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(Opposing Views)   Man fined $75,000 per day for building something on his own property that he got a permit to build   (opposingviews.com) divider line 223
    More: Strange, EPA, Wyoming, ponds  
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21966 clicks; posted to Main » on 21 Mar 2014 at 5:12 PM (25 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



223 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2014-03-21 03:45:01 PM
The problem with trolling is you may catch something.
 
2014-03-21 03:57:32 PM
You had a permit, but not the right permit.
 
2014-03-21 04:02:22 PM
Outrage! This is an outrage, I tells ya!
 
2014-03-21 04:14:07 PM
Pick up that can, citizen.
 
2014-03-21 04:18:58 PM
You can't go around damming waterways, citizen.
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2014-03-21 04:29:31 PM
The EPA has delegated a lot of Clean Water Act permitting authority to the state of Wyoming. (epa.gov) That state permit is not just a worthless piece of paper when the feds come calling.
 
2014-03-21 04:29:56 PM
 
2014-03-21 04:43:02 PM

James!: You can't go around damming waterways, citizen.


please stick to the rivers and the lakes that you're used to
 
2014-03-21 04:44:33 PM
Trebuchet?

Please be a trebuchet.
 
2014-03-21 04:51:36 PM

violentsalvation: James!: You can't go around damming waterways, citizen.

please stick to the rivers and the lakes that you're used to


The EPA is not interested in your scrubs.
 
2014-03-21 04:53:16 PM
FTFA: "I am not going to roll over and let [the government] tell me what I can do on my land. I followed the rules."


Favorite line in the article. I am sympathetic the the guy and hope that this all resolves in his favor, but those two phrases, side by side, are very funny
 
2014-03-21 05:01:27 PM

edmo: The problem with trolling is you may catch something.


img27.imageshack.us
GOT ONE
 
2014-03-21 05:16:43 PM
My wife and I built the pond together. We put our blood, sweat and tears into it.

I'm not surprised the EPA got involved.
 
2014-03-21 05:17:33 PM
Horse trifecta in play.
 
2014-03-21 05:17:38 PM
Oh, the geriatric Facebook fight in the comments.
 
2014-03-21 05:19:29 PM

violentsalvation: James!: You can't go around damming waterways, citizen.

please stick to the rivers and the lakes that you're used to


I know that you're gonna have it your way or nothing at all,
 
2014-03-21 05:19:57 PM

DanZero: Non OV Link (from Fox News, not all that much better)


Even before I clicked, I was thinking "Man, I hope DanZero shows up". Thanks for taking the bullet for us every time. :)
 
2014-03-21 05:20:04 PM
Didn't some guy get his property taken by the EPA for clearing a deadfall that was blocking a ditch?

/ sounds like the guy did his due diligence; but, didn't pay off the EPA guy with beer and steak
 
2014-03-21 05:20:21 PM

macadamnut: My wife and I built the pond together. We put our blood, sweat and tears into it.

I'm not surprised the EPA got involved.


Putting water into it would have been a lot easier.
 
2014-03-21 05:22:31 PM
don't even think of messing with any existing waterway.  Chances are, the US cops of engineers has jurisdiction over it and they don't want any of your nonsense.

if you want a stock tank, fill it with tap water.  You'll save in the long run.
 
2014-03-21 05:22:33 PM
The government says he violated the Clean Water Act by building a dam on a creek without a permit from the Army Corps of Engineers.

Should have just hired some undocumented Canadian beavers to build it for him.
 
2014-03-21 05:23:08 PM
Somehow, I doubt this is just a pond that fills from rainfall on his land. If it's a waterway, you can't just dam it up and waste most of it through evaporation in order to give your horsies and duckies a drink, and afford your grandchildren an opportunity to drown. Wyoming averages only about 22 inches of rainfall a year; downstream water rights are a big farking deal. This might be just a bureaucratic SNAFU by the EPA, but it very well might not be, too.
 
2014-03-21 05:23:18 PM

Bondith


macadamnut: My wife and I built the pond together. We put our blood, sweat and tears into it.

I'm not surprised the EPA got involved.

Putting water into it would have been a lot easier.


I'm pretty sure

i3.kym-cdn.com
 
2014-03-21 05:24:28 PM

mbillips: Somehow, I doubt this is just a pond that fills from rainfall on his land. If it's a waterway, you can't just dam it up and waste most of it through evaporation in order to give your horsies and duckies a drink, and afford your grandchildren an opportunity to drown. Wyoming averages only about 22 inches of rainfall a year; downstream water rights are a big farking deal. This might be just a bureaucratic SNAFU by the EPA, but it very well might not be, too.


It's an oversized puddle. You're an idiot.
 
2014-03-21 05:24:32 PM

James!: violentsalvation: James!: You can't go around damming waterways, citizen.

please stick to the rivers and the lakes that you're used to

The EPA is not interested in your scrubs.


31.media.tumblr.com

/"Come on! You don't say 'Creep Creep' unless your quoting TLC."
 
2014-03-21 05:28:24 PM
I'm a big fan of government oversight, AND the environment, but jesus, who cares about a stupid pond in Wyoming?

Maybe go after the industrial waste that's polluting the Gawanus Canal first.
 
2014-03-21 05:28:39 PM

tricycleracer: The government says he violated the Clean Water Act by building a dam on a creek without a permit from the Army Corps of Engineers.

Should have just hired some undocumented Canadian beavers to build it for him.


www.benzworld.org

Yeah, I vote for that.
 
2014-03-21 05:30:07 PM

Hydra: mbillips: Somehow, I doubt this is just a pond that fills from rainfall on his land. If it's a waterway, you can't just dam it up and waste most of it through evaporation in order to give your horsies and duckies a drink, and afford your grandchildren an opportunity to drown. Wyoming averages only about 22 inches of rainfall a year; downstream water rights are a big farking deal. This might be just a bureaucratic SNAFU by the EPA, but it very well might not be, too.

It's an oversized puddle. You're an idiot.


From the Fox story:  The government says he violated the Clean Water Act by building a dam on a creek without a permit from the Army Corps of Engineers. Further, the EPA claims that material from his pond is being discharged into other waterways.

If you dam up a creek, you're taking water from people downstream, no matter how small the pond. That's no big deal where I live, where we get 45 inches of rain a year. It's a Big Farking Deal out west. People have been shot for a lot less.
 
2014-03-21 05:31:06 PM
While I feel for them...

FTA: "We put our blood, sweat and tears into it. It was our dream."

After this is all over, they really need to sit down with someone who can help him set better goals.
 
2014-03-21 05:31:11 PM
People saying you can't just damn up a waterway are not paying attention.  In fact, you can do so if you have a permit.  This guy got a permit.  He did everything he could possibly do to make a legitimate stock pond.

I suspect that most people have never been to Wyoming.  The idea that the Federal government has any interest in a duck pond in Wyoming is zero.  This guy is just caught in the middle of politics he has no control over.
 
2014-03-21 05:33:00 PM
I wonder who narc'ed on him?
 
2014-03-21 05:33:24 PM

Boloxor the Insipid: I suspect that most people have never been to Wyoming.


Truer words were never spoken. Because, really, why would you?

/Yeah, yeah, I know. Yellowstone. Been there, saw the geyser.
 
2014-03-21 05:36:14 PM
...he has an April 2012 letter form the Wyoming State Engineer's Office...

Letter != Permit

Permit:
www.nashville.gov

Letter:
www.christiansarkar.com
 
2014-03-21 05:38:29 PM
"on his sprawling eight-acre Wyoming farm"

Didn't know they had farms in Wyoming, let alone farms that sprawl as much as eight acres.
 
2014-03-21 05:38:46 PM
Damn. That's not a pond, that's a reservoir.
 
2014-03-21 05:39:58 PM

trippdogg: ...he has an April 2012 letter form the Wyoming State Engineer's Office...

Letter != Permit

Permit:
[www.nashville.gov image 364x364]

Letter:
[www.christiansarkar.com image 392x533]


Well apparently the letter says that his permit is in good standing, which would certainly imply that a permit was issued. Given that it was dated April 2012, though, it's possible something has changed in the meantime that has invalidated the original permit.
 
2014-03-21 05:41:02 PM

Boloxor the Insipid: People saying you can't just damn up a waterway are not paying attention.  In fact, you can do so if you have a permit.  This guy got a permit.  He did everything he could possibly do to make a legitimate stock pond.

I suspect that most people have never been to Wyoming.  The idea that the Federal government has any interest in a duck pond in Wyoming is zero.  This guy is just caught in the middle of politics he has no control over.


With no Corps permit and untreated water leaving his property he's probably screwed.
When you're dealing with existing water bodies and making changes to the watershed you need multiple permits.
He should have hired a civil engineer.
The he would at least have someone to blame
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2014-03-21 05:41:32 PM
trippdogg

According to the Fox News story, the letter referenced a permit.

I infer he wrote the state saying "the EPA is hassling me over a dam even though you guys gave me a permit to build my stock pond." State engineer wrote back saying "your permit authorizes a stock pond."
 
2014-03-21 05:41:38 PM

bangmaid: I'm a big fan of government oversight, AND the environment, but jesus, who cares about a stupid pond in Wyoming?

Maybe go after the industrial waste that's polluting the Gawanus Canal first.


/ya, they could do that, but most cooperations have scumbag lawyers that would tie up fines in litigation for years.  Much easier to pick on the little guy and squeeze the last dime out of him.
 
2014-03-21 05:42:02 PM

Boloxor the Insipid: People saying you can't just damn up a waterway are not paying attention.  In fact, you can do so if you have a permit.  This guy got a permit.  He did everything he could possibly do to make a legitimate stock pond.

I suspect that most people have never been to Wyoming.  The idea that the Federal government has any interest in a duck pond in Wyoming is zero.  This guy is just caught in the middle of politics he has no control over.


Right, but there may have been terms of the permit that he's now violating - say, keeping fertilizer concentrations in the pond runoff below a certain amount or whatever. Without knowing the nature of the specific complaints from the EPA or the exact nature of what's he was permitted to do, it's hard for me to choose one side or another right now.
 
2014-03-21 05:43:04 PM
The EPA found itself a golden pond.
 
2014-03-21 05:43:20 PM

Boloxor the Insipid: People saying you can't just damn up a waterway are not paying attention.  In fact, you can do so if you have a permit.  This guy got a permit.  He did everything he could possibly do to make a legitimate stock pond.


As James! said, he apparently didn't have the right permit:  the EPA claims that he needed to get one from the Army Corps of Engineers, and did not.  If so, I feel bad for the guy:  it's hard to navigate the bureaucracy.  But it doesn't give him a legal right.
 
2014-03-21 05:45:28 PM
I guess what's unclear here is whether the EPA is wrong for saying that he needed an ACE permit, or Wyoming State Engineer is wrong for saying that his permit was sufficient.
 
2014-03-21 05:45:41 PM

bentley57: Damn. That's not a pond, that's a reservoir.


That's not a moon!
 
2014-03-21 05:45:42 PM
Dude had a permit to build a stock pond. Damming a creek is a different matter altogether.
 
2014-03-21 05:45:49 PM

James!: You can't go around damming waterways, citizen.


That. Diverting a waterway used to be grounds for shooting someone in the old west.

I like how they buried it deep in the article too.
 
2014-03-21 05:46:07 PM
"This goes a lot further than a pond,"

No, no it doesn't. You're not a freedom fighter. This is a bureaucratic issue. Calm down.
 
2014-03-21 05:46:11 PM
More like "support for Gayson" Not that its wrong, just saying. And the administrators are right, this kid is getting his ass kicked. Nothing will incite bullies and trolls like a young boy wearing a "girls" backpack. I give him a week before someone rips that pack off him and beats him up. Not saying its right, but you know how terrible young kids are these days.
 
2014-03-21 05:47:50 PM
oops..wrong thread...can the mods move this to the "backpack" thread please...thanks.
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2014-03-21 05:49:01 PM
dstrick44

Apparently he is claiming an exemption from permit under CWA section 404(f)(1)(C). (epa.gov)

"the discharge of dredge or fill material ... for the purpose of construction or maintenance of farm or stock ponds or irrigation ditches, or the maintenance of drainage ditches ... is not prohibited by or otherwise subject to regulation".

If the exemption does not apply, he needed an ACE permit to build the water body. EPA says he has to prove to their satisfaction that his water body is within the exemption. He says EPA has to prove he is not subject to the exemption.
 
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