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(The Morning Call)   Gun-rights advocates in PA can now sue municipalities that have local laws requiring people to report lost or stolen firearms   (mcall.com) divider line 140
    More: Stupid, National Rifle Association, Allentown, law requiring, gun regulation, Mayors Against Illegal Guns, municipalities, House Judiciary Committee, minimum sentence  
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1803 clicks; posted to Main » on 19 Mar 2014 at 11:57 AM (40 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-03-19 08:49:07 AM  
This is what pisses me off about gun advocates. Want a gun? Great, how about a modicum of personal responsibility and the concern for the larger community as a whole by submitting the information about your gun to a national registry?

No? Well fark you then, you selfish asshole.
 
2014-03-19 09:02:08 AM  
I cannot think of any good reason to not report a stolen firearm.

Unless, of course, you have something to hide.
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2014-03-19 09:03:22 AM  
According to the article, gun-rights advocates can not sue over illegal gun ordinances. That's the problem. They can only raise the issue as a defense in a criminal case. The bill would allow courts to examine such laws before charges are brought, so everybody knows ahead of time whether the ordinance is legal.
 
2014-03-19 09:05:18 AM  

ZAZ: According to the article, gun-rights advocates can not sue over illegal gun ordinances


Don't you mean unconstitutional gun ordinances?
 
2014-03-19 09:13:00 AM  

Marcus Aurelius: I cannot think of any good reason to not report a stolen firearm.

Unless, of course, you have something to hide.


I can't either.  What if it's used in a crime?

"Hey, this gun used in a robbery is registered to Some Farker!  Arrest him!  Oh wait, he reported it stolen three months ago.  Nevermind."
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2014-03-19 10:34:25 AM  
Marcus Aurelius

The rights here are statutory. Quoting one of the Supreme Court decisions:
Shortly after the ordinance was adopted, Appellants filed suit seeking a declaratory judgment that the ordinance was invalid and an injunction barring its enforcement. They alleged that the ordinance was invalid on its face and an ultra vires act because it was preempted by the Uniform Firearms Act (UFA), 18 Pa. C.S. §§ 6101-6126. The UFA provides that: "No county, municipality or township may in any manner regulate the lawful ownership, possession, transfer or transportation of firearms, ammunition or ammunition components when carried or transported for purposes not prohibited by the laws of this Commonwealth." 18 Pa. C.S. § 6120(a).
 
2014-03-19 11:59:08 AM  

vartian: This is what pisses me off about gun advocates. Want a gun? Great, how about a modicum of personal responsibility and the concern for the larger community as a whole by submitting the information about your gun to a national registry?

No? Well fark you then, you selfish asshole.


Your troll-fu is weak 2/10
 
2014-03-19 12:01:19 PM  
on the one hand I cant for the life of me understand why anyone would NOT want to report the gun lost or stolen unless they have something to hide

on the other hand, why the hell should it be anyone's business if I dont report something lost or stolen?
 
2014-03-19 12:01:28 PM  

Sgt Otter: Marcus Aurelius: I cannot think of any good reason to not report a stolen firearm.

Unless, of course, you have something to hide.

I can't either.  What if it's used in a crime?

"Hey, this gun used in a robbery is registered to Some Farker!  Arrest him!  Oh wait, he reported it stolen three months ago.  Nevermind."


So when you find guns while your fishing your better off just throwing them back.
 
GBB
2014-03-19 12:02:04 PM  
3.bp.blogspot.com
 
2014-03-19 12:02:10 PM  

vartian: This is what pisses me off about gun advocates.


This is what pisses me off about non-gun-advocates:  They really think that the NRA speaks for all of us.  They don't, and that hurts our case a lot when we have valid concerns.  It's like the "the Bill of Rights is the only permit free men need" people.  They don't seem to realize that their crazy talk about why they should keep their guns is what scares non-gun people into wanting take them away from  all of us.
 
2014-03-19 12:03:48 PM  

Marcus Aurelius: I cannot think of any good reason to not report a stolen firearm.

Unless, of course, you have something to hide.



On the other hand, such laws can make people guilty of a crime simply by being the victim of theft.  A person who was unaware of the law or unaware of the theft (for whatever reason) could end up being a victim twice: once by the initial theft, and again through the legal system.
 
2014-03-19 12:03:51 PM  
Mmm mmm, love dem second mendments.
 
GBB
2014-03-19 12:04:05 PM  

Sgt Otter: Marcus Aurelius: I cannot think of any good reason to not report a stolen firearm.

Unless, of course, you have something to hide.

I can't either.  What if it's used in a crime?

"Hey, this gun used in a robbery is registered to Some Farker!  Arrest him!  Oh wait, he reported it stolen three months ago.  Nevermind."


Which is why they throw a fit over mandatory registration.  They don't want to register it, and they don't want to report it when it's lost or stolen.
 
2014-03-19 12:05:29 PM  
Lancaster Mayor Rick Gray, the state chairman of
"The bill passed by the House Judiciary Committee [Tuesday] morning is a bald-faced attempt by the gun lobby to bully cities and boroughs into repealing local public safety ordinances," Gray said. "The state Legislature has failed to pass even the most basic, common-sense gun regulations like a lost and stolen handgun reporting requirement, and now some legislators want to punish communities for doing it ourselves. Mayors will fight back against these attempts to overrule our local authority and efforts to keep our communities safe."


I live in Lancaster. Whatever you do, don't forget to pay the parking meter or move your car on a street cleaning day. The tickets are outrageous.

//I met Mayor Gray. Nice man. Nice ties. Still had to pay my parking tickets...
 
2014-03-19 12:07:35 PM  
Maybe if there weren't politicians and advocacy groups publicly stating that is the first step towards their goal of uniform confiscation, most gun owners would no longer have an issue with it.
 
2014-03-19 12:07:44 PM  
Who the hell DOESN'T REPORT A STOLEN FIREARM ONCE YOU NOTICE IT IS STOLEN!
 
2014-03-19 12:08:08 PM  

vartian: This is what pisses me off about gun advocates. Want a gun? Great, how about a modicum of personal responsibility and the concern for the larger community as a whole by submitting the information about your gun to a national registry?

No? Well fark you then, you selfish asshole.


If the constitution doesn't specifically describe a computerised firearms registry, then it's illegal, drr drr drr the founding fathers also wanted me to own an RPG7
 
2014-03-19 12:08:16 PM  

ZAZ: Marcus Aurelius

The rights here are statutory. Quoting one of the Supreme Court decisions: Shortly after the ordinance was adopted, Appellants filed suit seeking a declaratory judgment that the ordinance was invalid and an injunction barring its enforcement. They alleged that the ordinance was invalid on its face and an ultra vires act because it was preempted by the Uniform Firearms Act (UFA), 18 Pa. C.S. §§ 6101-6126. The UFA provides that: "No county, municipality or township may in any manner regulate the lawful ownership, possession, transfer or transportation of firearms, ammunition or ammunition components when carried or transported for purposes not prohibited by the laws of this Commonwealth." 18 Pa. C.S. § 6120(a).



I'm pretty sure theft doesn't count as "lawful" transfer.
 
2014-03-19 12:08:50 PM  

vartian: This is what pisses me off about gun advocates. Want a gun? Great, how about a modicum of personal responsibility and the concern for the larger community as a whole by submitting the information about your gun to a national registry?

No? Well fark you then, you selfish asshole.


(Forgot to quote who I was referring to the first try.  Preview is my friend)
Maybe if there weren't politicians and advocacy groups publicly stating that is the first step towards their goal of uniform confiscation, most gun owners would no longer have an issue with it.
 
2014-03-19 12:09:03 PM  

Evil Mackerel: So when you find guns while your fishing your better off just throwing them back.


Depends on whether they're in-season, above the size limit, and whether you've got the right permit.
 
2014-03-19 12:09:27 PM  

Farkage: Maybe if there weren't politicians and advocacy groups publicly stating that is the first step towards their goal of uniform confiscation, most gun owners would no longer have an issue with it.


Who has state this?
 
2014-03-19 12:09:34 PM  

meat0918: Who the hell DOESN'T REPORT A STOLEN FIREARM ONCE YOU NOTICE IT IS STOLEN!


This.

As a gun owner myself, that would be the first thing I do once I realize the gun is missing.
 
2014-03-19 12:09:42 PM  
This seems fine.  If there is a record of sale for the gun and it's used in the commission of a crime, the buyer goes to court.  I'm sorry you didn't want to report it lost or stolen.
 
2014-03-19 12:10:39 PM  

kvinesknows: on the one hand I cant for the life of me understand why anyone would NOT want to report the gun lost or stolen unless they have something to hide

on the other hand, why the hell should it be anyone's business if I dont report something lost or stolen?


Like your children...
 
2014-03-19 12:12:08 PM  
To sum up for Farkers who didn't bother to read the article:  PA has a law that says only the state may pass firearms laws, not local municipalities.  A bunch of cities went and passed firearms laws anyways.  A bunch of people pointed out that what the cities did was in fact illegal and filed lawsuits to strike down the laws, but the court smoked crack and told them to pound sand... because reasons.  So the legislature, not happy at having their will clearly defied by the court flipped them the bird and wrote a new law allowing the lawsuits to go through and the illegal laws to be struck down.

Clear?
 
2014-03-19 12:12:10 PM  

vartian: This is what pisses me off about gun advocates. Want a gun? Great, how about a modicum of personal responsibility and the concern for the larger community as a whole by submitting the information about your gun to a national registry?

No? Well fark you then, you selfish asshole.


Which national registry are you pissed off over gun advocates not submitting information about their gun to?
 
2014-03-19 12:12:56 PM  
So if I lose my .357 magnum in PA, and some little kid finds it, and shoots out his eye, it's cool? 'Cause it shouldn't be. If I can't be responsible enough to keep up with my gun, then I shouldn't be allowed to own a gun. Losing a gun is the very definition of irresponsible gun ownership. And if you think losing a gun and then not telling anybody is responsible gun ownership, then you need a farking dictionary.


/I am a gun owner.
 
2014-03-19 12:13:04 PM  
I don't want anybody knowing my gun was stolen because then I'd be a sitting duck.
 
2014-03-19 12:14:03 PM  

meat0918: Who the hell DOESN'T REPORT A STOLEN FIREARM ONCE YOU NOTICE IT IS STOLEN!


Well, if you RTFA, you'll find out that the vast majority of stolen guns are illegal in the first place:

In reality, missing gun laws do not work, said Allentown City Councilman Daryl Hendricks, a former city police captain. Most people who have a gun stolen probably stole it or obtained it in another illegal way, he said.
"There were many instances we'd come in contact with guns that had been stolen and they were not reported," Hendricks said. "It's unfortunate, but I don't think that law has that many teeth in it."

Lehigh County District Attorney said in 2012, when a similar state legislation was proposed, that he agreed the reporting laws are ineffective, and he had instructed Allentown police not to enforce the city's ordinance.


So you end up with a law that can only serve to trip up those who unknowingly had a gun stolen or didn't know they had to report it (not that I wouldn't report it).
 
2014-03-19 12:14:49 PM  

Sgt Otter: Marcus Aurelius: I cannot think of any good reason to not report a stolen firearm.

Unless, of course, you have something to hide.

I can't either.  What if it's used in a crime?

"Hey, this gun used in a robbery is registered to Some Farker!  Arrest him!  Oh wait, he reported it stolen three months ago.  Nevermind."


Yeah I don't think these people have thought it through properly.
 
2014-03-19 12:15:25 PM  

No Such Agency: drr drr drr the founding fathers also wanted me to own an RPG7


Actually, had such weapons existed at the time, they probably would have.  The thinking in late 18th century America was strongly against professional standing armies & figured national defense would be handled by a militia, called up as needed.  The Founding Fathers would probably have been aghast at the enormity of our current military.

/ obviously a Navy can't be run this way, even in the 18th century; farmers might have owned muskets, but no private farmer would own a warship, which is why the Navy is specifically authorized in the Constitution (Article 1, Section 8).  That section says nothing about an Army though.
 
2014-03-19 12:15:45 PM  

kvinesknows: on the one hand I cant for the life of me understand why anyone would NOT want to report the gun lost or stolen unless they have something to hide

on the other hand, why the hell should it be anyone's business if I dont report something lost or stolen?


because it's not your laundry out of the laundryroom, or your bike from outside the station, it's a gun. a thing designed to kill. the odds are overwhelmingly that it's been stolen with nefarious intent.

if you want to own something with the potential to be incredibly dangerous, surely it's a fair tradeoff that certain responsibilities come along with that
 
2014-03-19 12:16:43 PM  

Weidbrewer: This is what pisses me off about non-gun-advocates:  They really think that the NRA speaks for all of us.  They don't, and that hurts our case a lot when we have valid concerns.  It's like the "the Bill of Rights is the only permit free men need" people.  They don't seem to realize that their crazy talk about why they should keep their guns is what scares non-gun people into wanting take them away from  all of us.


This.

I have gun owning friends who actually think Ted Nugent is helping "the cause". I keep trying to explain that to a person on the fence about gun Ted Nugent is a walking poster for why all gun should be confiscated and crushed. His threatening talk and crazy eyes act just make all gun owners look crazy.

I sort of feel the same way about the NRA these days.
 
2014-03-19 12:16:55 PM  
Don't want to report a lost or stolen gun? Fine, but if it turns up having been used in a crime you're going to be arrested and held for a couple days until we get shiat sorted out.

Seriously, why would you not report a lost or stolen firearm?
 
2014-03-19 12:17:41 PM  

meat0918: Who the hell DOESN'T REPORT A STOLEN FIREARM ONCE YOU NOTICE IT IS STOLEN!



EXACTLY.

Report it as soon as humanly possible. You want to be on record before  it gets used for something bad.
 
2014-03-19 12:17:53 PM  

jshine: That section says nothing about an Army though.


/ err, nothing about a permanent standing Army, I should say.  In fact, that is specifically prohibited: "To raise and support armies, but no appropriation of money to that use shall be for a longer term than two years."
 
2014-03-19 12:17:53 PM  

ZAZ: Marcus Aurelius

The rights here are statutory. ...[snip]... by the laws of this Commonwealth." 18 Pa. C.S. § 6120(a).


Pretty much this. I live in PA (and own guns), and the way I understand it is that any gun laws have to be passed by the state legislature and they trump all local laws. Something about the way the Commonwealth is set up, I guess. Occasionally Philadelphia will pass some crazy gun laws and break everybody's balls until it gets smacked down by the state Supreme Court. I don't pay much attention to any of that stuff because all my guns are legal and locked away safely.
 
2014-03-19 12:18:08 PM  
 
2014-03-19 12:18:52 PM  
We need guns to protect us from the evil deer

i.chzbgr.com
 
2014-03-19 12:18:53 PM  

jaylectricity: I don't want anybody knowing my gun was stolen because then I'd be a sitting duck.



Sounds like SOMEBODY is a big old pussy who only has one gun.

Real 'muricans have dozens of guns for exactly this reason.
 
2014-03-19 12:19:00 PM  
Municipalities shouldn't be passing those laws. There should be a statewide law if anything mandating the reporting of stolen guns. If the state legislature doesn't want that, I have no problem with them passing legislation to give standing to people to sue over what would seem to be unallowable municipal laws.
 
2014-03-19 12:19:11 PM  
Weidbrewer: "They really think that the NRA speaks for all of us"

Many of them don't, actually. Many people frustrated with the NRA leadership know the overwhelming majority of NRA *members* have no problems with the policies the leadership fights tooth and nail against. The critics are just drawing a line between the reasonable folks who donate money to the only cause that will stand up for *any* of their gun rights and the ridiculous nonsense spewed by the people that receive that money, in *their* pursuit of unqualified *expansions* to those rights.

It's actually a source of considerable frustration that 70-80% of the voting public can be in general agreement on a raft of such important issues, but the "leadership" can't or won't allow compromise (generally for their own political and financial reasons).

And one would normally expect to see a caveat in there, suggesting that the leadership on "both sides" is the issue. But if you look at what proposed gun regulations *used* to look like, and what gun regulations *currently* being debated look like -- there's been an objective capitulation by those who are advocating new regulation(s) and an objective escalation by those who are arguing against them.

One used to hear arguments along the lines of "your proposal of X, Y, Z is bad/ineffective -- we should do A, B, C" As the pro-regulation side adopted those suggestions, the arguments have shifted to "A, B and C are unconstitutional and we can't have *any* new regulations *and* we should dramatically expand the gun rights of Americans in the following ways that no appreciably-large segment of the voting population had ever asked for..." (e.g. more-permissive concealed- and open-carry laws.)
 
2014-03-19 12:19:52 PM  

allylloyd: kvinesknows: on the one hand I cant for the life of me understand why anyone would NOT want to report the gun lost or stolen unless they have something to hide

on the other hand, why the hell should it be anyone's business if I dont report something lost or stolen?

Like your children...


my children.. my choice
 
2014-03-19 12:20:17 PM  

meat0918: Farkage: Maybe if there weren't politicians and advocacy groups publicly stating that is the first step towards their goal of uniform confiscation, most gun owners would no longer have an issue with it.

Who has state this?


Well Feinstein said in '94

"If I could have gotten 51 votes in the Senate of the United States for an outright ban, picking up every one of them . . . 'Mr. and Mrs. America, turn 'em all in,' I would have done it."

Does that count?
 
2014-03-19 12:21:33 PM  

Lady J: kvinesknows: on the one hand I cant for the life of me understand why anyone would NOT want to report the gun lost or stolen unless they have something to hide

on the other hand, why the hell should it be anyone's business if I dont report something lost or stolen?

because it's not your laundry out of the laundryroom, or your bike from outside the station, it's a gun. a thing designed to kill. the odds are overwhelmingly that it's been stolen with nefarious intent.

if you want to own something with the potential to be incredibly dangerous, surely it's a fair tradeoff that certain responsibilities come along with that


so every single kitchen knife I lose needs to be reported?  and all my pointy sticks?
 
2014-03-19 12:21:46 PM  

SpectroBoy: Ted Nugent is a walking poster for why all gun should be confiscated and crushed. His threatening talk and crazy eyes act just make all gun owners look crazy.


Um, it's not just Nugent that makes all gun owners look crazy.

4.bp.blogspot.com
 
2014-03-19 12:21:53 PM  
 
2014-03-19 12:22:06 PM  

meat0918: Who the hell DOESN'T REPORT A STOLEN FIREARM ONCE YOU NOTICE IT IS STOLEN!


That last part is the important part.  Once you notice it.  Say you inherited grandpa's old sidearm from his days as a cop.  You didn't really know what to do with it at the time, you locked it away and never thought of it again.  One day you get robbed and you fill out a report about your TV, your stereo, etc, because those are the things you noticed are missing.  A while later, a cop comes knocking on your door and says, "Your gun was used to kill a man."  "What gu-  Oh shiat."

I'm not saying it's a great reason, and yes, in a perfect world, you'd know where your guns are all the time - but there are loopholes.  Also, see statement above about the crux of the matter being that the local authorities not having the power to pass said laws.
 
2014-03-19 12:22:49 PM  

Click Click D'oh: To sum up for Farkers who didn't bother to read the article:  PA has a law that says only the state may pass firearms laws, not local municipalities.  A bunch of cities went and passed firearms laws anyways.  A bunch of people pointed out that what the cities did was in fact illegal and filed lawsuits to strike down the laws, but the court smoked crack and told them to pound sand... because reasons.  So the legislature, not happy at having their will clearly defied by the court flipped them the bird and wrote a new law allowing the lawsuits to go through and the illegal laws to be struck down.

Clear?


Basically Supremacy clauses and state's rights.

Apparently they are bad for gun control and good for voting laws and abortion.  I have that about right?

Everyone may continue the gun grabber derpitude though.
 
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