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(BBC)   MtGox seems to have found $116m of their lost bitcoins. Maybe they should check under the cushions of their sofa next?   (bbc.co.uk) divider line 136
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3740 clicks; posted to Main » on 21 Mar 2014 at 9:25 AM (30 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-03-21 09:12:08 AM  
Sure they have.
 
2014-03-21 09:27:31 AM  
That's probably enough to put most of their investors back to where they were in October or whenever it was before bitcoin soared in price.  They may have been screwed out of their gains, but maybe most of them will not be completely boned.
 
2014-03-21 09:28:17 AM  
So now they are also grossly incompetent at backups and servers as well as networking and security? Good to know.
 
2014-03-21 09:30:08 AM  

Incontinent_dog_and_monkey_rodeo: That's probably enough to put most of their investors back to where they were in October or whenever it was before bitcoin soared in price.  They may have been screwed out of their gains, but maybe most of them will not be completely boned.


They "lost" a total of 409 Million dollars worth of bitcoins, and are being sued by multiple people in the US, Canada, and the UK. 119 million is not going to put "most of their investors" back to where they were. The only reason he's backtracking now is because more than one person caught on to the shady, pyramid nature of MtGOX,and are calling him out over this.
 
2014-03-21 09:30:54 AM  
I wonder what they're going to do with their "found" $100M in bitcoins?  I mean, $85M in bitcoins is a lot of money.  I think they should return their found $60M in bitcoins to their rightful owner.  I'm sure they'll be quite happy when you say "here you go, I found your $15M in lost bitcoins!"
 
2014-03-21 09:30:56 AM  

Incontinent_dog_and_monkey_rodeo: That's probably enough to put most of their investors back to where they were in October or whenever it was before bitcoin soared in price.  They may have been screwed out of their gains, but maybe most of them will not be completely boned.


did you read the article?  They found 200,000 coins that only existed in 2011, so they've only lost 650,000 coins.

They've still screwed people, but it turns out a bit of spittle was used as lube... or maybe a pillow was available for a few customers to bite on.
 
2014-03-21 09:34:17 AM  
I'm sorry; but, why didn't they give each coin a unique serial number; so they could track it? That's like the first thing you'd do when creating a new currency. The second? HASH ALL THE THINGS!
 
2014-03-21 09:35:08 AM  
Put the bastards to work in the mines until they can pay their debts, I say.
 
2014-03-21 09:36:36 AM  

Khellendros: I wonder what they're going to do with their "found" $100M in bitcoins?  I mean, $85M in bitcoins is a lot of money.  I think they should return their found $60M in bitcoins to their rightful owner.  I'm sure they'll be quite happy when you say "here you go, I found your $15M in lost bitcoins!"


I didn't realize that the police had found the $7.5 million in bit coins...
 
2014-03-21 09:37:23 AM  
When are fans of bitcoins finally going to give it up and agree that the test failed. Bitcoin enthusiasts probably still speak Esperanto, too, and are trying to get everyone else "on board".
 
2014-03-21 09:39:01 AM  
How do you "Find" something that doesn't exist??

Oh, yeah, I "found" "Jesus".


/he was out pulling weeds in my garden.
 
2014-03-21 09:41:34 AM  

iheartscotch: I'm sorry; but, why didn't they give each coin a unique serial number; so they could track it? That's like the first thing you'd do when creating a new currency. The second? HASH ALL THE THINGS!


They do, and it's actually a hash.   The biatchain is used not only to identify the bitcoin but to track every transaction it's ever used in.   For anonymous currency, it's not really that anonymous.
 
2014-03-21 09:42:04 AM  

MelGoesOnTour: When are fans of bitcoins finally going to give it up and agree that the test failed. Bitcoin enthusiasts probably still speak Esperanto, too, and are trying to get everyone else "on board".


Most people who are into BitCoins as more than a side hobby are die-hard libertarians who believe it's going to be the BIG THING as soon as the Dollar, Yen, Euro, Pound Sterling, Franc, Deusche Mark, Ruble, and Lira completely collapse on the international market.
 
2014-03-21 09:43:12 AM  

MelGoesOnTour: When are fans of bitcoins finally going to give it up and agree that the test failed. Bitcoin enthusiasts probably still speak Esperanto, too, and are trying to get everyone else "on board".


MtGox failed.
 
2014-03-21 09:45:35 AM  
They put a BitCoin ATM machine (for lack of a better term) at South Station in Boston last month.  The first few weeks, there were teams of young guys flagging people down and trying to sell them on the benefits and trying to get them to stop and check out the machine.

I walked past it yesterday and the thing wasnt on.  I dont really know anything about BitCoins but I did not take that as a good sign.
 
2014-03-21 09:47:09 AM  

DoBeDoBeDo: iheartscotch: I'm sorry; but, why didn't they give each coin a unique serial number; so they could track it? That's like the first thing you'd do when creating a new currency. The second? HASH ALL THE THINGS!

They do, and it's actually a hash.   The biatchain is used not only to identify the bitcoin but to track every transaction it's ever used in.   For anonymous currency, it's not really that anonymous.


If it's hashed and it has a serial number; there's no way to use the stolen ones. Just depreciate the missing serial numbers and issue new coins in the place of the old.

/ or, would that be too easy?
 
2014-03-21 09:47:38 AM  
That's why I use 'letstradepogs.org' for all of my space dollar banking.
 
2014-03-21 09:49:34 AM  

iheartscotch: If it's hashed and it has a serial number; there's no way to use the stolen ones. Just depreciate the missing serial numbers and issue new coins in the place of the old.

/ or, would that be too easy?


As I understand the BitCoin system, you can't actually duplicate those coins. Anyone can still trade those coins as long as the person receiving it would be willing to accept them. The only way to ensure they would not be used would be to block every single hash code from all 850,000 stolen coins from the BitCoin system and transactions.
 
2014-03-21 09:50:01 AM  

iheartscotch: If it's hashed and it has a serial number; there's no way to use the stolen ones. Just depreciate the missing serial numbers and issue new coins in the place of the old.


government-like typing detected
 
2014-03-21 09:54:01 AM  

Gunny Highway: They put a BitCoin ATM machine (for lack of a better term) at South Station in Boston last month.  The first few weeks, there were teams of young guys flagging people down and trying to sell them on the benefits and trying to get them to stop and check out the machine.

I walked past it yesterday and the thing wasnt on.  I dont really know anything about BitCoins but I did not take that as a good sign.



The public ledger, the block chain,  that keeps bitcoin working, and records every transaction is now upwards of 30gb, and the only thing people are using it for is a speculative investment.  The idea this is going to scale for every cup of coffee bought and sold on a daily basis all over the world as a currency is a bit insane.
 
2014-03-21 09:55:19 AM  

hardinparamedic: Incontinent_dog_and_monkey_rodeo: That's probably enough to put most of their investors back to where they were in October or whenever it was before bitcoin soared in price.  They may have been screwed out of their gains, but maybe most of them will not be completely boned.

They "lost" a total of 409 Million dollars worth of bitcoins, and are being sued by multiple people in the US, Canada, and the UK. 119 million is not going to put "most of their investors" back to where they were. The only reason he's backtracking now is because more than one person caught on to the shady, pyramid nature of MtGOX  BITCOINS,and are calling him out over this.

 
2014-03-21 09:55:37 AM  

hardinparamedic: The only reason he's backtracking now is because more than one person caught on to the shady, pyramid nature of MtGOX,and are calling him out over this


Not really a pyramid, just good ol fashioned fractional reserve banking.
 
2014-03-21 09:55:47 AM  

hardinparamedic: MelGoesOnTour: When are fans of bitcoins finally going to give it up and agree that the test failed. Bitcoin enthusiasts probably still speak Esperanto, too, and are trying to get everyone else "on board".

Most people who are into BitCoins as more than a side hobby are die-hard libertarians who believe it's going to be the BIG THING as soon as the Dollar, Yen, Euro, Pound Sterling, Franc, Deusche Mark, Ruble, and Lira completely collapse on the international market.


I'll stick with ammo in various calibers as a backup currency.
 
2014-03-21 09:59:54 AM  
Wow, so they just misplaced 200,000 BitCoins? No wonder they went under when you can just misplace $100 million.
 
2014-03-21 10:03:54 AM  

iheartscotch: Khellendros: I wonder what they're going to do with their "found" $100M in bitcoins?  I mean, $85M in bitcoins is a lot of money.  I think they should return their found $60M in bitcoins to their rightful owner.  I'm sure they'll be quite happy when you say "here you go, I found your $15M in lost bitcoins!"

I didn't realize that the police had found the $7.5 million in bit coins...


img.fark.net

I found you a dollar.
 
2014-03-21 10:04:51 AM  

Publikwerks: Wow, so they just misplaced 200,000 BitCoins? No wonder they went under when you can just misplace $100 million.


More accurately, I think they "misplaced" it, as in "I hope nobody thinks to check for them after I steal them so I can keep them when it all blows over."
 
2014-03-21 10:06:17 AM  
wow well that totally fixes the problem
 
GBB
2014-03-21 10:07:59 AM  

Khellendros: I wonder what they're going to do with their "found" $100M in bitcoins?  I mean, $85M in bitcoins is a lot of money.  I think they should return their found $60M in bitcoins to their rightful owner.  I'm sure they'll be quite happy when you say "here you go, I found your $15M in lost bitcoins!"


Not sure if this is the Everybody-Takes-A-Cut meme, or a narrative at the diminishing value of Bitcoin over time.
 
2014-03-21 10:08:52 AM  

incendi: Put the bastards to work in the mines until they can pay their debts, I say.


They actually make dedicated bitcoin mining computer hardware (which generates a hell of a lot of heat).
Toiling in the bitcoin mines sound like a hot and expensive hobby.
 
2014-03-21 10:13:06 AM  

Khellendros: I wonder what they're going to do with their "found" $100M in bitcoins?  I mean, $85M in bitcoins is a lot of money.  I think they should return their found $60M in bitcoins to their rightful owner.  I'm sure they'll be quite happy when you say "here you go, I found your $15M in lost bitcoins!"


This wasn't a regulated bank, or a storage service where you get back the same bitcoins you deposited. Gox distinguished bitcoins that were theirs versus their customers, not which coins belonged to which customers.

Gox is in bankruptcy in Japan and abroad, and assets will probably be distributed to creditors by the courts after a few years of international lawsuits (less than 1% of creditors are in Japan). I'll be curious what they do with bitcoins that Gox was holding in escrow from another failed Bitcoin exchange, pending US court rulings deciding who should get what. It seems kind of insane that a court would have given them to another exchange for safe keeping, when half of them wind up with a pseudonymous owner saying "got hacked, coins gone, kthxbye!".
 
2014-03-21 10:13:48 AM  

hardinparamedic: Incontinent_dog_and_monkey_rodeo: That's probably enough to put most of their investors back to where they were in October or whenever it was before bitcoin soared in price.  They may have been screwed out of their gains, but maybe most of them will not be completely boned.

They "lost" a total of 409 Million dollars worth of bitcoins, and are being sued by multiple people in the US, Canada, and the UK. 119 million is not going to put "most of their investors" back to where they were. The only reason he's backtracking now is because more than one person caught on to the shady, pyramid nature of MtGOX,and are calling him out over this.


I'd be hesitant to call MtGOX a pyramid scam...could get you into legal trouble, no?  Incompetent, sure, based on what we know...but that's a far cry from "actively fraudulent"...unless I've missed something.

Computer security guy I know said the MtGox thing was probably an inside job; ie, someone walked out with a thumbdrive full of bitcoin info.  Hacking was possible, but unlikely, he thought.

It must be the future, since the GDP of a small country can fit on a thumbdrive...
 
2014-03-21 10:16:06 AM  

DoBeDoBeDo: iheartscotch: I'm sorry; but, why didn't they give each coin a unique serial number; so they could track it? That's like the first thing you'd do when creating a new currency. The second? HASH ALL THE THINGS!

They do, and it's actually a hash.   The biatchain is used not only to identify the bitcoin but to track every transaction it's ever used in.   For anonymous currency, it's not really that anonymous.


The biatchain is the chain MtGox investors will beat him with if he doesn't "find" the rest of their bitcoins.
 
2014-03-21 10:17:02 AM  

MelGoesOnTour: When are fans of bitcoins finally going to give it up and agree that the test failed. Bitcoin enthusiasts probably still speak Esperanto, too, and are trying to get everyone else "on board".


When are people like you going to give up?
 
2014-03-21 10:18:21 AM  
MtGox,  We lost a hundred million bitcoins.  Officials, that kind of fraud will lead to a jail sentence.  MtGox,  Oh look here are 116 million bitcoins we left in a old wallet.
 
2014-03-21 10:20:07 AM  

GBB: Khellendros: I wonder what they're going to do with their "found" $100M in bitcoins?  I mean, $85M in bitcoins is a lot of money.  I think they should return their found $60M in bitcoins to their rightful owner.  I'm sure they'll be quite happy when you say "here you go, I found your $15M in lost bitcoins!"

Not sure if this is the Everybody-Takes-A-Cut meme, or a narrative at the diminishing value of Bitcoin over time.


Both - I was using one to show the other.
 
2014-03-21 10:24:05 AM  

spawn73: MelGoesOnTour: When are fans of bitcoins finally going to give it up and agree that the test failed. Bitcoin enthusiasts probably still speak Esperanto, too, and are trying to get everyone else "on board".

When are people like you going to give up?


As soon as people like you grow up and stop living in your techno-fantasyland.
 
2014-03-21 10:24:59 AM  
Did it say "Bad Motherfarker" on it?
 
2014-03-21 10:25:14 AM  

PunGent: I'd be hesitant to call MtGOX a pyramid scam...could get you into legal trouble, no


i.imgur.com

That would not be a good idea. Because for them to get me into "legal trouble", they would have to objectively demonstrate I was libeling them. Which would open their business practices and finances up to a discovery. Which would, more than likely, indicate Mark Karples is a damn thief.
 
2014-03-21 10:27:27 AM  

hardinparamedic: MelGoesOnTour: When are fans of bitcoins finally going to give it up and agree that the test failed. Bitcoin enthusiasts probably still speak Esperanto, too, and are trying to get everyone else "on board".

Most people who are into BitCoins as more than a side hobby are die-hard libertarians who believe it's going to be the BIG THING as soon as the Dollar, Yen, Euro, Pound Sterling, Franc, Deusche Mark, Ruble, and Lira completely collapse on the international market.


It's been hilarious watching the drama, particularly on r/bitcoin, as all these libertarians and anarcho-capitalists start screaming that some authority needs to step in and police the entities that scammed them.  It's like they're learning how financial regulations work, one mistake at a time.
 
2014-03-21 10:30:44 AM  

UNC_Samurai: .  It's like they're learning how financial regulations work, one mistake at a time.


And fortunately, doing it in their own little sandbox where it has blessedly little effect on the rest of the world.

There are probably some really pissed off drug and gun dealers out there, though.
 
2014-03-21 10:32:13 AM  

hardinparamedic: PunGent: I'd be hesitant to call MtGOX a pyramid scam...could get you into legal trouble, no

[i.imgur.com image 500x432]

That would not be a good idea. Because for them to get me into "legal trouble", they would have to objectively demonstrate I was libeling them. Which would open their business practices and finances up to a discovery. Which would, more than likely, indicate Mark Karples is a damn thief.


Hey, he might well be.  I'm just saying, there are cases now on the books of internet comments getting people's asses sued off...just because it's online, doesn't mean you're immune to slander/libel law.

An additional problem is, even if MtGox WAS a Ponzi scheme...proving the truth of that is an affirmative defense.

Which means the defendant (ie, you, in this hypothetical case) has the burden of proving it...and proving stuff can be HUGELY expensive in a lawsuit against an international corporation.  I'd charge at least U.S. $50k just to start looking at the suit, frankly.

https://www.eff.org/issues/bloggers/legal/liability/defamation
 
2014-03-21 10:35:13 AM  
MtGox seems to have found $116m of their lost bitcoins. Maybe they should virtually check under the virtual cushions of their virtual sofa next?

/ fixing that headline for you.
 
2014-03-21 10:37:06 AM  
www.tickld.com
 
2014-03-21 10:38:01 AM  

iheartscotch: If it's hashed and it has a serial number; there's no way to use the stolen ones. Just depreciate the missing serial numbers and issue new coins in the place of the old.

/ or, would that be too easy?


My guess would be that if there's really a thief (as opposed to the owner making it up - this is a big if), they laundered it and cashed out as they stole it, and are sitting on roughly a billion dollars in real money.

When Sheep Marketplace's anonymous owner said someone stole $100 million of peoples' bitcoins, Redditors traced the coins through transaction ledgers day and night, as they were shuffled and reshuffled to different wallets. It took about a week for them to realize the coins were laundered into a Bitcoin exchange (BTC-E) before they even started looking for them, and what they took to be a thief trying to launder the coins was simply the normal internal workings of a large bitcoin exchange.
 
2014-03-21 10:38:24 AM  

PunGent: Which means the defendant (ie, you, in this hypothetical case) has the burden of proving it...and proving stuff can be HUGELY expensive in a lawsuit against an international corporation.  I'd charge at least U.S. $50k just to start looking at the suit, frankly.


About that:  A public figure must show "actual malice"-that you published with either knowledge of falsity or in reckless disregard for the truth. This is a difficult standard for a plaintiff to meet.From your link.

Whether Mark Karples likes it or not, Mark Karples is a public figure because of the exposure of his exchange, and the events occurring at this present time. I'm simply stating my opinion of the whole situation without any malice intended.
 
2014-03-21 10:38:31 AM  

UNC_Samurai: hardinparamedic: MelGoesOnTour: When are fans of bitcoins finally going to give it up and agree that the test failed. Bitcoin enthusiasts probably still speak Esperanto, too, and are trying to get everyone else "on board".

Most people who are into BitCoins as more than a side hobby are die-hard libertarians who believe it's going to be the BIG THING as soon as the Dollar, Yen, Euro, Pound Sterling, Franc, Deusche Mark, Ruble, and Lira completely collapse on the international market.

It's been hilarious watching the drama, particularly on r/bitcoin, as all these libertarians and anarcho-capitalists start screaming that some authority needs to step in and police the entities that scammed them.  It's like they're learning how financial regulations work, one mistake at a time.


Which is funny considering how many of them love BitCoin because it's not backed by any authority.  And (somehow) it will bring down feminism.  Seriously.
 
2014-03-21 10:41:04 AM  

packman_jon: Which is funny considering how many of them love BitCoin because it's not backed by any authority.  And (somehow) it will bring down feminism.  Seriously.


There is absolutely nothing mentally unstable or irrational about someone who holds that opinion. No siree bob.
 
2014-03-21 10:42:50 AM  

MelGoesOnTour: spawn73: MelGoesOnTour: When are fans of bitcoins finally going to give it up and agree that the test failed. Bitcoin enthusiasts probably still speak Esperanto, too, and are trying to get everyone else "on board".

When are people like you going to give up?

As soon as people like you grow up and stop living in your techno-fantasyland.


I don't think its a fantasy that Bitcoin is an exellent way to make online payments or transferring money.

Though of course, it might be that particular aspect you're objecting too.
 
2014-03-21 10:45:53 AM  

T Baggins: Khellendros: I wonder what they're going to do with their "found" $100M in bitcoins?  I mean, $85M in bitcoins is a lot of money.  I think they should return their found $60M in bitcoins to their rightful owner.  I'm sure they'll be quite happy when you say "here you go, I found your $15M in lost bitcoins!"

This wasn't a regulated bank, or a storage service where you get back the same bitcoins you deposited. Gox distinguished bitcoins that were theirs versus their customers, not which coins belonged to which customers.

Gox is in bankruptcy in Japan and abroad, and assets will probably be distributed to creditors by the courts after a few years of international lawsuits (less than 1% of creditors are in Japan). I'll be curious what they do with bitcoins that Gox was holding in escrow from another failed Bitcoin exchange, pending US court rulings deciding who should get what. It seems kind of insane that a court would have given them to another exchange for safe keeping, when half of them wind up with a pseudonymous owner saying "got hacked, coins gone, kthxbye!".


Can somebody explain why people gave their fake money to somebody else?  Was it too hard to hold all that digital currency in a digital wallet?  What did Gox promise?

None of this makes any sense to me at all.
 
2014-03-21 10:45:59 AM  
Yup.  Because they say so.  This is the most Fiat-Y currency this side of Italy.


encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com
Pictured: Bitcoins.
 
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