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(The Raw Story)   Feminist woman says she doesn't want to have children. Twitter responds in expected fashion   (rawstory.com) divider line 123
    More: Obvious, Twitter, feminists, photo archive, bad faith, abortion debate, fashions  
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10548 clicks; posted to Main » on 19 Mar 2014 at 1:24 PM (32 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



Voting Results (Smartest)
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2014-03-19 12:52:08 PM  
14 votes:

Marcus Aurelius: The fundamental problem of the internet is that anyone is allowed to participate, regardless of how utterly retarded or completely ignorant they may be.


You could say the same thing about parenting.
2014-03-19 12:14:41 PM  
12 votes:
When only one segment of a population is subjected to limitations on their right to determine the course of their lives, something is wrong in that society.

This conversation isn't about children. It's about women and how free or not they are. Having children is a leading cause of poverty in this country for women. We do not have free preschools run by the government. We do not offer paid maternity leave. Pregnancy is very hard on women physically and is actually more dangerous than abortions. And children are insanely expensive.

I love children. I have many in my life and I enjoy playing with them. Cooking with and for them. Even watching Dora. I was a nanny for a life-long friend and her wonderful husband for six years. The eldest is getting her driver's license today and I am more than a little traumatized by that fact.

I am not selfish. I am not lazy. Or fickle. But I never wanted children.

And I am not alone. Fewer women are choosing to have children. And fewer are having abortions. BC is almost completely effective and almost universally available. (Now finally.) I imagine those rates will continue to decline as millions of women gain access to control over their bodies.

The idea of blaming women for not having children when it is such a burden in this country is flat out misogyny. What about all the childless men? Are they monsters? Do we look at them and think awful things about them?
2014-03-19 12:07:02 PM  
11 votes:

Nabb1: After reading that article, I think she is making the right call because she comes off as way too self-absorbed to be a parent.


I don't get self absorbed at all. She doesn't want kids, and she doesn't want to deal with people who either a) tell her she'll change her mind or b) ask what's wrong with her

Believe me. It's farking annoying when people feel that your fertility is a topic of conversation.
2014-03-19 11:31:17 AM  
10 votes:
I think that recognizing that you're too self-absorbed to have children is a good thing.

I'm there.
2014-03-19 11:18:05 AM  
9 votes:
After reading that article, I think she is making the right call because she comes off as way too self-absorbed to be a parent.
2014-03-19 11:35:44 AM  
8 votes:

reprobate1125: I think that recognizing that you're too self-absorbed to have children is a good thing.


I do too, but for some people, there is no good reason not to have children. A lot of people can't even process the concept of not wanting children, so they assume something is wrong with people who don't.
2014-03-19 11:24:27 AM  
8 votes:
The fundamental problem of the internet is that anyone is allowed to participate, regardless of how utterly retarded or completely ignorant they may be.
2014-03-19 01:34:08 PM  
6 votes:

ManateeGag


Why do people (not saying you) have to tell us that we are horrible people for the decisions we make in our lives?


Because your decisions are not the same as theirs and they are now terrified that they made the wrong choices.

Or they never actually realized that they had a choice (e.g. not to have kids), went with the flow, and are now terrified that they made the wrong choices.
2014-03-19 01:29:27 PM  
6 votes:
I keep hearing that Twitter is used for revolutions and empowerment all across the Middle East, but all I see it used for is public slapfights between loudmouths.

Maybe they get a different Twitter than we do.
2014-03-19 11:38:40 AM  
6 votes:

sigdiamond2000: reprobate1125: I think that recognizing that you're too self-absorbed to have children is a good thing.

I do too, but for some people, there is no good reason not to have children. A lot of people can't even process the concept of not wanting children, so they assume something is wrong with people who don't.


Those people are just as wrong as people who can't think of any justification for having kids. Parenting is hard work. You can't put yourself first again until they are able to take care of themselves. It's not for everyone. I know irresponsible people who shouldn't have kids and great people who would make great parents if they tried but choose not to.
2014-03-19 01:38:24 PM  
5 votes:

Philibuster: My wife and I get constantly asked when we are going to have kids. She's 28 I'm 29, and we have absolutely no interest in having them. She works with kids daily, and I work with sick kids daily, that is more than enough for us.

I have heard everything on the bingo board at least twice...I don't understand what is so damn interesting about my reproductive status for uninvolved parties.


When people ask if Mrs. PCoC and I have kids, I always tell them, "Oh, we can't have kids."

The reason I do this is because about half the time, the person will say, "Really? Why not?"

And then I can reply, "Because we farkin' hate them."
2014-03-19 11:43:06 AM  
5 votes:

Nabb1: After reading that article, I think she is making the right call because she comes off as way too self-absorbed to be a parent.


Which is exactly why I am never going to have kids. I wish more people would be honest with themselves about parenthood.
2014-03-19 01:50:00 PM  
4 votes:
I think her point isn't so much that "people who disagree with me reacted to my article," but that their comments reveal that it's not about life as much as it's about controlling women's sexuality.  I don't think that's true of everyone or even the majority of pro-lifers, but it's definitely a strong undercurrent.
2014-03-19 01:49:24 PM  
4 votes:

GanjSmokr: "The official line of anti-choicers..."

I'm pro-choice, but saying "pro-lifers" are "anti-choicers" is about as stupid as saying "pro-choicers" are "anti-lifers".


Pro-choice = "It's your choice to terminate the pregnancy."
Pro-life = "Your pregnancy must be maintained at all costs."
Anti-choice = "You don't have a choice, you must have children or you're a failure as a human being."
2014-03-19 01:47:31 PM  
4 votes:

Rapmaster2000: A hysterectomy costs about 10 grand with time off of work for recovery thrown in. I'd say you're out about $15k on average.


A tubal ligation is not a hysterectomy.
2014-03-19 01:32:48 PM  
4 votes:
A feminist is someone with the radical notion that women are men's rightful superiors.
2014-03-19 01:32:30 PM  
4 votes:
Meh, this is Amanda Marcotte, the author who all but accused a kid of rape for asking a celebrity to his prom over youtube.  Take her with a grain of salt.
2014-03-19 12:17:55 PM  
4 votes:

what_now: Nabb1: After reading that article, I think she is making the right call because she comes off as way too self-absorbed to be a parent.

I don't get self absorbed at all. She doesn't want kids, and she doesn't want to deal with people who either a) tell her she'll change her mind or b) ask what's wrong with her

Believe me. It's farking annoying when people feel that your fertility is a topic of conversation.


She wrote and published a column about her fertility choices. She then took umbrage when some people took issue with her opinions (and some of those angry comments she highlighted were directed at her calling children "time-sucking monsters") and wrote another column about how dare they! Okay, fine, it's her choice and her choice alone, but when you go around writing columns calling children "time-sucking monsters", you are obviously trying to goad people into a response, and whose time would be "sucked" if she had kids? Hers. Yes, her time is so precious that any offspring that she bore would be "monsters" for daring to demand any of it. Her entire position revolves around "me, me, me, me, me" and most of her preceding column was devoted to demeaning and belittling people who don't agree with her philosophy and then a bunch of self-absorbed twaddle about how unappealing everything is to her.

Oh, and she's a terrible writer.
2014-03-19 11:46:11 AM  
4 votes:
I'm definitely not trying to sound all self-righteous because my job sounds a lot better than I personally am, but I've dedicated my life to building orphanages and clinics around the world and that would be extremely difficult to do if I had kids. Notice that I didn't say impossibly, but I've chosen to (some would say sacrifice) by not having kids of my own be able to help a lot more kids.
2014-03-19 03:45:37 PM  
3 votes:

ginandbacon: To believe it would is frankly bizarre. There are only 3? (I think--it might be 2) doctors who have clinics for late term abortions and they are medical procedures that are emergencies and devastating for the parents who have to go through them.


Nobody goes through 8.5 months of pregnancy and all the associated horrors and woes and says "ya know what? I changed my mind." It just doesn't happen. It's a sick fantasy of the anti-choice movement that women everywhere are getting JUST to the point of going into labor, and running off to evil abortion clinics who can't wait to abort that about to be born baby. They even set a clock to see if they can beat it. And then they take the products of that last second abortion, roast it over a fire  (and that's the ONLY way it can be prepared, it's part of the ritual) and all partake in a joyous late-term abortion feast.

In reality, anyone having an abortion in the third trimester is going through some serious shiat and is likely to die without said abortion, assuming there is even anything close to alive inside them. And they're having a hard time because they almost carried their pregnancy to term and there were literally no other options at that point. Those people, everyone should feel bad for, not use them as examples of run of the mill abortions that are not even close to developed babies.
2014-03-19 03:39:00 PM  
3 votes:

MadMattressMack: ginandbacon: MadMattressMack: udhq: CanisNoir: Umm, not wanting someone to murder another human being as a form of "birth control" isn't exactly a moral hang up so much as just common decency.

That a fetus is a human being is your belief, and yours alone, and it is not supported by ANY science on the matter.  It is merely a point of dogma, and shouldn't be used as a pretext to strip the basic human rights from someone who does not accept it as such.

To believe so, you also must believe that a woman who chooses to have sex surrenders the very ownership of her body to the government for the gestational period.

I'd agree with you to a point. You can't have an abortion at 8 months and 29 days because you decided you don't want it. I'm against abortion of viable fetuses outside of health concerns for the mother and / or fetus.

Give me examples of women doing this.

I can't nor do I care to look up a case. But to believe it wouldn't happen is naive.


To believe it would is frankly bizarre. There are only 3? (I think--it might be 2) doctors who have clinics for late term abortions and they are medical procedures that are emergencies and devastating for the parents who have to go through them.

Dr. Tiller was murdered because of made up crap like you are spouting.
2014-03-19 02:00:29 PM  
3 votes:

GanjSmokr: "The official line of anti-choicers..."

I'm pro-choice, but saying "pro-lifers" are "anti-choicers" is about as stupid as saying "pro-choicers" are "anti-lifers".


When these same "pro-lifers" are for the death penalty I think 'anti-choice' is a more accurate term.
2014-03-19 01:49:56 PM  
3 votes:

TheExcalibur: Can't we just all agree anything with a heart beat has rights and go from there?


Plenty of people are removed from life support / feeding tube withdrawn / etc., even if there is nothing wrong with their heart.  It's the brain that makes someone a person rather than a vegetable.
2014-03-19 01:43:07 PM  
3 votes:
I have two kids. Its awesome.

Other people dont want kids, thats awesome.

Heck I prefer to be friends with childless people. Its a lot easier to hang out with them because they dont have  to find a sitter :P
2014-03-19 01:37:28 PM  
3 votes:

Unoriginal_Username: People shouldn't care who has kids or who doesn't. My only question for her is this. If you don't want kids why not get your tubes tied? And doctors shouldn't be able to ask why, just do it. Same for guys getting a vasectomy. The reasons don't matter. It's what they want.


A hysterectomy costs about 10 grand with time off of work for recovery thrown in.  I'd say you're out about $15k on average.

A vasectomy makes more sense because it's reversible, you don't have final control over whether the child is birthed, and you're fertile for the rest of your life.
2014-03-19 01:34:54 PM  
3 votes:
I'm almost 43 years old. I didn't want kids early on in life and I sure as fark don't want any now. I feel like I'm doing society a favor.
2014-03-19 01:34:19 PM  
3 votes:
blog.estately.com
2014-03-19 01:33:19 PM  
3 votes:

vartian: Nabb1: After reading that article, I think she is making the right call because she comes off as way too self-absorbed to be a parent.

Which is exactly why I am never going to have kids. I wish more people would be honest with themselves about parenthood.


I really get tired of people insisting that me and my wife would be great parents. We bloody well know that we'd be terrible at it, so why put ourselves and some innocent kid through that gauntlet.
2014-03-19 01:26:37 PM  
3 votes:
img.fark.net

/oblig
2014-03-19 11:46:02 AM  
3 votes:

Nabb1: sigdiamond2000: reprobate1125: I think that recognizing that you're too self-absorbed to have children is a good thing.

I do too, but for some people, there is no good reason not to have children. A lot of people can't even process the concept of not wanting children, so they assume something is wrong with people who don't.

Those people are just as wrong as people who can't think of any justification for having kids. Parenting is hard work. You can't put yourself first again until they are able to take care of themselves. It's not for everyone. I know irresponsible people who shouldn't have kids and great people who would make great parents if they tried but choose not to.


people think my wife and I would make great parents (don't ask me why, I have no bloody idea) - neither of us really want kids, and we get a ton of shiat for it from people who think they know everything about our lives and how we live.  Why do people (not saying you) have to tell us that we are horrible people for the decisions we make in our lives?
2014-03-19 11:15:22 AM  
3 votes:
Yes, yes.. people who express their opinions over opinions you've expressed are assholes.  We know that.
2014-03-20 02:02:41 AM  
2 votes:

People_are_Idiots: ginandbacon: People_are_Idiots: FMLA is sort of paid, again depending on the business. Even my mother's workplace (a miniscule second-hand store) used FMLA is the form of PTO

38% of PART-TIME workers in this country have no PTO. None.

FTFY. Also note that 90% of full-time workers currently get some form of PTO (my mother's workplace offered PTO for vacation or sick usage (including FMLA), whereas my time off is seperated between sick and vacation). http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/paid-vacation-what-are-rights- 3 3485.html

And women are more likely than men to not have it.

[citation needed]. This one disagrees. http://money.cnn.com/2012/08/16/news/economy/paid-time-off/

"The breakdown by race and gender showed barely any gap between men and women, or whites and blacks -- an encouraging sign, said Heather Boushey, senior economist with the Center for American Progress."

Typically, those working with less income usually means less of an education.

Free preschool is free childcare. We don't have that. We're pretty much the only developed nation that doesn't. And we don't have paid maternity leave. Same thing.

Again, even my father agrees, why do you -need- pre-school? If you want daycare, there are many available and more affordable. You can even hire a babysitter (my mother had a babysitter for us, when my father and her were UNEMPLOYED), or use a relative for free (preferably one you trust). Let kids be kids, instill some respect and discipline, and send them to school.


I hesitate to engage with you, because i have seen some of your previous completely absurd claims (like water needs to be brought back to life).

But i will just point out that headstart, the free pre-school program for low income families, is the most effective federal program of all time in America. It provides nutrition, early intervention for detecting developmental delays. Language skills for those raised in a home without English.

It helps poor children get more of an equal chance in school, prevents them from being held back once they start elem school. It teaches social skills and has innumerable other benefits, I'm sure it would be easy to google the proven results.

The fact is, it saves tax-payers money in the long run, with less kids dropping out of school because they were so far behind when they started they could never catch up.

Do i think it should be mandatory? No. Do i think federally-funded pre-school has a proven track record for increasing chances of success later in life? Yes.
2014-03-20 12:55:43 AM  
2 votes:

Unoriginal_Username: People shouldn't care who has kids or who doesn't. My only question for her is this. If you don't want kids why not get your tubes tied? And doctors shouldn't be able to ask why, just do it. Same for guys getting a vasectomy. The reasons don't matter. It's what they want.


Because doctors are insanely resistant to doing that for women who haven't already got kids. Why, I don't know, but it's practically impossible to get them to agree to it. (Much more so than about giving men a vasectomy.)
2014-03-19 08:33:36 PM  
2 votes:

People_are_Idiots: FMLA is sort of paid, again depending on the business. Even my mother's workplace (a miniscule second-hand store) used FMLA is the form of PTO


38% of workers in this country have no PTO. None. And women are more likely than men to not have it. The average wage (in 2012) for workers with no paid time off was $10. Women are more likely to work in lower paying jobs and have less disposable income and less personal wealth. About 40% of births in this country are to unwed mothers.and about half of all mothers will be single parents at some point while they are raising children. Something like 80% work more than 30 hours a week. Roughly a quarter of the children in this country live below the poverty threshold. More than 41% of the homeless in the US are families with children.

Free preschool is free childcare. We don't have that. We're pretty much the only developed nation that doesn't. And we don't have paid maternity leave. Same thing.

Again. If you want more babies, make it easier to have them.
2014-03-19 05:14:33 PM  
2 votes:

People_are_Idiots: As far as "free" preschool, A kid taught right doesn't need preschool


Tell that to all the children killed by their caregivers before being old enough for school. Getting children into regular social contact with people outside their families is one of the best and cheapest ways to protect them from abuses of all sorts and should be done as early as possible. It doesn't have to be anything like "school" but we should not force children to live in isolation for the 6 most vulnerable years of their lives.

It's also worth noting that not every kid has the opportunity to be "taught right" by whoever happened to spawn them. We shouldn't punish children for having bad parents; we should ensure that all children are "taught right" even if their parents are unable or unwilling.
2014-03-19 03:59:08 PM  
2 votes:

MadMattressMack: What made up crap am I spouting? Do you honestly believe that if it were legal for any person anywhere to go get a late term abortion that it wouldn't happen? Diffuculty: you must include Florida and drug addicts.

I know it's not legal for that crap to happen and agree with the current laws that prohibit it. But without said laws, do you really think it would never happen?

And Dr. Tiller definitely wasn't murdered for the crap I'm spouting. He was murdered by an schizo who thought he was doing something that he wasn't - namely providing illegal late term abortions.


No, nobody thinks anyone would go through a pregnancy just to have a late term abortion. The notion is simply absurd. And the fact that people think people would, or that doctors would provide them "just because" is precisely why Dr. Tiller was murdered. Because people think that there is a demand for, and people are obtaining, late term abortions when that could not be further from the truth.  The fact that it was someone with schizophrenia (not sure if that is even true) would make it worse because they'd be more likely to believe the lies.
2014-03-19 02:59:30 PM  
2 votes:

Satan's Bunny Slippers: Quite honestly, your statement makes me a little angry. Like you're implying that all women must have children for the good of the country or something.


I think you are spot on here.  I've gotten this line before too, "But what if the baby you never plan on having was going to be the next Einstein?"  They pretend like it's a compliment ("You are good enough to create the next Einstein") but really the implication is that you should be having kids for the good of the country/world/universe and if you don't then you are selfish.
2014-03-19 02:55:43 PM  
2 votes:

People_are_Idiots: hm, might point this out. Without children, we won't have a healthy society of smart people. Idiocracy in action.


Please explain to me why this factors into a woman's choice to have or not have kids?  Not one person in here has said "no women should have children".

Quite honestly, your statement makes me a little angry.  Like you're implying that all women must have children for the good of the country or something.

Now, I'll hold off on my opinion of your statement until I get clarification.  But it still raises the hackles.
2014-03-19 02:24:36 PM  
2 votes:

CanisNoir: ginandbacon: The idea of blaming women for not having children when it is such a burden in this country is flat out misogyny. What about all the childless men? Are they monsters? Do we look at them and think awful things about them?

I think the major problem most had with this persons decisions was that despite saying she never wanted children, she would still rather kill an unborn child rather than get her tubes tied.

You don't want kids, cool, there's too many of us as it is, but don't spout that you're going to use Abortion to kill off any "oopsies" that occur simply because you don't want kids, but didn't bother to take care of the potential problem permanently, and expect the pro-lifers to not make hay over it.



Who the fark are you or anyone to tell a woman what sort of birth control she HAS to use to be acceptable in your eyes? Again, who are the real self-absorbed people in this?
2014-03-19 02:05:29 PM  
2 votes:

TheExcalibur: Can't we just all agree anything with a heart beat has rights and go from there?

This pro-choice pro-life rhetoric/garbage just hides the fact that no one wants to sit down and define what constitutes "life"


Not when anti-choicers put up billboards that claim there's a heartbeat at 18 days, no.
2014-03-19 01:59:59 PM  
2 votes:
Except she didn't simply state she "doesn't want to have children". She wrote a deliberately-provocative article describing children as time-consuming monsters, then went into damsel-in-distress mode the moment the people she provoked fired invective back at her.

In other words she's a click-baiting troll.
2014-03-19 01:57:48 PM  
2 votes:

Pincy: In my perfect world, tubals and vascetomies would be free. Pro-lifers should support this as well because it would help reduce the number of abortions.


That does not punish the sluts.
2014-03-19 01:53:47 PM  
2 votes:

GanjSmokr: "The official line of anti-choicers..."

I'm pro-choice, but saying "pro-lifers" are "anti-choicers" is about as stupid as saying "pro-choicers" are "anti-lifers".


but it is more accurate. Pro-lifers don't act like they are pro life. They just don't want those who are pregnant the right to choose to abort or not. They offer nothing in terms of a better option. You know, something that speaks of a better life.
2014-03-19 01:46:18 PM  
2 votes:

Philibuster: My wife and I get constantly asked when we are going to have kids. She's 28 I'm 29, and we have absolutely no interest in having them. She works with kids daily, and I work with sick kids daily, that is more than enough for us.

I have heard everything on the bingo board at least twice...I don't understand what is so damn interesting about my reproductive status for uninvolved parties.


It's my theory that the people that run down those who do not wish to have children are usually people who've had children, but cannot bring themselves to admit that they wish they hadn't. I'm 38,like being alone,  have never liked children and I know that if I ever did have one I would resent it and would want nothing at all to do with it. Yes, I'm probably an asshole, but at least I have the self awareness enough to know that I have absolutely no business being responsible for a child. That sure shuts 'em up when people start telling me how much I'm going to regret not having kids though.
2014-03-19 01:44:44 PM  
2 votes:

Prank Call of Cthulhu: [blog.estately.com image 777x419]


That is clever and funny. But also probably doesn't fully translate. My wife and I are pretty much broke all the time but I would much rather have my kids than money. Money and kids would be ideal, of course. Some day. Maybe.

But I don't care if others don't have kids. And as said, if someone doesn't want kids, they shouldn't have them.

It goes back to many people thinking their opinion is the right one, and if someone has a different opinion on the same issue, the other person HAS TO BE WRONG!
2014-03-19 01:41:49 PM  
2 votes:

Because People in power are Stupid: A feminist is someone with the radical notion that women are men's rightful superiors.


It shouldn't be, but in many cases that is the atitude feminists take. Anything beyond striving for equality and you lose any moral high ground. Also, arguing for superiority is very unlikely to succeed.
2014-03-19 01:36:30 PM  
2 votes:

ristst: vartian: Which is exactly why I am never going to have kids. I wish more people would be honest with themselves about parenthood.

I used to say this and mean it.  But after I became a parent I realized how wrong I was.  I can't imagine my life without my daughter, she's awesome.


In other words, you are wrong vartian, you clearly don't know yourself as well as ristst does.
2014-03-19 01:34:59 PM  
2 votes:
"The official line of anti-choicers..."

I'm pro-choice, but saying "pro-lifers" are "anti-choicers" is about as stupid as saying "pro-choicers" are "anti-lifers".
2014-03-19 01:31:57 PM  
2 votes:
Some people should not have kids.  I consider it a gift to the human race if they figure this out before they breed.  Instead of criticizing these people we should be honoring them.
2014-03-19 01:27:26 PM  
2 votes:

James!: Marcus Aurelius: The fundamental problem of the internet is that anyone is allowed to participate, regardless of how utterly retarded or completely ignorant they may be.

You could say the same thing about parenting.



media.tumblr.com
2014-03-19 12:33:37 PM  
2 votes:
I may look at a person/couple and think WTF are they doing with a child.  Based on my opinion of their intelligence, personal choices and lifestyle (not sexuality, way of living) it just seems stupid as hell for them to have a baby.

I may look at people and say they should NEVER have children because I don't believe they are cut out to be parents.

But I will never question a person/couple who have determined that they do not want to become parents.  They know their life so much better than I do and know something that I don't about it which says "no children for me".

Like the person up thread who doesn't want children because they build orphanages and clinics around the world.  They made a tough for them choice not to have children so they can help so many more.
2014-03-20 01:23:19 AM  
1 votes:

miscreant: Rapmaster2000: A hysterectomy costs about 10 grand with time off of work for recovery thrown in. I'd say you're out about $15k on average.

A tubal ligation is not a hysterectomy.


True, however, it's also not a vasectomy. From Wikipedia: "Tubal ligation is considered major surgery requiring the patient to undergo spinal anesthesia.... The corresponding male surgical sterilization procedure known as vasectomy is is considered minor surgery done with local anesthesia and typically done in an outpatient setting." And then goes on to say it's only 99% effective the first year, with decreasing effectiveness after that, AND when it fails, about a fifth of the resulting pregnancies are (very dangerous) ectopic pregnancies. Why would you put yourself at such a terrible risk when IUDs, hormonal, and barrier methods are just as effective and DON'T involve major surgery and spinal anesthesia?

Plus, since you still ovulate, you still have periods and PMS and all that jazz. And since you still have your uterus, unlike a hysterectomy, if you have endometriosis or uterine cysts, it does nothing to help. Control of one or more of these issues are the major reason a lot of women take the Pill in the first place. So a lot of women still can't go off the birth control they're on by getting this.

And for the pro-life (and the would-rather-prevent-than-abort) crowd... if you DO get pregnant after getting this, you HAVE to get an abortion, only with much more dangerous surgery, because the pregnancy is non-viable and endangers your life. So yeah, just a bad plan all around.

/never wants kids
//never getting this done either
///you can have my Pills when you pry them from my cold dead uterus!
2014-03-19 11:52:21 PM  
1 votes:
And we're starting to rank 1st in overall "hooray for me, f*ck you* socioeconomic policies.  Thank goodness Putin is  showing his ass to the world.  Maybe that will shift the world's attentive gaze from this plain as the balls on a tall dog fact that we are turning into a third world sh*thole with the few wiping their asses with the many while we fight over sh*t like this.


Affordable health care?  We h turning turning out 9th graders who can't even spell on their f*cking 700.00 phone keypad. Women's issues?  To be fair, there's not as many actual factual women's "issues" that need public attention, but the ones that do?  We do f*ck all about it.


We suck at everything.  Badly.  We're number one?  At what?  Criminals in expensive suits and German cars?  GAng violence?  fractured families?  Gullibility? Absurd news stories?  Ripping each other a new ass every time some mongoloid we voted into office tells us that "~n demographic is "ruining our fair nation! excoriate them!"?


If we can't see past the few dozen football games we're given to play with while cocksuckers inc. dismantles the ground under our feet, we deserve to suck.  It's all just little football matches.  Yeah, this one, too.  Now you go out and you pick up one of those flags and you bark a lot of venom at everybody not carrying that flag!  For democracy!
2014-03-19 11:36:09 PM  
1 votes:

Bit'O'Gristle: I really don't have a problem with a gf or wife not wanting / or not ready to have a baby. I do have issue with them killing my child without asking if i might like to raise it. yes yes, i know...my body..blah blah blah...but ....1/2 of that babies genetic material comes from the father, who has been reduced to a monthly check at best, and a non person with no say at worst. I wonder how a woman would feel if she had to ask the man if he agreed to an abortion first? Oh yes, they would just do it anyway behind his back. I forgot. Interesting, isn't it, if i falcon punch a pregnant woman, and cause her to lose her baby, thats murder. If she does an abortion, (the same result) its ok? Hmmm. Odd society we live in.


Sucks to be a man, doesn't it.  If only we could have the babies.  Maybe some day science will make that possible.  For the meantime we'll just have to try and and live with the burden that nature didn't give us a uterus.
2014-03-19 09:17:47 PM  
1 votes:

Osomatic: You - and a hell of a lot of other people on this thread - are missing the point of the article.  It wasn't that she was mad that people had reacted, it was that the reactions showed that the pro-lifers' motivation isn't life, it's control of women's sexuality.  Now, there's probably a counter-argument to be made there, but that's what she was getting at, not "boo hoo, they were mean to me."


She is whining. That entire last paragraph is nothing but "look at these horrible people and the horrible mean things they say."

This is despite the fact that all of the tweets less one (the one about the armpits) don't even remotely address her central thesis that these people want to enforce traditional gender roles on her with their stance on abortion. Most of them, as a matter of fact, take issue with the fact that she doesn't like kids, and don't even remotely touch on gender roles.

Censuring people because they don't like kids isn't specific to women - as this thread has made clear - and it isn't about gender. Men who don't like kids get the same sort of hate all the farking time. She isn't special in this.

All of this is aside from the fact that she spends the entirety of the rest of the article strawmanning up pro-life side.

Are there crazy pro-lifers out there? You bet your ass. But I know many people pro-life people that start from the fundamental principle that the highest duty of society is to protect those that cannot protect themselves. It isn't about enforcing gender roles and making women get in the kitchen and know there place - it is an explicit argument that as an adult, someone made the choice to have sex (leaving out rape, of course). The adult has made thus made their choice, and as an adult needs to act like an adult and do the responsible thing and provide for their offspring.

I don't feel that way - I am entirely agnostic on the abortion issue and frankly couldn't care one way or another. But I know principled pro-lifers and I know scumbag pro-lifers, just like I know good and bad pro-choice people.

But the twitter responses she posted had about fark all to do with enforcing gender roles. She obviously hates kids and - NEWS FLASH - as people's stories (and yes, whining and biatching) in this thread have revealed, men get it just as much as women do. Not liking kids is NOT considered a positive social value because society - particularly the American snowflake society - consider children to be THE most important part of life. Children are our future and our legacy, after all, young innocents who should be protected and encouraged by the community at all times (or so they say)

So yeah, she's whining. And she's projecting so hard she's entirely missed the point: people aren't jumping on her because they are tools of the patriarchy and want to force her to live barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen.

People are jumping on her because she is obviously a miserable farking person that whines about tangential feminist bullshiat like gender roles and oppression when she goes against the grain and tells the world that she really, really farking hates kids, and that rather than undergoing medical sterilization she's just going to terminate any child she does conceive because they are little monsters that won't leave her any time for her own life.

What did she think would happen when she called kids "monsters"? I'm betting exactly what she thought was going to happen is exactly what happened. Which gives her license to write a follow up clickbait article to the first clickbait article.

So yes: whiny attention whore trolling with clickbait. The only other thing I've gotten out of this is that I need to add her to my troll twitter account because she sure as hell can't take criticism worth a damn - anybody that criticizes her is obviously a tool of the patriarchy trying to send her back to 1850.
2014-03-19 09:12:34 PM  
1 votes:
Wow.  Seems like with the big Pro-Life cheering section, Octomom would have much more public support.  Hell, people should send her money for being such a fine example of reproductivity.
2014-03-19 08:44:52 PM  
1 votes:
Anti-abortion.
Anti-gay.
Anti-contraception.

There seems to be a theme there for those of a particular fundamental political persuasion. And that theme is, get popping those kids out.
2014-03-19 08:18:33 PM  
1 votes:

Bit'O'Gristle: Interesting, isn't it, if i falcon punch a pregnant woman, and cause her to lose her baby, thats murder. If she does an abortion, (the same result) its ok? Hmmm. Odd society we live in.


If I burn down your shed, it's called arson.

If you burn down your shed (the same result), it's called removing a dangerous eyesore.

Hmmm. Odd society we live in.
2014-03-19 07:47:13 PM  
1 votes:
I`m not going to bother reading the thread.

You all have it wrong. You should have to have a good reason TO have a child, not the other way around. I see this cognitive dissonance as the cause of a lot of the issues people have with this topic.

Anyone who has already said this, high five.
2014-03-19 07:27:10 PM  
1 votes:

tlars699: Ringshadow: Not so cool story, SIs.

*reads your story*
o_O
That, right there, is sexual harassment.
No, he didn't hit on you, but he made you feel uncomfortable at your job because of your sex.

What if you wanted to be a dude? (Not saying you do, just a "what if" that this guy clearly didn't think of)

And marriage=/= kids. It's one of the reasons some people are motivated to do so, not all of them.

Also, he's cool with you having kids outside of marriage? (NTTAWWT; see bio) but WTF?!


I have no idea. The whole situation was just farking strange, which is pretty much how I feel every time someone has a meltdown about me being childfree. I did kinda wanna ask how many baby mammas he had.

/should have.
2014-03-19 07:13:58 PM  
1 votes:

CanisNoir: udhq: I think you shouldn't presume your moral dogma has any place in anybody else's decision to have sex or not.

Nobody is talking about whether or not you or anyone else has sex, they're talking about taking responsability for your actions. It's not like the fact that sex can cause pregnancy is some huge big secret that you're surprised with when it happens. So, take care to wrap it up, or what ever other contraception methods you want, and odds are very good you won't have a problem. Sure, contraception doesn't work 100% of the time, guess what, life's not fair, it works enough that risking killing another human being because you're afraid you might be the .01% outlier is ludicrous.


WTF? So do you think birth control is or isn't risking human life? Or was this post supposed to be a thinly veiled promotion of abstinence till menopause?
2014-03-19 06:41:45 PM  
1 votes:

bunner: Osomatic: How do you explain censorship laws, laws against pornography, regulations about profanity on television, laws regulating sexuality, etc etc etc?

As neasr as I can tell, it has something to do with not wanting four year olds to sit around watching guys suck off goats in a tub full of pudding while sh*ttin themselves between My Little Pony and Maury.  I could be wrong.


And thank goodness we've had laws against sodomy to protect our four-year-olds from seeing that.  And just think of the dangers of letting adults buy magazines with pictures of naked people in them!  Good thing that was thoroughly outlawed for many years.
2014-03-19 05:39:55 PM  
1 votes:

People_are_Idiots: I don't have a problem making it easier, really. If I owned a business, I would make sure that women have the time off. As far as FMLA, it's a federal law, and if a business doesn't allow for it, there is a nice place for them to complain that can hurt them financially if they don't.


Neither (unless I am misunderstanding what you would do) is PAID leave. I know, I had to explain to my employers that they had to let me take time of when my father was dying and the assholes called me every day to ask when I would be back. I finally told them "Sometime after he's dead."

PAID time off is entirely different and would be a huge factor for women thinking about starting a family.
Ant
2014-03-19 05:38:58 PM  
1 votes:

JackieRabbit: Why do they care? I know why: they know they made the wrong choice and they cannot stand that you made the right one.


There is no absolute right or wrong choice. Maybe you meant that they made the wrong choice for themselves.
2014-03-19 05:37:12 PM  
1 votes:

CanisNoir: Nobody is talking about whether or not you or anyone else has sex, they're talking about taking responsability for your actions. It's not like the fact that sex can cause pregnancy is some huge big secret that you're surprised with when it happens. So, take care to wrap it up, or what ever other contraception methods you want, and odds are very good you won't have a problem. Sure, contraception doesn't work 100% of the time, guess what, life's not fair, it works enough that risking killing another human being because you're afraid you might be the .01% outlier is ludicrous.


Sure, I'm just saying that one of the ways that a woman can choose to take responsibility for the choice to have sex is to terminate an unwanted pregnancy as soon as possible when birth control fails, that's all.

That's acceptable to me and to most women.  Whether or not it is to you should only matter to you and your partner, or those who chose to accept that particular point of dogma.
2014-03-19 05:31:25 PM  
1 votes:

Unoriginal_Username: People shouldn't care who has kids or who doesn't. My only question for her is this. If you don't want kids why not get your tubes tied? And doctors shouldn't be able to ask why, just do it. Same for guys getting a vasectomy. The reasons don't matter. It's what they want.


I couldn't $ay. $eem$ $o $trange, in a free country like our$, that $omeone'$ going to avoid a medical procedure...
2014-03-19 05:17:58 PM  
1 votes:

bunner: Osomatic: it was that the reactions showed that the pro-lifers' motivation isn't life, it's control of women's sexuality

It is my assertion that, by and large, the preponderance of the public or any given subset therefrom is ~astoundingly~ uninterested in what people do as long as it doesn't cost them money.  Let alone willing to put any time into controlling it.


How do you explain censorship laws, laws against pornography, regulations about profanity on television, laws regulating sexuality, etc etc etc?  If people didn't care enough to want these laws, they wouldn't exist.  This isn't the work of a few busybodies, it's the product of an entire society that historically has been very much interested in what you get up to behind closed doors.  Our laws may have changed over the years, but the fact that large percentages of the population want to control other people's behavior hasn't.
2014-03-19 05:08:46 PM  
1 votes:

Loaf's Tray: Mitch Taylor's Bro: genner: DArque Bishop: the ha ha guy: GanjSmokr: "The official line of anti-choicers..."

I'm pro-choice, but saying "pro-lifers" are "anti-choicers" is about as stupid as saying "pro-choicers" are "anti-lifers".

Pro-choice = "It's your choice to terminate the pregnancy."
Pro-life = "Your pregnancy must be maintained at all costs."
Anti-choice = "You don't have a choice, you must have children or you're a failure as a human being."

Anti-life =

[img.fark.net image 400x300]

Both terms are propaganda. We should just call them pro-aboriton and and anti-abortion.

I'm down wit dat.

But do you have TIME fo' dat?


Ain't NObody got time fo' dat! :-)

I believe "pro-choice" is a more honest "newspeak" term, but pro-life is largely a farce.*

* There are some pro-life advocates who actually house and care for expectant and new mothers. All they ask is that you listen to their religious recruitment. But most are quite satisfied with preventing women who want to have abortions from having them, then it's mostly "hey, you got yourself into this, you deal with the consequences."
2014-03-19 04:46:09 PM  
1 votes:

tlars699: The other half of this coin are the people who are trying to have kids, but haven't succeeded, and are fed up with answering questions that are really nobody's business.
Good on you for taking it to your supervisor.


I've actually just tried to claim that i can't have kids instead of flat out stating I've been sterilized. It doesn't usually work. So far, nine out of ten dudes are utterly cool with me not having kids (me gusta faces are common), but about four out of ten dudettes lose their shiat at me. I don't like getting supervision involved, trust me. The one time I had to, it was a guy and it was so I didn't punch him out because I have no idea why he thought any of what he said was okay.

The setup was I was waiting to survey a piece of equipment but my survey was dependent on another department's work, so I couldn't leave. I was stuck there for over an hour with this guy, who was going to work on the equipment after I did my thing. So we're both stuck there. Keep in mind this guy is a total stranger to me.

Dude: So are you married.
Me: No.
Him: Kids?
Me: No.
Him: Why not?
Me: Why not what?
Him: Why don't you have kids?
Me: *wtf stare* I'm not married, and I can't have kids.
Him: You don't know that!
Me: I do.
Him: You can't know that.
Me: Yes, I do. Because I paid ten grand making sure of the fact.
Him: What.
Me: Consider this my formal request to drop the topic.
Him: But everyone needs kids! I have seven kids!
Me: Good for you.
Him: That just really makes me wonder about your doctor, I mean you're a healthy..
Me: I'm sorry what? Are you insulting a medical professional who dared listen to my opinion?

At that point work actually happened. I was willing to let it go. UNTIL.

Him: Next time I see you, I want to see you with a wedding ring on your finger and your belly like this. *pregnant belly arm gesture
Me: *RRRAAAAAGE*

So, once we're back in the offices.

Supervisor: How did it go?
Me: ahahh HAHAHAHAHAHAH.
Supervisor: Uh oh.
Me: Please talk to him or I'll be having HR talk to him.

Dude never looked at me again.

/long not so cool story sis.
2014-03-19 04:44:41 PM  
1 votes:
Elegy:

For two, this is on her PUBLIC blog and her PUBLIC twitter feed. If she doesn't want social interaction, private your social media. The internet is the world's largest bathroom wall and billboard all rolled into one. Don't want commentary? Don't write on the wall where everyone can see it.


You - and a hell of a lot of other people on this thread - are missing the point of the article.  It wasn't that she was mad that people had reacted, it was that the reactions showed that the pro-lifers' motivation isn't life, it's control of women's sexuality.  Now, there's probably a counter-argument to be made there, but that's what she was getting at, not "boo hoo, they were mean to me."
2014-03-19 04:37:39 PM  
1 votes:

CanisNoir: verbaltoxin: Argumentum ad populum. Really? Because some people are squicked out by it and their church says no, then it's not birth control?

No, it's not birth control because even the pro-choice side realizes that trying to claim abortion as birth control is stupid and would quickly lose them any moral high ground they had.


It's the "nuclear option" of birth control, but it should still be on the table, available and as safe as possible for women to choose if they want to.
2014-03-19 04:35:11 PM  
1 votes:

Ringshadow: [7deadlysinners.typepad.com image 400x462]

Reblogging because holy shiat I think I've gotten every single one of these questions.
[1.bp.blogspot.com image 453x700]


I've bred, am gestating, and find the breeder bingo posits both present at my workplace, and semi-reprehensible.
I mean- children are a woman's greatest acheivement? REALLY?
2014-03-19 04:31:12 PM  
1 votes:
rzrwiresunrise: 

Okay- I get that she calls them time sucking Monsters. Truth be told they are, really. I love them and they're cuddly, but they pull your hair and sometimes will cry for no reason, and they ARE time-suckers, and needy because (DUH) they're a baby.

And she's very selfish, and protective of her time/her choices.

But the real people who are coonts who think in this manner, and decide to have the baby they made accidentally anyway, and do not change their behavior in any way, shape or form.

She is not a coont; she's biatchy, but she owns the biatchiness.
2014-03-19 04:24:07 PM  
1 votes:

CanisNoir: udhq: To believe so, you also must believe that a woman who chooses to have sex surrenders the very ownership of her body to the government for the gestational period.

No, but I believe she is placing herself in that risk. Having unprotected sex drastically increases the odds one will get pregnant, don't like those odds, you know how to change the equation. We *should* be able to control our baser instincts no? So use some brains, think about the consequences of your actions and then act in a manner that decreases the odds of an unwanted outcome; really it's not that hard. If it means holding off sex for a day or so, I think you'll survive.


I think you shouldn't presume your moral dogma has any place in anybody else's decision to have sex or not.
2014-03-19 04:23:39 PM  
1 votes:
7deadlysinners.typepad.com

Reblogging because holy shiat I think I've gotten every single one of these questions.
1.bp.blogspot.com
2014-03-19 04:19:17 PM  
1 votes:

serpent_sky: MadMattressMack: What made up crap am I spouting? Do you honestly believe that if it were legal for any person anywhere to go get a late term abortion that it wouldn't happen? Diffuculty: you must include Florida and drug addicts.

I know it's not legal for that crap to happen and agree with the current laws that prohibit it. But without said laws, do you really think it would never happen?

And Dr. Tiller definitely wasn't murdered for the crap I'm spouting. He was murdered by an schizo who thought he was doing something that he wasn't - namely providing illegal late term abortions.

No, nobody thinks anyone would go through a pregnancy just to have a late term abortion. The notion is simply absurd. And the fact that people think people would, or that doctors would provide them "just because" is precisely why Dr. Tiller was murdered. Because people think that there is a demand for, and people are obtaining, late term abortions when that could not be further from the truth.  The fact that it was someone with schizophrenia (not sure if that is even true) would make it worse because they'd be more likely to believe the lies.


It is infuriating to me that people have such a disconnect when it comes to this issue. Violence against reproductive healthcare providers is always fueled by lies and it is very serious. People are literally risking their lives to make sure women have access to basic healthcare which would take place in a hospital for free in most other developed nations. Clinics are bombed, workers are shot, one guy tried to drive a car into a clinic but got stopped by the concrete barriers they had.

It's insane and disgusting.
2014-03-19 04:14:18 PM  
1 votes:

elgrancerdo: I hate to do this to you all, but unfortunately someone has to tell you:

Self awareness that you are self absorbed, and be able to communicate it to breeders asking "how come?", proves the point of the breeders that there is something wrong with you.  Because, no matter how much you state it as a fact, I mean, listen to yourself: "I can't have children because I hate children", "I would not make a good dad/mom", "I am too self absorbed to give time to children", "I have too many activities helping other children for me to have my own", "I love children, but I also love that they leave eventually", "parenting is a 24/7 job and it is not for me", and my favorite "why should I be required by law to change someone else's dirty diaper".

It has been said that nobody has more love than the person who is willing to die for friends.  The root of this comment goes down to the issue of how much are you willing to give of yourself for somebody else without expecting anything in return.  If you love a woman/man, you must likely get a sexual orgasm, but with children you may not only not receive anything, but the added heartache and disappointment may come as well, even if you did everything "right" in your opinion.  What gets me is that there are so many people lately that find it OK not to give of themselves to someone else for the sake of just doing it.  Their definition of love is obviously different.  And that is what is wrong with them.

I find it interesting to ask why you don't have children not because I want to pressure you into having them.  I want to know if I need to avoid you (worst case) or how to deal with you appropriately.  Not all people who don't want to have children are assholes, some are truly beautiful that want to be accepted into any group and don't mind listening to your tantrum stories and looking at your facebook pictures.  But don't get all offended if you are being asked this questions.  First of all, you don't have to answer them if you don't fee ...


2/10, I think you'll get some bites on the insinuating people that don't want to have kids have something wrong with them.
2014-03-19 04:12:58 PM  
1 votes:

CanisNoir: Well I always assumed that changing the laws was the whole point behind the "Pro-Life" movement. I mean, sure, a pro-lifer can (and does) run around shouting nonsense at people going into abortion clinics, that's their right, everyone is allowed to act like an inconsiderate arsehole, but the whole point of debating, protesting and lobbying representatives is to get the law changed.

/For the record, more pro-choice than pro-life myself
//would not mind Roe v. Wade being over turned and letting the states decide


A lot of women in red states would die from back alley abortions/taking crazy pills/whatever to attempt to terminate pregnancy, though. That's the concern, for me, and why I think we need a federal law ensuring the right to abortion.

I'm not for *big* government, but if I had my way, some things would just be federally mandated because we'll literally end up with two countries otherwise - a true divide of red and blue. I think gay marriage should be federally approved across the board, as should protections for GLBT people, and abortion as well. Marijuana (all drugs, really) should be legalized, as should prostitution.

It will very unlikely happen, but given the lay of the land, it's not like we can cut the country in half and make two. And you could have a liberal utopia next to a conservative hellhole (depending on your views, though I think mine are pretty clear) and it would just be a huge mess. Worse than it is now. That's why I think Roe V. Wade is so important.
Ant
2014-03-19 04:12:00 PM  
1 votes:

Philibuster: My wife and I get constantly asked when we are going to have kids. She's 28 I'm 29, and we have absolutely no interest in having them. She works with kids daily, and I work with sick kids daily, that is more than enough for us.

I have heard everything on the bingo board at least twice...I don't understand what is so damn interesting about my reproductive status for uninvolved parties.


Even if you do have a kid someday, they'll still bug you about having more.

Us: "One is enough for us"
Them: "But he needs a little brother or sister!"
Us: "Nope"
Them: "That's a shame"
2014-03-19 03:50:00 PM  
1 votes:

TheExcalibur: Can't we just all agree anything with a heart beat has rights and go from there?

This pro-choice pro-life rhetoric/garbage just hides the fact that no one wants to sit down and define what constitutes "life"


No it doesn't.   What does the definition of life have to do with whether or not a woman is allowed to choose to abort?
A fetus (dead, alive or in between) has no inherent right to use a person's body against his or her will.
2014-03-19 03:38:27 PM  
1 votes:

CanisNoir: Because we have long established that the government *can* control what we do with our bodies, (see drug and suicide laws) and when it comes to decided laws, people having a "say" is how our Representative Republic works.


And currently, abortion is legal, so you really have no argument.
2014-03-19 03:32:46 PM  
1 votes:
MadMattressMack:

I'd agree with you to a point. You can't have an abortion at 8 months and 29 days because you decided you don't want it. I'm against abortion of viable fetuses outside of health concerns for the mother and / or fetus.

Abortions are not performed past the second trimester except in extreme medical cases.  So stop making up weird scenarios.

What? Did I not express this correctly? I said I agree with the established procedures that directly contradict the above text. Did I miss something in this thread where there was an establishment on what "fetus" meant other than "fetus"?


see bolded.
2014-03-19 03:29:08 PM  
1 votes:

elgrancerdo: But don't get all offended if you are being asked this questions


It's none of your farking business, Mr "I'll choose only good people"

Fark off.  And don't forget your kids.
2014-03-19 03:25:59 PM  
1 votes:

MadMattressMack: udhq: CanisNoir: Umm, not wanting someone to murder another human being as a form of "birth control" isn't exactly a moral hang up so much as just common decency.

That a fetus is a human being is your belief, and yours alone, and it is not supported by ANY science on the matter.  It is merely a point of dogma, and shouldn't be used as a pretext to strip the basic human rights from someone who does not accept it as such.

To believe so, you also must believe that a woman who chooses to have sex surrenders the very ownership of her body to the government for the gestational period.

I'd agree with you to a point. You can't have an abortion at 8 months and 29 days because you decided you don't want it. I'm against abortion of viable fetuses outside of health concerns for the mother and / or fetus.


Abortions are not performed past the second trimester except in extreme medical cases.  So stop making up weird scenarios.
2014-03-19 03:23:24 PM  
1 votes:

bunner: At the risk of peeing in the petunias of the diverse and oft highly gymnastic and overwrought opinions on this lofty matter, uh, isn't it pretty much piss easy NOT to get knocked up if you don't want to?  I mean, I think we're past the coca cola douche and rosary stage for contraception.  Shouldn't this be a go to BEFORE one trundles off to get their very own abortion story?  And skip "but z0mg teh rape victims" rant.  This isn't about.  Plainly.


Bun, you know this.  Even diligent use of birth control fails.  Condoms break.  Pills fail, conception occurs, IUDs shift, not everyone is good with Norplant (as in allergic, and some insurances don't cover it anyway). Some women don't want to use the pill due to cancer risks.

So if birth control fails, which IS what the article referenced...that if her birth control failed and she got pregnant, she would have no issue with an abortion, a woman should have a child she took active steps to prevent?  And don't walk down that tubal ligation road, because no 20 something that's sexually active is going to have a tubal so she doesn't conceive. Or should women be coerced into using a drug they don't want to to satisfy some pearl clutching anti abortionist?

So what should they do?
2014-03-19 03:21:05 PM  
1 votes:

MadMattressMack: udhq: CanisNoir: Umm, not wanting someone to murder another human being as a form of "birth control" isn't exactly a moral hang up so much as just common decency.

That a fetus is a human being is your belief, and yours alone, and it is not supported by ANY science on the matter.  It is merely a point of dogma, and shouldn't be used as a pretext to strip the basic human rights from someone who does not accept it as such.

To believe so, you also must believe that a woman who chooses to have sex surrenders the very ownership of her body to the government for the gestational period.

I'd agree with you to a point. You can't have an abortion at 8 months and 29 days because you decided you don't want it. I'm against abortion of viable fetuses outside of health concerns for the mother and / or fetus.


Give me examples of women doing this.
2014-03-19 03:10:18 PM  
1 votes:

CanisNoir: Umm, not wanting someone to murder another human being as a form of "birth control" isn't exactly a moral hang up so much as just common decency.


That a fetus is a human being is your belief, and yours alone, and it is not supported by ANY science on the matter.  It is merely a point of dogma, and shouldn't be used as a pretext to strip the basic human rights from someone who does not accept it as such.

To believe so, you also must believe that a woman who chooses to have sex surrenders the very ownership of her body to the government for the gestational period.
2014-03-19 03:07:33 PM  
1 votes:

Pincy: Satan's Bunny Slippers: Quite honestly, your statement makes me a little angry. Like you're implying that all women must have children for the good of the country or something.

I think you are spot on here.  I've gotten this line before too, "But what if the baby you never plan on having was going to be the next Einstein?"  They pretend like it's a compliment ("You are good enough to create the next Einstein") but really the implication is that you should be having kids for the good of the country/world/universe and if you don't then you are selfish.


OH yes.....I'm thankfully past the age that I get comments anymore, but I spent 25+ years getting the whole gamut of the cranks.

But you'd be a GREAT MOM! (yeah, sure.....I like to get drunk on friday nights too)

How do you know you don't want kids if you never had one?  (I've NEVER understood this one)

Aw...they're different when their your own!  (sure they are...I can't send them back home with their parents when I get tired of them)

I just don't understand WHY you don't want kids!  (no, no you don't and I'm not going to tell you)

But if you had kids, yours and ours could play together!  (like I want my brats hanging out with your brats?)

etc ad nauseum.....

I don't have kids.  I don't regret this.  Others have lovely families, great kids.  I have nothing against that.  but don't you DARE try to tell me I have to have kids "for the good of ANYTHING" because I will tell you to get farked.
2014-03-19 03:05:23 PM  
1 votes:

People_are_Idiots: Uhm, might point this out. Without children, we won't have a healthy society of smart people. Idiocracy in action.


As someone who *really* doesn't want children, this old chestnut is tiresome and ineffective. I have, what, 30 years left at most... after that, I couldn't care less what happens to society.

I do suspect, though, that "smart people" are going to be valued less and less over time anyway. That's one of many reasons why I don't want children -- I would feel guilty about leaving them with a future that I don't have faith in.
2014-03-19 03:03:31 PM  
1 votes:

verbaltoxin: Argumentum ad populum. Really? Because some people are squicked out by it and their church says no, then it's not birth control?


No, it's not birth control because even the pro-choice side realizes that trying to claim abortion as birth control is stupid and would quickly lose them any moral high ground they had.
2014-03-19 03:01:28 PM  
1 votes:

Ned Stark: I don't believe in property but if I started carrying an e z boy out of the furniture store I bet you wouldn't have a problem with it when a bunch of cops beat my ass to stop me.


Actually, I would have a problem with cops beating your ass for stealing something. I don't much like cops overreacting to a situation.

Further, we KNOW property exists. It's a fact. It's coded into the law that you cannot go into the furniture store and walk out with a chair.

We do not KNOW when life starts - it varies by theory. However, it is coded into the law that abortion is a legal medical procedure a woman can obtain if she so wishes - even validated by the Supreme Court.

As such, your analogy fails on multiple levels.
2014-03-19 02:59:36 PM  
1 votes:
I only skimmed the first few comments that she is whining about.  But I saw mostly comments criticizing her choice of words describing children as "time sucking monsters", not her personal life choices.  In other words people would like this author to stop attacking everyone else's choices.   This author seems to have a very bad case of "stop liking what I don't like."
2014-03-19 02:50:16 PM  
1 votes:

People_are_Idiots: ginandbacon: This conversation isn't about children. It's about women and how free or not they are. Having children is a leading cause of poverty in this country for women. We do not have free preschools run by the government. We do not offer paid maternity leave. Pregnancy is very hard on women physically and is actually more dangerous than abortions. And children are insanely expensive.

Uhm, might point this out. Without children, we won't have a healthy society of smart people. Idiocracy in action.

As far as "free" preschool, A kid taught right doesn't need preschool, plus it takes away from them BEING a kid (heard instances of preschool starting as soon as they're out of diapers). Paid/maternity leave? Depends on where you work (my place offers 6-12 months paid maternity leave, and some places even offer 6 months for the man if he chooses to go with his wife). There is also FMLA to back you up (a federal program).


Sp women should risk poverty, their health, and often their sanity to repopulate the US? Are you insane? We are not broodmares.

Preschools exists to give parents a way to juggle young children and other responsibilities. And kids do just fine in them. Or are American children more delicate than they are in basically every other developed nation?

Paid maternity leave is very rare in the US. Only 12% of workers get paid family leave.

"in the 1990s, the US had the sixth-highest female labor force participation rate among the 22 nations tracked by the OECD. By 2010, the US ranked 17th." (I think we're actually 18th now.) Link.

If you want women to have more babies, make it easier for them. It really is that simple.
2014-03-19 02:50:14 PM  
1 votes:

CanisNoir: Also, nobody is telling her what type of birth control she should use, just that Abortion is *not* and never has been a suitable form of Birth Control. (Because right around half the country feels it's killing another human being).


Why does that "right around half" get to say what the rest of us should do if we happen to get pregnant? Those of us who do not think a fetus is killing a human being?
2014-03-19 02:49:24 PM  
1 votes:
i.imgur.com

i.imgur.com
2014-03-19 02:46:10 PM  
1 votes:

CanisNoir: DROxINxTHExWIND: Who the fark are you or anyone to tell a woman what sort of birth control she HAS to use to be acceptable in your eyes? Again, who are the real self-absorbed people in this?

Well, considering I'm not one of the people who responded, this isn't about *me* but rather about what the responses were geared towards. Who are they to make that call? Members of society, and considering the question is, "are we killing someone with abortion or are we not" and that doesn't seem to be answered, then as members of society, they have a duty to weigh in on debates such as this.

Also, nobody is telling her what type of birth control she should use, just that Abortion is *not* and never has been a suitable form of Birth Control. (Because right around half the country feels it's killing another human being).


Argumentum ad populum. Really? Because some people are squicked out by it and their church says no, then it's not birth control?

BULL. SH*T.
2014-03-19 02:45:37 PM  
1 votes:

CanisNoir: (Because right around half the country feels it's killing another human being).


Until it's their unwanted pregnancy in question. Amazing how that works.
2014-03-19 02:32:16 PM  
1 votes:

CanisNoir: I think the major problem most had with this persons decisions was that despite saying she never wanted children, she would still rather kill an unborn child rather than get her tubes tied.


I don't see why she should be forced to undergo a risky and invasive operation to satisfy someone else's moral hangups.
2014-03-19 02:30:31 PM  
1 votes:

Prank Call of Cthulhu: Boo_Guy: would also park in expectant mothers spots if I didn't care about getting keyed.

I do this ALL the time. Seriously, they're just knocked up, not crippled; I don't think it'll kill them to walk a few extra feet.


Ohhhhh fark you.
2014-03-19 02:17:47 PM  
1 votes:

TheExcalibur: Can't we just all agree anything with a heart beat has rights and go from there?

This pro-choice pro-life rhetoric/garbage just hides the fact that no one wants to sit down and define what constitutes "life"


Not that it has anything to do with the thread, but how about: "once it can survive outside of the womb on its own"?  Until then, it's a parasite.
2014-03-19 02:17:43 PM  
1 votes:

Nabb1: She then took umbrage when some people took issue with her opinions (and some of those angry comments she highlighted were directed at her calling children "time-sucking monsters")


 No sane person with children would take umbrage at that description.
2014-03-19 02:17:18 PM  
1 votes:

Philibuster: My wife and I get constantly asked when we are going to have kids. She's 28 I'm 29, and we have absolutely no interest in having them. She works with kids daily, and I work with sick kids daily, that is more than enough for us.

I have heard everything on the bingo board at least twice...I don't understand what is so damn interesting about my reproductive status for uninvolved parties.


Man, I hear you. I'm twice your age and my wife and I decided not to have kids when we were about your age. We were ragged on by parents for years. A lot of people don'r give a flying damn, but others care a lot. Why do they care? I know why: they know they made the wrong choice and they cannot stand that you made the right one. Being a parent is definitely not all it is cracked up to be and is something that one should do only if one really, really wants it bad. Many people don't really want it at all but cave to family and friends who use the Breeder Bingo platitudes on them,

My elder sister (who never gave me any crap about not having kids) used to gush over how great her kids were, how much she loved them, how glad she had them in her life, etc. It was tiresome to her all the time. But then when her kids were out of the house and off to college, she was visiting and.after a few stiff ones, she admitted that though she loves her children, if she had it to do over, she would not have had them. She said that she had given up too much and that she had always understood why I chose a childless life.
2014-03-19 02:14:57 PM  
1 votes:
Simply this: because I don't believe in being forced by law to take care of things that smell bad and poop themselves.
2014-03-19 02:12:10 PM  
1 votes:
A lot of the pressure to have kids is also of the religious "Be fruitful and multiply" variety. Every sperm is sacred! Every egg even more so, so get crackin'. Even though most Christians have pulled back from being "Quiverfull" types, it's probably still a majority opinion that you owe it to God to have at least a few kids.

Scientifically, it's just a natural part of life. Organisms procreate. Among something like rabbits, the population would balloon until checked by the exhaustion of resources, and then those that aren't predated die of starvation (and in some organisms, fertility decreases in times of limited resources). But maybe having the intelligence to not procreate is also a natural population check. We're certainly not endangered. At the moment.
2014-03-19 02:04:45 PM  
1 votes:

Utter Genius: Except she didn't simply state she "doesn't want to have children". She wrote a deliberately-provocative article describing children as time-consuming monsters, then went into damsel-in-distress mode the moment the people she provoked fired invective back at her.

In other words she's a click-baiting troll.


I hate to piss from a great height upon the new  Library of Alexandria, but isn't "stir up sh*t, sell ads by the hit count, watch people furiously revile your 'position' from behind their ISP" pretty most of the internet that isn't naked people and spam?  I mean, if anybody with an IQ larger than their shoe size met any of the people cranking out this twaddle IRL, they'd lend then all of the credibility of a raccoon who found a typewriter.  And should.  It's not just the anonymity, it's the pissant authority poses that we eat with a fork and shovel.
2014-03-19 02:04:34 PM  
1 votes:
She seems like a pleasant person.

That being said, who gives a fark whether or not other people choose to have children? I don't give a crap if you don't want kids, and I don't need you sneering at me and calling me a "breeder" because I chose to have a family. Maybe we should all just concentrate a little more on our own lives and stop trying to tell everyone else how to live theirs.
2014-03-19 02:01:11 PM  
1 votes:

Cerebral Ballsy: "You would make a great mother" is the one I always get.

No, I don't think so. I would be frazzled. I seem to be great with kids because I get to go home and recharge in between visits.


That or the other variation. "But you're so good with kids!"

Yeah, I am good with kids.  I'm good with kids because I only have to spend a finite amount of time around them, and then they go away.
2014-03-19 01:58:59 PM  
1 votes:

vartian: Nabb1: After reading that article, I think she is making the right call because she comes off as way too self-absorbed to be a parent.

Which is exactly why I am never going to have kids. I wish more people would be honest with themselves about parenthood.


I'm over 50 and never had kids. I don't regret that decision, either. It just wasn't for me. I have 3 godchildren and 2 nephews who I love dearly. When the older ones were kids (they're in their 20s and 30s now), I loved babysitting them and taking them to the zoo, the circus, etc. Nowadays, I occasionally babysit my very active 2-year-old nephew, and I always feel exhausted afterwards.

Two of my closest friends are an over-50 married couple who also never had children. They have 2 cats and a dog, though.

GanjSmokr: "The official line of anti-choicers..."

I'm pro-choice, but saying "pro-lifers" are "anti-choicers" is about as stupid as saying "pro-choicers" are "anti-lifers".


Yes. The proper term should be, "pro-forced-childbirth," because that's their ultimate goal.

/no cats, but is considering getting one
2014-03-19 01:57:54 PM  
1 votes:

Nabb1: sigdiamond2000: reprobate1125: I think that recognizing that you're too self-absorbed to have children is a good thing.

I do too, but for some people, there is no good reason not to have children. A lot of people can't even process the concept of not wanting children, so they assume something is wrong with people who don't.

Those people are just as wrong as people who can't think of any justification for having kids. Parenting is hard work. You can't put yourself first again until they are able to take care of themselves. It's not for everyone. I know irresponsible people who shouldn't have kids and great people who would make great parents if they tried but choose not to.


and it's not any of your business either way.
2014-03-19 01:53:47 PM  
1 votes:

El Freak: It's my theory that the people that run down those who do not wish to have children are usually people who've had children, but cannot bring themselves to admit that they wish they hadn't.


I don't think it's so much that they wish they hadn't, it's that they've defined their life by it. It's the same reason some christians hate atheists. They don't regret their choice, they just hate being called silly for it.
2014-03-19 01:52:46 PM  
1 votes:
As a women, Pro choice and liberal, I usually want to punch most feminist in the mouth. They are like vegans, annoying and sanctimonious pricks.
2014-03-19 01:50:44 PM  
1 votes:
24.media.tumblr.com
2014-03-19 01:50:41 PM  
1 votes:

vartian: Nabb1: After reading that article, I think she is making the right call because she comes off as way too self-absorbed to be a parent.

Which is exactly why I am never going to have kids. I wish more people would be honest with themselves about parenthood.


You are correct - the problem though is in the fact that people that think like you are not having kids and people like the Duggers have 26 (or some odd number) kids. There are future generations where the rationality gene will disappear in a self-selected breeding

Then we should all be thankful we will be dead
2014-03-19 01:49:14 PM  
1 votes:
"I don't want to have babies!"

"That works for me."


"But I totally want a stiff one in my girl place, like, a LOT!"


"Good luck to you."


Next attention whore, please.


And some tea.
2014-03-19 01:48:26 PM  
1 votes:
Without bothering to RTFA, let me guess. Prolifers threatened her with death in the name of a dead-guy-on-a-stick?

Close?
2014-03-19 01:44:45 PM  
1 votes:
Bumper stickers seen in my neighborhood: "Cats, not kids." "If you can't feed'em, don't breed'em."

/agree
2014-03-19 01:40:11 PM  
1 votes:
"You would make a great mother" is the one I always get.

No, I don't think so. I would be frazzled. I seem to be great with kids because I get to go home and recharge in between visits.
2014-03-19 01:38:36 PM  
1 votes:

Pants full of macaroni!!: [img.fark.net image 400x462]

/oblig


Missing a couple squares: "Good; please don't have kids. They would probably be self absorbed assholes, too" and "Yay, more resources for my kids!"
2014-03-19 01:37:48 PM  
1 votes:
Sooooo.... anal then?
2014-03-19 01:35:40 PM  
1 votes:

lockers: Rapmaster2000: I keep hearing that Twitter is used for revolutions and empowerment all across the Middle East, but all I see it used for is public slapfights between loudmouths.

Maybe they get a different Twitter than we do.

It's almost like they built a platform specifically for narcissistic idiots.


I thought that was Facebook?
2014-03-19 01:34:10 PM  
1 votes:

vartian: Which is exactly why I am never going to have kids. I wish more people would be honest with themselves about parenthood.


I used to say this and mean it.  But after I became a parent I realized how wrong I was.  I can't imagine my life without my daughter, she's awesome.
2014-03-19 01:32:17 PM  
1 votes:

Rapmaster2000: I keep hearing that Twitter is used for revolutions and empowerment all across the Middle East, but all I see it used for is public slapfights between loudmouths.

Maybe they get a different Twitter than we do.


It's almost like they built a platform specifically for narcissistic idiots.
2014-03-19 01:09:55 PM  
1 votes:

BizarreMan: I may look at people and say they should NEVER have children because I don't believe they are cut out to be parents.

But I will never question a person/couple who have determined that they do not want to become parents.



Bingo.
 
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