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(NFL)   NFL scout or ultimate troll says Manziel a better passer than Russell Wilson. Also, Clowney will be a bust and Brandin Cooks isn't a big play guy. Yes, he said all of those things   (nfl.com ) divider line
    More: Dumbass, Johnny Manziel, NFL, Jadeveon Clowney, Little Guy, NFL scouts, wide receiver, TCU Horned Frogs, Eastern Illinois  
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929 clicks; posted to Sports » on 18 Mar 2014 at 10:33 AM (2 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-03-18 09:14:45 AM  
Wilson was taken in the third round.  i understand his height was a key factor why he fell.  but scout's criticism of wilson is hardly new.

wilson seems like a better comparison to flutie than manziel.  manziel has much more speed than flutie and wilson is closer in height to flutie than manziel.

off course wilson is a much better leader and has none of the personal issues manziel has.
 
2014-03-18 09:25:13 AM  
"The scout says"?

Why don't you tell me bout the mystery scout?
I wanna know about the mystery scout
 
2014-03-18 10:07:46 AM  
I missed the memo where it is now blasphemy to suggest that a top college prospect could be a better passer than Russell Wilso.
 
2014-03-18 10:41:03 AM  
Most of those scouts/analists are paid by agents to promote/demote various players in their rankings
 
2014-03-18 10:43:25 AM  
Ah yes. Draft predictions.

This is the same 'industry' where Mel Kiper makes millions.

Let that sink in a minute.

I could be blindfolded and use my dick as a pointer at the television to make my picks and have about the same level of success as these fools.
 
2014-03-18 10:45:46 AM  
The vapors, I has them.
 
2014-03-18 10:46:26 AM  

kronicfeld: I missed the memo where it is now blasphemy to suggest that a top college prospect could be a better passer than Russell Wilso.


Obviously you are not aware that by beating Peyton in the Super Bowl he became better than him. He absorbed his powers, along with the powers of every QB Manning ever beat.

Manziel a better passer than Wilson? Why the fark not? Unless you live in Seattle or became a life long fan after the Super Bowl, you know Wilson is nothing special as a passer. He's got an average NFL arm, and it's probably the least valuable think about him. Personally, I don't think Manziel's arm is that great either but hey this guy has watched a lot more tape than me.

Clowney a bust? Yeah I wouldn't bet my house against that happening. Would not be the first time a freakish athlete flamed out in the NFL. He also seems to have a real Fark you attitude towards authority so that doesn't really guarantee success either.

It's also a lot easier to make big plays in college against North West State Tech than it will be in the NFL. Making big plays in college doesn't mean you're going to be a big play guy in the NFL.

So basically "master troll" means "having perfectly reasonable subjective opinions Subby disagrees with".
 
2014-03-18 10:46:57 AM  
And he's right on each count. Also this:

» On UCF QB Blake Bortles: "He's actually more of a runner. They ran him a lot and roll him out. He's raw. If somebody takes him and thinks he's going to be their franchise guy, they're going to get burned."

Are you paying attention, Rick Smith?
 
2014-03-18 10:48:13 AM  
Clowney will be the next Brian Bosworth.
 
2014-03-18 10:52:14 AM  

Lost Thought 00: Most of those scouts/analists are paid by agents to promote/demote various players in their rankings


I'm not totally convinced, unless you've got some evidence.  Scouts work for teams, and if they're making public statements that can affect draft order I would have to suspect that the GMs would be VERY displeased to find any of their scouts telling tales out of school unless the team wants the media to get a hold of something their scout says.

I would suspect a loose lipped scout would have a limited shelf life in the NFL (or any professional sport).
 
2014-03-18 10:54:30 AM  
I can't say I disagree with any of that.  Russel Wilson is a game manager (a very good one at that).  Clowney, meh.
 
2014-03-18 11:01:24 AM  

Mercutio74: I would suspect a loose lipped scout would have a limited shelf life in the NFL (or any professional sport).


That's probably why the scout elected to remain anonymous.
 
2014-03-18 11:03:43 AM  
Who to draft, hmm -- Blake Bortles' girlfriend...

static03.mediaite.com

Or AJ McCarron's girlfriend....

 blog.zap2it.com
 
2014-03-18 11:03:59 AM  

Mercutio74: Lost Thought 00: Most of those scouts/analists are paid by agents to promote/demote various players in their rankings

I'm not totally convinced, unless you've got some evidence.  Scouts work for teams, and if they're making public statements that can affect draft order I would have to suspect that the GMs would be VERY displeased to find any of their scouts telling tales out of school unless the team wants the media to get a hold of something their scout says.

I would suspect a loose lipped scout would have a limited shelf life in the NFL (or any professional sport).


I was more referring to Mel Kiper and Todd McShay themselves, who got into hot water a year or two back for getting caught accepting money to change their evaluations of players. I can only assume that the practice is not limited to TV analysts.
 
2014-03-18 11:04:40 AM  
He's right, you know.

/would like to see Manziel succeed for the hilarity
//Clowney is going to be a massive bust
 
2014-03-18 11:05:23 AM  

Badmoodman: Who to draft, hmm -- Blake Bortles' girlfriend...

Or AJ McCarron's girlfriend....



They're both kind of mannish, but AJ's has less plastic.
 
2014-03-18 11:07:35 AM  
To suggest that 3 quarterbacks are going in the top 5 is absolutely batsh*t insane

And people wonder why the same retarded teams seem to draft in the top 10 every year...
 
2014-03-18 11:08:51 AM  

xaks: Ah yes. Draft predictions.

This is the same 'industry' where Mel Kiper makes millions.

Let that sink in a minute.

I could be blindfolded and use my dick as a pointer at the television to make my picks and have about the same level of success as these fools.


Jerry?
 
2014-03-18 11:09:06 AM  

SlothB77: Wilson was taken in the third round.  i understand his height was a key factor why he fell.  but scout's criticism of wilson is hardly new.

wilson seems like a better comparison to flutie than manziel.  manziel has much more speed than flutie and wilson is closer in height to flutie than manziel.

off course wilson is a much better leader and has none of the personal issues manziel has.


Wilson has always reminded of the old videos of Fran Tarkenton.  Wilson's scrambles are all about buying time to complete bombs.  Manziel reminds of an old school qb too.  I get a Rodger "the Dodger" Staubach vibe watching Manziel play.  Whether that translates into the pros is any ones guess.
 
2014-03-18 11:11:31 AM  
Are any of those things unthinkable?  Subby may disagree, but those opinions aren't really all that outrageous.
 
2014-03-18 11:12:26 AM  

Badmoodman: Who to draft, hmm -- Blake Bortles' girlfriend...

[static03.mediaite.com image 426x640]

Or AJ McCarron's girlfriend....

 [blog.zap2it.com image 520x636]


I think Bortles girlfriend is more of a bust than Manziel.
 
2014-03-18 11:14:11 AM  

Mercutio74: Lost Thought 00: Most of those scouts/analists are paid by agents to promote/demote various players in their rankings

I'm not totally convinced, unless you've got some evidence.  Scouts work for teams, and if they're making public statements that can affect draft order I would have to suspect that the GMs would be VERY displeased to find any of their scouts telling tales out of school unless the team wants the media to get a hold of something their scout says.

I would suspect a loose lipped scout would have a limited shelf life in the NFL (or any professional sport).


Funny how no one has mentioned this "scout"'s name.
 
2014-03-18 11:17:14 AM  
I don't see where he says Clowney will be a bust.

Some of these nuggets are interesting but a lot of them (comments on Barr, ASJ, Cooks, Carr, Borland and Roby) are more or less conventional wisdom these days.
 
2014-03-18 11:19:26 AM  
Wilson is a bit underrated as a passer.  He's not going to set the world on fire, but when he needs to, he can throw some pretty hot passes.  Watch him in the Chicago game last season, or against NE.  His game against SF early on and in the championship also featured some passes where he threaded the needle.  Hell, he had some awesome throws in the SF game they lost.  He just plays on a run-first team, so he hasn't had to throw for sixty gazzilion yards a game.
 
2014-03-18 11:20:00 AM  

Kevin Lomax: know Wilson is nothing special as a passer. He's got an average NFL arm


Ok...

Wilson has a much better arm than people give him credit for.  He just doesn't throw the ball a lot so he doesn't put up big yardage numbers.  His passer rating, average yards per pass and pass/td ratio are all well above average.  Top 5 if I'm not mistaken.

I haven't seen enough of Manziel to make a comparison, but from what I have seen he seems to be very accurate.  I recall being surprised by some of his passes.
 
2014-03-18 11:20:51 AM  
"Here comes the pressure, a guy breaks open, and he finds the receiver. Does he have a gun? No. But he doesn't have a bad arm at all."

I didn't know the scouts used the same worthless dialog that ESPN uses.

I just want to know if Manziel has a motor, will show up to play, and has the heart to play physical in the National Football League
 
2014-03-18 11:21:25 AM  

Kevin Lomax: kronicfeld: I missed the memo where it is now blasphemy to suggest that a top college prospect could be a better passer than Russell Wilso.

Obviously you are not aware that by beating Peyton in the Super Bowl he became better than him. He absorbed his powers, along with the powers of every QB Manning ever beat.

www.weapons-universe.com


Approves
 
2014-03-18 11:26:11 AM  

stappawho: Kevin Lomax: know Wilson is nothing special as a passer. He's got an average NFL arm

Ok...

Wilson has a much better arm than people give him credit for.  He just doesn't throw the ball a lot so he doesn't put up big yardage numbers.  His passer rating, average yards per pass and pass/td ratio are all well above average.  Top 5 if I'm not mistaken.

I haven't seen enough of Manziel to make a comparison, but from what I have seen he seems to be very accurate.  I recall being surprised by some of his passes.


All of which has nothing to do with his "arm". He has good stats because he plays on a good team, obviously the best team this year. He doesn't have a top 5 arm in the NFL. Doesn't mean he isn't a good QB. In fact some of the guys with better arms (Cutler comes to mind) are worse QBs.

So, you live in Seattle or became a life long fan after the Super Bowl?
 
2014-03-18 11:29:52 AM  

smerfnablin: To suggest that 3 quarterbacks are going in the top 5 is absolutely batsh*t insane

And people wonder why the same retarded teams seem to draft in the top 10 every year...


I was wondering if that's ever happened before, so I goofed around on Wikipedia a while:
-The 2012 class had 2 QB's going first and second (Luck and RG3), and Ryan Tannehill was fairly close behind at #8.
-The legendary 1983 class only had 1 picked in the top 5 (Elway).
-The 1998 Draft famously produced Peyton Manning and Ryan Leaf with the first two rounds, but no other QB was picked in the first round. But...
-Aha! Apparently there was a draft with three QB's going in the top 5: the 1999 Draft saw Tim Couch, Donovan McNabb, and Akili Smith go 1-2-3.  Ah yes, a good year for quarterbacks indeed.
 
2014-03-18 11:32:34 AM  

Kevin Lomax: stappawho: Kevin Lomax: know Wilson is nothing special as a passer. He's got an average NFL arm

Ok...

Wilson has a much better arm than people give him credit for.  He just doesn't throw the ball a lot so he doesn't put up big yardage numbers.  His passer rating, average yards per pass and pass/td ratio are all well above average.  Top 5 if I'm not mistaken.

I haven't seen enough of Manziel to make a comparison, but from what I have seen he seems to be very accurate.  I recall being surprised by some of his passes.

All of which has nothing to do with his "arm". He has good stats because he plays on a good team, obviously the best team this year. He doesn't have a top 5 arm in the NFL. Doesn't mean he isn't a good QB. In fact some of the guys with better arms (Cutler comes to mind) are worse QBs.

So, you live in Seattle or became a life long fan after the Super Bowl?


What have you seen specifically that makes you think he has an average arm?
 
2014-03-18 11:33:27 AM  

Rapmaster2000: I didn't know the scouts used the same worthless dialog that ESPN uses


The whole thing sounds like something Stephen Smith or Skip Bayless would come up with.
 
2014-03-18 11:36:28 AM  

Badmoodman: Who to draft, hmm -- Blake Bortles' girlfriend...

Or AJ McCarron's girlfriend....



[Whynotboth.jpg]
 
2014-03-18 11:38:07 AM  

Kevin Lomax: stappawho: Kevin Lomax: know Wilson is nothing special as a passer. He's got an average NFL arm

Ok...

Wilson has a much better arm than people give him credit for.  He just doesn't throw the ball a lot so he doesn't put up big yardage numbers.  His passer rating, average yards per pass and pass/td ratio are all well above average.  Top 5 if I'm not mistaken.

I haven't seen enough of Manziel to make a comparison, but from what I have seen he seems to be very accurate.  I recall being surprised by some of his passes.

All of which has nothing to do with his "arm". He has good stats because he plays on a good team, obviously the best team this year. He doesn't have a top 5 arm in the NFL. Doesn't mean he isn't a good QB. In fact some of the guys with better arms (Cutler comes to mind) are worse QBs.

So, you live in Seattle or became a life long fan after the Super Bowl?


Also, you said "nothing special as a passer " which is way off.  He is arguably top 5 as a passer.  This is behind one of the worst pass blocking o-lines in the NFL.

Put him in Detroit or Chicago and I would agree he wouldn't have a ring, being a team sport and all, but he would be putting up number similar and possibly better than Stafford and Cutler.
 
2014-03-18 11:42:59 AM  

grinding_journalist: Mercutio74: I would suspect a loose lipped scout would have a limited shelf life in the NFL (or any professional sport).

That's probably why the scout elected to remain anonymous.


It's still a hell of a risk for the scout.  Assuming that he feeds enough misinformation to the reporter so that his GM can't simply compare the content of the article to his scouting staff's opinions of the draft class to make an ID, it's still a weird risk to take.  You don't get any profile out of it because you have to be anonymous.  Maybe the reporter bribed you, but at that point the whole thing is so unethical (and probably in breach of several contracts) why would anyone trust the information?

I work in an industry where you have to sign a lot of confidentiality contracts and even end up having to protect content from leaking into the public sphere.  I'm not saying that it's impossible for someone who's spent the better part of their lives building up a reputation as a quality asset to an organization would risk that, but it's pretty farking rare.  Especially where there's no detectable upside for the anonymous scout.
 
2014-03-18 11:45:26 AM  

Mercutio74: It's still a hell of a risk for the scout


Not if the "scout" is working for ESPN.
 
2014-03-18 11:48:38 AM  
That's not much of a claim. Wilson is a mediocre passer
 
2014-03-18 11:50:36 AM  

Marcus Aurelius: Not if the "scout" is working for ESPN.


Absolutely true.  But in my book, that makes you an "analyst".

For what it's worth, I think you've hit on the most likely scenario.  The paper is either paying a retired scout (who they refer to as a scout just like you call ex-presidents "President ______") or a scout who's between teams but is keeping current on his area of expertise.
 
2014-03-18 11:51:25 AM  

doubled99: That's not much of a claim. Wilson is a mediocre passer


But more importantly, one more piece of evidence that Defence Wins Championships.
 
2014-03-18 11:55:16 AM  
A guy with freakish athletic skills but questionable work ethic who admitted to taking plays off because he was worried about getting injured before his big payday. Yeah, no way he could ever be a bust in the NFL. I would say the odds are better that Clowney will be a bust than that he will be an All-Pro caliber player.
 
2014-03-18 12:09:38 PM  

Arkanaut: smerfnablin: To suggest that 3 quarterbacks are going in the top 5 is absolutely batsh*t insane

And people wonder why the same retarded teams seem to draft in the top 10 every year...

I was wondering if that's ever happened before, so I goofed around on Wikipedia a while:
-The 2012 class had 2 QB's going first and second (Luck and RG3), and Ryan Tannehill was fairly close behind at #8.
-The legendary 1983 class only had 1 picked in the top 5 (Elway).
-The 1998 Draft famously produced Peyton Manning and Ryan Leaf with the first two rounds, but no other QB was picked in the first round. But...
-Aha! Apparently there was a draft with three QB's going in the top 5: the 1999 Draft saw Tim Couch, Donovan McNabb, and Akili Smith go 1-2-3.  Ah yes, a good year for quarterbacks indeed.


Holy crap...

2011 was pretty retarded in my book...

Jake Locker, Christian Ponder and Blaine Gabbert were all taken between picks 5-10 in the 1st round

What the PHARK were teams thinking who drafted with those picks?

"Well, the #3 quartback available is probably better than the #1 offensive lineman or the #1 cornerback or the #1 defensive lineman"

Ya, this should work out well for us!
 
2014-03-18 12:11:53 PM  
Wilson tends to have some accuracy issues when he's out of rythm. I've noticed that some games he has to settle in for the first drive or two and until he does his passes will sail on him. That said, he's got a hell of an arm and is as accurate as anyone when he's in the flow of the game. I'd say that definitely puts him above average, and the stats tend to bear that out. Certainly not the best in the league, but a Top 10 guy when it comes to efficiency in the passing game.
 
2014-03-18 12:14:50 PM  
Not a Seahawks fan.  Wilson is a good QB regardless of his "lack of arm".  Yes, he won a SB partly (or largely) because of an '85 Bears defense.  But, he knows his role, quiet, subtle, no mistakes, And then boom. Does sound like someone said above... Roger and Fran. So he is a leader. Me thinks.  And Johnny Football does have that skill (maybe), but that  "me first" attitude is a problem.
 
2014-03-18 12:14:58 PM  
Manziel seems to be in the "gunslinger" mold. Like Favre with crazy legs. I'm not sure I'd be super excited if my team drafted him. Nor would I hate the pick. He'd be a "wait and see" kind of guy in my book.
 
2014-03-18 12:16:40 PM  

Mercutio74: doubled99: That's not much of a claim. Wilson is a mediocre passer

But more importantly, one more piece of evidence that Defence Wins Championships.



Defense ... there is a joke to make here, but you are probably posting on a smartphone so all is forgiven
 
2014-03-18 12:16:46 PM  

smerfnablin: Arkanaut: smerfnablin: To suggest that 3 quarterbacks are going in the top 5 is absolutely batsh*t insane

And people wonder why the same retarded teams seem to draft in the top 10 every year...

I was wondering if that's ever happened before, so I goofed around on Wikipedia a while:
-The 2012 class had 2 QB's going first and second (Luck and RG3), and Ryan Tannehill was fairly close behind at #8.
-The legendary 1983 class only had 1 picked in the top 5 (Elway).
-The 1998 Draft famously produced Peyton Manning and Ryan Leaf with the first two rounds, but no other QB was picked in the first round. But...
-Aha! Apparently there was a draft with three QB's going in the top 5: the 1999 Draft saw Tim Couch, Donovan McNabb, and Akili Smith go 1-2-3.  Ah yes, a good year for quarterbacks indeed.

Holy crap...

2011 was pretty retarded in my book...

Jake Locker, Christian Ponder and Blaine Gabbert were all taken between picks 5-10 in the 1st round

What the PHARK were teams thinking who drafted with those picks?

"Well, the #3 quartback available is probably better than the #1 offensive lineman or the #1 cornerback or the #1 defensive lineman"

Ya, this should work out well for us!


As the league has become more QB driven, teams are more desperate to find 'that guy.' As such, they are reaching more and more for guys that are undertalented. The change in the rookie wage scale has helped quite a bit as well. Now you take a guy in the first round, and afford him to bust.
 
2014-03-18 12:17:32 PM  

stappawho: He is arguably top 5 as a passer.


Nope.  Brady, Brees, Manning, Rodgers, Rivers.  Off the top of my head, I just named 5 better passers than him.  He isn't even arguable as a top 5 passer.
 
2014-03-18 12:18:11 PM  

Shame Us: Wilson tends to have some accuracy issues when he's out of rythm. I've noticed that some games he has to settle in for the first drive or two and until he does his passes will sail on him. That said, he's got a hell of an arm and is as accurate as anyone when he's in the flow of the game. I'd say that definitely puts him above average, and the stats tend to bear that out. Certainly not the best in the league, but a Top 10 guy when it comes to efficiency in the passing game.


Wilson's "lack of arm strength" (whatever that means) is offset by his smarts.  He made more than one team pay when they blitzed him, and he knows when to look for the deep ball.  Yes, yes, the defense, but he's also the reason that Seattle led the league last year in the "big plays" of 20 yards or more.
 
2014-03-18 12:18:40 PM  
Kevin Lomax

Obviously you are not aware that by beating Peyton in the Super Bowl he became better than him. He absorbed his powers, along with the powers of every QB Manning ever beat.


That is exactly how it works.

I agree, Russell arm is good but not great, his greatest attributes for the game are not physical but mental.
 
2014-03-18 12:20:27 PM  
Wow...

http://www.nfl.com/draft/2014/mock-drafts

The fact that 3 analysts have Manziel going to the Raiders with the #5 pick is just disturbing...
 
2014-03-18 12:22:29 PM  
The scout is likely right.

Wilson is a good game manager, but not the greatest passer. His arm is NFL-average. However, he is smart and doesn't make many mistakes and he manages the game well, so it works for him. Without their defense, no way Seattle wins the SB. However, Wilson didn't pull a Rex and blow it by throwing really stupid passes, either. He plays to his strengths, which makes him good.

Just because a QB won a super bowl doesn't make him the second coming of Peyton. See: Brad Johnson, Trent Dilfer.
 
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