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(Slate)   Not only is there still no cure for cancer, leading cancer hospitals are now going in for arrant horseshiat like reflexology and reiki. Still no cure for people who think ear candling and oil pulling will do the trick because they saw it on The View   (slate.com) divider line 74
    More: Stupid, cure for cancer, ear candling, evidence-based medicine, hospitals, PubMed, therapy dog, tricks, psychological testing  
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1014 clicks; posted to Geek » on 21 Mar 2014 at 10:23 AM (40 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-03-21 05:57:48 AM  
I am a survivor of cancer and chemo. I still get a chuckle when I remember some of the things that were suggested to me in lieu of that "nasty chemo that you don't need". My favorite- a shot of gin every day and 12 raisins.

And this stuff was from people I thought were somewhat well grounded.
 
2014-03-21 07:51:36 AM  

mr_a: My favorite- a shot of gin every day and 12 raisins.


That's only a preventive measure.
 
2014-03-21 08:32:29 AM  
If this is being offered in lieu of treatment, then I could muster up enough energy to raise an eyebrow.  If this is something to take the edge off grueling chemo or to make a dire case feel just a little bit better during the day, divide the f*cks I give by 0.
 
2014-03-21 09:01:20 AM  

thamike: If this is being offered in lieu of treatment, then I could muster up enough energy to raise an eyebrow.  If this is something to take the edge off grueling chemo or to make a dire case feel just a little bit better during the day, divide the f*cks I give by 0.


Ever wonder why healthcare premiums are higher. Here's just one reason.
 
2014-03-21 09:02:24 AM  

stpauler: thamike: If this is being offered in lieu of treatment, then I could muster up enough energy to raise an eyebrow.  If this is something to take the edge off grueling chemo or to make a dire case feel just a little bit better during the day, divide the f*cks I give by 0.

Ever wonder why healthcare premiums are higher. Here's just one reason.


Shallow end.  Go play in it.
 
2014-03-21 09:10:34 AM  

thamike: If this is being offered in lieu of treatment, then I could muster up enough energy to raise an eyebrow.  If this is something to take the edge off grueling chemo or to make a dire case feel just a little bit better during the day, divide the f*cks I give by 0.


Creating false hope with sham treatments and playing on the placebo effect is pretty unethical. And many of the practitioners of these crank treatments encourage people to do things which can either interfere with chemotherapy, or try to get people to not do it altogether.
 
2014-03-21 09:17:01 AM  

thamike: stpauler: thamike: If this is being offered in lieu of treatment, then I could muster up enough energy to raise an eyebrow.  If this is something to take the edge off grueling chemo or to make a dire case feel just a little bit better during the day, divide the f*cks I give by 0.

Ever wonder why healthcare premiums are higher. Here's just one reason.

Shallow end.  Go play in it.


media.giphy.com
 
2014-03-21 10:30:11 AM  

hardinparamedic: thamike: If this is being offered in lieu of treatment, then I could muster up enough energy to raise an eyebrow.  If this is something to take the edge off grueling chemo or to make a dire case feel just a little bit better during the day, divide the f*cks I give by 0.


Creating false hope with sham treatments and playing on the placebo effect is pretty unethical. And many of the practitioners of these crank treatments encourage people to do things which can either interfere with chemotherapy, or try to get people to not do it altogether.


This. It has mostly been driven by patient demand though, and it is hard sometimes to fault the hospitals. From their point of view they would rather have the patient there than not at all, but I think it sets up a false sense of approval for patients.

Unfortunately "alt" practitioners win in patient's perception of being more "holistic", better communication with the patient, etc. It is something actual medical practitioners do need to get better at. You would actually see results by having say, massage therapists employed at the hospital in order to help chemo patients feel better.
 
2014-03-21 10:35:40 AM  

hardinparamedic: thamike: If this is being offered in lieu of treatment, then I could muster up enough energy to raise an eyebrow.  If this is something to take the edge off grueling chemo or to make a dire case feel just a little bit better during the day, divide the f*cks I give by 0.

Creating false hope with sham treatments and playing on the placebo effect is pretty unethical. And many of the practitioners of these crank treatments encourage people to do things which can either interfere with chemotherapy, or try to get people to not do it altogether.


There's a reason it's called the placebo "effect". Yes, the ethics are incredibly tricky (as are the mechanics of working out exactly where the "effect" comes from, and using it to effect without crossing The Line), but so long as conventional (known-to-be-effective) treatments are used side by side, I will contribute exactly zero farks.

// mom works in clinical trials of (e.g.) meditation for PTSD, acupuncture for pain - some of the writeups show more than just a psychological effect (but that's admittedly dealing with a focus on The Mind for treating mental health)
// brother getting his Master's in ...something about anatomy (but I know there's a focus on the Placebo Effect, which he will be studying at NIH over the summer)
// fascinating stuff, and it's by no means a simple phenomenon - so why not exploit it where we can (importantly, used in conjunction with conventional, known-to-be-effective treatments)?
 
2014-03-21 10:37:11 AM  

ear candling and oil pulling



What an oil pull might look like:

pioneersteamandgas.com
 
2014-03-21 10:38:50 AM  

entropic_existence: Unfortunately "alt" practitioners win in patient's perception of being more "holistic", better communication with the patient, etc.



Reading people and good communication skills are crucial to being a good con-artist.
 
2014-03-21 10:39:44 AM  
The real reason all these things are being offered at cancer centers (and the existence of cancer centers in the first place) is that patients are willing to fork over big bucks for them.  Those places are absolutely 100% NOT about patient care.  They're about making a lot of rich people a lot richer off the pain and suffering of victims of cancer.

Go read up on some of the stuff out there about the various brands of cancer centers.  It'll seriously piss you off.
 
2014-03-21 10:47:57 AM  

Dr Dreidel: so why not exploit it where we can (importantly, used in conjunction with conventional, known-to-be-effective treatments)?


Because most of the exploitation in current use tends to involve the "NorSaline for pain" type of situation, where indicated medications are withheld because of provider bias.
 
2014-03-21 11:01:50 AM  
Oil pulling just seems like it would give you cavities and that's it. Not to mention how much more expensive coconut oil is than a tube of toothpaste.
 
2014-03-21 11:03:02 AM  

hardinparamedic: Dr Dreidel: so why not exploit it where we can (importantly, used in conjunction with conventional, known-to-be-effective treatments)?

Because most of the exploitation in current use tends to involve the "NorSaline for pain" type of situation, where indicated medications are withheld because of provider bias.


1 + 1 = 2
HA! "1 + 1 = 2" isn't true when you're missing a 1!

Yes, precisely. If you withhold effective treatment, for whatever bias, in favor of placebo treatments, you are not a good provider of healthcare.

If you use placebo treatments IN CONJUNCTION WITH CONVENTIONAL (KNOWN-TO-BE-EFFECTIVE) MEDICINE, it can be a good thing.

Chemo + meditation = happier patients showing fewer signs of the discomfort chemo causes in "control" groups (we know, for example, that meditation can release the anti-stress hormone*).
Meditation only = what are you, some kind of sadist?

*I forget the name. Dopamine?
 
2014-03-21 11:11:11 AM  

The My Little Pony Killer: Oil pulling just seems like it would give you cavities and that's it. Not to mention how much more expensive coconut oil is than a tube of toothpaste.


Despite submitter using a bunch of words instead of stamping their feet and screaming "WOO! WOO! WOO!" like a child, there are some benefits to oil pulling. How much there is is a different story:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21525674
 
2014-03-21 11:12:00 AM  

tillerman35: The real reason all these things are being offered at cancer centers (and the existence of cancer centers in the first place) is that patients are willing to fork over big bucks for them.  Those places are absolutely 100% NOT about patient care.  They're about making a lot of rich people a lot richer off the pain and suffering of victims of cancer.

Go read up on some of the stuff out there about the various brands of cancer centers.  It'll seriously piss you off.


If you are talking about the 'diagnosed somewhere? Come here! We will 'check' your diagnosis and tell you we can fix it with whatever' scam clinics, then I think the article is about actual cancer treatment specialty facilities. Not 'we offer alternative medicine' places.
 
2014-03-21 11:13:41 AM  
I have done oil pulling using coconut or sesame oil.  I did it because someone told me it helped them with eczema, which I get mildly in the winter. It actually worked for me and there was a somewhat positive effect on my teeth, though not enough I would do it just for that.  You use so little oil that it costs very little to do.

I read on some of the sites that people used it as a cancer cure, but that seems ridiculous.  I could see  as a toxin release from chemo maybe.  Even that seems like a mosquito trying to stop a bull though.
 
2014-03-21 11:16:28 AM  

Row1Boston: I have done oil pulling using coconut or sesame oil.  I did it because someone told me it helped them with eczema, which I get mildly in the winter. It actually worked for me and there was a somewhat positive effect on my teeth, though not enough I would do it just for that.  You use so little oil that it costs very little to do.

I read on some of the sites that people used it as a cancer cure, but that seems ridiculous.  I could see  as a toxin release from chemo maybe.  Even that seems like a mosquito trying to stop a bull though.


Exactly. Can it do some of the things it can do? Yes. Can it do everything? No. Experimenting and verifying results is part of the method.
 
2014-03-21 11:18:04 AM  
*Yawn* New-age versions of "pray away the cancer".
 
2014-03-21 11:22:04 AM  

Dr Dreidel: hardinparamedic: thamike: If this is being offered in lieu of treatment, then I could muster up enough energy to raise an eyebrow.  If this is something to take the edge off grueling chemo or to make a dire case feel just a little bit better during the day, divide the f*cks I give by 0.

Creating false hope with sham treatments and playing on the placebo effect is pretty unethical. And many of the practitioners of these crank treatments encourage people to do things which can either interfere with chemotherapy, or try to get people to not do it altogether.

There's a reason it's called the placebo "effect". Yes, the ethics are incredibly tricky (as are the mechanics of working out exactly where the "effect" comes from, and using it to effect without crossing The Line), but so long as conventional (known-to-be-effective) treatments are used side by side, I will contribute exactly zero farks.

// mom works in clinical trials of (e.g.) meditation for PTSD, acupuncture for pain - some of the writeups show more than just a psychological effect (but that's admittedly dealing with a focus on The Mind for treating mental health)
// brother getting his Master's in ...something about anatomy (but I know there's a focus on the Placebo Effect, which he will be studying at NIH over the summer)
// fascinating stuff, and it's by no means a simple phenomenon - so why not exploit it where we can (importantly, used in conjunction with conventional, known-to-be-effective treatments)?


You should give a fark. What could the harm possibly be of using quack medicine side by side with real medicine? Funny you should ask - there's a great website for that: http://whatstheharm.net/
 
2014-03-21 11:23:44 AM  
Ever hear the fever cures cancer theory ?
Early 1900 stuff
 
2014-03-21 11:31:51 AM  
As a Reiki 2 non-practicing Practitioner, I can honestly tell you it's a bunch of horseshiat.

However, the hospitals I am familiar with that have Reiki available aren't using it as treatment, but offering it if patients want it, as it apparently makes some people feel better.  Probably just the 'human caring' factor, which is very real.

The folks telling you it can cure cancer are the real quacks.
 
2014-03-21 11:33:35 AM  

Row1Boston: toxin release


If only our bodies were able to release toxins without needing to swish oil around in our mouths!
 
2014-03-21 11:36:21 AM  
During my chemo sessions, the Reiki massage girl who came around was pretty cute. When I didn't feel like vomiting, I let her massage away.  I did feel better in the way that someone who 6'4" sitting in a recliner made for a 5'6" person who just got a massage feels.  So there was that.
 
2014-03-21 11:37:21 AM  
Reiki is totally legit.  I saw this old man cure this kids busted leg once in just a few minutes.

img.fark.net
 
2014-03-21 11:43:52 AM  

Earl of Chives: You should give a fark. What could the harm possibly be of using quack medicine side by side with real medicine? Funny you should ask - there's a great website for that: http://whatstheharm.net/


No thanks. I'll rely on the NIH and other peer-reviewed articles (those published in peer-reviewed journals, and by people with real medical degrees like MDs, RNs, PAs, etc).

Again, when used IN CONJUNCTION WITH (in concert with, in addition to, as an adjunct to, combined with, blended with - pick a synonymous term you like) conventional medicine, it has absolutely been shown to have benefits (shorter stays, better affect, lower reported pain, etc).

It's why they run clinical trials and submit to peer review, just like they would any other science.
 
2014-03-21 11:44:31 AM  

Earl of Chives: there's a great website for that: http://whatstheharm.net/


So why doesn't that site cover Christianity under the Religion section?
 
2014-03-21 11:45:09 AM  
My FIL was diagnosed with Pancreatic Cancer back in October of 2012.  The amount of shiat that people told him that would help with his cancer was absolutely insane.  He's been somewhat "lucky" in that his tumor has shrunk, is now staying the same size, and hasn't really spread.  It's almost been 18 mos. since his diagnosis and we realize that he has been very lucky.

Anyhow, my brother in law tried to force "veggie shakes" down him (BIL still takes them) and early on with these mushroom drops (apparently, they are supposed to help with chemo.. who knows).  He had lost so much weight early on that my take was "hey, fark this healthy stuff.. how about we make him stuff that he wants to eat that are calorie bombs?"  My wife was making him stuff like biscuits and gravy back then.  Now that everything has stabilized, he is back to being more conscious about his eating habits (especially since he has type 2 diabetes because of the tumor). I read a bunch of posts on a PC listserv thing and the vast majority of the people who had lost or were in the process of losing loved ones were like "screw the healthy diet stuff, it won't help anyways in the long run"

But still, the shiat people try to push on you when someone is diagnosed is crazy.
 
2014-03-21 11:56:39 AM  

mr_a: I am a survivor of cancer and chemo. I still get a chuckle when I remember some of the things that were suggested to me in lieu of that "nasty chemo that you don't need". My favorite- a shot of gin every day and 12 raisins.

And this stuff was from people I thought were somewhat well grounded.


Like my doctor says: "People are idiots"
 
2014-03-21 11:56:59 AM  

GoldSpider: *Yawn* New-age versions of "pray away the cancer".


That one's still around. Just as effective too.
 
2014-03-21 12:00:37 PM  
Just read a fantastic (and terrifying and infuriating) book on this subject called "Do You Believe In Magic". Highly recommended. As many here have said, if offered in conjunction with REAL medicine and it makes the sufferer happier, great.

/on phone, no linkey
 
2014-03-21 12:01:25 PM  
In related news, the Maryland General Assembly is voting to institute a licensing board for "Naturopathic Medicine." Already made it through the House, Senate is close to a vote. We get the government we deserve.

Dr Dreidel: No thanks. I'll rely on the NIH and other peer-reviewed articles (those published in peer-reviewed journals, and by people with real medical degrees like MDs, RNs, PAs, etc).


I can't take the time to read all of the citations on that page, but one red flag jumps out at me: All of those citations are in CAM journals or books, which makes the "peer review" aspect suspect. My experience when reading research from CAM journals has been that the authors tend to oversell the results, and then end up either not understanding or outright abusing statistical significance and sample size. That's assuming you can find proper controls, too.

Dr Dreidel: so why not exploit it where we can (importantly, used in conjunction with conventional, known-to-be-effective treatments)?


If for no other reason, than because asking people to spend a  lotof money on useless treatments is unethical.
 
2014-03-21 12:13:38 PM  

Dr Dreidel: Again, when used IN CONJUNCTION WITH (in concert with, in addition to, as an adjunct to, combined with, blended with - pick a synonymous term you like) conventional medicine, it has absolutely been shown to have benefits (shorter stays, better affect, lower reported pain, etc).


You do realize that all of the sources from your links have been from journals that are low impact, non peer reviewed, or are in single issue journals that are dedicated to CAM.

Cite a high impact, peer reviewed study which shows any benefit with the end-measures you stated in your post from any form of complementary and alternative medicine.

And, as a fun bonus, there are QUITE A FEW of those people with actual "healthcare degrees" who believe that the NCCAM is a waste of funding, and exists only due to the legislative astroturfing and campaign funding of certain senators and congressmen by the alternative medicine and vitamin/supplement industry.
 
2014-03-21 12:17:56 PM  
You'd be surprised how many health insurance companies are starting to cover "alternative" medicine.  It's a joke but that's what people want.
 
2014-03-21 12:18:57 PM  
What the ferk is oil pulling?

*Google'd!*

"Oil pulling is a safe, simple, cheap and gentle procedure who's benefits" --

Stoppedreadingthere.jpg
 
2014-03-21 12:23:41 PM  
tap tap tap!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=47sxO-kNYz4

/wtf
//i'd tap dat ass
///triple tap slashie
 
2014-03-21 12:27:43 PM  

hstein3: If for no other reason, than because asking people to spend a lotof money on useless treatments is unethical.


No argument there.

However, the demonstrated effects of placebos undercut the "useless" argument. While it's certainly unethical (and I've said as much) to charge for a "real" treatment while actually providing a placebo, or to use a CAM/sham/placebo treatment in place of an indicated conventional treatment, strategic use of placebo, and CAM, as supplemental treatments - CHOSEN by patients who give informed consent* - has already been shown to reduce length of stays.

We should also understand that "placebo" doesn't always mean "sugar pill". Giving someone an aspirin to treat muscle cramps, for example, might be called a "placebo" in a trial where ibuprofen is used as the "real" treatment (aspirin is generally ineffective at treating cramps, according to wiki; while ibuprofen is the indicated treatment).

(Bear in mind, this is not my field. I happen to know a bit about it because I talk to my family, but I'm no authority.)

hardinparamedic: And, as a fun bonus, there are QUITE A FEW of those people with actual "healthcare degrees" who believe that the NCCAM is a waste of funding, and exists only due to the legislative astroturfing and campaign funding of certain senators and congressmen by the alternative medicine and vitamin/supplement industry.


OK? There's also abuse of NIST and NOAA ("Don't study climate!") programs as well. Garbage in, garbage out, Vote Science.

Oh, and as soon as peer review starts showing that these treatments are no better than doing nothing (not "using a placebo"), I will advocate against their clinical use even as adjunct therapy.

There is also a huge breadth of treatments, "treatments", and interventions covered by CAM. Some are pure woo-woo, some are not. Rather than get lost in the weeds, I'm gonna have lunch.

* Yes, this would prevent certain placebo trials, as fully informing someone that "this is a sugar pill" kills its use as placebo.
 
2014-03-21 12:28:31 PM  

mr_a: I am a survivor of cancer and chemo. I still get a chuckle when I remember some of the things that were suggested to me in lieu of that "nasty chemo that you don't need". My favorite- a shot of gin every day and 12 raisins.

And this stuff was from people I thought were somewhat well grounded.


I have heard that golden raisins soaked in gin were good for arthritis or something like that, but cancer??
 
2014-03-21 12:34:15 PM  

Dr Dreidel: OK? There's also abuse of NIST and NOAA ("Don't study climate!") programs as well. Garbage in, garbage out, Vote Science.


Unlike the NIST and NOAA, the majority of the studies in the NCCAM either are being terminated because the patients are doing far worse than they would even with no treatment (Making a starving and malnourished cancer patient is a bad idea, who knew, right?), end up showing no efficacy, or end up showing inconclusive data.

There is no GIGO when all that is being processed IS garbage.

Dr Dreidel: Oh, and as soon as peer review starts showing that these treatments are no better than doing nothing (not "using a placebo"), I will advocate against their clinical use even as adjunct therapy.


You're advocating for an unethical behavior because there is not evidence of direct, obvious harm in the cherry-picked situations you have described? Really?

There is NOTHING ethical about lying to a patient about a syringe containing saline or sugar water. There is NOTHING ethical about selling a sugar pill to a patient for 70 dollars and telling them it'll treat their pain. There is NOTHING ethical about saying that Reiki and "Touch Therapy" will increase their chances of surviving cancer.

Again. Show me proof of what you're stating, even ignoring the unethical implications.

Dr Dreidel: There is also a huge breadth of treatments, "treatments", and interventions covered by CAM. Some are pure woo-woo, some are not. Rather than get lost in the weeds, I'm gonna have lunch.

* Yes, this would prevent certain placebo trials, as fully informing someone that "this is a sugar pill" kills its use as placebo.


Which ones are not Woo?
 
2014-03-21 12:36:15 PM  
"Arrant horseshiat".

Nice one, Subby.
 
2014-03-21 01:26:47 PM  
Oh, and just to add.. for my FIL, the most effective "alternative treatment" for his chemo has been Spaghetti the day after.  He says the acid in the sauce gets rid of the nasty taste in his mouth* so we have had spaghetti twice a month for almost 2 years now.

* My Aunt tells me that the nasty chemo taste never goes away.  She is a breast cancer survivor and has been in remission since the late 90s or so.  She lives in WA (we live in SoCal) but the stuff she asks me about my FIL have been 1000x more realistic than anyone else.  A while back, she told me that she still chews gum because the nasty taste from chemo never goes away and she didn't chew gum before her diagnosis.

**  On a sidenote, it amazes how well my grandparents (mostly my grandma) raised 7 kids.  5 of the 7 of them are well grounded folks (my aunts have been awesome with my kids) aside from my Uncle and my Mom (and even so, my Mom is a great grandma.. she just sucked at being a Mom for me).
 
2014-03-21 01:30:38 PM  
I'm currently getting chemo at the University of Pennsylvania for stage 4 lymphoma.  When I went through radiation, they offered reiki, not in lieu of treatment, but as something you could do in lieu of sitting in the waiting room.  While the "massage" they offer is complete and utter bullshiat, the 20 minute power-nap that I got to take with the new-agey music was veryy therapeutic.

When they do the whole hand waving thing over you, it looks like they're trying to do a magic trick where nothing happens.
 
2014-03-21 01:34:57 PM  

Earl of Chives: You should give a fark. What could the harm possibly be of using quack medicine side by side with real medicine? Funny you should ask - there's a great website for that: http://whatstheharm.net/


Wow, there is some weapons-grade derp on that site.
 
2014-03-21 01:47:54 PM  
Wife of Hedge Fund Billionaire:  Can you start an Integrative Medicine program

Top Cancer Hospital:  Get bent

Wife of Hedge Fund Billionaire:  What if I cut you a check?

Top Cancer Hospital:  $$ Ka-Ching $$

Paul McCartney gave Memorial Sloan-Kettering (#1 in world, essentially) an endowment to fund non-animal alternative research.
 
2014-03-21 01:59:36 PM  
I've learned about a movement at the fringes of the medical community called "Practice based evidence".

Maybe I've misread what it is, but to me it is directly incorporating non-evidence based treatments, like shamanism, reiki, reflexology, etc., to try and get better results with evidence based practices.
 
2014-03-21 02:25:13 PM  
hacking the placebo effect is the future of medicine.
 
2014-03-21 02:27:23 PM  

meat0918: I've learned about a movement at the fringes of the medical community called "Practice based evidence".

Maybe I've misread what it is, but to me it is directly incorporating non-evidence based treatments, like shamanism, reiki, reflexology, etc., to try and get better results with evidence based practices.


It's essentially the notion that the community as a whole that is being served by a practitioner should sanction treatments for disease based on their cultural mores and taboos.

So, if the community thinks that a kid with cancer will get better if a witch doctor stands over him and does some silly chants, well, hell, let's do that, fark the chemo that cured those five other kids right before.

America is getting very, very stupid.
 
2014-03-21 02:44:13 PM  

skozlaw: meat0918: I've learned about a movement at the fringes of the medical community called "Practice based evidence".

Maybe I've misread what it is, but to me it is directly incorporating non-evidence based treatments, like shamanism, reiki, reflexology, etc., to try and get better results with evidence based practices.

It's essentially the notion that the community as a whole that is being served by a practitioner should sanction treatments for disease based on their cultural mores and taboos.

So, if the community thinks that a kid with cancer will get better if a witch doctor stands over him and does some silly chants, well, hell, let's do that, fark the chemo that cured those five other kids right before.

America is getting very, very stupid.


I'm hoping its more "Get the shaman to stand over the kid to 'protect' him from the side effects of the chemo we're going to administer to try and save him".

So far it is (thankfully) hard to find much outside the psychiatric community, and that seems more about getting past those taboos, especially when dealing with mental health issues.
 
2014-03-21 02:51:10 PM  

ladodger34: My FIL was diagnosed with Pancreatic Cancer back in October of 2012.  The amount of shiat that people told him that would help with his cancer was absolutely insane.  He's been somewhat "lucky" in that his tumor has shrunk, is now staying the same size, and hasn't really spread.  It's almost been 18 mos. since his diagnosis and we realize that he has been very lucky.

Anyhow, my brother in law tried to force "veggie shakes" down him (BIL still takes them) and early on with these mushroom drops (apparently, they are supposed to help with chemo.. who knows).  He had lost so much weight early on that my take was "hey, fark this healthy stuff.. how about we make him stuff that he wants to eat that are calorie bombs?"  My wife was making him stuff like biscuits and gravy back then.  Now that everything has stabilized, he is back to being more conscious about his eating habits (especially since he has type 2 diabetes because of the tumor). I read a bunch of posts on a PC listserv thing and the vast majority of the people who had lost or were in the process of losing loved ones were like "screw the healthy diet stuff, it won't help anyways in the long run"

But still, the shiat people try to push on you when someone is diagnosed is crazy.


Its been suggested (I have no clue how effective it is and I hope to the Maker I never have to find out) that a low-carb/no-carb diet is effective with cancer treatments because you are starving it by putting your body in ketosis and making it burn fat instead of sugar. Its been said that Steve Jobs' cancer treatment (fruit juicing) was basically the worst thing he could have done for it.
 
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