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(The Atlantic)   The reality in America is that gay people are poorer than straight Americans because they're gay. The myth that they're a privileged set is just that .. a myth   (m.theatlantic.com) divider line 133
    More: Obvious, Americans, gays and lesbians, Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia, LGBT rights organizations, gay equality, Will & Grace, UCLA School of Law, homeless youth  
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4128 clicks; posted to Main » on 22 Mar 2014 at 7:05 AM (27 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-03-22 12:06:34 AM
Bull. Every gay person I know is right on par with the rest of society. Some are rich. Some are middle class. Some are poor. This is just divisive BS to keep us fighting with each other, instead of focusing on real problems and criminals.
 
2014-03-22 12:22:38 AM

kidakita: Bull. Every gay person I know is right on par with the rest of society. Some are rich. Some are middle class. Some are poor. This is just divisive BS to keep us fighting with each other, instead of focusing on real problems and criminals.


Right.  Gay men and lesbians aren't more likely to be fired, more likely to be on food stamps, more likely to be kicked out of the house during their teen years (thereby putting them at a lifetime disadvantage)...  None of that exists.  Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.  All is well.
 
2014-03-22 12:25:31 AM

Benevolent Misanthrope: kidakita: Bull. Every gay person I know is right on par with the rest of society. Some are rich. Some are middle class. Some are poor. This is just divisive BS to keep us fighting with each other, instead of focusing on real problems and criminals.

Right.  Gay men and lesbians aren't more likely to be fired, more likely to be on food stamps, more likely to be kicked out of the house during their teen years (thereby putting them at a lifetime disadvantage)...  None of that exists.  Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.  All is well.


I wouldn't be surprised if gay affluence looks a bit like an inverted bell curve.  On one hand you have those who have a rough transition into adulthood due to the reasons you mentioned, but on the other hand gay people are less likely to have kids, and gay couples are oftentimes DINKs, so they'd have more expendable income.
 
2014-03-22 12:31:41 AM

TuteTibiImperes: Benevolent Misanthrope: kidakita: Bull. Every gay person I know is right on par with the rest of society. Some are rich. Some are middle class. Some are poor. This is just divisive BS to keep us fighting with each other, instead of focusing on real problems and criminals.

Right.  Gay men and lesbians aren't more likely to be fired, more likely to be on food stamps, more likely to be kicked out of the house during their teen years (thereby putting them at a lifetime disadvantage)...  None of that exists.  Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.  All is well.

I wouldn't be surprised if gay affluence looks a bit like an inverted bell curve.  On one hand you have those who have a rough transition into adulthood due to the reasons you mentioned, but on the other hand gay people are less likely to have kids, and gay couples are oftentimes DINKs, so they'd have more expendable income.


Perhaps.  I'd like to see that broken out by gay men and lesbians.  Anecdotally, every gay man who has that supposed "disposable income" is probably balanced out by a lesbian who can't break the glass ceiling.
 
2014-03-22 01:01:05 AM

Benevolent Misanthrope: kidakita: Bull. Every gay person I know is right on par with the rest of society. Some are rich. Some are middle class. Some are poor. This is just divisive BS to keep us fighting with each other, instead of focusing on real problems and criminals.

Right.  Gay men and lesbians aren't more likely to be fired, more likely to be on food stamps, more likely to be kicked out of the house during their teen years (thereby putting them at a lifetime disadvantage)...  None of that exists.  Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.  All is well.


My gay uncle who was fabulously wealthy in the 80's due to his art galleries in both SF and NYC (home in the Hamptons) after his relationship with his partner of over 30 years and the fact that he's now pennyless because of his partners family after my Uncle Buzz died. Our family finally found him in Penn station in NYC three years ago homeless. Trying to help him.

/one of my personal reasons for marriage equality
 
2014-03-22 01:55:02 AM

kidakita: Bull. Every gay person I know is right on par with the rest of society. Some are rich. Some are middle class. Some are poor. This is just divisive BS to keep us fighting with each other, instead of focusing on real problems and criminals.


Well, thank God every person you know is exactly representative of the national average. Problem solved.
 
2014-03-22 02:45:33 AM
All the numbers in the article bother me.  If you're focusing on poverty, you're going to get the picture for poor people.  If you're doing marketing studies, you're likely focusing on the people who aren't poor.  That's also not a complete picture.

Unless there's a graph that looks at the full distribution of income for gay vs. straight, at least by quintile, it's not going to give a semblance of an accurate picture.  Beyond that, one that breaks it down further by something like states with same-sex marriage vs. states that don't, might give a clue if the more anti-gay states are driving the higher poverty rates.  Graphs of income distributions of gay vs. straight men and lesbian vs. straight women would also help.

The US is huge, with different states that have different cultures (and subcultures), and a large population.  Just because you can do the math to get percentages for all straight people vs. all gay people doesn't mean it tells the whole story.  If the poverty rate for gay people in the more anti-gay states is what's driving the increased poverty percentage for gay people overall, it's a very different story than if it's evenly distributed.
 
2014-03-22 07:02:26 AM
Believe me, sweetie, its not all cocktails and poppers! (well, sometimes it is)

By the time I pay my personal trainer, my personal chef, my florist, my tailor, and my drug dealers, I'm broke!
 
2014-03-22 07:07:21 AM
I'd also like to see data broken down by dependents/no dependents, which is really the kicker we're dealing with here.
 
2014-03-22 07:15:08 AM
I never really put any thought into it but due to the prohibitions against same sex couples from marrying and adoption, which are only recently overturning, I would have guessed homosexuals would be wealthier on overage.  Children are money pits.  Laws preventing same-sex couple from raising these money pits would allow homosexuals to accumulate wealth more easily.
 
2014-03-22 07:19:38 AM
You notice the rich gays because they flaunt, but the poor all look the same.
 
2014-03-22 07:19:46 AM

Muta: I never really put any thought into it but due to the prohibitions against same sex couples from marrying and adoption, which are only recently overturning, I would have guessed homosexuals would be wealthier on overage.  Children are money pits.  Laws preventing same-sex couple from raising these money pits would allow homosexuals to accumulate wealth more easily.


It's difficult to know without data: yes, kids are money pits and gay people are statistically less likely to have kids, but running two households instead of one is also a money pit, and things like no kids, lack of marriage, social acceptability means that long term gay couples will likely be still running separate homes long after a straight couple would have married and gone down to one mortgage/rent/insurance etc.
 
2014-03-22 07:21:52 AM

TuteTibiImperes: gay couples are oftentimes DINKs


that's some seriously low-hanging fruit right there
 
2014-03-22 07:21:58 AM
So they're like every other minority. Sadly Unspecial.
 
2014-03-22 07:22:07 AM
static.fjcdn.com
 
2014-03-22 07:22:34 AM
Well, that sucks.  I always liked the idea of gay couples being better educated and earning more than their straight counterparts.  In my mind, it made a strong argument for why gays should be allowed to marry and have children and all that jazz.  I mean, com'on....just look at all these horrible straight parents!  And we already know gays are better than straights in really important ways that dramatically affect their standard of living.  They are better educated!  They have better jobs!  They have better wages.  If anything, I'd expect them to be BETTER equipped to raise a child than straight people.

Now, it seems that's not true.  'Don't let gays adopt - they'll just end up on food stamps.  They can't hold down a job.  It's legal to fire them for being gay, and they are gay, they have no job security.  It's not fair to the child to let them adopt.'
 
2014-03-22 07:24:28 AM

Muta: I never really put any thought into it but due to the prohibitions against same sex couples from marrying and adoption, which are only recently overturning, I would have guessed homosexuals would be wealthier on overage.  Children are money pits.  Laws preventing same-sex couple from raising these money pits would allow homosexuals to accumulate wealth more easily.


Medical bills are also a money pit, and due to laws both partners would need insurance in most states. It's a pretty big financial burden to not be able to marry.
 
2014-03-22 07:27:28 AM

some_beer_drinker:


This meme really does get over/misused a lot.

/I'm sure that poverty, abuse, ostracism, and broken homes are a very real problem for gays in more rural states.
 
2014-03-22 07:27:32 AM
The reality is that the world shouldn't revolve around gays, what they are doing, what they are making, or how they feel. Please stop trying to make every farking issue about homosexuals. 

Stop being drama whores, thanks.
 
2014-03-22 07:27:59 AM
Hopefully the actual study is better - but just the text given on the article doesn't really tell you much of anything.  A slightly higher rate of public assistance doesn't mean the average gay person isn't more affluent.  It would just mean there is a different distribution curve.

It could be that gays gravitate to either end of the spectrum, having more poor and having more wealthy.  The median salary for gays could still be higher and the disposable income could be higher (disposable income is really the metric I look at to determine how well to do someone is).
 
2014-03-22 07:29:20 AM

Fark_Guy_Rob: Hopefully the actual study is better - but just the text given on the article doesn't really tell you much of anything.  A slightly higher rate of public assistance doesn't mean the average gay person isn't more affluent.  It would just mean there is a different distribution curve.

It could be that gays gravitate to either end of the spectrum, having more poor and having more wealthy.  The median salary for gays could still be higher and the disposable income could be higher (disposable income is really the metric I look at to determine how well to do someone is).


That would also link up with homelessness data, with young kids kicked out their homes radically over represented, which would heavily skew the stats.
 
2014-03-22 07:32:16 AM
dnrfa, don't need too: the myth stems from a time (that is still the present in a depressing amount of places), when only financially secure people felt safe being open about their sexuality.  you work in a factory or a warehouse, you put up with a whole lot that would never pass in an office setting.  and you stfu, because you need the paycheck.  labor isn't respected, the worker isn't respected, and there isn't even a nod to equality in a lot of these settings.   it's disgusting, and it just doesn't seem to change.
 
2014-03-22 07:32:58 AM
Men earn money to get pussy, and once they've got the pussy, to provide for offspring. If you're not trying to get pussy, you probably don't work so hard.
 
2014-03-22 07:33:02 AM
Maybe but they make up for it with their amazing ability to decorate on a tight budget.
 
2014-03-22 07:33:20 AM
Still, my hovel is eclectically yet quite tastefully appointed.
 
2014-03-22 07:35:27 AM
Sure. Buy a house in Provincetown, MA.
35,000 affluent summer people over 3,500 year-round poor locals.
Jesuth, it'th like the Real Ethtate market justht wanth our money!

Yes. You're here, you're queer, give up your money, deal with it.
Also see: Truro, MA and Welfleet, MA.
 
2014-03-22 07:37:10 AM

vernonFL: Believe me, sweetie, its not all cocktails and poppers! (well, sometimes it is)

By the time I pay my personal trainer, my personal chef, my florist, my tailor, and my drug dealers, I'm broke!


Aaannd now we know Mitt Romney's FARK handle.
 
2014-03-22 07:38:58 AM
Did the republican talking point of " Stop being poor" just expand to "If you stop being gay, you can stop being poor"?
 
2014-03-22 07:39:29 AM

atomicmask: The reality is that the world shouldn't revolve around gays, what they are doing, what they are making, or how they feel. Please stop trying to make every farking issue about homosexuals. 

Stop being drama whores, thanks.


Ahhh, good ol' Republican bigotry, out in the open where you can smell it. Smells like shiat, true..
 
2014-03-22 07:40:30 AM

Benevolent Misanthrope: kidakita: Bull. Every gay person I know is right on par with the rest of society. Some are rich. Some are middle class. Some are poor. This is just divisive BS to keep us fighting with each other, instead of focusing on real problems and criminals.

Right.  Gay men and lesbians aren't more likely to be fired, more likely to be on food stamps, more likely to be kicked out of the house during their teen years (thereby putting them at a lifetime disadvantage)...  None of that exists.  Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.  All is well.



I have been under the impression that gays have a higher than average income, but that might just be liberal media bias spreading rumors.



Gay Couples More Educated, Higher-Income Than Heterosexual Couples

Gay people earn more, owe less

Gay People More Financially Secure Despite Unique Barriers: Study
 
2014-03-22 07:40:40 AM

wildcardjack: You notice the rich gays because they flaunt, but the poor all look the same.


rainbowbutter: dnrfa, don't need too: the myth stems from a time (that is still the present in a depressing amount of places), when only financially secure people felt safe being open about their sexuality.  you work in a factory or a warehouse, you put up with a whole lot that would never pass in an office setting.  and you stfu, because you need the paycheck.  labor isn't respected, the worker isn't respected, and there isn't even a nod to equality in a lot of these settings.   it's disgusting, and it just doesn't seem to change.


Cut, print, that's a wrap.
 
2014-03-22 07:41:56 AM

ghare: atomicmask: The reality is that the world shouldn't revolve around gays, what they are doing, what they are making, or how they feel. Please stop trying to make every farking issue about homosexuals. 

Stop being drama whores, thanks.

Ahhh, good ol' Republican bigotry, out in the open where you can smell it. Smells like shiat, true..


Ahh good ol' liberal guilt, tilting at windmills for minorities instead of looking at the bigger picture and fighting battles against things that effect all of us.
 
2014-03-22 07:46:45 AM
Maybe it's cuz they spend all their money in gay bars and on kinky sex toys....
 
2014-03-22 07:48:23 AM

atomicmask: ghare: atomicmask: The reality is that the world shouldn't revolve around gays, what they are doing, what they are making, or how they feel. Please stop trying to make every farking issue about homosexuals. 

Stop being drama whores, thanks.

Ahhh, good ol' Republican bigotry, out in the open where you can smell it. Smells like shiat, true..

Ahh good ol' liberal guilt, tilting at windmills for minorities instead of looking at the bigger picture and fighting battles against things that effect all of us.


I almost fell for the troll, right up to here.
 
2014-03-22 07:50:52 AM
I know a gay couple who married about four years ago after being a faithful couple for thirty years. They are extremely compassionate toward the poor, the marginalized, the outsider. No surprise, really. They wanted to hold hands back when you could get your skull caved in for doing so. They live better than most couples because they have no children.

But my wife and I don't have kids either. Our friends who do often struggle with finances. I'm pretty sure it comes down to having children or not.
 
2014-03-22 07:52:41 AM

RedPhoenix122: atomicmask: ghare: atomicmask: The reality is that the world shouldn't revolve around gays, what they are doing, what they are making, or how they feel. Please stop trying to make every farking issue about homosexuals. 

Stop being drama whores, thanks.

Ahhh, good ol' Republican bigotry, out in the open where you can smell it. Smells like shiat, true..

Ahh good ol' liberal guilt, tilting at windmills for minorities instead of looking at the bigger picture and fighting battles against things that effect all of us.

I almost fell for the troll, right up to here.


OH YEAH MAN, ITS A TROLL BRO. Its not six in the morning after a long nights work or nothing, clearly I am farking with you.

Nah we need to focus on shiat that AFFECTS 2% of the population, we really, really need to completely engross ourselves in sorting out the queer agenda stuff before we fix economic problems, possible future war with russia, domestic spying, unreasonable taxes and failing local governments...make sure that we get the gay people all squared away..fark the rest of us right.
 
2014-03-22 07:55:23 AM
For fark's sake.

They definitely get more of the press, that's for sure.
 
2014-03-22 07:56:12 AM
It's no longer acceptable to discriminate against blacks, browns, Jews, or Muslims.  Once the bias against homosexuals ends I wonder what group will be the next target.  Seems like a good portion of society just needs someone to hate.
 
2014-03-22 07:59:32 AM

kidakita: Bull. Every gay person I know is right on par with the rest of society. Some are rich. Some are middle class. Some are poor. This is just divisive BS to keep us fighting with each other, instead of focusing on real problems and criminals.


America runs on divisiveness. There's always someone to hate while you're biatching about haters.
 
2014-03-22 08:00:21 AM
Hold on. ...who the fark thought "All gay people are rich!" in the first place (aside from people who suffer from profound cognitive impairments)?
 
2014-03-22 08:01:02 AM

atomicmask: RedPhoenix122: atomicmask: ghare: atomicmask: The reality is that the world shouldn't revolve around gays, what they are doing, what they are making, or how they feel. Please stop trying to make every farking issue about homosexuals. 

Stop being drama whores, thanks.

Ahhh, good ol' Republican bigotry, out in the open where you can smell it. Smells like shiat, true..

Ahh good ol' liberal guilt, tilting at windmills for minorities instead of looking at the bigger picture and fighting battles against things that effect all of us.

I almost fell for the troll, right up to here.

OH YEAH MAN, ITS A TROLL BRO. Its not six in the morning after a long nights work or nothing, clearly I am farking with you.

Nah we need to focus on shiat that AFFECTS 2% of the population, we really, really need to completely engross ourselves in sorting out the queer agenda stuff before we fix economic problems, possible future war with russia, domestic spying, unreasonable taxes and failing local governments...make sure that we get the gay people all squared away..fark the rest of us right.


You didn`t use an `a` instead of an `e` did you?

Oh, no. Now you are permanently labeled as a troll and everything you say is untrue!

In other news, people with no kids have a skewed demographic compared to those who do have kids.

It`s just sucking dicks and licking clits. Nothing to get worked up about whichever side you are on.

"But they are hellspawn!" No, they are just sucking dick and licking clit.

"But they are extra special wonderful people!" No, they are just sucking dick and licking clit.

Shouldn`t be bigged up or put down for it. It does not matter.
 
2014-03-22 08:02:30 AM
Gays are not rich, in my experience anyway.

The gays I know tend to live in roomate situation throughout adulthood.  Some are on state assistance.

My straight friends OTOH live in big houses, have RVs, giant pickup trucks, and boats at the lake.  And these people all have kids.  I'd say 75% of their homes have pools.

I know one gay with a really nice house with a pool.  His is the only pool among all the gays I know, and no gay I know owns any toy vehicles.  A few of us have nice cars, but these are daily drivers.

I think straight people get a better "launch" on their lives because they get to grow up as themselves from day one.  They then earn more money sooner than gays who in too many cases have to move out of homes at 18 on average, and pretty much THEN start growing up as themselves.  We end up making mistakes and learning lessons in our late 20's that most people learn in their late teens.  And this offset seems to propagate through a lifetime.  It never goes away.

Add to that a big part of the Baby Boomer / Gen X gays wiped out in the 1980's, leaving precious few examples and role models to the upcoming generations, slowing us down even more.  We have to re-discover the cultural knowledge that was lost with "the big kids".

Things are improving, the younger generation is coming up fast and strong and in numbers.  The average age of coming out now is 16, down from 26 for the previous generation, and high schools today are likely to have LGBT resources for kids.

But my generation was never "advantaged" in America, and never will be.

We're certainly not rich in financial terms.  We're lucky to be here at all.
 
2014-03-22 08:05:53 AM
poor gay people.
 
2014-03-22 08:08:31 AM

atomicmask: Nah we need to focus on shiat that AFFECTS 2% of the population, we really, really need to completely engross ourselves in sorting out the queer agenda stuff before we fix economic problems, possible future war with russia, domestic spying, unreasonable taxes and failing local governments...make sure that we get the gay people all squared away..fark the rest of us right


Actually the range is 2-10%
 
2014-03-22 08:13:13 AM

AngryDragon: atomicmask: Nah we need to focus on shiat that AFFECTS 2% of the population, we really, really need to completely engross ourselves in sorting out the queer agenda stuff before we fix economic problems, possible future war with russia, domestic spying, unreasonable taxes and failing local governments...make sure that we get the gay people all squared away..fark the rest of us right

Actually the range is 2-10%


Oh wow, that is clearly enough for us to drop farking everything and sort out every little trivial thing going on with them. 

I Have spoilers...we have no lack of poor strait people, so this is not a sexuality issue. This is a world wide economic issue. Harping on about how sooo many of the gays are poor is trivial and meaningless since a huge portion of the entire population is poor.
 
2014-03-22 08:13:30 AM
At $20 for head, of course gay men are poorer. You have to suck like 30 dicks a day just to get to lower middle class.
 
2014-03-22 08:15:44 AM

atomicmask: RedPhoenix122: atomicmask: ghare: atomicmask: The reality is that the world shouldn't revolve around gays, what they are doing, what they are making, or how they feel. Please stop trying to make every farking issue about homosexuals. 

Stop being drama whores, thanks.

Ahhh, good ol' Republican bigotry, out in the open where you can smell it. Smells like shiat, true..

Ahh good ol' liberal guilt, tilting at windmills for minorities instead of looking at the bigger picture and fighting battles against things that effect all of us.

I almost fell for the troll, right up to here.

OH YEAH MAN, ITS A TROLL BRO. Its not six in the morning after a long nights work or nothing, clearly I am farking with you.

Nah we need to focus on shiat that AFFECTS 2% of the population, we really, really need to completely engross ourselves in sorting out the queer agenda stuff before we fix economic problems, possible future war with russia, domestic spying, unreasonable taxes and failing local governments...make sure that we get the gay people all squared away..fark the rest of us right.


We can't have discussions about different things, apparently it really pisses this guy off. Lets just hold off on thinking or talking about anything until he gives the go-ahead, we wouldn't want baby to have another tantrum.
 
2014-03-22 08:20:48 AM

wyltoknow: atomicmask: RedPhoenix122: atomicmask: ghare: atomicmask: The reality is that the world shouldn't revolve around gays, what they are doing, what they are making, or how they feel. Please stop trying to make every farking issue about homosexuals. 

Stop being drama whores, thanks.

Ahhh, good ol' Republican bigotry, out in the open where you can smell it. Smells like shiat, true..

Ahh good ol' liberal guilt, tilting at windmills for minorities instead of looking at the bigger picture and fighting battles against things that effect all of us.

I almost fell for the troll, right up to here.

OH YEAH MAN, ITS A TROLL BRO. Its not six in the morning after a long nights work or nothing, clearly I am farking with you.

Nah we need to focus on shiat that AFFECTS 2% of the population, we really, really need to completely engross ourselves in sorting out the queer agenda stuff before we fix economic problems, possible future war with russia, domestic spying, unreasonable taxes and failing local governments...make sure that we get the gay people all squared away..fark the rest of us right.

We can't have discussions about different things, apparently it really pisses this guy off. Lets just hold off on thinking or talking about anything until he gives the go-ahead, we wouldn't want baby to have another tantrum.


First you should make sure that the gays are alright with whatever you are doing, do they have a hang nail? We better legislate some new laws about queers getting hang nails. Social justice requires the world come to a screeching halt if any non-cis individuals are uncomfortable in the slightest.
 
2014-03-22 08:25:20 AM

atomicmask: wyltoknow: atomicmask: RedPhoenix122: atomicmask: ghare: atomicmask: The reality is that the world shouldn't revolve around gays, what they are doing, what they are making, or how they feel. Please stop trying to make every farking issue about homosexuals. 

Stop being drama whores, thanks.

Ahhh, good ol' Republican bigotry, out in the open where you can smell it. Smells like shiat, true..

Ahh good ol' liberal guilt, tilting at windmills for minorities instead of looking at the bigger picture and fighting battles against things that effect all of us.

I almost fell for the troll, right up to here.

OH YEAH MAN, ITS A TROLL BRO. Its not six in the morning after a long nights work or nothing, clearly I am farking with you.

Nah we need to focus on shiat that AFFECTS 2% of the population, we really, really need to completely engross ourselves in sorting out the queer agenda stuff before we fix economic problems, possible future war with russia, domestic spying, unreasonable taxes and failing local governments...make sure that we get the gay people all squared away..fark the rest of us right.

We can't have discussions about different things, apparently it really pisses this guy off. Lets just hold off on thinking or talking about anything until he gives the go-ahead, we wouldn't want baby to have another tantrum.

First you should make sure that the gays are alright with whatever you are doing, do they have a hang nail? We better legislate some new laws about queers getting hang nails. Social justice requires the world come to a screeching halt if any non-cis individuals are uncomfortable in the slightest.


Welcome to my favorites, "Troll, terrified of his gay urges"
 
2014-03-22 08:26:21 AM

atomicmask: Oh wow, that is clearly enough for us to drop farking everything and sort out every little trivial thing going on with them.

I Have spoilers...we have no lack of poor strait people, so this is not a sexuality issue. This is a world wide economic issue. Harping on about how sooo many of the gays are poor is trivial and meaningless since a huge portion of the entire population is poor


Well, a couple things.

First, I was simply correcting your statistic.

Second, I agree with the fact that we have more generally impactful things to focus on that affect both homosexual as well as heterosexual citizens.  If we fix the economic issues in general, everyone benefits instead of focusing solely on a small group.  This also goes for all the other "panem et circenses" issues that the media throws out, in my opinion.

Third, I couldn't really just agree with you because you sound like an intolerant asshole.  So where my position is more of a lead with a general strategic approach that benefits everyone, yours seems more like "fark those guys"...

...well not literally in your case.
 
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