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(The Raw Story)   Feminist woman says she doesn't want to have children. Twitter responds in expected fashion   (rawstory.com ) divider line
    More: Obvious, Twitter, feminists, photo archive, bad faith, abortion debate, fashions  
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10596 clicks; posted to Main » on 19 Mar 2014 at 1:24 PM (2 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-03-19 05:17:58 PM  

bunner: Osomatic: it was that the reactions showed that the pro-lifers' motivation isn't life, it's control of women's sexuality

It is my assertion that, by and large, the preponderance of the public or any given subset therefrom is ~astoundingly~ uninterested in what people do as long as it doesn't cost them money.  Let alone willing to put any time into controlling it.


How do you explain censorship laws, laws against pornography, regulations about profanity on television, laws regulating sexuality, etc etc etc?  If people didn't care enough to want these laws, they wouldn't exist.  This isn't the work of a few busybodies, it's the product of an entire society that historically has been very much interested in what you get up to behind closed doors.  Our laws may have changed over the years, but the fact that large percentages of the population want to control other people's behavior hasn't.
 
2014-03-19 05:20:20 PM  

bunner: someonelse: Duly noted. I'll bring it up at the next meeting. Feel free to add any further edicts about how you think females should behave.

Civilly.   :  )  Please feel free to continue to magically permutate observations into edicts.  It's edgy.


I don't know if it's quite as edgy as "older than Oprah's stretch marks."
 
2014-03-19 05:22:42 PM  

ginandbacon: Mitch Taylor's Bro: ginandbacon: serpent_sky: ginandbacon: To believe it would is frankly bizarre. There are only 3? (I think--it might be 2) doctors who have clinics for late term abortions and they are medical procedures that are emergencies and devastating for the parents who have to go through them.

Nobody goes through 8.5 months of pregnancy and all the associated horrors and woes and says "ya know what? I changed my mind." It just doesn't happen. It's a sick fantasy of the anti-choice movement that women everywhere are getting JUST to the point of going into labor, and running off to evil abortion clinics who can't wait to abort that about to be born baby. They even set a clock to see if they can beat it. And then they take the products of that last second abortion, roast it over a fire  (and that's the ONLY way it can be prepared, it's part of the ritual) and all partake in a joyous late-term abortion feast.

In reality, anyone having an abortion in the third trimester is going through some serious shiat and is likely to die without said abortion, assuming there is even anything close to alive inside them. And they're having a hard time because they almost carried their pregnancy to term and there were literally no other options at that point. Those people, everyone should feel bad for, not use them as examples of run of the mill abortions that are not even close to developed babies.

You said it perfectly.

Except I thought the fetuses were braised, not roasted? Have I been doing it wrong all these years? Dammit. I have to turn in my feminazi card, don't I?

No, but you do have to move into a Feminazi® re-education camp until such thinking can be corrected. Braised? What kind of savage are you? :-)

I didn't get the memo!!!!!! I hope they have nice sheets at this camp.


They're Feminazis, not Femisavages. They probably get them from Crate & Barrel.
 
2014-03-19 05:22:57 PM  
Ringshadow: Not so cool story, SIs.

*reads your story*
o_O
That, right there, is sexual harassment.
No, he didn't hit on you, but he made you feel uncomfortable at your job because of your sex.

What if you wanted to be a dude? (Not saying you do, just a "what if" that this guy clearly didn't think of) 

And marriage=/= kids. It's one of the reasons some people are motivated to do so, not all of them.

Also, he's cool with you having kids outside of marriage? (NTTAWWT; see bio) but WTF?!
 
2014-03-19 05:23:39 PM  

Osomatic: How do you explain censorship laws, laws against pornography, regulations about profanity on television, laws regulating sexuality, etc etc etc?


As neasr as I can tell, it has something to do with not wanting four year olds to sit around watching guys suck off goats in a tub full of pudding while sh*ttin themselves between My Little Pony and Maury.  I could be wrong.
 
2014-03-19 05:24:29 PM  

someonelse: bunner: someonelse: Duly noted. I'll bring it up at the next meeting. Feel free to add any further edicts about how you think females should behave.

Civilly.   :  )  Please feel free to continue to magically permutate observations into edicts.  It's edgy.

I don't know if it's quite as edgy as "older than Oprah's stretch marks."


Sure it is.  You have to learn to hold your input in higher seteem.
 
2014-03-19 05:27:44 PM  

bunner: Osomatic: How do you explain censorship laws, laws against pornography, regulations about profanity on television, laws regulating sexuality, etc etc etc?

As neasr as I can tell, it has something to do with not wanting four year olds to sit around watching guys suck off goats in a tub full of pudding while sh*ttin themselves between My Little Pony and Maury.  I could be wrong.


Or not wanting old guys watching 4 year olds suck off goats in a tub full of pudding while pooing, so that old guys feel motivated to make their own movies with children they know.
And no, I don't think you're wrong at all.
 
2014-03-19 05:29:25 PM  

ginandbacon: Sp women should risk poverty, their health, and often their sanity to repopulate the US? Are you insane? We are not broodmares.

Preschools exists to give parents a way to juggle young children and other responsibilities. And kids do just fine in them. Or are American children more delicate than they are in basically every other developed nation?

Paid maternity leave is very rare in the US. Only 12% of workers get paid family leave.

"in the 1990s, the US had the sixth-highest female labor force participation rate among the 22 nations tracked by the OECD. By 2010, the US ranked 17th." (I think we're actually 18th now.) Link.

If you want women to have more babies, make it easier for them. It really is that simple.


I don't have a problem making it easier, really. If I owned a business, I would make sure that women have the time off. As far as FMLA, it's a federal law, and if a business doesn't allow for it, there is a nice place for them to complain that can hurt them financially if they don't.

Satan's Bunny Slippers: Please explain to me why this factors into a woman's choice to have or not have kids? Not one person in here has said "no women should have children".


No, but IMO, the WRONG people are having kids. I'm not saying be a "broodmare" (as someone tried to say I was implying), but getting someone who will actually help and having a couple of kids is tons better than the local dumb jerk having 20 kids with five women, none of them knowing how to take precautions.

Satan's Bunny Slippers: Quite honestly, your statement makes me a little angry. Like you're implying that all women must have children for the good of the country or something.

Now, I'll hold off on my opinion of your statement until I get clarification. But it still raises the hackles.


It shouldn't. Don't read too much into it, but we need more of the RIGHT women to have kids. Last thing I want to see is another Honey Boo Boo.

TheKingOfMexico: As someone who *really* doesn't want children, this old chestnut is tiresome and ineffective. I have, what, 30 years left at most... after that, I couldn't care less what happens to society.

I do suspect, though, that "smart people" are going to be valued less and less over time anyway. That's one of many reasons why I don't want children -- I would feel guilty about leaving them with a future that I don't have faith in.


You never know how long you're going to live (you can at best guesstimate using your lineage, but even that can be way off). I can agree with your sentiment on the future looking bleak for smart people... but like the lottery, you can't win or lose if you don't play.
 
2014-03-19 05:30:45 PM  
The envelope is a funny thing.  When you push it too far, it's no longer an envelope.  Just a piece of shredded paper.  One can only deconstruct things until we're all sh*tting ourselves in a bathtub full of pudding.  Then you just sort sort of run out of things to say "nyah nyah" about and you start to feel silly.
 
2014-03-19 05:31:25 PM  

Unoriginal_Username: People shouldn't care who has kids or who doesn't. My only question for her is this. If you don't want kids why not get your tubes tied? And doctors shouldn't be able to ask why, just do it. Same for guys getting a vasectomy. The reasons don't matter. It's what they want.


I couldn't $ay. $eem$ $o $trange, in a free country like our$, that $omeone'$ going to avoid a medical procedure...
 
2014-03-19 05:37:12 PM  

CanisNoir: Nobody is talking about whether or not you or anyone else has sex, they're talking about taking responsability for your actions. It's not like the fact that sex can cause pregnancy is some huge big secret that you're surprised with when it happens. So, take care to wrap it up, or what ever other contraception methods you want, and odds are very good you won't have a problem. Sure, contraception doesn't work 100% of the time, guess what, life's not fair, it works enough that risking killing another human being because you're afraid you might be the .01% outlier is ludicrous.


Sure, I'm just saying that one of the ways that a woman can choose to take responsibility for the choice to have sex is to terminate an unwanted pregnancy as soon as possible when birth control fails, that's all.

That's acceptable to me and to most women.  Whether or not it is to you should only matter to you and your partner, or those who chose to accept that particular point of dogma.
 
2014-03-19 05:37:23 PM  
Good.  At least it'll spare us all her little twatwaffle offspring puking their self-absorbed narcissism all over my internet in a decade or two.
 
Ant
2014-03-19 05:38:58 PM  

JackieRabbit: Why do they care? I know why: they know they made the wrong choice and they cannot stand that you made the right one.


There is no absolute right or wrong choice. Maybe you meant that they made the wrong choice for themselves.
 
2014-03-19 05:39:55 PM  

People_are_Idiots: I don't have a problem making it easier, really. If I owned a business, I would make sure that women have the time off. As far as FMLA, it's a federal law, and if a business doesn't allow for it, there is a nice place for them to complain that can hurt them financially if they don't.


Neither (unless I am misunderstanding what you would do) is PAID leave. I know, I had to explain to my employers that they had to let me take time of when my father was dying and the assholes called me every day to ask when I would be back. I finally told them "Sometime after he's dead."

PAID time off is entirely different and would be a huge factor for women thinking about starting a family.
 
2014-03-19 05:41:31 PM  
*time off
 
2014-03-19 05:49:35 PM  

blatz514: groppet: Raising my roomate is enough. Why she pissed on the kitchen floor when the bathroom was 10 feet away ill never know

Damn groppet, I can never get enough of your roommate stories.  You sure she isn't, like, 2 or 3 years old?


Sometimes I wonder myself. Still trying to figure out the reason why she stuffed four bagels in th couch. I'm sure alcohol was involved.
 
2014-03-19 05:57:51 PM  

groppet: blatz514: groppet: Raising my roomate is enough. Why she pissed on the kitchen floor when the bathroom was 10 feet away ill never know

Damn groppet, I can never get enough of your roommate stories.  You sure she isn't, like, 2 or 3 years old?

Sometimes I wonder myself. Still trying to figure out the reason why she stuffed four bagels in th couch. I'm sure alcohol was involved.


Couldn't let the cream cheese in the couch go to waste?
 
2014-03-19 06:23:31 PM  
I really don't have a problem with a gf or wife not wanting / or not ready to have a baby. I do have issue with them killing my child without asking if i might like to raise it. yes yes, i know...my body..blah blah blah...but ....1/2 of that babies genetic material comes from the father, who has been reduced to a monthly check at best, and a non person with no say at worst. I wonder how a woman would feel if she had to ask the man if he agreed to an abortion first? Oh yes, they would just do it anyway behind his back. I forgot. Interesting, isn't it, if i falcon punch a pregnant woman, and cause her to lose her baby, thats murder. If she does an abortion, (the same result) its ok? Hmmm. Odd society we live in.
 
2014-03-19 06:23:47 PM  

reprobate1125: I think that recognizing that you're too self-absorbed to have children is a good thing.

I'm there.


That's what I say. It's best to recognize this in yourself *BEFORE* you have children. Some people are simply not cut out to be parents, and a lot of misery in this world would be avoided it they didn't have any -- and incidentally didn't face pubic shiat over their decision. Of course, in this case, she announced it to the world and kind of invited the shiat, so...
 
2014-03-19 06:41:45 PM  

bunner: Osomatic: How do you explain censorship laws, laws against pornography, regulations about profanity on television, laws regulating sexuality, etc etc etc?

As neasr as I can tell, it has something to do with not wanting four year olds to sit around watching guys suck off goats in a tub full of pudding while sh*ttin themselves between My Little Pony and Maury.  I could be wrong.


And thank goodness we've had laws against sodomy to protect our four-year-olds from seeing that.  And just think of the dangers of letting adults buy magazines with pictures of naked people in them!  Good thing that was thoroughly outlawed for many years.
 
2014-03-19 07:03:39 PM  

Osomatic: And thank goodness we've had laws against sodomy to protect our four-year-olds from seeing that.  And just think of the dangers of letting adults buy magazines with pictures of naked people in them!  Good thing that was thoroughly outlawed for many years.


Inasmuch as I can see that the concept of slippery slopes somewhat eludes you, how about this?  How about we stop being hypocites about what we show and tell our childen about what constitutes ethics and dignity  and not tell them when they hit ~n years old that it's all malarkey and the only path to what we define as free adulthood is doing as you please when you please?
 
2014-03-19 07:04:24 PM  

udhq: CanisNoir: Nobody is talking about whether or not you or anyone else has sex, they're talking about taking responsability for your actions. It's not like the fact that sex can cause pregnancy is some huge big secret that you're surprised with when it happens. So, take care to wrap it up, or what ever other contraception methods you want, and odds are very good you won't have a problem. Sure, contraception doesn't work 100% of the time, guess what, life's not fair, it works enough that risking killing another human being because you're afraid you might be the .01% outlier is ludicrous.

Sure, I'm just saying that one of the ways that a woman can choose to take responsibility for the choice to have sex is to terminate an unwanted pregnancy as soon as possible when birth control fails, that's all.

That's acceptable to me and to most women.  Whether or not it is to you should only matter to you and your partner, or those who chose to accept that particular point of dogma.


Except the other side sees it as killing an innocent human being on purpose simply because a couple doesn't want to face the consequences of their actions. It's not just a pro-lifers right to get involved politically to stop it, it's their duty as moral human being.
 
2014-03-19 07:06:55 PM  
And as far as "nudes", I hate to break it to you , but wide open beavers have been going begging in the marketplace since before Kurt Vonnegut hit the exit ramp.  It's mostly mules, and baseball bats and four ways with farm animals.  And, you know?  Yeah, that should probably have some sort of widespead disemenation prevention.
 
2014-03-19 07:13:58 PM  

CanisNoir: udhq: I think you shouldn't presume your moral dogma has any place in anybody else's decision to have sex or not.

Nobody is talking about whether or not you or anyone else has sex, they're talking about taking responsability for your actions. It's not like the fact that sex can cause pregnancy is some huge big secret that you're surprised with when it happens. So, take care to wrap it up, or what ever other contraception methods you want, and odds are very good you won't have a problem. Sure, contraception doesn't work 100% of the time, guess what, life's not fair, it works enough that risking killing another human being because you're afraid you might be the .01% outlier is ludicrous.


WTF? So do you think birth control is or isn't risking human life? Or was this post supposed to be a thinly veiled promotion of abstinence till menopause?
 
2014-03-19 07:27:10 PM  

tlars699: Ringshadow: Not so cool story, SIs.

*reads your story*
o_O
That, right there, is sexual harassment.
No, he didn't hit on you, but he made you feel uncomfortable at your job because of your sex.

What if you wanted to be a dude? (Not saying you do, just a "what if" that this guy clearly didn't think of)

And marriage=/= kids. It's one of the reasons some people are motivated to do so, not all of them.

Also, he's cool with you having kids outside of marriage? (NTTAWWT; see bio) but WTF?!


I have no idea. The whole situation was just farking strange, which is pretty much how I feel every time someone has a meltdown about me being childfree. I did kinda wanna ask how many baby mammas he had.

/should have.
 
2014-03-19 07:28:42 PM  
Oh no, someone I don't want to breed as said she doesn't want to breed! This infuriates me!
 
2014-03-19 07:47:13 PM  
I`m not going to bother reading the thread.

You all have it wrong. You should have to have a good reason TO have a child, not the other way around. I see this cognitive dissonance as the cause of a lot of the issues people have with this topic.

Anyone who has already said this, high five.
 
2014-03-19 07:51:51 PM  
Never wanted kids and knew that from a very young age, about age 9, I'd guess.  Didn't play with baby dolls, couldn't see myself with a baby, etc.  Now, almost 30 years later, I do not regret my decision, I'm on my 2nd IUD (ouchie, painful at times) and am thankful to have a stepson-14 y/o as well as my friends' kids around.  I would have been a so so Mom and as it is, I as a mediocre stepmom at best, but at least I knew my limits from a young age and chose not to bring children into this world as I am not really interested in caring for them.  I can appreciate their value, but never wanted any of my own.  I do ok as a stepmom, though, the kid and I have a good relationship, even though I lack maternal instincts.  He'll continue to grow up right and go to college, he's a good kid and I love him :)
 
2014-03-19 07:52:33 PM  

ginandbacon: Neither (unless I am misunderstanding what you would do) is PAID leave. I know, I had to explain to my employers that they had to let me take time of when my father was dying and the assholes called me every day to ask when I would be back. I finally told them "Sometime after he's dead."

PAID time off is entirely different and would be a huge factor for women thinking about starting a family.


FMLA is sort of paid, again depending on the business. Even my mother's workplace (a miniscule second-hand store) used FMLA is the form of PTO (Paid-Time-Off), and she used all of it before she retired (injured off the job too). Any business that has PTO usually default to that when you take FMLA (My place of employment uses Sick Leave, then Annual). Now if you have more FMLA than your PTO... yes it is unpaid. But at the least you won't lose your job when you come back.

Of course, I'd prefer a nice package to include a nice maternity leave sum for those wishing kids. If I owned a business though...

profplump: People_are_Idiots: As far as "free" preschool, A kid taught right doesn't need preschool

Tell that to all the children killed by their caregivers before being old enough for school. Getting children into regular social contact with people outside their families is one of the best and cheapest ways to protect them from abuses of all sorts and should be done as early as possible. It doesn't have to be anything like "school" but we should not force children to live in isolation for the 6 most vulnerable years of their lives.


 Hmm, guess you didn't go outside and make friends on your street once in your life... And pre-school to me is unnecessary since I grew up on a street with kids. I started going into isolation more as a late-teener than when I was a kid, plus had a whole neighborhood of people with kids (it was a frickin' rainbow of fruity flavors). With supervision, a kid can grow up and be ready for kindergarten without the need of pre-school.

It's also worth noting that not every kid has the opportunity to be "taught right" by whoever happened to spawn them. We shouldn't punish children for having bad parents; we should ensure that all children are "taught right" even if their parents are unable or unwilling.

So you'd rather parents be forced to give up their kid to go to a place that is nothing more than daycare? Heck, DAYCARE would be cheaper than some of the preschool places we have here. And "free" in this country means another new subsidy that is practically useless to child-rearing.
 
2014-03-19 08:18:33 PM  

Bit'O'Gristle: Interesting, isn't it, if i falcon punch a pregnant woman, and cause her to lose her baby, thats murder. If she does an abortion, (the same result) its ok? Hmmm. Odd society we live in.


If I burn down your shed, it's called arson.

If you burn down your shed (the same result), it's called removing a dangerous eyesore.

Hmmm. Odd society we live in.
 
2014-03-19 08:32:19 PM  
Anyone understand that? All I got was "bla bla bla me me me bla bla bla me me me bla:.
 
2014-03-19 08:33:36 PM  

People_are_Idiots: FMLA is sort of paid, again depending on the business. Even my mother's workplace (a miniscule second-hand store) used FMLA is the form of PTO


38% of workers in this country have no PTO. None. And women are more likely than men to not have it. The average wage (in 2012) for workers with no paid time off was $10. Women are more likely to work in lower paying jobs and have less disposable income and less personal wealth. About 40% of births in this country are to unwed mothers.and about half of all mothers will be single parents at some point while they are raising children. Something like 80% work more than 30 hours a week. Roughly a quarter of the children in this country live below the poverty threshold. More than 41% of the homeless in the US are families with children.

Free preschool is free childcare. We don't have that. We're pretty much the only developed nation that doesn't. And we don't have paid maternity leave. Same thing.

Again. If you want more babies, make it easier to have them.
 
2014-03-19 08:44:52 PM  
Anti-abortion.
Anti-gay.
Anti-contraception.

There seems to be a theme there for those of a particular fundamental political persuasion. And that theme is, get popping those kids out.
 
2014-03-19 09:12:34 PM  
Wow.  Seems like with the big Pro-Life cheering section, Octomom would have much more public support.  Hell, people should send her money for being such a fine example of reproductivity.
 
2014-03-19 09:17:47 PM  

Osomatic: You - and a hell of a lot of other people on this thread - are missing the point of the article.  It wasn't that she was mad that people had reacted, it was that the reactions showed that the pro-lifers' motivation isn't life, it's control of women's sexuality.  Now, there's probably a counter-argument to be made there, but that's what she was getting at, not "boo hoo, they were mean to me."


She is whining. That entire last paragraph is nothing but "look at these horrible people and the horrible mean things they say."

This is despite the fact that all of the tweets less one (the one about the armpits) don't even remotely address her central thesis that these people want to enforce traditional gender roles on her with their stance on abortion. Most of them, as a matter of fact, take issue with the fact that she doesn't like kids, and don't even remotely touch on gender roles.

Censuring people because they don't like kids isn't specific to women - as this thread has made clear - and it isn't about gender. Men who don't like kids get the same sort of hate all the farking time. She isn't special in this.

All of this is aside from the fact that she spends the entirety of the rest of the article strawmanning up pro-life side.

Are there crazy pro-lifers out there? You bet your ass. But I know many people pro-life people that start from the fundamental principle that the highest duty of society is to protect those that cannot protect themselves. It isn't about enforcing gender roles and making women get in the kitchen and know there place - it is an explicit argument that as an adult, someone made the choice to have sex (leaving out rape, of course). The adult has made thus made their choice, and as an adult needs to act like an adult and do the responsible thing and provide for their offspring.

I don't feel that way - I am entirely agnostic on the abortion issue and frankly couldn't care one way or another. But I know principled pro-lifers and I know scumbag pro-lifers, just like I know good and bad pro-choice people.

But the twitter responses she posted had about fark all to do with enforcing gender roles. She obviously hates kids and - NEWS FLASH - as people's stories (and yes, whining and biatching) in this thread have revealed, men get it just as much as women do. Not liking kids is NOT considered a positive social value because society - particularly the American snowflake society - consider children to be THE most important part of life. Children are our future and our legacy, after all, young innocents who should be protected and encouraged by the community at all times (or so they say)

So yeah, she's whining. And she's projecting so hard she's entirely missed the point: people aren't jumping on her because they are tools of the patriarchy and want to force her to live barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen.

People are jumping on her because she is obviously a miserable farking person that whines about tangential feminist bullshiat like gender roles and oppression when she goes against the grain and tells the world that she really, really farking hates kids, and that rather than undergoing medical sterilization she's just going to terminate any child she does conceive because they are little monsters that won't leave her any time for her own life.

What did she think would happen when she called kids "monsters"? I'm betting exactly what she thought was going to happen is exactly what happened. Which gives her license to write a follow up clickbait article to the first clickbait article.

So yes: whiny attention whore trolling with clickbait. The only other thing I've gotten out of this is that I need to add her to my troll twitter account because she sure as hell can't take criticism worth a damn - anybody that criticizes her is obviously a tool of the patriarchy trying to send her back to 1850.
 
2014-03-19 09:54:32 PM  

nytmare: Anti-abortion.
Anti-gay.
Anti-contraception.

There seems to be a theme there for those of a particular fundamental political persuasion. And that theme is, get popping those kids out.


Right?  That urban democrat voter base isn't going to grow itself.
 
2014-03-19 10:12:29 PM  

ginandbacon: People_are_Idiots: FMLA is sort of paid, again depending on the business. Even my mother's workplace (a miniscule second-hand store) used FMLA is the form of PTO

38% of PART-TIME workers in this country have no PTO. None.


FTFY. Also note that 90% of full-time workers currently get some form of PTO (my mother's workplace offered PTO for vacation or sick usage (including FMLA), whereas my time off is seperated between sick and vacation). http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/paid-vacation-what-are-rights- 3 3485.html

And women are more likely than men to not have it.

[citation needed]. This one disagrees. http://money.cnn.com/2012/08/16/news/economy/paid-time-off/

"The breakdown by race and gender showed barely any gap between men and women, or whites and blacks -- an encouraging sign, said Heather Boushey, senior economist with the Center for American Progress."

Typically, those working with less income usually means less of an education.

Free preschool is free childcare. We don't have that. We're pretty much the only developed nation that doesn't. And we don't have paid maternity leave. Same thing.

Again, even my father agrees, why do you -need- pre-school? If you want daycare, there are many available and more affordable. You can even hire a babysitter (my mother had a babysitter for us, when my father and her were UNEMPLOYED), or use a relative for free (preferably one you trust). Let kids be kids, instill some respect and discipline, and send them to school.
 
2014-03-19 11:26:42 PM  

People_are_Idiots: ginandbacon: People_are_Idiots: FMLA is sort of paid, again depending on the business. Even my mother's workplace (a miniscule second-hand store) used FMLA is the form of PTO

38% of PART-TIME workers in this country have no PTO. None.

FTFY. Also note that 90% of full-time workers currently get some form of PTO (my mother's workplace offered PTO for vacation or sick usage (including FMLA), whereas my time off is seperated between sick and vacation). http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/paid-vacation-what-are-rights- 3 3485.html

And women are more likely than men to not have it.

[citation needed]. This one disagrees. http://money.cnn.com/2012/08/16/news/economy/paid-time-off/

"The breakdown by race and gender showed barely any gap between men and women, or whites and blacks -- an encouraging sign, said Heather Boushey, senior economist with the Center for American Progress."

Typically, those working with less income usually means less of an education.

Free preschool is free childcare. We don't have that. We're pretty much the only developed nation that doesn't. And we don't have paid maternity leave. Same thing.

Again, even my father agrees, why do you -need- pre-school? If you want daycare, there are many available and more affordable. You can even hire a babysitter (my mother had a babysitter for us, when my father and her were UNEMPLOYED), or use a relative for free (preferably one you trust). Let kids be kids, instill some respect and discipline, and send them to school.


The US ranks:
26th in preschool participation for 4-year-olds
24th in preschool participation for 3-year-olds
22nd in the typical age that children begin early childhood-education programs
15th in teacher-to-child ratio in early childhood-education programs
21st in total investment in early childhood education relative to country wealth
Among OECD countries.

"center-based day care programs modestly benefited middle-class children in early language and mathematics learning, youngsters from poor families experienced double those gains...the rate of death among children receiving care in private homes was 16 times that of children in child care centers."

68% of women in the labor force have some college or a college degree compared to 61% of men.

"...half of all first-time moms in the United States are able to take any paid leave after childbirth; and just a fifth of working women with young children receive leave with full pay..."

"Employer-provided medical care was available to 85 percent of full-time private industry workers in the United States in March 2013, the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics reported today. By contrast, only 24 percent of part-time workers had medical care benefits available. Access, or availability, also varied by employment size: 57 percent for all workers in small establishments (those with fewer than 100 employees), compared with 85 percent in medium and large establishments (those with 100 employees or more)...Paid sick leave benefits were also more commonly offered to full-time workers and those in medium and large establishments in private industry. Plans were offered to 74 percent of full-time workers and 24 percent of part-time workers. Similarly, 51 percent of workers in small establishments and 72 percent in medium and large establishments had access to a paid sick leave benefit."

Link, Link, Link, Link, Link.

With all due respect to you and your father, I am not particularly interested in policy based on anecdotes.
 
2014-03-19 11:36:09 PM  

Bit'O'Gristle: I really don't have a problem with a gf or wife not wanting / or not ready to have a baby. I do have issue with them killing my child without asking if i might like to raise it. yes yes, i know...my body..blah blah blah...but ....1/2 of that babies genetic material comes from the father, who has been reduced to a monthly check at best, and a non person with no say at worst. I wonder how a woman would feel if she had to ask the man if he agreed to an abortion first? Oh yes, they would just do it anyway behind his back. I forgot. Interesting, isn't it, if i falcon punch a pregnant woman, and cause her to lose her baby, thats murder. If she does an abortion, (the same result) its ok? Hmmm. Odd society we live in.


Sucks to be a man, doesn't it.  If only we could have the babies.  Maybe some day science will make that possible.  For the meantime we'll just have to try and and live with the burden that nature didn't give us a uterus.
 
2014-03-19 11:52:21 PM  
And we're starting to rank 1st in overall "hooray for me, f*ck you* socioeconomic policies.  Thank goodness Putin is  showing his ass to the world.  Maybe that will shift the world's attentive gaze from this plain as the balls on a tall dog fact that we are turning into a third world sh*thole with the few wiping their asses with the many while we fight over sh*t like this.


Affordable health care?  We h turning turning out 9th graders who can't even spell on their f*cking 700.00 phone keypad. Women's issues?  To be fair, there's not as many actual factual women's "issues" that need public attention, but the ones that do?  We do f*ck all about it.


We suck at everything.  Badly.  We're number one?  At what?  Criminals in expensive suits and German cars?  GAng violence?  fractured families?  Gullibility? Absurd news stories?  Ripping each other a new ass every time some mongoloid we voted into office tells us that "~n demographic is "ruining our fair nation! excoriate them!"?


If we can't see past the few dozen football games we're given to play with while cocksuckers inc. dismantles the ground under our feet, we deserve to suck.  It's all just little football matches.  Yeah, this one, too.  Now you go out and you pick up one of those flags and you bark a lot of venom at everybody not carrying that flag!  For democracy!
 
2014-03-19 11:56:04 PM  
Opera edits funny.   Sorry about that.  We're turning turning out
 
2014-03-19 11:56:19 PM  

Pincy: Bit'O'Gristle: I really don't have a problem with a gf or wife not wanting / or not ready to have a baby. I do have issue with them killing my child without asking if i might like to raise it. yes yes, i know...my body..blah blah blah...but ....1/2 of that babies genetic material comes from the father, who has been reduced to a monthly check at best, and a non person with no say at worst. I wonder how a woman would feel if she had to ask the man if he agreed to an abortion first? Oh yes, they would just do it anyway behind his back. I forgot. Interesting, isn't it, if i falcon punch a pregnant woman, and cause her to lose her baby, thats murder. If she does an abortion, (the same result) its ok? Hmmm. Odd society we live in.

Sucks to be a man, doesn't it.  If only we could have the babies.  Maybe some day science will make that possible.  For the meantime we'll just have to try and and live with the burden that nature didn't give us a uterus.


And if it is size that matters females still win in ovum vs sperm importance:

The human egg is the single largest cell in a woman's body.
It would take 15,000 sperm to equal the size of a single egg.

Not to mention the ovum contains things like organelles such as the mitochondria.
 
2014-03-19 11:58:27 PM  
If anybody still thinks that reproductive biology is a contest somebody wins and not an equation, that person is a clinical imbecile.
 
2014-03-20 12:55:43 AM  

Unoriginal_Username: People shouldn't care who has kids or who doesn't. My only question for her is this. If you don't want kids why not get your tubes tied? And doctors shouldn't be able to ask why, just do it. Same for guys getting a vasectomy. The reasons don't matter. It's what they want.


Because doctors are insanely resistant to doing that for women who haven't already got kids. Why, I don't know, but it's practically impossible to get them to agree to it. (Much more so than about giving men a vasectomy.)
 
2014-03-20 01:23:19 AM  

miscreant: Rapmaster2000: A hysterectomy costs about 10 grand with time off of work for recovery thrown in. I'd say you're out about $15k on average.

A tubal ligation is not a hysterectomy.


True, however, it's also not a vasectomy. From Wikipedia: "Tubal ligation is considered major surgery requiring the patient to undergo spinal anesthesia.... The corresponding male surgical sterilization procedure known as vasectomy is is considered minor surgery done with local anesthesia and typically done in an outpatient setting." And then goes on to say it's only 99% effective the first year, with decreasing effectiveness after that, AND when it fails, about a fifth of the resulting pregnancies are (very dangerous) ectopic pregnancies. Why would you put yourself at such a terrible risk when IUDs, hormonal, and barrier methods are just as effective and DON'T involve major surgery and spinal anesthesia?

Plus, since you still ovulate, you still have periods and PMS and all that jazz. And since you still have your uterus, unlike a hysterectomy, if you have endometriosis or uterine cysts, it does nothing to help. Control of one or more of these issues are the major reason a lot of women take the Pill in the first place. So a lot of women still can't go off the birth control they're on by getting this.

And for the pro-life (and the would-rather-prevent-than-abort) crowd... if you DO get pregnant after getting this, you HAVE to get an abortion, only with much more dangerous surgery, because the pregnancy is non-viable and endangers your life. So yeah, just a bad plan all around.

/never wants kids
//never getting this done either
///you can have my Pills when you pry them from my cold dead uterus!
 
2014-03-20 01:29:44 AM  

ornithopter: "Tubal ligation is considered major surgery requiring the patient to undergo spinal anesthesia.... The corresponding male surgical sterilization procedure known as vasectomy is is considered minor surgery done with local anesthesia and typically done in an outpatient setting."


My tubal ligation was done through my bellybutton and was an outpatient procedure. I was out in about five hours, and that's from walking into the clinic to wobbling out still coming out of sedation. I don't think I underwent spinal anesthesia but I was knocked out and intubated. I had novasure done at the same time, which is a type of uterine ablation.

What I can tell you is the bruising from my IV actually took longer to heal than the bruise stripe around the incision. I was sore for about a week and operating as normal inside of a month.

/the goddamn IV bruising lasted nearly two months
//went from a six day period with two to three heavy days to five days of spotting
 
2014-03-20 01:50:15 AM  

ornithopter: miscreant: Rapmaster2000: A hysterectomy costs about 10 grand with time off of work for recovery thrown in. I'd say you're out about $15k on average.

A tubal ligation is not a hysterectomy.

True, however, it's also not a vasectomy. From Wikipedia: "Tubal ligation is considered major surgery requiring the patient to undergo spinal anesthesia.... The corresponding male surgical sterilization procedure known as vasectomy is is considered minor surgery done with local anesthesia and typically done in an outpatient setting." And then goes on to say it's only 99% effective the first year, with decreasing effectiveness after that, AND when it fails, about a fifth of the resulting pregnancies are (very dangerous) ectopic pregnancies. Why would you put yourself at such a terrible risk when IUDs, hormonal, and barrier methods are just as effective and DON'T involve major surgery and spinal anesthesia?

Plus, since you still ovulate, you still have periods and PMS and all that jazz. And since you still have your uterus, unlike a hysterectomy, if you have endometriosis or uterine cysts, it does nothing to help. Control of one or more of these issues are the major reason a lot of women take the Pill in the first place. So a lot of women still can't go off the birth control they're on by getting this.

And for the pro-life (and the would-rather-prevent-than-abort) crowd... if you DO get pregnant after getting this, you HAVE to get an abortion, only with much more dangerous surgery, because the pregnancy is non-viable and endangers your life. So yeah, just a bad plan all around.

/never wants kids
//never getting this done either
///you can have my Pills when you pry them from my cold dead uterus!


I'm not an expert on the subject, and I agree there are a lot of good options for long-term birth control. But i disagree that barrier methods are as effective as tubal ligation.

Even with perfect use, condoms can break. They have something like a 1-2 % failure rate.

My understanding is tubal ligation is less common these days than implants like essure, which is a nonsurgical permanent birth control method performed as an outpatient procedure.
 
2014-03-20 01:51:10 AM  

ginandbacon: People_are_Idiots: ginandbacon: People_are_Idiots: FMLA is sort of paid, again depending on the business. Even my mother's workplace (a miniscule second-hand store) used FMLA is the form of PTO

38% of PART-TIME workers in this country have no PTO. None.

FTFY. Also note that 90% of full-time workers currently get some form of PTO (my mother's workplace offered PTO for vacation or sick usage (including FMLA), whereas my time off is seperated between sick and vacation). http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/paid-vacation-what-are-rights- 3 3485.html

And women are more likely than men to not have it.

[citation needed]. This one disagrees. http://money.cnn.com/2012/08/16/news/economy/paid-time-off/

"The breakdown by race and gender showed barely any gap between men and women, or whites and blacks -- an encouraging sign, said Heather Boushey, senior economist with the Center for American Progress."

Typically, those working with less income usually means less of an education.

Free preschool is free childcare. We don't have that. We're pretty much the only developed nation that doesn't. And we don't have paid maternity leave. Same thing.

Again, even my father agrees, why do you -need- pre-school? If you want daycare, there are many available and more affordable. You can even hire a babysitter (my mother had a babysitter for us, when my father and her were UNEMPLOYED), or use a relative for free (preferably one you trust). Let kids be kids, instill some respect and discipline, and send them to school.

The US ranks:
26th in preschool participation for 4-year-olds
24th in preschool participation for 3-year-olds
22nd in the typical age that children begin early childhood-education programs
15th in teacher-to-child ratio in early childhood-education programs
21st in total investment in early childhood education relative to country wealth
Among OECD countries.

"center-based day care programs modestly benefited middle-class children in early language and mathematics learning, youngsters from poor families experienced double those gains...the rate of death among children receiving care in private homes was 16 times that of children in child care centers."

68% of women in the labor force have some college or a college degree compared to 61% of men.

"...half of all first-time moms in the United States are able to take any paid leave after childbirth; and just a fifth of working women with young children receive leave with full pay..."

"Employer-provided medical care was available to 85 percent of full-time private industry workers in the United States in March 2013, the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics reported today. By contrast, only 24 percent of part-time workers had medical care benefits available. Access, or availability, also varied by employment size: 57 percent for all workers in small establishments (those with fewer than 100 employees), compared with 85 percent in medium and large establishments (those with 100 employees or more)...Paid sick leave benefits were also more commonly offered to full-time workers and those in medium and large establishments in private industry. Plans were offered to 74 percent of full-time workers and 24 percent of part-time workers. Similarly, 51 percent of workers in small establishments and 72 percent in medium and large establishments had access to a paid sick leave benefit."

Link, Link, Link, Link, Link.

With all due respect to you and your father, I am not particularly interested in policy based on anecdotes.


And this is why you are awesome.
 
2014-03-20 02:02:41 AM  

People_are_Idiots: ginandbacon: People_are_Idiots: FMLA is sort of paid, again depending on the business. Even my mother's workplace (a miniscule second-hand store) used FMLA is the form of PTO

38% of PART-TIME workers in this country have no PTO. None.

FTFY. Also note that 90% of full-time workers currently get some form of PTO (my mother's workplace offered PTO for vacation or sick usage (including FMLA), whereas my time off is seperated between sick and vacation). http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/paid-vacation-what-are-rights- 3 3485.html

And women are more likely than men to not have it.

[citation needed]. This one disagrees. http://money.cnn.com/2012/08/16/news/economy/paid-time-off/

"The breakdown by race and gender showed barely any gap between men and women, or whites and blacks -- an encouraging sign, said Heather Boushey, senior economist with the Center for American Progress."

Typically, those working with less income usually means less of an education.

Free preschool is free childcare. We don't have that. We're pretty much the only developed nation that doesn't. And we don't have paid maternity leave. Same thing.

Again, even my father agrees, why do you -need- pre-school? If you want daycare, there are many available and more affordable. You can even hire a babysitter (my mother had a babysitter for us, when my father and her were UNEMPLOYED), or use a relative for free (preferably one you trust). Let kids be kids, instill some respect and discipline, and send them to school.


I hesitate to engage with you, because i have seen some of your previous completely absurd claims (like water needs to be brought back to life).

But i will just point out that headstart, the free pre-school program for low income families, is the most effective federal program of all time in America. It provides nutrition, early intervention for detecting developmental delays. Language skills for those raised in a home without English.

It helps poor children get more of an equal chance in school, prevents them from being held back once they start elem school. It teaches social skills and has innumerable other benefits, I'm sure it would be easy to google the proven results.

The fact is, it saves tax-payers money in the long run, with less kids dropping out of school because they were so far behind when they started they could never catch up.

Do i think it should be mandatory? No. Do i think federally-funded pre-school has a proven track record for increasing chances of success later in life? Yes.
 
2014-03-20 02:13:46 AM  

o'really: And this is why you are awesome.


Well sheesh! Thank you.

Hey, is that cute pooch yours? That is one adorable pittie. What a great smile.
 
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