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(Google)   59 out of 80 dead as Ebola makes another run at the gates. Sleep tight   (google.com) divider line 103
    More: Scary, ebola, protective equipment, Guinean, Doctors Without Borders, World Health Organisation  
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13249 clicks; posted to Main » on 22 Mar 2014 at 7:00 PM (39 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



103 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2014-03-22 07:03:35 PM  
"The Hot Zone" is a very good book worth reading on this subject, even if sometimes the author tries to guess/write fiction at what a person was thinking and what his motivations were even though the book is supposed to be non-fiction.
 
2014-03-22 07:04:30 PM  
img.fark.net

For real this time.

/Damn
 
2014-03-22 07:04:31 PM  
Newsflash from Madagascar:

img2u.info
 
2014-03-22 07:05:06 PM  

Canton: [img.fark.net image 616x662]

For real this time.

/Damn


Shakes tiny fist....
 
2014-03-22 07:05:33 PM  

skinink: "The Hot Zone" is a very good book worth reading on this subject, even if sometimes the author tries to guess/write fiction at what a person was thinking and what his motivations were even though the book is supposed to be non-fiction.


Terrifying book.
 
2014-03-22 07:06:19 PM  

LesserEvil: Canton: [img.fark.net image 616x662]

For real this time.

/Damn

Shakes tiny fist....


Shakes one back

/Great minds
//It was gonna happen
///Etc, etc.
 
2014-03-22 07:06:36 PM  
Always gets me that the numbers are so low. It must present symptoms at almost the same time as it becomes contagious.
 
2014-03-22 07:08:02 PM  
The problem:

download.lardlad.com

'Mmm, I couldn't wait to eat that monkey!'
 
2014-03-22 07:08:22 PM  
i'm old. i think i'll spin 'the survivors' in the disk drive. no not that one. no. no. 1975-1977. i give credit for my public tv in the usa for airing this back in the day.
 
2014-03-22 07:10:14 PM  
Nothing like a nice visit from your friendly hemorrhagic fever that turns your organs to soup and then jumps to the next host. Odd...if you think about it. A virus, that by it's nature, destroys the host that allows it to reproduce and live. Not too smart, but definitely deadly.
 
2014-03-22 07:10:35 PM  
Thanks, Obama... I mean, Ebola.
 
2014-03-22 07:12:51 PM  
Is happy with this development, pleased to meet you, and hopes you guessed his name.

upload.wikimedia.org
 
2014-03-22 07:14:47 PM  

Bit'O'Gristle: Nothing like a nice visit from your friendly hemorrhagic fever that turns your organs to soup and then jumps to the next host. Odd...if you think about it. A virus, that by it's nature, destroys the host that allows it to reproduce and live. Not too smart, but definitely deadly.


You have summarized my dating life.
 
2014-03-22 07:16:20 PM  

Bit'O'Gristle: Nothing like a nice visit from your friendly hemorrhagic fever that turns your organs to soup and then jumps to the next host. Odd...if you think about it. A virus, that by it's nature, destroys the host that allows it to reproduce and live. Not too smart, but definitely deadly.


Pretty much. It's not the most successful virus in terms of spread. (I'd actually give that to any cold virus floating around out there. Sure, the host's immune system typically kills it, but not before the thing has spread just everywhere the host has been.)

Um, it's possible I've read The Andromeda Strain a few too many times.

/One of Crichton's better works.
 
2014-03-22 07:16:39 PM  

wildcardjack: Always gets me that the numbers are so low. It must present symptoms at almost the same time as it becomes contagious.


From what I remember reading, the disease is fatal but the drawbacks it has is that it kills really really fast compared to other diseases and that it is lethal most of the time. Means there are less carriers walking around letting the disease incubate and spread because the people are just dying.
 
2014-03-22 07:16:44 PM  
Do not expose yourself to the bodily fluids of an Ebola victim.

You probably shouldn't drink out of the same glass either.

And double dipping is out of the question.
 
2014-03-22 07:18:51 PM  

megarian: Bit'O'Gristle: Nothing like a nice visit from your friendly hemorrhagic fever that turns your organs to soup and then jumps to the next host. Odd...if you think about it. A virus, that by it's nature, destroys the host that allows it to reproduce and live. Not too smart, but definitely deadly.

You have summarized my dating life.


That summarized my first marriage.  Which still hasn't ended, completely.

/thinks about french kissing an Ebola victim
 
2014-03-22 07:20:26 PM  

megarian: Bit'O'Gristle: Nothing like a nice visit from your friendly hemorrhagic fever that turns your organs to soup and then jumps to the next host. Odd...if you think about it. A virus, that by it's nature, destroys the host that allows it to reproduce and live. Not too smart, but definitely deadly.

You have summarized my dating life.


img.fark.net
?
 
2014-03-22 07:23:26 PM  

skinink: wildcardjack: Always gets me that the numbers are so low. It must present symptoms at almost the same time as it becomes contagious.

From what I remember reading, the disease is fatal but the drawbacks it has is that it kills really really fast compared to other diseases and that it is lethal most of the time. Means there are less carriers walking around letting the disease incubate and spread because the people are just dying.


Hopefully that continues to remain true, if there's ever a mutation that increases the length of time before symptoms appear, we're in real trouble.
 
2014-03-22 07:26:29 PM  
Limited to small outbreaks until a strain develops that can spread by aerosol.
 
2014-03-22 07:27:31 PM  

Reverend J: skinink: wildcardjack: Always gets me that the numbers are so low. It must present symptoms at almost the same time as it becomes contagious.

From what I remember reading, the disease is fatal but the drawbacks it has is that it kills really really fast compared to other diseases and that it is lethal most of the time. Means there are less carriers walking around letting the disease incubate and spread because the people are just dying.

Hopefully that continues to remain true, if there's ever a mutation that increases the length of time before symptoms appear, we're in real trouble.


Doesn't have to be a mutation. A microbiology student could just about make a version with a long latency period and airborne spread in a home lab, and we're just getting closer to that capability daily. Of course, they'd probably be the first person to melt.
 
2014-03-22 07:27:45 PM  
Goddamnit.
 
2014-03-22 07:28:17 PM  

skinink: "The Hot Zone" is a very good book worth reading on this subject, even if sometimes the author tries to guess/write fiction at what a person was thinking and what his motivations were even though the book is supposed to be non-fiction.


CSB

At the time of the Ebola Reston incident, I was a budding young chemist at Hazleton Laboratories in Vienna, VA. Before they got the CDC and eventually USAMRIID involved, they performed the necropsies on the dead monkeys down the hall from my lab (the monkeys were transported from the Reston primate facility to the necropsy lab in Vienna). You could have told us that the monkeys had ebola and none of us would have know what you were talking about. We were told to report any "flu-like" symptoms to the mammalian toxicology folks. If memory serves, I think we had two people get sick, but no one died. It was 100% lethal to the monkeys though.

We all freaked out when "The Hot Zone" came out. Since then, I've gone into computers - much less crazy biohazard exposure.

/CSB
 
2014-03-22 07:29:48 PM  

Marcus Aurelius: megarian: Bit'O'Gristle: Nothing like a nice visit from your friendly hemorrhagic fever that turns your organs to soup and then jumps to the next host. Odd...if you think about it. A virus, that by it's nature, destroys the host that allows it to reproduce and live. Not too smart, but definitely deadly.

You have summarized my dating life.

That summarized my first marriage.  Which still hasn't ended, completely.

/thinks about french kissing an Ebola victim


/well, it doesn't sound like you would be much worse off.  Oh yes, you could be married to my ex wife. I wouldnt wish that on anyone.  You're better off with the ebola lip lock.
 
2014-03-22 07:32:18 PM  

Bit'O'Gristle: Oh yes, you could be married to my ex wife. I wouldnt wish that on anyone. You're better off with the ebola lip lock.


One's a disease that utterly destroys you from the inside out until you wish for death, and the other is an African virus?
 
2014-03-22 07:41:24 PM  

beer4breakfast: Limited to small outbreaks until a strain develops that can spread by aerosol.


Hate to tell you this, but it can spread via airborne droplet. Its no flu wafting around but if someone's hacking up blood keep your distance and keep their blood off of you
 
2014-03-22 07:41:43 PM  

Marcus Aurelius: Do not expose yourself to the bodily fluids of an Ebola victim.

You probably shouldn't drink out of the same glass either.

And double dipping is out of the question.


I guess sex is out of the question too.
 
2014-03-22 07:42:34 PM  

skinink: "The Hot Zone" is a very good book worth reading on this subject, even if sometimes the author tries to guess/write fiction at what a person was thinking and what his motivations were even though the book is supposed to be non-fiction.


Another vote for a "scarey as fark" book. Tom Clancy wrote a book (can't remember the title) that involved a terrorist ebola attack and I often wondered if he used Hot Zone as a source.
 
2014-03-22 07:42:58 PM  
skinink
"The Hot Zone" is a very good book worth reading on this subject,


I was more thinking "Tom Clancy":
This Ebola outbreak is surely connected to the passengers with stolen passports on the missing Malaysian plane and both are linked to Russia stirring up shiat in Ukraine after an ex-NSA spy has defected to Moscow and the release of chemical weapon's in the Middle East by Russia's partner Syria. And it's certainly not a coincidence that Crimea started directly after Russia had the Olympics at another blacksea port.
I'm sure Jack Ryan is already hard at work figuring out what's behind all this.
 
2014-03-22 07:44:03 PM  
It's too bad for the victims, but thank God this stuff kills too fast to sustain any large-scale outbreaks.

Epidemiologist's Lament: If only we could find the host...
 
2014-03-22 07:45:20 PM  

Ginnungagap42: skinink: "The Hot Zone" is a very good book worth reading on this subject, even if sometimes the author tries to guess/write fiction at what a person was thinking and what his motivations were even though the book is supposed to be non-fiction.

CSB

At the time of the Ebola Reston incident, I was a budding young chemist at Hazleton Laboratories in Vienna, VA. Before they got the CDC and eventually USAMRIID involved, they performed the necropsies on the dead monkeys down the hall from my lab (the monkeys were transported from the Reston primate facility to the necropsy lab in Vienna). You could have told us that the monkeys had ebola and none of us would have know what you were talking about. We were told to report any "flu-like" symptoms to the mammalian toxicology folks. If memory serves, I think we had two people get sick, but no one died. It was 100% lethal to the monkeys though.

We all freaked out when "The Hot Zone" came out. Since then, I've gone into computers - much less crazy biohazard exposure.

/CSB


Would be interesting to see how many of you have antibodies against it. As far as ebola reston is concerned I'm not aware of it ever causing known human illness (for sure no fatalities). Of course the rule of thumb for that bug is "yeah, it hasn't done anything yet, but its fraternal twins are bastards and no one wants to be patient zero." Its treated with the same precautions as the other strains
 
2014-03-22 07:45:56 PM  

NutWrench: skinink: "The Hot Zone" is a very good book worth reading on this subject, even if sometimes the author tries to guess/write fiction at what a person was thinking and what his motivations were even though the book is supposed to be non-fiction.

Another vote for a "scarey as fark" book. Tom Clancy wrote a book (can't remember the title) that involved a terrorist ebola attack and I often wondered if he used Hot Zone as a source.


It was Executive Orders, with a related scenario in Rainbow Six.
 
2014-03-22 07:48:24 PM  

All Latest: Marcus Aurelius: Do not expose yourself to the bodily fluids of an Ebola victim.

You probably shouldn't drink out of the same glass either.

And double dipping is out of the question.

I guess sex is out of the question too.


Hemmorhagic fever viruses are nasty buggers when it comes to sex. You can detect live virus up to six weeks after infection for a bunch of them. Provided you survive the initial infection its best to keep it in your pants for quite a while
 
2014-03-22 07:49:28 PM  

Boojum2k: Reverend J: skinink: wildcardjack: Always gets me that the numbers are so low. It must present symptoms at almost the same time as it becomes contagious.

From what I remember reading, the disease is fatal but the drawbacks it has is that it kills really really fast compared to other diseases and that it is lethal most of the time. Means there are less carriers walking around letting the disease incubate and spread because the people are just dying.

Hopefully that continues to remain true, if there's ever a mutation that increases the length of time before symptoms appear, we're in real trouble.

Doesn't have to be a mutation. A microbiology student could just about make a version with a long latency period and airborne spread in a home lab, and we're just getting closer to that capability daily. Of course, they'd probably be the first person to melt.


As someone who just finished my dissertation working with hemorrhagic diseases, specifically looking at attenuating one of them, I can assure you this still isn't anywhere near easy. While the DIY movement is really cool I doubt many would be anywhere near the skill level to even look at modification and characterization of a pathogen, let alone a BSL4 pathogen.

On the other note, yes Ebola virus is very quick and actually fairly difficult to spread, at least the strains which are pathogenic to humans. Reston had evidence of airborne spread in NHPs but no clinical disease in exposed humans. The biggest factors are believed to be exposure to infected vector, shared needles (hospitals recycle them), and direct contact with fluids of near-deceased or deceased. They normally have very close family care in the clinics (aka families feed/bath/clothe) and very direct contact during some funeral rights.

This is the type of outbreak I would love to be involved with, if only EIS took more field based PhDs. Dang MDs and their lack of laboratory training.

Hope they get it under control soon.
 
2014-03-22 07:54:21 PM  

Wicked Chinchilla: beer4breakfast: Limited to small outbreaks until a strain develops that can spread by aerosol.

Hate to tell you this, but it can spread via airborne droplet. Its no flu wafting around but if someone's hacking up blood keep your distance and keep their blood off of you


I was thinking something similar to the Reston strain described in The Hot Zone that only infected chimps.
 
2014-03-22 07:56:04 PM  

PathologyFreak: Boojum2k: Reverend J: skinink: wildcardjack: Always gets me that the numbers are so low. It must present symptoms at almost the same time as it becomes contagious.

From what I remember reading, the disease is fatal but the drawbacks it has is that it kills really really fast compared to other diseases and that it is lethal most of the time. Means there are less carriers walking around letting the disease incubate and spread because the people are just dying.

Hopefully that continues to remain true, if there's ever a mutation that increases the length of time before symptoms appear, we're in real trouble.

Doesn't have to be a mutation. A microbiology student could just about make a version with a long latency period and airborne spread in a home lab, and we're just getting closer to that capability daily. Of course, they'd probably be the first person to melt.

As someone who just finished my dissertation working with hemorrhagic diseases, specifically looking at attenuating one of them, I can assure you this still isn't anywhere near easy. While the DIY movement is really cool I doubt many would be anywhere near the skill level to even look at modification and characterization of a pathogen, let alone a BSL4 pathogen.

On the other note, yes Ebola virus is very quick and actually fairly difficult to spread, at least the strains which are pathogenic to humans. Reston had evidence of airborne spread in NHPs but no clinical disease in exposed humans. The biggest factors are believed to be exposure to infected vector, shared needles (hospitals recycle them), and direct contact with fluids of near-deceased or deceased. They normally have very close family care in the clinics (aka families feed/bath/clothe) and very direct contact during some funeral rights.

This is the type of outbreak I would love to be involved with, if only EIS took more field based PhDs. Dang MDs and their lack of laboratory training.

Hope they get it under control soon.


Its the funeral rights that tend to be particularly devastating. Its really depressing actually because these people have to say goodbye totheir loved ones and the EIS officers have to tell them they have to discard all their cultural norms or risk high chance of death. Once the outbreak is recognized the healthcare related transmissions can be clamped down but people tend to hold on to religious belief more tightly than money...
 
2014-03-22 07:56:57 PM  

LesserEvil: Canton: [img.fark.net image 616x662]

For real this time.

/Damn

Shakes tiny fist....


One.  Farking.  Second.
 
2014-03-22 07:59:01 PM  

beer4breakfast: Wicked Chinchilla: beer4breakfast: Limited to small outbreaks until a strain develops that can spread by aerosol.

Hate to tell you this, but it can spread via airborne droplet. Its no flu wafting around but if someone's hacking up blood keep your distance and keep their blood off of you

I was thinking something similar to the Reston strain described in The Hot Zone that only infected chimps.


Ah. Interestingly that outbreak in reston appeared to potentially have had true airborne tranmission given the geographical locations of the chimps in the facility and which ones got infected
 
2014-03-22 08:00:06 PM  
If they just cook their hamburgers longer this wouldn't happen.
 
2014-03-22 08:00:30 PM  

The Voice of Doom: I was more thinking "Tom Clancy":


Shush. He was right once, please don't tempt fate.

PathologyFreak: As someone who just finished my dissertation working with hemorrhagic diseases, specifically looking at attenuating one of them, I can assure you this still isn't anywhere near easy.


Oh, I know that. As you noted, very very few have the capability. I'm just noting it takes one motivated genius, or a team of lesser lights, for something ugly to happen. Not necessarily on the order of Clancy's Rainbow Six or Frank Herbert's The White Plague, but maybe a 9/11 scale incident.
 
2014-03-22 08:01:56 PM  

Wicked Chinchilla: Ginnungagap42: skinink: "The Hot Zone" is a very good book worth reading on this subject, even if sometimes the author tries to guess/write fiction at what a person was thinking and what his motivations were even though the book is supposed to be non-fiction.

CSB

At the time of the Ebola Reston incident, I was a budding young chemist at Hazleton Laboratories in Vienna, VA. Before they got the CDC and eventually USAMRIID involved, they performed the necropsies on the dead monkeys down the hall from my lab (the monkeys were transported from the Reston primate facility to the necropsy lab in Vienna). You could have told us that the monkeys had ebola and none of us would have know what you were talking about. We were told to report any "flu-like" symptoms to the mammalian toxicology folks. If memory serves, I think we had two people get sick, but no one died. It was 100% lethal to the monkeys though.

We all freaked out when "The Hot Zone" came out. Since then, I've gone into computers - much less crazy biohazard exposure.

/CSB

Would be interesting to see how many of you have antibodies against it. As far as ebola reston is concerned I'm not aware of it ever causing known human illness (for sure no fatalities). Of course the rule of thumb for that bug is "yeah, it hasn't done anything yet, but its fraternal twins are bastards and no one wants to be patient zero." Its treated with the same precautions as the other strains



Two of the mammalian tox techs got sick with very bad flu-like symptoms. Of course, it could have been two very bad cases of flu for all I know. And yeah, zero human fatalities.

I worked in a radiolabeling lab. We always joked that the higher than normal background radiation killed all the bugs in our lab.
 
2014-03-22 08:02:16 PM  

Bit'O'Gristle: Nothing like a nice visit from your friendly hemorrhagic fever that turns your organs to soup and then jumps to the next host. Odd...if you think about it. A virus, that by it's nature, destroys the host that allows it to reproduce and live. Not too smart, but definitely deadly.


That's the sign of a young virus.  Old viruses mutate to let the host live.

That's actually a bad way to look at it because it implies that the virus has a directive.  It doesn't.  It just multiplies, as the Good Agent Smith once said.  What happens is that a virus that is too strong kills its hosts, a virus that is just right will let its hosts live.  The too-strong virus will kill faster than it can spread while the mutation that allows the hosts to live will be able to spread farther.

See?  Isn't it beautiful?  No conscious intent is required.  The nature of virus transmission will always self-correct to the model where the virus isn't TOO deadly.  As long as the organisms that are getting the virus are smart enough to shun their ill instead of helping them... oh dear.

/we are screwed by our very compassion
 
2014-03-22 08:14:17 PM  

wildcardjack: Always gets me that the numbers are so low. It must present symptoms at almost the same time as it becomes contagious.


It's passed on by contact with bodily fluids. Given the symptoms, not going to have a lot of people making contact with an infected person.

skinink: the disease is fatal


The mortality outbreak varies pretty widely based on the outbreak. The worst have been around 95% and the best have been, if I remember right, around 60%. The variation could mean a few things, or it could mean nothing other than just random luck.

BTW anyone up for a Marburg or dengue outbreak? How about Lassa?
 
2014-03-22 08:16:20 PM  

WhyteRaven74: wildcardjack: Always gets me that the numbers are so low. It must present symptoms at almost the same time as it becomes contagious.

It's passed on by contact with bodily fluids. Given the symptoms, not going to have a lot of people making contact with an infected person.

skinink: the disease is fatal

The mortality outbreak varies pretty widely based on the outbreak. The worst have been around 95% and the best have been, if I remember right, around 60%. The variation could mean a few things, or it could mean nothing other than just random luck.

BTW anyone up for a Marburg or dengue outbreak? How about Lassa?


How about no? Does no work for you?

/Aaaaahhhh!  Run away!!!
 
2014-03-22 08:16:32 PM  
Africa. The world's petri dish.
 
2014-03-22 08:17:37 PM  
BTW the worrisome thing with this outbreak, Guinea is nowhere near what was Zaire, now Democratic Republic of the Congo, where ebola is normally found.
 
2014-03-22 08:23:45 PM  
Since Ebola is a virus, if one survives, are they then resistant to that strain?
 
2014-03-22 08:25:13 PM  
What was tthat movie that addressed an epidemic?  not based in Africa, but the result of a chimese pig farming operation. Not "12Monkeys", but close to it.
 
2014-03-22 08:35:54 PM  

WhyteRaven74: BTW the worrisome thing with this outbreak, Guinea is nowhere near what was Zaire, now Democratic Republic of the Congo, where ebola is normally found.


Those places are all in Russia somewhere.  I'll start to worry when it shows up in Canada.
 
2014-03-22 08:44:23 PM  

Ex-Texan: What was tthat movie that addressed an epidemic?  not based in Africa, but the result of a chimese pig farming operation. Not "12Monkeys", but close to it.


you sound drunker than i am

/must rectify
 
2014-03-22 08:45:29 PM  

WhyteRaven74: wildcardjack: Always gets me that the numbers are so low. It must present symptoms at almost the same time as it becomes contagious.

It's passed on by contact with bodily fluids. Given the symptoms, not going to have a lot of people making contact with an infected person.

skinink: the disease is fatal

The mortality outbreak varies pretty widely based on the outbreak. The worst have been around 95% and the best have been, if I remember right, around 60%. The variation could mean a few things, or it could mean nothing other than just random luck.

BTW anyone up for a Marburg or dengue outbreak? How about Lassa?


Lassa is endemic to west Africa.  Infects a couple hundred thousand people every year.  Case fatality stays pretty low until it transmits human to human (it generally spreads from rodent droppings, contaminated meat, water, etc.)
 
2014-03-22 08:49:06 PM  
Was just playing Plague, Inc. a bit ago on android. Getting a kick, etc.

http://www.ndemiccreations.com/en/25-plague-inc-evolved

Started my last one in Egypt. They're always ripe for a bacterial infection with the initial points in airborne/waterborne transmission.
 
2014-03-22 08:51:09 PM  

ElLoco: Was just playing Plague, Inc. a bit ago on android. Getting a kick, etc.

http://www.ndemiccreations.com/en/25-plague-inc-evolved

Started my last one in Egypt. They're always ripe for a bacterial infection with the initial points in airborne/waterborne transmission.


Egypt is my favorite starting point.  Two ports, an airport, and several land borders with different climes.  Its damned bloody ideal.
 
2014-03-22 08:52:50 PM  

wildcardjack: Always gets me that the numbers are so low. It must present symptoms at almost the same time as it becomes contagious.


[shrug]

It's self limiting. Any virus that kills so fast with that kind of death rate simply can't sustain itself long enough to rack up impressive numbers.

Either a virus has to be airborne like flu, or kill slower with fewer deaths, like smallpox, to get your global pandemic totals.
 
2014-03-22 08:53:59 PM  
Yah, this is what's going to get us, eventually.  Or a big farking asteroid...whatever.
 
2014-03-22 08:56:51 PM  

skinink: "The Hot Zone" is a very good book worth reading on this subject, even if sometimes the author tries to guess/write fiction at what a person was thinking and what his motivations were even though the book is supposed to be non-fiction.


The lab in Reston is a daycare now. The Ebola is better than what you'd get there now.
 
2014-03-22 08:58:36 PM  

Gyrfalcon: wildcardjack: Always gets me that the numbers are so low. It must present symptoms at almost the same time as it becomes contagious.

[shrug]

It's self limiting. Any virus that kills so fast with that kind of death rate simply can't sustain itself long enough to rack up impressive numbers.

Either a virus has to be airborne like flu, or kill slower with fewer deaths, like smallpox, to get your global pandemic totals.


Those are pretty basic rules for that game I linked. Gotta get it to spread fast without overly adverse symptoms before the heavy resistance and lethality mutations or cure expenditures skyrocket.
 
2014-03-22 09:02:17 PM  

skinink: From what I remember reading, the disease is fatal but the drawbacks it has is that it kills really really fast compared to other diseases and that it is lethal most of the time. Means there are less carriers walking around letting the disease incubate and spread because the people are just dying.


Plus, pretty easy to spot the guy bleeding from his skin pores..

//literally, god help anyone with ebola. That is a genuinely terrifying pathogen..
 
2014-03-22 09:07:53 PM  

cpw49684: Yah, this is what's going to get us, eventually.  Or a big farking asteroid...whatever.


I'd rather have the asteroid.  I wonder if I can move to Madagascar.
 
2014-03-22 09:12:08 PM  

skinink: "The Hot Zone" is a very good book worth reading on this subject, even if sometimes the author tries to guess/write fiction at what a person was thinking and what his motivations were even though the book is supposed to be non-fiction.


I enjoyed Richard Preston's novel, "The Cobra Event," as well.  His fictional virus causes victims to um, injure themselves.
 
2014-03-22 09:15:22 PM  

bigpeeler: Africa. The world's petri dish.


Well, that's because it's where we all come from. Every microbe and parasite has had a million years to figure out humans.

Anybody know what the reserve population is for Ebola? I don't want to find out it's the african swallow. Bad enough they're always dragging coconuts with them.
 
2014-03-22 09:15:44 PM  

Ex-Texan: What was tthat movie that addressed an epidemic?  not based in Africa, but the result of a chimese pig farming operation. Not "12Monkeys", but close to it.


Contagion

pig/bat virus cocktail
 
2014-03-22 09:20:28 PM  
Always has the best tunes
 
2014-03-22 09:24:12 PM  

Somaticasual: skinink: From what I remember reading, the disease is fatal but the drawbacks it has is that it kills really really fast compared to other diseases and that it is lethal most of the time. Means there are less carriers walking around letting the disease incubate and spread because the people are just dying.

Plus, pretty easy to spot the guy bleeding from his skin pores..

//literally, god help anyone with ebola. That is a genuinely terrifying pathogen..


Rabies.  Farking Rabies man.

If you show symptoms...its already too late.  99% fatality rate.  The one, singular exception in the history of the world where someone survived after showing symptoms is when they dropped the chick into a coma to shut down her CNS and give the body a chance to clear it.  Having to do a force reboot on a human to kill a disease is horrifying.
 
2014-03-22 09:28:32 PM  
Don't act like a savage and dance around in your dead relative's blood and bodily fluids like savages and you'll be fine.
 
2014-03-22 09:40:02 PM  

Wicked Chinchilla: Somaticasual: skinink: From what I remember reading, the disease is fatal but the drawbacks it has is that it kills really really fast compared to other diseases and that it is lethal most of the time. Means there are less carriers walking around letting the disease incubate and spread because the people are just dying.

Plus, pretty easy to spot the guy bleeding from his skin pores..

//literally, god help anyone with ebola. That is a genuinely terrifying pathogen..

Rabies.  Farking Rabies man.

If you show symptoms...its already too late.  99% fatality rate.  The one, singular exception in the history of the world where someone survived after showing symptoms is when they dropped the chick into a coma to shut down her CNS and give the body a chance to clear it.  Having to do a force reboot on a human to kill a disease is horrifying.


Your info is a little old. They had over a half-dozen survivors with that treatment and its success rate is rising.
Still a sucky disease.
 
2014-03-22 09:46:33 PM  

skinink: wildcardjack: Always gets me that the numbers are so low. It must present symptoms at almost the same time as it becomes contagious.

From what I remember reading, the disease is fatal but the drawbacks it has is that it kills really really fast compared to other diseases and that it is lethal most of the time. Means there are less carriers walking around letting the disease incubate and spread because the people are just dying.


My rule when playing pandemic, you want as few symptoms as possible, to the point of "un-evolving" symptoms just to stay on the down-low while building up infection vectors.

I should crack into plague inc. sometime.
 
2014-03-22 09:48:03 PM  

Marcus Aurelius: Do not expose yourself to the bodily fluids of an Ebola victim.

You probably shouldn't drink out of the same glass either.

And double dipping is out of the question.


It's shunning like this that prevents the Ebola positive from leading a normal, healthy lifestyle.

That, and the 80% mortality rate in a week thing
 
2014-03-22 09:49:08 PM  
Eeeeeee-bola
i.imgur.com
 
2014-03-22 10:01:27 PM  

Mister Peejay: That's actually a bad way to look at it because it implies that the virus has a directive.  It doesn't.  It just multiplies, as the Good Agent Smith once said.  What happens is that a virus that is too strong kills its hosts, a virus that is just right will let its hosts live.  The too-strong virus will kill faster than it can spread while the mutation that allows the hosts to live will be able to spread farther.


You ever play a board game called "Black Death?"  You get to be a virus, with various stats, and the aim is to infect the world. If you go too quickly lethal, you don't get far.

ElLoco: Was just playing Plague, Inc. a bit ago on android. Getting a kick, etc.

http://www.ndemiccreations.com/en/25-plague-inc-evolved

Started my last one in Egypt. They're always ripe for a bacterial infection with the initial points in airborne/waterborne transmission.


Ooh.  Sounds like an updated version of the same idea! I need to try this out...

Dallymo: I enjoyed Richard Preston's novel, "The Cobra Event," as well.  His fictional virus causes victims to um, injure themselves.


Was just trying to remember the name of that book as I scrolled down the thread. Yep, great thriller read.

Lesch-Nyhan syndrome is a pretty fascinating google topic too, just by itself.

And rabies... yeah.  The idea that you know you're just going to go insane and die is horrifying. I saw a video once of a kid with rabies (in restraints, in the hospital) and it was hard to watch.
 
2014-03-22 10:11:23 PM  

Old Man Winter: Wicked Chinchilla: Somaticasual: skinink: From what I remember reading, the disease is fatal but the drawbacks it has is that it kills really really fast compared to other diseases and that it is lethal most of the time. Means there are less carriers walking around letting the disease incubate and spread because the people are just dying.

Plus, pretty easy to spot the guy bleeding from his skin pores..

//literally, god help anyone with ebola. That is a genuinely terrifying pathogen..

Rabies.  Farking Rabies man.

If you show symptoms...its already too late.  99% fatality rate.  The one, singular exception in the history of the world where someone survived after showing symptoms is when they dropped the chick into a coma to shut down her CNS and give the body a chance to clear it.  Having to do a force reboot on a human to kill a disease is horrifying.

Your info is a little old. They had over a half-dozen survivors with that treatment and its success rate is rising.
Still a sucky disease.


Strictly speaking, rabies is still 100% fatal. Nobody has ever really survived it without massive heroic medical intervention--and all the survivors you named lived with serious CNS deficits. Rabies has a higher biohazard classification than AIDS because it's so easy to transmit and so impossible to treat.

Luckily for us, there is no hemorrhagic rabies...yet.
 
2014-03-22 10:13:55 PM  
Seriously, just like a farking zombie movie, it's going to be some 3rd world country that kicks off a world-wide pandemic
 
2014-03-22 10:17:59 PM  

beer4breakfast: Limited to small outbreaks until a strain develops that can spread by aerosol.


Already around.
 
2014-03-22 10:23:51 PM  

WhyteRaven74: BTW the worrisome thing with this outbreak, Guinea is nowhere near what was Zaire, now Democratic Republic of the Congo, where ebola is normally found.


It's next door.
 
2014-03-22 10:35:55 PM  
Well, shiat. There went my vacation plans.
 
2014-03-22 10:53:41 PM  
ElLoco: Was just playing Plague, Inc. a bit ago on android. Getting a kick, etc.

http://www.ndemiccreations.com/en/25-plague-inc-evolved

Started my last one in Egypt. They're always ripe for a bacterial infection with the initial points in airborne/waterborne transmission.

Egypt is my favorite starting point.  Two ports, an airport, and several land borders with different climes.  Its damned bloody ideal.


Egypt every time, brilliant starting place, especially if you go all out on the water/airborne traits early on to get it spreading by boat and plane. Only problem is, it seems to be really hard to get to Greenland from there, and whether I manage to infect Greenland or not is generally the win condition - extra cold resistance and drug resistance to build up in the Scandinavian countries is always needed, so they'll send a plague boat to Greenland.
  

TheBigJerk: skinink: wildcardjack: Always gets me that the numbers are so low. It must present symptoms at almost the same time as it becomes contagious.

From what I remember reading, the disease is fatal but the drawbacks it has is that it kills really really fast compared to other diseases and that it is lethal most of the time. Means there are less carriers walking around letting the disease incubate and spread because the people are just dying.

My rule when playing pandemic, you want as few symptoms as possible, to the point of "un-evolving" symptoms just to stay on the down-low while building up infection vectors.

I should crack into plague inc. sometime.


It's a lot of fun, very much the same game as Pandemic, of course, but with a slightly different interface/set of upgrades (IIRC from my days of playing Pandemic). I also suggest trying out the Zombie virus mode on it if you ever get the chance - go balls out infecting people, then send zombie hordes to those countries you failed to infect - take THAT greenland!
 
2014-03-22 11:04:24 PM  
Anybody here ever read Spillover by David Quammen? Excellent book on zoonotic diseases and since it's a recent release it's very up to date.
 
2014-03-22 11:19:51 PM  

Wicked Chinchilla: (it generally spreads from rodent droppings,


yeah, it's like hanta virus that way

machoprogrammer: Since Ebola is a virus, if one survives, are they then resistant to that strain?


In theory, yeah. Maybe.
 
2014-03-22 11:33:02 PM  

vodka: Seriously, just like a farking zombie movie, it's going to be some 3rd world country that kicks off a world-wide pandemic


My money's always been on India or China, but I'll be damned if Africa doesn't win most of the time.

/excluding SARS and Bird flu i guess, but they're pussies compared to what Africa churns out.
 
2014-03-23 12:12:53 AM  

wildcardjack: Always gets me that the numbers are so low. It must present symptoms at almost the same time as it becomes contagious.


People die so quickly from it that usually it doesn't have time to spread too much. The scary case would be hitting in a major city or a large international airport and it took 8-10 hours to notice fully.
 
2014-03-23 12:59:50 AM  
Only killed 59 out of 80 infected so far looks like the tamer version of the disease. Really horrifying stuff.
 
2014-03-23 01:04:46 AM  

FabulousFreep: Only killed 59 out of 80 infected so far looks like the tamer version of the disease. Really horrifying stuff.


73.75% lethal, by sweating blood and liquefying organs. Not a whole lot in real life that's more horrifying.
 
2014-03-23 02:19:46 AM  

Wicked Chinchilla: ElLoco: Was just playing Plague, Inc. a bit ago on android. Getting a kick, etc.

http://www.ndemiccreations.com/en/25-plague-inc-evolved

Started my last one in Egypt. They're always ripe for a bacterial infection with the initial points in airborne/waterborne transmission.

Egypt is my favorite starting point.  Two ports, an airport, and several land borders with different climes.  Its damned bloody ideal.


I like to start in Greenland.  Takes a lot longer to go worldwide, but seriously!  Who expects a dangerous pathogen from Greenland?  Unemployed giants, maybe, but not world-destroying pathogens.
 
2014-03-23 02:43:38 AM  

Bit'O'Gristle: Nothing like a nice visit from your friendly hemorrhagic fever that turns your organs to soup and then jumps to the next host. Odd...if you think about it. A virus, that by it's nature, destroys the host that allows it to reproduce and live. Not too smart, but definitely deadly.


You are assuming humans are the primary host.  We are not.  The virus lives in bats with no known side effects to the bats who are infected, and they unknowingly carry and spread it to more bats and other susceptible species.

beer4breakfast: Limited to small outbreaks until a strain develops that can spread by aerosol.


It already can.  Ebola is classified as a Category A biological weapon.  It will likely be used as a weapon eventually.  The virus can survive in aerosol droplets of water and infect humans through the eyes after sprayed.   The thing about Ebola is that it is relatively easy to contain and quarantine once the initial aerosol infection has spread, so it can be used as a targeted weapon without fear of the outbreak spreading back to friendly forces.

Did I mention the bats which host the virus also occur in many regions in Africa with known terrorist activity, and there are no effective cures or treatments for it?

Sleep tight everyone!
 
2014-03-23 04:23:44 AM  

Great Justice: Bit'O'Gristle: Nothing like a nice visit from your friendly hemorrhagic fever that turns your organs to soup and then jumps to the next host. Odd...if you think about it. A virus, that by it's nature, destroys the host that allows it to reproduce and live. Not too smart, but definitely deadly.

You are assuming humans are the primary host.  We are not.  The virus lives in bats with no known side effects to the bats who are infected, and they unknowingly carry and spread it to more bats and other susceptible species.

beer4breakfast: Limited to small outbreaks until a strain develops that can spread by aerosol.

It already can.  Ebola is classified as a Category A biological weapon.  It will likely be used as a weapon eventually.  The virus can survive in aerosol droplets of water and infect humans through the eyes after sprayed.   The thing about Ebola is that it is relatively easy to contain and quarantine once the initial aerosol infection has spread, so it can be used as a targeted weapon without fear of the outbreak spreading back to friendly forces.

Did I mention the bats which host the virus also occur in many regions in Africa with known terrorist activity, and there are no effective cures or treatments for it?

Sleep tight everyone!


Meh, until they find a way to aerosolize it, slow it down somewhat, and also develop an effective vaccine, I won't be worrying any time soon. It's much too lethal to be an effective bioweapon--the speed and insanely high kill rate makes it self-limiting; while the ease of transmission means the blowback potential makes it as likely to destroy your own population as to kill the enemy. The big snag of ANY bioweapon is that it must kill the enemy without killing your own troops/populace, which is why we've never seen any use of biological agents in any war, any time, anywhere.

For what it's worth, the terrorist organization Aum Shinrikiyo worked on Ebola for some time, with the best biowarfare labs any terror group has ever put together (the best scientists with the most money--they had some really cutting edge scientists working for them for a while), and were never able to isolate any workable virus. And I doubt that the Lord's Resistance Army or any similar group has anything like the millions of dollars and research facilities available to Aum.

I'm going to sleep like a baby.
 
2014-03-23 05:31:42 AM  
upload.wikimedia.org
 
2014-03-23 05:52:53 AM  

Gyrfalcon: Meh, until they find a way to aerosolize it, slow it down somewhat, and also develop an effective vaccine, I won't be worrying any time soon. It's much too lethal to be an effective bioweapon--the speed and insanely high kill rate makes it self-limiting; while the ease of transmission means the blowback potential makes it as likely to destroy your own population as to kill the enemy. The big snag of ANY bioweapon is that it must kill the enemy without killing your own troops/populace, which is why we've never seen any use of biological agents in any war, any time, anywhere.

For what it's worth, the terrorist organization Aum Shinrikiyo worked on Ebola for some time, with the best biowarfare labs any terror group has ever put together (the best scientists with the most money--they had some really cutting edge scientists working for them for a while), and were never able to isolate any workable virus. And I doubt that the Lord's Resistance Army or any similar group has anything like the millions of dollars and research facilities available to Aum.


If you treat it like a conventional weapon of war, yes, it isn't terribly viable compared to existing weapons of war.  It certainly isn't anything compared to nukes if the people who hold them are willing to use them.  The danger of weapons like these lies in covert agents, assassins, and terrorists.  I can't speak for how hard or easy the virus is to culture in a laboratory, but I can only assume the organizations which research it and pursue a cure have managed to do so; it certainly isn't impossible at any rate.

Even so, I'll admit my post is quite alarmist, and the chances of dying in a terrorist attack are extremely less likely than death by heart disease or cancer for most westerners.  The terrorists could probably kill far more of us if they put their efforts into developing some sort of salty chocolate deep fried sugar cubes on a stick to mass market instead.
 
2014-03-23 06:45:06 AM  
Great Justice:

Even so, I'll admit my post is quite alarmist, and the chances of dying in a terrorist attack are extremely less likely than death by heart disease or cancer for most westerners.  The terrorists could probably kill far more of us if they put their efforts into developing some sort of salty chocolate deep fried sugar cubes on a stick to mass market instead.

It sounds like you're talking about weaponized food. Unfortunately, there are temporary labs all over the US regularly working on such WMDs. They're called "State Fairs"
 
2014-03-23 08:01:39 AM  
So they just die and don't turn into zombies? That's boring.
 
2014-03-23 08:29:59 AM  

Boojum2k: The Voice of Doom: I was more thinking "Tom Clancy":


Shush. He was right once, please don't tempt fate.


I'm just going to put this out there and suggest there's a 0% possibility of Tom Clancy writing a novel like that.

Plus, from his wiki page:

upload.wikimedia.org

Someone small-faced-Romney'd that image, right?
 
2014-03-23 09:49:30 AM  

Bit'O'Gristle: Nothing like a nice visit from your friendly hemorrhagic fever that turns your organs to soup and then jumps to the next host. Odd...if you think about it. A virus, that by it's nature, destroys the host that allows it to reproduce and live. Not too smart, but definitely deadly.


That's the main reason that Ebola outbreaks don't spread too far, geographically.  They happen in a remote enough place where the victims are dead before they can spread it beyond the local area.  A version of Ebola with a longer incubation period would be a potential cataclysm.

Ebola isn't the only virus that kills its host and spreads, far from it.  It just kills quickly, and very graphically.  HIV works on the same model of killing its host while it spreads, it just does it over a period of a number of years instead of days.  Interestingly enough, both reached the human population by jumping species from primates.
 
2014-03-23 11:03:08 AM  

Gyrfalcon: The big snag of ANY bioweapon is that it must kill the enemy without killing your own troops/populace, which is why we've never seen any use of biological agents in any war, any time, anywhere.


What? Japan bombed China with plague.

"Despite its strong ideological tone and many obvious shortcomings such as the lack of international participation, the Khabarovsk War Crime Trials established beyond reasonable doubt that the Japanese army had prepared and deployed bacteriological weapons and that Japanese researchers had conducted cruel experiments on living human beings. However, the trial, together with the evidence presented to the court and its major findings - which have proved remarkably accurate - was dismissed as communist propaganda and totally ignored in the West until the 1980s."
 
2014-03-23 11:34:33 AM  
s14.postimg.org
 
2014-03-23 12:32:50 PM  
Took long enough for Plague Inc. to show up.
 
2014-03-23 12:49:40 PM  

beer4breakfast: Limited to small outbreaks until a strain develops that can spread by aerosol.


Stop trying to cheer me up.

If AIDS didn't convince Africans to take some basic precautions, this won't, either. For the most part, the entire social security net is "have eight kids so two will live to take care of you when you are ready to die at 52".
 
2014-03-23 01:06:24 PM  

Great Justice: Bit'O'Gristle: Nothing like a nice visit from your friendly hemorrhagic fever that turns your organs to soup and then jumps to the next host. Odd...if you think about it. A virus, that by it's nature, destroys the host that allows it to reproduce and live. Not too smart, but definitely deadly.

You are assuming humans are the primary host.  We are not.  The virus lives in bats with no known side effects to the bats who are infected, and they unknowingly carry and spread it to more bats and other susceptible species.

beer4breakfast: Limited to small outbreaks until a strain develops that can spread by aerosol.

It already can.  Ebola is classified as a Category A biological weapon.  It will likely be used as a weapon eventually.  The virus can survive in aerosol droplets of water and infect humans through the eyes after sprayed.   The thing about Ebola is that it is relatively easy to contain and quarantine once the initial aerosol infection has spread, so it can be used as a targeted weapon without fear of the outbreak spreading back to friendly forces.

Did I mention the bats which host the virus also occur in many regions in Africa with known terrorist activity, and there are no effective cures or treatments for it?

Sleep tight everyone!


Isolating these things is hard. Its not as simple as catching a dozen bats and collecting their blood. Read some papers published in the last few years about marburg. They were able to isolate it from bats but the number of isolates they got was in the .x% range. And they had to go through some hoops to get those. Bats aren't the way to obtain it effectively. If someone is going to grab it my money is them getting it from an outbreak.
 
2014-03-23 01:14:14 PM  

WhyteRaven74: Wicked Chinchilla: (it generally spreads from rodent droppings,

yeah, it's like hanta virus that way

machoprogrammer: Since Ebola is a virus, if one survives, are they then resistant to that strain?

In theory, yeah. Maybe.


Hanta is a virus that does not get the attention it could easily merit. Depending on the strain case fatality can approach 50%. And that strain is native in the american west. Its always surprised me how renowned these foreign nasties are but hanta is pretty unknown
 
2014-03-23 03:36:52 PM  
Somewhat relevant to my interests.
 
2014-03-23 04:18:30 PM  

Wicked Chinchilla: WhyteRaven74: Wicked Chinchilla: (it generally spreads from rodent droppings,

yeah, it's like hanta virus that way

machoprogrammer: Since Ebola is a virus, if one survives, are they then resistant to that strain?

In theory, yeah. Maybe.

Hanta is a virus that does not get the attention it could easily merit. Depending on the strain case fatality can approach 50%. And that strain is native in the american west. Its always surprised me how renowned these foreign nasties are but hanta is pretty unknown


The government only allows General Mills to put a few grams of rat poo in my Reese's Puffs
 
2014-03-23 07:16:50 PM  

people_are_chumps: skinink: "The Hot Zone" is a very good book worth reading on this subject, even if sometimes the author tries to guess/write fiction at what a person was thinking and what his motivations were even though the book is supposed to be non-fiction.

Terrifying book.


"black vomit"

/you're welcome.
 
2014-03-23 07:17:35 PM  

LesserEvil: Newsflash from Madagascar:

[img2u.info image 649x714]


you don't have any friends in real life, do you?
 
2014-03-23 09:17:47 PM  

machoprogrammer: Since Ebola is a virus, if one survives, are they then resistant to that strain?


Yes.

I watched a doc on pbs as a kid. Showed an ebola outbreak and the effort to find the cause and cure.

Totally blew my mind. Town of 200k people, no running water, no electricity. The scientists were walking through the forest in full biohazard suits, while the native people, barefoot, barely clothed, looked on bemusedly.

There were two survivors, and some of the European drs decided to draw their blood and inject it into the infected patients.

The other researchers were horrified, but if i remember correctly, they were able to cure a few people with injection of the blood.
 
KIA
2014-03-23 11:01:32 PM  
Uh-oh.   They are saying 8 of the healthcare workers have died and it has spread to the capital...

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-03-23/ebola-spreads-to-guinea-cap it al-conakry-with-at-least-59-deaths.html
 
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