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(Think Progress)   Those scamps at Duke Energy have been caught -for the 8th time in a month- intentionally dumping toxic waste into a North Carolina river. In response NC Gov and former Duke executive Pat McCrory expected to sigh, wag his finger, and say "oh YOU"   (thinkprogress.org) divider line 101
    More: Sad, Pat McCrory, Duke Energy, North Carolina, toxic wastes, toxic metal, rivers  
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5559 clicks; posted to Main » on 21 Mar 2014 at 4:09 PM (22 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-03-21 04:38:06 PM

Mikey1969: The plant's Clean Water Act permit only authorizes discharges when the pond level overtops the vertical discharge pipe visible in the photo, in order to reduce discharges of toxic solids in the effluent.

I'm curious, does anyone know which part is "visible in the photo"? I see the line from what looks to be the pump. and then something yellow and vertical on the bank, behind the truck, but that's higher than the banks, so that pond would flood well before the water levels topped it, so I'm just wondering where the level actually is.

Also, why aren't these companies just leaching out the metals in those ponds and then recovering them to sell? Seems like they could make money off of it and not get into so much trouble.


You can bet that if it was significantly profitable to do so, they would. There are going to be a lot of costs associated with setting up and running such an operation though.
 
2014-03-21 04:41:19 PM

OldManDownDRoad: someonelse:

It's a shame that there are no links from hard news sources in the article. A link to the "notice of violation" document from the NC DNR would have been nice.

News and Observer of Raleigh.

They generally have a story a day, and most stories have links and sidebars to the documents and such.

Altho they do have a hard-on for Republicans rivaled only by the NYT. At least they no longer compare conservatives to Neo-Nazis as they regularly did when Keung Hui was covering the Wake County School Board.


That's because reporting on the facts tends to have a well known liberal bias.

Not surprisingly the NYT also has very good reporting.
 
2014-03-21 04:42:24 PM
Tell me again how regulations are strangling big business while I get you a nice glass of water.
 
2014-03-21 04:44:17 PM

The Southern Logic Company: The metals in the water are measured in ppm (parts per million)


So? Salinity is measure in PPM but that doesn't preclude water from being too salty to drink.

It might be uneconomical, but it's not uneconomical just because of the unit of measure.

Just how many millions of water molecules do you think are in a pond? A couple?
 
2014-03-21 04:44:39 PM
i1.kym-cdn.com
 
2014-03-21 04:48:25 PM

Weaver95: And you know what? Nothing will change. I honestly don't know why we even bother with environmental protection laws anymore...companies ignore the rules, and even if they get caught, they just pay the fines and keep right on dumping iwaste illegally. They can literally poison people and get away with it. Someone gets sick as a result of their dumping, they have the lawyers and legal staff to deal with anything that comes up. Cops protect them. They've got a pr staff to handle any negative press backlash and legislators are on the payroll.


And it's not like they're likely also deducting the meager fines they are assessed.
 
2014-03-21 04:49:02 PM
Law are for people, poor people.
 
2014-03-21 04:49:09 PM
there is an amusing use of drones fitted with cameras: fly them over stuff like this.
 
2014-03-21 04:52:04 PM
If the market were so outraged, it would have done something about it. Boycotts? Nope. Lawsuits? Nope. Can't be too upset if Duke isn't facing any economic repercussions. See, this is what a free market looks like. If only this could be a model for the rest of our great nation, we'd see a real economic rebound.
 
2014-03-21 04:54:28 PM

GBB: The easiest fix would be to change the environmental laws.


They've already done that at the state level. And bought up adjoining property to allow seepage to worsen rather than just cleaning it up even though cleaning it up is LESS expensive to do so.

Guess there's no other choice now. We need to dismantle the EPA.
 
2014-03-21 04:55:20 PM

rzrwiresunrise: If the market were so outraged, it would have done something about it. Boycotts? Nope. Lawsuits? Nope. Can't be too upset if Duke isn't facing any economic repercussions. See, this is what a free market looks like. If only this could be a model for the rest of our great nation, we'd see a real economic rebound.


How do you Boycott a utility monopoly, anyways?  I do I re-rig the entire electric grid so I can get power from someone else?
 
2014-03-21 05:04:18 PM
Maybe when that shiat starts seeping across state lines something will get done.
 
2014-03-21 05:10:54 PM

cdn.static.ovimg.com

What a Duketastrophie!

 
2014-03-21 05:11:27 PM

Old enough to know better: Maybe when that shiat starts seeping across state lines something will get done.


What?  Tennessee?  South Carolina?  Part of the best thing about being North Carolina is that we surrounded ourselves with the worst states so we can always look better by comparison.
 
2014-03-21 05:11:56 PM
This is what the voters of North Carolina want. *shrug*
 
2014-03-21 05:12:13 PM

Weaver95: And you know what? Nothing will change. I honestly don't know why we even bother with environmental protection laws anymore...companies ignore the rules, and even if they get caught, they just pay the fines and keep right on dumping iwaste illegally. They can literally poison people and get away with it. Someone gets sick as a result of their dumping, they have the lawyers and legal staff to deal with anything that comes up. Cops protect them. They've got a pr staff to handle any negative press backlash and legislators are on the payroll.


Its called the market deciding. Get over it.
 
2014-03-21 05:14:55 PM

bdub77: And the shareholders should have to pay for this, not the people buying utilities from them. You want a monopoly, you eat your own sh*t when it goes wrong. I would go as far as to say that the people running these companies should be forced to drink water pumped out of the same rivers and streams they operate near.


Our stock is down 2% since all of this noise started. How much do you want us to suffer?
OK, I'm kidding. That was just a joke. You buy DUK for the dividend. The price goes up or down a few bucks, it doesn't mean anything. As long as the customers pay for the cleanup and they don't cut the dividend, it's all good.
But, now that you bring it up, if you communists want to make yourselves useful, can you make a bit more noise? If you can get that sucker to drop 50%, like that thing you did with BP, it would be awesome. Everybody loves a sale.
 
2014-03-21 05:22:25 PM

Weaver95: And you know what? Nothing will change. I honestly don't know why we even bother with environmental protection laws anymore...companies ignore the rules, and even if they get caught, they just pay the fines and keep right on dumping iwaste illegally. They can literally poison people and get away with it. Someone gets sick as a result of their dumping, they have the lawyers and legal staff to deal with anything that comes up. Cops protect them. They've got a pr staff to handle any negative press backlash and legislators are on the payroll.


Sounds like its time we start a monkey wrench gang.
 
2014-03-21 05:29:43 PM
There might be more in the way of proactive action taking place to prevent these "accidents" if other actions precipitated it. Not wishing violence or harm on anyone, but say people get injured in car accidents and such, entire families, and sometimes pieces of families "go missing". Not to wish harm on anyone, that's all I'm stating. No hate at all. You can minimize your exposure to "accidents", but the risk remains. Nothing but good thoughts.tvsnark.files.wordpress.com
 
2014-03-21 05:39:01 PM

HotWingConspiracy: This is what the voters of North Carolina want. *shrug*


They knew what they were getting into when the bought their tickets.
 
2014-03-21 05:57:50 PM

ikanreed: Nexzus: Don't know the specifics, but yeah, if the cost to act within the law costs more than the fine you'd get breaking it, what's the farking point of the law?

The only reason they're getting off that cheap is that our governor literally
1.  Layed off huge swaths of the NC environmental agency
2.  Replaced almost everyone remaining in middle management and above with political appointees.
3.  Redicated a lot of labor from oversight to approving new fracking well applications(even though that's not what the people in question's skills were)
4.  Personally interceded telling them to let Duke continue running a profit.

I mean, we're talking giant shiat-stain level single person problem.  Not minor "oops, we didn't think that law through" but, "actively putting his apparent financial interests above the safety of people in the state"


And people wonder where S. King gets the inspiration for characters like the Second Selectman in Under The Dome.
 
2014-03-21 05:58:19 PM

Weaver95: And you know what? Nothing will change. I honestly don't know why we even bother with environmental protection laws anymore...companies ignore the rules, and even if they get caught, they just pay the fines and keep right on dumping iwaste illegally. They can literally poison people and get away with it. Someone gets sick as a result of their dumping, they have the lawyers and legal staff to deal with anything that comes up. Cops protect them. They've got a pr staff to handle any negative press backlash and legislators are on the payroll.


Then they go after somebody who makes a pond in their backyard.
 
2014-03-21 06:05:56 PM
Having been a cop before, i have to say the encounter with the officer in the film was total bullshiat. They had broken no laws, it was a public (state) owned waterway, and the cop had 0 reason, 0...to stop them, let alone ask them for ID, and threatening them with calling the conservation police was total crap. They should have told him to go fark himself, and the men he came in with, and laughed while he stood there with nothing to charge him with. This was an obviously controlled officer who was told to scare them off by his superiors. Way to scare off the people who can expose the company's abuse of the environment by using the local police. Thats some fine honorable police work there lou. Someone..is getting paid. I would have loved to be in that boat. Man, the ensuing lawsuits would have made me a millionaire.
 
2014-03-21 06:06:47 PM
Remember, though, regulations on corporations are burdensome, and we can always trust companies to do the right thing, because what idiot would poison their own customers?
 
2014-03-21 06:08:51 PM
Sounds like the acts of terrorists.
 
2014-03-21 06:30:55 PM
We need to nationalize the utility companies.
 
2014-03-21 06:39:43 PM
Just 2 more dumpings this month without consequences and Mortimer owes Randolf one dollar.
 
2014-03-21 06:47:20 PM
*Sigh* Clearly none of you un educated cretins understand what goes in to toxic coal ash. If you understood the deep complexities of toxic coal ash then you would realize it's just as safe to drink as pure mountain spring water filtered through eagles, jesus, guns, an everything else thats great about America.
 
2014-03-21 06:52:24 PM

Weaver95: And you know what? Nothing will change. I honestly don't know why we even bother with environmental protection laws anymore...companies ignore the rules, and even if they get caught, they just pay the fines and keep right on dumping iwaste illegally. They can literally poison people and get away with it. Someone gets sick as a result of their dumping, they have the lawyers and legal staff to deal with anything that comes up. Cops protect them. They've got a pr staff to handle any negative press backlash and legislators are on the payroll.


Hm. I hadn't thought of that.

It's not the costs of complying with regulations which are the problem -- it's the costs of bribing people so you don't suffer from breaking the regulations that costs jobs. Hm.
 
2014-03-21 07:11:01 PM

HotWingConspiracy: This is what the voters of North Carolina want. *shrug*


Sadly, yes. True believers expect to be raptured up at any moment and, once all the sinners are in Satan's BBQ, Jesus will create a new Earth just for them. So why worry about the environment? This sort of thing just reinforces the belief that the end times are near while allowing evangelical Christians (like Gov. McCrory) to abdicate personal responsibility.
 
2014-03-21 07:41:13 PM
Round these parts we have OPPD, a public power district.  That's right, the power is owned by the public.  It's pret... wait a tick.  The public... owns the...power...  Holy Fark!  That's socialisms!  Nebraskans are practicing socialisms right in the heart of the country!!!
 
2014-03-21 07:55:33 PM
imageshack.com
 
2014-03-21 08:19:01 PM
The US Government is just another subsidiary of the stock market.
 
2014-03-21 08:42:12 PM
Good thing we are saving the environment by fining $7500/day that guy who built a pond on his land with permit approval. It's a few threads over.

just read that and you will feel much safer about our environment, and if you still don't approve of Duke's practices you're just a libby commie slacker with no job even though you have one.
 
2014-03-21 08:45:20 PM
fark Duke!

If I could afford to disconnect my house from their grid I'd have done it yesterday.

There is a revolving door between energy utilities and the governmental agencies and committees that regulate them.  Here in Indiana they've been fleecing ratepayers by passing construction costs to their customers.  They couldn't build what they said they could for the amount they said they could so they've repeatedly gotten the Indiana Utility Regulatory Commission to allow these costs to hit the ratepayer.  Worse yet, this state doesn't need the plant they are building so almost all of its power will be sold to their out of state customers.  Nothing like profit with almost no investment!  (Duke also got caught illegally communicating with members of the regulatory commission and multiple members have worked for Duke and now regulate them)
 
2014-03-21 08:49:23 PM

Bit'O'Gristle: Having been a cop before,


Stopped reading jpg.
 
2014-03-21 09:01:42 PM

Weaver95: And you know what? Nothing will change. I honestly don't know why we even bother with environmental protection laws anymore...companies ignore the rules, and even if they get caught, they just pay the fines and keep right on dumping iwaste illegally. They can literally poison people and get away with it. Someone gets sick as a result of their dumping, they have the lawyers and legal staff to deal with anything that comes up. Cops protect them. They've got a pr staff to handle any negative press backlash and legislators are on the payroll.


this is where fark needs the "sad but true" tag.   'funny' certainly doesn't apply.  (smart does)
 
2014-03-21 09:05:22 PM
Perhaps a little jail time might help. Not for the shucks doing the work, but the CEO and Bored of Directors.
 
2014-03-21 10:53:59 PM

groppet: Well for every gallon they dump they have to drink a glass of the shiat they dump it into. The only way this shiat wil change is if they or their familes get sick from it.

I'm sure after the 9th time they will get a stearnly written letter.


Sahara.
/obscure?
 
2014-03-21 10:54:22 PM
TBH, this sounds like they've been doing it all along and only this month people started looking. They obviously don't have a plan in place for proper disposal because after getting caught once they'd have fixed the other ones at least temporarily.

Seriously, there are probably felony charges that should be filed here, and the execs should be headed to jail for a long time... But somehow I doubt anything of the sort will happen. In modern America being rich is a get out of jail card. Especially if you are head of a company or bank.
 
2014-03-21 11:00:54 PM

Elegy: The Southern Logic Company: The metals in the water are measured in ppm (parts per million)

So? Salinity is measure in PPM but that doesn't preclude water from being too salty to drink.

It might be uneconomical, but it's not uneconomical just because of the unit of measure.

Just how many millions of water molecules do you think are in a pond? A couple?


You dont really see problem with your logic do you? Firstly desalination plants get rid of the metals to keep the larger supply of water, not the salt and other metals... Secondly they use that unit of measure because the quantities are so low, if it was 50% they would not use 500000 ppm, because that would be ridiculous, anything more quantifiable would be done as a percentage, and even sometimes they will use .0001%, just not in this case. With that in mind logic can suggest that since it is measured in ppm, and not a % it is more than likely an indicator that it is unfeasible economically.
 
2014-03-21 11:20:24 PM

bdub77: And the shareholders should have to pay for this, not the people buying utilities from them.


Dissolve the corporation, revoke its business license, ban the key executives from ever again doing business in the state, de-privatize the company.

There's a farking penalty.
 
2014-03-21 11:57:09 PM

tekmo: bdub77: And the shareholders should have to pay for this, not the people buying utilities from them.

Dissolve the corporation, revoke its business license, ban the key executives from ever again doing business in the state, de-privatize the company.

There's a farking penalty.


The problem with that is the workers get screwed and that can have some serious impacts as well.

I think the proper solution is dilute the stock.  Force them to issue 10% more shares at $.00 and hand them over to the state and force the state to immediately sell the shares.  The result is every share holder takes a hit but the business keeps going.  It is a power incentive to not buy shares of companies that operate illegally.
 
2014-03-22 12:02:40 AM

foo monkey: If the waste water is blue, it can't be that bad, right?


If it's brown, drink it down. If it's black send it black.
 
2014-03-22 12:31:11 AM

foo monkey: If the waste water is blue, it can't be that bad, right?


These are not refreshment stands:

img.fark.net
 
2014-03-22 03:19:42 AM

ikanreed: rzrwiresunrise: If the market were so outraged, it would have done something about it. Boycotts? Nope. Lawsuits? Nope. Can't be too upset if Duke isn't facing any economic repercussions. See, this is what a free market looks like. If only this could be a model for the rest of our great nation, we'd see a real economic rebound.

How do you Boycott a utility monopoly, anyways?  I do I re-rig the entire electric grid so I can get power from someone else?


That's how job creators think! See? Your taking your first steps toward realizing the free market dream!
 
2014-03-22 09:32:54 AM

foo monkey: If the waste water is blue, it can't be that bad, right?


Exactly, it's so clean I can see the reflection of that rainbow on the water's surface.  Funny I can't spot the rainbow in the sky though...
 
2014-03-22 12:30:38 PM

thaylin: You dont really see problem with your logic do you? Firstly desalination plants get rid of the metals to keep the larger supply of water, not the salt and other metals... Secondly they use that unit of measure because the quantities are so low, if it was 50% they would not use 500000 ppm, because that would be ridiculous, anything more quantifiable would be done as a percentage, and even sometimes they will use .0001%, just not in this case. With that in mind logic can suggest that since it is measured in ppm, and not a % it is more than likely an indicator that it is unfeasible economically.


Units of measure have nothing do with whether extraction is economical or uneconomical.

This is not a controversial statement. It is simple fact. Only an idiot would think otherwise.
 
2014-03-22 12:49:37 PM

Elegy: thaylin: You dont really see problem with your logic do you? Firstly desalination plants get rid of the metals to keep the larger supply of water, not the salt and other metals... Secondly they use that unit of measure because the quantities are so low, if it was 50% they would not use 500000 ppm, because that would be ridiculous, anything more quantifiable would be done as a percentage, and even sometimes they will use .0001%, just not in this case. With that in mind logic can suggest that since it is measured in ppm, and not a % it is more than likely an indicator that it is unfeasible economically.

Units of measure have nothing do with whether extraction is economical or uneconomical.

This is not a controversial statement. It is simple fact. Only an idiot would think otherwise.


Wow, 2 fallacies in 1, yet did not counter with any facts what I said..
 
2014-03-22 01:33:03 PM

thaylin: Wow, 2 fallacies in 1, yet did not counter with any facts what I said..


(Rolls eyes)

Water is considered "saline" at around 3,000 ppm or 0.3%.

Low grade uranium is around 1,000 ppm, and even the very low grade ores in Namibia of 100 ppm are considered economically viable to extract.

Gold extraction from an open pit mine is considered economically viable at 1-2 PPM.

I will say this again, very slowly and clearly so you can understand it.

The. Unit. Of. Measure. Has. Nothing. To. Do. With. The. Economic. Viability. Of. Extraction.

You are an idiot.
 
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