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(ABC)   Russia 'bewildered' by US sanctions. "We thought you'd rename Beef Stroganov to Freedom Stew and be done with it"   (abcnews.go.com) divider line 209
    More: Followup, Russia, United States, sanctions, Dmitry Peskov, President Vladimir Putin, commodities trading  
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8869 clicks; posted to Main » on 21 Mar 2014 at 8:16 AM (49 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



209 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2014-03-21 08:58:05 AM  

the_cnidarian: MugzyBrown: What is the legal connection between some of these seemingly non-governmental Russians and being sanctioned for Crimea?

Those sanctions seem inappropriate to me.

The Russian government is more pliable if you punish the oligarchs rather than deprive the people of food, medicine, business etc...

I wonder what would happen if Russia could seperate the Kochs from their money.


I think a lot of people would cheer.

/then grumble about where it went
 
2014-03-21 08:58:36 AM  

lelio: These sanctions plus $3 will get you a cup of coffee. Since when did Putin give a rats ass about public opinion or economic hardship? The only language he understands comes from the barrel of a gun.


Bwhahahahahahahahah! You are a sad caricature of an 80's tough guy, go back to your action movies about "bad" Soviets and leave the discussion to the adults.
 
2014-03-21 08:58:49 AM  

Tricky Chicken: oooo, that'll learn 'em. They will surely cave now that their portfolios took a percentage point hit! That Obama is a bad ass.


The Russian indexes are down 25% since this started.    If the American indexes were down 25%, we'd be in another world recession/financial crises.
 
2014-03-21 08:59:40 AM  

Tatterdemalian: WTF Indeed: Muta: WTF Indeed: It's easy to sanction a government run by a handful of business owners and mob bosses.

It is probably one of the few time when you can target the sanctions to punish the people responsible while not hurting the general population.

Oh it will hurt the general population. Do you really think guys used to buying yachts the size of WWII aircraft carriers are going to say "Well, I've got less money now that I can't do business in the US and EU, so I'll just take less from myself to ensure the population isn't effected."? Hell now, they are going to the gouge the fark out of the general population.

Yes, but nobody's going to care about that until a Republican is president.

/Clinton imposed sanctions on Saddam Hussein
//nobody screamed about sanctions starving Iraqi babies until Dubya was elected
///isn't it great how sanctions can be used as propaganda weapons against both foreign and domestic "enemies?"


You might try some "freedom roulette."
 
2014-03-21 09:03:41 AM  

Tricky Chicken: Ok, why is the news covering the missing airplane so much more than the Ukraine? I get hours of 'we still don't know anything about the flight' interrupted with one liners about major developments about Ukraine.


Because a piece of shiat Boeing scattered all over the ocean is less embarrassing than the revelation that there are countries we're afraid to terrorize with bombs and missiles.
The world already knows we can't build airplanes. But if someone stands up to a bully and the bully backs down, the bully is going to have to pay a lot more for bananas and coffee beans. And wouldn't it be interesting if the bully's new found energy independence is revealed to be a lot of bluff at the same time.

So yeah, better find that plane. Maybe the next American Idol winner is on board, alive and well.
 
2014-03-21 09:05:18 AM  

Slaves2Darkness: Tricky Chicken: Ok, why is the news covering the missing airplane so much more than the Ukraine? I get hours of 'we still don't know anything about the flight' interrupted with one liners about major developments about Ukraine.

Because the Ukraine issue is a complex geo-political economic issue that has no clear "good guy" and no clear "winner".  The missing plane is an easy issue and fascinates the mouth breathing portion of our population. Where as Ukraine just confuses them, because really who cares what one group of commies does to another group of commies.


But even on a simple view of the amount of available content, It makes no sense.  They are filling hour upon hour about the plane saying the exact same level of nothing. It is missing and we are still looking can only be rephrased so many times.

But there have been loads of developments in Ukraine. There are history angles to explore, demographic differences in the area to examine. Resource availability to discuss. Local military capability to explain. Geographic importance to point out. I havent heard a wit about the charge of the light brigade, and I am wearing a cardigan right now.

Ukraine seems to be a much more rich topic to explore.
 
2014-03-21 09:07:42 AM  

Epic Fap Session: And Fark Independents continue to root for the US to fail.

Stay classy


When the US gave the finger to the world and sanity and invaded Iraq, I was against it. But I never actively rooted for the US to fail. Are you telling me that the people who called me traitor, plastered their cars with magnets and flags and hated my existence are against our Government's decisions now?
 
2014-03-21 09:09:21 AM  
Once again, Obama plays patty-cake while Global Chessmaster Putin consolidates his ranks into a formidable front of oil oligarchs and gargantuan gas investments.  Obama's hippie hatred of freedom fracking has imperiled our allies and emboldened the enemy.  Libutardo libulardos are outmatched by my awesomely alliterative righteously right right-wing talking points!
 
2014-03-21 09:09:32 AM  

RevCarter: the term you're looking for is "Caucasian"


You do know where the Caucasus region is, right?
 
2014-03-21 09:10:00 AM  

drjekel_mrhyde: Damn! My [img.fark.net image 850x640]hopes of flying this are over


The AN-225 is actually owned by a Ukrainian government-owned corporation.
 
2014-03-21 09:10:51 AM  

incendi: RevCarter: the term you're looking for is "Caucasian"

You do know where the Caucasus region is, right?


In the pelvis?
 
2014-03-21 09:11:06 AM  

WTF Indeed: Muta: WTF Indeed: It's easy to sanction a government run by a handful of business owners and mob bosses.

It is probably one of the few time when you can target the sanctions to punish the people responsible while not hurting the general population.

Oh it will hurt the general population. Do you really think guys used to buying yachts the size of WWII aircraft carriers are going to say "Well, I've got less money now that I can't do business in the US and EU, so I'll just take less from myself to ensure the population isn't effected."? Hell now, they are going to the gouge the fark out of the general population.


Agreed. However it does add to the weight of propaganda the Russia is weighing itself down with. These noble patriots aren't willing to shoulder the burden of their actions, instead choosing tiny giraffes over hard working Russians, so they have to dedicate time and resources to deflecting the blame that would naturally come to them. That takes away from time and resources doing other things, adds a layer of frustration on the top end and generally makes everyone miserable.

Will it work? That depends on Russians. So who the hell knows?
 
2014-03-21 09:11:11 AM  

Tricky Chicken: Ukraine seems to be a much more rich topic to explore.


I'm pretty sure they haven't had any actual researchers on staff in a few years. If an unpaid intern can't google it, it's too complicated.
 
2014-03-21 09:12:13 AM  

Tricky Chicken: Slaves2Darkness: Tricky Chicken: Ok, why is the news covering the missing airplane so much more than the Ukraine? I get hours of 'we still don't know anything about the flight' interrupted with one liners about major developments about Ukraine.

Because the Ukraine issue is a complex geo-political economic issue that has no clear "good guy" and no clear "winner".  The missing plane is an easy issue and fascinates the mouth breathing portion of our population. Where as Ukraine just confuses them, because really who cares what one group of commies does to another group of commies.

But even on a simple view of the amount of available content, It makes no sense.  They are filling hour upon hour about the plane saying the exact same level of nothing. It is missing and we are still looking can only be rephrased so many times.

But there have been loads of developments in Ukraine. There are history angles to explore, demographic differences in the area to examine. Resource availability to discuss. Local military capability to explain. Geographic importance to point out. I havent heard a wit about the charge of the light brigade, and I am wearing a cardigan right now.

Ukraine seems to be a much more rich topic to explore.


He already said "because people are stupid." Stop questioning him, or you'll be labeled stupid too.
 
2014-03-21 09:13:06 AM  
As usually I see a lot of conservatives biatching and criticizing. Not seeing a lot of suggestions for alternatives.

If you guys are so gung-ho to go to war, then stop being pussies and come right out and admit it.
 
2014-03-21 09:13:33 AM  
Let's face it, unless the sanctions hit the billionaire mobsters running the country directly, they won't give a flip.
 
2014-03-21 09:14:25 AM  

macadamnut: Tricky Chicken: Ok, why is the news covering the missing airplane so much more than the Ukraine? I get hours of 'we still don't know anything about the flight' interrupted with one liners about major developments about Ukraine.

Because a piece of shiat Boeing scattered all over the ocean is less embarrassing than the revelation that there are countries we're afraid to terrorize with bombs and missiles.
The world already knows we can't build airplanes. But if someone stands up to a bully and the bully backs down, the bully is going to have to pay a lot more for bananas and coffee beans. And wouldn't it be interesting if the bully's new found energy independence is revealed to be a lot of bluff at the same time.

So yeah, better find that plane. Maybe the next American Idol winner is on board, alive and well.


International geopolitics isn't the same as a schoolyard. This isn't a revelation, no two Great Powers have directly fought since WWII and none of them want to fight each other directly now as history typically has both parties in such a fight lose economic and political standing for at least 50 years after. Modern wars between major political players are fought more with money and information than soldiers and guns. The costs are too great.
 
2014-03-21 09:14:41 AM  

RevCarter: the term you're looking for is "Caucasian"


Dangnangit.  You're right, of course.  (I haven't committed the whole movie to memory like most people have.)
 
2014-03-21 09:15:46 AM  

Smeggy Smurf: Epic Fap Session: And Fark Independents continue to root for the US to fail.

Stay classy

Rock bottom baby.  Gotta hit it first before you can build yourself back up


Thank you for being honest. I guess a global economic crash and the largest recession since the Great Depression weren't "rock bottom" enough for you since Republican policies during a Republican Administration caused it.

COUNTRY FIRST!
 
2014-03-21 09:16:16 AM  

Tyrone Slothrop: I think they're bewildered that we think sanctions will have any influence on Putin.

/so am I


The MICEX index has basically wiped about 70+ billion dollars worth of value off of the American markets.

The 2% projected GDP increase has basically been wiped out - it is likely that 2014 will see no GDP increase and stay flat, or even a mild decline.

Bank Rossiya, which handles banking for many of Russia's oligarchs and handles Gazprom's pensions, has been frozen out of most international transactions.

Bank Rossiya and another Russia bank no longer have access to Visa and Mastercard to handle credit card transactions, so hundreds of thousands of Russians can no longer use their bank cards or ATMs.

The Russian Ruble dropped almost 10% against the dollar, which means everything they import is now more expensive than it was.

Standard & Poors and Moody's Analytics have downgraded Russia's investment prospects and credit ratings, which means bonds will cost Russia more and investors will be less likely to invest there.

Foreign investors have already withdrawn nearly 35 billion investment dollars from Russia in the last two weeks and that could increase to something like 50 billion a quarter if the sanctions continue.

Russia lost several weapons contracts with the UK and France, which means they're not going to get the weapons system they need to upgrade their military.

Several of the oligarchs are locked out of their US assets (bank accounts, property, etc.).

In the longer term, if Europe is no longer as sure a market for Russian gas, then they are forced rely on China to conduct business. China will no doubt use the leverage to gouge as cheap a gas price as they can.
 
2014-03-21 09:16:33 AM  

Tatterdemalian: Tricky Chicken: Slaves2Darkness: Tricky Chicken: Ok, why is the news covering the missing airplane so much more than the Ukraine? I get hours of 'we still don't know anything about the flight' interrupted with one liners about major developments about Ukraine.

Because the Ukraine issue is a complex geo-political economic issue that has no clear "good guy" and no clear "winner".  The missing plane is an easy issue and fascinates the mouth breathing portion of our population. Where as Ukraine just confuses them, because really who cares what one group of commies does to another group of commies.

But even on a simple view of the amount of available content, It makes no sense.  They are filling hour upon hour about the plane saying the exact same level of nothing. It is missing and we are still looking can only be rephrased so many times.

But there have been loads of developments in Ukraine. There are history angles to explore, demographic differences in the area to examine. Resource availability to discuss. Local military capability to explain. Geographic importance to point out. I havent heard a wit about the charge of the light brigade, and I am wearing a cardigan right now.

Ukraine seems to be a much more rich topic to explore.

He already said "because people are stupid." Stop questioning him, or you'll be labeled stupid too.


Heh.

The 'average viewer' has a fairly short attention span. Doing anything other than offering simple views on what is going on will cause them to flip the channel. This is what the media outlets fear. This is where the newspaper is still king of. This is where someone needs to figure out how to educate people with their online editions in a way that keeps their attention.
 
2014-03-21 09:16:58 AM  
the Ukraine should vote to annex Russia then have everyone in the western world recognize it

change all the maps to replace Russia with Ukraine
 
2014-03-21 09:17:06 AM  

RexTalionis: The MICEX index has basically wiped about 70+ billion dollars worth of value off of the American Russian markets.


FTFM
 
2014-03-21 09:17:18 AM  

Ker_Thwap: Let's face it, unless the sanctions hit the billionaire mobsters running the country directly, they won't give a flip.


I thought I heard they did sanction a bunch of oligarchs directly... ?
 
2014-03-21 09:18:03 AM  

Tricky Chicken: Slaves2Darkness: Tricky Chicken: Ok, why is the news covering the missing airplane so much more than the Ukraine? I get hours of 'we still don't know anything about the flight' interrupted with one liners about major developments about Ukraine.

Because the Ukraine issue is a complex geo-political economic issue that has no clear "good guy" and no clear "winner".  The missing plane is an easy issue and fascinates the mouth breathing portion of our population. Where as Ukraine just confuses them, because really who cares what one group of commies does to another group of commies.

But even on a simple view of the amount of available content, It makes no sense.  They are filling hour upon hour about the plane saying the exact same level of nothing. It is missing and we are still looking can only be rephrased so many times.

But there have been loads of developments in Ukraine. There are history angles to explore, demographic differences in the area to examine. Resource availability to discuss. Local military capability to explain. Geographic importance to point out. I havent heard a wit about the charge of the light brigade, and I am wearing a cardigan right now.

Ukraine seems to be a much more rich topic to explore.


Forget it Jake, it's Mediatown
 
2014-03-21 09:18:27 AM  

Tatterdemalian: WTF Indeed: Muta: WTF Indeed: It's easy to sanction a government run by a handful of business owners and mob bosses.

It is probably one of the few time when you can target the sanctions to punish the people responsible while not hurting the general population.

Oh it will hurt the general population. Do you really think guys used to buying yachts the size of WWII aircraft carriers are going to say "Well, I've got less money now that I can't do business in the US and EU, so I'll just take less from myself to ensure the population isn't effected."? Hell now, they are going to the gouge the fark out of the general population.

Yes, but nobody's going to care about that until a Republican is president.

/Clinton imposed sanctions on Saddam Hussein
//nobody screamed about sanctions starving Iraqi babies until Dubya was elected
///isn't it great how sanctions can be used as propaganda weapons against both foreign and domestic "enemies?"


Actually I and many other people were very vocal about that.

You see decent people understand bastard behaviour, regardless of who does it.
 
2014-03-21 09:19:55 AM  

RexTalionis: Tyrone Slothrop: I think they're bewildered that we think sanctions will have any influence on Putin.

/so am I

The MICEX index has basically wiped about 70+ billion dollars worth of value off of the American markets.

The 2% projected GDP increase has basically been wiped out - it is likely that 2014 will see no GDP increase and stay flat, or even a mild decline.

Bank Rossiya, which handles banking for many of Russia's oligarchs and handles Gazprom's pensions, has been frozen out of most international transactions.

Bank Rossiya and another Russia bank no longer have access to Visa and Mastercard to handle credit card transactions, so hundreds of thousands of Russians can no longer use their bank cards or ATMs.

The Russian Ruble dropped almost 10% against the dollar, which means everything they import is now more expensive than it was.

Standard & Poors and Moody's Analytics have downgraded Russia's investment prospects and credit ratings, which means bonds will cost Russia more and investors will be less likely to invest there.

Foreign investors have already withdrawn nearly 35 billion investment dollars from Russia in the last two weeks and that could increase to something like 50 billion a quarter if the sanctions continue.

Russia lost several weapons contracts with the UK and France, which means they're not going to get the weapons system they need to upgrade their military.

Several of the oligarchs are locked out of their US assets (bank accounts, property, etc.).

In the longer term, if Europe is no longer as sure a market for Russian gas, then they are forced rely on China to conduct business. China will no doubt use the leverage to gouge as cheap a gas price as they can.


That's soft power, and everyone knows soft power doesn't work!
 
2014-03-21 09:20:01 AM  
I think the sanctions are about the best Obama could do.  It's a shiatty situation.  And I think they have a better than expected chance of effecting change.  Beats going to war, and beats not doing anything.

Epic Fap Session: And Fark Independents continue to root for the US to fail.

Stay classy


This comment is in every thread about Crimea.  Notable absent from every thread about Crimea are comments where Fark independents root for the US to fail.  You guys have really taken your savior's "There are those..." strategy to a whole new level.

Nadie_AZ: When the US gave the finger to the world and sanity and invaded Iraq, I was against it. But I never actively rooted for the US to fail. Are you telling me that the people who called me traitor, plastered their cars with magnets and flags and hated my existence are against our Government's decisions now?


I'm sure this really happened.  Like the Vietnam Vets who were spit on.
 
2014-03-21 09:20:25 AM  

Old enough to know better: As usually I see a lot of conservatives biatching and criticizing. Not seeing a lot of suggestions for alternatives.

If you guys are so gung-ho to go to war, then stop being pussies and come right out and admit it.


The closest I see to them coming out and saying it is the few who are calling for the Ukraine to be fast tracked into NATO, knowing full well that it would drive Putin over the edge. Then Russia fires first and we're fighting a war of Russian aggression.
 
2014-03-21 09:22:30 AM  

WTF Indeed: That's soft power, and everyone knows soft power doesn't work!


On the one hand, no one is intimidated by a flaccid penis. On the other, nobody wants one rubbed all over everything in their fridge, either.
 
2014-03-21 09:23:59 AM  

lelio: These sanctions plus $3 will get you a cup of coffee. Since when did Putin give a rats ass about public opinion or economic hardship? The only language he understands comes from the barrel of a gun.


Except for the fact that many Russian people are wising up to Putin.  1000's protested against the Crimea stuff - barely reported anywhere, but it did happen (and it takes balls to protest in Russia.)

If we reacted militarily too hard/quickly it would enable Putin (not that he needs much motivation) too go hard core, clamp down internally and go big guns externally.  Yes he would lose, but Russia is a big place and it takes waaaaay too long to conquer it.

And of all the nutbags with the potentional to create a nuclear exchange ... this topless, small-dick fark is probably one of the worse we have ever had to worry about (he is very much a shadow of Stalin,in that he doesn't really care about the Russian people just 'Russia'.)
 
2014-03-21 09:25:18 AM  

Techhell: Old enough to know better: As usually I see a lot of conservatives biatching and criticizing. Not seeing a lot of suggestions for alternatives.

If you guys are so gung-ho to go to war, then stop being pussies and come right out and admit it.

The closest I see to them coming out and saying it is the few who are calling for the Ukraine to be fast tracked into NATO, knowing full well that it would drive Putin over the edge. Then Russia fires first and we're fighting a war of Russian aggression.


You seriously think Putin attacks Ukraine simply for joining NATO?
 
2014-03-21 09:25:21 AM  

Nadie_AZ: Tatterdemalian: Tricky Chicken: Slaves2Darkness: Tricky Chicken: Ok, why is the news covering the missing airplane so much more than the Ukraine? I get hours of 'we still don't know anything about the flight' interrupted with one liners about major developments about Ukraine.

Because the Ukraine issue is a complex geo-political economic issue that has no clear "good guy" and no clear "winner".  The missing plane is an easy issue and fascinates the mouth breathing portion of our population. Where as Ukraine just confuses them, because really who cares what one group of commies does to another group of commies.

But even on a simple view of the amount of available content, It makes no sense.  They are filling hour upon hour about the plane saying the exact same level of nothing. It is missing and we are still looking can only be rephrased so many times.

But there have been loads of developments in Ukraine. There are history angles to explore, demographic differences in the area to examine. Resource availability to discuss. Local military capability to explain. Geographic importance to point out. I havent heard a wit about the charge of the light brigade, and I am wearing a cardigan right now.

Ukraine seems to be a much more rich topic to explore.

He already said "because people are stupid." Stop questioning him, or you'll be labeled stupid too.

Heh.

The 'average viewer' has a fairly short attention span. Doing anything other than offering simple views on what is going on will cause them to flip the channel. This is what the media outlets fear. This is where the newspaper is still king of. This is where someone needs to figure out how to educate people with their online editions in a way that keeps their attention.


I just took a look at CNN.com, and they have the plane as the number one story and the Ukraine as a bit smaller secondary story.  So I figured, Fox would be trying to spin the Ukraine as a way to say Obama is looking bad.  But they don't even have the story on their main page.

I'm not saying that I don't feel sorry for those lost on the flight or their families, but the fate of an entire country is being played out before our eyes. I honestly cannot figure out why this is played off as such a non-story.

It isn't affecting black people like Uganda, Rawanda, and Liberia, so that isn't why we are ignoring it this time.
It isn't brown people like we ignored Bolivia.

Wait, they don't have oil. That might be it.
 
2014-03-21 09:25:50 AM  
A guy I work with was born and raised in what was then Leningrad, and moved to the states in 1990, now an American citizen. I was talking to him in the break room about this. He had an interesting take on these sanctions. He said, something like this:

"There's something missing from a lot of the news we're hearing. Both sides won't say. A lot of the wealthy Russians have investments in the same businesses Americans do. They buy American company, stocks, everything. But a lot of wealthy criminal Russians used to be in the mob. They still are mob, but they take crime money and put it in legitimate investments. Not laundering money anymore. The money is too old. But they are still doing tricky things to legitimate stocks and investments like they did with illegal activities. This bothers wealthy Americans, and some Russians. But we do not see mob in the news. If no mention of mob in Russian news, they are involved. Putin gets pressure from wealthy Americans and Russians to stop the mob, but the mob pressures Putin, too. They help him sometimes. The President is probably using sanctions that hurt the mob so Putin will be stuck. Some may even hurt wealthy people secretly working with mob, but they cannot say, so they get mad. They are mad at US, but they want Putin to fix it. Putin cannot fix it without acknowledging mob. He is in trouble."
 
2014-03-21 09:26:00 AM  

incendi: WTF Indeed: That's soft power, and everyone knows soft power doesn't work!

On the one hand, no one is intimidated by a flaccid penis. On the other, nobody wants one rubbed all over everything in their fridge, either.


... uh oh.
 
2014-03-21 09:31:21 AM  

WTF Indeed: It's easy to sanction a government run by a handful of business owners and mob bosses.


This! Just hope we can extract the members of Pussy Riot to a safe country before Iron Curtain II drops.
 
2014-03-21 09:32:13 AM  

FLMountainMan: Nadie_AZ: When the US gave the finger to the world and sanity and invaded Iraq, I was against it. But I never actively rooted for the US to fail. Are you telling me that the people who called me traitor, plastered their cars with magnets and flags and hated my existence are against our Government's decisions now?

I'm sure this really happened. Like the Vietnam Vets who were spit on.



You know, it wasn't that long ago and I certainly remembered people who did make this argument.

"To those who pit Americans against immigrants, and citizens against non-citizens; to those who scare peace-loving people with phantoms of lost liberty; my message is this: Your tactics only aid terrorists - for they erode our national unity and diminish our resolve. They give ammunition to America's enemies, and pause to America's friends. They encourage people of good will to remain silent in the face of evil. "

- John Ashcroft, Testimony before Senate Judiciary Committee, 12/6/2001
http://www.justice.gov/archive/ag/testimony/2001/1206transcriptsenat ej udiciarycommittee.htm

"Going even further, White House communications director Dan Bartlett told the Washington Post Friday that Thursday's statements by Democrats "are exactly what our opponents, our enemies, want us to do." This is the most direct statement by an administration official to date suggesting that dissent aids the enemy."

http://www.salon.com/2002/05/21/dissent_6/
 
2014-03-21 09:32:21 AM  

MugzyBrown: What's to stop Russia from kicking out or nationalizing all of the US businesses in Russia right now? Pepsi, Exxon, etc.

They fund the US gov't (legally and probably illegally).


They might just do that, and I think Pepsi, Exxon would survive as a company. Its happened before (Germany nationalized a bunch of US companies in its borders), its just the price of doing international business.
 
2014-03-21 09:36:00 AM  

FLMountainMan: This comment is in every thread about Crimea. Notable absent from every thread about Crimea are comments where Fark independents root for the US to fail. You guys have really taken your savior's "There are those..." strategy to a whole new level.


Oddly, I seem to recall a lot of Fark Indys such as yourself droning on how weak Obama was, how great and awesome Putin is, how Russia was justified in invading, how Ukraine was selling weapons to the Taliban, how bad the liberals are going to be pissed when their Messiah fails again, etc etc.
 
2014-03-21 09:36:35 AM  

drjekel_mrhyde: Damn! My [img.fark.net image 850x640]hopes of flying this are over


I've been inside one - it's huge but essentially just a big tube - start loading it up though and moving as fast as possible it takes forever.
Glide path of a rock.  What's also impressive is the runway it needs and the fuel it takes.
 
2014-03-21 09:37:06 AM  
To the people who think Obama is a weak leader and is handling this situation poorly, what do you think he should be doing? I'm genuinely curious. What could he do tomorrow that would make you come in here and say "Great job Obama"?
 
2014-03-21 09:42:05 AM  

JoieD'Zen: Will this affect Vodka?

/asking for a friend


Who cares? We make that shiat in Texas these days.

3.bp.blogspot.com
 
2014-03-21 09:44:28 AM  

Satanic_Hamster: FLMountainMan: This comment is in every thread about Crimea. Notable absent from every thread about Crimea are comments where Fark independents root for the US to fail. You guys have really taken your savior's "There are those..." strategy to a whole new level.

Oddly, I seem to recall a lot of Fark Indys such as yourself droning on how weak Obama was, how great and awesome Putin is, how Russia was justified in invading, how Ukraine was selling weapons to the Taliban, how bad the liberals are going to be pissed when their Messiah fails again, etc etc.


And I'm sure you can find those easily, right?  I'm sure it's not just one or two trolls that you've turned into gigantic strawmen.  Because I'm on the record as saying Obama was in a no-win situation and I wouldn't want to trade places with him for anything.  I have mentioned my low opinion of John Kerry as Sec of State, and Obama did hire him, but I don't think Kerry's competence, or lack thereof, has had any impact on the Crimean situation.

I'm actually pleasantly surprised at the severity of the sanctions.  I think it's about the best strategy he could have devised and very commendable.
 
2014-03-21 09:46:17 AM  

birchman: To the people who think Obama is a weak leader and is handling this situation poorly, what do you think he should be doing? I'm genuinely curious. What could he do tomorrow that would make you come in here and say "Great job Obama"?


In before "Step down and let a Real Republican Man be president".
 
2014-03-21 09:46:53 AM  

RexTalionis: FLMountainMan: Nadie_AZ: When the US gave the finger to the world and sanity and invaded Iraq, I was against it. But I never actively rooted for the US to fail. Are you telling me that the people who called me traitor, plastered their cars with magnets and flags and hated my existence are against our Government's decisions now?

I'm sure this really happened. Like the Vietnam Vets who were spit on.


You know, it wasn't that long ago and I certainly remembered people who did make this argument.

"To those who pit Americans against immigrants, and citizens against non-citizens; to those who scare peace-loving people with phantoms of lost liberty; my message is this: Your tactics only aid terrorists - for they erode our national unity and diminish our resolve. They give ammunition to America's enemies, and pause to America's friends. They encourage people of good will to remain silent in the face of evil. "

- John Ashcroft, Testimony before Senate Judiciary Committee, 12/6/2001
http://www.justice.gov/archive/ag/testimony/2001/1206transcriptsenat ej udiciarycommittee.htm

"Going even further, White House communications director Dan Bartlett told the Washington Post Friday that Thursday's statements by Democrats "are exactly what our opponents, our enemies, want us to do." This is the most direct statement by an administration official to date suggesting that dissent aids the enemy."

http://www.salon.com/2002/05/21/dissent_6/


Fair enough.  You mean politicians' have called people with your same position on that issue "traitors".  And that offended you.  You've not personally been called a traitor. And FWIW, you never said you had been, I just interpreted it that way.
 
2014-03-21 09:49:41 AM  

birchman: To the people who think Obama is a weak leader and is handling this situation poorly, what do you think he should be doing? I'm genuinely curious. What could he do tomorrow that would make you come in here and say "Great job Obama"?


He needs to show strength and not weakness.  He needs to show leadership.  Putin has seen how Obama BOWS to our enemies and Putin has taken note.

Also, would it kill Obama to wrestle a wolverine with his shirt off?  I would also accept a badger, but a raccoon is completely unacceptable.
 
2014-03-21 09:50:18 AM  

FLMountainMan:

This comment is in every thread about Crimea.  Notable absent from every thread about Crimea are comments where Fark independents root for the US to fail.  You guys have really taken your savior's "There are those..." strategy to a whole new level.




DRINK.


Frikkin' tard.
 
2014-03-21 09:52:04 AM  

Laobaojun: The sanctions will unify Russia


You really need to read up on Russia's demographics.
 
2014-03-21 09:52:18 AM  

cameroncrazy1984: Techhell: Old enough to know better: As usually I see a lot of conservatives biatching and criticizing. Not seeing a lot of suggestions for alternatives.

If you guys are so gung-ho to go to war, then stop being pussies and come right out and admit it.

The closest I see to them coming out and saying it is the few who are calling for the Ukraine to be fast tracked into NATO, knowing full well that it would drive Putin over the edge. Then Russia fires first and we're fighting a war of Russian aggression.

You seriously think Putin attacks Ukraine simply for joining NATO?


Not particularly, but that's the impression I get from the chickenhawks on Fark.

Personally I wouldn't be surprised to find a group of questionable Russian military (like those anonymous gunmen in Crimea who weren't/aren't Russian military wink wink) didn't read between the lines deeply enough and actually fired on NATO forces in the Ukraine. Particularly if there are disputed places like Strilkov and Russian forces have to move through NATO controlled territory for resupply.

Not to say I expect it, but if things are going to hit a shooting war between NATO and Russia, that's where I would look for it to start.
 
2014-03-21 09:52:26 AM  

FLMountainMan: RexTalionis: FLMountainMan: Nadie_AZ: When the US gave the finger to the world and sanity and invaded Iraq, I was against it. But I never actively rooted for the US to fail. Are you telling me that the people who called me traitor, plastered their cars with magnets and flags and hated my existence are against our Government's decisions now?

I'm sure this really happened. Like the Vietnam Vets who were spit on.


You know, it wasn't that long ago and I certainly remembered people who did make this argument.

"To those who pit Americans against immigrants, and citizens against non-citizens; to those who scare peace-loving people with phantoms of lost liberty; my message is this: Your tactics only aid terrorists - for they erode our national unity and diminish our resolve. They give ammunition to America's enemies, and pause to America's friends. They encourage people of good will to remain silent in the face of evil. "

- John Ashcroft, Testimony before Senate Judiciary Committee, 12/6/2001
http://www.justice.gov/archive/ag/testimony/2001/1206transcriptsenat ej udiciarycommittee.htm

"Going even further, White House communications director Dan Bartlett told the Washington Post Friday that Thursday's statements by Democrats "are exactly what our opponents, our enemies, want us to do." This is the most direct statement by an administration official to date suggesting that dissent aids the enemy."

http://www.salon.com/2002/05/21/dissent_6/

Fair enough.  You mean politicians' have called people with your same position on that issue "traitors".  And that offended you.  You've not personally been called a traitor. And FWIW, you never said you had been, I just interpreted it that way.


I was not called a traitor, personally, because at the time, I was much younger and much more conservative.

However, I certainly remember that the charge that being against Bush's war on terror policies means one is a traitor being leveled in the lower levels of public discourse - for instance, on the internet (on Fark, actually, as I recall, by some) and other venues, or in private conversations or protests or whatever.

Also, if you look at John Ashcroft's statement to the Senate Judiciary committee, he was clearly indicating that if you do have those opinions, then you are aiding terrorists and give ammunition to America's enemies. That's clearly being called a traitor.
 
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