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(Fox News)   Arizona conservationists spend $150,000 to airlift 31 bighorn sheep onto new reservation with thriving mountain lion population. Guess what happens   (foxnews.com) divider line 116
    More: Dumbass, Fish Department, western U.S., wildlife officials, Center for Biological Diversity, conservation, exact science  
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9169 clicks; posted to Main » on 19 Mar 2014 at 12:37 AM (25 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-03-19 10:47:17 AM

HeadLever: Delay: The North American cougar, the Florida panther, and the Costa Rican cougar are all listed under Appendix I of the Endangered Species Act. Other mountain lion species are listed in Appendix II.

That only applies to the eastern populations and in Florida.  Cougars are not on the endangered species list here in the Western US and they are listed overall as "Least Concern" by the IUCN.  Around here they are considered typically as a big game animal and are hunted.  Their populations are generally managed in accordance with their prey species (deer and elk).


Here are the 2014 laws on hunting them in AZ if you're interested. 1 bag limit per calender year except in certain areas where it's 3. 

http://www.azgfd.gov/regs/mainregs.pdf
 
2014-03-19 10:48:08 AM
Stupid broken browser, thanks for the double post.
 
2014-03-19 11:00:07 AM

MadMattressMack: The limits and hunting information on mountain lions in AZ is on page 60 if you're interested:

http://www.azgfd.gov/regs/mainregs.pdf


Looks to be pretty similar to Idaho's way of managing them.  Does Arizona allow hound hunting?
 
2014-03-19 11:03:39 AM

HeadLever: MadMattressMack: The limits and hunting information on mountain lions in AZ is on page 60 if you're interested:

http://www.azgfd.gov/regs/mainregs.pdf

Looks to be pretty similar to Idaho's way of managing them.  Does Arizona allow hound hunting?


I think so. At least, it's being advertised:

http://www.arizonahunting.net/mountainlion.htm

img.fark.net
 
2014-03-19 11:04:08 AM
"..Bighorn sheep, a gregarious, herd-forming species, once thrived in large numbers across the western U.S. until their population dropped dramatically over the past 100 years -- for reasons biologists continue to study, such as disease, fires or loss of water source...."

or maybe due to theMOUNTAIN LIONS!?!
 
2014-03-19 11:09:26 AM

MadMattressMack: I think so. At least, it's being advertised


Yeah, I also see a section of the regulations that you posted where the Arizona Houndsmen have a standing reward for information on anyone killing a jaguar.
 
2014-03-19 11:26:09 AM

MadMattressMack: It specifically says "not listed". The only things close is the Florida and Eastern cougars. If any of those cats are showing up in the Arizona mountains then it would mean humans are introducing them and would be a far bigger story than what's linked.

Instead, they're very, very common. I've even had a couple of dogs killed by one.


I stand corrected. When I entered cougar it came up, I didn't realize it meant a sub-species. Here in California they are illegal for hunting as a specially protected species. Apparently that was due to a state proposition that voters passed rather than any real danger to their continued. So, I guess voters can be misled.

Mountain lions show up from time to time in my neighborhood. The schools issue warnings.
 
2014-03-19 11:31:34 AM

Delay: Here in California they are illegal for hunting as a specially protected species. Apparently that was due to a state proposition that voters passed rather than any real danger to their continued. So, I guess voters can be misled.


Yeah, Californians have some sort of strange love affair with mountain lions.  So much so that they fired your President of the California Fish and Game Commission when he came to Idaho on a successful mountain lion hunt a few years ago.

We in Idaho are still scratching our heads over that one.
 
2014-03-19 11:36:39 AM

M-G: Maybe they should hire these guys....


Please take one internets from the box. You can choose whichever one you like, but please take only one.

/Mornin' Sam.
/Mornin' Ralph.
 
2014-03-19 11:51:47 AM

Canton: wildcardjack: Canton: wildcardjack: You get happy mountain lions.

Wait, you mean they weren't supposed to eat all of them? Well, figure out a cheaper way to get them in, and plant cameras.

They only ate like, half of them.

/Natural selection at work

Unfortunately it was planned by a Creationist who thought the animals should go two by two, and all the males were eaten.

Thought it was seven by seven for the "clean" animals. Still a derpy strategy for polygamous ungulates, though.

/Pretty sure one healthy ram could service a herd of 30 ewes
//If they were into it
///Hope they sent a backup ram


Polygamous Ungulates is the name of my new Mormon death metal band.


/actually, I believe I know enough people to accomplish this IRL
 
2014-03-19 11:59:12 AM

HeadLever: Delay: Here in California they are illegal for hunting as a specially protected species. Apparently that was due to a state proposition that voters passed rather than any real danger to their continued. So, I guess voters can be misled.

Yeah, Californians have some sort of strange love affair with mountain lions.  So much so that they fired your President of the California Fish and Game Commission when he came to Idaho on a successful mountain lion hunt a few years ago.

We in Idaho are still scratching our heads over that one.


There used to be a "Coastside Rodeo" in Pacifica (on the coast here in the Bay Area) which was held in late summer. A lot of barbecued ribs were sold and some bones always were left lying  around. Mountain lions would come in and eat the left overs. They didn't seem that rare to me.
 
2014-03-19 12:35:47 PM

Delay: MadMattressMack: It specifically says "not listed". The only things close is the Florida and Eastern cougars. If any of those cats are showing up in the Arizona mountains then it would mean humans are introducing them and would be a far bigger story than what's linked.

Instead, they're very, very common. I've even had a couple of dogs killed by one.

I stand corrected. When I entered cougar it came up, I didn't realize it meant a sub-species. Here in California they are illegal for hunting as a specially protected species. Apparently that was due to a state proposition that voters passed rather than any real danger to their continued. So, I guess voters can be misled.

Mountain lions show up from time to time in my neighborhood. The schools issue warnings.


Where I live now they aren't very common (we only have coyotes in suburbia hell), but I used to live the TX hill country and they were all over the place. I found some big cat paw prints and said "that's neat". One day I came home to a couple of dead dogs with more paw prints. I never saw the lion and it's probably still out there somewhere. It probably had been coming around because we had goats. The only thing I ever saw was a bobcat and that was running across a road while driving.

i don't ever trophy hunt, so I didn't know the laws on killing big cats. After that happened I brushed up on it.
 
2014-03-19 02:39:47 PM
Wonder how much of that $600000 is ending up in some politicians  pocket.
 
2014-03-19 04:03:50 PM

johnperkins: I don't see what the problem is...


There isn't. Bighorn sheep are notorious for croaking when they're introduced into an area. A 50% loss, when they know that most of it is due to mountain lions, is fairly normal. Mostly they die due to disease, and they seem to be pretty fragile when it comes to contracting whatever weird virus or disease is going around in wild animals. Montana lost almost all of the bighorn sheep they introduced into several areas of the state, most of them to disease. And yet some of them made it, and they're now reproducing and populating places that they haven't been in many years. It's called "nature"--it doesn't always work the precise way we want it to work. Mostly because we've already farked up the natural order of things so thoroughly that the people who try to manage "nature" have to guess when they try to restore anything. There is no "balance of nature"--it's a permanent fluctuation, and all wildlife people can do is try to stick an extra factor into the equation and see what happens. It's not a computer. It's a living system that changes all the time.

wildlife officials say the conservation effort is not a failure and expect the projected $600,000, three-year plan to result in greater numbers of bighorns in an area where they once co-existed with mountain lions for centuries.

The sheep used to live there, and they should be able to live there now, mountain lions or no mountain lions. Unless of course we've farked up their habitat so badly that they just can't--but I assume that the wildlife people looked at that before they introduced them. If all the sheep had been hit by cars because they're trying to live in downtown Tucson, maybe there'd be something to biatch about.

This is the planet you all wanted --sanitized, homogenized, and organized for your convenience. You don't get to complain about how wild animals can't make it here NOW. If that idea is too messy for your fine attitudes, go to a zoo and look at the nice, organized, captive animals.

Frank N Stein: /hunters are the best conservationists.


Sure, as long as you love an artificial system of only the four or five animals you like to kill.  MANAGED for your convenience. Some people have other ideas about what constitutes "conservation." And never the twain shall meet.
 
2014-03-19 04:05:40 PM

HeadLever: Yeah, Californians have some sort of strange love affair with mountain lions.


They're big kitty cats... Mankind has long worshipped cats (see ancient Egypt or modern Internet lolcats)... They're graceful, fuzzy killing machines... What's not to love??

/Hell, Roy continues to love that damn tiger even after it almost killed him!
 
2014-03-19 06:29:06 PM

TheMysticS: Canton: wildcardjack: Canton: wildcardjack: You get happy mountain lions.

Wait, you mean they weren't supposed to eat all of them? Well, figure out a cheaper way to get them in, and plant cameras.

They only ate like, half of them.

/Natural selection at work

Unfortunately it was planned by a Creationist who thought the animals should go two by two, and all the males were eaten.

Thought it was seven by seven for the "clean" animals. Still a derpy strategy for polygamous ungulates, though.

/Pretty sure one healthy ram could service a herd of 30 ewes
//If they were into it
///Hope they sent a backup ram

Polygamous Ungulates is the name of my new Mormon death metal band.


/actually, I believe I know enough people to accomplish this IRL


If and when you accomplish this, I absolutely want to hear about it.

/The concept alone...
 
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