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(Reuters)   So, yeah, um, that debris we saw...we can't find it now. And, um, did you know that airplanes are made of materials that sink?   (reuters.com) divider line 83
    More: Obvious, Australians, ExpressJet, Andaman Sea, surveillance aircraft, square kilometres, Gulf of Thailand, debris, airplanes  
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3273 clicks; posted to Main » on 21 Mar 2014 at 11:06 AM (35 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-03-21 11:55:40 AM  
Francisco Franco is still dead.
-CNN
 
2014-03-21 11:55:46 AM  

MrPleasant: neversubmit: Ring ring hello? o hi how's the bottom of the ocean? wet

Missing Malaysia Airlines Flight MH370: Passengers' Mobile Phones Ring But Not Answered

The mystery surrounding the missing Malaysia Airlines flight MH370 has deepened with the Chinese media reporting that several of the passengers' mobile phones were connecting when called by relatives, but the calls were not picked up.

Yeah, I'm calling BS on that.  If it were true they would be able to figure out exactly (well, within a mile or so) of where those phones were located.


Seriously, WTF? That is a weird twist on this story. Not to mention the fact that most of those people would have smartphones, which would be long drained of power by now. Unless the aliens are charging them, of course.
 
2014-03-21 11:57:00 AM  

Tr0mBoNe: Makes sense. But I'd expect a Navy style system... strange.


The P-8 is built on a 737 airframe. It's not operated from Carrier Groups, where the drogue refueling system would be expected. It's operated from land-based bases, and would be able to be refueled by land-based aircraft if the increased loiter was necessary.
 
2014-03-21 11:59:19 AM  

WTFDYW: Old_Chief_Scott: That is an awful lot of open ocean to search. It's also a four hour flight just to get to the search area. So, anyone know what the loiter time would be for a P-3 or a P-8?

2 hrs


The P3 record is a flying time of over 21 hours.  Global Security rates the max endurance at 12 hours, others cite a normal endurance of 10.5 hours.  A P-8 is a totally different animal but has roughly the same endurance of 10.5 hours however it cruises at 440 kts whereas the P-3 cruises over 100 kts slower.
 
2014-03-21 12:01:58 PM  

neversubmit: The mystery surrounding the missing Malaysia Airlines flight MH370 has deepened with the Chinese media reporting that several of the passengers' mobile phones were connecting when called by relatives, but the calls were not picked up.


Unless they're also reporting the cell tower ID those phones are connecting with, I'm calling bullshiat.
 
2014-03-21 12:03:32 PM  

neversubmit: MrPleasant: neversubmit: Ring ring hello? o hi how's the bottom of the ocean? wet

Missing Malaysia Airlines Flight MH370: Passengers' Mobile Phones Ring But Not Answered

The mystery surrounding the missing Malaysia Airlines flight MH370 has deepened with the Chinese media reporting that several of the passengers' mobile phones were connecting when called by relatives, but the calls were not picked up.

Yeah, I'm calling BS on that.  If it were true they would be able to figure out exactly (well, within a mile or so) of where those phones were located.

Missing/Dead love ones do mess with a persons emotions.

FTFA: 19 families have signed a joint statement saying that their family members' cell phones connected, but the calls hung up. The relatives have asked Malaysia Airlines to reveal any information they might be hiding, seeking an explanation for the eerie phone connections. The relatives have complained that the Malaysina Airlines is not responding as actively as it should.
Angry family members also threw water bottles at an MAS spokesman and threatened to protest in front of the Malaysian embassy in China if the airlines did not "disclose" the "truth".


Sadly, when phones are roaming, people calling will frequently get ring tones when dialing while the network tries to find them.  Then, when the phone isn't found, it finally either goes to voicemail or hangs up. This happened on the crash in Indonesia a few years ago.  Sucks for the family.

Tr0mBoNe: hardinparamedic: Tr0mBoNe: P-3 can't refuel in air and I doubt the P-8 could. Too slow, too big.

Uh...

[airrefuelingarchive.files.wordpress.com image 850x568]

Nice. Now show me a real plane.

dukeblue219: Per Wikipedia the P-8 does indeed have mid-air refueling with a USAF-type boom system.

Makes sense. But I'd expect a Navy style system... strange.


I heard that the P-8 refueling system isn't installed in all of them, and isn't active yet.
 
2014-03-21 12:03:50 PM  

PunGent: I was wondering about this.  There was an expert (of some sort, only caught part of the program) on NPR yesterday saying parts of the tail were made of composites and would float, but pretty quickly brushed past that and started talking about seat cushions, etc.

Anybody know if modern aircraft composites float?  Doesn't sound right to me...


static5.businessinsider.com
 
2014-03-21 12:04:23 PM  
From my understanding, when you get down into the Southern Ocean, the plane might as well have been swallowed by a black hole.
 
2014-03-21 12:06:55 PM  
No, unfortunately the reporters misheard...an official was actually remarking "We think we finally found DA BRIE"; they'd been searching for the misplaced cheese for several hours prior...
 
2014-03-21 12:11:30 PM  

Datanerd: Sadly, when phones are roaming, people calling will frequently get ring tones when dialing while the network tries to find them. Then, when the phone isn't found, it finally either goes to voicemail or hangs up. This happened on the crash in Indonesia a few years ago. Sucks for the family.


Before the age of the cell phone an Aunt of mine swears she got a call from her dead husband the day after we buried him. My point is it may have nothing to do with the tech but more to do with human nature.
 
2014-03-21 12:12:37 PM  
The ringing phones thing is not BS, but it doesn't help either. It's just the phone company sending ringtones while it looks for the phone/s. It doesn't mean the phones are still there.
 
2014-03-21 12:15:46 PM  

TanHamster: I'm not sure how useful the P-3 really is for this sort of thing.  That appendage out the back is used for detecting the magnetic disturbance created by the huge, steel hull of a submarine.  Other than that, I suppose it has a search radar, but there's, what, one crewmember looking at the radar scans.  Seems like tomnod is more likely to find something, if there's anything left to find on the surface.

Composites materials such as kevlar, fiberglas, carbon fiber, etc, do not float, per se.  If there happens to be a watertight thing made out of composite materials, then, sure, it'll float.


It has a crew of 11. Pilot, Co-pilot, nav, (some models have a flight engineer), and the rest is mission spec. There are 4 windows specially designed for visual survey. I would actually say that the P-3 is the best plane for doing any form of aerial search over water.

It also has radar and IR cameras.
 
2014-03-21 12:18:07 PM  
Jeep2011:
You see the plane either crashed or it did not crash.
John Madden


I think that if they find it, then we'll know a lot more about what happened.
 
2014-03-21 12:24:50 PM  

croesius: And why the HELL don't planes have GPS?


hey do have GPS, they just don't always transmit their GPS location.  Also, here.
 
2014-03-21 12:30:18 PM  
1) Turn off location signal
2) ...
3) ...
 
2014-03-21 12:32:55 PM  

BSABSVR: phenn: Shot down.

They know where it is.

Bunch of distraction from Crimea.

"They"


www.movieposter.com
 
2014-03-21 12:38:16 PM  

moike: The best running tally of what is known and not known so far can be found on airliners.net

Look at this thread,  http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/general_aviation/read.main/6 0 32551

Specifically post 152 in that thread by 'rcair1'


THIS. People in these threads on fark are just asking the same questions and making the same guesses that were debunked a week and a half ago.
 
2014-03-21 12:42:03 PM  

Sheila_McSly: The ringing phones thing is not BS, but it doesn't help either. It's just the phone company sending ringtones while it looks for the phone/s. It doesn't mean the phones are still there.


The part were they said the phones were connecting is BS.
 
2014-03-21 12:43:58 PM  

Ambitwistor: hey do have GPS, they just don't always transmit their GPS location.


I imagine this is going to change in the near future. With that Airbus's signal of rapid decompression, and this Boeing's engine signals, I wouldn't be surprised if all these signals start getting GPS stamps attached to them.
 
2014-03-21 12:45:20 PM  

Old_Chief_Scott: hardinparamedic: Tr0mBoNe: P-3 can't refuel in air and I doubt the P-8 could. Too slow, too big.

Uh...

[airrefuelingarchive.files.wordpress.com image 850x568]

See where it says "TEST CENTER" in big letters on the side? Yeah, about that...


Indeed, according to the Google, one major improvement of the P-8 over the P-3 is that it can be refueled in mid-air. And the Navy used to use A-6 tankers flying with long range strikes partway to fill up the strike aircraft before they continued on to their targets, so the tankers do not need to travel all of the way to the search area to provide more time.

My guess is a.) the tankers aren't available, b.) most of the search aircraft are the far more numerous P-3s that cannot refuel, and c.) the additional time would be an hour or two at the most, which is pissing into a hurricane.
 
2014-03-21 12:48:38 PM  

nekom: Jeep2011:
You see the plane either crashed or it did not crash.
John Madden

I think that if they find it, then we'll know a lot more about what happened.


It wouldn't have enough fuel to stay up in the air this long.
 
2014-03-21 12:59:42 PM  
The picture of the 24 meter object looks so similar to the mottled glare in the rest of the photograph, I don't see why this was so significant. I read a hypothesis that a government has a very high resolution version of the image showing an aircraft part, and that they added noise and blurring to hide their surveillance capabilities. That seems kind of far-fetched, when they could just describe the lead without releasing any image. Assuming this is the best photo they have, the mottled glare spot that's supposed to be a 24m object seems only about twice as big as the mottled glare spot 40 meters to its left, and three times as big as the spot 50 meters to its south. Considering there are 4.2 gazillion other glare spots in the ocean in any given millisecond, some no-doubt bigger/brighter than this one, I don't see what made this one so special. Courtney Love's find seemed just as convincing.

cbsnews1.cbsistatic.com
 
2014-03-21 01:02:59 PM  

croesius: If they want to avoid this entire thing entirely, they should just put airbags on the airplane. If it crashes, the bags deploy, and the plane floats on the surface. No one drowns, plane is found.

Also, I guarantee the passengers had some phones turned on, and said phones were linking to GPS. Why not backtrace their phone numbers, and subpeona their location data from the carriers?

And why the HELL don't planes have GPS?



Holy shiat, we have a genius here.  Why didn't anyone else ever think of the cell phone idea?
I'm sure it will be a trivial matter to get the location of the phones based on which cell tower they were communicating with in the middle of the ocean.
 
2014-03-21 01:12:05 PM  

croesius: Also, I guarantee the passengers had some phones turned on, and said phones were linking to GPS. Why not backtrace their phone numbers, and subpeona their location data from the carriers?

And why the HELL don't planes have GPS?


Most airliners (and most aircraft in general) do have GPS. Some passengers probably did have phones on with GPS activated. But how do you intend to find out where those devices were? GPS is a one-way street. If the plane or a phone uses GPS to ascertain its location, that doesn't provide any mechanism for the rest of the world to know where the user is. The only way, for example with a cell phone, is for the user to broadcast his or her location by another means, such as a data connection to a cell tower.

Its commonly believed that if your GPS device knows where you are then the satellite has a record of that, but it doesn't work that way.
 
2014-03-21 01:38:49 PM  

The_Hound: moike: The best running tally of what is known and not known so far can be found on airliners.net

Look at this thread,  http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/general_aviation/read.main/6 0 32551

Specifically post 152 in that thread by 'rcair1'

THIS. People in these threads on fark are just asking the same questions and making the same guesses that were debunked a week and a half ago.


Yeah, that's been my go-to place for air crash speculation for years now.  Generally speaking, I've found that by the time we get the NTSB report it's usually in line with what the people over there thought from day one.  Though this case is far from ordinary.
 
2014-03-21 01:54:30 PM  
For those who are saying "WHAR GPS WHAR?", they have been trying to implement this technology for about ten years. However, like everything else in the U.S. they are years behind schedule and WAYYYYY over budget. They *hope* to have it fully implemented in the next 2-3 years.
 
2014-03-21 01:57:20 PM  
It went into the ocean

Eventually, it will be found - my guess is a longer time from now than speculated by talking heads ("well? it will take at least a few days")

 It may takes years to find the black boxes. Meanwhile, the ntsb/tsa will issue a joint proposal to "fix" the communication loophole, making flying more expensive and inconvenient. Eventually, there will be a finding of pilot error/blame that will serve to mitigate insurance payouts to families based on some technicalities. Somewhere in there, some special reports will appear documenting pilots working while sleep deprived. There will be tabloid take-offs. "Is Your Pilot Going To Kill You? Read more about the 5 signs to look for!" and "Pilot Errors - Are They Just Tired or Taliban?"

In the end, all aboard were lost, there will always be internet gossip about the pilot with the funny name and home flight simulator, and this will be another "all souls lost at sea" story - they are legion.

Ever wonder, really, what the ocean floor would look like absent water? I picture some sort of desert strewn with wreckage as far as the horizon.

I hope it was fast and painless.
 
2014-03-21 02:10:40 PM  
parasol:
Ever wonder, really, what the ocean floor would look like absent water? I picture some sort of desert strewn with wreckage as far as the horizon.

I hope it was fast and painless.


There's a small pond around here that used to be a strip mine, over 300 feet deep at one end.  Some drunk knucklehead drove into it and drowned and they called off the search because their sonar found no less than two dozen suspected cars.  Most probably from insurance fraud/theft over the years.  I can't even begin to imagine what you'd find in the oceans.
 
2014-03-21 02:12:02 PM  

parasol: It went into the ocean

Eventually, it will be found - my guess is a longer time from now than speculated by talking heads ("well? it will take at least a few days")

 It may takes years to find the black boxes. Meanwhile, the ntsb/tsa will issue a joint proposal to "fix" the communication loophole, making flying more expensive and inconvenient. Eventually, there will be a finding of pilot error/blame that will serve to mitigate insurance payouts to families based on some technicalities. Somewhere in there, some special reports will appear documenting pilots working while sleep deprived. There will be tabloid take-offs. "Is Your Pilot Going To Kill You? Read more about the 5 signs to look for!" and "Pilot Errors - Are They Just Tired or Taliban?"

In the end, all aboard were lost, there will always be internet gossip about the pilot with the funny name and home flight simulator, and this will be another "all souls lost at sea" story - they are legion.

Ever wonder, really, what the ocean floor would look like absent water? I picture some sort of desert strewn with wreckage as far as the horizon.

I hope it was fast and painless.


THIS
 
2014-03-21 02:25:57 PM  
left turn Clyde!
 
2014-03-21 03:47:11 PM  

impaler: PunGent: I was wondering about this.  There was an expert (of some sort, only caught part of the program) on NPR yesterday saying parts of the tail were made of composites and would float, but pretty quickly brushed past that and started talking about seat cushions, etc.

Anybody know if modern aircraft composites float?  Doesn't sound right to me...

[static5.businessinsider.com image 480x353]


Interesting, but that chunk's not 80 feet long, which is what I remember the news report saying.  Radio could've easily screwed it up I suppose.

So what are modern tails made of?  I'd forgotten about that Air France chunk...is it air pockets inside keeping it afloat,or is the material actually that light?

Pretty cool if it's really that lightweight...
 
2014-03-21 03:48:26 PM  

Old_Chief_Scott: PunGent: I was wondering about this.  There was an expert (of some sort, only caught part of the program) on NPR yesterday saying parts of the tail were made of composites and would float, but pretty quickly brushed past that and started talking about seat cushions, etc.

Anybody know if modern aircraft composites float?  Doesn't sound right to me...

Certain parts would most certainly float. Those composite skins are generally bonded to a honeycomb material to provide strength against compression. The honeycomb provides big air pockets.


Interesting, thanks.   Similar to modern crew shells, maybe...they're made of a honeycomb laminate, and are pretty light and strong.
 
2014-03-21 10:32:48 PM  

hardinparamedic: Don't worry. Over the next few years we'll start hearing stories of plane debris washing up on beaches in the Pacific.


The bodies washing up is going to be the really unpleasant part.
 
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