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(The Raw Story)   Feminist woman says she doesn't want to have children. Twitter responds in expected fashion   ( rawstory.com) divider line
    More: Obvious, Twitter, feminists, photo archive, bad faith, abortion debate, fashions  
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10610 clicks; posted to Main » on 19 Mar 2014 at 1:24 PM (3 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



357 Comments     (+0 »)
 
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2014-03-19 11:15:22 AM  
Yes, yes.. people who express their opinions over opinions you've expressed are assholes.  We know that.
 
2014-03-19 11:18:05 AM  
After reading that article, I think she is making the right call because she comes off as way too self-absorbed to be a parent.
 
2014-03-19 11:24:27 AM  
The fundamental problem of the internet is that anyone is allowed to participate, regardless of how utterly retarded or completely ignorant they may be.
 
2014-03-19 11:31:17 AM  
I think that recognizing that you're too self-absorbed to have children is a good thing.

I'm there.
 
2014-03-19 11:35:44 AM  

reprobate1125: I think that recognizing that you're too self-absorbed to have children is a good thing.


I do too, but for some people, there is no good reason not to have children. A lot of people can't even process the concept of not wanting children, so they assume something is wrong with people who don't.
 
2014-03-19 11:38:40 AM  

sigdiamond2000: reprobate1125: I think that recognizing that you're too self-absorbed to have children is a good thing.

I do too, but for some people, there is no good reason not to have children. A lot of people can't even process the concept of not wanting children, so they assume something is wrong with people who don't.


Those people are just as wrong as people who can't think of any justification for having kids. Parenting is hard work. You can't put yourself first again until they are able to take care of themselves. It's not for everyone. I know irresponsible people who shouldn't have kids and great people who would make great parents if they tried but choose not to.
 
2014-03-19 11:41:13 AM  

Nabb1: sigdiamond2000: reprobate1125: I think that recognizing that you're too self-absorbed to have children is a good thing.

I do too, but for some people, there is no good reason not to have children. A lot of people can't even process the concept of not wanting children, so they assume something is wrong with people who don't.

Those people are just as wrong as people who can't think of any justification for having kids. Parenting is hard work. You can't put yourself first again until they are able to take care of themselves. It's not for everyone. I know irresponsible people who shouldn't have kids and great people who would make great parents if they tried but choose not to.


I agree.
 
2014-03-19 11:43:06 AM  

Nabb1: After reading that article, I think she is making the right call because she comes off as way too self-absorbed to be a parent.


Which is exactly why I am never going to have kids. I wish more people would be honest with themselves about parenthood.
 
2014-03-19 11:46:02 AM  

Nabb1: sigdiamond2000: reprobate1125: I think that recognizing that you're too self-absorbed to have children is a good thing.

I do too, but for some people, there is no good reason not to have children. A lot of people can't even process the concept of not wanting children, so they assume something is wrong with people who don't.

Those people are just as wrong as people who can't think of any justification for having kids. Parenting is hard work. You can't put yourself first again until they are able to take care of themselves. It's not for everyone. I know irresponsible people who shouldn't have kids and great people who would make great parents if they tried but choose not to.


people think my wife and I would make great parents (don't ask me why, I have no bloody idea) - neither of us really want kids, and we get a ton of shiat for it from people who think they know everything about our lives and how we live.  Why do people (not saying you) have to tell us that we are horrible people for the decisions we make in our lives?
 
2014-03-19 11:46:11 AM  
I'm definitely not trying to sound all self-righteous because my job sounds a lot better than I personally am, but I've dedicated my life to building orphanages and clinics around the world and that would be extremely difficult to do if I had kids. Notice that I didn't say impossibly, but I've chosen to (some would say sacrifice) by not having kids of my own be able to help a lot more kids.
 
2014-03-19 12:07:02 PM  

Nabb1: After reading that article, I think she is making the right call because she comes off as way too self-absorbed to be a parent.


I don't get self absorbed at all. She doesn't want kids, and she doesn't want to deal with people who either a) tell her she'll change her mind or b) ask what's wrong with her

Believe me. It's farking annoying when people feel that your fertility is a topic of conversation.
 
2014-03-19 12:14:41 PM  
When only one segment of a population is subjected to limitations on their right to determine the course of their lives, something is wrong in that society.

This conversation isn't about children. It's about women and how free or not they are. Having children is a leading cause of poverty in this country for women. We do not have free preschools run by the government. We do not offer paid maternity leave. Pregnancy is very hard on women physically and is actually more dangerous than abortions. And children are insanely expensive.

I love children. I have many in my life and I enjoy playing with them. Cooking with and for them. Even watching Dora. I was a nanny for a life-long friend and her wonderful husband for six years. The eldest is getting her driver's license today and I am more than a little traumatized by that fact.

I am not selfish. I am not lazy. Or fickle. But I never wanted children.

And I am not alone. Fewer women are choosing to have children. And fewer are having abortions. BC is almost completely effective and almost universally available. (Now finally.) I imagine those rates will continue to decline as millions of women gain access to control over their bodies.

The idea of blaming women for not having children when it is such a burden in this country is flat out misogyny. What about all the childless men? Are they monsters? Do we look at them and think awful things about them?
 
2014-03-19 12:17:55 PM  

what_now: Nabb1: After reading that article, I think she is making the right call because she comes off as way too self-absorbed to be a parent.

I don't get self absorbed at all. She doesn't want kids, and she doesn't want to deal with people who either a) tell her she'll change her mind or b) ask what's wrong with her

Believe me. It's farking annoying when people feel that your fertility is a topic of conversation.


She wrote and published a column about her fertility choices. She then took umbrage when some people took issue with her opinions (and some of those angry comments she highlighted were directed at her calling children "time-sucking monsters") and wrote another column about how dare they! Okay, fine, it's her choice and her choice alone, but when you go around writing columns calling children "time-sucking monsters", you are obviously trying to goad people into a response, and whose time would be "sucked" if she had kids? Hers. Yes, her time is so precious that any offspring that she bore would be "monsters" for daring to demand any of it. Her entire position revolves around "me, me, me, me, me" and most of her preceding column was devoted to demeaning and belittling people who don't agree with her philosophy and then a bunch of self-absorbed twaddle about how unappealing everything is to her.

Oh, and she's a terrible writer.
 
2014-03-19 12:25:01 PM  

what_now: Nabb1: After reading that article, I think she is making the right call because she comes off as way too self-absorbed to be a parent.

I don't get self absorbed at all. She doesn't want kids, and she doesn't want to deal with people who either a) tell her she'll change her mind or b) ask what's wrong with her

Believe me. It's farking annoying when people feel that your fertility is a topic of conversation.


So ... you ovulating?
 
2014-03-19 12:33:37 PM  
I may look at a person/couple and think WTF are they doing with a child.  Based on my opinion of their intelligence, personal choices and lifestyle (not sexuality, way of living) it just seems stupid as hell for them to have a baby.

I may look at people and say they should NEVER have children because I don't believe they are cut out to be parents.

But I will never question a person/couple who have determined that they do not want to become parents.  They know their life so much better than I do and know something that I don't about it which says "no children for me".

Like the person up thread who doesn't want children because they build orphanages and clinics around the world.  They made a tough for them choice not to have children so they can help so many more.
 
2014-03-19 12:52:08 PM  

Marcus Aurelius: The fundamental problem of the internet is that anyone is allowed to participate, regardless of how utterly retarded or completely ignorant they may be.


You could say the same thing about parenting.
 
2014-03-19 01:09:55 PM  

BizarreMan: I may look at people and say they should NEVER have children because I don't believe they are cut out to be parents.

But I will never question a person/couple who have determined that they do not want to become parents.



Bingo.
 
2014-03-19 01:10:29 PM  
I thought Tweets had to be short and to the point.  If you want to terse it up a bit, I suggest going with this John Water's gem...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sdTcPLDxcu0
 
2014-03-19 01:26:37 PM  
img.fark.net

/oblig
 
2014-03-19 01:27:26 PM  

James!: Marcus Aurelius: The fundamental problem of the internet is that anyone is allowed to participate, regardless of how utterly retarded or completely ignorant they may be.

You could say the same thing about parenting.



media.tumblr.com
 
2014-03-19 01:27:33 PM  
How dare you take my provocative comment offensively!
 
2014-03-19 01:29:27 PM  
I keep hearing that Twitter is used for revolutions and empowerment all across the Middle East, but all I see it used for is public slapfights between loudmouths.

Maybe they get a different Twitter than we do.
 
2014-03-19 01:30:42 PM  
Oh boy...

reactiongifs.me
 
2014-03-19 01:31:15 PM  

HawgWild: what_now: Nabb1: After reading that article, I think she is making the right call because she comes off as way too self-absorbed to be a parent.

I don't get self absorbed at all. She doesn't want kids, and she doesn't want to deal with people who either a) tell her she'll change her mind or b) ask what's wrong with her

Believe me. It's farking annoying when people feel that your fertility is a topic of conversation.

So ... you ovulating?


Ovulating stripes make more money on average than ones that aren't. Men can tell. I know I can.
 
2014-03-19 01:31:57 PM  
Some people should not have kids.  I consider it a gift to the human race if they figure this out before they breed.  Instead of criticizing these people we should be honoring them.
 
2014-03-19 01:32:17 PM  

Rapmaster2000: I keep hearing that Twitter is used for revolutions and empowerment all across the Middle East, but all I see it used for is public slapfights between loudmouths.

Maybe they get a different Twitter than we do.


It's almost like they built a platform specifically for narcissistic idiots.
 
2014-03-19 01:32:17 PM  

Cymbal: HawgWild: what_now: Nabb1: After reading that article, I think she is making the right call because she comes off as way too self-absorbed to be a parent.

I don't get self absorbed at all. She doesn't want kids, and she doesn't want to deal with people who either a) tell her she'll change her mind or b) ask what's wrong with her

Believe me. It's farking annoying when people feel that your fertility is a topic of conversation.

So ... you ovulating?

Ovulating stripes make more money on average than ones that aren't. Men can tell. I know I can.


Strippers, not stripes. Heh.
 
2014-03-19 01:32:22 PM  
People shouldn't care who has kids or who doesn't. My only question for her is this. If you don't want kids why not get your tubes tied? And doctors shouldn't be able to ask why, just do it. Same for guys getting a vasectomy. The reasons don't matter. It's what they want.
 
2014-03-19 01:32:23 PM  
This made me LOL.

pbs.twimg.com
 
2014-03-19 01:32:30 PM  
Meh, this is Amanda Marcotte, the author who all but accused a kid of rape for asking a celebrity to his prom over youtube.  Take her with a grain of salt.
 
2014-03-19 01:32:48 PM  
A feminist is someone with the radical notion that women are men's rightful superiors.
 
2014-03-19 01:33:19 PM  

vartian: Nabb1: After reading that article, I think she is making the right call because she comes off as way too self-absorbed to be a parent.

Which is exactly why I am never going to have kids. I wish more people would be honest with themselves about parenthood.


I really get tired of people insisting that me and my wife would be great parents. We bloody well know that we'd be terrible at it, so why put ourselves and some innocent kid through that gauntlet.
 
2014-03-19 01:34:08 PM  

ManateeGag


Why do people (not saying you) have to tell us that we are horrible people for the decisions we make in our lives?


Because your decisions are not the same as theirs and they are now terrified that they made the wrong choices.

Or they never actually realized that they had a choice (e.g. not to have kids), went with the flow, and are now terrified that they made the wrong choices.
 
2014-03-19 01:34:10 PM  

vartian: Which is exactly why I am never going to have kids. I wish more people would be honest with themselves about parenthood.


I used to say this and mean it.  But after I became a parent I realized how wrong I was.  I can't imagine my life without my daughter, she's awesome.
 
2014-03-19 01:34:17 PM  
Can we just agree that all involved here come of as looking slightly douche-tastic?
 
2014-03-19 01:34:19 PM  
blog.estately.com
 
2014-03-19 01:34:50 PM  
My wife and I get constantly asked when we are going to have kids. She's 28 I'm 29, and we have absolutely no interest in having them. She works with kids daily, and I work with sick kids daily, that is more than enough for us.

I have heard everything on the bingo board at least twice...I don't understand what is so damn interesting about my reproductive status for uninvolved parties.
 
2014-03-19 01:34:54 PM  
I'm almost 43 years old. I didn't want kids early on in life and I sure as fark don't want any now. I feel like I'm doing society a favor.
 
2014-03-19 01:34:59 PM  
"The official line of anti-choicers..."

I'm pro-choice, but saying "pro-lifers" are "anti-choicers" is about as stupid as saying "pro-choicers" are "anti-lifers".
 
2014-03-19 01:35:40 PM  

lockers: Rapmaster2000: I keep hearing that Twitter is used for revolutions and empowerment all across the Middle East, but all I see it used for is public slapfights between loudmouths.

Maybe they get a different Twitter than we do.

It's almost like they built a platform specifically for narcissistic idiots.


I thought that was Facebook?
 
2014-03-19 01:36:30 PM  

ristst: vartian: Which is exactly why I am never going to have kids. I wish more people would be honest with themselves about parenthood.

I used to say this and mean it.  But after I became a parent I realized how wrong I was.  I can't imagine my life without my daughter, she's awesome.


In other words, you are wrong vartian, you clearly don't know yourself as well as ristst does.
 
2014-03-19 01:37:28 PM  

Unoriginal_Username: People shouldn't care who has kids or who doesn't. My only question for her is this. If you don't want kids why not get your tubes tied? And doctors shouldn't be able to ask why, just do it. Same for guys getting a vasectomy. The reasons don't matter. It's what they want.


A hysterectomy costs about 10 grand with time off of work for recovery thrown in.  I'd say you're out about $15k on average.

A vasectomy makes more sense because it's reversible, you don't have final control over whether the child is birthed, and you're fertile for the rest of your life.
 
2014-03-19 01:37:48 PM  
Sooooo.... anal then?
 
2014-03-19 01:37:54 PM  

H31N0US: I thought that was Facebook?


Facebook was built for people who want to post pics of their kids for grandma.
 
2014-03-19 01:38:24 PM  

Philibuster: My wife and I get constantly asked when we are going to have kids. She's 28 I'm 29, and we have absolutely no interest in having them. She works with kids daily, and I work with sick kids daily, that is more than enough for us.

I have heard everything on the bingo board at least twice...I don't understand what is so damn interesting about my reproductive status for uninvolved parties.


When people ask if Mrs. PCoC and I have kids, I always tell them, "Oh, we can't have kids."

The reason I do this is because about half the time, the person will say, "Really? Why not?"

And then I can reply, "Because we farkin' hate them."
 
2014-03-19 01:38:32 PM  
Wait, so they used racial slurs against her?
 
2014-03-19 01:38:36 PM  

Pants full of macaroni!!: [img.fark.net image 400x462]

/oblig


Missing a couple squares: "Good; please don't have kids. They would probably be self absorbed assholes, too" and "Yay, more resources for my kids!"
 
2014-03-19 01:39:37 PM  
Is this really a problem for some people?

It's not like she's purposely getting knocked up and having serial abortions, but rather taking the appropriate steps to prevent pregnancy in the first place.

Besides, do the fundies really want another feminist (probable atheist as well) advocate running around in 20 years?

//I say, I say that last part's a joke, flew right by ya didn't it.
icons.iconarchive.com .
 
2014-03-19 01:39:51 PM  
I always used to get the "You would make such a great Dad" line from people.
HOW the F*CK do they know? So annoying. I might be an OK person in general, but you have no way of telling what kind of parent someone will be.

Anyway, I am a Dad now, but don't really think I'm all that great. It is a lot of hard work.
 
2014-03-19 01:39:57 PM  
Meh.

Did I say Meh?  Oh yeah, I did....
 
2014-03-19 01:39:59 PM  
Twitter troll writes article aboit the responses she got from the twitter troll she twatted. Film at eleven.
 
2014-03-19 01:40:11 PM  
"You would make a great mother" is the one I always get.

No, I don't think so. I would be frazzled. I seem to be great with kids because I get to go home and recharge in between visits.
 
2014-03-19 01:41:16 PM  

ManateeGag: Nabb1: sigdiamond2000: reprobate1125: I think that recognizing that you're too self-absorbed to have children is a good thing.

I do too, but for some people, there is no good reason not to have children. A lot of people can't even process the concept of not wanting children, so they assume something is wrong with people who don't.

Those people are just as wrong as people who can't think of any justification for having kids. Parenting is hard work. You can't put yourself first again until they are able to take care of themselves. It's not for everyone. I know irresponsible people who shouldn't have kids and great people who would make great parents if they tried but choose not to.

people think my wife and I would make great parents (don't ask me why, I have no bloody idea) - neither of us really want kids, and we get a ton of shiat for it from people who think they know everything about our lives and how we live.  Why do people (not saying you) have to tell us that we are horrible people for the decisions we make in our lives?


I'm betting they regret their decisions and the fact you made a different decision and are happy about it is a constant reminder they farked up

/married
//has three kids
///has no money
 
2014-03-19 01:41:49 PM  

Because People in power are Stupid: A feminist is someone with the radical notion that women are men's rightful superiors.


It shouldn't be, but in many cases that is the atitude feminists take. Anything beyond striving for equality and you lose any moral high ground. Also, arguing for superiority is very unlikely to succeed.
 
2014-03-19 01:42:56 PM  

meat0918: Is this really a problem for some people?


In the grand scheme of things, no. In her twitter-trollverse? absolutely.
 
2014-03-19 01:43:07 PM  
I have two kids. Its awesome.

Other people dont want kids, thats awesome.

Heck I prefer to be friends with childless people. Its a lot easier to hang out with them because they dont have  to find a sitter :P
 
2014-03-19 01:43:17 PM  

lockers: H31N0US: I thought that was Facebook?

Facebook was built for people who want to post pics of their kids for grandma.


Oh yeah...that was one of the reasons I abandoned the account a couple years ago.

Posting an endless stream of your snowflakes would be a form of narcissism too though, no?
 
2014-03-19 01:43:35 PM  
just had to say something, i work in a clinic and aborted fetuses are MUCH uglier than this lady. that twittererere were way off in her remarks
 
2014-03-19 01:43:47 PM  
"Yay I can do what I want and when it pleases me.  Oh, and I have tons of disposable income".

Yeah, people like this have so many problems.  They're only trying to mask the pain which comes from their indecision where to spend their money next.
 
2014-03-19 01:44:44 PM  

Prank Call of Cthulhu: [blog.estately.com image 777x419]


That is clever and funny. But also probably doesn't fully translate. My wife and I are pretty much broke all the time but I would much rather have my kids than money. Money and kids would be ideal, of course. Some day. Maybe.

But I don't care if others don't have kids. And as said, if someone doesn't want kids, they shouldn't have them.

It goes back to many people thinking their opinion is the right one, and if someone has a different opinion on the same issue, the other person HAS TO BE WRONG!
 
2014-03-19 01:44:45 PM  
Bumper stickers seen in my neighborhood: "Cats, not kids." "If you can't feed'em, don't breed'em."

/agree
 
2014-03-19 01:45:53 PM  
Can't we just all agree anything with a heart beat has rights and go from there?

This pro-choice pro-life rhetoric/garbage just hides the fact that no one wants to sit down and define what constitutes "life"
 
2014-03-19 01:46:18 PM  

Philibuster: My wife and I get constantly asked when we are going to have kids. She's 28 I'm 29, and we have absolutely no interest in having them. She works with kids daily, and I work with sick kids daily, that is more than enough for us.

I have heard everything on the bingo board at least twice...I don't understand what is so damn interesting about my reproductive status for uninvolved parties.


It's my theory that the people that run down those who do not wish to have children are usually people who've had children, but cannot bring themselves to admit that they wish they hadn't. I'm 38,like being alone,  have never liked children and I know that if I ever did have one I would resent it and would want nothing at all to do with it. Yes, I'm probably an asshole, but at least I have the self awareness enough to know that I have absolutely no business being responsible for a child. That sure shuts 'em up when people start telling me how much I'm going to regret not having kids though.
 
2014-03-19 01:47:31 PM  

Rapmaster2000: A hysterectomy costs about 10 grand with time off of work for recovery thrown in. I'd say you're out about $15k on average.


A tubal ligation is not a hysterectomy.
 
2014-03-19 01:48:26 PM  
Without bothering to RTFA, let me guess. Prolifers threatened her with death in the name of a dead-guy-on-a-stick?

Close?
 
2014-03-19 01:48:58 PM  

TheExcalibur: Can't we just all agree anything with a heart beat has rights and go from there?

This pro-choice pro-life rhetoric/garbage just hides the fact that no one wants to sit down and define what constitutes "life"


What does abortion have to do with this thread?
 
2014-03-19 01:49:14 PM  
"I don't want to have babies!"

"That works for me."


"But I totally want a stiff one in my girl place, like, a LOT!"


"Good luck to you."


Next attention whore, please.


And some tea.
 
2014-03-19 01:49:24 PM  

GanjSmokr: "The official line of anti-choicers..."

I'm pro-choice, but saying "pro-lifers" are "anti-choicers" is about as stupid as saying "pro-choicers" are "anti-lifers".


Pro-choice = "It's your choice to terminate the pregnancy."
Pro-life = "Your pregnancy must be maintained at all costs."
Anti-choice = "You don't have a choice, you must have children or you're a failure as a human being."
 
2014-03-19 01:49:45 PM  

El Freak: It's my theory that the people that run down those who do not wish to have children are usually people who've had children, but cannot bring themselves to admit that they wish they hadn't.


BINGO!!!
 
2014-03-19 01:49:56 PM  

TheExcalibur: Can't we just all agree anything with a heart beat has rights and go from there?


Plenty of people are removed from life support / feeding tube withdrawn / etc., even if there is nothing wrong with their heart.  It's the brain that makes someone a person rather than a vegetable.
 
2014-03-19 01:50:00 PM  
I think her point isn't so much that "people who disagree with me reacted to my article," but that their comments reveal that it's not about life as much as it's about controlling women's sexuality.  I don't think that's true of everyone or even the majority of pro-lifers, but it's definitely a strong undercurrent.
 
2014-03-19 01:50:41 PM  

vartian: Nabb1: After reading that article, I think she is making the right call because she comes off as way too self-absorbed to be a parent.

Which is exactly why I am never going to have kids. I wish more people would be honest with themselves about parenthood.


You are correct - the problem though is in the fact that people that think like you are not having kids and people like the Duggers have 26 (or some odd number) kids. There are future generations where the rationality gene will disappear in a self-selected breeding

Then we should all be thankful we will be dead
 
2014-03-19 01:50:44 PM  
24.media.tumblr.com
 
2014-03-19 01:50:51 PM  

bunner: "I don't want to have babies!"

"That works for me."


"But I totally want a stiff one in my girl place, like, a LOT!"


"Good luck to you."


Next attention whore, please.


And some tea.


I think we can all agree that women who like sex are morally reprehensible.
 
2014-03-19 01:51:04 PM  

H31N0US: Oh yeah...that was one of the reasons I abandoned the account a couple years ago.

Posting an endless stream of your snowflakes would be a form of narcissism too though, no


Nah, it's just boring. That's okay though, chances are that you and all your friends are boring, everyday individuals. I yawn everytime I post my kid on facebook. You're welcome grandma.
 
2014-03-19 01:51:12 PM  

Marcus Aurelius: The fundamental problem of the internet is that anyone is allowed to participate, regardless of how utterly retarded or completely ignorant they may be.


welcometofark.jpg
 
2014-03-19 01:51:19 PM  
She's probably shooting blanks anyways.
 
2014-03-19 01:51:36 PM  

Prank Call of Cthulhu: This made me LOL.

[pbs.twimg.com image 499x411]



Lulz.

One of them (center-right) looks like my cat.
 
2014-03-19 01:51:46 PM  

Rapmaster2000: Unoriginal_Username: People shouldn't care who has kids or who doesn't. My only question for her is this. If you don't want kids why not get your tubes tied? And doctors shouldn't be able to ask why, just do it. Same for guys getting a vasectomy. The reasons don't matter. It's what they want.

A hysterectomy costs about 10 grand with time off of work for recovery thrown in.  I'd say you're out about $15k on average.

A vasectomy makes more sense because it's reversible, you don't have final control over whether the child is birthed, and you're fertile for the rest of your life.


Sure it isn't cheap but if you are serious about it then why not cough up the money. Would it not be easier and cheaper in the long run? Using her logic, if her birth control failed she would get an abortion, how much do those run? And what happens if she gets pregnant again?
 
2014-03-19 01:51:47 PM  
Raising my roomate is enough. Why she pissed on the kitchen floor when the bathroom was 10 feet away ill never know
 
2014-03-19 01:51:52 PM  

Nabb1: what_now: Nabb1: After reading that article, I think she is making the right call because she comes off as way too self-absorbed to be a parent.

I don't get self absorbed at all. She doesn't want kids, and she doesn't want to deal with people who either a) tell her she'll change her mind or b) ask what's wrong with her

Believe me. It's farking annoying when people feel that your fertility is a topic of conversation.

She wrote and published a column about her fertility choices. She then took umbrage when some people took issue with her opinions (and some of those angry comments she highlighted were directed at her calling children "time-sucking monsters") and wrote another column about how dare they! Okay, fine, it's her choice and her choice alone, but when you go around writing columns calling children "time-sucking monsters", you are obviously trying to goad people into a response, and whose time would be "sucked" if she had kids? Hers. Yes, her time is so precious that any offspring that she bore would be "monsters" for daring to demand any of it. Her entire position revolves around "me, me, me, me, me" and most of her preceding column was devoted to demeaning and belittling people who don't agree with her philosophy and then a bunch of self-absorbed twaddle about how unappealing everything is to her.

Oh, and she's a terrible writer.


I see.
So her column(s) are also -  time-sucking monsters
According to her children = time-sucking monsters
That means.....her columns = children.

That biatch lied to us!!

You are right...she invited this.  I don't think she has much to complain about.  Seems like a stupid ploy to sell bad columns.
 
2014-03-19 01:52:23 PM  

Jae0o0: I have two kids. Its awesome.

Other people dont want kids, thats awesome.

Heck I prefer to be friends with childless people. Its a lot easier to hang out with them because they dont have  to find a sitter :P


This would be my role.  Buddies that want to get away from the wife and kids for a weekend night, blatz gets the call.

1-media-cdn.foolz.us
 
2014-03-19 01:52:30 PM  

Rapmaster2000: Unoriginal_Username: People shouldn't care who has kids or who doesn't. My only question for her is this. If you don't want kids why not get your tubes tied? And doctors shouldn't be able to ask why, just do it. Same for guys getting a vasectomy. The reasons don't matter. It's what they want.

A hysterectomy costs about 10 grand with time off of work for recovery thrown in.  I'd say you're out about $15k on average.

A vasectomy makes more sense because it's reversible, you don't have final control over whether the child is birthed, and you're fertile for the rest of your life.


Many insurance plans will cover a vasectomy. Almost none will cover a reversal, and those run about $20k.
 
2014-03-19 01:52:31 PM  

miscreant: Rapmaster2000: A hysterectomy costs about 10 grand with time off of work for recovery thrown in. I'd say you're out about $15k on average.

A tubal ligation is not a hysterectomy.


Look, pal, I have a GED in medicine so I know what I"m talking about.  The name is Dr. Rapmaster2000:  GED.

I didn't drop out of medical school and then take an equivalency test to go around being called just Rapmaster2000.

/is not an expert on women's health
 
2014-03-19 01:52:38 PM  

RoboZombie: I always used to get the "You would make such a great Dad" line from people.
HOW the F*CK do they know? So annoying. I might be an OK person in general, but you have no way of telling what kind of parent someone will be.

Anyway, I am a Dad now, but don't really think I'm all that great. It is a lot of hard work.


Same here.  I don't know what it was about me that made everybody think I'd be a great dad.  Frankly I never expected to become one, due to biology.  Turned out it was only very unlikely instead of impossible.  Now... well, I do my best to be a good dad, but I know I'm not as good as I could be.
 
2014-03-19 01:52:46 PM  
As a women, Pro choice and liberal, I usually want to punch most feminist in the mouth. They are like vegans, annoying and sanctimonious pricks.
 
2014-03-19 01:53:47 PM  

GanjSmokr: "The official line of anti-choicers..."

I'm pro-choice, but saying "pro-lifers" are "anti-choicers" is about as stupid as saying "pro-choicers" are "anti-lifers".


but it is more accurate. Pro-lifers don't act like they are pro life. They just don't want those who are pregnant the right to choose to abort or not. They offer nothing in terms of a better option. You know, something that speaks of a better life.
 
2014-03-19 01:53:47 PM  

El Freak: It's my theory that the people that run down those who do not wish to have children are usually people who've had children, but cannot bring themselves to admit that they wish they hadn't.


I don't think it's so much that they wish they hadn't, it's that they've defined their life by it. It's the same reason some christians hate atheists. They don't regret their choice, they just hate being called silly for it.
 
2014-03-19 01:54:26 PM  

Prank Call of Cthulhu: This made me LOL.

[pbs.twimg.com image 499x411]


I'm still laughing ...
 
2014-03-19 01:54:47 PM  
STOP BREEDING!

/I want another kid and I need more room on this planet.
 
2014-03-19 01:55:02 PM  

Unoriginal_Username: Rapmaster2000: Unoriginal_Username: People shouldn't care who has kids or who doesn't. My only question for her is this. If you don't want kids why not get your tubes tied? And doctors shouldn't be able to ask why, just do it. Same for guys getting a vasectomy. The reasons don't matter. It's what they want.

A hysterectomy costs about 10 grand with time off of work for recovery thrown in.  I'd say you're out about $15k on average.

A vasectomy makes more sense because it's reversible, you don't have final control over whether the child is birthed, and you're fertile for the rest of your life.

Sure it isn't cheap but if you are serious about it then why not cough up the money. Would it not be easier and cheaper in the long run? Using her logic, if her birth control failed she would get an abortion, how much do those run? And what happens if she gets pregnant again?


In my perfect world, tubals and vascetomies would be free.  Pro-lifers should support this as well because it would help reduce the number of abortions.
 
2014-03-19 01:56:03 PM  

Prank Call of Cthulhu: This made me LOL.

[pbs.twimg.com image 499x411]


Yeah, I have to admit that it's a rare example of good, conservative humor. Spiteful, yet smart. Good jerb, "HEYWOOD JABLOME @FUSIGMA"
 
2014-03-19 01:57:48 PM  

Pincy: In my perfect world, tubals and vascetomies would be free. Pro-lifers should support this as well because it would help reduce the number of abortions.


That does not punish the sluts.
 
2014-03-19 01:57:54 PM  

Nabb1: sigdiamond2000: reprobate1125: I think that recognizing that you're too self-absorbed to have children is a good thing.

I do too, but for some people, there is no good reason not to have children. A lot of people can't even process the concept of not wanting children, so they assume something is wrong with people who don't.

Those people are just as wrong as people who can't think of any justification for having kids. Parenting is hard work. You can't put yourself first again until they are able to take care of themselves. It's not for everyone. I know irresponsible people who shouldn't have kids and great people who would make great parents if they tried but choose not to.


and it's not any of your business either way.
 
2014-03-19 01:58:07 PM  

Pincy: Pro-lifers should support this as well because it would help reduce the number of abortions.STFU


Really.
As soon as they start up, they should be pimpslapped into a mumble.
Then Baitchslapped into silence.
 
2014-03-19 01:58:11 PM  

groppet: Raising my roomate is enough. Why she pissed on the kitchen floor when the bathroom was 10 feet away ill never know


Damn groppet, I can never get enough of your roommate stories.  You sure she isn't, like, 2 or 3 years old?
 
2014-03-19 01:58:59 PM  

vartian: Nabb1: After reading that article, I think she is making the right call because she comes off as way too self-absorbed to be a parent.

Which is exactly why I am never going to have kids. I wish more people would be honest with themselves about parenthood.


I'm over 50 and never had kids. I don't regret that decision, either. It just wasn't for me. I have 3 godchildren and 2 nephews who I love dearly. When the older ones were kids (they're in their 20s and 30s now), I loved babysitting them and taking them to the zoo, the circus, etc. Nowadays, I occasionally babysit my very active 2-year-old nephew, and I always feel exhausted afterwards.

Two of my closest friends are an over-50 married couple who also never had children. They have 2 cats and a dog, though.

GanjSmokr: "The official line of anti-choicers..."

I'm pro-choice, but saying "pro-lifers" are "anti-choicers" is about as stupid as saying "pro-choicers" are "anti-lifers".


Yes. The proper term should be, "pro-forced-childbirth," because that's their ultimate goal.

/no cats, but is considering getting one
 
2014-03-19 01:59:42 PM  

Unoriginal_Username: Rapmaster2000: Unoriginal_Username: People shouldn't care who has kids or who doesn't. My only question for her is this. If you don't want kids why not get your tubes tied? And doctors shouldn't be able to ask why, just do it. Same for guys getting a vasectomy. The reasons don't matter. It's what they want.

A hysterectomy costs about 10 grand with time off of work for recovery thrown in.  I'd say you're out about $15k on average.

A vasectomy makes more sense because it's reversible, you don't have final control over whether the child is birthed, and you're fertile for the rest of your life.

Sure it isn't cheap but if you are serious about it then why not cough up the money. Would it not be easier and cheaper in the long run?  Using her logic, if her birth control failed she would get an abortion, how much do those run? And what happens if she gets pregnant again?


An abortion runs about $300.  Regardless, if the goal is to not have children then simply not getting pregnant would be logical.  There are many ways to do that without that surgery.  You've over thought the problem and chosen the biggest and most expensive solution when that isn't needed.  Most women can avoid pregnancy without resorting to surgery.

If you have to go with surgery, then go with Norplant.
 
2014-03-19 01:59:59 PM  
Except she didn't simply state she "doesn't want to have children". She wrote a deliberately-provocative article describing children as time-consuming monsters, then went into damsel-in-distress mode the moment the people she provoked fired invective back at her.

In other words she's a click-baiting troll.
 
2014-03-19 02:00:05 PM  
That, or we stop running around sticking labels on everything from our armchairs, secure in our superiority.
 
2014-03-19 02:00:20 PM  

Marcus Aurelius: The fundamental problem of the internet is that anyone is allowed to participate, regardless of how utterly retarded or completely ignorant they may be.


Democracy has the same problem.
 
2014-03-19 02:00:22 PM  

Prank Call of Cthulhu: This made me LOL.

[pbs.twimg.com image 499x411]


May I steal that?
 
2014-03-19 02:00:29 PM  

GanjSmokr: "The official line of anti-choicers..."

I'm pro-choice, but saying "pro-lifers" are "anti-choicers" is about as stupid as saying "pro-choicers" are "anti-lifers".


When these same "pro-lifers" are for the death penalty I think 'anti-choice' is a more accurate term.
 
2014-03-19 02:00:44 PM  

atomic-age: Nabb1: sigdiamond2000: reprobate1125: I think that recognizing that you're too self-absorbed to have children is a good thing.

I do too, but for some people, there is no good reason not to have children. A lot of people can't even process the concept of not wanting children, so they assume something is wrong with people who don't.

Those people are just as wrong as people who can't think of any justification for having kids. Parenting is hard work. You can't put yourself first again until they are able to take care of themselves. It's not for everyone. I know irresponsible people who shouldn't have kids and great people who would make great parents if they tried but choose not to.

and it's not any of your business either way.


I didn't say that it was. She's the one who wrote a column about it.
 
2014-03-19 02:01:11 PM  

Cerebral Ballsy: "You would make a great mother" is the one I always get.

No, I don't think so. I would be frazzled. I seem to be great with kids because I get to go home and recharge in between visits.


That or the other variation. "But you're so good with kids!"

Yeah, I am good with kids.  I'm good with kids because I only have to spend a finite amount of time around them, and then they go away.
 
2014-03-19 02:01:54 PM  

Savage Belief: Twitter troll writes article aboit the responses she got from the twitter troll she twatted. Film at eleven.


Hey look, it's another farker who doesn't know how to read or type!
 
2014-03-19 02:02:58 PM  

lockers: meat0918: Is this really a problem for some people?

In the grand scheme of things, no. In her twitter-trollverse? absolutely.


^^^ this is really it, she's just trying to stir up readership.
 
2014-03-19 02:03:08 PM  

Utter Genius: Except she didn't simply state she "doesn't want to have children". She wrote a deliberately-provocative article describing children as time-consuming monsters, then went into damsel-in-distress mode the moment the people she provoked fired invective back at her.

In other words she's a click-baiting troll.


Aaaaaaannnnddddddd we're done here.

Authoress reeks of self-absorbed douchebaggery.

What's the female equivalent of the fedora? Because that's definitely the vibe I'm getting here.
 
2014-03-19 02:03:36 PM  
Phone Numbers and Dick Pics?
 
2014-03-19 02:04:34 PM  
She seems like a pleasant person.

That being said, who gives a fark whether or not other people choose to have children? I don't give a crap if you don't want kids, and I don't need you sneering at me and calling me a "breeder" because I chose to have a family. Maybe we should all just concentrate a little more on our own lives and stop trying to tell everyone else how to live theirs.
 
2014-03-19 02:04:45 PM  

Utter Genius: Except she didn't simply state she "doesn't want to have children". She wrote a deliberately-provocative article describing children as time-consuming monsters, then went into damsel-in-distress mode the moment the people she provoked fired invective back at her.

In other words she's a click-baiting troll.


I hate to piss from a great height upon the new  Library of Alexandria, but isn't "stir up sh*t, sell ads by the hit count, watch people furiously revile your 'position' from behind their ISP" pretty most of the internet that isn't naked people and spam?  I mean, if anybody with an IQ larger than their shoe size met any of the people cranking out this twaddle IRL, they'd lend then all of the credibility of a raccoon who found a typewriter.  And should.  It's not just the anonymity, it's the pissant authority poses that we eat with a fork and shovel.
 
2014-03-19 02:04:53 PM  

Random Internet Persona: Cerebral Ballsy: "You would make a great mother" is the one I always get.

No, I don't think so. I would be frazzled. I seem to be great with kids because I get to go home and recharge in between visits.

That or the other variation. "But you're so good with kids!"

Yeah, I am good with kids.  I'm good with kids because I only have to spend a finite amount of time around them, and then they go away.


Exactly. As much as I've enjoyed spending time with the kids in my life, it was always nice to give them back to their parents at the end of the day. :)

Parenting is a 24/7 job. Some of us just aren't cut out to do it.
 
2014-03-19 02:05:15 PM  
 

Rapmaster2000: A hysterectomy costs about 10 grand with time off of work for recovery thrown in. I'd say you're out about $15k on average.

A vasectomy makes more sense because it's reversible, you don't have final control over whether the child is birthed, and you're fertile for the rest of your life.

Sure it isn't cheap but if you are serious about it then why not cough up the money. Would it not be easier and cheaper in the long run? Using her logic, if her birth control failed she would get an abortion, how much do those run? And what happens if she gets pregnant again?

An abortion runs about $300. Regardless, if the goal is to not have children then simply not getting pregnant would be logical. There are many ways to do that without that surgery. You've over thought the problem and chosen the biggest and most expensive solution when that isn't needed. Most women can avoid pregnancy without resorting to surgery.


Hysterectomies also wreak HAVOC on the woman's system, because it prematurely alters her hormonal balance. I asked about it many times, and was told "no competent doctor would perform a hysterectomy on any woman who did not have a serious health issue." A woman can get an IUD or the permanent Essure procedure, both which cost far less and do not wreck the woman's hormonal balance.

Essure is roughly the equivalent of a vasectomy.
A hysterectomy is roughly the equivalent of castration and removal of all testosterone from a man.
 
2014-03-19 02:05:29 PM  

TheExcalibur: Can't we just all agree anything with a heart beat has rights and go from there?

This pro-choice pro-life rhetoric/garbage just hides the fact that no one wants to sit down and define what constitutes "life"


Not when anti-choicers put up billboards that claim there's a heartbeat at 18 days, no.
 
2014-03-19 02:06:23 PM  

Nabb1: After reading that article, I think she is making the right call because she comes off as way too self-absorbed to be a parent.


If only some people could figure that out too before they have children, the world may work out a little better.
 
2014-03-19 02:06:48 PM  

TheExcalibur: Can't we just all agree anything with a heart beat legal birth certificate has rights and go from there?

This pro-choice pro-life rhetoric/garbage just hides the fact that no one wants to sit down and define what constitutes "life"


Okay, there you go. We cool?
 
2014-03-19 02:07:27 PM  

flynn80: Phone Numbers and Dick Pics?


No no, that only happens on TFD.
 
2014-03-19 02:07:40 PM  

reprobate1125: I think that recognizing that you're too self-absorbed to have children is a good thing.

I'm there.


Even better if your spouse agrees. My brother has always felt that he did not want to be a father and got a vasectomy after a decade of marriage
 
2014-03-19 02:07:46 PM  

Philibuster: My wife and I get constantly asked when we are going to have kids. She's 28 I'm 29, and we have absolutely no interest in having them. She works with kids daily, and I work with sick kids daily, that is more than enough for us.

I have heard everything on the bingo board at least twice...I don't understand what is so damn interesting about my reproductive status for uninvolved parties.


Shooting blanks, eh?
 
2014-03-19 02:08:07 PM  

Mitch Taylor's Bro: TheExcalibur: Can't we just all agree anything with a heart beat legal birth certificate has rights and go from there?

This pro-choice pro-life rhetoric/garbage just hides the fact that no one wants to sit down and define what constitutes "life"

Okay, there you go. We cool?


OH GOD! OUR PRESIDENT ISN'T HUMAN!
 
2014-03-19 02:08:07 PM  

Mitch Taylor's Bro: TheExcalibur: Can't we just all agree anything with a heart beat legal birth certificate has rights and go from there?

This pro-choice pro-life rhetoric/garbage just hides the fact that no one wants to sit down and define what constitutes "life"

Okay, there you go. We cool?


So if your heart stops, call a lawyer?   :  )
 
2014-03-19 02:09:14 PM  

the ha ha guy: GanjSmokr: "The official line of anti-choicers..."

I'm pro-choice, but saying "pro-lifers" are "anti-choicers" is about as stupid as saying "pro-choicers" are "anti-lifers".

Pro-choice = "It's your choice to terminate the pregnancy."
Pro-life = "Your pregnancy must be maintained at all costs."
Anti-choice = "You don't have a choice, you must have children or you're a failure as a human being."


Anti-life =

img.fark.net
 
2014-03-19 02:10:25 PM  

limeyfellow: Nabb1: After reading that article, I think she is making the right call because she comes off as way too self-absorbed to be a parent.

If only some people could figure that out too before they have children, the world may work out a little better.


Totally agree.
 
2014-03-19 02:10:34 PM  

Prank Call of Cthulhu: [blog.estately.com image 777x419]


I'd really like to get that for my car but I figure it would end up being keyed because of it.

/would also park in expectant mothers spots if I didn't care about getting keyed.
 
2014-03-19 02:12:07 PM  
For what it is worth mrs rapist always wanted kids. I always figured I would knock up someone one way or another. We are both 28 and have a 5 year old son. Her and I even split up for a couple years not long after my son was born.

back together and happy again. Even if we do live far apart. The 3 of us are spending a week in the dominican next month.

without our son we probably would have parted company never to be seen again. Having a child made us a family. Made us stronger. And really I havent had such a good time as when I am wrestling with the boy. Having a kid will change you. I was little more than a wildman till my little guy came along.

that all being said I can fully understand why some folk do not want kids. They are work and diapers suck. Keep in mind one day yours will need changing again to.
 
2014-03-19 02:12:10 PM  
A lot of the pressure to have kids is also of the religious "Be fruitful and multiply" variety. Every sperm is sacred! Every egg even more so, so get crackin'. Even though most Christians have pulled back from being "Quiverfull" types, it's probably still a majority opinion that you owe it to God to have at least a few kids.

Scientifically, it's just a natural part of life. Organisms procreate. Among something like rabbits, the population would balloon until checked by the exhaustion of resources, and then those that aren't predated die of starvation (and in some organisms, fertility decreases in times of limited resources). But maybe having the intelligence to not procreate is also a natural population check. We're certainly not endangered. At the moment.
 
2014-03-19 02:12:23 PM  
stupid phone ....

15 years into marriage his wife started in about adopting. Long story short, he's a dad now and he's a giid dad, but is definitely not into it. SIL is a great mom so I suppose it all evens out.
 
2014-03-19 02:13:53 PM  

Boo_Guy: would also park in expectant mothers spots if I didn't care about getting keyed.


I do this ALL the time. Seriously, they're just knocked up, not crippled; I don't think it'll kill them to walk a few extra feet.
 
2014-03-19 02:14:01 PM  

udhq: Meh, this is Amanda Marcotte, the author who all but accused a kid of rape for asking a celebrity to his prom over youtube.  Take her with a grain of salt.


That may well be. But if writing stuff on the Internet means she's self-absorbed, so is everyone here. img.fark.net
 
2014-03-19 02:14:04 PM  
Boo_Guy:

/would also park in expectant mothers spots if I didn't care about getting keyed.

Calm down, Denis Leary.

or

Calm down, Vincent Vega.
 
2014-03-19 02:14:57 PM  
Simply this: because I don't believe in being forced by law to take care of things that smell bad and poop themselves.
 
2014-03-19 02:16:36 PM  

Mitch Taylor's Bro: TheExcalibur: Can't we just all agree anything with a heart beat legal birth certificate has rights and go from there?

This pro-choice pro-life rhetoric/garbage just hides the fact that no one wants to sit down and define what constitutes "life"

Okay, there you go. We cool?


About as unlikely to fly as has a heartbeat.

Also, severe failure modes. Plenty of places in the world where birth certificates aren't a thing or are only intermitently a thing. Don't one to unperson those folks.

I propose rights beginning when your thinkmeats turn on.
 
2014-03-19 02:17:01 PM  

Unoriginal_Username: People shouldn't care who has kids or who doesn't. My only question for her is this. If you don't want kids why not get your tubes tied? And doctors shouldn't be able to ask why, just do it. Same for guys getting a vasectomy. The reasons don't matter. It's what they want.


Tubal ligation involves invasive surgery, and is much more dangerous and much more expensive than having an abortion, should your preferred form of birth control fail.

Vasectomy is a different story.  I realized long ago that I wasn't interested in procreating, so I had one.  I understand that there are lots of men who are afraid of getting one, but it really is no big deal.  Unfortunately, a vasectomy does not address the main issue: A woman's right to have control over her body.
 
2014-03-19 02:17:18 PM  

Philibuster: My wife and I get constantly asked when we are going to have kids. She's 28 I'm 29, and we have absolutely no interest in having them. She works with kids daily, and I work with sick kids daily, that is more than enough for us.

I have heard everything on the bingo board at least twice...I don't understand what is so damn interesting about my reproductive status for uninvolved parties.


Man, I hear you. I'm twice your age and my wife and I decided not to have kids when we were about your age. We were ragged on by parents for years. A lot of people don'r give a flying damn, but others care a lot. Why do they care? I know why: they know they made the wrong choice and they cannot stand that you made the right one. Being a parent is definitely not all it is cracked up to be and is something that one should do only if one really, really wants it bad. Many people don't really want it at all but cave to family and friends who use the Breeder Bingo platitudes on them,

My elder sister (who never gave me any crap about not having kids) used to gush over how great her kids were, how much she loved them, how glad she had them in her life, etc. It was tiresome to her all the time. But then when her kids were out of the house and off to college, she was visiting and.after a few stiff ones, she admitted that though she loves her children, if she had it to do over, she would not have had them. She said that she had given up too much and that she had always understood why I chose a childless life.
 
2014-03-19 02:17:43 PM  

Nabb1: She then took umbrage when some people took issue with her opinions (and some of those angry comments she highlighted were directed at her calling children "time-sucking monsters")


 No sane person with children would take umbrage at that description.
 
2014-03-19 02:17:45 PM  

Cletus C.: Philibuster: My wife and I get constantly asked when we are going to have kids. She's 28 I'm 29, and we have absolutely no interest in having them. She works with kids daily, and I work with sick kids daily, that is more than enough for us.

I have heard everything on the bingo board at least twice...I don't understand what is so damn interesting about my reproductive status for uninvolved parties.

Shooting blanks, eh?


Could be! I'd say that would be working my favor anyway.

NTTIAWWT
 
2014-03-19 02:17:47 PM  

TheExcalibur: Can't we just all agree anything with a heart beat has rights and go from there?

This pro-choice pro-life rhetoric/garbage just hides the fact that no one wants to sit down and define what constitutes "life"


Not that it has anything to do with the thread, but how about: "once it can survive outside of the womb on its own"?  Until then, it's a parasite.
 
2014-03-19 02:20:54 PM  

Prank Call of Cthulhu: [blog.estately.com image 777x419]


imgs.xkcd.com
 
2014-03-19 02:20:59 PM  

ginandbacon: The idea of blaming women for not having children when it is such a burden in this country is flat out misogyny. What about all the childless men? Are they monsters? Do we look at them and think awful things about them?


I think the major problem most had with this persons decisions was that despite saying she never wanted children, she would still rather kill an unborn child rather than get her tubes tied.

You don't want kids, cool, there's too many of us as it is, but don't spout that you're going to use Abortion to kill off any "oopsies" that occur simply because you don't want kids, but didn't bother to take care of the potential problem permanently, and expect the pro-lifers to not make hay over it.
 
2014-03-19 02:21:16 PM  

Elegy: Utter Genius: Except she didn't simply state she "doesn't want to have children". She wrote a deliberately-provocative article describing children as time-consuming monsters, then went into damsel-in-distress mode the moment the people she provoked fired invective back at her.

In other words she's a click-baiting troll.

Aaaaaaannnnddddddd we're done here.

Authoress reeks of self-absorbed douchebaggery.

What's the female equivalent of the fedora? Because that's definitely the vibe I'm getting here.


You know, everything doesn't deserve a response. The real issue here isn't this supposedly self-absorbed woman. The real story here is the little people who get ENRAGED and PROVOKED by someone expressing their opinion that children are monsters. HOW DARE SHE!!1!!!1!

What the fark does anyone care for? How is she being "provacative"? I don't believe she called anyone out by name. She's just posting her opinion for those who want to read it. Now, if she's self-absorbed, what do you call the person who goes to HER Twitter feed, sees an opinion that they disagree with and starts calling her all kinds of whores and lonely twats because they disagree?
 
2014-03-19 02:22:58 PM  

someonelse: Nabb1: She then took umbrage when some people took issue with her opinions (and some of those angry comments she highlighted were directed at her calling children "time-sucking monsters")

 No sane person with children would take umbrage at that description.


This.  Very much this.  My much-loved two-year-old is climbing on my back as I write this.
 
2014-03-19 02:23:02 PM  

JackieRabbit: Philibuster: My wife and I get constantly asked when we are going to have kids. She's 28 I'm 29, and we have absolutely no interest in having them. She works with kids daily, and I work with sick kids daily, that is more than enough for us.

I have heard everything on the bingo board at least twice...I don't understand what is so damn interesting about my reproductive status for uninvolved parties.

Man, I hear you. I'm twice your age and my wife and I decided not to have kids when we were about your age. We were ragged on by parents for years. A lot of people don'r give a flying damn, but others care a lot. Why do they care? I know why: they know they made the wrong choice and they cannot stand that you made the right one. Being a parent is definitely not all it is cracked up to be and is something that one should do only if one really, really wants it bad. Many people don't really want it at all but cave to family and friends who use the Breeder Bingo platitudes on them,

My elder sister (who never gave me any crap about not having kids) used to gush over how great her kids were, how much she loved them, how glad she had them in her life, etc. It was tiresome to her all the time. But then when her kids were out of the house and off to college, she was visiting and.after a few stiff ones, she admitted that though she loves her children, if she had it to do over, she would not have had them. She said that she had given up too much and that she had always understood why I chose a childless life.


We are lucky, my family honestly does not care about growing the tree. My elder brother and his wife feel the same, and both my mom and dad are content with us being happy. My wife and I have 2 nieces and nephews (1 each from my step sister and her half brother) that we are perfectly happy to spoil on holidays, then hand them back.
 
2014-03-19 02:23:58 PM  

Some 'Splainin' To Do: I really get tired of people insisting that me and my wife would be great parents. We bloody well know that we'd be terrible at it, so why put ourselves and some innocent kid through that gauntlet.


I get told I'd make a great mother because I am very good with the few very close friends I have.  Yes, but they're my friends.

Babies and kids flat-out annoy me. That would make me a horrible mother and I have known this pretty much since I was a kid myself and didn't even play baby dolls. I have about a 10-minute threshold with even the coolest kid before I've had enough.  So they follow up with "but it would be different if it was your own." WHY? I'd never be able to get away from it. I'm very noise sensitive, I hate the sound of a crying/screaming baby/kid, and YES, I am selfish. I like being in a band, seeing bands, randomly driving to Rhode Island because it seemed like a good idea, getting drunk when I feel like it, spending the money I do have on clothes and toys and books for myself and my boyfriends.... And I'm FINE with this.

Anyway, I'm 39. You'd think at some point, people would realize I'm a bit too old, FAR too immature (I have to place my mental age somewhere around late 20s), FAR from marrying anyone, and without the resources to live a life that made me happy AND support a kid.

Yet they keep pushing. And that's why people who decided to not have kids -- for whatever reason -- get pissed off. I don't walk around asking everyone with a kid why they had one, or why they had three, why does my choice matter so much to them?
 
2014-03-19 02:24:11 PM  
"In the past, friends who've become parents have told me that I'm selfish because I don't want to have kids and share my time, money, and freedom with offspring. I tell them that I may indeed be selfish, but it's equally narcissistic of them to look around and say, 'You know what this place needs? More of ME.'"
 -- Me

/this chick's still a miserable coont
 
2014-03-19 02:24:19 PM  
Ned Stark:

I propose rights beginning when your thinkmeats turn on.

search "pro rights sodahead" click on "Abortion: The third view."
 
2014-03-19 02:24:36 PM  

CanisNoir: ginandbacon: The idea of blaming women for not having children when it is such a burden in this country is flat out misogyny. What about all the childless men? Are they monsters? Do we look at them and think awful things about them?

I think the major problem most had with this persons decisions was that despite saying she never wanted children, she would still rather kill an unborn child rather than get her tubes tied.

You don't want kids, cool, there's too many of us as it is, but don't spout that you're going to use Abortion to kill off any "oopsies" that occur simply because you don't want kids, but didn't bother to take care of the potential problem permanently, and expect the pro-lifers to not make hay over it.



Who the fark are you or anyone to tell a woman what sort of birth control she HAS to use to be acceptable in your eyes? Again, who are the real self-absorbed people in this?
 
2014-03-19 02:25:02 PM  

DROxINxTHExWIND: What the fark does anyone care for? How is she being "provacative"? I don't believe she called anyone out by name. She's just posting her opinion for those who want to read it. Now, if she's self-absorbed, what do you call the person who goes to HER Twitter feed, sees an opinion that they disagree with and starts calling her all kinds of whores and lonely twats because they disagree?


They are also self-absorbed.
 
2014-03-19 02:25:54 PM  

GhettoWinter: When these same "pro-lifers" are for the death penalty I think 'anti-choice' is a more accurate term.


Not really, considering the death penalty involves someone who chose to act in such a way that the punishment for their crime is the death penalty, where as the unborn child is innocent of any wrong doing and does not deserve death.

If you can't see the difference, well, maybe you're not looking hard enough.
 
2014-03-19 02:26:10 PM  

Rapmaster2000: miscreant: Rapmaster2000: A hysterectomy costs about 10 grand with time off of work for recovery thrown in. I'd say you're out about $15k on average.

A tubal ligation is not a hysterectomy.

Look, pal, I have a GED in medicine so I know what I"m talking about.  The name is Dr. Rapmaster2000:  GED.

I didn't drop out of medical school and then take an equivalency test to go around being called just Rapmaster2000.

/is not an expert on women's health


But is a Master of Rap.
 
2014-03-19 02:26:11 PM  

DROxINxTHExWIND: CanisNoir: ginandbacon: The idea of blaming women for not having children when it is such a burden in this country is flat out misogyny. What about all the childless men? Are they monsters? Do we look at them and think awful things about them?

I think the major problem most had with this persons decisions was that despite saying she never wanted children, she would still rather kill an unborn child rather than get her tubes tied.

You don't want kids, cool, there's too many of us as it is, but don't spout that you're going to use Abortion to kill off any "oopsies" that occur simply because you don't want kids, but didn't bother to take care of the potential problem permanently, and expect the pro-lifers to not make hay over it.


Who the fark are you or anyone to tell a woman what sort of birth control she HAS to use to be acceptable in your eyes? Again, who are the real self-absorbed people in this?


I see you've never engaged with Canis before. Enjoy!
 
2014-03-19 02:28:13 PM  

ginandbacon: This conversation isn't about children. It's about women and how free or not they are. Having children is a leading cause of poverty in this country for women. We do not have free preschools run by the government. We do not offer paid maternity leave. Pregnancy is very hard on women physically and is actually more dangerous than abortions. And children are insanely expensive.


Uhm, might point this out. Without children, we won't have a healthy society of smart people. Idiocracy in action.

As far as "free" preschool, A kid taught right doesn't need preschool, plus it takes away from them BEING a kid (heard instances of preschool starting as soon as they're out of diapers). Paid/maternity leave? Depends on where you work (my place offers 6-12 months paid maternity leave, and some places even offer 6 months for the man if he chooses to go with his wife). There is also FMLA to back you up (a federal program).
 
2014-03-19 02:28:56 PM  

Utter Genius: Except she didn't simply state she "doesn't want to have children". She wrote a deliberately-provocative article describing children as time-consuming monsters, then went into damsel-in-distress mode the moment the people she provoked fired invective back at her.

In other words she's a click-baiting troll.


Maybe she's just cranky because it's her time of the month.

\she may not be a very good writer, but she is correct
\\children are time-(and money-) consuming monsters
 
2014-03-19 02:29:20 PM  

sigdiamond2000: reprobate1125: I think that recognizing that you're too self-absorbed to have children is a good thing.

I do too, but for some people, there is no good reason not to have children. A lot of people can't even process the concept of not wanting children, so they assume something is wrong with people who don't.


And I agree with both of you.  Whether or not one does, or does not, have children is no one's business but that person's.  And people who have a problem with that are, well, the ones with the problem.
 
2014-03-19 02:30:05 PM  

El Freak: Philibuster: My wife and I get constantly asked when we are going to have kids. She's 28 I'm 29, and we have absolutely no interest in having them. She works with kids daily, and I work with sick kids daily, that is more than enough for us.

I have heard everything on the bingo board at least twice...I don't understand what is so damn interesting about my reproductive status for uninvolved parties.

It's my theory that the people that run down those who do not wish to have children are usually people who've had children, but cannot bring themselves to admit that they wish they hadn't. I'm 38,like being alone,  have never liked children and I know that if I ever did have one I would resent it and would want nothing at all to do with it. Yes, I'm probably an asshole, but at least I have the self awareness enough to know that I have absolutely no business being responsible for a child. That sure shuts 'em up when people start telling me how much I'm going to regret not having kids though.


I think your theory is often correct. However, I also know a few very vocal "anti-kids" types who are obviously talking that way to either rationalize not having kids or not being able to sustain a relationship in order to have kids. I haven't seen this with guys much but have had two encounters with drunk and crying "baby haters" who were upset over not having kids. The next day they were back to their sober selves.

We humans do a lot of things to make ourselves feel better. Living in regret is very cruel to do to oneself... Kids or no kids.
 
2014-03-19 02:30:23 PM  

DArque Bishop: the ha ha guy: GanjSmokr: "The official line of anti-choicers..."

I'm pro-choice, but saying "pro-lifers" are "anti-choicers" is about as stupid as saying "pro-choicers" are "anti-lifers".

Pro-choice = "It's your choice to terminate the pregnancy."
Pro-life = "Your pregnancy must be maintained at all costs."
Anti-choice = "You don't have a choice, you must have children or you're a failure as a human being."

Anti-life =

[img.fark.net image 400x300]


Both terms are propaganda. We should just call them pro-aboriton and and anti-abortion.
 
2014-03-19 02:30:25 PM  

vartian: Nabb1: After reading that article, I think she is making the right call because she comes off as way too self-absorbed to be a parent.

Which is exactly why I am never going to have kids. I wish more people would be honest with themselves about parenthood.


application.denofgeek.com

Agrees.
 
2014-03-19 02:30:31 PM  

Prank Call of Cthulhu: Boo_Guy: would also park in expectant mothers spots if I didn't care about getting keyed.

I do this ALL the time. Seriously, they're just knocked up, not crippled; I don't think it'll kill them to walk a few extra feet.


Ohhhhh fark you.
 
2014-03-19 02:30:35 PM  

MrSteve007: Prank Call of Cthulhu: [blog.estately.com image 777x419]

[imgs.xkcd.com image 740x297]


The real version of this is available to buy here;
http://www.familystickers.com/money-stickers.html#wmiBox

/not my site, no affiliation,  etcetera..
 
2014-03-19 02:31:13 PM  
Clearly this is survival of the fittest at work.

-Woman tries to do something besides be in the kitchen, pumping out babies, etc, etc.
-Woman decides children are "time sucking little monsters"
-Woman has no desire to reproduce, thus ensuring her feminist genes do not get passed on.

I see no problem here.
 
2014-03-19 02:32:16 PM  

CanisNoir: I think the major problem most had with this persons decisions was that despite saying she never wanted children, she would still rather kill an unborn child rather than get her tubes tied.


I don't see why she should be forced to undergo a risky and invasive operation to satisfy someone else's moral hangups.
 
2014-03-19 02:32:29 PM  

mod3072: She seems like a pleasant person.

That being said, who gives a fark whether or not other people choose to have children? I don't give a crap if you don't want kids, and I don't need you sneering at me and calling me a "breeder" because I chose to have a family. Maybe we should all just concentrate a little more on our own lives and stop trying to tell everyone else how to live theirs.


But, but...how can you validate your choices if not by insisting that others choose the same way?
 
2014-03-19 02:33:40 PM  

serpent_sky: Yet they keep pushing. And that's why people who decided to not have kids -- for whatever reason -- get pissed off. I don't walk around asking everyone with a kid why they had one, or why they had three, why does my choice matter so much to them?


Maybe we should try this and then they'll start to leave us alone.

/kidding
//they'll never leave us alone
 
2014-03-19 02:33:42 PM  
img.fark.net

racist
 
2014-03-19 02:35:34 PM  
Breeders, gonna breed and try to make you pay for their crotch spoils.
 
2014-03-19 02:36:52 PM  

Strategeryz0r: Clearly this is survival of the fittest at work.

-Woman tries to do something besides be in the kitchen, pumping out babies, etc, etc.
-Woman decides children are "time sucking little monsters"
-Woman has no desire to reproduce, thus ensuring her feminist genes do not get passed on.

I see no problem here.



And unfortunately, the guy who thinks that feminism is hereditary has a sack full of semen and a hairpin trigger.

/Don't pass that bad info on to your kids
 
2014-03-19 02:37:33 PM  

albatros183: Breeders, gonna breed and try to make you pay for their crotch spoils.


All part of living in civilization. Cough up.
 
2014-03-19 02:37:35 PM  

serpent_sky: Hysterectomies also wreak HAVOC on the woman's system, because it prematurely alters her hormonal balance. I asked about it many times, and was told "no competent doctor would perform a hysterectomy on any woman who did not have a serious health issue."


Of course they wouldn't. Why would you get a hysterectomy for birth control?! That's the equivalent of a man getting castrated instead of a vasectomy. If you get a hysterectomy, you need to take drugs to make up for all the hormones your body is no longer producing. What you should have asked for is a tubal ligation, which is the equivalent of a vasectomy in men. Snipping the fallopian tubes so that the sperm and eggs can never meet. In that case, you still have your period and all your lady bits so you still produce hormones.

You'll still have trouble finding a doctor to perform the procedure if you're under 30, but it can be done

/wife got her tubes tied in her 20s
 
2014-03-19 02:38:28 PM  
 Prank Call of Cthulhu: Boo_Guy: would also park in expectant mothers spots if I didn't care about getting keyed.

I do this ALL the time. Seriously, they're just knocked up, not crippled; I don't think it'll kill them to walk a few extra feet.



It's a hobby of mine as well, especially at the store where they are closer to the store than the handicapped spaces. fark that noise.
 
2014-03-19 02:40:06 PM  

Pincy: bunner: "I don't want to have babies!"

"That works for me."


"But I totally want a stiff one in my girl place, like, a LOT!"


"Good luck to you."


Next attention whore, please.


And some tea.

I think we can all agree that women who like sex are morally reprehensible.


Just the ones who broadcast it ironically. If she doesn't want children, good. Fewer chances of another entitled, whiny brat out there. The first time she tells a parent how they should treat their kid the backlash will be amazing.
 
2014-03-19 02:40:46 PM  

DROxINxTHExWIND: Strategeryz0r: Clearly this is survival of the fittest at work.

-Woman tries to do something besides be in the kitchen, pumping out babies, etc, etc.
-Woman decides children are "time sucking little monsters"
-Woman has no desire to reproduce, thus ensuring her feminist genes do not get passed on.

I see no problem here.


And unfortunately, the guy who thinks that feminism is hereditary has a sack full of semen and a hairpin trigger.

/Don't pass that bad info on to your kids


I thought he was being facetious. But either way, I think we all realize the only thing he'll likely have the opportunity to impregnate is a sock.
 
2014-03-19 02:41:31 PM  

Pincy: Unoriginal_Username: Rapmaster2000: Unoriginal_Username: People shouldn't care who has kids or who doesn't. My only question for her is this. If you don't want kids why not get your tubes tied? And doctors shouldn't be able to ask why, just do it. Same for guys getting a vasectomy. The reasons don't matter. It's what they want.

A hysterectomy costs about 10 grand with time off of work for recovery thrown in.  I'd say you're out about $15k on average.

A vasectomy makes more sense because it's reversible, you don't have final control over whether the child is birthed, and you're fertile for the rest of your life.

Sure it isn't cheap but if you are serious about it then why not cough up the money. Would it not be easier and cheaper in the long run? Using her logic, if her birth control failed she would get an abortion, how much do those run? And what happens if she gets pregnant again?

In my perfect world, tubals and vascetomies would be free.  Pro-lifers should support this as well because it would help reduce the number of abortions.


Oh, I agree. They should be done at no cost.  You don't want kids? Great, get fixed. No issue.  Simplest decision ever.

Plus, if those that get it done decide down the road that they want kids, adopt.
 
2014-03-19 02:42:02 PM  

ERNesbitt: Pincy: bunner: "I don't want to have babies!"

"That works for me."


"But I totally want a stiff one in my girl place, like, a LOT!"


"Good luck to you."


Next attention whore, please.


And some tea.

I think we can all agree that women who like sex are morally reprehensible.

Just the ones who broadcast it ironically. If she doesn't want children, good. Fewer chances of another entitled, whiny brat out there. The first time she tells a parent how they should treat their kid the backlash will be amazing.


I need that explained.
 
2014-03-19 02:42:08 PM  

miscreant: Of course they wouldn't. Why would you get a hysterectomy for birth control?! That's the equivalent of a man getting castrated instead of a vasectomy. If you get a hysterectomy, you need to take drugs to make up for all the hormones your body is no longer producing. What you should have asked for is a tubal ligation, which is the equivalent of a vasectomy in men. Snipping the fallopian tubes so that the sperm and eggs can never meet. In that case, you still have your period and all your lady bits so you still produce hormones.

You'll still have trouble finding a doctor to perform the procedure if you're under 30, but it can be done

/wife got her tubes tied in her 20s


A tubal is still a biatch to get at any age - Essure, too. 

I was actually referring to the person who said the author should get a hysterectomy without realizing that puts a woman into premature menopause and completely wrecks her hormonal balance.  Essure is far easier and less invasive than a tubal ligation. Still not easy to get on the off chance that you'll "change your mind."  Some doctors will do it, but the vast majority won't.

I actually stick with the pill because the one I take seems to help with my moods in a positive way, and I'll take that side effect any day.
 
2014-03-19 02:42:32 PM  
I hate agreeing with Amanda Marcotte, because she's the kind of person who thinks all kids are money-sucking monsters until it's her child. I bet you dollars to donuts if she ever changes her mind or gets pregnant by accident, that's precisely what will happen.

/Seriously if you don't want kids, don't have them.
//It's nobody's business.
///And it being nobody's business goes both ways.
 
2014-03-19 02:42:41 PM  

DROxINxTHExWIND: Who the fark are you or anyone to tell a woman what sort of birth control she HAS to use to be acceptable in your eyes? Again, who are the real self-absorbed people in this?


Well, considering I'm not one of the people who responded, this isn't about *me* but rather about what the responses were geared towards. Who are they to make that call? Members of society, and considering the question is, "are we killing someone with abortion or are we not" and that doesn't seem to be answered, then as members of society, they have a duty to weigh in on debates such as this.

Also, nobody is telling her what type of birth control she should use, just that Abortion is *not* and never has been a suitable form of Birth Control. (Because right around half the country feels it's killing another human being).
 
2014-03-19 02:43:10 PM  

bunner: I hate to piss from a great height upon the new  Library of Alexandria, but isn't "stir up sh*t, sell ads by the hit count, watch people furiously revile your 'position' from behind their ISP" pretty most of the internet that isn't naked people and spam?


... and cats.
 
2014-03-19 02:44:56 PM  

busy chillin': Ned Stark:

I propose rights beginning when your thinkmeats turn on.

search "pro rights sodahead" click on "Abortion: The third view."


Already cannibalized it for parts to build my outlook when I bailed on the pro-life movement. Thanks, though!
 
2014-03-19 02:45:37 PM  

CanisNoir: (Because right around half the country feels it's killing another human being).


Until it's their unwanted pregnancy in question. Amazing how that works.
 
2014-03-19 02:46:10 PM  

CanisNoir: DROxINxTHExWIND: Who the fark are you or anyone to tell a woman what sort of birth control she HAS to use to be acceptable in your eyes? Again, who are the real self-absorbed people in this?

Well, considering I'm not one of the people who responded, this isn't about *me* but rather about what the responses were geared towards. Who are they to make that call? Members of society, and considering the question is, "are we killing someone with abortion or are we not" and that doesn't seem to be answered, then as members of society, they have a duty to weigh in on debates such as this.

Also, nobody is telling her what type of birth control she should use, just that Abortion is *not* and never has been a suitable form of Birth Control. (Because right around half the country feels it's killing another human being).


Argumentum ad populum. Really? Because some people are squicked out by it and their church says no, then it's not birth control?

BULL. SH*T.
 
2014-03-19 02:46:36 PM  
Pincy:I think we can all agree that women who like sex are morally reprehensible. 

No, it's just largely inconsequential as to the decisions that THEY make in pursuit of it.  Isn't it?  Your projector is broken and your straw mans i on fire.
 
2014-03-19 02:47:28 PM  

Ned Stark: busy chillin': Ned Stark:

I propose rights beginning when your thinkmeats turn on.

search "pro rights sodahead" click on "Abortion: The third view."

Already cannibalized it for parts to build my outlook when I bailed on the pro-life movement. Thanks, though!


Not sure if I can call out another farker, but it was written by another farker. I was impressed with it as well.
 
2014-03-19 02:47:30 PM  
unfortunately, the demographic that so often chooses not to have kids (secure incomes, well educated, good at self-evaluation and sound decision making) would ideally make the best parents.
 
2014-03-19 02:48:25 PM  

ERNesbitt: bunner: I hate to piss from a great height upon the new  Library of Alexandria, but isn't "stir up sh*t, sell ads by the hit count, watch people furiously revile your 'position' from behind their ISP" pretty most of the internet that isn't naked people and spam?

... and cats.


Thank Jeebus for the kittehs, tr0o.
 
2014-03-19 02:48:26 PM  

busy chillin': Mitch Taylor's Bro: TheExcalibur: Can't we just all agree anything with a heart beat legal birth certificate has rights and go from there?

This pro-choice pro-life rhetoric/garbage just hides the fact that no one wants to sit down and define what constitutes "life"

Okay, there you go. We cool?

OH GOD! OUR PRESIDENT ISN'T HUMAN!


:-)
 
2014-03-19 02:49:00 PM  

DROxINxTHExWIND: You know, everything doesn't deserve a response. The real issue here isn't this supposedly self-absorbed woman. The real story here is the little people who get ENRAGED and PROVOKED by someone expressing their opinion that children are monsters. HOW DARE SHE!!1!!!1!


Then I would say she achieved her goal since she wrote an article and a response seemingly designed to provoke the outrage of the "anti-choicers" she so obviously despised.

What the fark does anyone care for?
I don't, particularly. I read her response and the criticism directed against her. I read her original post. I think she's a self I loved attention whore trolling pro-lifers for click bait and to make herself feel important. You should know what that feels like - you're fark's elder statesman of trolling, after all.

In a more general sense, some people care about the environment, or animal welfare, or babies - all out of proportion to the actual impact said subject has on their lives. Film at 11 with news a hot Ric Romero.

How is she being "provacative"?
"Anti-choicers," "little monsters," etc. all while directly (attempting) to savage the people she doesn't like with what she thinks is scalding criticism.

Now, if she's self-absorbed, what do you call the person who goes to HER Twitter feed, sees an opinion that they disagree with and starts calling her all kinds of whores and lonely twats because they disagree?

Well, one, I scanned through those "horrible" twitter posts by the anti-choicers she posted, and I didn't see one person call her a whore. In fairness, I might have missed it because I don't rally care enough to go back.

For two, this is on her PUBLIC blog and her PUBLIC twitter feed. If she doesn't want social interaction, private your social media. The internet is the world's largest bathroom wall and billboard all rolled into one. Don't want commentary? Don't write on the wall where everyone can see it.

By your own logic, if I take a billboard and write "n-bombs are responsible for the decline of America," you don't get to comment on it. It's MY billboard. What are you reading it for?
 
2014-03-19 02:49:24 PM  
i.imgur.com

i.imgur.com
 
2014-03-19 02:49:33 PM  

DROxINxTHExWIND: Strategeryz0r: Clearly this is survival of the fittest at work.

-Woman tries to do something besides be in the kitchen, pumping out babies, etc, etc.
-Woman decides children are "time sucking little monsters"
-Woman has no desire to reproduce, thus ensuring her feminist genes do not get passed on.

I see no problem here.


And unfortunately, the guy who thinks that feminism is hereditary has a sack full of semen and a hairpin trigger.

/Don't pass that bad info on to your kids


Didn't take long to get a nibble on that one. hahahahaa.
 
2014-03-19 02:49:44 PM  

bunner: Mitch Taylor's Bro: TheExcalibur: Can't we just all agree anything with a heart beat legal birth certificate has rights and go from there?

This pro-choice pro-life rhetoric/garbage just hides the fact that no one wants to sit down and define what constitutes "life"

Okay, there you go. We cool?

So if your heart stops, call a lawyer?   :  )


Naw, my legal birth certificate would still grant me rights if my heart stops. (Or did you mean to respond to TheExcaliber?)
 
2014-03-19 02:50:14 PM  

CanisNoir: Also, nobody is telling her what type of birth control she should use, just that Abortion is *not* and never has been a suitable form of Birth Control. (Because right around half the country feels it's killing another human being).


Why does that "right around half" get to say what the rest of us should do if we happen to get pregnant? Those of us who do not think a fetus is killing a human being?
 
2014-03-19 02:50:16 PM  

People_are_Idiots: ginandbacon: This conversation isn't about children. It's about women and how free or not they are. Having children is a leading cause of poverty in this country for women. We do not have free preschools run by the government. We do not offer paid maternity leave. Pregnancy is very hard on women physically and is actually more dangerous than abortions. And children are insanely expensive.

Uhm, might point this out. Without children, we won't have a healthy society of smart people. Idiocracy in action.

As far as "free" preschool, A kid taught right doesn't need preschool, plus it takes away from them BEING a kid (heard instances of preschool starting as soon as they're out of diapers). Paid/maternity leave? Depends on where you work (my place offers 6-12 months paid maternity leave, and some places even offer 6 months for the man if he chooses to go with his wife). There is also FMLA to back you up (a federal program).


Sp women should risk poverty, their health, and often their sanity to repopulate the US? Are you insane? We are not broodmares.

Preschools exists to give parents a way to juggle young children and other responsibilities. And kids do just fine in them. Or are American children more delicate than they are in basically every other developed nation?

Paid maternity leave is very rare in the US. Only 12% of workers get paid family leave.

"in the 1990s, the US had the sixth-highest female labor force participation rate among the 22 nations tracked by the OECD. By 2010, the US ranked 17th." (I think we're actually 18th now.) Link.

If you want women to have more babies, make it easier for them. It really is that simple.
 
2014-03-19 02:50:51 PM  

LemSkroob: unfortunately, the demographic that so often chooses not to have kids (secure incomes, well educated, good at self-evaluation and sound decision making) would ideally make the best parents.


You should know by now that Fark is a good case study in why smart people with good incomes should opt out from reproducing.
 
2014-03-19 02:52:19 PM  

Prank Call of Cthulhu: "Oh, we can't have kids."


The doctor told my wife it would be "very difficult" for her to conceive.  she doesn't want kids, but she also doesn't like being told she can't do something.  so she was upset about this.

When we try to explain this to people we get "Maybe the doctor is wrong", "you should get a second opinion", "that's what the doctor told X and how she has 4 kids", "you can always adopt", etc...

I know I'd be a shiatty parent and as someone up thread mentioned, why would I want to put a child through that just to satisfy the people who want us to have a baby they can fawn over?
 
2014-03-19 02:54:12 PM  

Ned Stark: Mitch Taylor's Bro: TheExcalibur: Can't we just all agree anything with a heart beat legal birth certificate has rights and go from there?

This pro-choice pro-life rhetoric/garbage just hides the fact that no one wants to sit down and define what constitutes "life"

Okay, there you go. We cool?

About as unlikely to fly as has a heartbeat.

Also, severe failure modes. Plenty of places in the world where birth certificates aren't a thing or are only intermitently a thing. Don't one to unperson those folks.

I propose rights beginning when your thinkmeats turn on.


So...26? :-)
 
2014-03-19 02:54:45 PM  
Pro lifers aren't so much "pro support life" as "pro, hey, give the kid a shot at the craps table".  Pro choicers aren't so much "pro choice" and "anti-inconvenience".  And we all mount our white horses and climb into our ivory towers and pretend tis nay thus.  And the we have a war or two and the rich people harvest all the money we brought in the door, again, and we forget about those cute little inconvenient babies for a bit.  Seriously, you don't even have to think anymore.  Just wait for any given button to be pressed, open the envelope with that issue's firm and unimpeachable response, read it, put it back, wait for new button.  I don't think I could find two people in a 10 mile radius that give a william or nilliam f*ck about anything that doesn't happen in their living room.
 
2014-03-19 02:55:15 PM  

Strategeryz0r: DROxINxTHExWIND: Strategeryz0r: Clearly this is survival of the fittest at work.

-Woman tries to do something besides be in the kitchen, pumping out babies, etc, etc.
-Woman decides children are "time sucking little monsters"
-Woman has no desire to reproduce, thus ensuring her feminist genes do not get passed on.

I see no problem here.


And unfortunately, the guy who thinks that feminism is hereditary has a sack full of semen and a hairpin trigger.

/Don't pass that bad info on to your kids

Didn't take long to get a nibble on that one. hahahahaa.



I'd actually have more respect for you if you believed that feminism is hereditary and that pickle juice can stop unwanted pregnancies.

/ > trolls
 
2014-03-19 02:55:43 PM  

People_are_Idiots: hm, might point this out. Without children, we won't have a healthy society of smart people. Idiocracy in action.


Please explain to me why this factors into a woman's choice to have or not have kids?  Not one person in here has said "no women should have children".

Quite honestly, your statement makes me a little angry.  Like you're implying that all women must have children for the good of the country or something.

Now, I'll hold off on my opinion of your statement until I get clarification.  But it still raises the hackles.
 
2014-03-19 02:55:55 PM  

udhq: I don't see why she should be forced to undergo a risky and invasive operation to satisfy someone else's moral hangups.


Umm, not wanting someone to murder another human being as a form of "birth control" isn't exactly a moral hang up so much as just common decency.

And she's not being "forced" to do anything, she's being heckled for admitting she'd prefer to murder an innocent child for any misjudgements she might have over pursuing a more long term solution that would eliminate any and all "misjudgements". In other words, she's getting what she deserves.
 
2014-03-19 02:56:10 PM  

MutantMotherMouse: reprobate1125: I think that recognizing that you're too self-absorbed to have children is a good thing.

I'm there.

Even better if your spouse agrees. My brother has always felt that he did not want to be a father and got a vasectomy after a decade of marriage


We were married in our 30s and that we spent a lot of time discussing it.  She has an IUD because of it.
 
2014-03-19 02:58:07 PM  

serpent_sky: CanisNoir: Also, nobody is telling her what type of birth control she should use, just that Abortion is *not* and never has been a suitable form of Birth Control. (Because right around half the country feels it's killing another human being).

Why does that "right around half" get to say what the rest of us should do if we happen to get pregnant? Those of us who do not think a fetus is killing a human being?


I don't believe in property but if I started carrying an e z boy out of the furniture store I bet you wouldn't have a problem with it when a bunch of cops beat my ass to stop me.
 
2014-03-19 02:58:48 PM  

Satan's Bunny Slippers: People_are_Idiots: hm, might point this out. Without children, we won't have a healthy society of smart people. Idiocracy in action.

Please explain to me why this factors into a woman's choice to have or not have kids?  Not one person in here has said "no women should have children".

Quite honestly, your statement makes me a little angry.  Like you're implying that all women must have children for the good of the country or something.

Now, I'll hold off on my opinion of your statement until I get clarification.  But it still raises the hackles.


You're nicer than I am.
 
2014-03-19 02:59:30 PM  

Satan's Bunny Slippers: Quite honestly, your statement makes me a little angry. Like you're implying that all women must have children for the good of the country or something.


I think you are spot on here.  I've gotten this line before too, "But what if the baby you never plan on having was going to be the next Einstein?"  They pretend like it's a compliment ("You are good enough to create the next Einstein") but really the implication is that you should be having kids for the good of the country/world/universe and if you don't then you are selfish.
 
2014-03-19 02:59:36 PM  
I only skimmed the first few comments that she is whining about.  But I saw mostly comments criticizing her choice of words describing children as "time sucking monsters", not her personal life choices.  In other words people would like this author to stop attacking everyone else's choices.   This author seems to have a very bad case of "stop liking what I don't like."
 
2014-03-19 03:01:28 PM  

Ned Stark: I don't believe in property but if I started carrying an e z boy out of the furniture store I bet you wouldn't have a problem with it when a bunch of cops beat my ass to stop me.


Actually, I would have a problem with cops beating your ass for stealing something. I don't much like cops overreacting to a situation.

Further, we KNOW property exists. It's a fact. It's coded into the law that you cannot go into the furniture store and walk out with a chair.

We do not KNOW when life starts - it varies by theory. However, it is coded into the law that abortion is a legal medical procedure a woman can obtain if she so wishes - even validated by the Supreme Court.

As such, your analogy fails on multiple levels.
 
2014-03-19 03:01:39 PM  

genner: DArque Bishop: the ha ha guy: GanjSmokr: "The official line of anti-choicers..."

I'm pro-choice, but saying "pro-lifers" are "anti-choicers" is about as stupid as saying "pro-choicers" are "anti-lifers".

Pro-choice = "It's your choice to terminate the pregnancy."
Pro-life = "Your pregnancy must be maintained at all costs."
Anti-choice = "You don't have a choice, you must have children or you're a failure as a human being."

Anti-life =

[img.fark.net image 400x300]

Both terms are propaganda. We should just call them pro-aboriton and and anti-abortion.


I'm down wit dat.
 
2014-03-19 03:01:49 PM  

ginandbacon: Satan's Bunny Slippers: People_are_Idiots: hm, might point this out. Without children, we won't have a healthy society of smart people. Idiocracy in action.

Please explain to me why this factors into a woman's choice to have or not have kids?  Not one person in here has said "no women should have children".

Quite honestly, your statement makes me a little angry.  Like you're implying that all women must have children for the good of the country or something.

Now, I'll hold off on my opinion of your statement until I get clarification.  But it still raises the hackles.

You're nicer than I am.


I thought I'd give them a chance.  I'm not really nicer than you.  :)
 
2014-03-19 03:03:31 PM  

verbaltoxin: Argumentum ad populum. Really? Because some people are squicked out by it and their church says no, then it's not birth control?


No, it's not birth control because even the pro-choice side realizes that trying to claim abortion as birth control is stupid and would quickly lose them any moral high ground they had.
 
2014-03-19 03:05:23 PM  

People_are_Idiots: Uhm, might point this out. Without children, we won't have a healthy society of smart people. Idiocracy in action.


As someone who *really* doesn't want children, this old chestnut is tiresome and ineffective. I have, what, 30 years left at most... after that, I couldn't care less what happens to society.

I do suspect, though, that "smart people" are going to be valued less and less over time anyway. That's one of many reasons why I don't want children -- I would feel guilty about leaving them with a future that I don't have faith in.
 
2014-03-19 03:05:23 PM  

Satan's Bunny Slippers: ginandbacon: Satan's Bunny Slippers: People_are_Idiots: hm, might point this out. Without children, we won't have a healthy society of smart people. Idiocracy in action.

Please explain to me why this factors into a woman's choice to have or not have kids?  Not one person in here has said "no women should have children".

Quite honestly, your statement makes me a little angry.  Like you're implying that all women must have children for the good of the country or something.

Now, I'll hold off on my opinion of your statement until I get clarification.  But it still raises the hackles.

You're nicer than I am.

I thought I'd give them a chance.  I'm not really nicer than you.  :)


Well you type nicer than I do :)

And now you're a nice cheery green.
 
2014-03-19 03:07:33 PM  

Pincy: Satan's Bunny Slippers: Quite honestly, your statement makes me a little angry. Like you're implying that all women must have children for the good of the country or something.

I think you are spot on here.  I've gotten this line before too, "But what if the baby you never plan on having was going to be the next Einstein?"  They pretend like it's a compliment ("You are good enough to create the next Einstein") but really the implication is that you should be having kids for the good of the country/world/universe and if you don't then you are selfish.


OH yes.....I'm thankfully past the age that I get comments anymore, but I spent 25+ years getting the whole gamut of the cranks.

But you'd be a GREAT MOM! (yeah, sure.....I like to get drunk on friday nights too)

How do you know you don't want kids if you never had one? (I've NEVER understood this one)

Aw...they're different when their your own! (sure they are...I can't send them back home with their parents when I get tired of them)

I just don't understand WHY you don't want kids! (no, no you don't and I'm not going to tell you)

But if you had kids, yours and ours could play together!  (like I want my brats hanging out with your brats?)

etc ad nauseum.....

I don't have kids.  I don't regret this.  Others have lovely families, great kids.  I have nothing against that.  but don't you DARE try to tell me I have to have kids "for the good of ANYTHING" because I will tell you to get farked.
 
2014-03-19 03:08:00 PM  

TheKingOfMexico: I have, what, 30 years left at most... after that, I couldn't care less what happens to society.



And that's why we all live in a septic tank Charlie Brown.  :  ) Nobody else does, either.
 
2014-03-19 03:08:35 PM  

reprobate1125: I'm definitely not trying to sound all self-righteous because my job sounds a lot better than I personally am, but I've dedicated my life to building orphanages and clinics around the world and that would be extremely difficult to do if I had kids. Notice that I didn't say impossibly, but I've chosen to (some would say sacrifice) by not having kids of my own be able to help a lot more kids.


You monster!
 
2014-03-19 03:08:35 PM  

serpent_sky: Ned Stark: I don't believe in property but if I started carrying an e z boy out of the furniture store I bet you wouldn't have a problem with it when a bunch of cops beat my ass to stop me.

Actually, I would have a problem with cops beating your ass for stealing something. I don't much like cops overreacting to a situation.

Further, we KNOW property exists. It's a fact. It's coded into the law that you cannot go into the furniture store and walk out with a chair.

We do not KNOW when life starts - it varies by theory. However, it is coded into the law that abortion is a legal medical procedure a woman can obtain if she so wishes - even validated by the Supreme Court.

As such, your analogy fails on multiple levels.


Overreacting? You underestimate my determination for cozy seating good sir!

Also, appealing to the status quo is not much of a point when arguing what the law should be. In a parallel universe where everything had gone the other way would you be pro-life cause the court sez so?
 
2014-03-19 03:09:54 PM  
if you don't have kids then you lose at evolution. But hey, if you'd rather the world be populated by bible thumpers then knock yourself out. Just don't complain when the world is populated by bible thumpers. I won't judge you for not having kids, but I will when you start whining.
 
2014-03-19 03:10:18 PM  

CanisNoir: Umm, not wanting someone to murder another human being as a form of "birth control" isn't exactly a moral hang up so much as just common decency.


That a fetus is a human being is your belief, and yours alone, and it is not supported by ANY science on the matter.  It is merely a point of dogma, and shouldn't be used as a pretext to strip the basic human rights from someone who does not accept it as such.

To believe so, you also must believe that a woman who chooses to have sex surrenders the very ownership of her body to the government for the gestational period.
 
2014-03-19 03:11:05 PM  
ginandbacon:

And now you're a nice cheery green.

Well thank you!  I have had you in a nice blue for a while, for "thoughtful and well thought out" posts.

(yes...I have a color coded system here.....*sigh*)
 
2014-03-19 03:14:39 PM  

MadMattressMack: if you don't have kids then you lose at evolution. But hey, if you'd rather the world be populated by bible thumpers then knock yourself out. Just don't complain when the world is populated by bible thumpers. I won't judge you for not having kids, but I will when you start whining.


You can't complain about the state of things if you don't have children? Fark yeah man. You run with that.
 
2014-03-19 03:15:09 PM  
At the risk of peeing in the petunias of the diverse and oft highly gymnastic and overwrought opinions on this lofty matter, uh, isn't it pretty much piss easy NOT to get knocked up if you don't want to?  I mean, I think we're past the coca cola douche and rosary stage for contraception.  Shouldn't this be a go to BEFORE one trundles off to get their very own abortion story?  And skip "but z0mg teh rape victims" rant.  This isn't about.  Plainly.
 
2014-03-19 03:16:37 PM  

Satan's Bunny Slippers: ginandbacon:

And now you're a nice cheery green.

Well thank you!  I have had you in a nice blue for a while, for "thoughtful and well thought out" posts.

(yes...I have a color coded system here.....*sigh*)


Aw! That's really generous of you. I'm bad at remembering to favorite people--I just forget to do it. But it is easier now with the little star up there.
 
2014-03-19 03:17:31 PM  

udhq: CanisNoir: Umm, not wanting someone to murder another human being as a form of "birth control" isn't exactly a moral hang up so much as just common decency.

That a fetus is a human being is your belief, and yours alone, and it is not supported by ANY science on the matter.  It is merely a point of dogma, and shouldn't be used as a pretext to strip the basic human rights from someone who does not accept it as such.

To believe so, you also must believe that a woman who chooses to have sex surrenders the very ownership of her body to the government for the gestational period.


I'd agree with you to a point. You can't have an abortion at 8 months and 29 days because you decided you don't want it. I'm against abortion of viable fetuses outside of health concerns for the mother and / or fetus.
 
2014-03-19 03:19:20 PM  

serpent_sky: Why does that "right around half" get to say what the rest of us should do if we happen to get pregnant? Those of us who do not think a fetus is killing a human being?


Because we have long established that the government *can* control what we do with our bodies, (see drug and suicide laws) and when it comes to decided laws, people having a "say" is how our Representative Republic works.
 
2014-03-19 03:19:43 PM  

Wasilla Hillbilly: MadMattressMack: if you don't have kids then you lose at evolution. But hey, if you'd rather the world be populated by bible thumpers then knock yourself out. Just don't complain when the world is populated by bible thumpers. I won't judge you for not having kids, but I will when you start whining.

You can't complain about the state of things if you don't have children? Fark yeah man. You run with that.


I didn't say you can't complain. I said I reserve the right to judge your position based on your actions.
 
2014-03-19 03:21:05 PM  

MadMattressMack: udhq: CanisNoir: Umm, not wanting someone to murder another human being as a form of "birth control" isn't exactly a moral hang up so much as just common decency.

That a fetus is a human being is your belief, and yours alone, and it is not supported by ANY science on the matter.  It is merely a point of dogma, and shouldn't be used as a pretext to strip the basic human rights from someone who does not accept it as such.

To believe so, you also must believe that a woman who chooses to have sex surrenders the very ownership of her body to the government for the gestational period.

I'd agree with you to a point. You can't have an abortion at 8 months and 29 days because you decided you don't want it. I'm against abortion of viable fetuses outside of health concerns for the mother and / or fetus.


Give me examples of women doing this.
 
2014-03-19 03:23:24 PM  

bunner: At the risk of peeing in the petunias of the diverse and oft highly gymnastic and overwrought opinions on this lofty matter, uh, isn't it pretty much piss easy NOT to get knocked up if you don't want to?  I mean, I think we're past the coca cola douche and rosary stage for contraception.  Shouldn't this be a go to BEFORE one trundles off to get their very own abortion story?  And skip "but z0mg teh rape victims" rant.  This isn't about.  Plainly.


Bun, you know this.  Even diligent use of birth control fails.  Condoms break.  Pills fail, conception occurs, IUDs shift, not everyone is good with Norplant (as in allergic, and some insurances don't cover it anyway). Some women don't want to use the pill due to cancer risks.

So if birth control fails, which IS what the article referenced...that if her birth control failed and she got pregnant, she would have no issue with an abortion, a woman should have a child she took active steps to prevent?  And don't walk down that tubal ligation road, because no 20 something that's sexually active is going to have a tubal so she doesn't conceive. Or should women be coerced into using a drug they don't want to to satisfy some pearl clutching anti abortionist?

So what should they do?
 
2014-03-19 03:23:44 PM  

Nabb1: After reading that article, I think she is making the right call because she comes off as way too self-absorbed to be a parent.


Then the species is being done a favour and third parties should be pleased.

Frankly, given the quality of the parenting I've seen in my life, I wish more people would emulate her choice. Then I wouldn't have to work so hard on this super-virus.
 
2014-03-19 03:25:59 PM  

MadMattressMack: udhq: CanisNoir: Umm, not wanting someone to murder another human being as a form of "birth control" isn't exactly a moral hang up so much as just common decency.

That a fetus is a human being is your belief, and yours alone, and it is not supported by ANY science on the matter.  It is merely a point of dogma, and shouldn't be used as a pretext to strip the basic human rights from someone who does not accept it as such.

To believe so, you also must believe that a woman who chooses to have sex surrenders the very ownership of her body to the government for the gestational period.

I'd agree with you to a point. You can't have an abortion at 8 months and 29 days because you decided you don't want it. I'm against abortion of viable fetuses outside of health concerns for the mother and / or fetus.


Abortions are not performed past the second trimester except in extreme medical cases.  So stop making up weird scenarios.
 
2014-03-19 03:26:07 PM  

ginandbacon: MadMattressMack: udhq: CanisNoir: Umm, not wanting someone to murder another human being as a form of "birth control" isn't exactly a moral hang up so much as just common decency.

That a fetus is a human being is your belief, and yours alone, and it is not supported by ANY science on the matter.  It is merely a point of dogma, and shouldn't be used as a pretext to strip the basic human rights from someone who does not accept it as such.

To believe so, you also must believe that a woman who chooses to have sex surrenders the very ownership of her body to the government for the gestational period.

I'd agree with you to a point. You can't have an abortion at 8 months and 29 days because you decided you don't want it. I'm against abortion of viable fetuses outside of health concerns for the mother and / or fetus.

Give me examples of women doing this.


I can't nor do I care to look up a case. But to believe it wouldn't happen is naive.
 
2014-03-19 03:27:21 PM  

udhq: To believe so, you also must believe that a woman who chooses to have sex surrenders the very ownership of her body to the government for the gestational period.


No, but I believe she is placing herself in that risk. Having unprotected sex drastically increases the odds one will get pregnant, don't like those odds, you know how to change the equation. We *should* be able to control our baser instincts no? So use some brains, think about the consequences of your actions and then act in a manner that decreases the odds of an unwanted outcome; really it's not that hard. If it means holding off sex for a day or so, I think you'll survive.
 
2014-03-19 03:27:26 PM  
I hate to do this to you all, but unfortunately someone has to tell you:

Self awareness that you are self absorbed, and be able to communicate it to breeders asking "how come?", proves the point of the breeders that there is something wrong with you.  Because, no matter how much you state it as a fact, I mean, listen to yourself: "I can't have children because I hate children", "I would not make a good dad/mom", "I am too self absorbed to give time to children", "I have too many activities helping other children for me to have my own", "I love children, but I also love that they leave eventually", "parenting is a 24/7 job and it is not for me", and my favorite "why should I be required by law to change someone else's dirty diaper".

It has been said that nobody has more love than the person who is willing to die for friends.  The root of this comment goes down to the issue of how much are you willing to give of yourself for somebody else without expecting anything in return.  If you love a woman/man, you must likely get a sexual orgasm, but with children you may not only not receive anything, but the added heartache and disappointment may come as well, even if you did everything "right" in your opinion.  What gets me is that there are so many people lately that find it OK not to give of themselves to someone else for the sake of just doing it.  Their definition of love is obviously different.  And that is what is wrong with them.

I find it interesting to ask why you don't have children not because I want to pressure you into having them.  I want to know if I need to avoid you (worst case) or how to deal with you appropriately.  Not all people who don't want to have children are assholes, some are truly beautiful that want to be accepted into any group and don't mind listening to your tantrum stories and looking at your facebook pictures.  But don't get all offended if you are being asked this questions.  First of all, you don't have to answer them if you don't feel like you can be friends with the person asking.  We ask because rather than make the assumption that there is something wrong with you, we want to hear it from you.  You can be your own miserable way all by yourself with or without partner/wife/husband/cats.  This applies specially at work, we may not all want to be friends, but we all have to get along.  You may be skeptic about the breeder motives, but not all of us ask because we are nosy.  I truly ask because you sparked my initial interest to become friends/lovers/sexual partner.  Your response will determine if there is a chance at any of that.

/has 3 kids and a wife, no money, no regrets, no mistress and no interest on wasting time with self absorbed assholes.
 
2014-03-19 03:29:08 PM  

elgrancerdo: But don't get all offended if you are being asked this questions


It's none of your farking business, Mr "I'll choose only good people"

Fark off.  And don't forget your kids.
 
2014-03-19 03:30:56 PM  

Satan's Bunny Slippers: MadMattressMack: udhq: CanisNoir: Umm, not wanting someone to murder another human being as a form of "birth control" isn't exactly a moral hang up so much as just common decency.

That a fetus is a human being is your belief, and yours alone, and it is not supported by ANY science on the matter.  It is merely a point of dogma, and shouldn't be used as a pretext to strip the basic human rights from someone who does not accept it as such.

To believe so, you also must believe that a woman who chooses to have sex surrenders the very ownership of her body to the government for the gestational period.

I'd agree with you to a point. You can't have an abortion at 8 months and 29 days because you decided you don't want it. I'm against abortion of viable fetuses outside of health concerns for the mother and / or fetus.

Abortions are not performed past the second trimester except in extreme medical cases.  So stop making up weird scenarios.


What? Did I not express this correctly? I said I agree with the established procedures that directly contradict the above text. Did I miss something in this thread where there was an establishment on what "fetus" meant other than "fetus"?
 
2014-03-19 03:31:35 PM  

Satan's Bunny Slippers: bunner: At the risk of peeing in the petunias of the diverse and oft highly gymnastic and overwrought opinions on this lofty matter, uh, isn't it pretty much piss easy NOT to get knocked up if you don't want to?  I mean, I think we're past the coca cola douche and rosary stage for contraception.  Shouldn't this be a go to BEFORE one trundles off to get their very own abortion story?  And skip "but z0mg teh rape victims" rant.  This isn't about.  Plainly.

Bun, you know this.  Even diligent use of birth control fails.  Condoms break.  Pills fail, conception occurs, IUDs shift, not everyone is good with Norplant (as in allergic, and some insurances don't cover it anyway). Some women don't want to use the pill due to cancer risks.

So if birth control fails, which IS what the article referenced...that if her birth control failed and she got pregnant, she would have no issue with an abortion, a woman should have a child she took active steps to prevent?  And don't walk down that tubal ligation road, because no 20 something that's sexually active is going to have a tubal so she doesn't conceive. Or should women be coerced into using a drug they don't want to to satisfy some pearl clutching anti abortionist?

So what should they do?


Yeah, it get that.   But not at a rate that compels at least one abortion per birth control victim or they'd be out of business.  It is case per case, yeah, but most birth control DOES work and a lot of people don't bother and yeah, and you know this, lie about it because "I'm a victim" is the new national anthem.  That being said, amongst other things, they should sue the pharmaco untiol their gums bleed.  Every kick in the wallet improves technology because taking a handi wipe to your act is  cheaper than razing the company plant.  All I'm saying is at least put your f*cking shoes on before you walk into the mine field.
 
2014-03-19 03:32:19 PM  

ManateeGag: Nabb1: sigdiamond2000: reprobate1125: I think that recognizing that you're too self-absorbed to have children is a good thing.

I do too, but for some people, there is no good reason not to have children. A lot of people can't even process the concept of not wanting children, so they assume something is wrong with people who don't.

Those people are just as wrong as people who can't think of any justification for having kids. Parenting is hard work. You can't put yourself first again until they are able to take care of themselves. It's not for everyone. I know irresponsible people who shouldn't have kids and great people who would make great parents if they tried but choose not to.

people think my wife and I would make great parents (don't ask me why, I have no bloody idea) - neither of us really want kids, and we get a ton of shiat for it from people who think they know everything about our lives and how we live.  Why do people (not saying you) have to tell us that we are horrible people for the decisions we make in our lives?


Have you considered fostering? Just curious.
And, you're not horrible people: you're not contributing to over-populating our planet.
You're saving more money for retirement.
You never have to worry about your kid terrorizing others.
You can be an awesome Auntie and Uncle.
You can pursue the things you want without ever neglecting anyone.
 
2014-03-19 03:32:31 PM  

Pincy: I think you are spot on here. I've gotten this line before too, "But what if the baby you never plan on having was going to be the next Einstein?" They pretend like it's a compliment ("You are good enough to create the next Einstein") but really the implication is that you should be having kids for the good of the country/world/universe and if you don't then you are selfish.


What if that baby you never plan on having was going to become the next George Bush?

Honestly, I have two sisters. You can tell we're sisters if you look at our faces. But we're all entirely different people, who have taken different paths, have divergent views, look nothing alike in style/fashion, and generally you wouldn't think grew up in the exact same environment, bred from the same genes.

I love them dearly, and we have some things in common (like the sister and I who both get migraines - which is hereditary; and the panic attack thing - also hereditary) but NOTHING is a guarantee of what you get. I know my father wonders what he did wrong ending up with a liberal atheist childfree punk rock daughter.

*shrug* Nothing guarantees anything.
 
2014-03-19 03:32:46 PM  
MadMattressMack:

I'd agree with you to a point. You can't have an abortion at 8 months and 29 days because you decided you don't want it. I'm against abortion of viable fetuses outside of health concerns for the mother and / or fetus.

Abortions are not performed past the second trimester except in extreme medical cases.  So stop making up weird scenarios.

What? Did I not express this correctly? I said I agree with the established procedures that directly contradict the above text. Did I miss something in this thread where there was an establishment on what "fetus" meant other than "fetus"?


see bolded.
 
2014-03-19 03:32:49 PM  

MadMattressMack: if you don't have kids then you lose at evolution. But hey, if you'd rather the world be populated by bible thumpers then knock yourself out. Just don't complain when the world is populated by bible thumpers. I won't judge you for not having kids, but I will when you start whining.


See, but my beliefs are contagious. Its like catching a cold but instead of sneezing you ramble about theories of acceptable violence, shake your fist in wal-streets general direction, and yell at liberals.

I just need to infect a bunch of fundie kids. Each one is a 2 point swing!
 
2014-03-19 03:33:38 PM  

serpent_sky: Nothing guarantees anything.


Which is the very reason science exists.
 
2014-03-19 03:35:37 PM  

Mitch Taylor's Bro: genner: DArque Bishop: the ha ha guy: GanjSmokr: "The official line of anti-choicers..."

I'm pro-choice, but saying "pro-lifers" are "anti-choicers" is about as stupid as saying "pro-choicers" are "anti-lifers".

Pro-choice = "It's your choice to terminate the pregnancy."
Pro-life = "Your pregnancy must be maintained at all costs."
Anti-choice = "You don't have a choice, you must have children or you're a failure as a human being."

Anti-life =

[img.fark.net image 400x300]

Both terms are propaganda. We should just call them pro-aboriton and and anti-abortion.

I'm down wit dat.

 Problem:
Even people who get abortions think they suck.
So in reality nobody really likes abortion, unless they like dead babies.

If we had a way to have the body reabsorb the kid, ie vanishing twin syndrome, it would be a better solution.
 
2014-03-19 03:35:44 PM  
Poor baby. Maybe you shouldn't make your personal choices public without expecting a public response to a private choice.
 
2014-03-19 03:38:16 PM  

bunner: Satan's Bunny Slippers: bunner: At the risk of peeing in the petunias of the diverse and oft highly gymnastic and overwrought opinions on this lofty matter, uh, isn't it pretty much piss easy NOT to get knocked up if you don't want to?  I mean, I think we're past the coca cola douche and rosary stage for contraception.  Shouldn't this be a go to BEFORE one trundles off to get their very own abortion story?  And skip "but z0mg teh rape victims" rant.  This isn't about.  Plainly.

Bun, you know this.  Even diligent use of birth control fails.  Condoms break.  Pills fail, conception occurs, IUDs shift, not everyone is good with Norplant (as in allergic, and some insurances don't cover it anyway). Some women don't want to use the pill due to cancer risks.

So if birth control fails, which IS what the article referenced...that if her birth control failed and she got pregnant, she would have no issue with an abortion, a woman should have a child she took active steps to prevent?  And don't walk down that tubal ligation road, because no 20 something that's sexually active is going to have a tubal so she doesn't conceive. Or should women be coerced into using a drug they don't want to to satisfy some pearl clutching anti abortionist?

So what should they do?

Yeah, it get that.   But not at a rate that compels at least one abortion per birth control victim or they'd be out of business.  It is case per case, yeah, but most birth control DOES work and a lot of people don't bother and yeah, and you know this, lie about it because "I'm a victim" is the new national anthem.  That being said, amongst other things, they should sue the pharmaco untiol their gums bleed.  Every kick in the wallet improves technology because taking a handi wipe to your act is  cheaper than razing the company plant.  All I'm saying is at least put your f*cking shoes on before you walk into the mine field.


well, I'm not arguing that.  I was referring to the content (using that term VERY loosely) of this writer's blog.  Not any other circumstance than that.  So, in that context, she uses birth control, it fails, she's going to have an abortion, I don't see why people get their panties all in a twist.

No, I agree it does not fail at a rate of significance.  And yes, some women use it as BC and not fall back, and lots of other bad reasons.  But in truth, why anyone would want to force a woman to have a child she didn't want and would most likely resent and treat badly (possibly while having major issues with drugs/alcohol/abuse) is beyond me.  I don't know why you would recommend suing pharma for bc failure.  Nothing is 100% except not having sex, and no bc out there says it's 100% and if they have side effects the user is informed of them.  I know, I've been on many kinds of oral bc until my tubal ligation.  I'm not sure where that comes into play here.
 
2014-03-19 03:38:27 PM  

CanisNoir: Because we have long established that the government *can* control what we do with our bodies, (see drug and suicide laws) and when it comes to decided laws, people having a "say" is how our Representative Republic works.


And currently, abortion is legal, so you really have no argument.
 
2014-03-19 03:39:00 PM  

MadMattressMack: ginandbacon: MadMattressMack: udhq: CanisNoir: Umm, not wanting someone to murder another human being as a form of "birth control" isn't exactly a moral hang up so much as just common decency.

That a fetus is a human being is your belief, and yours alone, and it is not supported by ANY science on the matter.  It is merely a point of dogma, and shouldn't be used as a pretext to strip the basic human rights from someone who does not accept it as such.

To believe so, you also must believe that a woman who chooses to have sex surrenders the very ownership of her body to the government for the gestational period.

I'd agree with you to a point. You can't have an abortion at 8 months and 29 days because you decided you don't want it. I'm against abortion of viable fetuses outside of health concerns for the mother and / or fetus.

Give me examples of women doing this.

I can't nor do I care to look up a case. But to believe it wouldn't happen is naive.


To believe it would is frankly bizarre. There are only 3? (I think--it might be 2) doctors who have clinics for late term abortions and they are medical procedures that are emergencies and devastating for the parents who have to go through them.

Dr. Tiller was murdered because of made up crap like you are spouting.
 
2014-03-19 03:43:43 PM  

Satan's Bunny Slippers: well, I'm not arguing that.  I was referring to the content (using that term VERY loosely) of this writer's blog.


Ah.


What should she do?


My guess is get an honest job, but then again, people do seem to have a great relish for other people's dirty laundry and drama.


This joint is crowded, y'all, and if we think that all we have to do is dump all of our data into a binary format and push a button and everything gets better, we deserve to wake up in the idiocracy.
 
2014-03-19 03:45:37 PM  

ginandbacon: To believe it would is frankly bizarre. There are only 3? (I think--it might be 2) doctors who have clinics for late term abortions and they are medical procedures that are emergencies and devastating for the parents who have to go through them.


Nobody goes through 8.5 months of pregnancy and all the associated horrors and woes and says "ya know what? I changed my mind." It just doesn't happen. It's a sick fantasy of the anti-choice movement that women everywhere are getting JUST to the point of going into labor, and running off to evil abortion clinics who can't wait to abort that about to be born baby. They even set a clock to see if they can beat it. And then they take the products of that last second abortion, roast it over a fire  (and that's the ONLY way it can be prepared, it's part of the ritual) and all partake in a joyous late-term abortion feast.

In reality, anyone having an abortion in the third trimester is going through some serious shiat and is likely to die without said abortion, assuming there is even anything close to alive inside them. And they're having a hard time because they almost carried their pregnancy to term and there were literally no other options at that point. Those people, everyone should feel bad for, not use them as examples of run of the mill abortions that are not even close to developed babies.
 
2014-03-19 03:48:12 PM  

serpent_sky: ginandbacon: To believe it would is frankly bizarre. There are only 3? (I think--it might be 2) doctors who have clinics for late term abortions and they are medical procedures that are emergencies and devastating for the parents who have to go through them.

Nobody goes through 8.5 months of pregnancy and all the associated horrors and woes and says "ya know what? I changed my mind." It just doesn't happen. It's a sick fantasy of the anti-choice movement that women everywhere are getting JUST to the point of going into labor, and running off to evil abortion clinics who can't wait to abort that about to be born baby. They even set a clock to see if they can beat it. And then they take the products of that last second abortion, roast it over a fire  (and that's the ONLY way it can be prepared, it's part of the ritual) and all partake in a joyous late-term abortion feast.

In reality, anyone having an abortion in the third trimester is going through some serious shiat and is likely to die without said abortion, assuming there is even anything close to alive inside them. And they're having a hard time because they almost carried their pregnancy to term and there were literally no other options at that point. Those people, everyone should feel bad for, not use them as examples of run of the mill abortions that are not even close to developed babies.


You said it perfectly.

Except I thought the fetuses were braised, not roasted? Have I been doing it wrong all these years? Dammit. I have to turn in my feminazi card, don't I?
 
2014-03-19 03:48:43 PM  

bunner: What should she do?


My guess is get an honest job,


Ok, that made me larf.

Have a good day bunner, I gotta go to a meeting.  Why they schedule meetings at frakkin 3pm is beyond me.

:)
 
2014-03-19 03:50:00 PM  

TheExcalibur: Can't we just all agree anything with a heart beat has rights and go from there?

This pro-choice pro-life rhetoric/garbage just hides the fact that no one wants to sit down and define what constitutes "life"


No it doesn't.   What does the definition of life have to do with whether or not a woman is allowed to choose to abort?
A fetus (dead, alive or in between) has no inherent right to use a person's body against his or her will.
 
2014-03-19 03:50:57 PM  

someonelse: ERNesbitt: Pincy: bunner: "I don't want to have babies!"

"That works for me."


"But I totally want a stiff one in my girl place, like, a LOT!"


"Good luck to you."


Next attention whore, please.


And some tea.

I think we can all agree that women who like sex are morally reprehensible.

Just the ones who broadcast it ironically.

I need that explained.


Scenario 1: Extols the virtue of feminine principles and independence from the sexist regime; finds a "weak" partner onto which she can project her anger. (becomes the thing she claims to hate)

Scenario 2: Talks the talk, but gets all gooey when her pretentious, holier than though, boyfriend shows up... manages to convince herself that she wants to do and believe the same things he does. Secretly scared of being alone. (words and actions are in opposition)

Scenario 3: Completely normal person with a made-up online persona who says/does things for shock value, clicks, and attention. (hollow words with no substantial action)

tl;dr - You can't throw rocks at the boys with your friends and then sneak over for kissing games when it's dark.
 
2014-03-19 03:51:03 PM  

ginandbacon: serpent_sky: ginandbacon: To believe it would is frankly bizarre. There are only 3? (I think--it might be 2) doctors who have clinics for late term abortions and they are medical procedures that are emergencies and devastating for the parents who have to go through them.

Nobody goes through 8.5 months of pregnancy and all the associated horrors and woes and says "ya know what? I changed my mind." It just doesn't happen. It's a sick fantasy of the anti-choice movement that women everywhere are getting JUST to the point of going into labor, and running off to evil abortion clinics who can't wait to abort that about to be born baby. They even set a clock to see if they can beat it. And then they take the products of that last second abortion, roast it over a fire  (and that's the ONLY way it can be prepared, it's part of the ritual) and all partake in a joyous late-term abortion feast.

In reality, anyone having an abortion in the third trimester is going through some serious shiat and is likely to die without said abortion, assuming there is even anything close to alive inside them. And they're having a hard time because they almost carried their pregnancy to term and there were literally no other options at that point. Those people, everyone should feel bad for, not use them as examples of run of the mill abortions that are not even close to developed babies.

You said it perfectly.

Except I thought the fetuses were braised, not roasted? Have I been doing it wrong all these years? Dammit. I have to turn in my feminazi card, don't I?


well crap, I've been using sous vide!  But it does keep them tender...
 
2014-03-19 03:51:07 PM  

Graffito: A fetus (dead, alive or in between) has no inherent right to use a person's body against his or her will.


And yet, this colorful if abstruse definition is how we all got here.  :  )
 
2014-03-19 03:51:35 PM  

serpent_sky: And currently, abortion is legal, so you really have no argument.


At one point in our history Slavery was legal, that's now outlawed, so I guess I actually *do* have a point.
 
2014-03-19 03:53:15 PM  

ERNesbitt: You can't throw rocks at the boys with your friends and then sneak over for kissing games when it's dark.



ERN?  You just put every summer camp in America out of business.   :  )
 
2014-03-19 03:56:02 PM  

ginandbacon: MadMattressMack: ginandbacon: MadMattressMack: udhq: CanisNoir: Umm, not wanting someone to murder another human being as a form of "birth control" isn't exactly a moral hang up so much as just common decency.

That a fetus is a human being is your belief, and yours alone, and it is not supported by ANY science on the matter.  It is merely a point of dogma, and shouldn't be used as a pretext to strip the basic human rights from someone who does not accept it as such.

To believe so, you also must believe that a woman who chooses to have sex surrenders the very ownership of her body to the government for the gestational period.

I'd agree with you to a point. You can't have an abortion at 8 months and 29 days because you decided you don't want it. I'm against abortion of viable fetuses outside of health concerns for the mother and / or fetus.

Give me examples of women doing this.

I can't nor do I care to look up a case. But to believe it wouldn't happen is naive.

To believe it would is frankly bizarre. There are only 3? (I think--it might be 2) doctors who have clinics for late term abortions and they are medical procedures that are emergencies and devastating for the parents who have to go through them.

Dr. Tiller was murdered because of made up crap like you are spouting.


What made up crap am I spouting? Do you honestly believe that if it were legal for any person anywhere to go get a late term abortion that it wouldn't happen? Diffuculty: you must include Florida and drug addicts.

I know it's not legal for that crap to happen and agree with the current laws that prohibit it. But without said laws, do you really think it would never happen?

And Dr. Tiller definitely wasn't murdered for the crap I'm spouting.  He was murdered by an schizo who thought he was doing something that he wasn't - namely providing illegal late term abortions.
 
2014-03-19 03:56:13 PM  

CanisNoir: serpent_sky: And currently, abortion is legal, so you really have no argument.

At one point in our history Slavery was legal, that's now outlawed, so I guess I actually *do* have a point.


Not really; at one point, alcohol was illegal, and that's now legal.
At one point, no gay couples could marry. Now, they can in many states.

Over time, laws change.

As of now, the law of the land is abortion is a legal medical procedure, whether or not some people disagree with it.  If you're arguing that maybe one day abortion will be illegal because some people disagree with it, I guess you have a point, I'll concede that much, but no more.  Though I certainly hope that day never comes.
 
Ant [TotalFark]
2014-03-19 03:57:02 PM  
Childless by choice people: Stop acting like there's something wrong with 'breeders' because they've decided to have children. You don't understand their reasons, and you are probably incapable of understanding their reasons, and that's just fine.

People with children: Stop acting like there's something wrong or selfish about not wanting children. It's a perfectly valid choice that does not reflect negatively upon the person's character. Some people don't want children.

tl;dr: Don't be an asshole
 
2014-03-19 03:59:08 PM  

MadMattressMack: What made up crap am I spouting? Do you honestly believe that if it were legal for any person anywhere to go get a late term abortion that it wouldn't happen? Diffuculty: you must include Florida and drug addicts.

I know it's not legal for that crap to happen and agree with the current laws that prohibit it. But without said laws, do you really think it would never happen?

And Dr. Tiller definitely wasn't murdered for the crap I'm spouting. He was murdered by an schizo who thought he was doing something that he wasn't - namely providing illegal late term abortions.


No, nobody thinks anyone would go through a pregnancy just to have a late term abortion. The notion is simply absurd. And the fact that people think people would, or that doctors would provide them "just because" is precisely why Dr. Tiller was murdered. Because people think that there is a demand for, and people are obtaining, late term abortions when that could not be further from the truth.  The fact that it was someone with schizophrenia (not sure if that is even true) would make it worse because they'd be more likely to believe the lies.
 
Ant [TotalFark]
2014-03-19 04:00:22 PM  

sigdiamond2000: I do too, but for some people, there is no good reason not to have children. A lot of people can't even process the concept of not wanting children, so they assume something is wrong with people who don't.


Those people are called 'assholes'

I have an 8-year-old son, and I can't imagine life without him now, but I fully understand why some people wouldn't want kids. It does not make them any more or less human in my mind.
 
2014-03-19 04:00:49 PM  

Satan's Bunny Slippers: elgrancerdo: But don't get all offended if you are being asked this questions

It's none of your farking business, Mr "I'll choose only good people"

Fark off.  And don't forget your kids.


I did not ask you, SBS specifically, these questions.  You volunteered an answer before I even approached you and asked.  My only purpose on this post was to exemplify that the questions have to do with how to choose people with similar interests, not necessarily "only good people".  I say that because I know plenty of Christians that I do not hang out with because they are Republican, do not drink and dance and spend their days criticizing other people.  To them, I am not good people.  I avoid that kind of people like the scum they are.
 
Ant [TotalFark]
2014-03-19 04:04:47 PM  

Nabb1: and some of those angry comments she highlighted were directed at her calling children "time-sucking monsters"


Yeah, that was a little too much, but it'd be worse if it was coming from someone who actually had kids.
 
2014-03-19 04:05:17 PM  

ERNesbitt: someonelse: ERNesbitt: Pincy: bunner: "I don't want to have babies!"

"That works for me."


"But I totally want a stiff one in my girl place, like, a LOT!"


"Good luck to you."


Next attention whore, please.


And some tea.

I think we can all agree that women who like sex are morally reprehensible.

Just the ones who broadcast it ironically.

I need that explained.

Scenario 1: Extols the virtue of feminine principles and independence from the sexist regime; finds a "weak" partner onto which she can project her anger. (becomes the thing she claims to hate)

Scenario 2: Talks the talk, but gets all gooey when her pretentious, holier than though, boyfriend shows up... manages to convince herself that she wants to do and believe the same things he does. Secretly scared of being alone. (words and actions are in opposition)

Scenario 3: Completely normal person with a made-up online persona who says/does things for shock value, clicks, and attention. (hollow words with no substantial action)

tl;dr - You can't throw rocks at the boys with your friends and then sneak over for kissing games when it's dark.


Can I use the trashcan shield to stop the rock throwing, and then go play kissing games?
Seriously. What is with kids and throwing rocks?
 
2014-03-19 04:05:59 PM  

elgrancerdo: they are Republican, do not drink and dance and spend their days criticizing other people.  To them, I am not good people.  I avoid that kind of people like the scum they are.


:  /

:  \


:  |



Check.
 
2014-03-19 04:07:09 PM  

tlars699: What is with kids and throwing rocks?


Nobody with any ethics will sell them guns.
 
2014-03-19 04:07:55 PM  

serpent_sky: As of now, the law of the land is abortion is a legal medical procedure, whether or not some people disagree with it. If you're arguing that maybe one day abortion will be illegal because some people disagree with it, I guess you have a point, I'll concede that much, but no more. Though I certainly hope that day never comes.


Well I always assumed that changing the laws was the whole point behind the "Pro-Life" movement. I mean, sure, a pro-lifer can (and does) run around shouting nonsense at people going into abortion clinics, that's their right, everyone is allowed to act like an inconsiderate arsehole, but the whole point of debating, protesting and lobbying representatives is to get the law changed.

/For the record, more pro-choice than pro-life myself
//would not mind Roe v. Wade being over turned and letting the states decide
///but I'm a small gubmint libertarian\conservative that way.
 
2014-03-19 04:10:46 PM  
I'm a thirty year old sterile female. I had a tubal ligation and uterine ablation done. I cannot have kids and if I somehow got pregnant, I cannot safely carry to term. I have no children. I have chosen to be childless.

This gets me unending shiat at work. At one point I had to go to my supervisor because someone i got stuck working with would not drop the topic. People just get really, really shirty when you choose not to have children.

I think it's because it pokes holes in their worldview.
 
Ant [TotalFark]
2014-03-19 04:12:00 PM  

Philibuster: My wife and I get constantly asked when we are going to have kids. She's 28 I'm 29, and we have absolutely no interest in having them. She works with kids daily, and I work with sick kids daily, that is more than enough for us.

I have heard everything on the bingo board at least twice...I don't understand what is so damn interesting about my reproductive status for uninvolved parties.


Even if you do have a kid someday, they'll still bug you about having more.

Us: "One is enough for us"
Them: "But he needs a little brother or sister!"
Us: "Nope"
Them: "That's a shame"
 
2014-03-19 04:12:26 PM  

serpent_sky: No, nobody thinks anyone would go through a pregnancy just to have a late term abortion. The notion is simply absurd. And the fact that people think people would, or that doctors would provide them "just because" is precisely why Dr. Tiller was murdered. Because people think that there is a demand for, and people are obtaining, late term abortions when that could not be further from the truth.  The fact that it was someone with schizophrenia (not sure if that is even true) would make it worse because they'd be more likely to believe the lies.


OK, now I will go look it up examples as apparently it is that hard for people to believe (it was hard to find reputable sources as most were articles by pro-life groups):

http://www.walb.com/story/24691279/valdosta-doctor-arrested-extradic te d-from-germany

http://www.cnn.com/2013/04/18/us/pennsylvania-abortion-doctor/

It's not common, it's illegal, and most people would never do such a thing. But to discount the possibility entirely is foolish.
 
2014-03-19 04:12:58 PM  

CanisNoir: Well I always assumed that changing the laws was the whole point behind the "Pro-Life" movement. I mean, sure, a pro-lifer can (and does) run around shouting nonsense at people going into abortion clinics, that's their right, everyone is allowed to act like an inconsiderate arsehole, but the whole point of debating, protesting and lobbying representatives is to get the law changed.

/For the record, more pro-choice than pro-life myself
//would not mind Roe v. Wade being over turned and letting the states decide


A lot of women in red states would die from back alley abortions/taking crazy pills/whatever to attempt to terminate pregnancy, though. That's the concern, for me, and why I think we need a federal law ensuring the right to abortion.

I'm not for *big* government, but if I had my way, some things would just be federally mandated because we'll literally end up with two countries otherwise - a true divide of red and blue. I think gay marriage should be federally approved across the board, as should protections for GLBT people, and abortion as well. Marijuana (all drugs, really) should be legalized, as should prostitution.

It will very unlikely happen, but given the lay of the land, it's not like we can cut the country in half and make two. And you could have a liberal utopia next to a conservative hellhole (depending on your views, though I think mine are pretty clear) and it would just be a huge mess. Worse than it is now. That's why I think Roe V. Wade is so important.
 
2014-03-19 04:14:18 PM  

elgrancerdo: I hate to do this to you all, but unfortunately someone has to tell you:

Self awareness that you are self absorbed, and be able to communicate it to breeders asking "how come?", proves the point of the breeders that there is something wrong with you.  Because, no matter how much you state it as a fact, I mean, listen to yourself: "I can't have children because I hate children", "I would not make a good dad/mom", "I am too self absorbed to give time to children", "I have too many activities helping other children for me to have my own", "I love children, but I also love that they leave eventually", "parenting is a 24/7 job and it is not for me", and my favorite "why should I be required by law to change someone else's dirty diaper".

It has been said that nobody has more love than the person who is willing to die for friends.  The root of this comment goes down to the issue of how much are you willing to give of yourself for somebody else without expecting anything in return.  If you love a woman/man, you must likely get a sexual orgasm, but with children you may not only not receive anything, but the added heartache and disappointment may come as well, even if you did everything "right" in your opinion.  What gets me is that there are so many people lately that find it OK not to give of themselves to someone else for the sake of just doing it.  Their definition of love is obviously different.  And that is what is wrong with them.

I find it interesting to ask why you don't have children not because I want to pressure you into having them.  I want to know if I need to avoid you (worst case) or how to deal with you appropriately.  Not all people who don't want to have children are assholes, some are truly beautiful that want to be accepted into any group and don't mind listening to your tantrum stories and looking at your facebook pictures.  But don't get all offended if you are being asked this questions.  First of all, you don't have to answer them if you don't fee ...


2/10, I think you'll get some bites on the insinuating people that don't want to have kids have something wrong with them.
 
2014-03-19 04:15:03 PM  
Don't worry Ms. Blogger. Any Bicycle with half a brain will pedal away from you, you cold fish. Just don't whine about it in 20 years.

/Do the world a favor and donate your ovaries.
//They are literally worth a fortune.
 
2014-03-19 04:17:28 PM  
Amanda Marcotte in her own words:

"Well, let me just put a stop to this shiat right now. You can give me gold-plated day care and an awesome public school right on the street corner and start paying me 15% more at work, and I still do not want a baby. I don't particularly like babies. They are loud and smelly and, above all other things, demanding. No matter how much free day care you throw at women, babies are still time-sucking monsters with their constant neediness. No matter how flexible you make my work schedule, my entire life would be overturned by a baby. I like  my life how it is, with my ability to do what I want when I want without having to arrange for a babysitter. I like being able to watchTrue Detective right now and not wait until baby is in bed. I like sex in any room of the house I please. I don't want a baby. I've heard your pro-baby arguments. Glad those work for you, but they are unconvincing to me. Nothing will make me want a baby.

"And don't float "adoption" as an answer. Adoption? fark you, seriously. I am not turning my body over for nine months of gaining weight and puking and being tired and suffering and not being able to sleep on my side and going to the hospital for a bout of misery and pain so that some couple I don't know and probably don't even like can have a baby. I don't owe that couple a free couch to sleep on while they come to my city to check out the local orphans, so I sure as shiat don't own them my  body. I like drinking alcohol and eating soft cheese. I like not having a giant growth protruding out of my stomach. I hate hospitals and like not having stretch marks. We don't even force men to donate sperm-a largely pleasurable activity with no physical cost-so forcing women to donate babies is reprehensible.

"This is why, if my birth control fails, I am totally having an abortion. Given the choice between living my life how I please and having my body within my control and the fate of a lentil-sized, brainless embryo that has half a chance of dying on its own anyway, I choose me."

I really don't give two shiats whether anyone wants kids or not, wants to have an abortion or not-- family planning is a topic for the people planning that family. But this chick is a coont.
 
2014-03-19 04:19:17 PM  

serpent_sky: MadMattressMack: What made up crap am I spouting? Do you honestly believe that if it were legal for any person anywhere to go get a late term abortion that it wouldn't happen? Diffuculty: you must include Florida and drug addicts.

I know it's not legal for that crap to happen and agree with the current laws that prohibit it. But without said laws, do you really think it would never happen?

And Dr. Tiller definitely wasn't murdered for the crap I'm spouting. He was murdered by an schizo who thought he was doing something that he wasn't - namely providing illegal late term abortions.

No, nobody thinks anyone would go through a pregnancy just to have a late term abortion. The notion is simply absurd. And the fact that people think people would, or that doctors would provide them "just because" is precisely why Dr. Tiller was murdered. Because people think that there is a demand for, and people are obtaining, late term abortions when that could not be further from the truth.  The fact that it was someone with schizophrenia (not sure if that is even true) would make it worse because they'd be more likely to believe the lies.


It is infuriating to me that people have such a disconnect when it comes to this issue. Violence against reproductive healthcare providers is always fueled by lies and it is very serious. People are literally risking their lives to make sure women have access to basic healthcare which would take place in a hospital for free in most other developed nations. Clinics are bombed, workers are shot, one guy tried to drive a car into a clinic but got stopped by the concrete barriers they had.

It's insane and disgusting.
 
2014-03-19 04:19:38 PM  

MadMattressMack: http://www.walb.com/story/24691279/valdosta-doctor-arrested-extradic te d-from-germany

http://www.cnn.com/2013/04/18/us/pennsylvania-abortion-doctor/

It's not common, it's illegal, and most people would never do such a thing. But to discount the possibility entirely is foolish.


Kenneth Gosnell was a particularly sadistic monster who nobody on the pro-choice side of things would even consider supporting.  How anyone would even agree to a procedure in a clinic that sounds like something straight out of "American Horror Story" is beyond me. But he is a horrible person who clearly has some serious mental issues.  But that's one guy. ONE crazy guy out of the thousands of doctors who provide safe, sterile, legal abortions. He kept body parts in jars and shoe boxes. That's a horror movie serial killer, not a doctor.

Using him as the poster boy for abortion is disingenuous and considering that most doctors who perform abortions are OB/GYNS, the vast majority would never agree to do anything like what he did.
 
2014-03-19 04:20:01 PM  

Ringshadow: I'm a thirty year old sterile female. I had a tubal ligation and uterine ablation done. I cannot have kids and if I somehow got pregnant, I cannot safely carry to term. I have no children. I have chosen to be childless.

This gets me unending shiat at work. At one point I had to go to my supervisor because someone i got stuck working with would not drop the topic. People just get really, really shirty when you choose not to have children.

I think it's because it pokes holes in their worldview.


The other half of this coin are the people who are trying to have kids, but haven't succeeded, and are fed up with answering questions that are really nobody's business.
Good on you for taking it to your supervisor.
 
2014-03-19 04:20:05 PM  

Mitch Taylor's Bro: genner: DArque Bishop: the ha ha guy: GanjSmokr: "The official line of anti-choicers..."

I'm pro-choice, but saying "pro-lifers" are "anti-choicers" is about as stupid as saying "pro-choicers" are "anti-lifers".

Pro-choice = "It's your choice to terminate the pregnancy."
Pro-life = "Your pregnancy must be maintained at all costs."
Anti-choice = "You don't have a choice, you must have children or you're a failure as a human being."

Anti-life =

[img.fark.net image 400x300]

Both terms are propaganda. We should just call them pro-aboriton and and anti-abortion.

I'm down wit dat.


But do you have TIME fo' dat?
 
2014-03-19 04:20:14 PM  

Nabb1: After reading that article, I think she is making the right call because she comes off as way too self-absorbed to be a parent.


I was pleasantly surprised by how rational the article read and how her version of feminism was refreshingly about equality, rather than the male-bashing I have come to expect from "feminists."
 
2014-03-19 04:22:37 PM  

ginandbacon: It is infuriating to me that people have such a disconnect when it comes to this issue. Violence against reproductive healthcare providers is always fueled by lies and it is very serious. People are literally risking their lives to make sure women have access to basic healthcare which would take place in a hospital for free in most other developed nations. Clinics are bombed, workers are shot, one guy tried to drive a car into a clinic but got stopped by the concrete barriers they had.

It's insane and disgusting.


All in the name of being "pro-life" no less.

I know if I called myself "pro-life" I'd probably have a really hard time murdering or attempting to murder other adults. But these people don't.  The word "disconnect" isn't even strong enough here. In the name of being "pro life", they actually kill people.
 
2014-03-19 04:23:39 PM  
7deadlysinners.typepad.com

Reblogging because holy shiat I think I've gotten every single one of these questions.
1.bp.blogspot.com
 
2014-03-19 04:24:07 PM  

CanisNoir: udhq: To believe so, you also must believe that a woman who chooses to have sex surrenders the very ownership of her body to the government for the gestational period.

No, but I believe she is placing herself in that risk. Having unprotected sex drastically increases the odds one will get pregnant, don't like those odds, you know how to change the equation. We *should* be able to control our baser instincts no? So use some brains, think about the consequences of your actions and then act in a manner that decreases the odds of an unwanted outcome; really it's not that hard. If it means holding off sex for a day or so, I think you'll survive.


I think you shouldn't presume your moral dogma has any place in anybody else's decision to have sex or not.
 
2014-03-19 04:24:20 PM  
...and with that, darlings, it's time for me to head out of here. Been fun, as always.
 
2014-03-19 04:30:03 PM  

serpent_sky: A lot of women in red states would die from back alley abortions/taking crazy pills/whatever to attempt to terminate pregnancy, though. That's the concern, for me, and why I think we need a federal law ensuring the right to abortion.


And I would prefer a better more focused adoption and foster care program instead of abortion. If it's a choice twixt mothers life and unborn lil one, then yea, abort that biatch; however, I also think that there is now an air of permissiveness that has contributed greatly to our "young unwed single parent" syndrom that is a large contributer to the poverty levels, neglected children and other assorted problems in society.
So in that sense, I don't see the pro-lifers as being such bad people because, it just might cause people to think twice about the consequences of their actions.
 
2014-03-19 04:31:12 PM  
rzrwiresunrise: 

Okay- I get that she calls them time sucking Monsters. Truth be told they are, really. I love them and they're cuddly, but they pull your hair and sometimes will cry for no reason, and they ARE time-suckers, and needy because (DUH) they're a baby.

And she's very selfish, and protective of her time/her choices.

But the real people who are coonts who think in this manner, and decide to have the baby they made accidentally anyway, and do not change their behavior in any way, shape or form.

She is not a coont; she's biatchy, but she owns the biatchiness.
 
2014-03-19 04:31:14 PM  

serpent_sky: MadMattressMack: http://www.walb.com/story/24691279/valdosta-doctor-arrested-extradic te d-from-germany

http://www.cnn.com/2013/04/18/us/pennsylvania-abortion-doctor/

It's not common, it's illegal, and most people would never do such a thing. But to discount the possibility entirely is foolish.

Kenneth Gosnell was a particularly sadistic monster who nobody on the pro-choice side of things would even consider supporting.  How anyone would even agree to a procedure in a clinic that sounds like something straight out of "American Horror Story" is beyond me. But he is a horrible person who clearly has some serious mental issues.  But that's one guy. ONE crazy guy out of the thousands of doctors who provide safe, sterile, legal abortions. He kept body parts in jars and shoe boxes. That's a horror movie serial killer, not a doctor.

Using him as the poster boy for abortion is disingenuous and considering that most doctors who perform abortions are OB/GYNS, the vast majority would never agree to do anything like what he did.


Very, very true. I'm just using him as an extreme example to support my point: that it is possible for that crap to happen. I do us him to show any sort of comparison to how the industry in the extreme majority operates, but if there are people who are willing to get "but lifts" from a guy in a van who's using fix a flat then they're some out there who're willing to do just about anything. That means you have to consider them as well and is why there are laws.

Which is why in my original post I said I agree with abortions to a point and was told my line of thought is why Dr. Tiller got murdered.
 
2014-03-19 04:32:25 PM  

MadMattressMack: I do not use him to show any sort of comparison to how the industry in the extreme majority operates


FTFM - keyboard glitched on me
 
2014-03-19 04:32:27 PM  

tlars699: but she owns the biatchiness.


I dare say it would be somewhat likely to languish on the open market.
 
2014-03-19 04:35:11 PM  

Ringshadow: [7deadlysinners.typepad.com image 400x462]

Reblogging because holy shiat I think I've gotten every single one of these questions.
[1.bp.blogspot.com image 453x700]


I've bred, am gestating, and find the breeder bingo posits both present at my workplace, and semi-reprehensible.
I mean- children are a woman's greatest acheivement? REALLY?
 
2014-03-19 04:37:21 PM  

bunner: tlars699: but she owns the biatchiness.

I dare say it would be somewhat likely to languish on the open market.


Only on the trading floor. I know that as a small operation, she'll be likely to get tons of customers based on the "You have to be a biatch to succeed" mantra. Kind of like Spanx- which would probably become a merger or an affiliated company.
 
2014-03-19 04:37:39 PM  

CanisNoir: verbaltoxin: Argumentum ad populum. Really? Because some people are squicked out by it and their church says no, then it's not birth control?

No, it's not birth control because even the pro-choice side realizes that trying to claim abortion as birth control is stupid and would quickly lose them any moral high ground they had.


It's the "nuclear option" of birth control, but it should still be on the table, available and as safe as possible for women to choose if they want to.
 
2014-03-19 04:38:42 PM  

udhq: I think you shouldn't presume your moral dogma has any place in anybody else's decision to have sex or not.


Nobody is talking about whether or not you or anyone else has sex, they're talking about taking responsability for your actions. It's not like the fact that sex can cause pregnancy is some huge big secret that you're surprised with when it happens. So, take care to wrap it up, or what ever other contraception methods you want, and odds are very good you won't have a problem. Sure, contraception doesn't work 100% of the time, guess what, life's not fair, it works enough that risking killing another human being because you're afraid you might be the .01% outlier is ludicrous.
 
2014-03-19 04:40:00 PM  
I don't know how to break this to the female population but "I have a huge stick up my ass and you better be worried about it!" sort of got it's third coat of "how nice" years ago.   Years.  Like older that Oprah's stretch marks.  No man worth your time even pays attention to that anymore, let alone puts a penny in the fare box.
 
2014-03-19 04:44:41 PM  
Elegy:

For two, this is on her PUBLIC blog and her PUBLIC twitter feed. If she doesn't want social interaction, private your social media. The internet is the world's largest bathroom wall and billboard all rolled into one. Don't want commentary? Don't write on the wall where everyone can see it.


You - and a hell of a lot of other people on this thread - are missing the point of the article.  It wasn't that she was mad that people had reacted, it was that the reactions showed that the pro-lifers' motivation isn't life, it's control of women's sexuality.  Now, there's probably a counter-argument to be made there, but that's what she was getting at, not "boo hoo, they were mean to me."
 
2014-03-19 04:46:09 PM  

tlars699: The other half of this coin are the people who are trying to have kids, but haven't succeeded, and are fed up with answering questions that are really nobody's business.
Good on you for taking it to your supervisor.


I've actually just tried to claim that i can't have kids instead of flat out stating I've been sterilized. It doesn't usually work. So far, nine out of ten dudes are utterly cool with me not having kids (me gusta faces are common), but about four out of ten dudettes lose their shiat at me. I don't like getting supervision involved, trust me. The one time I had to, it was a guy and it was so I didn't punch him out because I have no idea why he thought any of what he said was okay.

The setup was I was waiting to survey a piece of equipment but my survey was dependent on another department's work, so I couldn't leave. I was stuck there for over an hour with this guy, who was going to work on the equipment after I did my thing. So we're both stuck there. Keep in mind this guy is a total stranger to me.

Dude: So are you married.
Me: No.
Him: Kids?
Me: No.
Him: Why not?
Me: Why not what?
Him: Why don't you have kids?
Me: *wtf stare* I'm not married, and I can't have kids.
Him: You don't know that!
Me: I do.
Him: You can't know that.
Me: Yes, I do. Because I paid ten grand making sure of the fact.
Him: What.
Me: Consider this my formal request to drop the topic.
Him: But everyone needs kids! I have seven kids!
Me: Good for you.
Him: That just really makes me wonder about your doctor, I mean you're a healthy..
Me: I'm sorry what? Are you insulting a medical professional who dared listen to my opinion?

At that point work actually happened. I was willing to let it go. UNTIL.

Him: Next time I see you, I want to see you with a wedding ring on your finger and your belly like this. *pregnant belly arm gesture
Me: *RRRAAAAAGE*

So, once we're back in the offices.

Supervisor: How did it go?
Me: ahahh HAHAHAHAHAHAH.
Supervisor: Uh oh.
Me: Please talk to him or I'll be having HR talk to him.

Dude never looked at me again.

/long not so cool story sis.
 
2014-03-19 04:50:31 PM  

Osomatic: it was that the reactions showed that the pro-lifers' motivation isn't life, it's control of women's sexuality


It is my assertion that, by and large, the preponderance of the public or any given subset therefrom is ~astoundingly~ uninterested in what people do as long as it doesn't cost them money.  Let alone willing to put any time into controlling it.
 
2014-03-19 04:51:11 PM  

tlars699: Mitch Taylor's Bro: genner: DArque Bishop: the ha ha guy: GanjSmokr: "The official line of anti-choicers..."

I'm pro-choice, but saying "pro-lifers" are "anti-choicers" is about as stupid as saying "pro-choicers" are "anti-lifers".

Pro-choice = "It's your choice to terminate the pregnancy."
Pro-life = "Your pregnancy must be maintained at all costs."
Anti-choice = "You don't have a choice, you must have children or you're a failure as a human being."

Anti-life =

[img.fark.net image 400x300]

Both terms are propaganda. We should just call them pro-aboriton and and anti-abortion.

I'm down wit dat.
 Problem:
Even people who get abortions think they suck.
So in reality nobody really likes abortion, unless they like dead babies.

If we had a way to have the body reabsorb the kid, ie vanishing twin syndrome, it would be a better solution.


Problem: nothing you posted makes any sense.
 
2014-03-19 04:55:47 PM  
I've been married for 16yrs people often ask me why I don't have children, I tell them I'm trying to leave the world a better place than the one I was born into.
 
2014-03-19 04:56:46 PM  

ginandbacon: serpent_sky: ginandbacon: To believe it would is frankly bizarre. There are only 3? (I think--it might be 2) doctors who have clinics for late term abortions and they are medical procedures that are emergencies and devastating for the parents who have to go through them.

Nobody goes through 8.5 months of pregnancy and all the associated horrors and woes and says "ya know what? I changed my mind." It just doesn't happen. It's a sick fantasy of the anti-choice movement that women everywhere are getting JUST to the point of going into labor, and running off to evil abortion clinics who can't wait to abort that about to be born baby. They even set a clock to see if they can beat it. And then they take the products of that last second abortion, roast it over a fire  (and that's the ONLY way it can be prepared, it's part of the ritual) and all partake in a joyous late-term abortion feast.

In reality, anyone having an abortion in the third trimester is going through some serious shiat and is likely to die without said abortion, assuming there is even anything close to alive inside them. And they're having a hard time because they almost carried their pregnancy to term and there were literally no other options at that point. Those people, everyone should feel bad for, not use them as examples of run of the mill abortions that are not even close to developed babies.

You said it perfectly.

Except I thought the fetuses were braised, not roasted? Have I been doing it wrong all these years? Dammit. I have to turn in my feminazi card, don't I?


No, but you do have to move into a Feminazi® re-education camp until such thinking can be corrected. Braised? What kind of savage are you? :-)
 
2014-03-19 04:58:25 PM  

bunner: I don't know how to break this to the female population but "I have a huge stick up my ass and you better be worried about it!" sort of got it's third coat of "how nice" years ago.   Years.  Like older that Oprah's stretch marks.  No man worth your time even pays attention to that anymore, let alone puts a penny in the fare box.


Duly noted. I'll bring it up at the next meeting. Feel free to add any further edicts about how you think females should behave.
 
2014-03-19 05:01:25 PM  

someonelse: Duly noted. I'll bring it up at the next meeting. Feel free to add any further edicts about how you think females should behave.


Civilly.   :  )  Please feel free to continue to magically permutate observations into edicts.  It's edgy.
 
2014-03-19 05:06:32 PM  

Mitch Taylor's Bro: ginandbacon: serpent_sky: ginandbacon: To believe it would is frankly bizarre. There are only 3? (I think--it might be 2) doctors who have clinics for late term abortions and they are medical procedures that are emergencies and devastating for the parents who have to go through them.

Nobody goes through 8.5 months of pregnancy and all the associated horrors and woes and says "ya know what? I changed my mind." It just doesn't happen. It's a sick fantasy of the anti-choice movement that women everywhere are getting JUST to the point of going into labor, and running off to evil abortion clinics who can't wait to abort that about to be born baby. They even set a clock to see if they can beat it. And then they take the products of that last second abortion, roast it over a fire  (and that's the ONLY way it can be prepared, it's part of the ritual) and all partake in a joyous late-term abortion feast.

In reality, anyone having an abortion in the third trimester is going through some serious shiat and is likely to die without said abortion, assuming there is even anything close to alive inside them. And they're having a hard time because they almost carried their pregnancy to term and there were literally no other options at that point. Those people, everyone should feel bad for, not use them as examples of run of the mill abortions that are not even close to developed babies.

You said it perfectly.

Except I thought the fetuses were braised, not roasted? Have I been doing it wrong all these years? Dammit. I have to turn in my feminazi card, don't I?

No, but you do have to move into a Feminazi® re-education camp until such thinking can be corrected. Braised? What kind of savage are you? :-)


I didn't get the memo!!!!!! I hope they have nice sheets at this camp.
 
2014-03-19 05:08:46 PM  

Loaf's Tray: Mitch Taylor's Bro: genner: DArque Bishop: the ha ha guy: GanjSmokr: "The official line of anti-choicers..."

I'm pro-choice, but saying "pro-lifers" are "anti-choicers" is about as stupid as saying "pro-choicers" are "anti-lifers".

Pro-choice = "It's your choice to terminate the pregnancy."
Pro-life = "Your pregnancy must be maintained at all costs."
Anti-choice = "You don't have a choice, you must have children or you're a failure as a human being."

Anti-life =

[img.fark.net image 400x300]

Both terms are propaganda. We should just call them pro-aboriton and and anti-abortion.

I'm down wit dat.

But do you have TIME fo' dat?


Ain't NObody got time fo' dat! :-)

I believe "pro-choice" is a more honest "newspeak" term, but pro-life is largely a farce.*

* There are some pro-life advocates who actually house and care for expectant and new mothers. All they ask is that you listen to their religious recruitment. But most are quite satisfied with preventing women who want to have abortions from having them, then it's mostly "hey, you got yourself into this, you deal with the consequences."
 
2014-03-19 05:14:33 PM  

People_are_Idiots: As far as "free" preschool, A kid taught right doesn't need preschool


Tell that to all the children killed by their caregivers before being old enough for school. Getting children into regular social contact with people outside their families is one of the best and cheapest ways to protect them from abuses of all sorts and should be done as early as possible. It doesn't have to be anything like "school" but we should not force children to live in isolation for the 6 most vulnerable years of their lives.

It's also worth noting that not every kid has the opportunity to be "taught right" by whoever happened to spawn them. We shouldn't punish children for having bad parents; we should ensure that all children are "taught right" even if their parents are unable or unwilling.
 
2014-03-19 05:15:35 PM  

CanisNoir: udhq: I think you shouldn't presume your moral dogma has any place in anybody else's decision to have sex or not.

Nobody is talking about whether or not you or anyone else has sex, they're talking about taking responsability for your actions. It's not like the fact that sex can cause pregnancy is some huge big secret that you're surprised with when it happens. So, take care to wrap it up, or what ever other contraception methods you want, and odds are very good you won't have a problem. Sure, contraception doesn't work 100% of the time, guess what, life's not fair, it works enough that risking killing another human being because you're afraid you might be the .01% outlier is ludicrous.


You know what? If you believe in having things be anti-abortion, then you should invest in research into female anatomy and gestation.
Miscarriages happen frequently, with devastating effects on the parents/females involved, and the medical community most of the time has no clue as to why one fetus will succeed and another won't.

Perhaps through their findings, there will turn out to be a better option than abortions, and more effective than birth control.
Up until then, though, you should really stay out of other people's personal lives/choices on what they do with their body.
(Note: when they do an effectiveness study, they are only conducted over a time-span of 12 months, and with changes in hormone levels, some bodies can become adjusted to those levels over a longer span of time, and as a result the BC method can become not as effective as touted. Also, for 70% of a population of 1000, the pull-out method resulted in no pregnancies for the same period of time/studies conducted.)
 
2014-03-19 05:17:58 PM  

bunner: Osomatic: it was that the reactions showed that the pro-lifers' motivation isn't life, it's control of women's sexuality

It is my assertion that, by and large, the preponderance of the public or any given subset therefrom is ~astoundingly~ uninterested in what people do as long as it doesn't cost them money.  Let alone willing to put any time into controlling it.


How do you explain censorship laws, laws against pornography, regulations about profanity on television, laws regulating sexuality, etc etc etc?  If people didn't care enough to want these laws, they wouldn't exist.  This isn't the work of a few busybodies, it's the product of an entire society that historically has been very much interested in what you get up to behind closed doors.  Our laws may have changed over the years, but the fact that large percentages of the population want to control other people's behavior hasn't.
 
2014-03-19 05:20:20 PM  

bunner: someonelse: Duly noted. I'll bring it up at the next meeting. Feel free to add any further edicts about how you think females should behave.

Civilly.   :  )  Please feel free to continue to magically permutate observations into edicts.  It's edgy.


I don't know if it's quite as edgy as "older than Oprah's stretch marks."
 
2014-03-19 05:22:42 PM  

ginandbacon: Mitch Taylor's Bro: ginandbacon: serpent_sky: ginandbacon: To believe it would is frankly bizarre. There are only 3? (I think--it might be 2) doctors who have clinics for late term abortions and they are medical procedures that are emergencies and devastating for the parents who have to go through them.

Nobody goes through 8.5 months of pregnancy and all the associated horrors and woes and says "ya know what? I changed my mind." It just doesn't happen. It's a sick fantasy of the anti-choice movement that women everywhere are getting JUST to the point of going into labor, and running off to evil abortion clinics who can't wait to abort that about to be born baby. They even set a clock to see if they can beat it. And then they take the products of that last second abortion, roast it over a fire  (and that's the ONLY way it can be prepared, it's part of the ritual) and all partake in a joyous late-term abortion feast.

In reality, anyone having an abortion in the third trimester is going through some serious shiat and is likely to die without said abortion, assuming there is even anything close to alive inside them. And they're having a hard time because they almost carried their pregnancy to term and there were literally no other options at that point. Those people, everyone should feel bad for, not use them as examples of run of the mill abortions that are not even close to developed babies.

You said it perfectly.

Except I thought the fetuses were braised, not roasted? Have I been doing it wrong all these years? Dammit. I have to turn in my feminazi card, don't I?

No, but you do have to move into a Feminazi® re-education camp until such thinking can be corrected. Braised? What kind of savage are you? :-)

I didn't get the memo!!!!!! I hope they have nice sheets at this camp.


They're Feminazis, not Femisavages. They probably get them from Crate & Barrel.
 
2014-03-19 05:22:57 PM  
Ringshadow: Not so cool story, SIs.

*reads your story*
o_O
That, right there, is sexual harassment.
No, he didn't hit on you, but he made you feel uncomfortable at your job because of your sex.

What if you wanted to be a dude? (Not saying you do, just a "what if" that this guy clearly didn't think of) 

And marriage=/= kids. It's one of the reasons some people are motivated to do so, not all of them.

Also, he's cool with you having kids outside of marriage? (NTTAWWT; see bio) but WTF?!
 
2014-03-19 05:23:39 PM  

Osomatic: How do you explain censorship laws, laws against pornography, regulations about profanity on television, laws regulating sexuality, etc etc etc?


As neasr as I can tell, it has something to do with not wanting four year olds to sit around watching guys suck off goats in a tub full of pudding while sh*ttin themselves between My Little Pony and Maury.  I could be wrong.
 
2014-03-19 05:24:29 PM  

someonelse: bunner: someonelse: Duly noted. I'll bring it up at the next meeting. Feel free to add any further edicts about how you think females should behave.

Civilly.   :  )  Please feel free to continue to magically permutate observations into edicts.  It's edgy.

I don't know if it's quite as edgy as "older than Oprah's stretch marks."


Sure it is.  You have to learn to hold your input in higher seteem.
 
2014-03-19 05:27:44 PM  

bunner: Osomatic: How do you explain censorship laws, laws against pornography, regulations about profanity on television, laws regulating sexuality, etc etc etc?

As neasr as I can tell, it has something to do with not wanting four year olds to sit around watching guys suck off goats in a tub full of pudding while sh*ttin themselves between My Little Pony and Maury.  I could be wrong.


Or not wanting old guys watching 4 year olds suck off goats in a tub full of pudding while pooing, so that old guys feel motivated to make their own movies with children they know.
And no, I don't think you're wrong at all.
 
2014-03-19 05:29:25 PM  

ginandbacon: Sp women should risk poverty, their health, and often their sanity to repopulate the US? Are you insane? We are not broodmares.

Preschools exists to give parents a way to juggle young children and other responsibilities. And kids do just fine in them. Or are American children more delicate than they are in basically every other developed nation?

Paid maternity leave is very rare in the US. Only 12% of workers get paid family leave.

"in the 1990s, the US had the sixth-highest female labor force participation rate among the 22 nations tracked by the OECD. By 2010, the US ranked 17th." (I think we're actually 18th now.) Link.

If you want women to have more babies, make it easier for them. It really is that simple.


I don't have a problem making it easier, really. If I owned a business, I would make sure that women have the time off. As far as FMLA, it's a federal law, and if a business doesn't allow for it, there is a nice place for them to complain that can hurt them financially if they don't.

Satan's Bunny Slippers: Please explain to me why this factors into a woman's choice to have or not have kids? Not one person in here has said "no women should have children".


No, but IMO, the WRONG people are having kids. I'm not saying be a "broodmare" (as someone tried to say I was implying), but getting someone who will actually help and having a couple of kids is tons better than the local dumb jerk having 20 kids with five women, none of them knowing how to take precautions.

Satan's Bunny Slippers: Quite honestly, your statement makes me a little angry. Like you're implying that all women must have children for the good of the country or something.

Now, I'll hold off on my opinion of your statement until I get clarification. But it still raises the hackles.


It shouldn't. Don't read too much into it, but we need more of the RIGHT women to have kids. Last thing I want to see is another Honey Boo Boo.

TheKingOfMexico: As someone who *really* doesn't want children, this old chestnut is tiresome and ineffective. I have, what, 30 years left at most... after that, I couldn't care less what happens to society.

I do suspect, though, that "smart people" are going to be valued less and less over time anyway. That's one of many reasons why I don't want children -- I would feel guilty about leaving them with a future that I don't have faith in.


You never know how long you're going to live (you can at best guesstimate using your lineage, but even that can be way off). I can agree with your sentiment on the future looking bleak for smart people... but like the lottery, you can't win or lose if you don't play.
 
2014-03-19 05:30:45 PM  
The envelope is a funny thing.  When you push it too far, it's no longer an envelope.  Just a piece of shredded paper.  One can only deconstruct things until we're all sh*tting ourselves in a bathtub full of pudding.  Then you just sort sort of run out of things to say "nyah nyah" about and you start to feel silly.
 
2014-03-19 05:31:25 PM  

Unoriginal_Username: People shouldn't care who has kids or who doesn't. My only question for her is this. If you don't want kids why not get your tubes tied? And doctors shouldn't be able to ask why, just do it. Same for guys getting a vasectomy. The reasons don't matter. It's what they want.


I couldn't $ay. $eem$ $o $trange, in a free country like our$, that $omeone'$ going to avoid a medical procedure...
 
2014-03-19 05:37:12 PM  

CanisNoir: Nobody is talking about whether or not you or anyone else has sex, they're talking about taking responsability for your actions. It's not like the fact that sex can cause pregnancy is some huge big secret that you're surprised with when it happens. So, take care to wrap it up, or what ever other contraception methods you want, and odds are very good you won't have a problem. Sure, contraception doesn't work 100% of the time, guess what, life's not fair, it works enough that risking killing another human being because you're afraid you might be the .01% outlier is ludicrous.


Sure, I'm just saying that one of the ways that a woman can choose to take responsibility for the choice to have sex is to terminate an unwanted pregnancy as soon as possible when birth control fails, that's all.

That's acceptable to me and to most women.  Whether or not it is to you should only matter to you and your partner, or those who chose to accept that particular point of dogma.
 
2014-03-19 05:37:23 PM  
Good.  At least it'll spare us all her little twatwaffle offspring puking their self-absorbed narcissism all over my internet in a decade or two.
 
Ant [TotalFark]
2014-03-19 05:38:58 PM  

JackieRabbit: Why do they care? I know why: they know they made the wrong choice and they cannot stand that you made the right one.


There is no absolute right or wrong choice. Maybe you meant that they made the wrong choice for themselves.
 
2014-03-19 05:39:55 PM  

People_are_Idiots: I don't have a problem making it easier, really. If I owned a business, I would make sure that women have the time off. As far as FMLA, it's a federal law, and if a business doesn't allow for it, there is a nice place for them to complain that can hurt them financially if they don't.


Neither (unless I am misunderstanding what you would do) is PAID leave. I know, I had to explain to my employers that they had to let me take time of when my father was dying and the assholes called me every day to ask when I would be back. I finally told them "Sometime after he's dead."

PAID time off is entirely different and would be a huge factor for women thinking about starting a family.
 
2014-03-19 05:41:31 PM  
*time off
 
2014-03-19 05:49:35 PM  

blatz514: groppet: Raising my roomate is enough. Why she pissed on the kitchen floor when the bathroom was 10 feet away ill never know

Damn groppet, I can never get enough of your roommate stories.  You sure she isn't, like, 2 or 3 years old?


Sometimes I wonder myself. Still trying to figure out the reason why she stuffed four bagels in th couch. I'm sure alcohol was involved.
 
2014-03-19 05:57:51 PM  

groppet: blatz514: groppet: Raising my roomate is enough. Why she pissed on the kitchen floor when the bathroom was 10 feet away ill never know

Damn groppet, I can never get enough of your roommate stories.  You sure she isn't, like, 2 or 3 years old?

Sometimes I wonder myself. Still trying to figure out the reason why she stuffed four bagels in th couch. I'm sure alcohol was involved.


Couldn't let the cream cheese in the couch go to waste?
 
2014-03-19 06:23:31 PM  
I really don't have a problem with a gf or wife not wanting / or not ready to have a baby. I do have issue with them killing my child without asking if i might like to raise it. yes yes, i know...my body..blah blah blah...but ....1/2 of that babies genetic material comes from the father, who has been reduced to a monthly check at best, and a non person with no say at worst. I wonder how a woman would feel if she had to ask the man if he agreed to an abortion first? Oh yes, they would just do it anyway behind his back. I forgot. Interesting, isn't it, if i falcon punch a pregnant woman, and cause her to lose her baby, thats murder. If she does an abortion, (the same result) its ok? Hmmm. Odd society we live in.
 
2014-03-19 06:23:47 PM  

reprobate1125: I think that recognizing that you're too self-absorbed to have children is a good thing.

I'm there.


That's what I say. It's best to recognize this in yourself *BEFORE* you have children. Some people are simply not cut out to be parents, and a lot of misery in this world would be avoided it they didn't have any -- and incidentally didn't face pubic shiat over their decision. Of course, in this case, she announced it to the world and kind of invited the shiat, so...
 
2014-03-19 06:41:45 PM  

bunner: Osomatic: How do you explain censorship laws, laws against pornography, regulations about profanity on television, laws regulating sexuality, etc etc etc?

As neasr as I can tell, it has something to do with not wanting four year olds to sit around watching guys suck off goats in a tub full of pudding while sh*ttin themselves between My Little Pony and Maury.  I could be wrong.


And thank goodness we've had laws against sodomy to protect our four-year-olds from seeing that.  And just think of the dangers of letting adults buy magazines with pictures of naked people in them!  Good thing that was thoroughly outlawed for many years.
 
2014-03-19 07:03:39 PM  

Osomatic: And thank goodness we've had laws against sodomy to protect our four-year-olds from seeing that.  And just think of the dangers of letting adults buy magazines with pictures of naked people in them!  Good thing that was thoroughly outlawed for many years.


Inasmuch as I can see that the concept of slippery slopes somewhat eludes you, how about this?  How about we stop being hypocites about what we show and tell our childen about what constitutes ethics and dignity  and not tell them when they hit ~n years old that it's all malarkey and the only path to what we define as free adulthood is doing as you please when you please?
 
2014-03-19 07:04:24 PM  

udhq: CanisNoir: Nobody is talking about whether or not you or anyone else has sex, they're talking about taking responsability for your actions. It's not like the fact that sex can cause pregnancy is some huge big secret that you're surprised with when it happens. So, take care to wrap it up, or what ever other contraception methods you want, and odds are very good you won't have a problem. Sure, contraception doesn't work 100% of the time, guess what, life's not fair, it works enough that risking killing another human being because you're afraid you might be the .01% outlier is ludicrous.

Sure, I'm just saying that one of the ways that a woman can choose to take responsibility for the choice to have sex is to terminate an unwanted pregnancy as soon as possible when birth control fails, that's all.

That's acceptable to me and to most women.  Whether or not it is to you should only matter to you and your partner, or those who chose to accept that particular point of dogma.


Except the other side sees it as killing an innocent human being on purpose simply because a couple doesn't want to face the consequences of their actions. It's not just a pro-lifers right to get involved politically to stop it, it's their duty as moral human being.
 
2014-03-19 07:06:55 PM  
And as far as "nudes", I hate to break it to you , but wide open beavers have been going begging in the marketplace since before Kurt Vonnegut hit the exit ramp.  It's mostly mules, and baseball bats and four ways with farm animals.  And, you know?  Yeah, that should probably have some sort of widespead disemenation prevention.
 
2014-03-19 07:13:58 PM  

CanisNoir: udhq: I think you shouldn't presume your moral dogma has any place in anybody else's decision to have sex or not.

Nobody is talking about whether or not you or anyone else has sex, they're talking about taking responsability for your actions. It's not like the fact that sex can cause pregnancy is some huge big secret that you're surprised with when it happens. So, take care to wrap it up, or what ever other contraception methods you want, and odds are very good you won't have a problem. Sure, contraception doesn't work 100% of the time, guess what, life's not fair, it works enough that risking killing another human being because you're afraid you might be the .01% outlier is ludicrous.


WTF? So do you think birth control is or isn't risking human life? Or was this post supposed to be a thinly veiled promotion of abstinence till menopause?
 
2014-03-19 07:27:10 PM  

tlars699: Ringshadow: Not so cool story, SIs.

*reads your story*
o_O
That, right there, is sexual harassment.
No, he didn't hit on you, but he made you feel uncomfortable at your job because of your sex.

What if you wanted to be a dude? (Not saying you do, just a "what if" that this guy clearly didn't think of)

And marriage=/= kids. It's one of the reasons some people are motivated to do so, not all of them.

Also, he's cool with you having kids outside of marriage? (NTTAWWT; see bio) but WTF?!


I have no idea. The whole situation was just farking strange, which is pretty much how I feel every time someone has a meltdown about me being childfree. I did kinda wanna ask how many baby mammas he had.

/should have.
 
2014-03-19 07:28:42 PM  
Oh no, someone I don't want to breed as said she doesn't want to breed! This infuriates me!
 
2014-03-19 07:47:13 PM  
I`m not going to bother reading the thread.

You all have it wrong. You should have to have a good reason TO have a child, not the other way around. I see this cognitive dissonance as the cause of a lot of the issues people have with this topic.

Anyone who has already said this, high five.
 
2014-03-19 07:51:51 PM  
Never wanted kids and knew that from a very young age, about age 9, I'd guess.  Didn't play with baby dolls, couldn't see myself with a baby, etc.  Now, almost 30 years later, I do not regret my decision, I'm on my 2nd IUD (ouchie, painful at times) and am thankful to have a stepson-14 y/o as well as my friends' kids around.  I would have been a so so Mom and as it is, I as a mediocre stepmom at best, but at least I knew my limits from a young age and chose not to bring children into this world as I am not really interested in caring for them.  I can appreciate their value, but never wanted any of my own.  I do ok as a stepmom, though, the kid and I have a good relationship, even though I lack maternal instincts.  He'll continue to grow up right and go to college, he's a good kid and I love him :)
 
2014-03-19 07:52:33 PM  

ginandbacon: Neither (unless I am misunderstanding what you would do) is PAID leave. I know, I had to explain to my employers that they had to let me take time of when my father was dying and the assholes called me every day to ask when I would be back. I finally told them "Sometime after he's dead."

PAID time off is entirely different and would be a huge factor for women thinking about starting a family.


FMLA is sort of paid, again depending on the business. Even my mother's workplace (a miniscule second-hand store) used FMLA is the form of PTO (Paid-Time-Off), and she used all of it before she retired (injured off the job too). Any business that has PTO usually default to that when you take FMLA (My place of employment uses Sick Leave, then Annual). Now if you have more FMLA than your PTO... yes it is unpaid. But at the least you won't lose your job when you come back.

Of course, I'd prefer a nice package to include a nice maternity leave sum for those wishing kids. If I owned a business though...

profplump: People_are_Idiots: As far as "free" preschool, A kid taught right doesn't need preschool

Tell that to all the children killed by their caregivers before being old enough for school. Getting children into regular social contact with people outside their families is one of the best and cheapest ways to protect them from abuses of all sorts and should be done as early as possible. It doesn't have to be anything like "school" but we should not force children to live in isolation for the 6 most vulnerable years of their lives.


 Hmm, guess you didn't go outside and make friends on your street once in your life... And pre-school to me is unnecessary since I grew up on a street with kids. I started going into isolation more as a late-teener than when I was a kid, plus had a whole neighborhood of people with kids (it was a frickin' rainbow of fruity flavors). With supervision, a kid can grow up and be ready for kindergarten without the need of pre-school.

It's also worth noting that not every kid has the opportunity to be "taught right" by whoever happened to spawn them. We shouldn't punish children for having bad parents; we should ensure that all children are "taught right" even if their parents are unable or unwilling.

So you'd rather parents be forced to give up their kid to go to a place that is nothing more than daycare? Heck, DAYCARE would be cheaper than some of the preschool places we have here. And "free" in this country means another new subsidy that is practically useless to child-rearing.
 
2014-03-19 08:18:33 PM  

Bit'O'Gristle: Interesting, isn't it, if i falcon punch a pregnant woman, and cause her to lose her baby, thats murder. If she does an abortion, (the same result) its ok? Hmmm. Odd society we live in.


If I burn down your shed, it's called arson.

If you burn down your shed (the same result), it's called removing a dangerous eyesore.

Hmmm. Odd society we live in.
 
2014-03-19 08:32:19 PM  
Anyone understand that? All I got was "bla bla bla me me me bla bla bla me me me bla:.
 
2014-03-19 08:33:36 PM  

People_are_Idiots: FMLA is sort of paid, again depending on the business. Even my mother's workplace (a miniscule second-hand store) used FMLA is the form of PTO


38% of workers in this country have no PTO. None. And women are more likely than men to not have it. The average wage (in 2012) for workers with no paid time off was $10. Women are more likely to work in lower paying jobs and have less disposable income and less personal wealth. About 40% of births in this country are to unwed mothers.and about half of all mothers will be single parents at some point while they are raising children. Something like 80% work more than 30 hours a week. Roughly a quarter of the children in this country live below the poverty threshold. More than 41% of the homeless in the US are families with children.

Free preschool is free childcare. We don't have that. We're pretty much the only developed nation that doesn't. And we don't have paid maternity leave. Same thing.

Again. If you want more babies, make it easier to have them.
 
2014-03-19 08:44:52 PM  
Anti-abortion.
Anti-gay.
Anti-contraception.

There seems to be a theme there for those of a particular fundamental political persuasion. And that theme is, get popping those kids out.
 
2014-03-19 09:12:34 PM  
Wow.  Seems like with the big Pro-Life cheering section, Octomom would have much more public support.  Hell, people should send her money for being such a fine example of reproductivity.
 
2014-03-19 09:17:47 PM  

Osomatic: You - and a hell of a lot of other people on this thread - are missing the point of the article.  It wasn't that she was mad that people had reacted, it was that the reactions showed that the pro-lifers' motivation isn't life, it's control of women's sexuality.  Now, there's probably a counter-argument to be made there, but that's what she was getting at, not "boo hoo, they were mean to me."


She is whining. That entire last paragraph is nothing but "look at these horrible people and the horrible mean things they say."

This is despite the fact that all of the tweets less one (the one about the armpits) don't even remotely address her central thesis that these people want to enforce traditional gender roles on her with their stance on abortion. Most of them, as a matter of fact, take issue with the fact that she doesn't like kids, and don't even remotely touch on gender roles.

Censuring people because they don't like kids isn't specific to women - as this thread has made clear - and it isn't about gender. Men who don't like kids get the same sort of hate all the farking time. She isn't special in this.

All of this is aside from the fact that she spends the entirety of the rest of the article strawmanning up pro-life side.

Are there crazy pro-lifers out there? You bet your ass. But I know many people pro-life people that start from the fundamental principle that the highest duty of society is to protect those that cannot protect themselves. It isn't about enforcing gender roles and making women get in the kitchen and know there place - it is an explicit argument that as an adult, someone made the choice to have sex (leaving out rape, of course). The adult has made thus made their choice, and as an adult needs to act like an adult and do the responsible thing and provide for their offspring.

I don't feel that way - I am entirely agnostic on the abortion issue and frankly couldn't care one way or another. But I know principled pro-lifers and I know scumbag pro-lifers, just like I know good and bad pro-choice people.

But the twitter responses she posted had about fark all to do with enforcing gender roles. She obviously hates kids and - NEWS FLASH - as people's stories (and yes, whining and biatching) in this thread have revealed, men get it just as much as women do. Not liking kids is NOT considered a positive social value because society - particularly the American snowflake society - consider children to be THE most important part of life. Children are our future and our legacy, after all, young innocents who should be protected and encouraged by the community at all times (or so they say)

So yeah, she's whining. And she's projecting so hard she's entirely missed the point: people aren't jumping on her because they are tools of the patriarchy and want to force her to live barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen.

People are jumping on her because she is obviously a miserable farking person that whines about tangential feminist bullshiat like gender roles and oppression when she goes against the grain and tells the world that she really, really farking hates kids, and that rather than undergoing medical sterilization she's just going to terminate any child she does conceive because they are little monsters that won't leave her any time for her own life.

What did she think would happen when she called kids "monsters"? I'm betting exactly what she thought was going to happen is exactly what happened. Which gives her license to write a follow up clickbait article to the first clickbait article.

So yes: whiny attention whore trolling with clickbait. The only other thing I've gotten out of this is that I need to add her to my troll twitter account because she sure as hell can't take criticism worth a damn - anybody that criticizes her is obviously a tool of the patriarchy trying to send her back to 1850.
 
2014-03-19 09:54:32 PM  

nytmare: Anti-abortion.
Anti-gay.
Anti-contraception.

There seems to be a theme there for those of a particular fundamental political persuasion. And that theme is, get popping those kids out.


Right?  That urban democrat voter base isn't going to grow itself.
 
2014-03-19 10:12:29 PM  

ginandbacon: People_are_Idiots: FMLA is sort of paid, again depending on the business. Even my mother's workplace (a miniscule second-hand store) used FMLA is the form of PTO

38% of PART-TIME workers in this country have no PTO. None.


FTFY. Also note that 90% of full-time workers currently get some form of PTO (my mother's workplace offered PTO for vacation or sick usage (including FMLA), whereas my time off is seperated between sick and vacation). http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/paid-vacation-what-are-rights- 3 3485.html

And women are more likely than men to not have it.

[citation needed]. This one disagrees. http://money.cnn.com/2012/08/16/news/economy/paid-time-off/

"The breakdown by race and gender showed barely any gap between men and women, or whites and blacks -- an encouraging sign, said Heather Boushey, senior economist with the Center for American Progress."

Typically, those working with less income usually means less of an education.

Free preschool is free childcare. We don't have that. We're pretty much the only developed nation that doesn't. And we don't have paid maternity leave. Same thing.

Again, even my father agrees, why do you -need- pre-school? If you want daycare, there are many available and more affordable. You can even hire a babysitter (my mother had a babysitter for us, when my father and her were UNEMPLOYED), or use a relative for free (preferably one you trust). Let kids be kids, instill some respect and discipline, and send them to school.
 
2014-03-19 11:26:42 PM  

People_are_Idiots: ginandbacon: People_are_Idiots: FMLA is sort of paid, again depending on the business. Even my mother's workplace (a miniscule second-hand store) used FMLA is the form of PTO

38% of PART-TIME workers in this country have no PTO. None.

FTFY. Also note that 90% of full-time workers currently get some form of PTO (my mother's workplace offered PTO for vacation or sick usage (including FMLA), whereas my time off is seperated between sick and vacation). http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/paid-vacation-what-are-rights- 3 3485.html

And women are more likely than men to not have it.

[citation needed]. This one disagrees. http://money.cnn.com/2012/08/16/news/economy/paid-time-off/

"The breakdown by race and gender showed barely any gap between men and women, or whites and blacks -- an encouraging sign, said Heather Boushey, senior economist with the Center for American Progress."

Typically, those working with less income usually means less of an education.

Free preschool is free childcare. We don't have that. We're pretty much the only developed nation that doesn't. And we don't have paid maternity leave. Same thing.

Again, even my father agrees, why do you -need- pre-school? If you want daycare, there are many available and more affordable. You can even hire a babysitter (my mother had a babysitter for us, when my father and her were UNEMPLOYED), or use a relative for free (preferably one you trust). Let kids be kids, instill some respect and discipline, and send them to school.


The US ranks:
26th in preschool participation for 4-year-olds
24th in preschool participation for 3-year-olds
22nd in the typical age that children begin early childhood-education programs
15th in teacher-to-child ratio in early childhood-education programs
21st in total investment in early childhood education relative to country wealth
Among OECD countries.

"center-based day care programs modestly benefited middle-class children in early language and mathematics learning, youngsters from poor families experienced double those gains...the rate of death among children receiving care in private homes was 16 times that of children in child care centers."

68% of women in the labor force have some college or a college degree compared to 61% of men.

"...half of all first-time moms in the United States are able to take any paid leave after childbirth; and just a fifth of working women with young children receive leave with full pay..."

"Employer-provided medical care was available to 85 percent of full-time private industry workers in the United States in March 2013, the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics reported today. By contrast, only 24 percent of part-time workers had medical care benefits available. Access, or availability, also varied by employment size: 57 percent for all workers in small establishments (those with fewer than 100 employees), compared with 85 percent in medium and large establishments (those with 100 employees or more)...Paid sick leave benefits were also more commonly offered to full-time workers and those in medium and large establishments in private industry. Plans were offered to 74 percent of full-time workers and 24 percent of part-time workers. Similarly, 51 percent of workers in small establishments and 72 percent in medium and large establishments had access to a paid sick leave benefit."

Link, Link, Link, Link, Link.

With all due respect to you and your father, I am not particularly interested in policy based on anecdotes.
 
2014-03-19 11:36:09 PM  

Bit'O'Gristle: I really don't have a problem with a gf or wife not wanting / or not ready to have a baby. I do have issue with them killing my child without asking if i might like to raise it. yes yes, i know...my body..blah blah blah...but ....1/2 of that babies genetic material comes from the father, who has been reduced to a monthly check at best, and a non person with no say at worst. I wonder how a woman would feel if she had to ask the man if he agreed to an abortion first? Oh yes, they would just do it anyway behind his back. I forgot. Interesting, isn't it, if i falcon punch a pregnant woman, and cause her to lose her baby, thats murder. If she does an abortion, (the same result) its ok? Hmmm. Odd society we live in.


Sucks to be a man, doesn't it.  If only we could have the babies.  Maybe some day science will make that possible.  For the meantime we'll just have to try and and live with the burden that nature didn't give us a uterus.
 
2014-03-19 11:52:21 PM  
And we're starting to rank 1st in overall "hooray for me, f*ck you* socioeconomic policies.  Thank goodness Putin is  showing his ass to the world.  Maybe that will shift the world's attentive gaze from this plain as the balls on a tall dog fact that we are turning into a third world sh*thole with the few wiping their asses with the many while we fight over sh*t like this.


Affordable health care?  We h turning turning out 9th graders who can't even spell on their f*cking 700.00 phone keypad. Women's issues?  To be fair, there's not as many actual factual women's "issues" that need public attention, but the ones that do?  We do f*ck all about it.


We suck at everything.  Badly.  We're number one?  At what?  Criminals in expensive suits and German cars?  GAng violence?  fractured families?  Gullibility? Absurd news stories?  Ripping each other a new ass every time some mongoloid we voted into office tells us that "~n demographic is "ruining our fair nation! excoriate them!"?


If we can't see past the few dozen football games we're given to play with while cocksuckers inc. dismantles the ground under our feet, we deserve to suck.  It's all just little football matches.  Yeah, this one, too.  Now you go out and you pick up one of those flags and you bark a lot of venom at everybody not carrying that flag!  For democracy!
 
2014-03-19 11:56:04 PM  
Opera edits funny.   Sorry about that.  We're turning turning out
 
2014-03-19 11:56:19 PM  

Pincy: Bit'O'Gristle: I really don't have a problem with a gf or wife not wanting / or not ready to have a baby. I do have issue with them killing my child without asking if i might like to raise it. yes yes, i know...my body..blah blah blah...but ....1/2 of that babies genetic material comes from the father, who has been reduced to a monthly check at best, and a non person with no say at worst. I wonder how a woman would feel if she had to ask the man if he agreed to an abortion first? Oh yes, they would just do it anyway behind his back. I forgot. Interesting, isn't it, if i falcon punch a pregnant woman, and cause her to lose her baby, thats murder. If she does an abortion, (the same result) its ok? Hmmm. Odd society we live in.

Sucks to be a man, doesn't it.  If only we could have the babies.  Maybe some day science will make that possible.  For the meantime we'll just have to try and and live with the burden that nature didn't give us a uterus.


And if it is size that matters females still win in ovum vs sperm importance:

The human egg is the single largest cell in a woman's body.
It would take 15,000 sperm to equal the size of a single egg.

Not to mention the ovum contains things like organelles such as the mitochondria.
 
2014-03-19 11:58:27 PM  
If anybody still thinks that reproductive biology is a contest somebody wins and not an equation, that person is a clinical imbecile.
 
2014-03-20 12:55:43 AM  

Unoriginal_Username: People shouldn't care who has kids or who doesn't. My only question for her is this. If you don't want kids why not get your tubes tied? And doctors shouldn't be able to ask why, just do it. Same for guys getting a vasectomy. The reasons don't matter. It's what they want.


Because doctors are insanely resistant to doing that for women who haven't already got kids. Why, I don't know, but it's practically impossible to get them to agree to it. (Much more so than about giving men a vasectomy.)
 
2014-03-20 01:23:19 AM  

miscreant: Rapmaster2000: A hysterectomy costs about 10 grand with time off of work for recovery thrown in. I'd say you're out about $15k on average.

A tubal ligation is not a hysterectomy.


True, however, it's also not a vasectomy. From Wikipedia: "Tubal ligation is considered major surgery requiring the patient to undergo spinal anesthesia.... The corresponding male surgical sterilization procedure known as vasectomy is is considered minor surgery done with local anesthesia and typically done in an outpatient setting." And then goes on to say it's only 99% effective the first year, with decreasing effectiveness after that, AND when it fails, about a fifth of the resulting pregnancies are (very dangerous) ectopic pregnancies. Why would you put yourself at such a terrible risk when IUDs, hormonal, and barrier methods are just as effective and DON'T involve major surgery and spinal anesthesia?

Plus, since you still ovulate, you still have periods and PMS and all that jazz. And since you still have your uterus, unlike a hysterectomy, if you have endometriosis or uterine cysts, it does nothing to help. Control of one or more of these issues are the major reason a lot of women take the Pill in the first place. So a lot of women still can't go off the birth control they're on by getting this.

And for the pro-life (and the would-rather-prevent-than-abort) crowd... if you DO get pregnant after getting this, you HAVE to get an abortion, only with much more dangerous surgery, because the pregnancy is non-viable and endangers your life. So yeah, just a bad plan all around.

/never wants kids
//never getting this done either
///you can have my Pills when you pry them from my cold dead uterus!
 
2014-03-20 01:29:44 AM  

ornithopter: "Tubal ligation is considered major surgery requiring the patient to undergo spinal anesthesia.... The corresponding male surgical sterilization procedure known as vasectomy is is considered minor surgery done with local anesthesia and typically done in an outpatient setting."


My tubal ligation was done through my bellybutton and was an outpatient procedure. I was out in about five hours, and that's from walking into the clinic to wobbling out still coming out of sedation. I don't think I underwent spinal anesthesia but I was knocked out and intubated. I had novasure done at the same time, which is a type of uterine ablation.

What I can tell you is the bruising from my IV actually took longer to heal than the bruise stripe around the incision. I was sore for about a week and operating as normal inside of a month.

/the goddamn IV bruising lasted nearly two months
//went from a six day period with two to three heavy days to five days of spotting
 
2014-03-20 01:50:15 AM  

ornithopter: miscreant: Rapmaster2000: A hysterectomy costs about 10 grand with time off of work for recovery thrown in. I'd say you're out about $15k on average.

A tubal ligation is not a hysterectomy.

True, however, it's also not a vasectomy. From Wikipedia: "Tubal ligation is considered major surgery requiring the patient to undergo spinal anesthesia.... The corresponding male surgical sterilization procedure known as vasectomy is is considered minor surgery done with local anesthesia and typically done in an outpatient setting." And then goes on to say it's only 99% effective the first year, with decreasing effectiveness after that, AND when it fails, about a fifth of the resulting pregnancies are (very dangerous) ectopic pregnancies. Why would you put yourself at such a terrible risk when IUDs, hormonal, and barrier methods are just as effective and DON'T involve major surgery and spinal anesthesia?

Plus, since you still ovulate, you still have periods and PMS and all that jazz. And since you still have your uterus, unlike a hysterectomy, if you have endometriosis or uterine cysts, it does nothing to help. Control of one or more of these issues are the major reason a lot of women take the Pill in the first place. So a lot of women still can't go off the birth control they're on by getting this.

And for the pro-life (and the would-rather-prevent-than-abort) crowd... if you DO get pregnant after getting this, you HAVE to get an abortion, only with much more dangerous surgery, because the pregnancy is non-viable and endangers your life. So yeah, just a bad plan all around.

/never wants kids
//never getting this done either
///you can have my Pills when you pry them from my cold dead uterus!


I'm not an expert on the subject, and I agree there are a lot of good options for long-term birth control. But i disagree that barrier methods are as effective as tubal ligation.

Even with perfect use, condoms can break. They have something like a 1-2 % failure rate.

My understanding is tubal ligation is less common these days than implants like essure, which is a nonsurgical permanent birth control method performed as an outpatient procedure.
 
2014-03-20 01:51:10 AM  

ginandbacon: People_are_Idiots: ginandbacon: People_are_Idiots: FMLA is sort of paid, again depending on the business. Even my mother's workplace (a miniscule second-hand store) used FMLA is the form of PTO

38% of PART-TIME workers in this country have no PTO. None.

FTFY. Also note that 90% of full-time workers currently get some form of PTO (my mother's workplace offered PTO for vacation or sick usage (including FMLA), whereas my time off is seperated between sick and vacation). http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/paid-vacation-what-are-rights- 3 3485.html

And women are more likely than men to not have it.

[citation needed]. This one disagrees. http://money.cnn.com/2012/08/16/news/economy/paid-time-off/

"The breakdown by race and gender showed barely any gap between men and women, or whites and blacks -- an encouraging sign, said Heather Boushey, senior economist with the Center for American Progress."

Typically, those working with less income usually means less of an education.

Free preschool is free childcare. We don't have that. We're pretty much the only developed nation that doesn't. And we don't have paid maternity leave. Same thing.

Again, even my father agrees, why do you -need- pre-school? If you want daycare, there are many available and more affordable. You can even hire a babysitter (my mother had a babysitter for us, when my father and her were UNEMPLOYED), or use a relative for free (preferably one you trust). Let kids be kids, instill some respect and discipline, and send them to school.

The US ranks:
26th in preschool participation for 4-year-olds
24th in preschool participation for 3-year-olds
22nd in the typical age that children begin early childhood-education programs
15th in teacher-to-child ratio in early childhood-education programs
21st in total investment in early childhood education relative to country wealth
Among OECD countries.

"center-based day care programs modestly benefited middle-class children in early language and mathematics learning, youngsters from poor families experienced double those gains...the rate of death among children receiving care in private homes was 16 times that of children in child care centers."

68% of women in the labor force have some college or a college degree compared to 61% of men.

"...half of all first-time moms in the United States are able to take any paid leave after childbirth; and just a fifth of working women with young children receive leave with full pay..."

"Employer-provided medical care was available to 85 percent of full-time private industry workers in the United States in March 2013, the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics reported today. By contrast, only 24 percent of part-time workers had medical care benefits available. Access, or availability, also varied by employment size: 57 percent for all workers in small establishments (those with fewer than 100 employees), compared with 85 percent in medium and large establishments (those with 100 employees or more)...Paid sick leave benefits were also more commonly offered to full-time workers and those in medium and large establishments in private industry. Plans were offered to 74 percent of full-time workers and 24 percent of part-time workers. Similarly, 51 percent of workers in small establishments and 72 percent in medium and large establishments had access to a paid sick leave benefit."

Link, Link, Link, Link, Link.

With all due respect to you and your father, I am not particularly interested in policy based on anecdotes.


And this is why you are awesome.
 
2014-03-20 02:02:41 AM  

People_are_Idiots: ginandbacon: People_are_Idiots: FMLA is sort of paid, again depending on the business. Even my mother's workplace (a miniscule second-hand store) used FMLA is the form of PTO

38% of PART-TIME workers in this country have no PTO. None.

FTFY. Also note that 90% of full-time workers currently get some form of PTO (my mother's workplace offered PTO for vacation or sick usage (including FMLA), whereas my time off is seperated between sick and vacation). http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/paid-vacation-what-are-rights- 3 3485.html

And women are more likely than men to not have it.

[citation needed]. This one disagrees. http://money.cnn.com/2012/08/16/news/economy/paid-time-off/

"The breakdown by race and gender showed barely any gap between men and women, or whites and blacks -- an encouraging sign, said Heather Boushey, senior economist with the Center for American Progress."

Typically, those working with less income usually means less of an education.

Free preschool is free childcare. We don't have that. We're pretty much the only developed nation that doesn't. And we don't have paid maternity leave. Same thing.

Again, even my father agrees, why do you -need- pre-school? If you want daycare, there are many available and more affordable. You can even hire a babysitter (my mother had a babysitter for us, when my father and her were UNEMPLOYED), or use a relative for free (preferably one you trust). Let kids be kids, instill some respect and discipline, and send them to school.


I hesitate to engage with you, because i have seen some of your previous completely absurd claims (like water needs to be brought back to life).

But i will just point out that headstart, the free pre-school program for low income families, is the most effective federal program of all time in America. It provides nutrition, early intervention for detecting developmental delays. Language skills for those raised in a home without English.

It helps poor children get more of an equal chance in school, prevents them from being held back once they start elem school. It teaches social skills and has innumerable other benefits, I'm sure it would be easy to google the proven results.

The fact is, it saves tax-payers money in the long run, with less kids dropping out of school because they were so far behind when they started they could never catch up.

Do i think it should be mandatory? No. Do i think federally-funded pre-school has a proven track record for increasing chances of success later in life? Yes.
 
2014-03-20 02:13:46 AM  

o'really: And this is why you are awesome.


Well sheesh! Thank you.

Hey, is that cute pooch yours? That is one adorable pittie. What a great smile.
 
2014-03-20 03:07:15 AM  

ginandbacon: o'really: And this is why you are awesome.

Well sheesh! Thank you.

Hey, is that cute pooch yours? That is one adorable pittie. What a great smile.


Yes, that's my dopey dog.
 
2014-03-20 05:53:39 AM  

Random Internet Persona: Cerebral Ballsy: "You would make a great mother" is the one I always get.

No, I don't think so. I would be frazzled. I seem to be great with kids because I get to go home and recharge in between visits.

That or the other variation. "But you're so good with kids!"

Yeah, I am good with kids.  I'm good with kids because I only have to spend a finite amount of time around them, and then they go away.


My proof is listening to my sister cry on the phone regarding her crumbling sanity. I'm pretty sure I dodged a live round.
 
2014-03-20 06:51:34 AM  
I have to give the writer of tfa some credit for realising that being terminated as a fetus would be infinitely preferable to being raised by her. There are too many so-called parents who didn't show her level of insight.
 
2014-03-20 08:22:44 AM  

Ringshadow: Him: Next time I see you, I want to see you with a wedding ring on your finger and your belly like this. *pregnant belly arm gesture
Me: *RRRAAAAAGE*


Wow.  Just - wow.

That bastard deserves to have his lights punched out.
 
2014-03-20 09:43:32 AM  
dready zim (favorite: not IB) : I`m not going to bother reading the thread.

You all have it wrong.



Lelz

ur getting warmer

/earning that title
 
2014-03-20 02:03:53 PM  

bunner: Osomatic: And thank goodness we've had laws against sodomy to protect our four-year-olds from seeing that.  And just think of the dangers of letting adults buy magazines with pictures of naked people in them!  Good thing that was thoroughly outlawed for many years.

Inasmuch as I can see that the concept of slippery slopes somewhat eludes you, how about this?  How about we stop being hypocites about what we show and tell our childen about what constitutes ethics and dignity  and not tell them when they hit ~n years old that it's all malarkey and the only path to what we define as free adulthood is doing as you please when you please?


You know what, fine, whatever. I don't feel like continuing to try to catch up with the goalposts.  Frankly, I wish the world was like you say, a world where people don't care what other people do.  But my initial point was not to defend the article's thesis, it was just to note that the apparent common wisdom that her problem was that people responded to her article is incorrect.  She was saying something else entirely.  And that's all I was getting at.
 
2014-03-20 02:21:54 PM  

Osomatic: You know what, fine, whatever. I don't feel like continuing to try to catch up with the goalposts.


:  /

Frankly, I wish the world was like you say, a world where people don't care what other people do.  But my initial point was not to defend the article's thesis, it was just to note that the apparent common wisdom that her problem was that people responded to her article is incorrect.  She was saying something else entirely.  And that's all I was getting at.

'K.
 
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