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(Daily Kos)   File a complaint against a cop in Kansas and it gets dismissed? That's a felony   (dailykos.com) divider line 93
    More: Asinine, Kansas, Kansas House, Health Care, International, complaints, juvenile justice, felony charges, House Minority Leader  
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11594 clicks; posted to Main » on 19 Mar 2014 at 2:35 PM (23 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-03-19 01:10:48 PM
False complaints against cops occur far too often, but this isn't the way to fix it. There are already laws against filing false police reports.
 
2014-03-19 01:23:49 PM
FTFA: acknowledging that if their allegations are proven false, they can be charged with perjury,

Pretty okay with this, provided the underlined portions are held true. Should be a case by case basis, not another idiotic "Zero Tolerance" law.

FTFA:Furthermore, this bill prohibits a Kansas law enforcement agency from opening an investigation into a complaint if another law enforcement agency has already investigated the complaint and found in favor of the officer.

Absolutely NOT okay with this, however. This prevents the Kansas State Police and Kansas Bureau of Investigation from investigating police corruption and abuses against the citizens of the State. Fark that shiat.

FTFA: In other words, this bill would allow police departments to arrest the people who file complaints against police officers.

No, it doesn't, unless there is something in the bill that is not being reported by DailyKOS. The wording of the bill states the complaint would not only have to be found unsubstantiated, but outright false and malicious.
 
2014-03-19 01:25:23 PM

CruiserTwelve: False complaints against cops occur far too often, but this isn't the way to fix it. There are already laws against filing false police reports.


Yeah, doesn't perjury already cover this?
 
2014-03-19 01:30:28 PM

EvilEgg: Yeah, doesn't perjury already cover this?


Not necessarily. It falls along the same lines as falsifying a rape allegation. Complaints are treated with the benefit of the doubt.
 
2014-03-19 01:36:13 PM

hardinparamedic: EvilEgg: Yeah, doesn't perjury already cover this?

Not necessarily. It falls along the same lines as falsifying a rape allegation. Complaints are treated with the benefit of the doubt.


Well then, why not have this law apply to everyone?  Police should not be special.
 
2014-03-19 01:38:12 PM

EvilEgg: Well then, why not have this law apply to everyone?  Police should not be special.


You don't think that Police would be in any position to be at a higher risk of someone filing an exaggerated or false claim?

Come on. You have people on FARK alone who gloat about how they would openly lie about something just to see a cop get in trouble. What makes you think that doesn't extend to the general public*.

*not talking about cases where ACTUAL misdeeds have been done.
 
2014-03-19 01:43:38 PM

hardinparamedic: EvilEgg: Well then, why not have this law apply to everyone?  Police should not be special.

You don't think that Police would be in any position to be at a higher risk of someone filing an exaggerated or false claim?

Come on. You have people on FARK alone who gloat about how they would openly lie about something just to see a cop get in trouble. What makes you think that doesn't extend to the general public*.

*not talking about cases where ACTUAL misdeeds have been done.


I think they would be, but I don't think that makes the crime more severe.  There also other non-police that are in the same category.  Public school teacher, for one.
 
2014-03-19 02:13:17 PM
EvilEgg:
I think they would be, but I don't think that makes the crime more severe.  There also other non-police that are in the same category.  Public school teacher, for one.

Having been through a false allegation and the legal misery it entails, I agree with you.
 
2014-03-19 02:34:59 PM
i.imgur.com
 
2014-03-19 02:40:33 PM

shanrick: [i.imgur.com image 850x223]


Or a biker, they will be more helpful
 
2014-03-19 02:40:50 PM
I assume cops will also be charged with a felony if they arrest someone who is found to be innocent?
 
2014-03-19 02:44:47 PM

hardinparamedic: You don't think that Police would be in any position to be at a higher risk of someone filing an exaggerated or false claim?


I would think because of the perception of retaliation the police would be at a lower risk of someone filing a claim at all. I won't even ask a cop for directions let alone file some complaint with my name attached to it.
 
2014-03-19 02:45:53 PM

shanrick: [i.imgur.com image 850x223]


oi48.tinypic.com
 
2014-03-19 02:46:27 PM

hardinparamedic: You don't think that Police would be in any position to be at a higher risk of someone filing an exaggerated or false claim?


No.

It is very naive to think they aren't already given special treatment in the criminal justice system.


hardinparamedic: What makes you think that doesn't extend to the general public


Even if it did, I have seen plenty of cases that prove that, even with this attitude, cops clearly get away with lying and breaking the law, on what appears to be, a routine basis.
 
2014-03-19 02:47:43 PM

genner: I assume cops will also be charged with a felony if they arrest someone who is found to be innocent?


Police have qualified immunity, which means they cannot be convicted for misconduct unless they violate a "clearly established right".

So, arresting an innocent person?  No.  Arresting someone they know to be innocent?  Yes.
 
2014-03-19 02:48:09 PM
69gnarkill69:    [oi48.tinypic.com image 726x396]

That's a speed not a measurement of time.
 
2014-03-19 02:51:36 PM

mlorton: genner: I assume cops will also be charged with a felony if they arrest someone who is found to be innocent?

Police have qualified immunity, which means they cannot be convicted for misconduct unless they violate a "clearly established right".

So, arresting an innocent person?  No.  Arresting someone they know to be innocent?  Yes.


www.quickmeme.com
 
2014-03-19 02:52:33 PM
Since this is Daily Kos, can we assume the same credibility as Daily Fail, Fox News and the Onion?
 
2014-03-19 02:52:52 PM

Headso: I would think because of the perception of retaliation the police would be at a lower risk of someone filing a claim at all.


Some cop decided to have his off duty pig* mess with my wife after he pulled her over.

I was on speaker phone for part of it, so after she hung up I called the police about it and the county cops denied she had been pulled over. Either they were lying or the sop who pulled her over didn't call it in. We were going to file a complaint but a buddy who was a state trooper said while it was completely farked up, and as far as he knew broke several rules, that it wasn't worth it. We have to drive through the county and they would fark with us in the future, and since there was no clear proof of breaking the law absolutely nothing would happen.

/I rarely use that term, deserved in this case.
 
2014-03-19 02:53:07 PM
Hardin and 12 - Fark's resident cop apologists.

/Isolated incident
 
2014-03-19 02:53:48 PM

mlorton: Arresting someone they know to be innocent? Yes


Sadly the answer in reality is still no.
 
2014-03-19 02:53:56 PM

hardinparamedic: FTFA: acknowledging that if their allegations are proven false, they can be charged with perjury,

Pretty okay with this, provided the underlined portions are held true. Should be a case by case basis, not another idiotic "Zero Tolerance" law.

FTFA:Furthermore, this bill prohibits a Kansas law enforcement agency from opening an investigation into a complaint if another law enforcement agency has already investigated the complaint and found in favor of the officer.

Absolutely NOT okay with this, however. This prevents the Kansas State Police and Kansas Bureau of Investigation from investigating police corruption and abuses against the citizens of the State. Fark that shiat.

FTFA: In other words, this bill would allow police departments to arrest the people who file complaints against police officers.

No, it doesn't, unless there is something in the bill that is not being reported by DailyKOS. The wording of the bill states the complaint would not only have to be found unsubstantiated, but outright false and malicious.


What's the standard for this? If you misremember what time an altercation happened, but the rest of your testimony is true, is that a felony? How about if you are incorrect about what item the cop used to hit you?

I agree that there should be tougher repercussions for people who knowingly make false allegations against each other (whether it be against a cop or a neighbor). I had a family member who was arrested due to false allegations in an attempt to extort money from him. *shakes head*
 
2014-03-19 02:54:16 PM
The good cops who protect bad cops are the worst cops of all.
 
2014-03-19 02:54:48 PM
Oh Daily Kos; representing the bill in the worst possible light, why am I not surprised?

Granted, it's trash and it's not going to pass; but, it's not exactly pearl clutchy material. I agree that patiently false and malicious complaints should be punished; but, not at the cost of discouraging legit complaints.
 
2014-03-19 02:54:54 PM

simkatu: 69gnarkill69:    [oi48.tinypic.com image 726x396]

That's a speed not a measurement of time.


Dependent on how far the target is at the time.  He basically gave you an equation for "X" and you're too dumb to solve it.
 
2014-03-19 02:55:59 PM

hardinparamedic: No, it doesn't, unless there is something in the bill that is not being reported by DailyKOS. The wording of the bill states the complaint would not only have to be found unsubstantiated, but outright false and malicious.


Eh, maybe I take back my last response if this is really true.
 
2014-03-19 02:56:22 PM

Spad31: Since this is Daily Kos, can we assume the same credibility as Daily Fail, Fox News and the Onion?


The Onion is way more reliable than any of those others. :P
 
2014-03-19 02:56:30 PM
I had to file a complaint against an officer once.  When I went to the station to get the form to fill out, 2 cops asked me if I was sure I really wanted to do this.  When I asked for 2 more forms they quickly went into "oh were just looking out for your safety, a false report can lead to blah blah blah".  Drop that holier than thou attitude and maybe there would be less complaints to begin with.
 
2014-03-19 02:56:42 PM

Prophet of Loss: Hardin and 12 - Fark's resident cop apologists.

/Isolated incident


Please quote where I have "apologized" for anything. I spent six months defending myself along with a non-commissioned deputy against a false sexual assault charge because I cut the clothes off a drunk teenager to ensure she didn't have a life-threatening injury. Somehow, despite a woman deputy in the back with this little tart, we both managed to tag-team rape her in-between the scene and the Regional Medical Center.

Oh, wait. This is where you go "LOL I TROLL U", right?
 
2014-03-19 02:58:01 PM
 
2014-03-19 02:58:17 PM

hardinparamedic: FTFA: acknowledging that if their allegations are proven false, they can be charged with perjury,

Pretty okay with this, provided the underlined portions are held true. Should be a case by case basis, not another idiotic "Zero Tolerance" law.


What if you believe an allegation is true, and it isn't?

It's definitely possible for a guy who got beaten by/in a crowd to think a cop did it.  Maybe he thinks it's cop #6202 and it was actually cop #6220 or something.  If he has facts wrong, provably so, it doesn't mean the complaint is entirely invalid, and it certainly doesn't mean the complainant should be liable/charged.
 
2014-03-19 03:00:02 PM
How can anyone think it should be legal for an officer to have the right to be able to read over the entire claim against them?  It gives the officer(s) in question an easy out, since they can always come up with a good story that will back up their side of a claim against them.

The only way to say that this suggested law is legal is to then state that every citizen of the state of Kansas is already a suspected criminal, and therefore anything they may say against an officer is considered to be suspect.
 
2014-03-19 03:00:12 PM

elysive: Eh, maybe I take back my last response if this is really true.


I would hope that the bill would only reserve prosecution for people where they can prove the intent was malicious - i.e. they just wanted to ruin someone's career/life.

That said, I don't support the bill for the reason I mentioned in the initial post in this thread: It eliminates State oversight if the local department deems a complaint "False"
 
2014-03-19 03:02:02 PM

CruiserTwelve: False complaints against cops occur far too often, but this isn't the way to fix it. There are already laws against filing false police reports.


Yeah, but cops get to do whatever they want AT whomever they want because SHUT UP COMMIE!
 
2014-03-19 03:04:26 PM
If the police think you're guilty of a crime, you will be punished for that crime.  It's perfectly legal to keep innocent people in jail and never try them (if you find the right loophole).  It's perfectly legal to intimidate or confuse a 'confession' out of someone (as long as the officers don't admit to any misconduct).  It's perfectly legal to lie to a suspect to scare them into pleading guilty to a lesser crime to avoid a harsher sentence.

If you think the police are guilty of a crime, you will be punished for making the accusation.  The burden of proof is never on the police, yet they are the guardians of evidence.  If there is evidence damning them, they will destroy it.  If there is no evidence challenging your credibility, they will create it.  They can charge you with anything they want in retaliation, and they can prove it by saying it is so.

Do not fark with police.  Stay the fark away from police.  Do not call the police unless you are going to die otherwise.  Do not call them to protect property.  Do not call them to catch someone else breaking the law.  Do not give the police any reason whatsoever to know your name.

*adjusts tinfoil hat*
 
2014-03-19 03:06:03 PM

walkerhound: simkatu: 69gnarkill69:    [oi48.tinypic.com image 726x396]

That's a speed not a measurement of time.

Dependent on how far the target is at the time.  He basically gave you an equation for "X" and you're too dumb to solve it.


Solved for "X" in dog-time.

www.petpro.com

/they make them for guns as well, but I wanted to post this since I actually have it up on our front gate.
 
2014-03-19 03:08:42 PM

hardinparamedic: Prophet of Loss: Hardin and 12 - Fark's resident cop apologists.

/Isolated incident

Please quote where I have "apologized" for anything. I spent six months defending myself along with a non-commissioned deputy against a false sexual assault charge because I cut the clothes off a drunk teenager to ensure she didn't have a life-threatening injury. Somehow, despite a woman deputy in the back with this little tart, we both managed to tag-team rape her in-between the scene and the Regional Medical Center.

Oh, wait. This is where you go "LOL I TROLL U", right?


You cut off her clothes...was there a massive amount of blood or something? Never mind, I don't want to know.

Anyway, that kind of crap happens all the time when you piss somebody off. Ex. We had a Lady file a formal complaint with the President of my company, because we caught her kid trying to steal stuff. Our legal department is so letigiphobic (if it's not a word, it is now) that I was wondering if we were all going to get canned over it.
 
2014-03-19 03:09:17 PM

hardinparamedic: FTFA: acknowledging that if their allegations are proven false, they can be charged with perjury,

Pretty okay with this, provided the underlined portions are held true. Should be a case by case basis, not another idiotic "Zero Tolerance" law.


I'm going to have to disagree with you on this one.  You're obviously thinking like normal people here instead of someone with malicious intent.  With "proven false" it can be opened up to simple mistakes.  Say a witnesses name was Will Johnson and it's really John Williamson; bang, perjury charge.  Say officer Bill showed up first when it was officer Adam; bang, perjury charge.  There's an entire laundry list that "proven false" can be applied to.  You and I might say that would be stretching the law, but a malicious prosecutor could intimidate potential complaintants with it.

If the Kansas Legislature was actually wanting to be fair, they should have phrased it like "proven fabrication" so intent to lie was also included.
 
2014-03-19 03:09:34 PM

hardinparamedic: Prophet of Loss: Hardin and 12 - Fark's resident cop apologists.

/Isolated incident

Please quote where I have "apologized" for anything.


If you don't know what the word "apologist" means, there are resources.  Sarcasm quotes do not help you.
 
2014-03-19 03:13:57 PM
I think there should be civilian over-sight.  No internal affairs BS.  A complaint should be made to a non-police group with investigative powers.  If police are needed during an investigation they should be pulled from far flung regions far away from where the alleged abuse happened.

Any police officer caught planting evidence should get the same number of years that would have befallen their victim.  Any police officer that forgets they are there to protect and serve should be fired....and banned from law enforcement forever.
 
2014-03-19 03:15:31 PM

Skyd1v: walkerhound: simkatu: 69gnarkill69:    [oi48.tinypic.com image 726x396]

That's a speed not a measurement of time.

Dependent on how far the target is at the time.  He basically gave you an equation for "X" and you're too dumb to solve it.

Solved for "X" in dog-time.

[www.petpro.com image 150x150]

/they make them for guns as well, but I wanted to post this since I actually have it up on our front gate.


I have this one on my front door:
img.auctiva.com

*his name was Ruger
 
2014-03-19 03:15:43 PM

ciberido: Sarcasm quotes do not help you.


Well, since the intent wasn't picked up on, they were meant to demonstrate the amount of farks I give.

Instead, I'll present a handy, dandy pie chart on the amount I give of your personal opinion of me.

global3.memecdn.com

If you seriously can't take every case on a case-by-case basis while claiming to be open and rational, without resorting to argumentum ad odium as your justification for hating a group, then by all means, whatever lets you sleep at night.

iheartscotch: You cut off her clothes...was there a massive amount of blood or something? Never mind, I don't want to know.


Drunk and ejected was no way to go through life. The sexual assault claims magically appeared when her lawyer told her they used our field lab draw to get her BAL.
 
2014-03-19 03:15:45 PM
The cops where I live all seem pretty good if you act normal. Must be the high pensions.
 
2014-03-19 03:17:31 PM

codenamewizard: I think there should be civilian over-sight.  No internal affairs BS.  A complaint should be made to a non-police group with investigative powers.  If police are needed during an investigation they should be pulled from far flung regions far away from where the alleged abuse happened.

Any police officer caught planting evidence should get the same number of years that would have befallen their victim.  Any police officer that forgets they are there to protect and serve should be fired....and banned from law enforcement forever.


License cops the same they do Nurses, Doctors and Paramedics. At the State level. Establish a board made up of lawyers, civilian members, and experts in law enforcement best practices. Require every cop to carry "malpractice" insurance the same they do healthcare providers and firefighters.

No local investigations of wrongdoing.
 
2014-03-19 03:18:04 PM
♫ ♪ When I fight authority, authority always wins. ♪ ♫
 
2014-03-19 03:19:29 PM
I hate pigs, but on the scale of things to get outraged about "make it criminal to lie on a police complaint" falls pretty far down the list. I'm actually a lot more outraged at the "you can't investigate if another law enforcement org found in favor of the cop" part.
 
2014-03-19 03:19:41 PM

69gnarkill69: shanrick: [i.imgur.com image 850x223]

[oi48.tinypic.com image 726x396]


That's faster than light. Unpossible.
 
2014-03-19 03:25:48 PM

walkerhound: He basically gave you an equation for "X" and you're too dumb to solve it.


check out the hook while dj revolves it.
 
2014-03-19 03:26:34 PM
my.

..my dj...

/that joke is ruined now, RUINED!
 
2014-03-19 03:30:43 PM

busy chillin': my.

..my dj...

/that joke is ruined now, RUINED!


Hey, I still thought it was funny.

/but I'm weird
 
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