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(Medium)   The fluid dynamics of beer tapping finally explained by dedicated team of drunk physicists (with video)   (medium.com) divider line 20
    More: Cool, physics, physicists  
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1440 clicks; posted to Geek » on 21 Mar 2014 at 2:24 PM (31 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-03-21 02:19:22 PM  
The data reveals that the foaming-over process can be divided into three stages. In the first stage, the impact with the bottle sends a train of expansion-compression waves through the liquid. This causes the tiny bubbles that already exist in the fluid to fragment into many smaller bubbles.

In the second stage, the sudden increase in the number of bubbles rapidly increases their surface area. And this dramatically increases the rate at which carbon dioxide can enter them, causing them to grow.


There's no air in beer, or else the beer would taste really oxidized. The only gas in beer is carbon dioxide, or in the cases of nitrogenated beers, a mixture of carbon dioxide and nitrogen.

"Carbon dioxide entering the bubbles" don't make no sense, if the bubbles already ARE carbon dioxide.
 
2014-03-21 02:38:40 PM  

Lando Lincoln: The data reveals that the foaming-over process can be divided into three stages. In the first stage, the impact with the bottle sends a train of expansion-compression waves through the liquid. This causes the tiny bubbles that already exist in the fluid to fragment into many smaller bubbles.

In the second stage, the sudden increase in the number of bubbles rapidly increases their surface area. And this dramatically increases the rate at which carbon dioxide can enter them, causing them to grow.

There's no air in beer, or else the beer would taste really oxidized. The only gas in beer is carbon dioxide, or in the cases of nitrogenated beers, a mixture of carbon dioxide and nitrogen.

"Carbon dioxide entering the bubbles" don't make no sense, if the bubbles already ARE carbon dioxide.


I read the article as saying that the air bubbles were CO2and that the impact creates more bubbles and frees up more CO2to go from the liquid to the bubble. I agree there's not going to be too much of any other gasses other than CO2in the beer, I didn't see a reference to air being in the beer in the article.
 
2014-03-21 02:58:31 PM  
I was hoping for a video of a bunch of drunk physicists berating a bartender for giving them too much foam.
 
2014-03-21 02:59:33 PM  

Communist_Manifesto: Lando Lincoln: The data reveals that the foaming-over process can be divided into three stages. In the first stage, the impact with the bottle sends a train of expansion-compression waves through the liquid. This causes the tiny bubbles that already exist in the fluid to fragment into many smaller bubbles.

In the second stage, the sudden increase in the number of bubbles rapidly increases their surface area. And this dramatically increases the rate at which carbon dioxide can enter them, causing them to grow.

There's no air in beer, or else the beer would taste really oxidized. The only gas in beer is carbon dioxide, or in the cases of nitrogenated beers, a mixture of carbon dioxide and nitrogen.

"Carbon dioxide entering the bubbles" don't make no sense, if the bubbles already ARE carbon dioxide.

I read the article as saying that the air bubbles were CO2and that the impact creates more bubbles and frees up more CO2to go from the liquid to the bubble. I agree there's not going to be too much of any other gasses other than CO2in the beer, I didn't see a reference to air being in the beer in the article.


It's confusing. The sudden shock wave causes CO2 to fall out of solution to form bubbles of CO2, and the extra surface area of the CO2 bubbles causes more CO2 to fall out of solution? Is that what they're saying?
 
2014-03-21 03:19:09 PM  

Lando Lincoln: Communist_Manifesto: Lando Lincoln: The data reveals that the foaming-over process can be divided into three stages. In the first stage, the impact with the bottle sends a train of expansion-compression waves through the liquid. This causes the tiny bubbles that already exist in the fluid to fragment into many smaller bubbles.

In the second stage, the sudden increase in the number of bubbles rapidly increases their surface area. And this dramatically increases the rate at which carbon dioxide can enter them, causing them to grow.

There's no air in beer, or else the beer would taste really oxidized. The only gas in beer is carbon dioxide, or in the cases of nitrogenated beers, a mixture of carbon dioxide and nitrogen.

"Carbon dioxide entering the bubbles" don't make no sense, if the bubbles already ARE carbon dioxide.

I read the article as saying that the air bubbles were CO2and that the impact creates more bubbles and frees up more CO2to go from the liquid to the bubble. I agree there's not going to be too much of any other gasses other than CO2in the beer, I didn't see a reference to air being in the beer in the article.

It's confusing. The sudden shock wave causes CO2 to fall out of solution to form bubbles of CO2, and the extra surface area of the CO2 bubbles causes more CO2 to fall out of solution? Is that what they're saying?


I agree it's confusing as fark the way it is described but I think you've nailed it.
 
2014-03-21 03:36:15 PM  

PainInTheASP: I was hoping for a video of a bunch of drunk physicists berating a bartender for giving them too much foam.


Why? Physicists don't like head?
 
2014-03-21 03:41:18 PM  

Lando Lincoln: It's confusing. The sudden shock wave causes CO2 to fall out of solution to form bubbles of CO2, and the extra surface area of the CO2 bubbles causes more CO2 to fall out of solution? Is that what they're saying?


Is there any other way to read it?

There's CO2 in the bubbles, and there's CO2 in the beer. The second joins the first.
 
2014-03-21 03:58:35 PM  
 
2014-03-21 05:10:40 PM  
www.yahooserious.com
 
2014-03-21 05:32:55 PM  

Lando Lincoln: or in the cases of nitrogenated beers, a mixture of carbon dioxide and nitrogen.


This statement is misleading.  With nitro setups, the amount of Nitrogen actually dissolved in the beer is very close to zero, if anything.  Nitrogen taps work on the principle of pushing low volume carbonated beer through a diffuser then nozzle with an inert gas mixture to prevent saturating the beer with dissolved gas.  Pushing beer carbonated to 1.2 - 1.5 volumes of CO2 through small holes at high pressure (25-35 psi typically) will knock some dissolved gas out of the beer as it's being poured, channel through the nozzle, and into the glass to cascade as it settles.  Nitrogen is used along with some small portion of CO2 (referred to as "beer gas") to push the beer because the pressure required to achieve this effect would over-carbonate the beer if just CO2 alone were used.  Food grade Argon would also work.
 
2014-03-21 06:26:54 PM  

Communist_Manifesto: I agree it's confusing as fark the way it is described but I think you've nailed it.



I went to a lecture by Richard Zare last year.  He covered CO2 bubble growth in beer quite well:

http://www.stanford.edu/group/Zarelab/publinks/421.pdf
 
2014-03-21 07:21:10 PM  
Drunk physicists?  Is there any other kind?

/physicist
//if we're not drunk, we're caffeinated
 
2014-03-21 07:58:01 PM  
it's called fobbing, or fopping the bottle.and the shockwaves cause a cascacing effect of CO2 coming out of solution.. when I hand bottled, we used a wrench to tap the side of the bottle, in the automated machinery we use a directed jet of CO2 gas, or filtered water to agitate the bottle. the result is the same... the agitation causes a rise of foam that pushes any air out of the bottle and you cap on foam.
 
2014-03-21 08:19:41 PM  

Cerebral Knievel: it's called fobbing, or fopping the bottle.and the shockwaves cause a cascacing effect of CO2 coming out of solution.. when I hand bottled, we used a wrench to tap the side of the bottle, in the automated machinery we use a directed jet of CO2 gas, or filtered water to agitate the bottle. the result is the same... the agitation causes a rise of foam that pushes any air out of the bottle and you cap on foam.


Hey Cerebral.  Long time no see.  How're things at the brewery?  Still expanding into more markets?
 
2014-03-21 08:21:27 PM  

F1_Fan: Communist_Manifesto: I agree it's confusing as fark the way it is described but I think you've nailed it.


I went to a lecture by Richard Zare last year.  He covered CO2 bubble growth in beer quite well:

http://www.stanford.edu/group/Zarelab/publinks/421.pdf


Thanks! That was a much better explanation.
 
2014-03-21 09:07:28 PM  

Bruxellensis: Cerebral Knievel: it's called fobbing, or fopping the bottle.and the shockwaves cause a cascacing effect of CO2 coming out of solution.. when I hand bottled, we used a wrench to tap the side of the bottle, in the automated machinery we use a directed jet of CO2 gas, or filtered water to agitate the bottle. the result is the same... the agitation causes a rise of foam that pushes any air out of the bottle and you cap on foam.

Hey Cerebral.  Long time no see.  How're things at the brewery?  Still expanding into more markets?


creeping into South Carolina now.. we're in the middle of a biog infrastructure upgrade right now. the four lane highway hard pipe system just went into operation last week. our new (to us) glycol system should be operational by JUly, then a new boiler should come online after that.

after all that dust settles, then four 120bbl fermenters, and two 120 brights

we got label approval for NJ and CA now because of our affiliation with the original Craft beer club, but probably keep our distribution limited to the south east


meenwhile.. all year long, we are celebrating 20 years of doing business and we just installed a one of a kind live draught beer system for the pub and have expanded our "real ale" program.


I just bottled 177 cases of 22's of our big anniversary ale today, and that same beer, conditioned of VA Gentleman Barrels will be available at the anniversary  party April 19th

We're doing quarterly collaboration brews with other brewers in the state this year as well... the oyster stout just sold out, and we did a abby dubbel yesterday. And that stuff is currently spooging all over the floor of the brewery :D
 
2014-03-21 09:08:18 PM  

FizixJunkee: Drunk physicists?  Is there any other kind?

/physicist
//if we're not drunk, we're caffeinated


this.

/same here
 
2014-03-21 09:49:17 PM  

wjllope: FizixJunkee: Drunk physicists?  Is there any other kind?

/physicist
//if we're not drunk, we're caffeinated

this.

/same here


Our QC lab guy at the brewery is Primarily a theoretical physicist but has taken to the art of yeast wrangling quite well.

he is usually rather animated because he only needs a little bit from the production samples to run his tests and uses the rest to run tactile tests for color, clarity, mouth feel and taste.
 
2014-03-21 10:39:11 PM  

Cerebral Knievel: Bruxellensis: Cerebral Knievel: it's called fobbing, or fopping the bottle.and the shockwaves cause a cascacing effect of CO2 coming out of solution.. when I hand bottled, we used a wrench to tap the side of the bottle, in the automated machinery we use a directed jet of CO2 gas, or filtered water to agitate the bottle. the result is the same... the agitation causes a rise of foam that pushes any air out of the bottle and you cap on foam.

Hey Cerebral.  Long time no see.  How're things at the brewery?  Still expanding into more markets?

creeping into South Carolina now.. we're in the middle of a biog infrastructure upgrade right now. the four lane highway hard pipe system just went into operation last week. our new (to us) glycol system should be operational by JUly, then a new boiler should come online after that.

after all that dust settles, then four 120bbl fermenters, and two 120 brights

we got label approval for NJ and CA now because of our affiliation with the original Craft beer club, but probably keep our distribution limited to the south east


meenwhile.. all year long, we are celebrating 20 years of doing business and we just installed a one of a kind live draught beer system for the pub and have expanded our "real ale" program.


I just bottled 177 cases of 22's of our big anniversary ale today, and that same beer, conditioned of VA Gentleman Barrels will be available at the anniversary  party April 19th

We're doing quarterly collaboration brews with other brewers in the state this year as well... the oyster stout just sold out, and we did a abby dubbel yesterday. And that stuff is currently spooging all over the floor of the brewery :D


Sounds great.  Wish I could sample some.
 
2014-03-22 05:48:39 PM  

Lando Lincoln: The data reveals that the foaming-over process can be divided into three stages. In the first stage, the impact with the bottle sends a train of expansion-compression waves through the liquid. This causes the tiny bubbles that already exist in the fluid to fragment into many smaller bubbles.

In the second stage, the sudden increase in the number of bubbles rapidly increases their surface area. And this dramatically increases the rate at which carbon dioxide can enter them, causing them to grow.

There's no air in beer, or else the beer would taste really oxidized. The only gas in beer is carbon dioxide, or in the cases of nitrogenated beers, a mixture of carbon dioxide and nitrogen.

"Carbon dioxide entering the bubbles" don't make no sense, if the bubbles already ARE carbon dioxide.


My understanding is that the bubbles form due to nuclear reactions that split the beer atoms.
 
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