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(CNN)   IRS warns of a phone scam preying on gullible taxpayers, are angry that someone is horning in on their racket   (money.cnn.com ) divider line 58
    More: PSA, IRS, scams  
•       •       •

1125 clicks; posted to Main » on 21 Mar 2014 at 9:16 AM (1 year ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-03-21 04:11:43 AM  
I think you'd deserve a tax deduction for that headline, subby.
/+1
 
2014-03-21 05:20:43 AM  
They should just have their enforcement division contact the scammers for failure to pay the taxes, they'll get the money.
 
2014-03-21 08:51:27 AM  
No honor among thieves.
 
2014-03-21 09:19:25 AM  
Isn't this an annual thing?

I am pretty sure CNN does not write news stories, just dusts them off and changes the date.
 
2014-03-21 09:19:48 AM  
Never underestimate the gullibility of people to fall for this. We had this scam in the area plus another where someone phones pretending that a person missed jury duty and unless they put $400 fine on a prepaid visa card, they are going to be arrested and people have fallen for it massively.

It is rather disappointing. I expect that in Florida, not North Carolina, but over the past few years the state's average IQ seem to have dropped 30 points.
 
2014-03-21 09:22:29 AM  

Random Anonymous Blackmail: Isn't this an annual thing?

I am pretty sure CNN does not write news stories, just dusts them off and changes the date.


There's a book I read you might be interested in:
ecx.images-amazon.com
 
2014-03-21 09:25:23 AM  
We need the IRS, I've never understood why losers denigrate it.  They just collect the money, they don't make the stupid laws.  Non compliant taxpayers have some serious rights.
 
2014-03-21 09:37:58 AM  

Ker_Thwap: We need the IRS, I've never understood why losers denigrate it.  They just collect the money, they don't make the stupid laws.  Non compliant taxpayers have some serious rights.


Truth. Almost every bad government idea can be directly attributed to congress. My mom actually got one of these last week and freaked out. But, when thy said the IRS's bureau of investigation, I knew it was crap. The IRS doesn't have one.
 
2014-03-21 09:39:10 AM  

Ker_Thwap: They just collect the money, they don't make the stupid laws.


Actually, the Commissioner of Revenue, through the Secretary of the Treasury, can promulgate regulations without the input of Congress, as Congress as abdicated certain administrative and law making duties to the Cabinet level Secretary.

So, at some level, "the IRS," through their Commissioner, do make the stupid laws.
 
2014-03-21 09:43:00 AM  

DayeOfJustice: Ker_Thwap: We need the IRS, I've never understood why losers denigrate it.  They just collect the money, they don't make the stupid laws.  Non compliant taxpayers have some serious rights.

Truth. Almost every bad government idea can be directly attributed to congress. My mom actually got one of these last week and freaked out. But, when thy said the IRS's bureau of investigation, I knew it was crap. The IRS doesn't have one.


They don't have a division specifically called "The Internal Revenue Service Bureau of Investigation," but they do have the Criminal Investigation Division.

Anywho, that particular scam has been going on for quite some time and the IRS is still "investigating" it.
 
2014-03-21 09:46:38 AM  

The_Six_Fingered_Man: Ker_Thwap: They just collect the money, they don't make the stupid laws.

Actually, the Commissioner of Revenue, through the Secretary of the Treasury, can promulgate regulations without the input of Congress, as Congress as abdicated certain administrative and law making duties to the Cabinet level Secretary.

So, at some level, "the IRS," through their Commissioner, do make the stupid laws.


I'm aware of this.  To come clean, I'm retired from the IRS.  Like any large bureaucracy it has it's problems, but I'd trust a random hard working IRS employee any day over the industry of predators pretending to protect you from the IRS.
 
2014-03-21 09:47:29 AM  

Ker_Thwap: We need the IRS, I've never understood why losers denigrate it.  They just collect the money, they don't make the stupid laws.  Non compliant taxpayers have some serious rights.


I agree with the sentiment here.  But I think the reason people hate them so much because of how much power they seem to have enacting those collections, and how little power we have to protect ourselves.
 
2014-03-21 09:52:58 AM  

durbnpoisn: Ker_Thwap: We need the IRS, I've never understood why losers denigrate it.  They just collect the money, they don't make the stupid laws.  Non compliant taxpayers have some serious rights.

I agree with the sentiment here.  But I think the reason people hate them so much because of how much power they seem to have enacting those collections, and how little power we have to protect ourselves.


Well, people panic and ignore far too often, which is flat out the worst thing one can do with the IRS.  If you panic and don't ignore you'll find out you actually have massive power to protect yourself from various collections techniques.
 
2014-03-21 09:54:26 AM  
So we are obligated by law, and therfore, punishment, to oink up 16 -  34% of our money, once a year, to and agency that represents a government that is 17 trillion dollars in hock, still buying stuff, still printing money and we get almost nothing for it and the only way to become exempt from this extortion racket is to amass enough money to tell them to piss off?  I think I see why the world at large is out in the hallway listening to the heart monitor and eyeing our CD collection and snickering.  I hope they sell us to a good country that will let us keep our running water and iPhones.
 
2014-03-21 10:04:54 AM  

Ker_Thwap: industry of predators pretending to protect you from the IRS.


Not sure if this is dig at scammers or dig at tax professionals everywhere.

Ker_Thwap: If you panic and don't ignore you'll find out you actually have massive power to protect yourself from various collections techniques.


The main issue that I have with the IRS is their air of initial infallibility. The information that they have must be correct, since that's what they have, and the burden is upon the Taxpayer to prove them wrong. In the case of a negative, proving it is almost impossible, so the Taxpayer is left with little recourse. The burden of proof is completely backwards in some respects with the IRS. They rely on companies and individuals to be correct and honest, then base their decisions and collection efforts on the information cleaned from those companies and individuals.

I had one case where a realtor was examined and was told that she owed tax on money that she states that she never received. A 1099-MISC issued erroneously, was not corrected by the issuer and the realtor, despite providing bank statements showing that the monies were never deposited into any of her accounts, was on the hook for the tax owed unless she wanted to take it to Tax Court and spend more money than the tax to fight the issue.

Trying to prove that you never received money is almost literally impossible, since the IRS can simply say it was given to you in cash and never deposited. They almost never attempt to contact the issuer, leaving that job to the Taxpayer to try and correct.
 
2014-03-21 10:07:40 AM  

The_Six_Fingered_Man: The main issue that I have with the IRS is their air of initial infallibility.


This entire house of cards is run on bullsh*t authority posturing and behind every one of them is some fat prick with a gun or a little drawer you can fill up with money to not have to pay attention to them.  The rest in uncollectable debt.
 
2014-03-21 10:09:50 AM  
Diogenes


Random Anonymous Blackmail: Isn't this an annual thing?

I am pretty sure CNN does not write news stories, just dusts them off and changes the date.


There's a book I read you might be interested in:


Does it have pop-up pictures?
 
2014-03-21 10:42:00 AM  
The IRS doesn't steal your money. They are the part of the Federal Government that is tasked with collecting monies you legally owe based on laws passed by Congress(your representatives).
 
2014-03-21 10:55:17 AM  
And priests aren't gay child molesters, they're grown men in dresses tasked with guiding you through a series of hoops every week so you go to heaven.
 
2014-03-21 10:55:59 AM  

Ker_Thwap: The_Six_Fingered_Man: Ker_Thwap:

So, at some level, "the IRS," through their Commissioner, do make the stupid laws.

I'm aware of this.  To come clean, I'm retired from the IRS.  Like any large bureaucracy it has it's problems, but I'd trust a random hard working IRS employee any day over the industry of predators pretending to protect you from the IRS.


I, too, trust [good adjective] people over [bad adjective] people.  But then, I guess that's a pretty easy thing to say.
 
2014-03-21 10:57:27 AM  

bunner: And priests aren't gay child molesters, they're grown men in dresses tasked with guiding you through a series of hoops every week so you go to heaven.


There's one thing I've always wondered about: how do you get internet in a 4X8 shack out in the woods?
 
2014-03-21 10:58:30 AM  

Voiceofreason01: There's one thing I've always wondered about: how do you get internet in a 4X8 shack out in the woods?


I just tap into all the projectors running around here.  It's 100% powered by snotty, meaningless bullsh*t.  As you can imagine, it runs like a clock.
 
2014-03-21 11:07:43 AM  
It probably is just a new IRS program to gather campaign funds for Democrats. Could be where Lerner went.
 
2014-03-21 11:12:38 AM  

Thunderpipes: It probably is just a new IRS program to gather campaign funds for Democrats. Could be where Lerner went.


It's not that you actually believe that there are still two political parties with divergent agendas, it's that you tirelessly shill for the imanginary party that OVERTLY wants to turn this place into a feudal oligarchy.  You are comedy gold.  Never change.
 
2014-03-21 11:13:26 AM  

Ker_Thwap: We need the IRS, I've never understood why losers denigrate it.  They just collect the money, they don't make the stupid laws.  Non compliant taxpayers have some serious rights.


Maybe because it is a corrupt organization, used for political purposes, and subject to zero oversight or accountability?
 
2014-03-21 11:16:20 AM  

Ker_Thwap: durbnpoisn: Ker_Thwap: We need the IRS, I've never understood why losers denigrate it.  They just collect the money, they don't make the stupid laws.  Non compliant taxpayers have some serious rights.

I agree with the sentiment here.  But I think the reason people hate them so much because of how much power they seem to have enacting those collections, and how little power we have to protect ourselves.

Well, people panic and ignore far too often, which is flat out the worst thing one can do with the IRS.  If you panic and don't ignore you'll find out you actually have massive power to protect yourself from various collections techniques.


Yeah, I agree with you.  It really is a problem that people actually see the IRS as some sort f all-powerful overlord that cannot be beaten.
My advice...  Find a good accountant if you're in trouble.  That's for a start.  Secondly, communicate with them.
 
2014-03-21 11:19:23 AM  

Thunderpipes: Maybe because it is a corrupt organization, used for political purposes, and subject to zero oversight or accountability?


except none of that is true
 
2014-03-21 11:20:51 AM  
The IRS generally doesn't work with Western Union or prepaid Visa.

They also generally don't call you.  They send nasty grams in the mail or come visit in person.Voiceofreason01:

There's one thing I've always wondered about: how do you get internet in a 4X8 shack out in the woods?

Via satellite or big cell phone antenna with a booster.
 
2014-03-21 11:21:23 AM  

The_Six_Fingered_Man: Ker_Thwap: industry of predators pretending to protect you from the IRS.

Not sure if this is dig at scammers or dig at tax professionals everywhere.

Ker_Thwap: If you panic and don't ignore you'll find out you actually have massive power to protect yourself from various collections techniques.

The main issue that I have with the IRS is their air of initial infallibility. The information that they have must be correct, since that's what they have, and the burden is upon the Taxpayer to prove them wrong. In the case of a negative, proving it is almost impossible, so the Taxpayer is left with little recourse. The burden of proof is completely backwards in some respects with the IRS. They rely on companies and individuals to be correct and honest, then base their decisions and collection efforts on the information cleaned from those companies and individuals.

I had one case where a realtor was examined and was told that she owed tax on money that she states that she never received. A 1099-MISC issued erroneously, was not corrected by the issuer and the realtor, despite providing bank statements showing that the monies were never deposited into any of her accounts, was on the hook for the tax owed unless she wanted to take it to Tax Court and spend more money than the tax to fight the issue.

Trying to prove that you never received money is almost literally impossible, since the IRS can simply say it was given to you in cash and never deposited. They almost never attempt to contact the issuer, leaving that job to the Taxpayer to try and correct.


Learn the name of the local Problem Resolutions Program director, it's a taxpayer advocate system within the IRS.

Why wouldn't the issuer correct the 1099?  Was it for the wrong amount, how did they get your clients information to put on the form, transposition of of EIN, was the issuer out of business, maybe your client was indeed lying to you as well, can you go to a lesser court and induce the issuer to provide a copy of the cancelled check with the information on where it was deposited (Oops, I signed the check over to my kid, or yeah, that's the account of a different realty company.)?

There are just too many systems/possibilities to know the answer off hand.  Yeah, things break down on occasion, and they're going to put the burden of proof on the taxpayer.  Can you imagine the cost and size of the IRS if they investigated every single discrepancy before sending out a bill?
 
2014-03-21 11:26:12 AM  

TheGreatGazoo: Via satellite or big cell phone antenna with a booster.


well sure but wouldn't you need a credit card or bank account for that? Either of those things would violate bunner's Great Independent American/Sovereign Citizen ethos(which I have it on good authority isn't just trolling or internet-tough-guy syndrome)
 
2014-03-21 11:29:43 AM  

Voiceofreason01: TheGreatGazoo: Via satellite or big cell phone antenna with a booster.

well sure but wouldn't you need a credit card or bank account for that? Either of those things would violate bunner's Great Independent American/Sovereign Citizen ethos(which I have it on good authority isn't just trolling or internet-tough-guy syndrome)


Your projector's on fire and you're about to get bounced for trolling.  Your move, Lord Snottington.   :  )
 
2014-03-21 11:29:52 AM  

Voiceofreason01: Thunderpipes: Maybe because it is a corrupt organization, used for political purposes, and subject to zero oversight or accountability?

except none of that is true


Evidence is there for all to see. Check out Lerner's emails for instance. But, since Chimpy is in the White House, his high dollar donor assigned to investigate won't do it.

But heh, Fark, Obama is God and can do no wrong here.
 
2014-03-21 11:30:41 AM  
Tht means you have nothing to say and you're just here to blow people dime store insults.  There's books about this.  Very old ones.  You can put one on your credit card.
 
2014-03-21 11:38:14 AM  

Ker_Thwap: There are just too many systems/possibilities to know the answer off hand.  Yeah, things break down on occasion, and they're going to put the burden of proof on the taxpayer.  Can you imagine the cost and size of the IRS if they investigated every single discrepancy before sending out a bill?

 
Accuracy. Ain't nobody got time for dat. Send out something, anything. Let the citizens try and fight it, ammirite?
 
2014-03-21 11:43:42 AM  
Never answer your home phone unless you have caller ID and know the caller. If it is important, the caller will leave a message.
 
2014-03-21 11:44:41 AM  
Lemme try and splain this with a pop up book.  It might just work here.

"We, the good people of the party of Harrumph, firmly assert that the blah of blah need not blee de blah, but rather terr'ists and kneegrahs and blee!"

"No, no, you see, the blah bleh blee is most certainly Blah!"

"I cite, as proof of our unimpeachable patriotic position that the bark on this tree is discolored in this are and this warrants much hand wringing and those responsible (that other party) shall be held accountable!"

"This tree discoloration is limited to a given area, but we must investigate this for years, with a suitable committee and hold the Harrumph party to task for it's possible advancement to other parts of this tree bark!"

"Guys?"

"Furthermore..."

"GUYS?"

"What is it, underling!  We are engaged in the stoic and erstwhile governance of a nation!   What do you want?"

"You oughta see this."

"See what?"

"Step back over here."

"Where you are?  P'shaw!  Why would we allow ourselves to step so far back from any meaningful aspect of the political landscape?"

"It's about that tree."

"Very well, what?"

"Look."

"Wow, that's a metric f*ckload of trees."

"Yeah, people call them forests."

"Hey, part of it is on fire!"

"Yeah, that."

"We shall need a new committee!"

"Never mind."
 
2014-03-21 11:55:48 AM  
The sad thing is, if the scammers were even a bit competent, they could get a lot more.

These guys left me messages, but when I called back, their voicemail box was full.

They call from agencies that it's easy to check don't exist.  This also makes it easy to Google them.

Lastly, I know the Federal Government is a great employer of minorities, but I'd expect an actual LEO to have slightly better English skills than the South Asians making the calls.

Anyhow, I'm still waiting for the arresting that Special Agent Greg Johnson of the Department of Legal Affairs of the US Treasury promised me last weekend.
 
2014-03-21 11:57:27 AM  

Earl of Chives: Ker_Thwap: There are just too many systems/possibilities to know the answer off hand.  Yeah, things break down on occasion, and they're going to put the burden of proof on the taxpayer.  Can you imagine the cost and size of the IRS if they investigated every single discrepancy before sending out a bill?
 
Accuracy. Ain't nobody got time for dat. Send out something, anything. Let the citizens try and fight it, ammirite?


It's a simple system. X company pays, they send a form to the person "we paid you $1,000.  They send an electronic version to the IRS, along with a cover sheet adding all the individual forms up.  The IRS checks that all the math adds up first.  Then they look at a person's tax return to see if they reported that income.  It's a simple process.  Maybe not as simple as you ... seem to think it is.
 
2014-03-21 12:00:52 PM  

fnordfocus: Anyhow, I'm still waiting for the arresting that Special Agent Greg Johnson of the Department of Legal Affairs of the US Treasury promised me last weekend.


Oh, now he's Jason Snyder.

One more hint -- try picking a name that slightly matches your accent.  I'd be much more likely to believe that an Indian named Rahul Patel works for the Treasury than Jason Snyder.
 
2014-03-21 12:02:53 PM  
I trust my data personal information management to nobody other than Keith in Hyderabad.   I mean Sioux Falls.  He is most very astute.
 
2014-03-21 12:07:22 PM  

Voiceofreason01: The IRS doesn't steal your money. They are the part of the Federal Government that is tasked with collecting monies you legally owe based on laws passed by Congress(your representatives).


And by Passed you mean rammed through during a special session before a Holiday break and may not have even been ratified by the right %?
 
2014-03-21 12:17:20 PM  
I want to lobby to have my name changed to General Electric.  I'll get lots of no bid contracts and not have to pay taxes on any of it.
 
2014-03-21 12:40:18 PM  

Ker_Thwap: Learn the name of the local Problem Resolutions Program director, it's a taxpayer advocate system within the IRS.


I'm aware.

Ker_Thwap: Why wouldn't the issuer correct the 1099?


Realty Brokerage went out of business. Could not correct the 1099.

Ker_Thwap: can you go to a lesser court


Other than the Tax Court for Tax Disputes? I thought you said you were an IRS employee.

The point is that fighting the assessment would have cost more than the assessment itself, therefore not cost beneficial to the Taxpayer. The IRS has no interest in compelling any third party to produce documentation. They rely solely on the information provided to them, use the full force of law to apply that information (incorrect or not) and then expect the defendant to produce documentation to the contrary.

I have represented Taxpayers that have tried to provide the examiner with every conceivable piece of documentation imaginable and still lost the examination because they could not prove a negative. The burden of proof situation is completely backwards when it comes to the IRS.

Ker_Thwap: Can you imagine the cost and size of the IRS if they investigated every single discrepancy before sending out a bill?


That's literally their job. That's the whole reason why so much information is transmitted to the IRS by the payor's of certain transactions. What I want the IRS to acknowledge is that the information that they receive is not always correct and infallible. There is the immediate presumption that the Taxpayer is in the wrong and must prove themselves innocent of the situation that caused the examination/notice/etc.That's what I have a problem with. The government is not always correct and laws and regulations that protect those accused do not apply to the IRS.

The standard of proof that they use is also extremely stringent. If you cannot prove to the dollar what you claim, then it is denied. Not through a preponderance or even a more likely than not scenario, but absolute proof. We require a lower burden of proof in some criminal trials where the defendant could end up losing their liberty for a period of time. It's patently retarded.
 
2014-03-21 12:43:58 PM  

Ker_Thwap: Earl of Chives: Ker_Thwap: There are just too many systems/possibilities to know the answer off hand.  Yeah, things break down on occasion, and they're going to put the burden of proof on the taxpayer.  Can you imagine the cost and size of the IRS if they investigated every single discrepancy before sending out a bill?
 
Accuracy. Ain't nobody got time for dat. Send out something, anything. Let the citizens try and fight it, ammirite?

It's a simple system. X company pays, they send a form to the person "we paid you $1,000.  They send an electronic version to the IRS, along with a cover sheet adding all the individual forms up.  The IRS checks that all the math adds up first.  Then they look at a person's tax return to see if they reported that income.  It's a simple process.  Maybe not as simple as you ... seem to think it is.


And that "simple system" that you tout so much has so many flaws that increased Information Return reporting was shot down due to massive concerns about matching errors and incorrect amounts.

If I issue you a 1099 for work that you did not actually perform for me, there is almost no recourse for you within the IRS to escape assessment of tax on that money that you were never paid and never had constructive receipt of. The IRS treats my 1099 and 1096 as gospel and assumes that the recipient Taxpayer is sheltering income illegally.
 
2014-03-21 12:46:01 PM  

The_Six_Fingered_Man: Ker_Thwap: Can you imagine the cost and size of the IRS if they investigated every single discrepancy before sending out a bill?


That's literally their job


Precisely.  I mean, let's face it, it's all funny money anyhoo.  Just print more and hand it out to the beleagured bureaucrats so they can, you know, do their job.  I wondoer how much it costs us to keep these overpriced calculator jockeys comfy while most of the corporatacracy pays prety much f*ck all back into the system.
 
2014-03-21 12:47:28 PM  

bunner: The_Six_Fingered_Man: Ker_Thwap: Can you imagine the cost and size of the IRS if they investigated every single discrepancy before sending out a bill?


That's literally their job

Precisely.  I mean, let's face it, it's all funny money anyhoo.  Just print more and hand it out to the beleagured bureaucrats so they can, you know, do their job.  I wondoer how much it costs us to keep these overpriced calculator jockeys comfy while most of the corporatacracy pays prety much f*ck all back into the system.


I apologize, but it appears as though your Thetan Thought Wave Transmissions are getting garbled. Perhaps your tin-foil is just a skosh too tight?
 
2014-03-21 12:53:56 PM  

The_Six_Fingered_Man: sheltering income illegally.


Think about that.  Let that statement roll off your tongue and then realize that you have to "illegally shelter" income from a tax collector who is swinging the axe  a country that is 17 trillion in debt and still has a checkbook.  And you can "legally shelter" it simply by being a multi-billion dollar corporate monolith.
 
2014-03-21 12:55:37 PM  

The_Six_Fingered_Man: I apologize, but it appears as though your Thetan Thought Wave Transmissions are getting garbled. Perhaps your tin-foil is just a skosh too tight?


Hey sixy.  Put the piss pail down and outline what you mean by that.  Prescisely.  I can't wait to hear the unimpachable logic behind all these K Mart insults, signifying nothing.
 
2014-03-21 12:59:45 PM  
Somebody said is that apparently the reason they can't curry comb every return and tax form for innacuracies is that it's cost prohibitive.  You said it was their job.  I agreed.  I said how can it be cost prohibitive when the government is printing this intaglio confetti like it's going out of style, so why not just port more to the IRS monkeys?  Cause at the end of the day, that IS the economic construct in use.  Tinfoil, huh.  Yeah, man, you smart folks got all the answers as long as the questions fit into the proper template.
 
2014-03-21 01:02:39 PM  

bunner: The_Six_Fingered_Man: I apologize, but it appears as though your Thetan Thought Wave Transmissions are getting garbled. Perhaps your tin-foil is just a skosh too tight?

Hey sixy.  Put the piss pail down and outline what you mean by that.  Prescisely.  I can't wait to hear the unimpachable logic behind all these K Mart insults, signifying nothing.


You're all over the place, bunner. I don't even know what you are saying here. I think you need help, of the professional variety.
 
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