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(TampaBay.com (St. Petersburg Tim)   Church of Scientology leader David Miscavige meets with Clearwater leaders to complain about the local newspaper and discuss how best to continue taking over the city   (tampabay.com) divider line 60
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5928 clicks; posted to Main » on 22 Mar 2014 at 9:26 AM (25 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



Voting Results (Smartest)
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2014-03-22 10:01:38 AM
8 votes:

Benevolent Misanthrope: Anyone want to tell me how Scientology's beliefs are less credible than other religions'?


Cause a Bible is free and there are even people who put them in hotel rooms. If you want to know what's in Scientology, pull out your wallet.

That's a rather large difference to me.
2014-03-22 10:16:33 AM
5 votes:

Benevolent Misanthrope: Lots of things are free.  I don't think being in a hotel room is a great indicator of the credibility of anything.  And are you really going to pretend that other churches don't ask for money?

Anyone else?


By the way, this is so childish to have to explain to an adult, but I guess you are all "all religions are dopey and I am smart and I can't tell the difference from one to the other because I'm too smart to understand how to do that," but it's not WHAT Scientology believes that makes them a cult.

It's the HOW. And the WAY.

You can grab that Gideons' Bible from a hotel room and go walk off to the woods with it and be the best Christian ever.

You cannot do that with Scientology. It is more like a college curriculum, and those credit hours are EXPENSIVE.
2014-03-22 10:15:21 AM
4 votes:

Confabulat: Benevolent Misanthrope: Lots of things are free.  I don't think being in a hotel room is a great indicator of the credibility of anything.  And are you really going to pretend that other churches don't ask for money?

Have you read how Scientology works? It's more or less a systematic hypnosis system. I'm no Christian, but I certainly understand the difference between a religion and a cult.


Many churches use group hypnosis. Chanting, singing, and group prayer are effective tools for this. Pretty harmless. Scientology is more like a systematic brainwashing system. The main difference between a religion and a cult is the way in which you are cut off from other support systems.
2014-03-22 10:06:46 AM
4 votes:

Benevolent Misanthrope: Lots of things are free.  I don't think being in a hotel room is a great indicator of the credibility of anything.  And are you really going to pretend that other churches don't ask for money?


Have you read how Scientology works? It's more or less a systematic hypnosis system. I'm no Christian, but I certainly understand the difference between a religion and a cult.
2014-03-22 09:58:38 AM
4 votes:

PC LOAD LETTER: "Miscavige" is practically a fictional evil name, leveraging "mis" as in "misanthropy"


It's kind of a portmanteau of Misanthrope, Carrion, and Savage, to my ear.  It evokes strong feelings of distrust and loathing, and did before I even knew anything about the guy.
2014-03-22 09:13:31 AM
4 votes:

PC LOAD LETTER: "Miscavige" is practically a fictional evil name, leveraging "mis" as in "misanthropy"


It always instantly evoked the phrase "miscarriage of justice" for me.
2014-03-22 08:10:37 AM
4 votes:
Meanwhile in Texas, he's fighting tooth and nail not to have to testify in a Scientology harassment case against the wife of Miscavige's former right hand.
2014-03-22 12:08:16 PM
3 votes:

Benevolent Misanthrope: Explain for me, please, how Scientology's beliefs are any less credible than other religions'.


Other religions demand cash for progress through a system of levels ?
Do they promise you special powers if you pay them lots of money ?
Are they based on esoteric nonsense by a convicted scam artist ?
Do they hide their scripture and only let you look at it for payment ? by the way, anyone notices a common theme to all of thi$ ?
Do they also keep folders of potential blackmail material on their followers ?

And i'm not getting into classic cult stuff here like forced slavery, family disconnection, brainwashing etc.
2014-03-22 11:16:52 AM
3 votes:

Benevolent Misanthrope: starsrift: Benevolent Misanthrope: elvisaintdead: Benevolent Misanthrope: SecretAgentWoman: Dammit...link.

Religion.  Crazy-ass cult. Such a positive force in society.

fify.
I'm no god-squadder by any means, but $cientology is a religion as much as a rancid hot dog is a hot off the grill T-bone steak with all the fixins.

Explain for me, please, how Scientology's beliefs are any less credible than other religions'.

They don't even make sense to people who believe in those other religions.

I'm sure Catholic beliefs make no sense to Scientologists, either.

Anyone want to tell me how Scientology's beliefs are less credible than other religions'?


Because the Catholic church was founded 2014 years ago when people believed the Earth was flat and at the center of the Universe. Because we celebrate Christmas and Easter and Christian-lore is a part of all Westerner and Middle-Easterner's culture. It's still mumbo-jumbo, but everybody knows the story of Christ and God.

Scientology was founded in 1953 on a bet, and it postulates that thousands of giant intergalactic 747s full of aliens were flown into volcanoes, and now those alien's souls inhabit your body, and only after paying around $500,000 can you have them removed. I'm ignostic, but even I can recognize that Scientology is a completely different beast than Christianity.

Look at David Miscavige himself. Where's his wife at? Oh that's right, she went against his orders on how to run the part of the church she was in charge of and nobody has seen her since. Seriously, look this up if you don't know about it. Scientology has lost a number of celebrity members over his missing wife. (She's alive, he's just had her completely isolated for the past decade, even from her church members friends.)

All religion on some level is a cult, hell, professional sports teams have cults built around them. Starbucks is a cult, but Scientology takes it a step further and forbids you to ever have contact again with people who dont follow their religion, including your family. That makes it a cult more so than just about any other religion.

Scientology is the North Korea of religions.
2014-03-22 10:15:29 AM
3 votes:
Scientology isn't a scam religion. It's an evil Lovecraftian cult that worships a gigantic eldritch abomination that lives under the state of Florida. And that's why Florida is so crazy! Everyone there is being driven insane by being in the presence of a Lovecraftian monstrosity.
2014-03-22 12:10:46 PM
2 votes:

Without Fail: Benevolent Misanthrope: Explain for me, please, how Scientology's beliefs are any less credible than other religions'.

The creator of Scientology (L. Ron Hubbard) said "You don't get rich writing science fiction. If you want to get rich, you start a religion" during an Eastern Science Fiction Association meeting on November 11, 1948.


Boom. Nailed it. And Benevolent Misanthrope is now tagged 'Secret Scientologist'.
2014-03-22 10:15:20 AM
2 votes:

Benevolent Misanthrope: Confabulat: Benevolent Misanthrope: Anyone want to tell me how Scientology's beliefs are less credible than other religions'?

Cause a Bible is free and there are even people who put them in hotel rooms. If you want to know what's in Scientology, pull out your wallet.

That's a rather large difference to me.

Lots of things are free.  I don't think being in a hotel room is a great indicator of the credibility of anything.  And are you really going to pretend that other churches don't ask for money?

Anyone else?


What I think is different is that we have pretty clear evidence that Co$ was a pure fabrication of L Ron Hubbard. So, with Co$, there isn't even a pretense that the people in charge actually believe any of what they peddle.
2014-03-22 10:11:11 AM
2 votes:
Was Mr Miscavige's wife at the meeting?
2014-03-22 09:38:18 AM
2 votes:
They should have asked David how his wife was doing...and to bring her along next time.
2014-03-22 09:37:04 AM
2 votes:

Benevolent Misanthrope: SecretAgentWoman: Dammit...link.

Religion.  Crazy-ass cult. Such a positive force in society.


fify.
I'm no god-squadder by any means, but $cientology is a religion as much as a rancid hot dog is a hot off the grill T-bone steak with all the fixins.
2014-03-22 09:37:01 AM
2 votes:

Relatively Obscure: Not many people look more like some fictional villain than that guy.


How weird is it that he really is a villain?


By all the accounts I've read, Scientology was pretty bad under L. Ron Hubbard, but Miscavige really lifted it to a whole new level of evil.
2014-03-22 09:34:52 AM
2 votes:
Not many people look more like some fictional villain than that guy.


How weird is it that he really is a villain?
2014-03-22 08:40:32 AM
2 votes:
"Miscavige" is practically a fictional evil name, leveraging "mis" as in "misanthropy"
2014-03-22 08:11:43 AM
2 votes:
Dammit...link.
2014-03-23 01:51:43 AM
1 votes:
Ya ever get the feeling when you hear "but all religions are bad" in a Scientology thread that it's some sort of twisted Scientology "talking point?" In one way or another, it does put them in the same field as other religious entities.

I mean, as opposed to purely being a money making scam masquerading as a church.
2014-03-23 01:20:54 AM
1 votes:
My mother and father were married by the Church of Scientology, my father was a memeber.  When his mental illness was developing, on their advice he avoided medication and treatment.  Let me say that I did not have a happy childhood.

Now as a man, they call me and solicit donations.   Sharing the same name as my father I understand the mistake and asked them to remove my name from their lists.  On the second call, I explained the pain and suffering I endured as a boy partially due to them and asked again to remove my name from their lists and to cease calling me.

Finally, today they called.  Od it was this morning....well I explained again all that i had before.  I also added in the fact that if they call me again that I will find their call center, fly to it's city, go their on it's busiest day and chain it's doors shut.  Then i will burn the building down with all of them inside.   I farking hate these guys.
2014-03-22 07:15:58 PM
1 votes:

Benevolent Misanthrope: Gothnet: Benevolent Misanthrope: LOL, no. All of these things are comparisons of acts which have entirely different motivations and intents. Scientology does not differ in motivation or intent from "real religions".

False.

The motivations of most traditional religions are (gen) well meaning but misguided. The motivations of scientology are cynical and exploitative. The beliefs themselves are irrelevant, the actions of the 'church' are the only relevant part.

But you know this, and have just chosen to troll, so good luck to you.

Wow, are you naïve.

Scientology - just like every other religion - is indeed cynically exploitative.  Its adherents - just like every other religion - are well-meaning but misguided.

Man, even atheists become religion apologists when confronted with the question, "where is the line between religion and cult?".  Very interesting.  Insults, "because I said so", ignoring similarities, false comparisons... but no one willing to really think about this and decide where the line is or even if it exists.

I'm still debating the question myself, by the way.  Which is why I always ask the question in these "IT'S A CULT!" threads, and why I keep dismissing spurious arguments.


I'm still not sure if you are trolling or not, but I'll take a shot.

Scientology is more concerned with recruiting people who have money and are wiling to pay for their services/enlightenment. They tend to hook people with "personality tests", and from there, they hope the new recruits will bring in friends, family, and so on. Of course, the personality tests will indicate that they have some sort of flaw, and oh-my-goodness we happen to have a course that will help you to overcome that flaw! It's only $xx! The amounts are small at first, but over time, each new book, their "truth machines", their religious doctrines, all require more and more money to progress along their road to salvation. These salvation levels are referred to as Thetans, with the current highest being 7. There are rumors of a level 9, but I have only found reference to that in one or two sources, so I'll stick to 7 for now.

Now, lets pretend that Suzy Smith, who took that free personality test, finds herself another Scilon and they have kids. Well, of course they are going to want to raise Bobby Jr in the church, so they enroll him in Scientology-based schools that teach their own curriculum and helps to insulate the children from outside influences. Then there is the Billion-Year Contract that they push on kids, sometimes as young as 6. But for argument's sake, lets say that Bobby Jr was 12 when he signed, and his parents, devoted Scions that they are, agreed to let him travel around the world as a member of Sea Org, their priesthood. Bobby is then relegated to hard menial labor for little or no pay. Scions have their own language and terminology, and they do well to keep their "crew" insulated from outside negative influences... so by having their own society, hierarchy, lingo, and teaching Scions to buy the newest book or two donate money for another building (Sea Org members get it all for free... except if they leave the church then they are billed outrageous amounts of money for those training materials).

People who were raised in Scientology, when they leave, they often cannot function within society. Permission for everything that most of us would consider a basic right, such as carrying a driver's license, is only granted if you have a legitimate need to operate a vehicle, and oftentimes they take all forms of identification from members and lock it in the office safe. Thus, even if they wanted to leave, Scientology has their paperwork and will require them to take long, deeply personal "sec checks" before they can leave. Sometimes these last for hours, other times, days. Then from there, once they are free, many times their friends and family are forced to cut off contact with them, since they are now an outcast.

While I could explain more, like I said, I am still not sure if you are trolling or not, but this is the reader's digest version of their operations. Whether or not their religious doctrine is right, I cannot say. But I can state that the isolationist and operational ethics match those of many cults, and most people who defect from Scientology often refer to the brainwashing tactics.
2014-03-22 03:51:11 PM
1 votes:

Benevolent Misanthrope: Gothnet: Benevolent Misanthrope: LOL, no. All of these things are comparisons of acts which have entirely different motivations and intents. Scientology does not differ in motivation or intent from "real religions".

False.

The motivations of most traditional religions are (gen) well meaning but misguided. The motivations of scientology are cynical and exploitative. The beliefs themselves are irrelevant, the actions of the 'church' are the only relevant part.

But you know this, and have just chosen to troll, so good luck to you.

Wow, are you naïve.

Scientology - just like every other religion - is indeed cynically exploitative.  Its adherents - just like every other religion - are well-meaning but misguided.

Man, even atheists become religion apologists when confronted with the question, "where is the line between religion and cult?".  Very interesting.  Insults, "because I said so", ignoring similarities, false comparisons... but no one willing to really think about this and decide where the line is or even if it exists.

I'm still debating the question myself, by the way.  Which is why I always ask the question in these "IT'S A CULT!" threads, and why I keep dismissing spurious arguments.


In a book debating whether the ancient druidic tradition was "cultic" or "religious" it came down to the difference between the presence of a group of full time religious specialists. Professional religious specialists were the defining characteristic of a religion, cults do not have a professional class like that.

Now that was based on European anthropological traditions which vary significantly sometimes from American anthropological perspectives.

From an academic point of view I would suggest that more important than that is the relative openness of the faith. Religions are classed according to whether they are proselytizing or not. Many faiths such as Judaism, Shinto and many Native American belief systems are closed. Only those born into the faith should practice it, often because of a belief that each person is born into a particular family for a reason. To switch to another is to risk insulting both those one abandons and those one decides to worship. Generally they hold views like "many paths lead to the same place" or "Just as God gave us five fingers, so he gave us many ways to approach him." That is not always the case but most do not question the validity of other faiths for other people in other places.

Proselytizing faiths tend to be more of an asshole. They claim exclusiveness. They are the Christians, Muslims, etc. Some such as the Baha'i are chill about the whole thing but still claim ultimate authority.

Now, there have always been those deemed "cults" and often they claimed that teem for themselves, like the Greek mystery cults like those built up around Pythagoras and Epicurus.

The thing about cults is that they are closed. They are "proselytizing" but very carefully control access to what is really going on. They hide details even from their own members, requiring acts of loyalty, tests and so on before the "next level" is revealed. And they tend to seek retribution against those who reveal their mysteries.

I couldn't even tell you if CoS counts as a religion by the definition of professional specialist class devoted to ritual, because despite being prosetylizing they don't let enough knowledge get out to answer that question. It is this secrecy combined with levels of mysteric knowledge and reputation for retribution that marks them as a cult.

The attempted infiltration and overthrow of the US government makes them idiot subversive cultists. Their hunting down and allegedly killing apostates made them idiotic, subversive and dangerous cultists.
2014-03-22 02:14:33 PM
1 votes:

Benevolent Misanthrope: Explain for me, please, how Scientology's beliefs are any less credible than other religions'.


From a humanitarian point of view, most religions are a socializing influence; they teach love, tolerance, forgiveness, working together, right from wrong, and so on (though most don't follow those teachings well). Scientology on the other hand is distinctly anti-social; get what you can, take down those that oppose you in any way you can get away with, hoard knowledge and don't share unless you get something for it, ties should be broken if your beliefs differ, anyone not with us is an enemy, and so on. I'm an atheist, but I can clearly see the disconnect between what should be considered a religion and what should be considered a cult. Religions go hand in hand with society. Cults separate, fight, and try to subsume or substitute themselves for society.
2014-03-22 12:56:17 PM
1 votes:

Benevolent Misanthrope: And we're now back to insults. No one seems to think about this. Kind of sad, really.


No, what's kinda sad you profess not to be able to see any difference yourself, in order to attract attention to yourself on an internet message board.
2014-03-22 12:16:39 PM
1 votes:
Does Scientology make peoples' lives better? Let's ask Lisa McPherson!
2014-03-22 11:58:38 AM
1 votes:
Well let us not overlook a HUGE difference between Scientology and most standard religions:

Scientology requires you to spend many hours in courses that are designed to brainwash and hypnotize you. I used to own one of L. Ron's course original course manuals from his early courses, and that stuff is like LSD.

Scientology is designed to redesign the person's entire way of thinking and even their vocabulary. L. Ron ripped off a lot of early hypnosis and psychology theories, but he did manage to make it work incredibly well.

Sure you could argue all religions involve a bit of brainwashing and whatnot, but L. Ron wrote out detailed instructions. You either make that ashtray levitate or spend another few thousand trying again next time.
2014-03-22 11:56:46 AM
1 votes:
If any of you young 'uns are baffled by all the hubbub (ha) over Scientology. you may want to take a look over here.
2014-03-22 11:43:56 AM
1 votes:

Without Fail: Benevolent Misanthrope: Explain for me, please, how Scientology's beliefs are any less credible than other religions'.

The creator of Scientology (L. Ron Hubbard) said "You don't get rich writing science fiction. If you want to get rich, you start a religion" during an Eastern Science Fiction Association meeting on November 11, 1948.


Do you really think that, of all the sects of all the "real religions" in the world, none of them was created equally cynically?
2014-03-22 11:28:29 AM
1 votes:
But many of Miscavige's complaints were directed at the Times, Horne said.
"He was complaining about you guys more than anything," he said



I suddenly like the Tampa Bay Times a whole lot more.
2014-03-22 11:19:00 AM
1 votes:

Benevolent Misanthrope: Scientology does not differ in motivation or intent from "real religions".


So, "real religions" have the intent of brainwashing you, taking your entire fortune (not just 10%), forcing you to work for them for just barely enough to keep yourself alive, and will threaten to reveal every secret they forced out of you if you attempt to leave?

Say what you will about the Catholic church, but the higher-ups there at least seem to believe in NOT making people sign a billion year contract to serve in a private navy.
2014-03-22 11:13:16 AM
1 votes:

Relatively Obscure: Not many people look more like some fictional villain than that guy.


How weird is it that he really is a villain?


In Florida, we like our villains to look the part.

i.imgur.com
2014-03-22 11:09:26 AM
1 votes:

Gothnet: Benevolent Misanthrope: LOL, no. All of these things are comparisons of acts which have entirely different motivations and intents. Scientology does not differ in motivation or intent from "real religions".

False.

The motivations of most traditional religions are (gen) well meaning but misguided. The motivations of scientology are cynical and exploitative. The beliefs themselves are irrelevant, the actions of the 'church' are the only relevant part.

But you know this, and have just chosen to troll, so good luck to you.


Wow, are you naïve.

Scientology - just like every other religion - is indeed cynically exploitative.  Its adherents - just like every other religion - are well-meaning but misguided.

Man, even atheists become religion apologists when confronted with the question, "where is the line between religion and cult?".  Very interesting.  Insults, "because I said so", ignoring similarities, false comparisons... but no one willing to really think about this and decide where the line is or even if it exists.

I'm still debating the question myself, by the way.  Which is why I always ask the question in these "IT'S A CULT!" threads, and why I keep dismissing spurious arguments.
2014-03-22 11:01:50 AM
1 votes:

Benevolent Misanthrope: LOL, no. All of these things are comparisons of acts which have entirely different motivations and intents. Scientology does not differ in motivation or intent from "real religions".


False.

The motivations of most traditional religions are (gen) well meaning but misguided. The motivations of scientology are cynical and exploitative. The beliefs themselves are irrelevant, the actions of the 'church' are the only relevant part.

But you know this, and have just chosen to troll, so good luck to you.
2014-03-22 10:57:44 AM
1 votes:

Mock26: So what if jesus and mohammad and Buddha all lived? The idea of their being divine beings is no more far-fetched than that of the idea of Xenu.


This part of the conversation is pretty much irrelevant.

The beliefs are not the issue, it's the actions of the 'church' that are so objectionable. If you're not sure what those actions are, a quick google will inform you.
2014-03-22 10:56:50 AM
1 votes:

Tyrone Slothrop: Benevolent Misanthrope: Confabulat: Benevolent Misanthrope: Lots of things are free.  I don't think being in a hotel room is a great indicator of the credibility of anything.  And are you really going to pretend that other churches don't ask for money?

Anyone else?

By the way, this is so childish to have to explain to an adult, but I guess you are all "all religions are dopey and I am smart and I can't tell the difference from one to the other because I'm too smart to understand how to do that," but it's not WHAT Scientology believes that makes them a cult.

It's the HOW. And the WAY.

You can grab that Gideons' Bible from a hotel room and go walk off to the woods with it and be the best Christian ever.

You cannot do that with Scientology. It is more like a college curriculum, and those credit hours are EXPENSIVE.

But you can't be a good Catholic that way.  Are you telling me Catholicism isn't a religion?

Get over your snarky little self.  I'm making a point, which is that it's really only a matter of degrees.  Enough people start to believe Scientology, it will be socially acceptable and be thought of as a religion instead of a cult.

Voluntary sex vs rape. It's only a matter of degree.

A tap on the shoulder vs stabbing. It's only a matter of degree,
Lighting a fire to keep warm vs burning a building down. It's only a matter of degree.
 
LOL, no.  All of these things are comparisons of acts which have entirely different motivations and intents.  Scientology does not differ in motivation or intent from "real religions".
2014-03-22 10:51:51 AM
1 votes:

Benevolent Misanthrope: Confabulat: Benevolent Misanthrope: Lots of things are free.  I don't think being in a hotel room is a great indicator of the credibility of anything.  And are you really going to pretend that other churches don't ask for money?

Have you read how Scientology works? It's more or less a systematic hypnosis system. I'm no Christian, but I certainly understand the difference between a religion and a cult.

So, explain it to me.  Because I've never gotten anyone to give me a reason better than, "Religions are just like cults, only more people believe in them and therefore they're socially more acceptable."


It's quite obvious you don't actually want anyone to explain it to you
2014-03-22 10:49:39 AM
1 votes:

lizyrd: Benevolent Misanthrope: Confabulat: Benevolent Misanthrope: Lots of things are free.  I don't think being in a hotel room is a great indicator of the credibility of anything.  And are you really going to pretend that other churches don't ask for money?

Anyone else?

By the way, this is so childish to have to explain to an adult, but I guess you are all "all religions are dopey and I am smart and I can't tell the difference from one to the other because I'm too smart to understand how to do that," but it's not WHAT Scientology believes that makes them a cult.

It's the HOW. And the WAY.

You can grab that Gideons' Bible from a hotel room and go walk off to the woods with it and be the best Christian ever.

You cannot do that with Scientology. It is more like a college curriculum, and those credit hours are EXPENSIVE.

But you can't be a good Catholic that way.  Are you telling me Catholicism isn't a religion?

Get over your snarky little self.  I'm making a point, which is that it's really only a matter of degrees.  Enough people start to believe Scientology, it will be socially acceptable and be thought of as a religion instead of a cult.

Let's start with even the slightest basis for reality. Historical Jesus existed. Likewise, Mohammed lived, as did Buddha. So at the very least, there is a material starting point. Compare that to Xenu. An alien made up from wholecloth by a science fiction writer. Even as a non-believer, in my mind Christianity/Islam/other already has a leg up on Scientology.

I don't believe that Jesus rose from the dead any more than I believe that Xenu blew up a volcano filled with souls. I do find a difference in a mythology about a man that actually walked the earth which can be traced to multiple sources, and Scientology.


So what if jesus and mohammad and Buddha all lived?  The idea of their being divine beings is no more far-fetched than that of the idea of Xenu.
2014-03-22 10:47:40 AM
1 votes:

Benevolent Misanthrope: Confabulat: Benevolent Misanthrope: Lots of things are free.  I don't think being in a hotel room is a great indicator of the credibility of anything.  And are you really going to pretend that other churches don't ask for money?

Anyone else?

By the way, this is so childish to have to explain to an adult, but I guess you are all "all religions are dopey and I am smart and I can't tell the difference from one to the other because I'm too smart to understand how to do that," but it's not WHAT Scientology believes that makes them a cult.

It's the HOW. And the WAY.

You can grab that Gideons' Bible from a hotel room and go walk off to the woods with it and be the best Christian ever.

You cannot do that with Scientology. It is more like a college curriculum, and those credit hours are EXPENSIVE.

But you can't be a good Catholic that way.  Are you telling me Catholicism isn't a religion?

Get over your snarky little self.  I'm making a point, which is that it's really only a matter of degrees.  Enough people start to believe Scientology, it will be socially acceptable and be thought of as a religion instead of a cult.


Let's start with even the slightest basis for reality. Historical Jesus existed. Likewise, Mohammed lived, as did Buddha. So at the very least, there is a material starting point. Compare that to Xenu. An alien made up from wholecloth by a science fiction writer. Even as a non-believer, in my mind Christianity/Islam/other already has a leg up on Scientology.

I don't believe that Jesus rose from the dead any more than I believe that Xenu blew up a volcano filled with souls. I do find a difference in a mythology about a man that actually walked the earth which can be traced to multiple sources, and Scientology.
2014-03-22 10:43:57 AM
1 votes:

Benevolent Misanthrope: Confabulat: Benevolent Misanthrope: I'm making a point, which is that it's really only a matter of degrees.

It's a bad point. Scientology is a business like Herbalife. Do people make money off Christianity? Well, duh. of course they do. But NO ONE is allowed to teach or make money off Scientology EXCEPT for the Church of Scientology, because they own all the copyrights and trademarks. There is a sort of Luther-ian offshoot of Scientology these days that doesn't recognize Miscavige's church, but they are continually being sued for trying to use L. Ron Hubbard's rather insane lessons without proper legal ability.

It's like if Disney owned the Bible.

A matter of degrees? Of course. So what? It's a ton of degrees away from any free religion.

<shrug>  Okay, there's no good reason then.


It's funny to see these people sidestep the question every time.
2014-03-22 10:43:10 AM
1 votes:

BluVeinThrobber: Diogenes: BluVeinThrobber: Diogenes: BluVeinThrobber: badhatharry: No comment. I have nothing negative to say about Scientology.

You should try a little  harder

I see you enjoy raping babies.

Only your mom's

It's a Co$ thing.

I dont own any t-shirts with logos on  them


What I'm saying is that this is a Co$ tactic.  It's something they are trained to do when presented with critics or other opposition -- a ridiculous and extreme non sequitur.  They commonly use the "raping babies" thing.
2014-03-22 10:34:28 AM
1 votes:
Meh, no different than what other business and religious leaders have been doing for years.
2014-03-22 10:30:06 AM
1 votes:
Read one a Elron's books one time
never heard someone talk so much and say so little...
Travolta approves
2014-03-22 10:27:17 AM
1 votes:

Benevolent Misanthrope: starsrift: Benevolent Misanthrope: elvisaintdead: Benevolent Misanthrope: SecretAgentWoman: Dammit...link.

Religion.  Crazy-ass cult. Such a positive force in society.

fify.
I'm no god-squadder by any means, but $cientology is a religion as much as a rancid hot dog is a hot off the grill T-bone steak with all the fixins.

Explain for me, please, how Scientology's beliefs are any less credible than other religions'.

They don't even make sense to people who believe in those other religions.

I'm sure Catholic beliefs make no sense to Scientologists, either.

Anyone want to tell me how Scientology's beliefs are less credible than other religions'?


the issue is not their beliefs, they're no more crazy than magic underwear or statues crying blood tears.  What people take issue with is their methods and practices.  It is here where they zoom so far away from the line of their religious peers that A) they can't even see the line, and B) they've come into and possibly crossed ANOTHER line, that of organized crime operations.
2014-03-22 10:20:04 AM
1 votes:

Confabulat: Benevolent Misanthrope: Lots of things are free.  I don't think being in a hotel room is a great indicator of the credibility of anything.  And are you really going to pretend that other churches don't ask for money?

Anyone else?

By the way, this is so childish to have to explain to an adult, but I guess you are all "all religions are dopey and I am smart and I can't tell the difference from one to the other because I'm too smart to understand how to do that," but it's not WHAT Scientology believes that makes them a cult.

It's the HOW. And the WAY.

You can grab that Gideons' Bible from a hotel room and go walk off to the woods with it and be the best Christian ever.

You cannot do that with Scientology. It is more like a college curriculum, and those credit hours are EXPENSIVE.


But you can't be a good Catholic that way.  Are you telling me Catholicism isn't a religion?

Get over your snarky little self.  I'm making a point, which is that it's really only a matter of degrees.  Enough people start to believe Scientology, it will be socially acceptable and be thought of as a religion instead of a cult.
2014-03-22 10:15:52 AM
1 votes:

Confabulat: Benevolent Misanthrope: Lots of things are free.  I don't think being in a hotel room is a great indicator of the credibility of anything.  And are you really going to pretend that other churches don't ask for money?

Have you read how Scientology works? It's more or less a systematic hypnosis system. I'm no Christian, but I certainly understand the difference between a religion and a cult.


^ ^ ^ ^ ^
2014-03-22 10:05:55 AM
1 votes:

Benevolent Misanthrope: starsrift: Benevolent Misanthrope: elvisaintdead: Benevolent Misanthrope: SecretAgentWoman: Dammit...link.

Religion.  Crazy-ass cult. Such a positive force in society.

fify.
I'm no god-squadder by any means, but $cientology is a religion as much as a rancid hot dog is a hot off the grill T-bone steak with all the fixins.

Explain for me, please, how Scientology's beliefs are any less credible than other religions'.

They don't even make sense to people who believe in those other religions.

I'm sure Catholic beliefs make no sense to Scientologists, either.

Anyone want to tell me how Scientology's beliefs are less credible than other religions'?


Credibility? No more or less. The harrasment they perpetuate is on a completely different level. Its not an unbiased source, but check out clambake.org.
2014-03-22 10:05:30 AM
1 votes:

starsrift: Benevolent Misanthrope: I'm sure Catholic beliefs make no sense to Scientologists, either.

Anyone want to tell me how Scientology's beliefs are less credible than other religions'?

That's not nearly as relevant as Protestant beliefs making sense to Catholics, or Jews, etc.


Come again?  Not sure what that has to do with Scientology being less credible in their beliefs than other religions.
2014-03-22 10:05:18 AM
1 votes:

BluVeinThrobber: Diogenes: BluVeinThrobber: badhatharry: No comment. I have nothing negative to say about Scientology.

You should try a little  harder

I see you enjoy raping babies.

Only your mom's


It's a Co$ thing.
2014-03-22 10:00:02 AM
1 votes:
I knew a guy in high school who was very intelligent.  Acted normally enough, in terms of HS students.  Ran into him a few years later and he told me that he'd joined that particular "church."  I was speaking with the same physical human, but his brain was making wharb-garble come out of his mouth.  Found out a few years later that he'd committed suicide.

/not-so-cool story, bro'
2014-03-22 09:58:53 AM
1 votes:

Relatively Obscure: Not many people look more like some fictional villain than that guy.


How weird is it that he really is a villain?


The map of the world in the background was a nice touch.
2014-03-22 09:58:25 AM
1 votes:

Benevolent Misanthrope: elvisaintdead: Benevolent Misanthrope: SecretAgentWoman: Dammit...link.

Religion.  Crazy-ass cult. Such a positive force in society.

fify.
I'm no god-squadder by any means, but $cientology is a religion as much as a rancid hot dog is a hot off the grill T-bone steak with all the fixins.

Explain for me, please, how Scientology's beliefs are any less credible than other religions'.


They don't even make sense to people who believe in those other religions.
2014-03-22 09:55:41 AM
1 votes:

elvisaintdead: Benevolent Misanthrope: SecretAgentWoman: Dammit...link.

Religion.  Crazy-ass cult. Such a positive force in society.

fify.
I'm no god-squadder by any means, but $cientology is a religion as much as a rancid hot dog is a hot off the grill T-bone steak with all the fixins.


Explain for me, please, how Scientology's beliefs are any less credible than other religions'.
2014-03-22 09:54:59 AM
1 votes:

PC LOAD LETTER: "Miscavige" is practically a fictional evil name, leveraging "mis" as in "misanthropy"


I was thinking along the lines of "Miscreant."
2014-03-22 09:53:47 AM
1 votes:

badhatharry: No comment. I have nothing negative to say about Scientology.


You should try a little  harder
2014-03-22 09:45:32 AM
1 votes:

Relatively Obscure: Not many people look more like some fictional villain than that guy.


How weird is it that he really is a villain?


Melakon/Stalin evil, with a helping of Westboro and a side order of NSA.
2014-03-22 09:45:21 AM
1 votes:
I am not saying these were Thetons but these were Thetons.

/oobscurities?
2014-03-22 09:43:53 AM
1 votes:
Wait, they opened the Flag Building?  Now what will they use as a continual "target" for their fundraising?  And how long before we see members who can phase through walls and revive the dead?

(The building was originally estimated to cost something like $25 million, and later $50.  It was later found out they had raised something close to $150 million for its construction, yet the building still wasn't finished for over ten years - raising the likelihood that that was the plan all along, and it was only designed as a cash cow.)
2014-03-22 09:38:07 AM
1 votes:

jake_lex: Is that pic of him from TFA a still from American Psycho?  I expect him to start lecturing me about how much better Genesis became after Gabriel left and Phil Collins took over.


Better afterwards? Evil bastard.
MFK
2014-03-22 09:37:28 AM
1 votes:

Relatively Obscure: Not many people look more like some fictional villain than that guy.


How weird is it that he really is a villain?


came in here to post the exact same thing.

If i were a city leader, i would try to keep this scary asshole as far away from my town as possible.
 
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