03-23 12:37:02 PM
Food stamps budget last year  = 75 Billion
feed 44 million people - about 1700 a year .

last year Boeing alone got 13 billion -

Lets just agree that Republicans want to give welfare to their base ( Rich Friends ) -- Not Kidding
And democrats want to give to their base ( worthless degenerates )  Half Kidding
 
2014-03-23 12:37:35 PM

Lucky LaRue: This is just another example of right-wing dog whistling. People don't take advantage of the welfare system.


But now we have lobster-eating surfer guy -and- this yacht-living scammer couple. That's 3 out of millions. Clearly, the poors are yacht-living lobster eaters. Did you know that 99.6% of the poors have a refrigerator? This is an outrage!
 
2014-03-23 12:38:16 PM
Clearly their taxes haven't been cut enough.
 
2014-03-23 12:39:36 PM
That's it, from now on anyone ripping of government handout programs need to be banned from any program for ever and we must shut down the program. But make it fair, any corporation that rips off the government also needs the same punishment and the program needs to be ended and all executives who participated need to be thrown in jail. That ok with you Haliburton?
 
2014-03-23 12:40:18 PM
Easy up on these fine upstanding job creators.
 
2014-03-23 12:41:36 PM
Let me beat Fox News to the punch: This is evidence that all people abuse the food stamp program, so let's get rid of it.
 
2014-03-23 12:41:47 PM
One of the comments to the article adds quite a bit of detail. I didn't get to fact check it, but it is interesting.

From the comments:

Reading more, it sounds like there is much more to this story and it's more than welfare cheats. This story skips over some details. They signed papers for the $1.2 million dollar yacht in 2005 and lived on it for 28 months. Based on the documents from the 11th Circuit Court of Appeals, the 28 months seems to be how long it took for the guy who sold it to them to get it back because they didn't make payments on it. March 2008, they moved into a luxury home in Minnesota and were evicted in under a year. Feb 2009, they moved into another luxury home. Reading between the lines, sounds like it may have been purchased, possibly improperly, with the funds of her grandmother.

The maximum sentence for what they are charged with is 20 years Authorities have been looking for them for a month now though they believe they have fled the country. The website for the company he is CEO of is just BS fluff that could be put together in a few hours even though the complaint references it provided him with $1 million dollars in deposits for satellite services to the Carribbean. The other $2.6 million in deposits may have came from her breeding business where amounts are subjective. Sounds like more than just welfare fraud here, but welfare fraud sounds like the easiest thing to prove and prosecute.
 
2014-03-23 12:42:27 PM
Obviously the solution is to disband all forms of pubic assistance, even to those who clearly need it.

Amidoinitrite, Fox News?

img.youtube.com
 
2014-03-23 12:44:15 PM
Confiscate their wealth and property, blacklist them from employment or travel, and don't allow them to ever collect public assistance again. They'll get by. The husband can shine shoes, and the wife can be a whore.
 
2014-03-23 12:44:18 PM
People in Minnesota like welfare so much they even elect people who receive ill-gotten corporate welfare:
i265.photobucket.com
 
2014-03-23 12:45:22 PM
Like farm subsidies?
 
2014-03-23 12:45:23 PM

Sniffers Row: The "Public Assistance" (can't call it welfare, you might hurt feelings)


Probabaly because the word "welfare" has been used like a blunt instrument to demean people and is used as a catch-all description of any form of public aid the elites want abolished.

Besides, the average Fox news watcher can't spell "assistance", so they call it "welfare".
 
2014-03-23 12:46:49 PM

PanicMan: Lucky LaRue: This is just another example of right-wing dog whistling. People don't take advantage of the welfare system.

Colin Chisholm was the chief executive officer of a satellite television and broadband services company, his wife bred and sold championship dogs, and over a seven-year period the couple deposited more than $2.6 million in bank accounts they did not report on applications for welfare benefits, according to the complaint.


Sounds a lot like the time Ann Romney got taxpayer money because she owned a show horse.

static4.businessinsider.com
 
2014-03-23 12:47:28 PM

Lucky LaRue: I wonder how much money Minnesota spent investigating and how much they will spend prosecuting and incarcerating these miscreants.  I'm glad we have government servants ready and willing to save our tax dollars, though..


They typically only prosecute if it is so heinous it would embarrass them on the evening news. They're also very selective about who they do and don't prosecute based on local politics.

I know people that have made a career out of defrauding welfare. They consider it an entitlement and find the idea that they should have to work just like everyone else horrifying. It's extremely unlikely for the typical welfare cheat to get prosecuted and if they do it's highly unlikely that they will face jail time.
 
2014-03-23 12:47:35 PM
Obviously, this is proof we need to outlaw public assistance to black people.
 
2014-03-23 12:48:22 PM
Hot on the heels of the article about CEOs being the highest percentage of psychopaths.
 
2014-03-23 12:48:30 PM

TV's Vinnie: Obviously the solution is to disband all forms of pubic assistance, even to those who clearly need it.

Amidoinitrite, Fox News?



Yes. (prolly nsfw language)
 
2014-03-23 12:49:39 PM
What do you bet that yacht was their getaway vehicle, and they're living comfortably on an island in the Caribbean now?  They seem smarter than your average crooks.

Don't bother wasting more money looking for them, just fine them every penny they have or could ever hope to make if they ever show back up in the US.  Leave them homeless on the street, ban them from collecting any more benefits for life, don't let them declare bankruptcy, and let them eat out of dumpsters.
 
2014-03-23 12:49:53 PM

NickelP: What is the point of that? The 20k/year they scammed seems like it wouldn't of changed their life muCH.


Seriously, wouldn't the effort of applying for assistance be more trouble that it's worth if you've already got plenty of dough?
 
2014-03-23 12:52:13 PM
If your name ends in "The Third", you probably do not need any more money.
 
m00
2014-03-23 12:56:53 PM
To be serious, this is what I can't stand about Republicans.

If you want to "end welfare" fine. No corporate welfare to companies like GE. No welfare to wall street. No welfare to the wealthy in the form of generous tax loopholes. No welfare to energy companies, and resource extraction companies. No protected markets. No farm bill. No using our military to aid business interests in foreign countries. Then by all means advocate also ending food stamps and welfare for poor people.

What seriously irritates me is that Republicans only advocate ending assistance to low income people who need it. But billion dollar corporations? Wealthy CEOs? They get to keep their welfare.

I guess we know who has lobbyists and makes campaign contributions. Because that's what this is about. It's about taxing the poor and middle class and giving to wholly to the rich, because rich people pay for political campaigns.

So Republicans: spare me your outrage about poor people gaming public assistance, because this only "outrages" you because they buy refrigerators with the money rather than politicians.
 
2014-03-23 12:57:11 PM
There is an option to do away with wefare and unemplyment fraud, oversight, and saves money.

A guaranteed minimum income.


http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/12/10/rethinking-the-idea-of- a- basic-income-for-all/
Rethinking the Idea of a Basic Income for All
By Bruce Bartlett
Bruce Bartlett held senior policy roles in the Reagan and George H.W. Bush administrations and served on the staffs of Representatives Jack Kemp and Ron Paul.
 
2014-03-23 12:58:25 PM

Sniffers Row: The "Public Assistance" (can't call it welfare, you might hurt feelings), programs in Minnesota are so farked. There has been a rampant abuse problem.....


Liar.
 
2014-03-23 01:00:24 PM
Turfshoe,
Sounds like more than just welfare fraud here, but welfare fraud sounds like the easiest thing to prove and prosecute.


This. It sounds like they could be professional grifters.
Link

\It would be an interesting reality series.
\\Don't forget the opulent $30,000 lexus. It must be harder to grift a car dealer.
 
2014-03-23 01:01:44 PM
These two, while smart, don't seem the type to avoid detection.  I wonder just how fast the /b/tards could uncover current info on these two.

Not that I would ever know anything about how to do such a thing. Ever.
 
2014-03-23 01:04:15 PM
DarkVader ,
What do you bet that yacht was their getaway vehicle, and they're living comfortably on an island in the Caribbean now? They seem smarter than your average crooks.


Nope....but I would bet that they do have an exit strategy.
n 2005, the U.S. Coast Guard seized the yacht, renamed the Amanda Aras, due to missed payments. That just pushed the couple to move inland, finding a home in a seaside community about 30 miles south of Palm Beach, authorities say.
They then engaged in a long legal battle to get their yacht back. At one point, Colin Chisholm told the judge he lived in Greenwich, Conn., an address investigators later determined was a UPS store. In the judge's ruling on the lawsuit, he said that he found Chisholm's testimony "at best evasive and at worst perjurious."
 
2014-03-23 01:04:54 PM

North_Central_Positronics: grokca: North_Central_Positronics: A $30,000 Lexus?   What, was it missing an engine or something?

They were on welfare, they can't afford an engine in their car.

I bet they had a refrigerator, though.


They couldn't afford the engine for the Lexus because they had to spend all their food stamps on lobster and steak.
 
2014-03-23 01:07:07 PM
I guess they shouldn't go around expecting any reciprocation for the luxury taxes they've undoubtably have had to pay over the years.
 
2014-03-23 01:08:03 PM

Sniffers Row: The "Public Assistance" (can't call it welfare, you might hurt feelings), programs in Minnesota are so farked. There has been a rampant abuse problem. People using their prepaid cards for smokes, alcohol, making ATM withdraws,  tattoos... A local news station here did a huge investigation, and county/state officials were all "DERP, we didn't think that the prepaid cards would be abused"

Now getting on the dole is just as easy for some. Be a single mom, have a utility bill in your name showing residence? Here's your benefits! The Megabus that runs between Minneapolis-Milwaukee-Chicago has been nicknamed Moneybus as it's used in some communities as a "commuter line" for people to travel back to MN for a weekend to re-qualify for benefits they shouldn't be getting.


Stuff like this is why everybody should just get a base standard of living check every month. Who cares if people poorer than you want tattoos or cigarettes? They will find out very quickly that they can't eat their xboxes and malt liquor won't sustain them, but until then, the rest of us will be free to stop being busybodies about what "the poors" are choosing to spend their money on.
 
2014-03-23 01:08:49 PM
I really don't see the problem here. These weren't trailer trash, or Mexicans or Blacks. These were White, middle class consumers. They were spending large amounts in their local economies. They were salt of the earth type people. They probably got in a little over their heads; you know, overspent a little. It can happen. Now they are being demonized as fraudsters or worse! I can't believe the vindictive prosecutors in Minnesota are going after these innocent, good-hearted people. Oh, the injustice! Where will it all end?
 
2014-03-23 01:09:12 PM

doglover: Just shoot 'em. Somewhere in the guts. And leave 'em adrift on the boat.


I don't want our imperfect legal system determining such things, but if the accusations are true it would be nice if they were somehow violently killed.
 
2014-03-23 01:09:15 PM
Oh Minnesota, why are you punishing the job-creators???
  
//I am Charles Koch and I approved this message
 
2014-03-23 01:09:20 PM

DubyaHater: In fact, let's just send them wads of cash in the mail.


Well, why not? It would certainly cut down on the instances of busybodies pretending that poor people are somehow spending "their" (the busybody's, that is) money on stuff that they don't specifically approve of.
 
2014-03-23 01:11:57 PM

Mirandized: I really don't see the problem here. These weren't trailer trash, or Mexicans or Blacks. These were White, middle class consumers. They were spending large amounts in their local economies. They were salt of the earth type people. They probably got in a little over their heads; you know, overspent a little. It can happen. Now they are being demonized as fraudsters or worse! I can't believe the vindictive prosecutors in Minnesota are going after these innocent, good-hearted people. Oh, the injustice! Where will it all end?


If some had their way, apparently in a death sentence.
 
2014-03-23 01:13:30 PM

Lucky LaRue: This is just another example of right-wing dog whistling. People don't take advantage of the welfare system.


Methinks thar be trolls aboot.
 
2014-03-23 01:14:21 PM

Turfshoe: One of the comments to the article adds quite a bit of detail. I didn't get to fact check it, but it is interesting.

From the comments:

Reading more, it sounds like there is much more to this story and it's more than welfare cheats. This story skips over some details. They signed papers for the $1.2 million dollar yacht in 2005 and lived on it for 28 months. Based on the documents from the 11th Circuit Court of Appeals, the 28 months seems to be how long it took for the guy who sold it to them to get it back because they didn't make payments on it. March 2008, they moved into a luxury home in Minnesota and were evicted in under a year. Feb 2009, they moved into another luxury home. Reading between the lines, sounds like it may have been purchased, possibly improperly, with the funds of her grandmother.

The maximum sentence for what they are charged with is 20 years Authorities have been looking for them for a month now though they believe they have fled the country. The website for the company he is CEO of is just BS fluff that could be put together in a few hours even though the complaint references it provided him with $1 million dollars in deposits for satellite services to the Carribbean. The other $2.6 million in deposits may have came from her breeding business where amounts are subjective. Sounds like more than just welfare fraud here, but welfare fraud sounds like the easiest thing to prove and prosecute.


Thanks for the info. Seriously.
 
2014-03-23 01:18:32 PM

SovietCanuckistan: If your name ends in "The Third", you probably do not need any more money.


I always find that strange to hear. My older brother was a third and we grew up middle class at best. Meaning never hungry but a hell of a lot of beans and rice and second hand clothes and suchlike.
 
2014-03-23 01:19:01 PM
Why are you shaming the people on assistance? They can spend their money any way they want, tats, strippers, yachts. It's barely any of your tax money going to them and we waste money on other things.
 
2014-03-23 01:21:28 PM

Kevin Lomax: Why are you shaming the people on assistance? They can spend their money any way they want, tats, strippers, yachts. It's barely any of your tax money going to them and we waste money on other things.


Ugh. I wish our trolls could come up with better stuff. This wasn't even a new lie ten years ago.
 
2014-03-23 01:22:33 PM

Satanic_Hamster: Obviously, this is proof we need to outlaw public assistance to black people.


Precisely. I love how winners like Lucky and DubyaHater think that some long time white collar con artist acting like a con proves that negroes buy scrimps.
 
2014-03-23 01:22:46 PM

The My Little Pony Killer: DubyaHater: In fact, let's just send them wads of cash in the mail.

Well, why not? It would certainly cut down on the instances of busybodies pretending that poor people are somehow spending "their" (the busybody's, that is) money on stuff that they don't specifically approve of.


The notion that people whose money is taken from them by force should have no opinion on how it is used is just bizarre.
 
2014-03-23 01:25:04 PM

Mirandized: I really don't see the problem here. These weren't trailer trash, or Mexicans or Blacks. These were White, middle class consumers. They were spending large amounts in their local economies. They were salt of the earth type people. They probably got in a little over their heads; you know, overspent a little. It can happen. Now they are being demonized as fraudsters or worse! I can't believe the vindictive prosecutors in Minnesota are going after these innocent, good-hearted people. Oh, the injustice! Where will it all end?


White people don't have welfare. White people have unemployment assistance (which they have paid into) and TANF/SNAP. But it's not welfare because that's not the image we are trying to conjure when we say welfare.
 
2014-03-23 01:27:22 PM

Sniffers Row: The "Public Assistance" (can't call it welfare, you might hurt feelings), programs in Minnesota are so farked. There has been a rampant abuse problem. People using their prepaid cards for smokes, alcohol, making ATM withdraws,  tattoos... A local news station here did a huge investigation, and county/state officials were all "DERP, we didn't think that the prepaid cards would be abused"

Now getting on the dole is just as easy for some. Be a single mom, have a utility bill in your name showing residence? Here's your benefits! The Megabus that runs between Minneapolis-Milwaukee-Chicago has been nicknamed Moneybus as it's used in some communities as a "commuter line" for people to travel back to MN for a weekend to re-qualify for benefits they shouldn't be getting.


Up here, in Soviet Canuckistan, we issue welfare cheques and treat them like adults and let people do what they want it.

Why do you care if they use it for smokes?
 
2014-03-23 01:30:10 PM

notatrollorami: The My Little Pony Killer: DubyaHater: In fact, let's just send them wads of cash in the mail.

Well, why not? It would certainly cut down on the instances of busybodies pretending that poor people are somehow spending "their" (the busybody's, that is) money on stuff that they don't specifically approve of.

The notion that people whose money is taken from them by force should have no opinion on how it is used is just bizarre.


It's odd that this opinion only seems to extend towards the food that poors buy. Nobody ever demands to review the doggie bag quality in the park. Or what kind of office supplies the city planning department uses.

Hell, I have never seen a single person on the Internet or in person demand to see their local police department purchasing card records to see how cops spend taxpayer money when on duty (they buy crap from fast food places and gas stations quite often). All of those places use taxpayer money.

But for poor people it's different. They need to be micromanaged.
 
2014-03-23 01:31:27 PM

Flab: Sniffers Row: The "Public Assistance" (can't call it welfare, you might hurt feelings), programs in Minnesota are so farked. There has been a rampant abuse problem. People using their prepaid cards for smokes, alcohol, making ATM withdraws,  tattoos... A local news station here did a huge investigation, and county/state officials were all "DERP, we didn't think that the prepaid cards would be abused"

Now getting on the dole is just as easy for some. Be a single mom, have a utility bill in your name showing residence? Here's your benefits! The Megabus that runs between Minneapolis-Milwaukee-Chicago has been nicknamed Moneybus as it's used in some communities as a "commuter line" for people to travel back to MN for a weekend to re-qualify for benefits they shouldn't be getting.

Up here, in Soviet Canuckistan, we issue welfare cheques and treat them like adults and let people do what they want it.

Why do you care if they use it for smokes?


Freaking out about poor people having a few minutes out of misery is an American past time. It's like baseball.
 
2014-03-23 01:39:27 PM
Eh. They're tax evaders that used the fact that they report little or no income, have blank W-2s and extremely low gross numbers on the 1040 to apply for benefits.

Unfortunately, there's probably some obscure law that prevents putting a bullet to them and selling their stuff.
 
2014-03-23 01:40:45 PM

BSABSVR: Flab: Sniffers Row: The "Public Assistance" (can't call it welfare, you might hurt feelings), programs in Minnesota are so farked. There has been a rampant abuse problem. People using their prepaid cards for smokes, alcohol, making ATM withdraws,  tattoos... A local news station here did a huge investigation, and county/state officials were all "DERP, we didn't think that the prepaid cards would be abused"

Now getting on the dole is just as easy for some. Be a single mom, have a utility bill in your name showing residence? Here's your benefits! The Megabus that runs between Minneapolis-Milwaukee-Chicago has been nicknamed Moneybus as it's used in some communities as a "commuter line" for people to travel back to MN for a weekend to re-qualify for benefits they shouldn't be getting.

Up here, in Soviet Canuckistan, we issue welfare cheques and treat them like adults and let people do what they want it.

Why do you care if they use it for smokes?

Freaking out about poor people having a few minutes out of misery is an American past time. It's like baseball.


Hell must be maintained on Earth, as it is in Hell
 
2014-03-23 01:42:33 PM

notatrollorami: The My Little Pony Killer: DubyaHater: In fact, let's just send them wads of cash in the mail.

Well, why not? It would certainly cut down on the instances of busybodies pretending that poor people are somehow spending "their" (the busybody's, that is) money on stuff that they don't specifically approve of.

The notion that people whose money is taken from them by force should have no opinion on how it is used is just bizarre.


You mean like how Walmart takes my tax money to subsidize their profits by  making their employees receive public assistance?
 
2014-03-23 01:43:08 PM

notatrollorami: The My Little Pony Killer: DubyaHater: In fact, let's just send them wads of cash in the mail.

Well, why not? It would certainly cut down on the instances of busybodies pretending that poor people are somehow spending "their" (the busybody's, that is) money on stuff that they don't specifically approve of.

The notion that people whose money is taken from them by force should have no opinion on how it is used is just bizarre.


Well fine then! Let's ALL have a say in how our tax money is spent.

I propose an end to the (Carl Sagan Voice ON) billions and billions (Carl Sagan Voice OFF) that are flushed to the Pentagon without question every year for stealth toilets and Generals' private gold courses.
 
2014-03-23 01:45:32 PM

Krymson Tyde: notatrollorami: The My Little Pony Killer: DubyaHater: In fact, let's just send them wads of cash in the mail.

Well, why not? It would certainly cut down on the instances of busybodies pretending that poor people are somehow spending "their" (the busybody's, that is) money on stuff that they don't specifically approve of.

The notion that people whose money is taken from them by force should have no opinion on how it is used is just bizarre.

You mean like how Walmart takes my tax money to subsidize their profits by  making their employees receive public assistance?


Your response is better than mine. I'll admit it.
 
2014-03-23 01:46:30 PM
A 30k Lexus? Was it used? I got my wife  a Camry XE, not the low end ones, and it was 28k. I'm thinking these writers are Internet smart, not real smart.
 
2014-03-23 01:51:21 PM

DubyaHater: And yet, just yesterday, Farkers were denouncing tighter controls on Welfare. Yes, welfare recipients are all 100% upstanding, honest citizens and do not need restraints. In fact, let's just send them wads of cash in the mail. Dump the EBT card and skip the middle man.


You would save the middle man's fee.

Why does JPMC need to take a slice of welfare benefits?
 
2014-03-23 01:55:16 PM

Mentat: 99.4% of welfare recipients own a yacht.


www.hueylewisandthenews.com
 
2014-03-23 01:59:00 PM
That's seriously Farked-up. That works out to about just under 2000 a month. Who the hell gets 2k a month in assistance?
I thought it was down around 600.00. (I really don't know.)
 
2014-03-23 02:01:55 PM

Mirandized: I really don't see the problem here. These weren't trailer trash, or Mexicans or Blacks. These were White, middle class consumers. They were spending large amounts in their local economies. They were salt of the earth type people. They probably got in a little over their heads; you know, overspent a little. It can happen. Now they are being demonized as fraudsters or worse! I can't believe the vindictive prosecutors in Minnesota are going after these innocent, good-hearted people. Oh, the injustice! Where will it all end?


If you're ordinary and love salt... I've got just the spot for you: New York's hottest holiday club is: BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
 
2014-03-23 02:07:03 PM

Beaver1224: Lucky LaRue: This is just another example of right-wing dog whistling. People don't take advantage of the welfare system.

See, here's the deal.  These people are assholes, and fraudsters.  Yes, there are people that take advantage of the welfare system.  Do you know why there is a news story when they are uncovered?  Because it's news.

Do you know why there isn't a news story when someone is found to be utilizing the welfare system properly?  Because it's so common, it's not news.

/b-b-b-but Derp!


Actually, it would be a compelling informational news story if, during a time when people were accusing the welfare system of being filled with corruption, someone did an investigatory piece.  It's called covering the facts, I know that a number of folks have grown up in a time where the media hasn't done this, but they used to, and it's what they should aspire to do.
 
2014-03-23 02:09:07 PM

North_Central_Positronics: A $30,000 Lexus?   What, was it missing an engine or something?


I wonder if it had big spinning rims and curb feelers.
s28.postimg.org
 
2014-03-23 02:11:46 PM

Mentat: 99.4% of welfare recipients own a yacht.


Literally every single welfare recipient I've read about today has owned a seven-figure yacht and luxury homes in multiple states. WAKE UP, AMERICA.
 
2014-03-23 02:12:54 PM

BSABSVR: Precisely. I love how winners like Lucky and DubyaHater think that some long time white collar con artist acting like a con proves that negroes buy scrimps.


Don't forget lobster.
 
2014-03-23 02:16:56 PM

m00: To be serious, this is what I can't stand about Republicans.

If you want to "end welfare" fine. No corporate welfare to companies like GE. No welfare to wall street. No welfare to the wealthy in the form of generous tax loopholes. No welfare to energy companies, and resource extraction companies. No protected markets. No farm bill. No using our military to aid business interests in foreign countries. Then by all means advocate also ending food stamps and welfare for poor people.

What seriously irritates me is that Republicans only advocate ending assistance to low income people who need it. But billion dollar corporations? Wealthy CEOs? They get to keep their welfare.

I guess we know who has lobbyists and makes campaign contributions. Because that's what this is about. It's about taxing the poor and middle class and giving to wholly to the rich, because rich people pay for political campaigns.

So Republicans: spare me your outrage about poor people gaming public assistance, because this only "outrages" you because they buy refrigerators with the money rather than politicians.


If some of you got out of your echo chamber, you would know that corporate welfare is a big issue amongst conservatives.  I will grant many Republican (but certainly not all) just like many Democrats support corporate welfare.  If your #1 priority in government was to stop corporate welfare, you'd vote for Tea Party candidates.

As for the cretins in TFA, it seems they fraudsters all around as they yacht they never made payments on the yacht they were living in either.
 
2014-03-23 02:17:33 PM
How come I can't pull off anything like this? Guess I don't make enough to start with. You know the saying, it takes money to make money.
 
2014-03-23 02:19:56 PM
Hangin' too good for them.
 
2014-03-23 02:19:57 PM

Beaver1224: Lucky LaRue: This is just another example of right-wing dog whistling. People don't take advantage of the welfare system.

See, here's the deal.  These people are assholes, and fraudsters.  Yes, there are people that take advantage of the welfare system.  Do you know why there is a news story when they are uncovered?  Because it's news.

Do you know why there isn't a news story when someone is found to be utilizing the welfare system properly?  Because it's so common, it's not news.

/b-b-b-but Derp!


i.imgur.com
 
pla
2014-03-23 02:30:21 PM
m00 : What seriously irritates me is that Republicans only advocate ending assistance to low income people who need it. But billion dollar corporations? Wealthy CEOs? They get to keep their welfare.

You realize that in order to properly misuse a strawman argument, you need to base it off a trivially true assertion, right? It doesn't work the other way around.

If you ask a hundred Republicans if we should subsidize Big Oil, you'll get 99 saying "HELL no!", and one excusing himself to attend a BP board meeting. You have made the mistake of conflating our "faithless elected" (aka "all of them") for the party they claim to represent.

But don't let that stand in the way of some good graaar. Carry on.

As an aside - Does no one else suspect the circumstances described in TFA as a classic Joe Job? I realize people get greedy, but seriously? They just happened to apply for welfare benefits around the same time they bought a yacht and moved out of state? Can you say "gardener/neighbor noticed he had access to their mailbox"?

/ Not a republican.
 
2014-03-23 02:34:20 PM

NickelP: What is the point of that? The 20k/year they scammed seems like it wouldn't of changed their life muCH.


Maybe it covered some of their docking fees?
 
2014-03-23 02:38:27 PM

TV's Vinnie: Obviously the solution is to disband all forms of pubic assistance, even to those who clearly need it.

Amidoinitrite, Fox News?


The problem is, according to the rules and regulations in place at the time, enforced by those whose job it is to do so, these people did 'need it', else they would not have gotten the assistance.

In other words, the System is broken. So, what's your solution? Keep using the broken system? Or scrap it and come up with a better one?
 
2014-03-23 02:40:10 PM

The My Little Pony Killer: Stuff like this is why everybody should just get a base standard of living check every month.


Um, I'm all for 'free money', but who's going to pay for this?
 
2014-03-23 02:44:25 PM

thornhill: Let me beat Fox News to the punch: This is evidence that all people abuse the food stamp program, so let's get rid of it.


You are all law abiding welfare recipients... until you're not. Until the number of frauds is zero, we aren't doing enough. Every dollar stolen is a dollar that could have helped the children. Surely you will forfeit some of your outdated rights so we can fix this problem, and save the children.
 
2014-03-23 02:50:18 PM

Lucky LaRue: This is just another example of right-wing dog whistling. People don't take advantage of the welfare system.


Yes they do. And so what.
 
2014-03-23 02:51:14 PM

Doctor Funkenstein: doglover: Just shoot 'em. Somewhere in the guts. And leave 'em adrift on the boat.

I don't know.  The boat sounds kind of nice.  We should give that to Minnesota or Florida and see if they can sell if off and maybe drop a few bucks back in the state coffers to offset these morons duping them.  Maybe we can just gutshot them and when they finally bleed out, that'll be the timer on when the Ebay bids are closed for the SS Florisota.


The state wouldn't want it. Nothing depreciates faster than a yacht - and this is a 1963 model. Ships like the one they live on are advertized in the $300K range excellent condition, And those ships you can actually, well, sail. A lot of times a boat that's spent years in the marina needs so much maintenance the cost is more than the ship is worth. You can buy a boat that might have cost half a mil new for a couple grand sometimes. You'll never be able to afford to sail it, but a couple grand down and a few hundred a month for dock fees - you're one step above an old motor home - with a blown engine. Cheaper than a house. Now, if they lived in a brand new yacht it would be a different story. Google this ship, I found one link that said it wasn't running in '05 - I doubt it's running today. A lot of people live on these non-running ships, they aren't rich.
 
2014-03-23 02:59:52 PM

fredklein: TV's Vinnie: Obviously the solution is to disband all forms of pubic assistance, even to those who clearly need it.

Amidoinitrite, Fox News?

The problem is, according to the rules and regulations in place at the time, enforced by those whose job it is to do so, these people did 'need it', else they would not have gotten the assistance.

In other words, the System is broken. So, what's your solution? Keep using the broken system? Or scrap it and come up with a better one?


The gop solution: scrap it and come up with a better one?
 
2014-03-23 03:08:08 PM

pla: If you ask a hundred Republicans if we should subsidize Big Oil, you'll get 99 saying "HELL no!", and one excusing himself to attend a BP board meeting. You have made the mistake of conflating our "faithless elected" (aka "all of them") for the party they claim to represent.


Bull.  shiat.

CivicMindedFive: If some of you got out of your echo chamber, you would know that corporate welfare is a big issue amongst conservatives.  I will grant many Republican (but certainly not all) just like many Democrats support corporate welfare.  If your #1 priority in government was to stop corporate welfare, you'd vote for Tea Party candidates.


Bull.  shiat.

They have NO problem giving money to the "job creators," otherwise they might get offended and all move to other countries.
 
2014-03-23 03:11:09 PM

Sniffers Row: The "Public Assistance" (can't call it welfare, you might hurt feelings), programs in Minnesota are so farked. There has been a rampant abuse problem. People using their prepaid cards for smokes, alcohol, making ATM withdraws,  tattoos... A local news station here did a huge investigation, and county/state officials were all "DERP, we didn't think that the prepaid cards would be abused"

Now getting on the dole is just as easy for some. Be a single mom, have a utility bill in your name showing residence? Here's your benefits! The Megabus that runs between Minneapolis-Milwaukee-Chicago has been nicknamed Moneybus as it's used in some communities as a "commuter line" for people to travel back to MN for a weekend to re-qualify for benefits they shouldn't be getting.


kimberliah.com
 
2014-03-23 03:14:00 PM
To all of you crowing about how we want to eliminate welfare, you couldn't be further from the truth. We just want some reasonable restrictions to stop situations like this in the future. We could easily implement a federal welfare recipient database which would catch people applying for benefits in multiple states. And/or we could implement a reasonable fee, say $300 or so, to apply for benefits. We could also give them cash and track the serial numbers of every bill given out, which could be tracked back when found at the scene of a crime. Or we could give them special bills with built-in gps receivers and satellite modems and track each bill in real-time.

I'm just getting these obvious ideas from the same place we all do, using my vast knowledge of how the world works as depicted on television and in the movies. They should all be trivial to implement and would not affect the law-abiding welfare recipients. The goal is to make it difficult to choose that lifestyle and cause them to choose an alternative willingly. It is societal change through compassionate regulation.

Think of the children.
 
2014-03-23 03:19:34 PM

TV's Vinnie:
The gop solution: scrap it and come up with a better one?


The first step to building a better house is tearing down the old house.


/or try to renovate it room-by room, while you're still living in it. Which is a nightmare and doesn't allow you to address serious structural problems
 
2014-03-23 03:20:09 PM
fredklein:
The problem is, according to the rules and regulations in place at the time, enforced by those whose job it is to do so, these people did 'need it', else they would not have gotten the assistance.

It says they had money they didn't declare, and weren't residents of (one of) the state they got assistance from.  So... no.

for jokes, I was going to go with:
The rich sure are different: usually poor people waste their welfare on things like food, instead of necessities like yachts.

OR

See, the rich ARE job creators: somebody had to be hired to hunt these people down and arrest them.  Another job is created to guard them in prison... et al.
 
2014-03-23 03:21:57 PM
It seems like they were just all around, garden variety, cheating scumbags and not specifically welfare cheats.  They conned and cheated just about everyone they came in contact with.  I think they're going to end up finding that welfare fraud is going to be the least of their concerns.  Filing those forms with the welfare people constituted mail fraud and that means they crossed over from facing state charges to the wild and wonderful world of federal offenses.
 
2014-03-23 03:26:32 PM

BSABSVR: notatrollorami: The My Little Pony Killer: DubyaHater: In fact, let's just send them wads of cash in the mail.

Well, why not? It would certainly cut down on the instances of busybodies pretending that poor people are somehow spending "their" (the busybody's, that is) money on stuff that they don't specifically approve of.

The notion that people whose money is taken from them by force should have no opinion on how it is used is just bizarre.

It's odd that this opinion only seems to extend towards the food that poors buy. Nobody ever demands to review the doggie bag quality in the park. Or what kind of office supplies the city planning department uses.

Hell, I have never seen a single person on the Internet or in person demand to see their local police department purchasing card records to see how cops spend taxpayer money when on duty (they buy crap from fast food places and gas stations quite often). All of those places use taxpayer money.

But for poor people it's different. They need to be micromanaged.


Hmmm. We have very divergent experiences I guess. I've read epic biatchfests about spending on the military, infrastructure, corporate welfare, bureucratic waste, local pork barrel projects. But I guess you've only ever experienced people biatching about welfare abuse. Weird.
 
2014-03-23 03:26:34 PM

notatrollorami: The My Little Pony Killer: DubyaHater: In fact, let's just send them wads of cash in the mail.

Well, why not? It would certainly cut down on the instances of busybodies pretending that poor people are somehow spending "their" (the busybody's, that is) money on stuff that they don't specifically approve of.

The notion that people whose money is taken from them by force should have no opinion on how it is used is just bizarre.


You agreed to the taxation in your ToS. It's not being ripped untimely from your sweaty little bank account.
 
2014-03-23 03:29:48 PM

weddingsinger: fredklein:
The problem is, according to the rules and regulations in place at the time, enforced by those whose job it is to do so, these people did 'need it', else they would not have gotten the assistance.

It says they had money they didn't declare, and weren't residents of (one of) the state they got assistance from.  So... no.


Then the rules and regulations allowed them to lie and get away with it. Or the rules didn't allow that, but the person who was supposed to enforce those rules didn't follow them.

Or, in other words, "according to the rules and regulations in place at the time, enforced by those whose job it is to do so, these people did 'need it'", it's just that the rules are broken.

The rules didn't catch their lies. Thus the rules are broken and need to be fixed.
 
2014-03-23 03:30:40 PM
They were grifters and got caught, and are being prosecuted.  Good.
 
2014-03-23 03:31:17 PM

m00: To be serious, this is what I can't stand about Republicans.

If you want to "end welfare" fine. No corporate welfare to companies like GE. No welfare to wall street. No welfare to the wealthy in the form of generous tax loopholes. No welfare to energy companies, and resource extraction companies. No protected markets. No farm bill. No using our military to aid business interests in foreign countries. Then by all means advocate also ending food stamps and welfare for poor people.

What seriously irritates me is that Republicans only advocate ending assistance to low income people who need it. But billion dollar corporations? Wealthy CEOs? They get to keep their welfare.

I guess we know who has lobbyists and makes campaign contributions. Because that's what this is about. It's about taxing the poor and middle class and giving to wholly to the rich, because rich people pay for political campaigns.

So Republicans: spare me your outrage about poor people gaming public assistance, because this only "outrages" you because they buy refrigerators with the money rather than politicians.


Did you read the article? This was about rich people getting welfare from fraud. They had $3 million in the bank plus other assets. As for your deal I think you'd be surprised how many people would happily accept your proposition. Personally I would love to get rid of all corporate welfare and start to limit welfare to those who actually need it (developmentally disabled and so on).

/not a Republican
//thinks welfare fraud should require prosecutions just like other crimes
///slashies.
 
m00
2014-03-23 03:31:23 PM

CivicMindedFive: If some of you got out of your echo chamber, you would know that corporate welfare is a big issue amongst conservatives.


Apparently not the ones that get interviewed on Fox.

This is what "don't punish the job creators" is about. It's a double standard.
 
2014-03-23 03:34:22 PM

fredklein: TV's Vinnie:
The gop solution: scrap it and come up with a better one?

The first step to building a better house is tearing down the old house.


/or try to renovate it room-by room, while you're still living in it. Which is a nightmare and doesn't allow you to address serious structural problems


If you tear down the old house to build the new one, where do you live while the construction is in progress?
 
2014-03-23 03:36:21 PM

Lucky LaRue: I wonder how much money Minnesota spent investigating and how much they will spend prosecuting and incarcerating these miscreants.  I'm glad we have government servants ready and willing to save our tax dollars, though..


So you're saying they shouldn't ?

Expecting to call you a dumbass when you say anything other than the state should pursue them vigorously.
 
m00
2014-03-23 03:41:26 PM

onyxruby: As for your deal I think you'd be surprised how many people would happily accept your proposition.


onyxruby: /not a Republican


So far, nobody who has come out against corporate welfare is.

There are only two Republicans I can think of who truly want to end corporate welfare. Sarah Palin and Ron Paul. Neither of which would be particularly good presidents for a wide variety of other reasons. Face it: ending corporate welfare is a fringe position in the Republican Party.

How many Republicans can you think of that want to (actually) end corporate welfare? By "actually" I mean come out and say it in those words.
 
2014-03-23 03:42:18 PM

Bonzo_1116: notatrollorami: The My Little Pony Killer: DubyaHater: In fact, let's just send them wads of cash in the mail.

Well, why not? It would certainly cut down on the instances of busybodies pretending that poor people are somehow spending "their" (the busybody's, that is) money on stuff that they don't specifically approve of.

The notion that people whose money is taken from them by force should have no opinion on how it is used is just bizarre.

You agreed to the taxation in your ToS. It's not being ripped untimely from your sweaty little bank account.


Oh, don't get me wrong, taxes are absolutely necessary and must be enforceable to maintain a functioning society. I simply and literally meant one is forced to pay them as in opting out is not an option.

Because my wife is very successful literally every dollar I made last year went to taxes in some form. I'm ok with that in principle but I sure wish a lot of it was better spent.
 
2014-03-23 03:44:29 PM

Lucky LaRue: This is just another example of right-wing dog whistling. People don't take advantage of the welfare system.


Just be sure you don't mention anything about reforming the system to prevent stuff like this from happening or you will be accused of wanting people to starve. A Fark ProgessiveTM accused me of that when I stated we needed to verify that all participants in the school lunch program qualified.
 
2014-03-23 03:51:00 PM

Bonzo_1116: If you tear down the old house to build the new one, where do you live while the construction is in progress?


A hotel/motel. You know, a place specifically designed to house people for short periods.

If only there were places *cough*charities*cough* that specialized in helping poor people that they could turn to. Or even institutions *cough*churches*cough* that follow rules that specifically tell them to help those in need. If only those existed....
 
2014-03-23 04:01:25 PM

fredklein: Bonzo_1116: If you tear down the old house to build the new one, where do you live while the construction is in progress?

A hotel/motel. You know, a place specifically designed to house people for short periods.

If only there were places *cough*charities*cough* that specialized in helping poor people that they could turn to. Or even institutions *cough*churches*cough* that follow rules that specifically tell them to help those in need. If only those existed....


Then let's hear the proposal for temporary assistance to the unfortunate that will be open to all. Charities and churches reserve the right to refuse their services to those they don't want to deal with.

Are you suggesting that we force the local mosque to admit a homeless alcoholic vet and his dog at their shelter? And I assume the govt would reimburse these charities for their efforts...they'd need guidelines and rules for this, else we'd be overrun with bogus charity scams right out of the gate.
 
2014-03-23 04:01:58 PM

ghare: Sniffers Row: The "Public Assistance" (can't call it welfare, you might hurt feelings), programs in Minnesota are so farked. There has been a rampant abuse problem.....

Liar.


Hmm, the State of Minnesota itself says close to half the people they investigated committed fraud. They discovered errors that would or did cause excess payments in 75% of the cases they investigated. That's 3500 cases of welfare fraud in one year and that's just what they came up with. Of those cases about 1 in 6 was pursued as a criminal matter. Remember that they are by policy lenient on prosecutions of these things. Those are the numbers from the agency in charge of welfare in Minnesota. You know the agency that is most likely to minimize such numbers as they make them look bad.

https://edocs.dhs.state.mn.us/lfserver/Public/DHS-4941-ENG

The problem was so bad with Minnesota benefits getting abused by people moving to Minnesota just to get them that at one point they attempted to pass a law to stop the issue:

http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=886&dat=19940119&id=SbtSAAAAIB AJ &sjid=pH0DAAAAIBAJ&pg=5869,2237379

You'll notice that article is 20 years old. This is a decades old problem that is well known. Instead of attacking people and insulting them why don't you try being civil and debating them instead?
 
2014-03-23 04:02:27 PM

fredklein: TV's Vinnie:
The gop solution: scrap it and come up with a better one?

The first step to building a better house is tearing down the old house.


/or try to renovate it room-by room, while you're still living in it. Which is a nightmare and doesn't allow you to address serious structural problems


You keep assuming that republicans would ever, EVER, come up with ANYTHING with decency or compassion towards the poor, at all.

How many hours have you been on this planet?
 
2014-03-23 04:04:04 PM

SovietCanuckistan: If your name ends in "The Third", you probably do not need any more money.


That's... well... you did qualify it with "probably."

Let's just say I know a guy. Works hard, too; poor bastard. But it's always something.
 
2014-03-23 04:12:20 PM

NickelP: What is the point of that? The 20k/year they scammed seems like it wouldn't of changed their life muCH.


People like count every penny.
 
2014-03-23 04:27:50 PM

fredklein: Bonzo_1116: If you tear down the old house to build the new one, where do you live while the construction is in progress?

A hotel/motel. You know, a place specifically designed to house people for short periods.

If only there were places *cough*charities*cough* that specialized in helping poor people that they could turn to. Or even institutions *cough*churches*cough* that follow rules that specifically tell them to help those in need. If only those existed....


If we stopped giving public assistance as a country, even if their contributions doubled to charities, they wouldn't be able to take up a tenth of the slack.
 
pla
2014-03-23 04:55:11 PM
Satanic_Hamster : Bull.  shiat.

Well now, what can I possibly say to such elegant, well-presented, well-documented argument.  Touche!


Bonzo_1116 : You agreed to the taxation in your ToS.

Sorry, can you show me where I personally signed those terms of service?

It's not being ripped untimely from your sweaty little bank account.

Hi!  Welcome to the USA.  We have a saying, "Only two things in life are certain: Death and Taxes".  The latter, you get to pay "voluntarily" - By which I mean, if you don't, then yes, they will rip it right from your sweaty little bank account.  And that only refers to the extra money you "owe" the taxman, given that in the US, they attach our wages by default, and fine/imprison you if you find a way around that (even if you still pay your full bill come April 15th).


notatrollorami : Oh, don't get me wrong, taxes are absolutely necessary and must be enforceable to maintain a functioning society.

Did you realize that this year - our nation's 238th birthday - we "celebrate" our centennial of paying regular personal income tax?  Strange, how our well-functioning society managed to get by without regular taxes for over half its existence with nothing beyond voluntary lotteries and special wartime assessments.
 
2014-03-23 05:04:30 PM

Bonzo_1116: ...churches reserve the right to refuse their services to those they don't want to deal with.


How...Christian of them.

And I assume the govt would reimburse these charities for their efforts

Why? Charities are specifically designed to help people.
 
2014-03-23 05:06:47 PM

SphericalTime: fredklein: Bonzo_1116: If you tear down the old house to build the new one, where do you live while the construction is in progress?

A hotel/motel. You know, a place specifically designed to house people for short periods.

If only there were places *cough*charities*cough* that specialized in helping poor people that they could turn to. Or even institutions *cough*churches*cough* that follow rules that specifically tell them to help those in need. If only those existed....

If we stopped giving public assistance as a country, even if their contributions doubled to charities, they wouldn't be able to take up a tenth of the slack.


So... after a month or so the lazy will have starved and the non-lazy will have found jobs? Cool.
 
2014-03-23 05:11:52 PM

Sniffers Row: The "Public Assistance" (can't call it welfare, you might hurt feelings), programs in Minnesota are so farked. There has been a rampant abuse problem. People using their prepaid cards for smokes, alcohol, making ATM withdraws,  tattoos... A local news station here did a huge investigation, and county/state officials were all "DERP, we didn't think that the prepaid cards would be abused"

Now getting on the dole is just as easy for some. Be a single mom, have a utility bill in your name showing residence? Here's your benefits! The Megabus that runs between Minneapolis-Milwaukee-Chicago has been nicknamed Moneybus as it's used in some communities as a "commuter line" for people to travel back to MN for a weekend to re-qualify for benefits they shouldn't be getting.


Beyond the fact that you've given no evidence for your claims, are you genuinely complaining that people are using prepaid cards at ATMs?

I live in a sizeable city, but in a part of town that's populated by small businesses that only take cash or checks.  If I go to the corner grocery store and need to spend more than twenty bucks, I often use their ATM.
 
2014-03-23 05:24:19 PM

fredklein: Bonzo_1116: ...churches reserve the right to refuse their services to those they don't want to deal with.

How...Christian of them.

And I assume the govt would reimburse these charities for their efforts

Why? Charities are specifically designed to help people.


Nope, charities exist to fulfill the wishes of their founders and donors. To make it otherwise we'd need to mandate by law how said charities spend their cash. I'm not seeing that we can require that the ASPCA provide shelter beds to humans.

And you're assuming there's enough funding sloshing about in the non-profit sector to feed, clothe, house, and to provide other assistance to *all* in need?
 
2014-03-23 05:30:33 PM

pla: Satanic_Hamster : Bull.  shiat.

Well now, what can I possibly say to such elegant, well-presented, well-documented argument.  Touche!


Bonzo_1116 : You agreed to the taxation in your ToS.

Sorry, can you show me where I personally signed those terms of service?

It's not being ripped untimely from your sweaty little bank account.

Hi!  Welcome to the USA.  We have a saying, "Only two things in life are certain: Death and Taxes".  The latter, you get to pay "voluntarily" - By which I mean, if you don't, then yes, they will rip it right from your sweaty little bank account.  And that only refers to the extra money you "owe" the taxman, given that in the US, they attach our wages by default, and fine/imprison you if you find a way around that (even if you still pay your full bill come April 15th).


notatrollorami : Oh, don't get me wrong, taxes are absolutely necessary and must be enforceable to maintain a functioning society.

Did you realize that this year - our nation's 238th birthday - we "celebrate" our centennial of paying regular personal income tax?  Strange, how our well-functioning society managed to get by without regular taxes for over half its existence with nothing beyond voluntary lotteries and special wartime assessments.


Do you vote? Have you written your congessthing?

You *do* have a say in it. Your voice is only one among many, but that is the nature of a democracy. If you truly disagree with it, you are free to renounce your citizenship and go elsewhere.
 
2014-03-23 05:34:28 PM

North_Central_Positronics: A $30,000 Lexus?   What, was it missing an engine or something?

OH my GERD!  They drove a used Lexus!  They cant do that on public assistance.

Lets make the title; "Couple who lived in a boat tied to a dock"

 
2014-03-23 05:51:38 PM

Bonzo_1116: Nope, charities exist to fulfill the wishes of their founders and donors.


...which is to help those in need. If they don't do that, they aren't a charity.

char·i·ty
ˈCHaritē/
noun
noun: charity; plural noun: charities

1.
the voluntary giving of help, typically in the form of money, to those in need.

2.
an organization set up to provide help and raise money for those in need.
 
2014-03-23 05:55:03 PM

pla: Satanic_Hamster : Bull.  shiat.

Well now, what can I possibly say to such elegant, well-presented, well-documented argument.  Touche!


Bonzo_1116 : You agreed to the taxation in your ToS.

Sorry, can you show me where I personally signed those terms of service?

It's not being ripped untimely from your sweaty little bank account.

Hi!  Welcome to the USA.  We have a saying, "Only two things in life are certain: Death and Taxes".  The latter, you get to pay "voluntarily" - By which I mean, if you don't, then yes, they will rip it right from your sweaty little bank account.  And that only refers to the extra money you "owe" the taxman, given that in the US, they attach our wages by default, and fine/imprison you if you find a way around that (even if you still pay your full bill come April 15th).


notatrollorami : Oh, don't get me wrong, taxes are absolutely necessary and must be enforceable to maintain a functioning society.

Did you realize that this year - our nation's 238th birthday - we "celebrate" our centennial of paying regular personal income tax?  Strange, how our well-functioning society managed to get by without regular taxes for over half its existence with nothing beyond voluntary lotteries and special wartime assessments.


How many carrier groups, interstate highways and Kennedy Space Centers did the US have back then?

What was life expentancy?
 
2014-03-23 06:09:42 PM

pla: Satanic_Hamster : Bull.  shiat.

Well now, what can I possibly say to such elegant, well-presented, well-documented argument.  Touche!


Bonzo_1116 : You agreed to the taxation in your ToS.

Sorry, can you show me where I personally signed those terms of service?

It's not being ripped untimely from your sweaty little bank account.

Hi!  Welcome to the USA.  We have a saying, "Only two things in life are certain: Death and Taxes".  The latter, you get to pay "voluntarily" - By which I mean, if you don't, then yes, they will rip it right from your sweaty little bank account.  And that only refers to the extra money you "owe" the taxman, given that in the US, they attach our wages by default, and fine/imprison you if you find a way around that (even if you still pay your full bill come April 15th).


notatrollorami : Oh, don't get me wrong, taxes are absolutely necessary and must be enforceable to maintain a functioning society.

Did you realize that this year - our nation's 238th birthday - we "celebrate" our centennial of paying regular personal income tax?  Strange, how our well-functioning society managed to get by without regular taxes for over half its existence with nothing beyond voluntary lotteries and special wartime assessments.


If you're simply introducing that as tangential commentary then cool.

If you're equating no income tax to no tax you're being intentionally disingenuous. Debating ad valorem/VAT/tolls and tariffs, income tax, etc. and the rates at which they should be applied is a different discussion entirely. I was simply stating the irrefutable truth that some form of pooling of funds to some central organization in order to maintain border security, some level of personal security, a legal system, infrastructure, etc is necessary to maintain anything resembling a functional independent state.
 
2014-03-23 06:45:10 PM

Flab: pla: Satanic_Hamster : Bull.  shiat.

Well now, what can I possibly say to such elegant, well-presented, well-documented argument.  Touche!


Bonzo_1116 : You agreed to the taxation in your ToS.

Sorry, can you show me where I personally signed those terms of service?

It's not being ripped untimely from your sweaty little bank account.

Hi!  Welcome to the USA.  We have a saying, "Only two things in life are certain: Death and Taxes".  The latter, you get to pay "voluntarily" - By which I mean, if you don't, then yes, they will rip it right from your sweaty little bank account.  And that only refers to the extra money you "owe" the taxman, given that in the US, they attach our wages by default, and fine/imprison you if you find a way around that (even if you still pay your full bill come April 15th).


notatrollorami : Oh, don't get me wrong, taxes are absolutely necessary and must be enforceable to maintain a functioning society.

Did you realize that this year - our nation's 238th birthday - we "celebrate" our centennial of paying regular personal income tax?  Strange, how our well-functioning society managed to get by without regular taxes for over half its existence with nothing beyond voluntary lotteries and special wartime assessments.

How many carrier groups, interstate highways and Kennedy Space Centers did the US have back then?

What was life expentancy?


Better yet:
We had slaves back then and women couldn't vote.  Obviously we need to go back to then.
 
m00
2014-03-23 07:09:59 PM

pla: Did you realize that this year - our nation's 238th birthday - we "celebrate" our centennial of paying regular personal income tax? Strange, how our well-functioning society managed to get by without regular taxes for over half its existence with nothing beyond voluntary lotteries and special artime assessments.


Well, we also weren't the world's largest superpower with 5x the military might of the rest of the planet combined. I mean, that's really what taxes pay for. I would love to say we also pay for social programs... but in fact we don't. We pay for waste related to socialist programs, but this is just a corporate handout by another name. Like how we contract out the issuance of EBT cards for food assistance to private companies who get payed per person-on-food-stamp.

If we really wanted to, we could house, feed, clothe, and give free healthcare to every American and 99.9% of Americans wouldn't see their taxes go up, or the other levels of service they get from the government chance. GE gets a check from the government every year for billions. In every year from 1998 to 2005, 55 percent of large corporations paid no corporate income tax according to a GAO study. Mitt Romney has a tax rate of just over 10%.

So when you say "we 'celebrate' our centennial of paying regular personal income tax? " it really means working middle class people.
 
2014-03-23 07:26:46 PM
The one simple trick that has kept the one percenters on top of the pile for so long, was convincing the following 60% that everything is the fault of the dirt poor people.
 
2014-03-23 09:46:24 PM

onyxruby: ghare: Sniffers Row: The "Public Assistance" (can't call it welfare, you might hurt feelings), programs in Minnesota are so farked. There has been a rampant abuse problem.....

Liar.

Hmm, the State of Minnesota itself says close to half the people they investigated committed fraud. They discovered errors that would or did cause excess payments in 75% of the cases they investigated. That's 3500 cases of welfare fraud in one year and that's just what they came up with. Of those cases about 1 in 6 was pursued as a criminal matter. Remember that they are by policy lenient on prosecutions of these things. Those are the numbers from the agency in charge of welfare in Minnesota. You know the agency that is most likely to minimize such numbers as they make them look bad.

https://edocs.dhs.state.mn.us/lfserver/Public/DHS-4941-ENG


The link says "Completed 6,900 investigations; benefits were stopped or reduced in 47 percent of those cases."  The fraud is 47% of the cases they investigated (~3,200), not 75%.  They updated the database records in 75% of the 6900 cases investigated.  That's not even close to "errors that would or did cause excess payments in 75% of the cases they investigated."   There were errors in the files and they're corrected.  It doesn't say what kind of errors.


There are over 540,000 people in MN on food assistance programs alone.  So even if every one of those 3,200 people was defrauding just the SNAP program and not some other program, you're talking about one half of one percent in confirmed fraud.  One Farking half of one percent.  Even if all 7,000 investigations were found to be fraudulent you're still talking about 1%.  And that's me being generous.  There are a LOT more people on public assistance than just food assistance.

1% doesn't even get me interested.  5% would turn my head a bit.  10% would certainly get my attention.  How about the 50%+ of large corporations that don't pay corporate income tax.  Does that matter?  I'm not trying to change the subject, but the scale of the two problems isn't even comparable.  A few dozens of millions in welfare fraud over thousands of people doesn't even register against a single lunch meeting of corporate heads paying no corporate income tax.

Investigate the fraud and eliminate it but let's not get carried away here.  Unless you've got more data, this isn't a "rampant abuse problem."
 
2014-03-23 11:52:26 PM

gonegirl: Sniffers Row: The "Public Assistance" (can't call it welfare, you might hurt feelings), programs in Minnesota are so farked. There has been a rampant abuse problem. People using their prepaid cards for smokes, alcohol, making ATM withdraws,  tattoos... A local news station here did a huge investigation, and county/state officials were all "DERP, we didn't think that the prepaid cards would be abused"

Now getting on the dole is just as easy for some. Be a single mom, have a utility bill in your name showing residence? Here's your benefits! The Megabus that runs between Minneapolis-Milwaukee-Chicago has been nicknamed Moneybus as it's used in some communities as a "commuter line" for people to travel back to MN for a weekend to re-qualify for benefits they shouldn't be getting.

Beyond the fact that you've given no evidence for your claims, are you genuinely complaining that people are using prepaid cards at ATMs?

I live in a sizeable city, but in a part of town that's populated by small businesses that only take cash or checks.  If I go to the corner grocery store and need to spend more than twenty bucks, I often use their ATM.


The prepaid cards that we give them are supposed to be used to buy food, what grocery store (except your corner Stop n' Rob) doesn't take cards? The issue is, that there were reports of these cards being used at ATM's at tattoo parlors, and casinos, 2 great places to pick up the weeks worth of groceries for the kids.

http://kstp.com/article/stories/s1830297.shtml
http://kstp.com/article/stories/s3229466.shtml
http://kstp.com/article/stories/s3350311.shtml

There are 3 little articles from the local news off of a quick search. If you're bored, and have a LOT of time on your hands, you can certainly google up a bunch more.
 
2014-03-24 12:45:18 AM
Uh, my corner grocery store, a small business that has been around for thirty years, does not take cards.  I guess I could walk to the Stop 'n Go convenience store five blocks further that doesn't have produce or dairy products and is able to process credit cards, but I kind of want some decent food.

I'm sorry that your total assumption that people have the same living situation as you is false.
 
2014-03-24 01:56:08 PM
Because at sea, cheese sandwiches are $8. No Change!
 
2014-03-24 02:55:01 PM
At least I'm consistent, these scumbags should be thrown in jail just like low income welfare cheats. Somehow I get the feeling from some of you that's it's ok to be poor and steal, but it is wrong to be wealthy (or have been wealthy) and steal.
That's because some of you are jealous of anybody with more money than you.
 
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