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(Oregon Live)   If you insist on taking your "service" dog into the grocery store, please make sure it doesn't poop in the aisles, attack any babies, or sniff the produce   (oregonlive.com) divider line 109
    More: Obvious, grocery stores, dogfights, service animal, dogs, baby  
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4106 clicks; posted to Main » on 21 Mar 2014 at 4:00 PM (17 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-03-21 02:36:18 PM
My SO was on a plane to California and was asked by the flight attendant if a person with a service animal could sit next to him. He agreed and a blind person with a guide pony sat down and the pony rested his head on my SO's feet. Kinda the cutest story I ever heard.

That said, the idea of service pets has gotten out of control I think. I wish I could take my dogs with me wherever I went (and I do frequent places more often if they do allow dogs, especially in the winter).  Unless mobility is an issue (like blindness, limb paralysis etc), I think it should be more defined and restricted.
 
2014-03-21 02:43:26 PM
A dog that would shiat in aisles, attack babies, or sniff anything is not a service dog. An actual service dog is rigorously trained to NOT do any of those things.

The one in the article just a regular dog that has a shiatty owner who thinks it's okay to game the disability system to have Fluffy wherever they go.
 
2014-03-21 02:45:48 PM
No.  Leave your farking dog at home unless you're going to be at a dog appropriate place - i.e. a dog park.  There is no reason to have your stupid little yappy dog tucked away in a stroller going through Nordstroms (yes, I did recently witness that).
 
2014-03-21 02:49:12 PM
The rules and regulations on service animals need to be reigned in.  I'm sorry, but if you can't go out in public without your depression bunny, then you just need to stay the fark home.
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2014-03-21 02:51:14 PM
If I was disabled I would have a service elephant.
 
2014-03-21 02:56:47 PM

twistedmetal: The rules and regulations on service animals need to be reigned in.  I'm sorry, but if you can't go out in public without your depression bunny, then you just need to stay the fark home.


Fark you.

hb0mb: There is no reason to have your stupid little yappy dog tucked away in a stroller going through Nordstroms (yes, I did recently witness that).


And fark you.

scottydoesntknow: A dog that would shiat in aisles, attack babies, or sniff anything is not a service dog. An actual service dog is rigorously trained to NOT do any of those things.


And fark you, too.

If I want to take my seeing-eye phoenix out with me, then you're just going to have to deal with a few little piles of phoenix poop. And if I decide to use my service centaur, and he pisses in your baby stroller (he's half-animal...what do you expect), well that's just something you're going to have to learn to accept.
 
2014-03-21 03:00:33 PM

Sin_City_Superhero: twistedmetal: The rules and regulations on service animals need to be reigned in.  I'm sorry, but if you can't go out in public without your depression bunny, then you just need to stay the fark home.

Fark you.

hb0mb: There is no reason to have your stupid little yappy dog tucked away in a stroller going through Nordstroms (yes, I did recently witness that).

And fark you.

scottydoesntknow: A dog that would shiat in aisles, attack babies, or sniff anything is not a service dog. An actual service dog is rigorously trained to NOT do any of those things.

And fark you, too.

If I want to take my seeing-eye phoenix out with me, then you're just going to have to deal with a few little piles of phoenix poop. And if I decide to use my service centaur, and he pisses in your baby stroller (he's half-animal...what do you expect), well that's just something you're going to have to learn to accept.


Whoa, whoa, whoa, we're not talking about mythological service animals here! That's a whole different category which I have no problem with.
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2014-03-21 03:10:34 PM
If two dogs fight, ban both owners from the store. Facial recognition should be cheap enough for a big store to scan all customers and alert on trespassers.
 
2014-03-21 03:12:49 PM

scottydoesntknow: Sin_City_Superhero: twistedmetal: The rules and regulations on service animals need to be reigned in.  I'm sorry, but if you can't go out in public without your depression bunny, then you just need to stay the fark home.

Fark you.

hb0mb: There is no reason to have your stupid little yappy dog tucked away in a stroller going through Nordstroms (yes, I did recently witness that).

And fark you.

scottydoesntknow: A dog that would shiat in aisles, attack babies, or sniff anything is not a service dog. An actual service dog is rigorously trained to NOT do any of those things.

And fark you, too.

If I want to take my seeing-eye phoenix out with me, then you're just going to have to deal with a few little piles of phoenix poop. And if I decide to use my service centaur, and he pisses in your baby stroller (he's half-animal...what do you expect), well that's just something you're going to have to learn to accept.

Whoa, whoa, whoa, we're not talking about mythological service animals here! That's a whole different category which I have no problem with.


You've obviously never had to clean satyr crap off your shoes.

MYTHOLOGICAL PETS SHOULD REMAIN IN MYTH!
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2014-03-21 03:14:39 PM
Sin_City_Superhero:

If I want to take my seeing-eye phoenix out with me, then you're just going to have to deal with a few little piles of phoenix poop. And if I decide to use my service centaur, and he pisses in your baby stroller (he's half-animal...what do you expect), well that's just something you're going to have to learn to accept.

Isn't Phoenix poop what charcoal briquettes are made of?
 
2014-03-21 03:24:54 PM

vpb: Sin_City_Superhero:

If I want to take my seeing-eye phoenix out with me, then you're just going to have to deal with a few little piles of phoenix poop. And if I decide to use my service centaur, and he pisses in your baby stroller (he's half-animal...what do you expect), well that's just something you're going to have to learn to accept.

Isn't Phoenix poop what charcoal briquettes are made of?


Kingsford charcoal is made from wood scraps from the Ford Motor plant. True story.
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2014-03-21 03:36:38 PM
twistedmetal

The laws were tightened up so an ADA "service animal" can only be a dog or a miniature horse.

Animals that make you feel good are not "service animals." Businesses in general do not have to let you and your comfort pterodactyl in. You may be able to sue to get it into public housing.

A friend describes her dog to stores as a "therapy dog." As far as I know that is not a legal category. Some poorly trained clerk may not know that. Sometimes it gets her and the dog in.
 
2014-03-21 03:48:01 PM
I agree the whole service animal thing needs to be much more tightly regulated. As it stands now, you can buy a nice little doggy vest and set of papers online, with absolutely no oversight. There needs to be a system in which you need a recommendation for a service animal from a qualified doctor for one of a set of rigidly defined medical conditions (i.e. blindness), for which service animals have been shown to have a significant positive impact on outcome. And there needs to be documentation that the animal in question has undergone professional training by certitified handlers to assist with your particular condition.
 
2014-03-21 03:49:51 PM

vpb: If I was disabled I would have a service elephant.


Service sharknado. Checkmate.
 
2014-03-21 03:57:05 PM
Huh. This actually hits pretty close to home for me. My family is close friends with another family with a service dog. She's extremely well trained, required and is invisible/quiet when working. There is no reaction to distractions, people wanting to pet her, etc. At home, she's a normal, goofy dog; in the vest, she's all business and discipline. (Golden retriever). There are far too many fakes and no, a little yippy bait dog isn't a service animal. The people that fake this need to be smacked.
 
2014-03-21 04:02:01 PM

twistedmetal: The rules and regulations on service animals need to be reigned in.  I'm sorry, but if you can't go out in public without your depression bunny, then you just need to stay the fark home.


Service bunnies would actually be pretty awesome, and far less likely to be running around (they'd have to be in a purse or held in the arms) because as prey animals they are very nervous, especially around animals that are much larger than themselves (i.e. humans).
 
2014-03-21 04:04:25 PM

scottydoesntknow: Sin_City_Superhero: twistedmetal: The rules and regulations on service animals need to be reigned in.  I'm sorry, but if you can't go out in public without your depression bunny, then you just need to stay the fark home.

Fark you.

hb0mb: There is no reason to have your stupid little yappy dog tucked away in a stroller going through Nordstroms (yes, I did recently witness that).

And fark you.

scottydoesntknow: A dog that would shiat in aisles, attack babies, or sniff anything is not a service dog. An actual service dog is rigorously trained to NOT do any of those things.

And fark you, too.

If I want to take my seeing-eye phoenix out with me, then you're just going to have to deal with a few little piles of phoenix poop. And if I decide to use my service centaur, and he pisses in your baby stroller (he's half-animal...what do you expect), well that's just something you're going to have to learn to accept.

Whoa, whoa, whoa, we're not talking about mythological service animals here! That's a whole different category which I have no problem with.


I have a theoretical issue with mythological creatures.
 
2014-03-21 04:09:53 PM
This has gotten out of hand.  I was in a store recently - dude had a service monkey.

Well, it is Florida ...
 
2014-03-21 04:20:32 PM

ZAZ: twistedmetal

The laws were tightened up so an ADA "service animal" can only be a dog or a miniature horse.

Animals that make you feel good are not "service animals." Businesses in general do not have to let you and your comfort pterodactyl in. You may be able to sue to get it into public housing.

A friend describes her dog to stores as a "therapy dog." As far as I know that is not a legal category. Some poorly trained clerk may not know that. Sometimes it gets her and the dog in.


Your friend is a jerkwad. That kind of thing just makes it harder for people with actual disabilities who legitimately need animals.
 
2014-03-21 04:21:54 PM
I am the biggest dog lover in the world, love all of them. What I don't love is when stupid humans take them places they don't need to go.   Every goddamn time I go to Lowe's I see several people in their with dogs.  Once saw a Newfie there, that had to be 200 lbs.  It is not safe for the dogs, or the people in the store.  People could trip over your dog while carrying a large object and both could get hurt.
 
2014-03-21 04:22:02 PM
I'm totally cool with real service animals but I'm tired of seeing dogs in Home Depot. The sign on the door clearly says no pets.
I witnessed a full-blown fight between two pretty good sized dogs in the plumbing aisle one day.
One of the owners got bit pretty bad trying to stop it. None of the store employees said a word or did anything.

(It's also pretty gross over at Petsmart with all the dogs whizzing on everything and everyone pretending not to notice but it's a pet store I get that.)
 
2014-03-21 04:23:05 PM
My farking cousin games the airlines with her not disability dog. She was proud of this fact. All she does is tell them she's a judge and feels discriminated against, and they let her. It's people like her that keep our veterans from having comfort animals on planes to control their PTSD. Fark her.
 
2014-03-21 04:25:20 PM
HIPAA makes it impossible to enforce sensible service animal regulations.
 
2014-03-21 04:26:46 PM
Don't service animals typically wear registration tags or licenses or something? The dogs I've seen usually have a large collar or harness clearly labeling them as service animals.

I'm guessing this abuse of companies' no-questions-asked policies isn't new, so there probably are procedures out there to prevent fraud. Stores that sell food can and do still get fined by the health department for allowing non-service animals inside.
 
2014-03-21 04:27:54 PM
I don't think I feel comfortable putting my feelings in until I see a picture of the dog.

*clicks link*

Oh HELL no. Fine that owner's ass now.
 
2014-03-21 04:30:03 PM

scottydoesntknow: A dog that would shiat in aisles, attack babies, or sniff anything is not a service dog. An actual service dog is rigorously trained to NOT do any of those things.

The one in the article just a regular dog that has a shiatty owner who thinks it's okay to game the disability system to have Fluffy wherever they go.


Came to say pretty much this.

I have nothing against actual service dogs being in stores. But if you're a part of this new trend of having "service" animals for emotional reasons, you don't need to bring your pet into the store.

Any cost for damages caused by a service animal (or emoti-pet), or lawsuits resulting from bites, should be 100% the responsibility of the owner.
 
2014-03-21 04:33:23 PM
I had a friend who was blind and had a service dog years ago.  He had a picture of him and the dog on the collar of the dog.  I don't see why having some sort of proof that the dog is a service dog is so hard.
 
2014-03-21 04:33:59 PM

cyberspacedout: Don't service animals typically wear registration tags or licenses or something? The dogs I've seen usually have a large collar or harness clearly labeling them as service animals.

I'm guessing this abuse of companies' no-questions-asked policies isn't new, so there probably are procedures out there to prevent fraud. Stores that sell food can and do still get fined by the health department for allowing non-service animals inside.


AFAIK it's illegal for anyone to ask you to prove that a service animals is necessary, so it's basically an honor system. There are excellent reasons for that but since the average person is a jerk it's pretty much guaranteed to be horribly abused.
 
2014-03-21 04:34:47 PM

siyuntz: I agree the whole service animal thing needs to be much more tightly regulated. As it stands now, you can buy a nice little doggy vest and set of papers online, with absolutely no oversight. There needs to be a system in which you need a recommendation for a service animal from a qualified doctor for one of a set of rigidly defined medical conditions (i.e. blindness), for which service animals have been shown to have a significant positive impact on outcome. And there needs to be documentation that the animal in question has undergone professional training by certitified handlers to assist with your particular condition.


The only real service dog I've ever met belonged to a former boss of mine, who was a groomer-turned-breeder that had retired to just training service dogs. Her Aussie had certifications out the wazoo and a photo ID, things that went wherever they did. Excellent animal, distracted by nothing and obedient as could be... or in other words AN ACTUAL SERVICE ANIMAL.

Try that "b-but it's a service animal" shiat with me and I'll want to see some ID. They'll have it if they aren't lying.
 
2014-03-21 04:35:22 PM
The law says it's illegal to make someone prove that their animal is a service animal. Too many laws were written without assholes in mind...
 
2014-03-21 04:36:31 PM
Might want to make sure service dog doesn't service any other service dogs.
 
2014-03-21 04:40:43 PM
As an owner of an autism service dog that DID poop in the mall and sniff the merchandise when we were in training with her, I'm getting a kick...

/A dog loving clerk was happy to clean it up.
//Hated training in the mall.
///Never take my son shopping.
 
2014-03-21 04:41:43 PM

Lets talk frankly about internal cleanliness: Try that "b-but it's a service animal" shiat with me and I'll want to see some ID. They'll have it if they aren't lying.


Then you would be in violation of the ADA

That's why the system needs to be revamped. The second you ask another question beyond "Is that a service dog?" and "What services does he perform?" you open you and your company up to liability.

ADA

§ 35.136 Service animals
(f) Inquiries. A public entity shall not ask about the nature or extent of a person's disability, but may make two inquiries to determine whether an animal qualifies as a service animal. A public entity may ask if the animal is required because of a disability and what work or task the animal has been trained to perform. A public entity shall not require documentation, such as proof that the animal has been certified, trained, or licensed as a service animal. Generally, a public entity may not make these inquiries about a service animal when it is readily apparent that an animal is trained to do work or perform tasks for an individual with a disability (e.g., the dog is observed guiding an individual who is blind or has low vision, pulling a person's wheelchair, or providing assistance with stability or balance to an individual with an observable mobility disability).
 
2014-03-21 04:44:52 PM

scottydoesntknow: Lets talk frankly about internal cleanliness: Try that "b-but it's a service animal" shiat with me and I'll want to see some ID. They'll have it if they aren't lying.

Then you would be in violation of the ADA

That's why the system needs to be revamped. The second you ask another question beyond "Is that a service dog?" and "What services does he perform?" you open you and your company up to liability.

ADA

§ 35.136 Service animals
(f) Inquiries. A public entity shall not ask about the nature or extent of a person's disability, but may make two inquiries to determine whether an animal qualifies as a service animal. A public entity may ask if the animal is required because of a disability and what work or task the animal has been trained to perform. A public entity shall not require documentation, such as proof that the animal has been certified, trained, or licensed as a service animal. Generally, a public entity may not make these inquiries about a service animal when it is readily apparent that an animal is trained to do work or perform tasks for an individual with a disability (e.g., the dog is observed guiding an individual who is blind or has low vision, pulling a person's wheelchair, or providing assistance with stability or balance to an individual with an observable mobility disability).


Well then, it's a good thing I'm a private business and reserve the right to refuse service to anyone at anytime. Which I'm perfectly happy to do until you show me some docs or get that animal the hell out of my store.
 
2014-03-21 04:46:10 PM
My service dog notifies me of an oncoming seizure by attacking the nearest baby.  It was surprisingly easy to train.  The real biatch is keeping it supplied with babies.
 
2014-03-21 04:48:18 PM

Lets talk frankly about internal cleanliness: Well then, it's a good thing I'm a private business and reserve the right to refuse service to anyone at anytime. Which I'm perfectly happy to do until you show me some docs or get that animal the hell out of my store


Actually you really don't get to question the serviceability of a service dog under the ADA.
 
2014-03-21 04:48:52 PM
Two questions anybody can ask someone with a service dog:
Is the dog a service animal required because of a disability?
What work or task has the dog been trained to perform?
A lot of fakers may answer 'yes' to the first question but can not satisfactory answer the second question.

However: "A person with a disability cannot be asked to remove his service animal from the premises unless: (1) the dog is out of control and the handler does not take effective action to control it or (2) the dog is not housebroken."
So crapping in the aisles is never acceptable, neither is aggression. The legal department mentioned in the article clearly doesn't know the law.

Can you imagine aggressive behavior like mentioned in the article from a pet dog faking public access rights with a vest or ID bought online towards a real service animal? It is a problem, service animals get attacked and may be hurt/killed/retired from work.
 
2014-03-21 04:50:10 PM

Lets talk frankly about internal cleanliness: scottydoesntknow: Lets talk frankly about internal cleanliness: Try that "b-but it's a service animal" shiat with me and I'll want to see some ID. They'll have it if they aren't lying.

Then you would be in violation of the ADA

That's why the system needs to be revamped. The second you ask another question beyond "Is that a service dog?" and "What services does he perform?" you open you and your company up to liability.

ADA

§ 35.136 Service animals
(f) Inquiries. A public entity shall not ask about the nature or extent of a person's disability, but may make two inquiries to determine whether an animal qualifies as a service animal. A public entity may ask if the animal is required because of a disability and what work or task the animal has been trained to perform. A public entity shall not require documentation, such as proof that the animal has been certified, trained, or licensed as a service animal. Generally, a public entity may not make these inquiries about a service animal when it is readily apparent that an animal is trained to do work or perform tasks for an individual with a disability (e.g., the dog is observed guiding an individual who is blind or has low vision, pulling a person's wheelchair, or providing assistance with stability or balance to an individual with an observable mobility disability).

Well then, it's a good thing I'm a private business and reserve the right to refuse service to anyone at anytime. Which I'm perfectly happy to do until you show me some docs or get that animal the hell out of my store.


Except you aren't, and you can't.

But if you don't want to listen to my warning, go ahead and try. Being a private business does not mean you get to ignore the ADA.
 
2014-03-21 04:51:34 PM

stpauler: My SO was on a plane to California and was asked by the flight attendant if a person with a service animal could sit next to him. He agreed and a blind person with a guide pony sat down and the pony rested his head on my SO's feet. Kinda the cutest story I ever heard.

That said, the idea of service pets has gotten out of control I think. I wish I could take my dogs with me wherever I went (and I do frequent places more often if they do allow dogs, especially in the winter).  Unless mobility is an issue (like blindness, limb paralysis etc), I think it should be more defined and restricted.


Knew a guy who had a Red Heeler. She was definitely the smarter of the pair. We called her his thinking brain dog.
 
2014-03-21 05:06:21 PM
I saw someone carrying a rat in the grocery store a few years ago.  Not a ferret.  It was an actual rat.  I asked someone who worked there if that was allowed, and he said they can't stop people from bringing any animal in because it could be a "service animal."
 
2014-03-21 05:07:38 PM

Sin_City_Superhero: twistedmetal: The rules and regulations on service animals need to be reigned in.  I'm sorry, but if you can't go out in public without your depression bunny, then you just need to stay the fark home.

Fark you.

hb0mb: There is no reason to have your stupid little yappy dog tucked away in a stroller going through Nordstroms (yes, I did recently witness that).

And fark you.

scottydoesntknow: A dog that would shiat in aisles, attack babies, or sniff anything is not a service dog. An actual service dog is rigorously trained to NOT do any of those things.

And fark you, too.

If I want to take my seeing-eye phoenix out with me, then you're just going to have to deal with a few little piles of phoenix poop. And if I decide to use my service centaur, and he pisses in your baby stroller (he's half-animal...what do you expect), well that's just something you're going to have to learn to accept.


As far as I'm concerned, if my monitor lizard is unwelcome in your establishment, then so is my money.
 
2014-03-21 05:07:56 PM

Lets talk frankly about internal cleanliness: Well then, it's a good thing I'm a private business and reserve the right to refuse service to anyone at anytime.


Does your private business serve the public?
 
2014-03-21 05:18:06 PM

vpb: Sin_City_Superhero:

If I want to take my seeing-eye phoenix out with me, then you're just going to have to deal with a few little piles of phoenix poop. And if I decide to use my service centaur, and he pisses in your baby stroller (he's half-animal...what do you expect), well that's just something you're going to have to learn to accept.

Isn't Phoenix poop what charcoal briquettes are made of?


But they generate a dry heat.
 
2014-03-21 05:29:26 PM
I have a disabled parking placard (I need a cane to walk properly) and I have to carry an ID card that matches the permit ID that must carried any time I am using the permit. I think it's reasonable to require service animals to have a card and registration. I get that the law was designed to keep someone from 'harassing' someone with a service dog by saying "Oh can I see the ID?" fifty times in a row, but how about a vest with the ID... and an ID NUMBER on the side. Then if you suspect someone is bullshiatting you snap a picture and send it in. If the ID on the vest doesn't match the dog, it's a felony (not a new law. It's actually a felony to abuse that program)
 
2014-03-21 05:32:04 PM

Janusdog: My farking cousin games the airlines with her not disability dog. She was proud of this fact. All she does is tell them she's a judge and feels discriminated against, and they let her. It's people like her that keep our veterans from having comfort animals on planes to control their PTSD. Fark her.


It's actually a felony to claim a dog is a disability dog when it is not. Report her ass to the FBI. Next time she goes flying, she'll be on a special list that gets pulled aside and her paperwork actually checked.
 
2014-03-21 05:38:25 PM
I ran into this at Lowe's. Some fat coont on a scooter brought her poor dog in with a red vest on and he was very agitated, clearly not a disability dog. She lost her sad little shiat when I said something...sigh. The folks that game the system.
 
2014-03-21 05:42:48 PM
Service animals should be regarded as an extension of the owner.  Thus, if your service dog takes a dump in the middle of a store, it should be viewed the same as you taking a dump there and the store should be well within its rights to say, "sorry, we don't want you to come back."
 
2014-03-21 05:52:44 PM
HB0MB
No.  Leave your farking dog at home unless you're going to be at a dog appropriate place - i.e. a dog park.  There is no reason to have your stupid little yappy dog tucked away in a stroller going through Nordstroms (yes, I did recently witness that).

 This! It also matters to the poor people who have allergies: There is no such thing as a non-allergenic dog, either. The majority of allergies are to the dander on the skin, not the hair. When you bring your oopie-shoopy into the supermarket because you need them as a replacement for human contact the dander explodes around you all over the veggies or fruit or wherever you are. Pure selfishness. That's why there are laws against bringing your furry into restaurants and markets. With the proliferation of people claiming their animals are "therapy" or "comfort" animals and buying themselves a marker rag for them to wear on E-bay it has become a real problem. BTW - in California the requirement to let an animal in your business is for "SERVICE" animals only, that provide an actual service activity to someone who needs it, and does not include comfort or therapy dogs.
 
2014-03-21 05:52:52 PM

vpb: If I was disabled I would have a service elephant.


i would have about a dozen service lemurs.
 
2014-03-21 06:17:23 PM

OgreMagi: HIPAA makes it impossible to enforce sensible service animal regulations.


Yep.  Maybe if our society didn't have such a bad habit of shiatting all over disabled people HIPAA and the ADA wouldn't have such a nice sharp set of choppers.
 
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