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(Daily Mail)   A school has banned teachers from marking in red pen because is it judged a 'very negative colour'   (dailymail.co.uk) divider line 162
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5246 clicks; posted to Main » on 20 Mar 2014 at 7:35 AM (31 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-03-20 10:01:09 AM  

Cerebral Ballsy: In Florida, you only need a B.A. and the cert. test.. plus a few other certifications that you can earn while you teach.


Er, sorry, I do have to correct one thing in my post that I didn't catch while proofreading. It doesn't have to be a science degree. A bachelor of arts degree is fine too for art content experts, so long as you have the major and certification test in the appropriate subject. Elementary school teachers get equivalent to a B.A. (the range of mandatory-ish credits for an elementary certification is easier to do from an arts degree (or an education degree) than it is from a BSc, although both are certainly possible if you know what the requirements are when you start.
 
2014-03-20 10:02:47 AM  
In other news: financial ledgers will now use green ink to show negative amounts.
 
2014-03-20 10:03:19 AM  
My most recent professor was clearly from the old camp as my first paper was marked from top to bottom with red ink. I had deja-vu from my 90's high school experience.

The main difference between then and now is that I appreciated the work she put into the grading. I could tell that she cared about her job and  actually read my paper.  It is a shame that kids in the future will not
 
2014-03-20 10:04:21 AM  
Ugh.. Copy and paste miss-clicks....

My last professor was clearly from the old camp as my first paper was marked from top to bottom with red ink. I had déjà vu from my 90's high school experience.

Unlike the past, I appreciated the work she put into the grading. I could tell that she cared about her job and actually took the time to read my paper.  The human experience is becoming completely digital.
 
2014-03-20 10:21:57 AM  
So its wrong then that I mark my tests in tonnes of red ink with unhappy faces and snarky comments near stupid mistakes?
Funny my students actually like it and get upset when i don't add some humour to their test marking.  They see I am not taking their marks personally so they don't either.
 
2014-03-20 10:27:33 AM  

socoloco: Blacks don't work. Reds are aggressive.


i2.kym-cdn.com
 
2014-03-20 10:29:39 AM  

Cerebral Ballsy: EggSniper:

If you are doing math problems there is usually an unambiguous correct answer and anything else is wrong.  There isn't much room for creativity or elaboration.


With Common Core, this is no longer the case.  Students no longer answer in simple numerical responses, they now are expected to explain how they arrived at their answer in essay form.


I have to argue this, too. Common Core aside, while there's an 'unambiguous correct answer', that really isn't enough. Math isn't about finding the right answer (although that is part of it). It's about convincing your reader (if only yourself) that you know what you're talking about.

This is usually done by 'showing your work' numerically (which one can peer-review or self-review), but for some concepts, it can be true that one's thinking is more easily clarified through a verbal or written explanation. This can expose flaws in one's understanding (to the student as well as to the teacher) and helps to know what needs further attention.

How one solves a problem is far more important to teaching math than is getting the right answer.

If a student chooses a less-than-optimal method for solving the problem, even if correct, it can indicate places where they're missing concepts for whatever reason.
 
2014-03-20 10:34:43 AM  
Plant taxonomy prof in college graded on content and grammar on his exams.
Red pen, it looked like he used red spray paint.
/Eric the red was his nickname
 
2014-03-20 10:37:16 AM  
img.fark.net

I remember this faux outrage from 5 or 10 years ago.
It's been so long ago I don't remember how long it's been.
Can't Daily Fail come up with new material anymore?  I know Fark can't.
 
2014-03-20 10:43:30 AM  

Cerebral Ballsy: EggSniper:

If you are doing math problems there is usually an unambiguous correct answer and anything else is wrong.  There isn't much room for creativity or elaboration.


With Common Core, this is no longer the case.  Students no longer answer in simple numerical responses, they now are expected to explain how they arrived at their answer in essay form.


What do you mean, "no longer"? I got points counted off for not showing my work on math problems back in the 80's, and even then, there were stories about being marked down for not following the teacher-sanctioned route to the solution. (I never had that happen myself, maybe because my math teachers actually knew math.)
 
2014-03-20 10:44:39 AM  
While the action is goofy, the intent makes sense to me. To learn, you need to not only know that you got something wrong, you need to know why it was wrong, and how to make it right. Obviously with multiple choice or true/false answers that's easy to communicate. With writing or multistep equations, it is more complex. You don't want to take the time to write out how an answer was wrong just for the kid to see that it was wrong and skip the why part. Changing the ink color may help that, but it seems like it was a "throw it at the wall and hope it sticks" decision, rather than based on anything empirical.
 
2014-03-20 10:45:30 AM  

Delta1212: ChrisDe: I thought black was a negative color?

Black is zero color. To be negative, you'd need less color than black.


Any non white colour is a negative colour, cause it excludes other colours.

Red is an ANGRY colour. I know.
 
2014-03-20 10:46:26 AM  

Cerebral Ballsy: MooseUpNorth: Cerebral Ballsy: There's a lot more brains at the bottom of the education system where most people have degrees in a subject field and a certificate to teach (i.e., an engineer teaching math versus an education major teaching math).

Nearly every state (and I'm only saying nearly because I don't know definitively that it's all states, but every one I'm familiar with, certainly) requires a bachelor of science major (or equivalent in credits) in a subject area before they'll let you attempt the certification testing for that subject matter. Praxis II - Content is... lively. High school teachers are certified for that subject area only. If one wants more than one area of certification, they have to do additional tests. Elementary school requires the same number of credit hours, but the equivalent-to-major requirement is more generalized, as is the certification test.

In Florida, you only need a B.A. and the cert. test.. plus a few other certifications that you can earn while you teach.


Why do you hate teachers and seek to diminish their qualifications?  The Koch Brothers paid you to write this gibberish, didn't they?
 
2014-03-20 10:51:10 AM  

gimlet: My most recent professor was clearly from the old camp as my first paper was marked from top to bottom with red ink. I had deja-vu from my 90's high school experience.

The main difference between then and now is that I appreciated the work she put into the grading. I could tell that she cared about her job and  actually read my paper.  It is a shame that kids in the future will not


I always find it more disturbing to get a low grade or disapproval for a task without knowing where the mistake was made.  In school or work, just telling someone that they did it wrong without explaining what was done wrong will not make a better productive student or worker.  Sure, people are smart enough to figure it out in time, but why waste time getting there.

We had two new people added to my department at work, one transferred from another department and the other is a new hire.  We are getting rid of the transfer, sending him back, and keeping the new hire.  The new hire listens, so we can work with that.  The transfer keeps lying about what he does and claiming to be taking all the blame, like we have no way of knowing who does what.  So he knows he is failing, but can't seem to understand he would need to change his actions to make it work.  For a guy more than 10 years younger than me, I would think he wouldn't be so set in his ways.
 
2014-03-20 10:55:31 AM  
vermillion it is.
 
2014-03-20 11:06:08 AM  
My yellow in this case is not so mellow
 
2014-03-20 11:07:27 AM  
I'm sure the crappy decision was written in brown ink or in #2 pencil.
 
2014-03-20 11:11:02 AM  
periwankle it is.
 
2014-03-20 11:11:16 AM  
Several very bright people who's job it is to think about these things have come up with some interesting ideas in regards to education.  Not one of them that I can remember has sat down and said that grades are a bad thing.

...

A more novel approach, I thought, was moving to a 100% computer proctored teaching, homework, and testing system, and school would be a place for students to discuss issues with other students and the teacher.  Each student would be at their own pace, and once you had completed enough assignments with a high enough mark, you'd have the ability to take the test and continue down that learning track.

That allows for those who excel to excel, and those who need extra help to have individualized tutoring.  School would be where you DO your 'homework', because the teacher would be there to help you with each problem if you needed it. In this scenario, the teacher is there to monitor progress and provide literal one-on-one tutoring.

There's also an interesting shift;  a failed test just means that you haven't prepared well enough for that subject yet, and has no negative stigma.  You can just take it again tomorrow.  You don't have to worry about a whole class building on previous assignments when you're still grasping the basics.  In fact the closest thing to having a grade would be a comparison of your individual progress vs. the average or expected progress rate, and that'd be the teacher's primary responsibility to help correct.

Sure, this doesn't work for every type of class - creative writing is one that comes to mind - but it does for all the core competency classes we deem to be necessary.
 
2014-03-20 11:14:11 AM  

Gerald Tarrant: So its wrong then that I mark my tests in tonnes of red ink with unhappy faces and snarky comments near stupid mistakes?
Funny my students actually like it and get upset when i don't add some humour to their test marking.  They see I am not taking their marks personally so they don't either.


example, please?  I assume you don't just put a frowny face  and write "you're so stupid" if they spell something wrong.  I'm just trying to figure out the right amount of snark and humor to put into correcting a student.
 
2014-03-20 11:21:44 AM  
Red has always been the color for correction in editing.  Reason being is that no one actually does the work in red ink.  It's always black or blue.  The red is a stark contrast, and therefore very easy to see.  Green, eh, not so much.

This has always been the case.

For some idiot to perceive this as negative is simply idiotic.
 
2014-03-20 11:21:47 AM  

gfid: Gerald Tarrant: So its wrong then that I mark my tests in tonnes of red ink with unhappy faces and snarky comments near stupid mistakes?
Funny my students actually like it and get upset when i don't add some humour to their test marking.  They see I am not taking their marks personally so they don't either.

example, please?  I assume you don't just put a frowny face  and write "you're so stupid" if they spell something wrong.  I'm just trying to figure out the right amount of snark and humor to put into correcting a student.


frowny face and "your so stupid" or "your a looser"
 
2014-03-20 11:22:31 AM  

Jim_Callahan: Teaching college students I used to use a color-coding system where red was for things that were actually wrong, green was notations on incomplete answers, and point deductions were in red. Albeit that was an upper-division engineering course so they got what I was doing immediately, even if I lost a pen and used a different three colors occasionally.


Like orange, green, and orange?
 
2014-03-20 11:24:53 AM  
I had a teacher in my middle school gifted program (great teacher actually) who marked papers with green checks because she thought red x's were too negative.

The first day we got an assignment back, everyone in the class was happy with their results... Until I raised my hand and asked her why a wrong answer had a green check next to it on my paper.

The sudden panic on everyone else's face followed by instant crushing disappointment when they took a second look at their assignment was priceless. I only wish I had been born in a time with phone video cameras.
 
2014-03-20 11:27:15 AM  
i.imgur.com
 
2014-03-20 11:27:32 AM  
whatever color you choose becomes negative when you attach it to failure

if red was good and green bad, they'd be talking about banning green

get over it
 
2014-03-20 11:33:44 AM  
1.bp.blogspot.com
 
2014-03-20 11:44:31 AM  

durbnpoisn: Red has always been the color for correction in editing.  Reason being is that no one actually does the work in red ink.  It's always black or blue.  The red is a stark contrast, and therefore very easy to see.  Green, eh, not so much.


Well, they don't really want the snowflakes to see how badly they did or that they did something incorrectly.

I write my to do lists and things like that at work in different colors so I don't get bored looking at black or blue ink, but if someone asks me to proofread a letter (and it's not online) I use red. Because that's the color that equals corrections and changes.

When I worked as a proofreader, if I corrected copy in green, I'd have been biatched out. And if I did it again after that, I'd have been fired.
 
2014-03-20 11:45:26 AM  

Pants full of macaroni!!: Archie Goodwin: Call Every 1 a winner and give them a cup of hot chocolate.

What you did there, I sees it.

FLMountainMan: CSB - I had an employee file a hostile work environment complaint with me against another supervisor because the supervisor sent out a department-wide email that had words bolded in red. "Red is an angry color, it comes from a place of hostility."

Actually, red is a slow colour.


I call BS - everyone knows Red Ones Go Faster
 
2014-03-20 11:46:05 AM  

socoloco: The importance of a bad education is that you can become a school board administrator college professor of education with little to no classroom experience.


FTFY
 
2014-03-20 11:53:13 AM  

Chris Ween: Cold_Sassy: vudukungfu: Cold_Sassy: Good for you mister.

You look like Jane Curtain.
/That's a good thing.

Why thank you, I'm blushing!

/You've been a favorite of mine for a long time.  Because you make me laugh.  A lot.

Another Fark connection is made.  I wish you both many manly children together.


Too bad they'll be having girls.
 
2014-03-20 11:53:33 AM  

ChrisDe: I thought black was a negative color?


Black is beautiful. Black is empowering. Black is defining.
 
2014-03-20 11:56:13 AM  
Hey, western world.  Your grandkids are gonna be mud f*ck stupid and the people dismantling the joint are very pleased with this.
 
2014-03-20 11:56:28 AM  

Cerebral Ballsy: EggSniper:

If you are doing math problems there is usually an unambiguous correct answer and anything else is wrong.  There isn't much room for creativity or elaboration.


With Common Core, this is no longer the case.  Students no longer answer in simple numerical responses, they now are expected to explain how they arrived at their answer in essay form.


Common core appears to be how I do mental math: 18+18 is 20+20 -4. But it's still dumb when you have paper and pencil.
 
2014-03-20 11:59:34 AM  

Delta1212: ChrisDe: I thought black was a negative color?

Black is zero color. To be negative, you'd need less color than black.


Dro*in*the*Wind is watching you closely.
 
2014-03-20 12:00:05 PM  

AdamK: whatever color you choose becomes negative when you attach it to failure

if red was good and green bad, they'd be talking about banning green

get over it


Just like every time they change what they call the speds or tards, it's not like kids don't catch on instantly.
 
2014-03-20 12:07:38 PM  

bunner: Hey, western world.  Your grandkids are gonna be mud f*ck stupid and the people dismantling the joint are very pleased with this.


hey man, at least we aren't like stiffening their creativity and making them feel all bummed out and stuff.
 
2014-03-20 12:13:06 PM  
Great idea.  Make sure they never experience disappointment until they're old enough to kill lots of people.
 
2014-03-20 12:14:37 PM  
black is such a negative color that  blacks african americans do not want to be called it.

so why doesn't crayola start calling that crayon african ?
 
2014-03-20 12:18:43 PM  

WTP 2: black is such a negative color that  blacks african americans do not want to be called it.

so why doesn't crayola start calling that crayon african ?


That'd go over about as well as "Flesh" and "Indian Red" crayolas did.
 
2014-03-20 12:25:40 PM  

Ruiizu: I still grade everything in red ink when I can. It is visible, and it is obvious what it typically means.

/most of my "red ink" was the A at the top of the page
//public school is way, way too easy


Set the bat for an A higher?

I'm guessing you taught elementary or middle school?
 
2014-03-20 12:32:29 PM  

MooseUpNorth: Cerebral Ballsy: There's a lot more brains at the bottom of the education system where most people have degrees in a subject field and a certificate to teach (i.e., an engineer teaching math versus an education major teaching math).

Nearly every state (and I'm only saying nearly because I don't know definitively that it's all states, but every one I'm familiar with, certainly) requires a bachelor of science major (or equivalent in credits) in a subject area before they'll let you attempt the certification testing for that subject matter. Praxis II - Content is... lively. High school teachers are certified for that subject area only. If one wants more than one area of certification, they have to do additional tests. Elementary school requires the same number of credit hours, but the equivalent-to-major requirement is more generalized, as is the certification test.


No Child left behind replaced the credit requirement with a standardize test instead.

If for some odd reason your state required credits before taking the test you could just get certified in a state without that requirement and then transfer your certification.
 
2014-03-20 12:34:24 PM  

MooseUpNorth: Cerebral Ballsy: EggSniper:

If you are doing math problems there is usually an unambiguous correct answer and anything else is wrong.  There isn't much room for creativity or elaboration.


With Common Core, this is no longer the case.  Students no longer answer in simple numerical responses, they now are expected to explain how they arrived at their answer in essay form.

I have to argue this, too. Common Core aside, while there's an 'unambiguous correct answer', that really isn't enough. Math isn't about finding the right answer (although that is part of it). It's about convincing your reader (if only yourself) that you know what you're talking about.

This is usually done by 'showing your work' numerically (which one can peer-review or self-review), but for some concepts, it can be true that one's thinking is more easily clarified through a verbal or written explanation. This can expose flaws in one's understanding (to the student as well as to the teacher) and helps to know what needs further attention.

How one solves a problem is far more important to teaching math than is getting the right answer.

If a student chooses a less-than-optimal method for solving the problem, even if correct, it can indicate places where they're missing concepts for whatever reason.


So much this
 
2014-03-20 12:35:51 PM  

Mithiwithi: Cerebral Ballsy: EggSniper:

If you are doing math problems there is usually an unambiguous correct answer and anything else is wrong.  There isn't much room for creativity or elaboration.


With Common Core, this is no longer the case.  Students no longer answer in simple numerical responses, they now are expected to explain how they arrived at their answer in essay form.

What do you mean, "no longer"? I got points counted off for not showing my work on math problems back in the 80's, and even then, there were stories about being marked down for not following the teacher-sanctioned route to the solution. (I never had that happen myself, maybe because my math teachers actually knew math.)


No it isn't just showing work. They have to write in complete sentences how they solved the problem.
 
2014-03-20 12:48:24 PM  
Red is a negative color?  Bullshiat.  I just made this building section sheet BLEED.  I love making redlines.  It gives me a reason to give the project managers and drafters their daily dose of shiat talking

/one red pencil per 2 sheets
//BLEED
 
2014-03-20 01:03:06 PM  

shtychkn: Mithiwithi: Cerebral Ballsy: EggSniper:

If you are doing math problems there is usually an unambiguous correct answer and anything else is wrong.  There isn't much room for creativity or elaboration.


With Common Core, this is no longer the case.  Students no longer answer in simple numerical responses, they now are expected to explain how they arrived at their answer in essay form.

What do you mean, "no longer"? I got points counted off for not showing my work on math problems back in the 80's, and even then, there were stories about being marked down for not following the teacher-sanctioned route to the solution. (I never had that happen myself, maybe because my math teachers actually knew math.)

No it isn't just showing work. They have to write in complete sentences how they solved the problem.


Do you have a source for this that doesn't begin with FW:FW:FW:FW:FW:FW:FW:"? Because while I can believe that there may be one or two or even half a dozen questions like that  - which is not necessarily a bad thing - the idea that all (or most) of them are like that smells like unmitigated bullshiat to me.
 
2014-03-20 02:07:40 PM  

Ctrl-Alt-Del: shtychkn: Mithiwithi: Cerebral Ballsy: EggSniper:

If you are doing math problems there is usually an unambiguous correct answer and anything else is wrong.  There isn't much room for creativity or elaboration.


With Common Core, this is no longer the case.  Students no longer answer in simple numerical responses, they now are expected to explain how they arrived at their answer in essay form.

What do you mean, "no longer"? I got points counted off for not showing my work on math problems back in the 80's, and even then, there were stories about being marked down for not following the teacher-sanctioned route to the solution. (I never had that happen myself, maybe because my math teachers actually knew math.)

No it isn't just showing work. They have to write in complete sentences how they solved the problem.

Do you have a source for this that doesn't begin with FW:FW:FW:FW:FW:FW:FW:"? Because while I can believe that there may be one or two or even half a dozen questions like that  - which is not necessarily a bad thing - the idea that all (or most) of them are like that smells like unmitigated bullshiat to me.


It's just a standard that students need to be able to do that. How it is implemented is up to individual districts, schools, and teachers.


I agree that a few problems were you explain the process is good.

I can't believe that a teacher would give 30 problems like that.
 
2014-03-20 02:13:08 PM  
3 to 5 problems explaining and then 5 to 10 show your work questions for practice would be more educationally sound then the 30 to 45 questions students tend to do now.
 
2014-03-20 02:22:11 PM  
Think about the children's self-esteem!
 
2014-03-20 03:38:27 PM  
I started marking up my civil construction plans (for the CAD tech) in green about a year or so ago after reading about red=bad or some such.  Blue and black don't stand out enough and are easily missed.  I still don't think he likes me any more than he did when I was using red.  I've probably just re-associated the green=bad for him at this point.
 
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