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(KOAT Albuquerque)   Is it really necessary to bring in the SWAT team to write a ticket for a cracked windshield?   ( koat.com) divider line
    More: Stupid, Taos Ski Valley, SWAT team, taxpayer dollars, windshields, APD, raid  
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7933 clicks; posted to Main » on 19 Mar 2014 at 7:00 PM (3 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



Voting Results (Smartest)
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

2014-03-19 07:15:46 PM  
3 votes:

ongbok: Wanebo: Hobodeluxe: Wanebo: Benevolent Misanthrope: The Forest Service. Not cops. The farking Forest Service.

The NFS has quite the large Enforcement Division in the last 10 years. Not quite sure why they need that, but it's there...

because weed growers use national parks to grow in. and occasionally have guns and stuff.

And I thought w had the DEA for that? Maybe they've been teaching the NFS their most effective war on drugs tactics just to bring them up/down to speed.

The DEA doesn't routinely patrol the forest as a part of their jobs, the NFS does. What do you want them to do when they are patroling and they run across an illegal grow operation operated by people with guns? Tell them that they better not shoot because they are calling the DEA.


Legalize pot and de-fund them. The money's needed elsewhere.
2014-03-19 05:19:10 PM  
3 votes:
Look, when we give police departments all this awesome looking gear, they're going to want to use it.
2014-03-19 07:45:58 PM  
2 votes:
"Saturation patrols" and other inflexible applications of bad laws are the best ways to get bad laws thrown out. Most people assume that because they've always been privileged that bad laws won't be applied to them, or at least very rarely will, in exchange for willfully ignoring the oppression of the brown, the poor, or whomever's scapegoated now.

The problem is, we've gone so far down the rabbit hole that the only options we can vote for in most places are Judge Dredd style THE LAW IS THE LAW, YOU WILL OBEY sheriffs and politicians, creating more bad laws and policies, no matter what side of the political spectrum they hail from. I don't like the idea of revolution, but holy fark, between the tightening surveillance state and the militarization of police agencies, we seem to be going backward from all of the ideals we beat our chests about.
2014-03-19 07:23:58 PM  
2 votes:
Police think they are paramilitary in some kind of domestic war. Over the last couple of decades they have been trained that way. Particularly the last 5-6 years.
2014-03-19 06:10:41 PM  
2 votes:

naughtyrev: Look, when we give police departments all this awesome looking gear, they're going to want to use it.


The Forest Service.  Not cops.  The farking Forest Service.

WTF are those guys doing with tacticool gear in the first place?
2014-03-20 12:38:02 AM  
1 vote:

ongbok: LavenderWolf: hahaohwow.jpg

Yes, the plague of back-alley distilleries and home-grown tobacco leaf is apparent everywhere you go. Dafuq? Legalizing alcohol shut down the vast majority of illegal distilleries, some of which went legal.

Illegal production can't compete with legal production. Volume wins, every time.

Yep. I read somewhere that in NYC half of all cigarettes sold are black market. In Chicago they say a third of all cigarettes sold are black market. Some of those cigarettes are ones that are bought cheaply in other states and sold, some are ones stolen, some are ones made from the waste left over from legal manufacturing, and some is from off the books tobacco. And yes, they are still busting illegal stills to this day. But yeah you are right, if weed was legal there will never be a black market for it or people that for whatever reason grow illegally. People that think like you are so naive.

But lets forget about weed. Meth cookers also like to use the forest. You don't think forestry agents need to protect themselves from meth dealers?


Legalize meth?

I am increasingly convinced that turning a medical problem - addiction - into a legal problem and a financial problem is a mistake. If someone is hooked on drugs, wouldn't it be best if they weren't forced to go to such extreme measures?

I mean, don't get me wrong. I like weed, I smoke weed, but that's it; hard drugs are serious badness. I barely ever even drink, just a couple times a year. I just don't think the solution is to make drugs illegal. We've tried that for nigh on a century and it just doesn't work, and it has disastrous consequences. Like forests with boobytrapped meth labs. Like prisons full of broken people, and an incarceration rate that should make every single American feel ashamed.
2014-03-19 11:57:44 PM  
1 vote:

LavenderWolf: ongbok: LavenderWolf: ongbok: Wanebo: Hobodeluxe: Wanebo: Benevolent Misanthrope: The Forest Service. Not cops. The farking Forest Service.

The NFS has quite the large Enforcement Division in the last 10 years. Not quite sure why they need that, but it's there...

because weed growers use national parks to grow in. and occasionally have guns and stuff.

And I thought w had the DEA for that? Maybe they've been teaching the NFS their most effective war on drugs tactics just to bring them up/down to speed.

The DEA doesn't routinely patrol the forest as a part of their jobs, the NFS does. What do you want them to do when they are patroling and they run across an illegal grow operation operated by people with guns? Tell them that they better not shoot because they are calling the DEA.

Nothing. The only reason there are "illegal" grow operations is because it's illegal to grow a farking plant. Legalize pot -> no illegal gun-guarded grows -> Forest service can give up their militarization.

Golly, it's almost simple!

And if pot was 100% legal there would still be illegal grow operations in forest preserves with people with guns guarding them.

There is absolutely no reason to believe that would be the case.

If getting caught weren't a factor - at all - then there's no reason to do any such thing.


Maybe the person doesn't want to pay the fee's and taxes associated with operating a legal grow. Maybe the person doesn't have the money to buy a farm to grow on. Maybe the person is somehow barred legally from operating a legal grow. There could be many reasons, but one thing is for sure, it doesn't matter if it is legal, there is going to be a black market for it. Look at alcohol and tobacco. Alcohol is legal but you will find illegal stills with people willing to defend them tooth and nail, tobacco is legal, but there is a huge black market for cigarettes. Plus weed growing isn't the only illegal thing people go into the forest to do that they will use guns to defend.
2014-03-19 11:41:09 PM  
1 vote:

brimed03: this thread's rants was a four-person ticketing sweep.


I'm still a bit off put. 4 or 6 or whatever. Show up in a SWAT vehicle with a sniff puppy when there has not been a reported issue? If officers are seeing people driving dangerously (their stated excuse in TFA for the parking lot excursion) pull those assholes over (if they have the authority. If they don't they should contact an appropriate authority). What they did was ram their lordship over a parking lot that had no reported problem in it. As a positive enforcement exercise. An enforcement exercise at a point where there was no demonstrated issue and they could only make analogous ties to nebulous "Hey! We saw someone driving cray cray and they must have been those ski bums."
2014-03-19 09:34:52 PM  
1 vote:

brimed03: OK, I enjoy a good FARK-hates-The-Man thread as much as anyone else, but I feel like everyone's lighting the torches for nothing here.

I read TFA.  Four guys from the FSO who would have been sitting around polishing their tac gear hoping for a call to come in were instead tasked to write a bunch of nuisance tickets for a day.  On the whole, I'd say this is an improvement.  Sure, I hate nuisance ticketing too.  But at least they didn't strip regular officers from patrol routes, and instead made four specialists do some actual, non-training work.

So... the Forest Service has tac gear.  *shrug*  Post-TwinTowers/Afghanistan/Iraq, tell me what law enforcement doesn't?  All that perfectly good, slushy grant money goin' 'round?  I'm not saying it's right, but this instance is no reason for the Outrage Brigade.  So... the Forest Service "saturated" an area with a whole FOUR people, and wrote a bunch of stupid tickets.  In my neighborhood, it's done every night by Parking Enforcement.  Big deal.

I'm sorry FARK, but AFAICT, a bunch of rich people-- usually aka "The Man"-- are making a big fuss because they want to get some tickets revoked.  That's all.  No story here... and sure as hell I'm not gonna feel outrage for the poor rich.


They came for the rich ski resort folks and I said nothing, because I didn't ski at Taos...
2014-03-19 08:45:26 PM  
1 vote:

sanriosucks: The One True TheDavid: "I could not be more upset about this," said former Gov. Gary Johnson (Wikipedia link), who is also a resident of Taos. "I could not be more upset. Somebody needs to lose their job."

To quote the Wikipedia article on him: "Johnson served as the 29th Governor of New Mexico from 1995 to 2003, as a member of the Republican Party."

Sheesh.

You don't know Gray Johnson, man. He was a great, realistic governor. He ran as a republican but was not constant at all in his record. He would go with what made sense. Obviously there was no place for him in politics...


I listened to an NPR interview with him in 2011 and thought, "Damn, there is Republican I could vote for!" Of course, the establishment preferred the likes of Santorum, Perry, Bachmann, Romney, etc.
2014-03-19 08:35:01 PM  
1 vote:

The One True TheDavid: "I could not be more upset about this," said former Gov. Gary Johnson (Wikipedia link), who is also a resident of Taos. "I could not be more upset. Somebody needs to lose their job."

To quote the Wikipedia article on him: "Johnson served as the 29th Governor of New Mexico from 1995 to 2003, as a member of the Republican Party."

Sheesh.


You don't know Gray Johnson, man. He was a great, realistic governor. He ran as a republican but was not constant at all in his record. He would go with what made sense. Obviously there was no place for him in politics...
2014-03-19 08:25:54 PM  
1 vote:

anuran: Benevolent Misanthrope: naughtyrev: Look, when we give police departments all this awesome looking gear, they're going to want to use it.

The Forest Service.  Not cops.  The farking Forest Service.

WTF are those guys doing with tacticool gear in the first place?

Plenty of grow operations on Forest Service and BLM land. Law enforcement can be dangerous there


I get that they're armed, in case they run into a couple of guys who went to water the plants and who are in no mood to chat with the forest rangers, but why do they need tactical gear?  Couldn't they just call up their DEA or State Trooper buddies, in the case they want to raid the plantation?
2014-03-19 08:14:24 PM  
1 vote:

strangeluck: Benevolent Misanthrope: naughtyrev: Look, when we give police departments all this awesome looking gear, they're going to want to use it.

The Forest Service.  Not cops.  The farking Forest Service.

WTF are those guys doing with tacticool gear in the first place?

You think that's nutz?

Where I live, about 40 miles away from me is a huge lake which has a hydroelectric dam. It's controlled by a water "authority" as they call themselves and they have their own police force, who patrol the lake looking for evil-dooers, like people getting drunk while boating,etc.

Well, few months ago I'm out at the lake and I start hearing what I swear is fully automatic gunfire, I'm really trying to figure out what the hell is going on, cause it's not just one gun, it sounds like two-three full auto machine guns firing. So I call the Sheriff's office to report it, the dispatcher says "oh, yeah, we know about it, it's the river authority, they're testing their new machine guns, they told us they'd be doing it."


Boys and their toys.

Similar experience when visiting relatives in the Texas Hill Country in 2010. Went running and ended up near Buchanan Dam, a medium-sized object holding back a big lake. "Near" was as close as I could get, as there were chain-link fences and tubby guys in uniforms patrolling this ahem strategic objective.

Not having visited the Homeland in some years (ACHTUNG) I engaged one of these puffy whiteys in conversation. Off-limits, cannot get closer, nosiree. What the subtext was, I discerned, was that here was another superfluous citizen, probably a junior college graduate, with no real career potential whatsoever. So man oh man was he glad to hang onto this feeble watchman's job.

The point is that all of these forces are not just going to collect their paychecks and go back to sleep. Give them the armaments, instil a bit of alarm, and they're off and rolling.

What's going to be fun at some point is where one of these Security State doofuses gets trigger-happy and drills another SS operative, whom he mistakes, in his portly befuddled fashion, for a terrrst. Helps if they're replete with melanin.

The other side might just shoot back... because they can. And are authorized to, in the myriad orders and commands to defend the Homeland. Remember the Georgia National Guard bringing out the tanks after 9/11?

Franz Stigler, a Bf-109 ace, once recounted how the Gestapo had threatened his aged mother for listening to foreign broadcasts. "Do you want me to come by and strafe your headquarters?" he asked, more or less rhetorically. End of problem.

Just like they said, when all the foreign adventurism becomes too expensive or impractical, they'll bring the war home. (Yeah, I know our timing was off, but it did kind of get snowballing after Vietnam...)

Another reason to watch the fun from far offshore...
gja
2014-03-19 08:11:53 PM  
1 vote:

fusillade762: Spare Me: Police think they are paramilitary in some kind of domestic war. Over the last couple of decades they have been trained that way. Particularly the last 5-6 years.

Read this if you want to be pissed off

[ecx.images-amazon.com image 321x500]


I find the title amusing and asinine. Any cop that thinks he or she would last 1 effing minute in the sandbox knee-deep in the shiat better just stick to patrolling brown-ish folks in the Bronx, where they have the upper hand. Smartass yahoos get sent home on a 130 with a honor detail and a sad letter to their folks.

Yeah. Militarized≠military. Don't insult those who do the real drag.
2014-03-19 07:53:06 PM  
1 vote:

Spare Me: Police think they are paramilitary in some kind of domestic war. Over the last couple of decades they have been trained that way. Particularly the last 5-6 years.


Read this if you want to be pissed off

ecx.images-amazon.com
2014-03-19 07:52:22 PM  
1 vote:

Wanebo: Benevolent Misanthrope: The Forest Service. Not cops. The farking Forest Service.

The NFS has quite the large Enforcement Division in the last 10 years. Not quite sure why they need that, but it's there...


I've see articles on Fark recently about how Mexican cartels are using national parks and forests for growing weed, especially parks and forests near the border. So I imagine they are militarizing due to that, and due to the fact that they patrol the areas on a regular basis instead of other law enforcement agencies that would be based hours away.
2014-03-19 07:36:44 PM  
1 vote:
Ahh. Government grants don't come from their revenues. Only on Fark would a moron write that with a straight face.

If you're patrolling an area that requires your tactical gear, you should be looking for more serious crimes than cracked windows. If you are in a place where cracked windows are serious business, you don't need tactical gear. And if you have the time to run a saturation patrol, the issues requiring your presence seem dubious at best.
2014-03-19 07:20:25 PM  
1 vote:

iheartscotch: Um; saturation patrols don't cost tax payer money. Saturation patrols are usually paid for by grants; with the requirement that they be done x number of times a year. The objective is to write as many tickets as humanly possible.


Where do you think the grant money comes from? Corporate donations or something?
2014-03-19 07:15:58 PM  
1 vote:
Wait, I thought that the feds have been steadily slashing Forest Service for years. Many trails, parks, service roads, and FS offices have been closed over the last couple decades. How and why the hell do they have the budget for serious combat gear?
2014-03-19 07:12:30 PM  
1 vote:

Wanebo: Benevolent Misanthrope: The Forest Service. Not cops. The farking Forest Service.

The NFS has quite the large Enforcement Division in the last 10 years. Not quite sure why they need that, but it's there...


If they don't spend all those DHS funds, they don't get to keep them.
2014-03-19 06:57:01 PM  
1 vote:
The act is called a Saturation Patrol, and it was performed recently at Taos Ski Valley by four National Forest Police officers and a drug-sniffing dog.

"Oh look, a brown person. Sit. Good dog."
2014-03-19 06:19:32 PM  
1 vote:

Benevolent Misanthrope: The Forest Service. Not cops. The farking Forest Service.


The NFS has quite the large Enforcement Division in the last 10 years. Not quite sure why they need that, but it's there...
2014-03-19 05:50:48 PM  
1 vote:
They're here to oppress you for your own safety.
2014-03-19 05:44:19 PM  
1 vote:
"I could not be more upset about this," said former Gov. Gary Johnson (Wikipedia link), who is also a resident of Taos. "I could not be more upset. Somebody needs to lose their job."

To quote the Wikipedia article on him: "Johnson served as the 29th Governor of New Mexico from 1995 to 2003, as a member of the Republican Party."

Sheesh.
 
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