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(Daily Mail)   A school has banned teachers from marking in red pen because is it judged a 'very negative colour'   (dailymail.co.uk) divider line 162
    More: Asinine, Johnny Weir, Forensic meteorology, Mick Jagger, vice principal, teachers  
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5336 clicks; posted to Main » on 20 Mar 2014 at 7:35 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-03-20 08:23:21 AM  

Sybarite: tells teachers to mark in green instead

Green is not a creative color.


And once kids get used to green as the color in which they receive bad grades, they'll start to think that green is a "very negative color."  Then they'll have to go back to red, or maybe move to purple.  The color itself is irrelevant; the association in students' minds between red and bad grades is the issue.  Anyone smarter than a school administrator would know that.
 
2014-03-20 08:23:23 AM  

ChrisDe: I thought black was a negative color?


i3.kym-cdn.com
 
2014-03-20 08:24:19 AM  

Jim_Callahan: Teaching college students I used to use a color-coding system where red was for things that were actually wrong, green was notations on incomplete answers, and point deductions were in red.  Albeit that was an upper-division engineering course so they got what I was doing immediately, even if I lost a pen and used a different three colors occasionally.

In other courses there would sometimes be multiple graders and we'd use different color pens and then not tell the students which TA used which color just to fark with them.

GoldSpider: Can we ban grades and just be done with this?

There are places that have tried doing this outright, but it's usually found that it doesn't work very well, since the core function of grades isn't a commentary on the value of the student so much as feedback for the teacher on how well the lesson is sinking in.

A couple of the lower-level places I've taught have done something a lot sillier with sort of the same effect, flooring final grades at 70/100 or adding points arbitrarily to some classes to make the scale go to 110, etc.  I've always found those kinds of "intentionally subvert the grading to make things look better" much, much more annoying than not grading at all.  But then, most of the times I've gone with "fark it, just do the homework because you need the practice, I'm only grading the exams" it's been college undergraduates, which is a different type of teaching.

// Honestly, the % grading scale is absolutely retarded to begin with if you aren't intentionally designing your tests such that the average falls relatively near to 50% in a normal distribution.  I you're not willing to deal with 20% of your students scoring under 30 points just use the letter-STD system, sheesh.
// For someone that doesn't enjoy it much I've done a lot of damned teaching.  I wish we'd fix the bloody primary/secondary school system so that constant goddamned volunteers weren't necessary.


You're talking about a median student only absorbing half of a lesson's material.
 
2014-03-20 08:24:40 AM  

HMS_Blinkin: And once kids get used to green as the color in which they receive bad grades, they'll start to think that green is a "very negative color."


Yep, the whole idea is just developmentally disabled.
 
2014-03-20 08:24:42 AM  
Excellent. Let's deprive kids of negative feedback when they make mistakes or don't even try. That way the real world will be a complete surprise later and it will be hilarious.
 
2014-03-20 08:26:06 AM  

Chris Ween: NItzche and Darwin weap.

Where is your evolution and survival of the fittest now Neil DeGrasse Tyson?


You of all people should not be championing natural selection.
 
2014-03-20 08:27:02 AM  

vudukungfu: steamingpile: Because everyone's a winner and gets a trophy!!!!


Quit coddling kids, failure can make them stronger.

Actually, It does.


Indeed. People should be ashamed of their ignorance. Forced to wallow in it, forced to suffer the slings and arrows of their betters. That way it feels like an actual accomplishment when you crush them.

That said, I don't trust anyone who has never failed. It means they've never been challenged.
 
2014-03-20 08:27:23 AM  
These kids are gonna be great additions to the work force.
 
2014-03-20 08:27:55 AM  

Delta1212: ChrisDe: I thought black was a negative color?

Black is zero color. To be negative, you'd need less color than black.


It's like "how much more black could this be?" and the answer is none. None more black.
 
2014-03-20 08:28:52 AM  
LOL. Get used to it kid. If your job involves writing, you're going to see more of that red pen after you leave school. I'm actually sitting here right now looking at the copy of the report I'm writing that's just come back from my editor, and it's all marked up in red. So much red. Apparently my co-authors and I suck at teh writing.
 
2014-03-20 08:28:57 AM  

Whatchoo Talkinbout: And the meek weak shall inherit the earth, and promptly die of a stubbed toe.

AMF wimps, the planet won't remember you.


The meek shall inherit nothing.

In case that's obscure....http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4npOEUMQoss&feature=kp

Some take the Bible for what it's worth
when it says that the meek shall inherit the earth
I heard that some sheik bought your country last week and you suckers ain't getting nothing.

and so on....

You know what they do in Washington
they just takes care of number one
and number one ain't you
you ain't even number 2
 
2014-03-20 08:32:49 AM  

SpectroBoy: Excellent. Let's deprive kids of negative feedback when they make mistakes or don't even try. That way the real world will be a complete surprise later and it will be hilarious.


More or less. I can understand the basic philosophy that pleasure is the root of all good and pain is the root of all evil, so exposing children to anything that feels bad is doing them evil: in other words, child abuse. It's utterly worthless as a philosophy, due to its fatally flawed initial assumptions, but the reasoning is nothing if not consistent.

But the fact is, people need to be able to cope with the negativity that ultimately affects every life to some degree, and the only way to develop those abilities is practice. Childhood, with its accompanying psychological resilience and low consequences, is the perfect time to get that practice. Kids do need protection from some things, but we do them a grave disservice by indiscriminately sweeping all negativity out of the way, because we deprive them of the opportunity to practice in a safe and controlled environment. Robbing them of that practice, in turn, deprives them of the ability to take care of themselves in the face of negative situations: the basic root of all human dignity.
 
2014-03-20 08:33:39 AM  

Chris Ween: NItzche and Darwin weap.

Where is your evolution and survival of the fittest now Neil DeGrasse Tyson?


Hang around until the Chinese take over engineering and science.
 
2014-03-20 08:33:43 AM  

SpectroBoy: ChrisDe: I thought black was a negative color?

[i3.kym-cdn.com image 150x134]


What's wrong with being racy?

img.fark.net
 
2014-03-20 08:34:57 AM  

SpectroBoy: Excellent. Let's deprive kids of negative feedback when they make mistakes or don't even try. That way the real world will be a complete surprise later and it will be hilarious.


This is the perfect news piece on education. It is an experience shared by most and trolls many. It is fun to talk about.

The more important issues like aliteracy or cognitive function on an empty stomach are not so compact.
 
2014-03-20 08:36:11 AM  

GodComplex: I don't trust anyone who has never failed.


Yeah, they might get some kind of a god compl....
ah wait.
 
2014-03-20 08:40:38 AM  
It's the DailyFail so I shall take it with a teaspoon of salt.

But if your answer is wrong then a 'negative' (lol) colour is needed.  By their logic, in a few years they will be saying green is a negative colour.

Also red is not a negative colour - it is a highlighting colour - else coke has wasted a lot of money.

(I just noticed that fark bands at the top and bottom of the pages ... terrible.)
 
2014-03-20 08:44:48 AM  
Weirdly enough, the reason we use red is because it's easily seen.  Green and purple tend to blend in a bit more.  So, I guess people don't want students to see all their mistakes at once?

Anyway, whenever we have professional development, we're usually told not to use red and to never ever use sarcasm in the classroom.  No educational theorist has _ever_ told me that having a sense of humor as a teacher is an extremely important quality to possess.  But that red ink and sarcasm are the devil -- that is something they all agree on.    ... and ending a sentence with a preposition, that's bad too.
 
2014-03-20 08:46:01 AM  
I've had a habit of avoiding red when marking my students' tests and papers for a number of years now, but it has nothing to do with it being "too negative".  It has more to do with my not liking to do the same damned thing all the time.
 
2014-03-20 08:53:07 AM  
The rise of the Eloi continues.

CSB - I had an employee file a hostile work environment complaint with me against another supervisor because the supervisor sent out a department-wide email that had words bolded in red.  "Red is an angry color, it comes from a place of hostility."
 
2014-03-20 08:53:38 AM  
I grade in whatever color of cheap-ass pen happens to work today and (amazingly) still be on my desk when I reach for one.
 
2014-03-20 08:55:56 AM  
Call Every 1 a winner and give them a cup of hot chocolate.
 
2014-03-20 08:58:39 AM  

Archie Goodwin: Call Every 1 a winner and give them a cup of hot chocolate.


What you did there, I sees it.

FLMountainMan: CSB - I had an employee file a hostile work environment complaint with me against another supervisor because the supervisor sent out a department-wide email that had words bolded in red. "Red is an angry color, it comes from a place of hostility."


Actually, red is a slow colour.
 
2014-03-20 08:59:13 AM  
The ginger hating has really gone too far.
 
2014-03-20 09:01:01 AM  
From my brief experience in the doomed American Education System, I can picture the buffoon who came up with this.  It's one idiot after the other in mid and upper management tripping over each other to come up with the latest hot new idea, but they're all too dimwitted to come up with an actual good, effective idea. 

Incidentally, I took a look at my old high school.  One of my old classmates is the principal now.  She wasn't bright, but she was one of those people who'd tattle on everyone.  She wasn't smart enough to be in our gifted program, or even the honors program, and she probably wasn't an exceptional student in the regular program, either. 

There's a lot more brains at the bottom of the education system where most people have degrees in a subject field and a certificate to teach (i.e., an engineer teaching math versus an education major teaching math).  People with teaching certificates seemed to rarely get promoted.

I guess the administrators are selected based on their aptitude at kissing ass.. who knows, because they sure are farking dumb.  I had superiors who could not even understand my own state requirements.. written in technical mathematical jargon that they might have been able to comprehend if they hadn't spent their four college years studying education theory.
 
2014-03-20 09:06:54 AM  

HMS_Blinkin: Chris Ween: NItzche and Darwin weap.

Where is your evolution and survival of the fittest now Neil DeGrasse Tyson?

You of all people should not be championing natural selection.


You didn't mark it in red so I win. Also stupid autocorrect.
 
2014-03-20 09:07:47 AM  

Cerebral Ballsy: Incidentally, I took a look at my old high school. One of my old classmates is the principal now. She wasn't bright, but she was one of those people who'd tattle on everyone. She wasn't smart enough to be in our gifted program, or even the honors program, and she probably wasn't an exceptional student in the regular program, either.


That right there says everything.
 
2014-03-20 09:08:17 AM  
PS..  I substituted before I taught and I met a lot of admins.. I'm trying hard but can't think of one that I thought was exceptionally smart or competent.  Maybe back in high school I knew a few.

I rarely met an incompetent teacher.  Most of them are desperately trying to get through insane workloads.. modern heroes for putting up with what they do.  Honestly, the pay was way too low for the insane amount of hours I was expected to work (you are expected to do many hours of planning and paperwork on your own time).
 
2014-03-20 09:13:47 AM  

Millennium: But the fact is, people need to be able to cope with the negativity that ultimately affects every life to some degree, and the only way to develop those abilities is practice. Childhood, with its accompanying psychological resilience and low consequences, is the perfect time to get that practice. Kids do need protection from some things, but we do them a grave disservice by indiscriminately sweeping all negativity out of the way, because we deprive them of the opportunity to practice in a safe and controlled environment. Robbing them of that practice, in turn, deprives them of the ability to take care of themselves in the face of negative situations: the basic root of all human dignity.



THIS
 
2014-03-20 09:16:53 AM  

Cerebral Ballsy: PS..  I substituted before I taught and I met a lot of admins.. I'm trying hard but can't think of one that I thought was exceptionally smart or competent.  Maybe back in high school I knew a few.

I rarely met an incompetent teacher.  Most of them are desperately trying to get through insane workloads.. modern heroes for putting up with what they do.  Honestly, the pay was way too low for the insane amount of hours I was expected to work (you are expected to do many hours of planning and paperwork on your own time).


^^^^^
THIS
 
2014-03-20 09:16:58 AM  
Isn't it about time that DailyMail has to pay fark for greenlighting their thousands of links, and gets stamped with a Sponsored Post tag?
 
2014-03-20 09:18:40 AM  

pxlboy: Cerebral Ballsy: Incidentally, I took a look at my old high school. One of my old classmates is the principal now. She wasn't bright, but she was one of those people who'd tattle on everyone. She wasn't smart enough to be in our gifted program, or even the honors program, and she probably wasn't an exceptional student in the regular program, either.

That right there says everything.


My old high school has the same thing.  However, with the exponential growth at our school in the past 20 years, I think she has done great.  The school is much friendlier than it has a right to be to kids of differing cliques.  My daughter is "different" and the environment works for her.  And at the elementary my son goes to, the principal has bent over backward for my son who has autism.  I'm delightfully surprised that these administrators are actually more helpful than harmful.
 
2014-03-20 09:20:37 AM  
Whatever color you choose will attain a negative connotation if you get bad grades.

Banning red as a color for grading is the dumbest thing ever.


Wouldn't the kids who are always getting A+ grades associate red ink with awesomeness?
 
2014-03-20 09:22:23 AM  

gfid: Whatchoo Talkinbout: And the meek weak shall inherit the earth, and promptly die of a stubbed toe.

AMF wimps, the planet won't remember you.

The meek shall inherit nothing.

In case that's obscure....http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4npOEUMQoss&feature=kp

Some take the Bible for what it's worth
when it says that the meek shall inherit the earth
I heard that some sheik bought your country last week and you suckers ain't getting nothing.

and so on....

You know what they do in Washington
they just takes care of number one
and number one ain't you
you ain't even number 2


Word, bro.
 
2014-03-20 09:26:22 AM  
When I was teaching in Taiwan we had a similar policy. We could check or x out or make corrections in red, but any long comments such as "Dear Jenny, please make sure put a space between the words 'pen' and 'is'" had to be in another color.
 
2014-03-20 09:27:45 AM  

daha: Isn't it about time that DailyMail has to pay fark for greenlighting their thousands of links, and gets stamped with a Sponsored Post tag?


But then no one would click on them.
 
2014-03-20 09:30:34 AM  
Does it matter if the wrong answer is marked in red or in pink glittery ink? The answer is still WRONG! YOU GET NOTHING!
 
2014-03-20 09:30:58 AM  

HailRobonia: When I was teaching in Taiwan we had a similar policy. We could check or x out or make corrections in red, but any long comments such as "Dear Jenny, please make sure put a space between the words 'pen' and 'is'" had to be in another color.


Does that happen often in Taiwan?  Because that sounds sort of hot.  I'd like to meet Jenny.
 
2014-03-20 09:31:09 AM  
What's wrong with red again?
2.bp.blogspot.com
 
2014-03-20 09:35:09 AM  

manimal2878: Whatever color you choose will attain a negative connotation if you get bad grades.

Banning red as a color for grading is the dumbest thing ever.


Wouldn't the kids who are always getting A+ grades associate red ink with awesomeness?


Re: color association (X color is the new red)

I'm telling you, the people who come up with these ideas are not smart enough to get this.  In meetings, if you disagree, you are shot down, then we take a "vote". 

It's that bad.
 
2014-03-20 09:35:42 AM  
I just grade with whatever pen is at hand at the time. Assignments are typed so the writing always is mine.

An F is an F regardless of the ink.

I believe the transcripts are printed in black. Does this imbue transcripts with a postmodern bleakness, achievements and failure reduced to standard type face? Let's commission a big bullshiat research project so everyone can meet publication quota.
 
2014-03-20 09:37:49 AM  

Cerebral Ballsy: There's a lot more brains at the bottom of the education system where most people have degrees in a subject field and a certificate to teach (i.e., an engineer teaching math versus an education major teaching math).


Nearly every state (and I'm only saying nearly because I don't know definitively that it's all states, but every one I'm familiar with, certainly) requires a bachelor of science major (or equivalent in credits) in a subject area before they'll let you attempt the certification testing for that subject matter. Praxis II - Content is... lively. High school teachers are certified for that subject area only. If one wants more than one area of certification, they have to do additional tests. Elementary school requires the same number of credit hours, but the equivalent-to-major requirement is more generalized, as is the certification test.
 
2014-03-20 09:41:52 AM  

Deep Contact: What's wrong with red again?
[2.bp.blogspot.com image 640x360]


You pay $2M for it, and Ferrari still doesn't let you have it.
 
2014-03-20 09:41:54 AM  

Whodat: Does it matter if the wrong answer is marked in red or in pink glittery ink? The answer is still WRONG! YOU GET NOTHING!


Exactly.  How are they every supposed to lean anything if everything is "right?"  Asinine.
 
2014-03-20 09:43:10 AM  
Let's all have a pointless debate about color because if we just find the right one education is fixed, forever!  What gets marked should generally be a function of what's worthy of attention, and depends upon how your assignments are structured.

If you are doing math problems there is usually an unambiguous correct answer and anything else is wrong.  There isn't much room for creativity or elaboration.  Marking mistakes, in any color easily distinguishable from what's already on the page, is appropriate so long as the majority of responses are correct.  If, on the other hand, the assignment is particularly difficult (either by design or because the student is having difficulty) it may be more efficient, and potentially more useful for the student, to mark successes.  However, giving kudos for doing something that everyone is capable of doing is not helpful or motivating.  Congratulate a child for blinking and see how excited they get.

Other subjects provide a lot more room to play.  If a student provides a wrong answer (say by writing a sentence) you could just cross out the mistakes.  You could write in the correct answer for their reference.  You could ask them a question about their answer to try and guide them to the mistake - let them find, on their own, where their previous logic breaks down.  You can get all kinds of clever and elaborate with this stuff, but the more useful an idea is the more time it is likely to take to implement.

Homework and tests and marking and grades are all born out of the need to teach a group of people the same thing at the same time as efficiently as possible.  They also provide a handy way to measure and evaluate teachers and schools, but that's secondary (and is a big part of why standardized testing provides so little benefit to students anymore - this secondary use has taken priority).  No amount of money or extra administrators or legislation is going to improve education for everyone when the focus is on these constructs that do not exist to educate students but merely to make doing so in an assembly line fashion more efficient.

Parents are the only ones who can devote the time necessary to educate their children to the highest possible quality.  If all you do is send your child to school, and that's all the education they're going to get, they are going to be the human equivalent of a fast food meal - serviceable but nothing special, and not worth much.  Participating in your child's education is the only way to give them more.  Even if all you're doing is taking the fast food home and dressing it up a bit (yay steamed hams!), you're still adding value.  It's worth noting, of course, that not everyone can cook something on their own that is even up to fast food standards.  Schools do have their uses.
 
2014-03-20 09:46:19 AM  

MooseUpNorth: Cerebral Ballsy: There's a lot more brains at the bottom of the education system where most people have degrees in a subject field and a certificate to teach (i.e., an engineer teaching math versus an education major teaching math).

Nearly every state (and I'm only saying nearly because I don't know definitively that it's all states, but every one I'm familiar with, certainly) requires a bachelor of science major (or equivalent in credits) in a subject area before they'll let you attempt the certification testing for that subject matter. Praxis II - Content is... lively. High school teachers are certified for that subject area only. If one wants more than one area of certification, they have to do additional tests. Elementary school requires the same number of credit hours, but the equivalent-to-major requirement is more generalized, as is the certification test.


In Florida, you only need a B.A. and the cert. test.. plus a few other certifications that you can earn while you teach.
 
2014-03-20 09:46:58 AM  

Deep Contact: What's wrong with red again?
[2.bp.blogspot.com image 640x360]


Yeah, look at these terrible parents drowning their kids in negativity:
i796.photobucket.com
 
2014-03-20 09:49:08 AM  
Yeah, because that "F, you fail again you stupid dumbass!" is so much less harsh in purple.
 
2014-03-20 09:56:18 AM  

MooseUpNorth: Cerebral Ballsy: There's a lot more brains at the bottom of the education system where most people have degrees in a subject field and a certificate to teach (i.e., an engineer teaching math versus an education major teaching math).

Nearly every state (and I'm only saying nearly because I don't know definitively that it's all states, but every one I'm familiar with, certainly) requires a bachelor of science major (or equivalent in credits) in a subject area before they'll let you attempt the certification testing for that subject matter. Praxis II - Content is... lively. High school teachers are certified for that subject area only. If one wants more than one area of certification, they have to do additional tests. Elementary school requires the same number of credit hours, but the equivalent-to-major requirement is more generalized, as is the certification test.


CSB

I went to a private school.so the teachers didn't have to be certified by the state.  That doesn't mean they weren't held to high standards, but it did mean they didn't have to know everything about our state's history just so they could teach computer science.  I still remember a couple of teacher's biatching about it.  I guess they didn't get paid very well.  They wanted to teach in public schools.  Go figure.  At least in my school the delinquents got expelled.

Also, one of the biggest fark-ups I ever knew became a public school teacher.   He had a BS, but he was not only an idiot, but he was a drunken drug user who was probably half drunk when he started class every day - if he managed to show up.
 
2014-03-20 09:57:08 AM  
EggSniper:

If you are doing math problems there is usually an unambiguous correct answer and anything else is wrong.  There isn't much room for creativity or elaboration.


With Common Core, this is no longer the case.  Students no longer answer in simple numerical responses, they now are expected to explain how they arrived at their answer in essay form.
 
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