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(Reuters)   So, yeah, um, that debris we saw...we can't find it now. And, um, did you know that airplanes are made of materials that sink?   (reuters.com) divider line 83
    More: Obvious, Australians, ExpressJet, Andaman Sea, surveillance aircraft, square kilometres, Gulf of Thailand, debris, airplanes  
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3271 clicks; posted to Main » on 21 Mar 2014 at 11:06 AM (30 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-03-21 10:48:42 AM  
It's really going to depend on how it hit the water.  If it did so violently, there would be floating debris for some time, very widely scattered by now.  If it went in gently, the whole thing or at least most of it could be at the ocean floor by now.  Unless of course it was aliens, then all bets are off.
 
2014-03-21 10:51:28 AM  
Shouldn't the seat cushions be keeping the plane buoyant?
 
2014-03-21 10:58:30 AM  
That is an awful lot of open ocean to search. It's also a four hour flight just to get to the search area. So, anyone know what the loiter time would be for a P-3 or a P-8?
 
2014-03-21 10:59:46 AM  
has anyone told them that debris floating in water will not remain in the same place?  that it will travel, being pushed by the currents?
 
2014-03-21 11:08:41 AM  
This just in, the oceans are full of garbage.

Later on we will go to CNN with their report of water not being blue or green, but orange, and how very very dry water makes you.
 
2014-03-21 11:09:10 AM  

Old_Chief_Scott: That is an awful lot of open ocean to search. It's also a four hour flight just to get to the search area. So, anyone know what the loiter time would be for a P-3 or a P-8?


After a travel time of 4 hours to the search area, and accounting for another 4 hours back to Oz, it's not really that long.
 
2014-03-21 11:09:11 AM  

Old_Chief_Scott: That is an awful lot of open ocean to search. It's also a four hour flight just to get to the search area. So, anyone know what the loiter time would be for a P-3 or a P-8?


2 hrs
 
2014-03-21 11:09:53 AM  
Don't worry. Over the next few years we'll start hearing stories of plane debris washing up on beaches in the Pacific.
 
2014-03-21 11:09:59 AM  
I'm trying to forget this story. Terrible.
 
2014-03-21 11:10:05 AM  

SlothB77: has anyone told them that debris floating in water will not remain in the same place?  that it will travel, being pushed by the currents?


Yes. They were briefed on that already and have already mentioned it.
 
2014-03-21 11:11:06 AM  
There never was any floating debris.  Black holes don't leave debris.
 
2014-03-21 11:13:42 AM  
Those poor families.
 
2014-03-21 11:14:14 AM  
Breaking News!!!

Plane still missing.
-CNN
 
2014-03-21 11:15:43 AM  

WTFDYW: Old_Chief_Scott: That is an awful lot of open ocean to search. It's also a four hour flight just to get to the search area. So, anyone know what the loiter time would be for a P-3 or a P-8?

2 hrs


Depends on whether they refuel part way out or part way back, or both. That would depend on having the tanker assets available to do so. I don't think one could accompany the planes all the way to the search area and top them off before they began the actual search though, so you might be getting an extra hour or two at most.
 
2014-03-21 11:15:57 AM  

nekom: It's really going to depend on how it hit the water.  If it did so violently, there would be floating debris for some time, very widely scattered by now.  If it went in gently, the whole thing or at least most of it could be at the ocean floor by now.  Unless of course it was aliens, then all bets are off.


Not if you bet on aliens.
 
2014-03-21 11:16:39 AM  

CheatCommando: WTFDYW: Old_Chief_Scott: That is an awful lot of open ocean to search. It's also a four hour flight just to get to the search area. So, anyone know what the loiter time would be for a P-3 or a P-8?

2 hrs

Depends on whether they refuel part way out or part way back, or both. That would depend on having the tanker assets available to do so. I don't think one could accompany the planes all the way to the search area and top them off before they began the actual search though, so you might be getting an extra hour or two at most.


P-3 can't refuel in air and I doubt the P-8 could. Too slow, too big.
 
2014-03-21 11:18:27 AM  
Plane laned in Atlanta.
 
2014-03-21 11:18:38 AM  

raerae1980: Those poor familiesreporters.


ftfy
 
2014-03-21 11:20:10 AM  
Ring ring hello? o hi how's the bottom of the ocean? wet

Missing Malaysia Airlines Flight MH370: Passengers' Mobile Phones Ring But Not Answered

The mystery surrounding the missing Malaysia Airlines flight MH370 has deepened with the Chinese media reporting that several of the passengers' mobile phones were connecting when called by relatives, but the calls were not picked up.
 
2014-03-21 11:21:09 AM  

CheatCommando: Depends on whether they refuel part way out or part way back, or both. That would depend on having the tanker assets available to do so. I don't think one could accompany the planes all the way to the search area and top them off before they began the actual search though, so you might be getting an extra hour or two at most.


Tankers need to be based near the area where refueling takes place, otherwise they have the same range limitations as the aircraft they would be refueling. And there's nothing but water and sea monsters out there. Not to mention that you can't refuel just any old plane in midair, just military planes that have been configured for that.
 
2014-03-21 11:21:24 AM  

fluffy2097: This just in, the oceans are full of garbage.

Later on we will go to CNN with their report of water not being blue or green, but orange, and how very very dry water makes you.


All joking aside, salt water actually WILL dehydrate you.  Maybe not the same thing as "dry", but certainly really bad.
 
2014-03-21 11:22:07 AM  

SlothB77: has anyone told them that debris floating in water will not remain in the same place?  that it will travel, being pushed by the currents?


No.
 
2014-03-21 11:22:31 AM  
There is no way all of the debris could have sunk if the plane crashed. The seat backs are floatation devices. There is also a lot of other materials that would float. But had the aircraft been soft landed on water and later sunk relatively intact, there'd be little to no debris. They either haven't found the crash site yet or the plane is on land somewhere.
 
2014-03-21 11:23:01 AM  
What else floats?
 
2014-03-21 11:23:04 AM  

Tr0mBoNe: P-3 can't refuel in air and I doubt the P-8 could. Too slow, too big.


Per Wikipedia the P-8 does indeed have mid-air refueling with a USAF-type boom system.
 
2014-03-21 11:24:20 AM  

raerae1980: Those poor families.


For their sakes I hope by this point they'd be trying to come to grips with the fact the plane is gone and wherever they find the farking thing their loved ones are highly unlikely to be alive. To continue to cling to hope through all the BS surrounding this thing would be torturous.
 
2014-03-21 11:25:19 AM  

Tr0mBoNe: P-3 can't refuel in air and I doubt the P-8 could. Too slow, too big.


Uh...

airrefuelingarchive.files.wordpress.com
 
2014-03-21 11:26:06 AM  
lh4.googleusercontent.com
 
2014-03-21 11:27:32 AM  

dukeblue219: Tr0mBoNe: P-3 can't refuel in air and I doubt the P-8 could. Too slow, too big.

Per Wikipedia the P-8 does indeed have mid-air refueling with a USAF-type boom system.


It's two hours, all the articles reported it.  The planes can only search for two hours once they get there, which is basically nothing in a search area that friggin large.  Even if debris are floating it's no surprise they're hard to find.
 
2014-03-21 11:27:45 AM  

hardinparamedic: Tr0mBoNe: P-3 can't refuel in air and I doubt the P-8 could. Too slow, too big.

Uh...

[airrefuelingarchive.files.wordpress.com image 850x568]


See where it says "TEST CENTER" in big letters on the side? Yeah, about that...
 
2014-03-21 11:27:58 AM  
I was wondering about this.  There was an expert (of some sort, only caught part of the program) on NPR yesterday saying parts of the tail were made of composites and would float, but pretty quickly brushed past that and started talking about seat cushions, etc.

Anybody know if modern aircraft composites float?  Doesn't sound right to me...
 
2014-03-21 11:30:19 AM  

PunGent: I was wondering about this.  There was an expert (of some sort, only caught part of the program) on NPR yesterday saying parts of the tail were made of composites and would float, but pretty quickly brushed past that and started talking about seat cushions, etc.

Anybody know if modern aircraft composites float?  Doesn't sound right to me...


Certain parts would most certainly float. Those composite skins are generally bonded to a honeycomb material to provide strength against compression. The honeycomb provides big air pockets.
 
2014-03-21 11:31:51 AM  

JackieRabbit: There is no way all of the debris could have sunk if the plane crashed. The seat backs are floatation devices. There is also a lot of other materials that would float. But had the aircraft been soft landed on water and later sunk relatively intact, there'd be little to no debris. They either haven't found the crash site yet or the plane is on land somewhere.


Brilliant!  It's either crashed or it's not.
 
2014-03-21 11:31:53 AM  

Carn: What else floats?


Small rocks
 
2014-03-21 11:35:31 AM  
Pulau Perak
Pulau Perak
Pulau Perak
Pulau Perak
Pulau Perak
Pulau Perak
 
2014-03-21 11:35:34 AM  
When planes crash, they smash into bits (many of which are buoyant, such as seat cushions, luggage, etc.).
 
2014-03-21 11:36:44 AM  

MNguy: JackieRabbit: There is no way all of the debris could have sunk if the plane crashed. The seat backs are floatation devices. There is also a lot of other materials that would float. But had the aircraft been soft landed on water and later sunk relatively intact, there'd be little to no debris. They either haven't found the crash site yet or the plane is on land somewhere.

Brilliant!  It's either crashed or it's not.


I think what he was trying to say was that the plane is probably somewhere.
 
2014-03-21 11:37:53 AM  
Shot down.

They know where it is.

Bunch of distraction from Crimea.
 
2014-03-21 11:37:55 AM  

hardinparamedic: Tr0mBoNe: P-3 can't refuel in air and I doubt the P-8 could. Too slow, too big.

Uh...

[airrefuelingarchive.files.wordpress.com image 850x568]


Nice. Now show me a real plane.

dukeblue219: Per Wikipedia the P-8 does indeed have mid-air refueling with a USAF-type boom system.


Makes sense. But I'd expect a Navy style system... strange.
 
2014-03-21 11:38:15 AM  

MNguy: JackieRabbit: There is no way all of the debris could have sunk if the plane crashed. The seat backs are floatation devices. There is also a lot of other materials that would float. But had the aircraft been soft landed on water and later sunk relatively intact, there'd be little to no debris. They either haven't found the crash site yet or the plane is on land somewhere.

Brilliant!  It's either crashed or it's not.


He forgot Poland. And aliens.
 
2014-03-21 11:40:42 AM  

GardenWeasel: Pulau Perak
Pulau Perak
Pulau Perak
Pulau Perak
Pulau Perak
Pulau Perak


Where in the world is Diego Garcia?
 
2014-03-21 11:43:23 AM  
I'm not sure how useful the P-3 really is for this sort of thing.  That appendage out the back is used for detecting the magnetic disturbance created by the huge, steel hull of a submarine.  Other than that, I suppose it has a search radar, but there's, what, one crewmember looking at the radar scans.  Seems like tomnod is more likely to find something, if there's anything left to find on the surface.

Composites materials such as kevlar, fiberglas, carbon fiber, etc, do not float, per se.  If there happens to be a watertight thing made out of composite materials, then, sure, it'll float.
 
2014-03-21 11:44:13 AM  
If they want to avoid this entire thing entirely, they should just put airbags on the airplane. If it crashes, the bags deploy, and the plane floats on the surface. No one drowns, plane is found.

Also, I guarantee the passengers had some phones turned on, and said phones were linking to GPS. Why not backtrace their phone numbers, and subpeona their location data from the carriers?

And why the HELL don't planes have GPS?
 
2014-03-21 11:45:46 AM  

MNguy: JackieRabbit: There is no way all of the debris could have sunk if the plane crashed. The seat backs are floatation devices. There is also a lot of other materials that would float. But had the aircraft been soft landed on water and later sunk relatively intact, there'd be little to no debris. They either haven't found the crash site yet or the plane is on land somewhere.

Brilliant!  It's either crashed or it's not.


You see the plane either crashed or it did not crash.
John Madden
 
2014-03-21 11:48:22 AM  

neversubmit: Ring ring hello? o hi how's the bottom of the ocean? wet

Missing Malaysia Airlines Flight MH370: Passengers' Mobile Phones Ring But Not Answered

The mystery surrounding the missing Malaysia Airlines flight MH370 has deepened with the Chinese media reporting that several of the passengers' mobile phones were connecting when called by relatives, but the calls were not picked up.


Yeah, I'm calling BS on that.  If it were true they would be able to figure out exactly (well, within a mile or so) of where those phones were located.
 
2014-03-21 11:52:09 AM  
The plane is on solid ground.

The question is - Is the ground dry or covered with 10,000 feet of water?
 
2014-03-21 11:52:16 AM  

MrPleasant: neversubmit: Ring ring hello? o hi how's the bottom of the ocean? wet

Missing Malaysia Airlines Flight MH370: Passengers' Mobile Phones Ring But Not Answered

The mystery surrounding the missing Malaysia Airlines flight MH370 has deepened with the Chinese media reporting that several of the passengers' mobile phones were connecting when called by relatives, but the calls were not picked up.

Yeah, I'm calling BS on that.  If it were true they would be able to figure out exactly (well, within a mile or so) of where those phones were located.


Missing/Dead love ones do mess with a persons emotions.

FTFA: 19 families have signed a joint statement saying that their family members' cell phones connected, but the calls hung up. The relatives have asked Malaysia Airlines to reveal any information they might be hiding, seeking an explanation for the eerie phone connections. The relatives have complained that the Malaysina Airlines is not responding as actively as it should.
Angry family members also threw water bottles at an MAS spokesman and threatened to protest in front of the Malaysian embassy in China if the airlines did not "disclose" the "truth".
 
2014-03-21 11:53:57 AM  
The best running tally of what is known and not known so far can be found on airliners.net

Look at this thread,  http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/general_aviation/read.main/6 0 32551

Specifically post 152 in that thread by 'rcair1'
 
2014-03-21 11:54:59 AM  

phenn: Shot down.

They know where it is.

Bunch of distraction from Crimea.


"They"
 
2014-03-21 11:55:17 AM  
I wonder what the odds are of anyone having survived the crash?  What if it went down more Cpt. Sully style than a nosedive?  Just imagine if someone survived the crash, only to die of thirst/starvation floating on some piece of debris for days.  Or eaten by sharks.  All because they weren't found in time like this girl was:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bahia_Bakari
 
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