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(Forbes)   Millennials are using cash far more often than credit cards in the wake of recent security breaches and the realization that they don't make enough money to have credit cards in the first place   (forbes.com) divider line 211
    More: Obvious, security breaches, Target, credit cards, digital native  
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2148 clicks; posted to Main » on 18 Mar 2014 at 7:05 AM (31 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



211 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2014-03-18 07:07:00 AM  
Also, those pennies really add up!
llnw.wbez.org
 
2014-03-18 07:07:40 AM  
Good on them :) Maybe we can stop biatching about them so much and praise them for the GOOD things they do?

/Born in '80
//part millennnial, part gen X, 100% Crazy!
 
2014-03-18 07:08:27 AM  
I have a feeling after tax day, there will be a lot more cash trading hands.
 
2014-03-18 07:08:58 AM  
Good.

Grown ups carry cash.

I'm proud of you.
 
2014-03-18 07:09:25 AM  
Euthanizing BabyBoomers helps to free up that medical burden too
 
2014-03-18 07:10:01 AM  
A servant's economy built for serfs.
 
2014-03-18 07:11:18 AM  
False: You don't need money to have credit cards. 
False: Millennials not yet smart enough to understand high cost of credit.
 
2014-03-18 07:12:39 AM  
While it's still early in the thread I'm going to go ahead and submit a

Who Gives A shiat?

and hope the conversation ends.
 
2014-03-18 07:13:08 AM  

macross87: Euthanizing BabyBoomers helps to free up that medical burden too


We should have aborted you
 
2014-03-18 07:13:13 AM  

The Muthaship: Good.

Grown ups carry cash.

I'm proud of you.


I have a coworker trying to date me who doesn't use cash, even small amounts.

/I won't even be your friend if you're one of those annoying-ass people
 
2014-03-18 07:16:24 AM  

pottie: macross87: Euthanizing BabyBoomers helps to free up that medical burden too

We should have aborted you


You did. I'm the cremated fetus in a display case.
 
2014-03-18 07:18:28 AM  
Boomer, here.  (Hold your fire!)  I fell into a deep financial hole a few years back.  Had plenty of help with the digging, but had to crawl out on my own.  I decided that the first order of business was to retire all credit card debts and stick with the pay-as-you-go plan.  I made it, but discovered that when you don't buy stuff on credit, your credit ratings suffer!
 
2014-03-18 07:19:45 AM  

pottie: macross87: Euthanizing BabyBoomers helps to free up that medical burden too

We should have aborted you


Why not both?
/oblig
`
 
2014-03-18 07:21:08 AM  

mafiageek1980: Maybe we can stop biatching about them so much and praise them for the GOOD things they do?


If you need to see the disaster to understand the risk, you're a Darwin award waiting to happen.

The ability to learn, especially from other's mistakes, makes them smarter than a Baby Boomer, so kudos there I guess.  But the lack of foresight doesn't quite make them smarter than my cat.

Well, I'll take progress where I can get it.
 
2014-03-18 07:21:34 AM  

macross87: Euthanizing BabyBoomers helps to free up that medical burden too


Ha, that's so funny cause, like, yeah, when your society is gutted by a pack of weasels after it noticed how stupid it was to dump every single aspect of it's economy, culture and personal data into a bunch of gymnastic 1's and 0's and sh*t started falling over,  you kill all the old people, dude!  For like, success!   Our society will be roses and gold sh*tting unicorns when we kill all the old people!  Then, like, when we get old and sh*t, which, of course we won't, like, the cool young people can throw us away!  Woo.


img.myconfinedspace.com
 
2014-03-18 07:24:13 AM  

SoupJohnB: Boomer, here.  (Hold your fire!)  I fell into a deep financial hole a few years back.  Had plenty of help with the digging, but had to crawl out on my own.  I decided that the first order of business was to retire all credit card debts and stick with the pay-as-you-go plan.  I made it, but discovered that when you don't buy stuff on credit, your credit ratings suffer!


True, true.  Also, if you don't buy stuff on credit, you don't need to worry about your credit rating. 

I do have credit cards, but I don't really use them too much.  And I'm happy!  People should try it. 

http://vimeo.com/50044167
 
2014-03-18 07:24:44 AM  
Isn't the millennium only 14 years old?

/I don't really understand how that whole generation naming thing works
 
2014-03-18 07:28:01 AM  
What mom and dad wont let them use the credit card anymore?
 
2014-03-18 07:28:15 AM  

bunner: macross87: Euthanizing BabyBoomers helps to free up that medical burden too

Ha, that's so funny cause, like, yeah, when your society is gutted by a pack of weasels after it noticed how stupid it was to dump every single aspect of it's economy, culture and personal data into a bunch of gymnastic 1's and 0's and sh*t started falling over,  you kill all the old people, dude!  For like, success!   Our society will be roses and gold sh*tting unicorns when we kill all the old people!  Then, like, when we get old and sh*t, which, of course we won't, like, the cool young people can throw us away!  Woo.


Laughoutloud

You only say that because you're old.
 
2014-03-18 07:28:17 AM  

Cerebral Ballsy: True, true.  Also, if you don't buy stuff on credit, you don't need to worry about your credit rating.


Not quite true.  Whether you agree with it or not rates like homeowner's insurance and car insurance are often partially tied to your credit.

Also, many employers check credit before hiring...even if your job has nothing to do with money. They use it to see if you are a person of your word (by keeping your financial obligations).
 
2014-03-18 07:28:22 AM  

illannoyin: Isn't the millennium only 14 years old?

/I don't really understand how that whole generation naming thing works


It doesn't.   It's called "Loyalty Marketing" and it's a dandy divisive tool to keep the suckers blaming ~n demographic for their problems.  And buying stuff you sell them.  And we eat it with a spoon cause we need people to blame for sh*t and little folders to keep them in.
 
2014-03-18 07:28:26 AM  

illannoyin: Isn't the millennium only 14 years old?

/I don't really understand how that whole generation naming thing works


New Math.
 
2014-03-18 07:29:01 AM  
forum.maplewoodonline.com
 
2014-03-18 07:30:07 AM  

macross87: You only say that because you're old.


*Clicks "expected smirky response" counter*  Thanks for visiting earth. Please see the proctor for your grade.  :  )
 
2014-03-18 07:31:02 AM  
"Millennials are using cash far more often than credit cards "

That's not what the article says. If this was happening or about to happen, the CC companies would be falling over themselves to implement the chip technology the rest of the planet uses because they vote for people that aren't owned by lobbyists.
 
2014-03-18 07:31:25 AM  
I'm a millennial. I've always preferred to use cash (easier to keep track of how much you're spending) and, while I have a credit card, I have literally never used it.

I'm actually meaning to just to build up credit, but I was out of work for a bit until recently and was more focused on not spending my money than how I was spending it.
 
2014-03-18 07:32:09 AM  
ITT:

media.giphy.com
 
2014-03-18 07:33:56 AM  

illannoyin: Isn't the millennium only 14 years old?

/I don't really understand how that whole generation naming thing works


I thought Gen X refered to youth dealing with the aftermath of WW2 .
 
2014-03-18 07:34:55 AM  
Well. This thread is just a train wreck.
 
2014-03-18 07:34:59 AM  

HindiDiscoMonster: If I get robbed of my cash, how do I get it back?


Life has risk.

Being a grown man isn't for everyone.
 
2014-03-18 07:35:19 AM  

Cerebral Ballsy: The Muthaship: Good.

Grown ups carry cash.

I'm proud of you.

I have a coworker trying to date me who doesn't use cash, even small amounts.

/I won't even be your friend if you're one of those annoying-ass people


Like cash, hate change.

credit cards mean not walking around with change.  I'll tip the ice cream man .98 cents to avoid jingle pockets.

/never go into combat with change.
 
2014-03-18 07:35:43 AM  
I have one credit card, I use it as much as I can and I keep it paid off.  I never accumulate interest charges and I reap the points benefits this card offers, I can use it online easier then hard currency or a regular bank card.  I hear people complain that they can't use a credit card because they can't mentally map the association between their checking account and their credit card balance.  They are idiots, mouth-breathing idiots.  It takes all kinds in the world I guess.  I still like to collect coins though, pennies particularly.  I keep them between my butt cheeks for a few days and then fill up those take a penny leave a penny dishes, you are welcome.

Cerebral Ballsy: True, true. Also, if you don't buy stuff on credit, you don't need to worry about your credit rating.


This cunning plan only works if you're part of the Renters and leasers for life crew!  Or your are ridiculously rich or miserly, or both.
 
2014-03-18 07:35:58 AM  

Cerebral Ballsy: The Muthaship: Good.

Grown ups carry cash.

I'm proud of you.

I have a coworker trying to date me who doesn't use cash, even small amounts.

/I won't even be your friend if you're one of those annoying-ass people


That's a super cool thing to be really upset about.

Personally, I use a card for everything.  Even super-small purchases.  Everything auto-pays onto the card, including utilities where possible.

At the end of the month, I have an accurate history of exactly where my money was spent and I pay off the card.

I have an exact history down to the penny of my spending habits, down to how often I grab fast food at lunch or how much I've spent on shoes in the last 5 years.  It definitely helps when trying to find places where I could slim down the budget instead of looking at an empty wallet at the end of the week and trying to remember where it all disappeared to or sorting through a handful of crumpled receipts.

I've never been in debt, other than my mortgage.  I've never even take a car loan.  But because of my solid history with my card, I was in the top-tier for credit rating when I applied for that mortgage.

I have never in my life carried a balance over on my card or paid a single cent in interest on those charges.

tl;dr You're ridiculous for judging someone using a card without knowing the details.

/born in 82.  Technically a millennial, I guess.
 
2014-03-18 07:36:35 AM  

reprobate1125: Cerebral Ballsy: True, true.  Also, if you don't buy stuff on credit, you don't need to worry about your credit rating.

Not quite true.  Whether you agree with it or not rates like homeowner's insurance and car insurance are often partially tied to your credit.

Also, many employers check credit before hiring...even if your job has nothing to do with money. They use it to see if you are a person of your word (by keeping your financial obligations).


While I can understand a couple of jobs being interested in that sort of thing (such as in the financial or security sectors), in general the idea of needing solid financial footing just to get a job that doesn't involve flipping burgers should piss people off.  Doesn't that seem like an incredibly easy way to trap people in a vicious cycle?
 
2014-03-18 07:36:48 AM  
If you don't care about being tracked, Google Wallet.  It's basically a declining balance card you can use anywhere that takes MC.  If it gets stolen, no harm no foul, the limit of liability is the balance.

If you do care about being tracked, cash.
 
2014-03-18 07:36:56 AM  
No mention of the CARD Act of 2009.  Basically, the card issuers aren't allowed to shove $3000-limit cards to 18-year-olds with no verifiable income (and this free T-Shirt!), like they did when I was a college freshman in the 90s.   While a lot of kids got burned with CC debts, it was nice that I had many years of credit history by the time I was out of school.

Debit cards really weren't a common thing in the mid-90s.  Now... it's what most 20-somethings have (because they don't get credit).

Given a choice between cash and my rewards credit cards, I'll pull out the latter, even at Target.  Given a choice between cash and a no-rewards directly-tied-to-my-bank-account debit card, I'd pick the former.
 
2014-03-18 07:37:19 AM  
I always have a small amount of cash for emergencies or in the chance a place does not take a debit card (liquor stores). I do not have a credit card and while I will get one eventually to build credit, I enjoy not going into debt with impulse buys and just spending/saving the money I've earned.
 
2014-03-18 07:38:09 AM  
I have started using cash more lately- just because I've been spending more time at a cash-only joint. I tend to do everything with debit, my wife tends to do everything on credit, which works out great, honestly- she pays it off every month, and we get cash back.
 
2014-03-18 07:38:31 AM  
Gen X'er here, and I just paid off all my credit cards. So Im getting a kick outta these replies.

/I'm making Christmas gifts this year
 
2014-03-18 07:39:18 AM  

The Muthaship: HindiDiscoMonster: If I get robbed of my cash, how do I get it back?

Life has risk.

Being a grown man isn't for everyone.


Do you watch a lot of money rap videos or something?
 
2014-03-18 07:40:10 AM  
If you have a modicum of self-control then using credit cards is far superior to using cash:

1. Nobody is forcing you to buy crap you don't need.
2. Credit card companies pay rewards for using their cards, anywhere from 1% - 5% depending on the purchase.
3. It helps your credit rating (useful for qualifying for a home loan and getting better interest rates).
4. Pay it off every month and your cash can sit in your bank earning some interest and there is no cost to using the card
5. You are not responsible for fraudulent charges (good luck getting your cash back if stolen).
6. Most credit card companies offer extended warranties on purchases made with their cards.
7. Impossible to rent a car without a credit card
8. If you have an emergency and don't have enough cash to cover your expenses, you can still buy food.
9. Buying stuff online is extremely difficult without a credit card, and you can find most things cheaper online (saving you more money).

There are probably many other reasons.  It all boils down to self-control and responsibility.
 
2014-03-18 07:40:40 AM  

illannoyin: Isn't the millennium only 14 years old?

/I don't really understand how that whole generation naming thing works


The millennials are the generation that "came of age" at the turn of the century. We say "came of age", because while other generations may have "grown up", the millennials just sort of stumbled from birthday to birthday. But that's beside the point. Another cohort is hot on their heels and will be entering the workforce in five years or so, and we don't have a name for them yet. I know everyone has a lot on his plate at the moment, and we don't have to solve this problem right away, but we should be looking for ideas. I'm sure the millennials want to start making fun of someone else as soon as possible, and we'll need to have a name ready to go.
 
2014-03-18 07:41:56 AM  

UNC_Samurai: While I can understand a couple of jobs being interested in that sort of thing (such as in the financial or security sectors), in general the idea of needing solid financial footing just to get a job that doesn't involve flipping burgers should piss people off. Doesn't that seem like an incredibly easy way to trap people in a vicious cycle?


Frankly the sort of people who have terrible credit are exactly the sort of people I don't mind getting pissed off about stuff like this, the rest of us don't really care because its sort of like a "you must be this tall to ride" sign, it keeps the riff raff out of the office until they grow up and start looking at the bigger picture then their current day to day life.
 
2014-03-18 07:42:06 AM  

reprobate1125: Cerebral Ballsy: True, true.  Also, if you don't buy stuff on credit, you don't need to worry about your credit rating.

Not quite true.  Whether you agree with it or not rates like homeowner's insurance and car insurance are often partially tied to your credit.

Also, many employers check credit before hiring...even if your job has nothing to do with money. They use it to see if you are a person of your word (by keeping your financial obligations).


As someone who has worked for a bank, as well as a large insurance underwriter, I can tell you that what you stated is pretty much false.

I understand a lot of people don't know how insurance companies make money, but your ability to make payments is not something that actuaries concern themselves with.

As for the credit check thing... I am a hiring manager (and have been for years) including at some fortune 100 companies. I've actually never seen HR perform a credit check on anyone, including people who work at financial institutions (like me). Criminal check, absolutely yes.

I think a lot of this is just old wives tales b.s. and fud, probably peddled by people who also peddle credit. There's no virtue attached to being in debt at usury rates regardless of what anyone tries to tell you and the only type of debt worth taking on is one that has a ROI greater than your financing, like for instance - buying a home or starting a business or buying stocks on a line of credit, all of which are financed at rates that tend to be reasonable as opposed to credit cards.

Hell, I actually do not have a credit card and I've worked in finance most my adult life. Very few of my contemporaries who have them ever carry a balance on them and use them primarily for travel and renting cars.

Only poor people need to use credit cards. Think about that for a second.
 
2014-03-18 07:43:13 AM  

HotWingConspiracy: Do you watch a lot of money rap videos or something?


Do they still make those?

I'm not against using credit cards.  I do it quite often.  But, adults should carry a reasonable amount of cash.  It has flexibility beyond any other form of payment.  My bias comes from and endless list of anecdotes involving people saying "I don't have any cash, can we split the check 14 ways and I can use 3 of my credit cards, a debit and this gift card?" when the bill arrives.  It's annoying.
 
2014-03-18 07:43:55 AM  
What a person who is not owned by a lobbyist might look like.

blog.lib.umn.edu
 
2014-03-18 07:47:02 AM  
RockofAges:  No shiat, pops. You guys sold all our shiat to China, sat back and reaped the short term rewards (see: Alberta Tar Sands) -- destroyed all public sector jobs and all unions (unions that largely bought you your middle class lifestyle on a single breadwinner) and then told us to go work the fry vat. Oh yeah, and if we don't like working the fry vat after doing two degrees (the degrees you sold us at 400% inflation over your own degree -- note the singular, if you even have a degree (most teachers from that era only went to "teacher's college") -- we're "lazy biatches".


No, that's just a convenient folder to put the people who did that in.  The term your looking for is "thieving, greedy cocksuckers" and they span every generation still breathing.  Study it out.
 
2014-03-18 07:47:06 AM  

Cerebral Ballsy: The Muthaship: Good.

Grown ups carry cash.

I'm proud of you.

I have a coworker trying to date me who doesn't use cash, even small amounts.

/I won't even be your friend if you're one of those annoying-ass people


Why would you want to use cash? I live in Sweden and I never use cash. It's faster, simpler and safer with card payments. At least over here.
 
2014-03-18 07:49:18 AM  

TwistedFark: Very few of my contemporaries who have them ever carry a balance on them and use them primarily for travel and renting cars.


If you have work-related travel expenses, and  don't have a corporate card from your employer, using a credit card is a no-brainer. A cash-back card means you  make money on those expenses.
 
2014-03-18 07:49:56 AM  

dragonchild: mafiageek1980: Maybe we can stop biatching about them so much and praise them for the GOOD things they do?

If you need to see the disaster to understand the risk, you're a Darwin award waiting to happen.

The ability to learn, especially from other's mistakes, makes them smarter than a Baby Boomer, so kudos there I guess.  But the lack of foresight doesn't quite make them smarter than my cat.

Well, I'll take progress where I can get it.


Exactly! Baby steps are better than no steps at all :)
 
2014-03-18 07:50:11 AM  

HindiDiscoMonster: CASH... the choice of Armed Robbers worldwide


Everybody needs to eat!
 
2014-03-18 07:50:35 AM  

TwistedFark: As for the credit check thing... I am a hiring manager (and have been for years) including at some fortune 100 companies. I've actually never seen HR perform a credit check on anyone, including people who work at financial institutions (like me).


Of course they don't; they outsource that work -- there are firms that sell their business to HR departments vetting candidates.  It has nothing to do with qualifications (that's still done the old-fashioned way) but a series of invasive and humiliating checks such as education, credit, criminal record, etc.  Of course, the perk is that these third-party firms basically get paid to collect personal information and you've signed off on the 3rd party agreement (otherwise bye-bye job offer).

Had it done to me.  What's even worse is that if it happens too many times, the credit agencies will ding your credit score for being accessed too many times.  That's a nice little cycle.
 
2014-03-18 07:51:14 AM  

rumpelstiltskin: illannoyin: Isn't the millennium only 14 years old?

/I don't really understand how that whole generation naming thing works

The millennials are the generation that "came of age" at the turn of the century. We say "came of age", because while other generations may have "grown up", the millennials just sort of stumbled from birthday to birthday. But that's beside the point. Another cohort is hot on their heels and will be entering the workforce in five years or so, and we don't have a name for them yet. I know everyone has a lot on his plate at the moment, and we don't have to solve this problem right away, but we should be looking for ideas. I'm sure the millennials want to start making fun of someone else as soon as possible, and we'll need to have a name ready to go.


Generation Z is most common, which seems way too generic but might work out okay because zombies. All the cutesy on-the-nose proposals like iGeneration are idiotic. The New Silent Generation might be suitable but I think it's too early to tell...and it kind of sounds like a an off-brand superhero cartoon.
 
2014-03-18 07:51:17 AM  

The Muthaship: HotWingConspiracy: Do you watch a lot of money rap videos or something?

Do they still make those?

I'm not against using credit cards.  I do it quite often.  But, adults should carry a reasonable amount of cash.  It has flexibility beyond any other form of payment.  My bias comes from and endless list of anecdotes involving people saying "I don't have any cash, can we split the check 14 ways and I can use 3 of my credit cards, a debit and this gift card?" when the bill arrives.  It's annoying.


Oh for sure. I was quite keen to dispense with cash then I learned it's folly after one of our annual biblical smiting storms in the NY metro area. No power for 2 days meant no purchasing power, it was kind of miserable. Yes, 2 days isn't a long time but I'm a single guy with nothing but condiments in my fridge. Now I roll with a healthy mix and I never ever put more on credit than I can clear at the end of the month.
 
2014-03-18 07:53:25 AM  

RockofAges: Credit card companies pay rewards to rich / big spenders. Not the average person, let alone most cardholders (serious debtors).


While credit card companies love interest income, their primary revenue stream is transaction fees. Even if you never pay a nickel in interest, they still make a percentage on every purchase you make with their card (which is why small businesses hate dealing with credit cards). That's where the real money is, so yes, they  do pay rewards to non-rich people (I had a rewards card fresh out of college, with barely any income). Things have changed, in that most rewards cards do come with an annual fee, which does mean that  you don't benefit from the rewards unless you're a moderate spender (the card my wife has pays for its annual fee in a month or two, based on our spending patterns).
 
2014-03-18 07:54:40 AM  
I'm 31 and I've never owned a credit card.  I know there are advantages if you have a credit card and pay it off consistently, but I'm much more comfortable with money I spend coming directly out of my checking account.  I also don't like carrying around a lot of cash in my wallet. The only downside so far has been that when I bought my house, my dad had to cosign on the mortgage.  Six months later, I refinanced as the sole mortgagor. When I was younger, I did have a few times where I over-drafted my account and it cost me, but now I keep a substantial emergency-only padding in my account to keep that from happening.

Whatever your financial practices are, don't spend money you don't have.
 
2014-03-18 07:54:46 AM  

mafiageek1980: Good on them :) Maybe we can stop biatching about them so much and praise them for the GOOD things they do?

/Born in '80
//part millennnial, part gen X, 100% Crazy!


We got burned with the recession, so a decent chunk of my generation is really hesitant to go into debt. Of course, student loans that equal about a car payment don't help either.
 
2014-03-18 07:54:54 AM  

HindiDiscoMonster: The Muthaship: HotWingConspiracy: Do you watch a lot of money rap videos or something?

Do they still make those?

I'm not against using credit cards.  I do it quite often.  But, adults should carry a reasonable amount of cash.  It has flexibility beyond any other form of payment.  My bias comes from and endless list of anecdotes involving people saying "I don't have any cash, can we split the check 14 ways and I can use 3 of my credit cards, a debit and this gift card?" when the bill arrives.  It's annoying.

[4.bp.blogspot.com image 420x315]
/CASH... the choice of Armed Robbers worldwide.... :P


"A man can always steal more with a briefcase than a gun."  -  Mike "Mag Dog" Adams
 
2014-03-18 07:55:04 AM  

HotWingConspiracy: Now I roll with a healthy mix and I never ever put more on credit than I can clear at the end of the month.


Word.

HindiDiscoMonster: I barely make it now


I hope things get better and quickly, sir.
 
2014-03-18 07:59:09 AM  

ApeShaft: Why would you want to use cash? I live in Sweden and I never use cash. It's faster, simpler and safer with card payments. At least over here.


You answered your own question.

Setting aside whether or not cash is actually due for a comeback, in case you haven't noticed, American companies don't put a whole lot into protecting their customers' credit card information.  It's anything but secure.  Of course, credit card companies are generally good about fraudulent charges but that's basically subsidized by their enormous interest & fees revenue.  If credit card usage declined beyond a certain threshold they would very quickly end that perk.
 
2014-03-18 07:59:54 AM  

HindiDiscoMonster: HotWingConspiracy: The Muthaship: HotWingConspiracy: Do you watch a lot of money rap videos or something?

Do they still make those?

I'm not against using credit cards.  I do it quite often.  But, adults should carry a reasonable amount of cash.  It has flexibility beyond any other form of payment.  My bias comes from and endless list of anecdotes involving people saying "I don't have any cash, can we split the check 14 ways and I can use 3 of my credit cards, a debit and this gift card?" when the bill arrives.  It's annoying.

Oh for sure. I was quite keen to dispense with cash then I learned it's folly after one of our annual biblical smiting storms in the NY metro area. No power for 2 days meant no purchasing power, it was kind of miserable. Yes, 2 days isn't a long time but I'm a single guy with nothing but condiments in my fridge. Now I roll with a healthy mix and I never ever put more on credit than I can clear at the end of the month.

you have very good willpower... if only most people did.


I think it's more about paranoia, honestly. I've been dirt poor and in debt, that shiat isn't any fun. I'm not going back.
 
2014-03-18 08:00:24 AM  
Using cash for regular transactions can save an ass-load (technical term) of money as many points of sale can offer discount for using cash - you just have to ask for it.  If you deal with a salesperson who does not have the juice to offer a discount, ask to speak with someone who has the power.  Don't fall into the trap that you can get by without having a credit card; just try to get a mortgage without one.

There is nothing inherently wrong with credit cards, just pay them off.    Carrying a balance on your credit card = giving money away.
 
2014-03-18 08:00:57 AM  
Millennial articles: unfounded generalized click bait.

/won't carry cash
 
2014-03-18 08:01:19 AM  
It's just hipster/artisan/renfair/steampunk/prepper backlash against The Man.  You know, because of that Snowden guy.   Or something.

Let one of them need to acquire any real property and they'll stampede to credit like the other demographics.
 
2014-03-18 08:01:52 AM  

RockofAges: Good point, I forgot about the rape of small businesses in the mix.


Which is why lots of small businesses are moving towards using things like Square. It widens the range of payment methods and while the base transaction fee is higher, it has fewer of the "sneaky" fees.
 
2014-03-18 08:02:27 AM  
Depression, recession, boom, bust, market factors, old people, young people, blah blah blah.

What all of the GED economists clearly stating "how sh*t works and who's to blame" never seem to mention is that the entire economic structure of Corporatist Capitalism™ is based on endless growth, a new pack of suckers who hit the ground running at 20 with enough debt to make Shylock wince - every twenty years - and is pretty much modeled on things that don't work in the physical world.


And, every twenty to 45 years, scale of whatever war we're in being the deciding factor, they wheat gets harvested and pushed upchain and we start getting all shouty and twitchy and blamey and several other dwarfs who weren't in the film.


Bonus, we participate in this over and over, never saying "OUR economic constructs look like something a 7 year old worked out after finding their dad's old pocket calculator.  Maybe it just blows."
 
2014-03-18 08:02:31 AM  
And the trend has only just begun.

It's a trend piece.  That means it's bullshiat.
 
2014-03-18 08:03:42 AM  

SoupJohnB: Boomer, here.  (Hold your fire!)  I fell into a deep financial hole a few years back.  Had plenty of help with the digging, but had to crawl out on my own.  I decided that the first order of business was to retire all credit card debts and stick with the pay-as-you-go plan.  I made it, but discovered that when you don't buy stuff on credit, your credit ratings suffer!


I went through the same thing about 10yrs ago. Paid off all of my debt, went cash only and didn't monitor my credit. It has taken me awhile to get it back to right.
 
2014-03-18 08:04:16 AM  

Monkeyfark Ridiculous: The New Silent Generation


That would be a laughably ironic name for the chattiest and most trollerific generation in history.
 
2014-03-18 08:06:25 AM  
By the way, as far as functional societies go, the guy selling "F*cking old people f*cking f*cked everything up and sh*, dude!" doesn't exactly look look like Solutions Man©
 
2014-03-18 08:09:59 AM  

RockofAges: bunner: By the way, as far as functional societies go, the guy selling "F*cking old people f*cking f*cked everything up and sh*, dude!" doesn't exactly look look like Solutions Man©

Hand over the reigns and see how it's done. Until then, grip them with your wrinkled fingers until your surburban illusion collapses. You guys farked it up. Granddad's generation didn't.


It's spelled "reins" and I have some rather unpleasant news to impart.  There are no reins.  And if there were, they sure as hell wouldn't be in the hands of any given group because of what year they were born.  Time Life really *isn't* the most accurate historical reference.
 
2014-03-18 08:10:24 AM  

Freudian_slipknot: Cerebral Ballsy: The Muthaship: Good.

Grown ups carry cash.

I'm proud of you.

I have a coworker trying to date me who doesn't use cash, even small amounts.

/I won't even be your friend if you're one of those annoying-ass people

That's a super cool thing to be really upset about.

Personally, I use a card for everything.  Even super-small purchases.  Everything auto-pays onto the card, including utilities where possible.

At the end of the month, I have an accurate history of exactly where my money was spent and I pay off the card.

I have an exact history down to the penny of my spending habits, down to how often I grab fast food at lunch or how much I've spent on shoes in the last 5 years.  It definitely helps when trying to find places where I could slim down the budget instead of looking at an empty wallet at the end of the week and trying to remember where it all disappeared to or sorting through a handful of crumpled receipts.

I've never been in debt, other than my mortgage.  I've never even take a car loan.  But because of my solid history with my card, I was in the top-tier for credit rating when I applied for that mortgage.

I have never in my life carried a balance over on my card or paid a single cent in interest on those charges.

tl;dr You're ridiculous for judging someone using a card without knowing the details.

/born in 82.  Technically a millennial, I guess.


Same here except the car loan. Needed it to afford the used minivan. Sucker cost three times more than the honda I had to replace :/

Don't have twins.

Used the CC because you're throwing away your rewards points otherwise. It doesn't get any cheaper if you use cash or your bank card, so you might as well get that 2% (or whatever) back.

/1982
//am slightly offended by the name "millennial".
///slashies come in threes
 
2014-03-18 08:11:08 AM  
P.S.  There's a very good chance that "grandpa" and "pops" got the sh*tty end of the twig, too, kids.  Step back from the tree house and look at the forest.
 
2014-03-18 08:14:29 AM  
What cash may look like:

img.fark.net
 
2014-03-18 08:15:31 AM  
I don't get this "trend" the article refers to.  It reads that 48% of those 18-24 yearsold saidthey were very confident, then goes oninterpret this as indicating that a "majority of the youngest primary family shoppers are either somewhat confident or not confident at all..."
So there were only 3 possible answers to this question on the survey: very confident, somewhat confident, or not confident at all, yet 48% isn't enough to be significant? (do the math)
Where's the data on any demographic between 25 and 49?

Also, cash doesn't hold the most liquidation these days; I can't use it online, some stores prefer not using it so they don't have to bother with it, even vendors at the farmers' market are using tablets or phones for plastic card purchasing instead of cash.

I may be off, but isn't this more about opening lines of credit through companies that are supposed to be retailers, not banks... or in the case of Target and it's Red Card debit card - that link a physical card of theirs to an existing checking account of yours... I may be biased since just getting my card number isn't going to even give you a full tank of gas, but when it comes to general use of my card, I have them run it as credit because I worry more about someone watching me enter my pin than data breeches.
 
2014-03-18 08:16:36 AM  

UNC_Samurai: reprobate1125: Cerebral Ballsy: True, true.  Also, if you don't buy stuff on credit, you don't need to worry about your credit rating.

Not quite true.  Whether you agree with it or not rates like homeowner's insurance and car insurance are often partially tied to your credit.

Also, many employers check credit before hiring...even if your job has nothing to do with money. They use it to see if you are a person of your word (by keeping your financial obligations).

While I can understand a couple of jobs being interested in that sort of thing (such as in the financial or security sectors), in general the idea of needing solid financial footing just to get a job that doesn't involve flipping burgers should piss people off.  Doesn't that seem like an incredibly easy way to trap people in a vicious cycle?


Sometimes the whole credit check thing is more for data logging.

Used to work LP for national retail chain. We ran criminal and credit checks on every new employee. Criminal would likely get you off the list, credit was less of an issue, unless your register started coming up short. The we'd sit on you until we got you.

I don't know how many crying late teen/early twenties idiots we had paraded out the front door in hand cuffs, but it never seemed to stop some other idiot from stealing.
 
2014-03-18 08:16:44 AM  
College age kid home for weekend.    Drove past the local small town firecompany/annex parking lot and saw cars...people standing around.      Thought is was a 'rummage sale' that they some times have.     Pulled in, recognized a neighbor etc...

Turns out it wasn't a rummage sale, they weren't selling homade soups and pies like a couple years ago.

It was a food handout.    A business and church donation.    The neighbor stopped and showed her that if she signs her name she could get spagetti noodles, cans of beefaroni, salt an pepper, toilet paper, marshmallows? and other canned food items.   People standing in cold and snow for just one bag or about 10-15lbs of dry goods.

She just kind of went all blank.   It wasn't what she thought it was.

yep, then she got in the car and bawled.     Welcome to 2014.
 
2014-03-18 08:17:59 AM  

HindiDiscoMonster: oooh right... no protection on that... I will continue to use my debit/VISA thanks... rob me of that, I get the money back by 5pm same day


Real credit cards are a lot safer than the "fake" debit visa cards which are only slightly safer than cash.

The big problem with the debit card/visa check card is that, sure if there is fraud on your card, you might get that money back pretty quickly. The downside is if you've written any checks or had any other debits from that same account.

1. If you are old school and have written a check (I write like 1 a  year), if that check bounces at the same time you had your debit card fraud, in most states the company could swear out a warrant for your arrest.  Your bank isn't going to fix that.  And it does happen.  A lot.

2. If you pay any bill from your checking account (including your mortgage) during a time of fraud with your debit card, there is no guarantee that your bank is going to pay the late fees and clean up the mess.

If you don't want to use a real credit card and insist on using a debit card the only safe way to do it is for it to have its own account that you do not also use for checks/bill pay.

If someone steals your regular credit card, they've taken the bank's money, not yours.
 
2014-03-18 08:19:50 AM  

RockofAges: But the rule is -- the boomers as a generation were handed everything. Economic prosperity, free love, and a fake hippy movement


I'm sorry, but your "rule" is largely prefab malarkey and pretty much the whole Time Life box set.  It is.  Why would I make that up?  I'm just trying to keep the f*cking lights on here like everybody else until somebody hands me those oft touted reins.  You really believe a bunch of spoiled kids who, 80% of which, had working class parents and lived in a GI Bill house all the sudden said "let's dress funny, pretend to reject greed and the military industrial complex turning the world into a sh*thole and then, like in 20 years, we'll take the whole thing over and do a lot of coke"?  Find me one demographic on earth other than the 1% whose con is that well thought out and I'll kiss your ass in Macy's window.  Your scapegoat is plush animal and it was made in Taiwan.
 
2014-03-18 08:19:53 AM  

Spanky McStupid: Don't fall into the trap that you can get by without having a credit card; just try to get a mortgage without one.


Done and done.

You can get a mortgage without a credit card. I know, I have one.

I worked in mortgages for a pretty big bank for several years, and yes absolutely credit history is a factor on the risk assessment, it's not the only factor, and a lack of credit itself doesn't necessarily give you negative points on the risk card.

The biggest factors are always (at my place of work it was in this order).
1) Down payment size as proportion of final settlement.
2) Cash on hand.
3) Investments you own. (401k's, stocks, mutual funds, bonds, term deposits, etc)
4) Work history.
5) Credit history (so long as there are no defaults or bankruptcy, you're usually fine)

I easily got my first mortgage with less than 10 years of work history because I rocked up with 20% down and an investment portfolio that equated to another 40% of the final settlement price. The loan officer was practically tripping over his dick to sign me, took me out to lunch and came to my place of residence after hours to get me to sign the mortgage documents.

I tell this to people all the time - if you want to get financing for an investment (and a mortgage should be an investment) the easiest way to establish the credit to do so is to have other investments. You'd be amazed at how far 50 dollars a week into an investment portfolio, when combined with 401k contributions will go after a few years in establishing you as a low credit risk.

Amazingly enough, banks like to have customers who invest their money. Go figure.
 
2014-03-18 08:20:04 AM  

BumpInTheNight: This cunning plan only works if you're part of the Renters and leasers for life crew!


Not true. Smart landlords check credit as well.

This cunning plan only works if you're part of the Renters in the ghettoo and leasers for life crew!

FTFY
 
2014-03-18 08:20:06 AM  
Was out to dinner the other day and watched 4 twenty something's each pay for their dinner with a credit card. The waitress was not amused.
 
2014-03-18 08:22:59 AM  

UNC_Samurai: in general the idea of needing solid financial footing just to get a job that doesn't involve flipping burgers should piss people off.  Doesn't that seem like an incredibly easy way to trap people in a vicious cycle?


It does, but the logic is...
If potential employee tells xyz he's going to do something (like pay $50 per month) and doesn't, how in the world am I supposed to believe he's going to do what he tells me he's going to do.

That's not my logic...it's theirs and it makes some sense.  The problem/fault in the logic is that huge proportions of people with bad credit got there from medical bills (possibly from their spouse).  Of course there's the housing "crisis" but that's another story.
 
2014-03-18 08:24:45 AM  
As evil as credit companies are, I have no sympathy for the, "I was 18 and dumb and racked up thousands of dollars in credit card debt buying shoes."
 
2014-03-18 08:25:15 AM  
Serious, nonjudgmental question for those out there who have ever actually borrowed on a credit card (i.e., did not pay it off every month): why did you do it? Did you lack shopping discipline at the time? Did you simply not understand how the card worked? Were you in a bind and needed the money?

To many it's a no-brainer to use a card in a disciplined manner and pay it off every month so that you build credit, collect rewards, and have fraud protection without paying any interest or fees. But enough people refute this notion such that it must not be as simple as it sounds. Some CSBs might help bridge the gap of understanding.
 
2014-03-18 08:25:27 AM  
RockofAges: 
Unfortunately for you, you are so totally wrong that anyone reading this thread will be able to discern this at a moment's notice. Swing and a miss.

Oooh, posture of authority coupled with a baseless dismissal AND an appeal to the masses in one sentence.  And on the INTERNET!  Sustained +12 damage.  I need a power up.  Hand me those reins!   *snort*  I'll bet none of this is sinking in.
 
2014-03-18 08:25:49 AM  

RockofAges: Freudian_slipknot: Cerebral Ballsy: The Muthaship: Good.

To be fair, you are the exception rather than the rule, by a huge margin. If you were the rule, VISA and Mastercard wouldn't be the enormously profitable parasites that they are. That being said, I agree with you that it's foolish to judge a credit / debit only person.

As a redneck / scavenger -- cash is king.


I used to think that I was kind of ripping the CC companies off by paying my cards off at the end of the month. I've never paid a penny in interest in my life. (I'm 37).

Then I started taking credit cards at my business. The CC companies make PLENTY of money even if you don't pay them the ridiculous interest. It's a great business.
 
2014-03-18 08:26:39 AM  
Too bad for them college loan debt exceeds credit card debt.
 
2014-03-18 08:27:25 AM  
I'm really tired of the biatching about Millinials as if they were irresponsible...if anything, it's the generations raising them that deserve derision.

We have credit card debt which happened after I quit my job due to nearly dying from undiagnosed illness...which happened right at the same time we bought a house. The medical bills plus things we had to fix in our house (which the previous owner trashed on her way out) ended up going on the credit cards because we suddenly had less income and we've been working on them ever since. On the plus side, we were never weighed down by student loans, so it's made it easier...but I will be glad when we pay off the credit cards and can build our savings back up again...I hate living on the edge and we probably won't start making headway until I can go back to work (which would do no good right now as we have two young children and most of my income would get eaten up by daycare). But we live in a nice house that we can afford without problems, raise our children and can afford preschool and extracurricular activities for them and nearly have our first car paid off, so I think we are doing well, despite the credit card debt.
 
2014-03-18 08:27:53 AM  

Snarcoleptic_Hoosier: Of course, student loans that equal about a car payment don't help either.


And you can't bankrupt out of the loans for that psychology degree.
 
2014-03-18 08:27:54 AM  

Tyrone Slothrop: Too bad for them college loan debt exceeds credit card debt.


But they'll have that degree debt certificate that says "I'll do ANYTHING for money!
 
2014-03-18 08:33:07 AM  

van1ty: As evil as credit companies are, I have no sympathy for the, "I was 18 and dumb and racked up thousands of dollars in credit card debt buying shoes."


Credit cards were given out to 18 year olds and younger bc they knew the parents would wind up paying the bill. Now you have to be 21 or prove that you're on your own financially (and that's relatively hard to do ).

If your young and in college, the sweet spot to get a cc is at 21 because once you graduate, it's a lot more difficult those first few years because of this line of thinking.
 
2014-03-18 08:34:25 AM  

illannoyin: Isn't the millennium only 14 years old?

/I don't really understand how that whole generation naming thing works


Well aren't the baby boomers actually the baby boomed?  Like they're the babies that came from the boom?  I don't know what exists between boomers and Xers, and always thought Xers were anyone from the late 70s/80s, but millennials  are said to be 80s/90s, so is there an overlap or what?

The article cites survey answers from 18-24 year olds and then 50-65 year olds (So baby boomers are post-Korean War kids?) but no other demographic... The article reads like some of these posts, just more drivel dividing of boomers, who apparently are always right in everything they do, from those recently entering the workforce.
  Hey boomers, I get you like to giggle at kids raised in modern technology when they spike a surge in popularity of something you see as traditional, or maybe it makes you feel better about not understanding today's technology (you think the best thing about switching to DVDs and DVRs is that you no longer had to live with the blinking clock on your VCR) but don't forget, it was your generation that invented most of today's technology.  Stop hating on those that will turn the technology your peers gave us into even more revolutionary tools, and accept that your has-been arses have only so much time left before the younger generations point out that the whole system boomers set up for 65+ when they retire was designed for a time when people were long lived to even reach 60, doesn't function when its applied to a generation that didn't lose millions in war, and lives into their 70s on average.

/not really pushing for a retirement age of 75
//not getting off your lawn
 
2014-03-18 08:35:01 AM  

Semantic Warrior: I may be off, but isn't this more about opening lines of credit through companies that are supposed to be retailers, not banks... or in the case of Target and it's Red Card debit card - that link a physical card of theirs to an existing checking account of yours... I may be biased since just getting my card number isn't going to even give you a full tank of gas, but when it comes to general use of my card, I have them run it as credit because I worry more about someone watching me enter my pin than data breeches.


Retailers haven't "held the paper" on their debt since the 90's for the most part. Every time you get any kind of store card, it's almost always underwritten by a big bank.
 
2014-03-18 08:35:25 AM  

UNC_Samurai: While I can understand a couple of jobs being interested in that sort of thing (such as in the financial or security sectors), in general the idea of needing solid financial footing just to get a job that doesn't involve flipping burgers should piss people off. Doesn't that seem like an incredibly easy way to trap people in a vicious cycle?


Your employer doesn't care, he just wants a solid employee. Your credit sucks, fark you, I'll get somebody else.

/My current employer ran a credit check and a drug test so I could get this crappy-ass job.
 
2014-03-18 08:35:56 AM  

mafiageek1980: Good on them :) Maybe we can stop biatching about them so much and praise them for the GOOD things they do?

/Born in '80
//part millennnial, part gen X, 100% Crazy!


Generation Y buddy. millenials are the kids that always had internet. If you can remember a time with only a handfull of tv channels and no internet than you cant really be a millenial.
 
2014-03-18 08:37:24 AM  
Where do Debit cards fit in? Everyone I know doesn't use credit, but they mostly use Debit cards instead of cash.

Except for the ones who wait tables or serve coffee, that is.
 
2014-03-18 08:37:36 AM  
The central reserve banking system bent this country over the sink 100 years ago and if you really wanna "make that greedy generation pay!", you're gonna need a shovel and a voodoo priestess.  Debt is the only thing we make now, kids.  And it wasn't any given generation's idea.
 
2014-03-18 08:37:47 AM  
Deep Contact


Was out to dinner the other day and watched 4 twenty something's each pay for their dinner with a credit card. The waitress was not amused.


Did each of them take a picture of their food?

/god that irritates the hell out of me
 
2014-03-18 08:37:55 AM  
Are CC really that difficult? Spend money you have. Pay it off at the end of the month. Collect x% in rewards. Sure it may not be much but I can earn an extra 200+ dollars a year and not change my spending habits.
 
2014-03-18 08:40:01 AM  

reprobate1125: Snarcoleptic_Hoosier: Of course, student loans that equal about a car payment don't help either.

And you can't bankrupt out of the loans for that psychology degree.


What about for my MBA or Accounting degree?
 
2014-03-18 08:40:42 AM  

Ray_Finkle: Are CC really that difficult? Spend money you have. Pay it off at the end of the month. Collect x% in rewards. Sure it may not be much but I can earn an extra 200+ dollars a year and not change my spending habits.


I don't charge THAT much (but I put everything I can on my card) and I make $600 to $1200 and don't pay any interest/annual fees.
 
2014-03-18 08:42:13 AM  

macross87: reprobate1125: Snarcoleptic_Hoosier: Of course, student loans that equal about a car payment don't help either.

And you can't bankrupt out of the loans for that psychology degree.

What about for my MBA or Accounting degree?


Can't bankrupt out of that either :) But at least I'm guessing that was a better investment.

BTW, I don't know if you were trolling, but if you really did get an MBA, was it worth it?

I would love to get one, but there is such a glut right now.  I know I'd have to specialize. Just curious.
 
2014-03-18 08:44:41 AM  

RockofAges: Could be a regional thing, haven't heard of this phenomenon. A credit check here would be standard, perhaps, for a banking (or related) position. It would be offensive in any other industry AFAIK.


Other than North Dakota and a few other small regions, there are a glut of applicants for every position...I don't feel that employers are THAT worried about offending people. I get it though.
 
2014-03-18 08:44:50 AM  

reprobate1125: Ray_Finkle: Are CC really that difficult? Spend money you have. Pay it off at the end of the month. Collect x% in rewards. Sure it may not be much but I can earn an extra 200+ dollars a year and not change my spending habits.

I don't charge THAT much (but I put everything I can on my card) and I make $600 to $1200 and don't pay any interest/annual fees.


Exactly. I was talking 200+ per card because some have limits. You throw in sign up bonuses though and 1000 isn't too hard.
 
2014-03-18 08:47:19 AM  

Yankees Team Gynecologist: Serious, nonjudgmental question for those out there who have ever actually borrowed on a credit card (i.e., did not pay it off every month): why did you do it? Did you lack shopping discipline at the time? Did you simply not understand how the card worked? Were you in a bind and needed the money?

To many it's a no-brainer to use a card in a disciplined manner and pay it off every month so that you build credit, collect rewards, and have fraud protection without paying any interest or fees. But enough people refute this notion such that it must not be as simple as it sounds. Some CSBs might help bridge the gap of understanding.


According to my neighbor she was dropped as a child, repeatedly.

/I racked up a few months of non payment back when I was 19, I was not a very forward thinking 19 year old.
 
2014-03-18 08:49:09 AM  

RockofAges: MemeSlave: It's just hipster/artisan/renfair/steampunk/prepper backlash against The Man.  You know, because of that Snowden guy.   Or something.

Let one of them need to acquire any real property and they'll stampede to credit like the other demographics.

1/10. Only one point because you did use "hipster" at least.


That's not a troll, son, it's the truth.
 
2014-03-18 08:50:09 AM  

Ray_Finkle: reprobate1125: Ray_Finkle: Are CC really that difficult? Spend money you have. Pay it off at the end of the month. Collect x% in rewards. Sure it may not be much but I can earn an extra 200+ dollars a year and not change my spending habits.

I don't charge THAT much (but I put everything I can on my card) and I make $600 to $1200 and don't pay any interest/annual fees.

Exactly. I was talking 200+ per card because some have limits. You throw in sign up bonuses though and 1000 isn't too hard.


Yeah. Now that I think about it, I did pay a fee for a southwest one this year, but I'm going to wind up with 3 RT flights for that $100 fee and they give $86 in points when you pay the $99 fee every year so I'm on the fence with that one.
 
2014-03-18 08:52:58 AM  

RockofAges: I'm Canuckian, FWIW. The more I post in politics the more I realize that there are deep cultural differences here. I am sure some places do credit check / piss test, but frankly, I've never heard of them. Piss test for high end construction. Credit check for banking / financial. Never heard of it otherwise. And definitely not in the public sector.


According to Kipplinger (in 2012) who cited someone else...
About 13% of employers check credit reports for all candidates and 47% check for those applying to selected positions, according to the Society for Human Resource Management.

From what I understand, that is trending up. 
Read more at  http://www.kiplinger.com/article/business/T012-C000-S002-can-a-credit - score-kill-a-job-offer.html#PJcB5oLvoGCcWUtS.99
 
2014-03-18 08:55:33 AM  

Semantic Warrior: illannoyin: Isn't the millennium only 14 years old?

/I don't really understand how that whole generation naming thing works

Well aren't the baby boomers actually the baby boomed?  Like they're the babies that came from the boom?  I don't know what exists between boomers and Xers, and always thought Xers were anyone from the late 70s/80s, but millennials  are said to be 80s/90s, so is there an overlap or what?


According to Wikipedia:

The Baby Boomers are the generation that was born following World War II, generally from 1943 up to the early 1960s, a time that was marked by an increase in birth rates.

Generation X, commonly abbreviated to Gen X, is the generation born after the Western Post-World War II baby boom. Demographers, historians and commentators use beginning birth dates from the early 1960s to the early 1980s.

"Millennials", or the Millennial Generation, also known as "Generation Y", are the demographic cohort following Generation X. Commentators use birth dates ranging from the early 1980s to the early 2000s.
 
2014-03-18 08:57:11 AM  

RockofAges: reprobate1125: RockofAges: I'm Canuckian, FWIW. The more I post in politics the more I realize that there are deep cultural differences here. I am sure some places do credit check / piss test, but frankly, I've never heard of them. Piss test for high end construction. Credit check for banking / financial. Never heard of it otherwise. And definitely not in the public sector.

According to Kipplinger (in 2012) who cited someone else...
About 13% of employers check credit reports for all candidates and 47% check for those applying to selected positions, according to the Society for Human Resource Management.

From what I understand, that is trending up. 
Read more at  http://www.kiplinger.com/article/business/T012-C000-S002-can-a-credit - score-kill-a-job-offer.html#PJcB5oLvoGCcWUtS.99

Are these American #s?


Yeah. Sorry.  I was explaining how Murica does it.
 
2014-03-18 08:59:40 AM  

RockofAges: reprobate1125: RockofAges: I'm Canuckian, FWIW. The more I post in politics the more I realize that there are deep cultural differences here. I am sure some places do credit check / piss test, but frankly, I've never heard of them. Piss test for high end construction. Credit check for banking / financial. Never heard of it otherwise. And definitely not in the public sector.

Are these American #s?


I guess it does happen in the private sector in Canada....

Is an employer allowed to perform a credit check on an employee or prospective employee?
An employer may perform a credit check on an employee or prospective employee if the employer intends to use the information for employment purposes. Such purposes include considering new hires, granting promotions, reassigning employment duties or determining whether to retain someone as an employee.

When should the employer perform the credit check?
For prospective employees, the credit check should be completed only after a conditional offer of employment has been made in writing. The main reason being that non-financial information about the candidate may be discovered through the credit check process; if the information concerns protected grounds of discrimination and a decision is made not to hire the employee, the employer could become exposed to liability.
For current employees, we recommend completing a credit check only when a decision has otherwise been made in respect of promoting or retaining the employee.

Is an employer required to give notice that a credit check will be performed?
Before conducting a credit check, the  Consumer Reporting Act requires an employer to give written notice to the applicant or employee that a credit check will be performed. If the applicant or employee asks, the employer must inform him or her of the name and address of the consumer reporting agency supplying the report. All such written communication must be in the format prescribed by the legislation.

(Rest of the article at ...http://www.mondaq.com/canada/x/273700/employee+rights+labour+rela tions /Frequently+Asked+Questions+Employee  from Nov 7, 2013)
 
2014-03-18 09:08:15 AM  

Yankees Team Gynecologist: Serious, nonjudgmental question for those out there who have ever actually borrowed on a credit card (i.e., did not pay it off every month): why did you do it? Did you lack shopping discipline at the time? Did you simply not understand how the card worked? Were you in a bind and needed the money?

To many it's a no-brainer to use a card in a disciplined manner and pay it off every month so that you build credit, collect rewards, and have fraud protection without paying any interest or fees. But enough people refute this notion such that it must not be as simple as it sounds. Some CSBs might help bridge the gap of understanding.


Some people need things right away that they cannot afford to wait until the next paycheck for. Things like food, medical bills, utility bills, car repairs, everyday things for themselves or their children (like clothing or school supplies), etc. These people tend to have crappy jobs. So even if they could wait until the next paycheck the chances are that they still wouldn't have enough. Many, many people have bad jobs and making ends meet, even with very minimal luxuries, is hard.

Many, many people have full time jobs and still struggle to get by. Sure, there are plenty of people who see credit cards as free money. But so many others use them as necessary buffers. I've been there. I got to card to build credit. Then, after a few years, things got hard. Car repairs and medical bills stacked up. for a while, with my card sitting at 95% max, and my only luxury being cable and internet (cheap entertainment, all said and done. We need entertainment to keep us sane) I was still getting down to under $50 in the bank every month.

I'm doing much better now. But for a while I would have been homeless without my credit card. Shiat happens. Jobs out there are too few in number and suck as it's a race to the bottom as corporations are seeing how little they can pay a desperate person do to a job. And so long as the ones in charge do things like run skeleton crews and outsource so they can pay someone else 1/5 of what they'd have to pay a local all so that they can make even more money that the'll never spend, nothing will change.

The short version, not everyone has money for unexpected expenditures. Credit is a blessing for that reason. And not everyone has enough money for day to day living. As has been pointed out here many times, one can work 40+ hours a week and still barely afford a place to live and food.
 
2014-03-18 09:11:34 AM  

Yankees Team Gynecologist: Serious, nonjudgmental question for those out there who have ever actually borrowed on a credit card (i.e., did not pay it off every month): why did you do it? Did you lack shopping discipline at the time? Did you simply not understand how the card worked? Were you in a bind and needed the money?

To many it's a no-brainer to use a card in a disciplined manner and pay it off every month so that you build credit, collect rewards, and have fraud protection without paying any interest or fees. But enough people refute this notion such that it must not be as simple as it sounds. Some CSBs might help bridge the gap of understanding.


When I was graduating I did it to pay moving expenses.  I was a poor student with nothing but a few dollars to rub together and, while I was getting a moving bonus, it wasn't going to be available until after my first paycheck, which entailed moving cross country, paying first month's rent and, you know, eating.  My biggest mistake was setting my start date for a month after graduation.  Six months earlier it seemed like a great idea to have a break and spend time with family and friends .  After a week of sitting in my house eating Ramen I really wanted to start work and get paid.

Earlier, that same year I had also had to get two root canals at the same time so I used Care Credit to pay for them.

It took me about a year to dig myself out of that hole but previous to that and after (past 6 years) I have not carried a balance even though I use my credit card for everything.  I've always been aware of the possibility of fraud and identity theft but credit cards are convenient and have a lot of benefits if you pay them off right away (I currently have a couple hundred dollars in rewards I'm saving for Dragon Con this year and just used some FF miles to book a trip to visit a friend next month for free)  so I'm unlikely to go back to cash.
 
kab
2014-03-18 09:11:56 AM  
 
kab
2014-03-18 09:14:16 AM  

illannoyin: Isn't the millennium only 14 years old?

/I don't really understand how that whole generation naming thing works


The name is irrelevant.  Being able to blame all your woes on the generation before you is where it's at.
 
2014-03-18 09:14:52 AM  
"I'm about to lose my home, car and access to the necessities of life."

"Well, we gave you that credit card.  Use that."

"But I'll never be able to pay it all down with this interest and all."
www.unixstickers.com
         SO JUST MAKE THE MINIMUM PAYMENTS!  THAT'S FINE!


It's called indentured servitude.  Ha ha.
 
2014-03-18 09:18:40 AM  

RockofAges: Usury is so reprehensible that even fundies eschew it. Let that one sink in.


Ooh, someone got a new thesaurus for their Quinceañera.
 
2014-03-18 09:18:55 AM  

ApeShaft: Cerebral Ballsy: The Muthaship: Good.

Grown ups carry cash.

I'm proud of you.

I have a coworker trying to date me who doesn't use cash, even small amounts.

/I won't even be your friend if you're one of those annoying-ass people

Why would you want to use cash? I live in Sweden and I never use cash. It's faster, simpler and safer with card payments. At least over here.


Tips, vending machines, small businesses that only deal in cash, split restaurant checks... I am tired of the crap these men pull because they don't carry cash.

Just, no.
 
2014-03-18 09:20:39 AM  

reprobate1125: macross87: reprobate1125: Snarcoleptic_Hoosier: Of course, student loans that equal about a car payment don't help either.

And you can't bankrupt out of the loans for that psychology degree.

What about for my MBA or Accounting degree?

Can't bankrupt out of that either :) But at least I'm guessing that was a better investment.

BTW, I don't know if you were trolling, but if you really did get an MBA, was it worth it?

I would love to get one, but there is such a glut right now.  I know I'd have to specialize. Just curious.


There was a comedian that joked about debit of school loans. Talked about a valuable lesson of buying text books for a premium and selling them for pennies as irony after thought. Don Friesen I think b

Wife has MBA and it helped with her economics stuff. Employer contributed heavily towards it though. That was her only real motivation for it.
 
2014-03-18 09:23:32 AM  

RockofAges: LasersHurt: RockofAges: Usury is so reprehensible that even fundies eschew it. Let that one sink in.

Ooh, someone got a new thesaurus for their Quinceañera.

I wish. All I got was this crappy RAM.

/actually, it's damn good RAM, and 16GB of it.
//has a fridge too. But it came from grampy's outbuilding and I have to use a pen to set the temp as the button facing is cracked off.
///CSBro


See, I knew Poverty in the US was bullshiat.
 
2014-03-18 09:25:58 AM  
When I was like 18 or so I had some credit cards and I would make late payments occasionally just out of laziness or forgetting what day of the month it is, those fees turned me off credit cards as a "real" adult, anything small I'll just cover with savings and anything bigger I'll just get a bank loan. My wife uses her credit card like some of you where she pays it off each month for some pittance of a reward, I can't really care enough to bother.
 
2014-03-18 09:26:01 AM  

RockofAges: A credit check here would be standard, perhaps, for a banking (or related) position. It would be offensive in any other industry AFAIK.


Heh, well, that's the least of employers' concerns.

RockofAges: Maybe via inheritance in 20 years if the boomers don't discover the fountain of youth and cling on indefinitely.


You've never heard of reverse mortgages I take it.  Go ahead and wiki it.  The Boomers don't intend to leave anything.
 
2014-03-18 09:27:03 AM  

macross87: reprobate1125: macross87: reprobate1125: Snarcoleptic_Hoosier: Of course, student loans that equal about a car payment don't help either.

And you can't bankrupt out of the loans for that psychology degree.

What about for my MBA or Accounting degree?

Can't bankrupt out of that either :) But at least I'm guessing that was a better investment.

BTW, I don't know if you were trolling, but if you really did get an MBA, was it worth it?

I would love to get one, but there is such a glut right now.  I know I'd have to specialize. Just curious.

There was a comedian that joked about debit of school loans. Talked about a valuable lesson of buying text books for a premium and selling them for pennies as irony after thought. Don Friesen I think b

Wife has MBA and it helped with her economics stuff. Employer contributed heavily towards it though. That was her only real motivation for it.


Yeah. My wife got her master's from the school district. Being self-employed, it's not like I'm going to pay myself more bc I have a master's.
 
2014-03-18 09:29:08 AM  

dragonchild: You've never heard of reverse mortgages I take it.  Go ahead and wiki it.  The Boomers don't intend to leave anything.


If you're smart and your parents are thinking of doing that, see if you can buy their house from them instead and save the freaking awful up front fees and garbage interest rates before letting them do that.

They're such bad products that only make sense in the most limited situations that most states (if not all) make you take a class/get counseling now before taking one out. Not that that isn't biased.
 
2014-03-18 09:31:48 AM  
If America were civilized, all restaurants would automatically split all checks n-ways.  It's ridiculous that restaurants in the year 2014 have  any trouble splitting checks arbitrarily.
 
2014-03-18 09:34:29 AM  

RockofAges: /here be dragons
//and at least some fun


Speaking of that, I think Dragon's Den should be syndicated here.  So much more fun than Shark Tank.

/I love both though.

I do try to put myself in their shoes as a small business owner.  Obviously I might want details that an applicant isn't willing to tell me, but if I (setting up the straw man)
Have 2 people with relatively similar job experience,education, and interview skills, why wouldn't I want the one that has shown the ability to handle money (at least recently?).

To me it shows maturity.

I setup an emergency fund as a lad and in my life I've had TB, e-coli, salmonella (I travel a lot), but my foresight allowed me to pay out of pocket when that could have wrecked someone else.

I think that in almost any job you want the person who shows the foresight to plan for unforeseen circumstances because Murphy happens.
 
2014-03-18 09:35:47 AM  

schezar: If America were civilized, all restaurants would automatically split all checks n-ways.  It's ridiculous that restaurants in the year 2014 have  any trouble splitting checks arbitrarily.


Yeah, some restaurants say
Seat 1: Blah
Seat 2: Blah, Blah, Blah (obviously a fatty)
etc.

Doesn't seem very hard.
 
2014-03-18 09:36:26 AM  

reprobate1125: If you're smart and your parents are thinking of doing that, see if you can buy their house from them instead


That's exactly what I did.  Convinced my mother she could make ends meet if she paid off the mortgage, then gave her the money to do so on the agreement that she wills the house to me.

She still got the free money she needed to clean up her finances, but instead of the house going to the bank, I get it.  Which is basically a zero inheritance because I'm just getting back money I put in, but at least we kept the number of grubby hands in the honey pot to a minimum.
 
2014-03-18 09:38:30 AM  

reprobate1125: They're such bad products that only make sense in the most limited situations that most states


"limited" situation being the person needs the money to live...
 
2014-03-18 09:40:51 AM  

Yankees Team Gynecologist: Serious, nonjudgmental question for those out there who have ever actually borrowed on a credit card (i.e., did not pay it off every month): why did you do it? Did you lack shopping discipline at the time? Did you simply not understand how the card worked? Were you in a bind and needed the money?

To many it's a no-brainer to use a card in a disciplined manner and pay it off every month so that you build credit, collect rewards, and have fraud protection without paying any interest or fees. But enough people refute this notion such that it must not be as simple as it sounds. Some CSBs might help bridge the gap of understanding.


The only time I have ever carried a balance: I paid for a whole semester of college on a credit card when I failed to earn enough surplus cash at my sales job to pay for my final semester of college. My thinking was "I just want to GRADUATE already". The market was crap, nobody was buying anything.

The balance bothered me but I'm glad I did it.
 
2014-03-18 09:41:41 AM  
Hey not too many 14 year olds have credit cards anway.
 
2014-03-18 09:42:56 AM  

Detinwolf: Hey not too many 14 year olds have credit cards anway.


My cat a credit card offer once.  It was made out to Fuzzhead (Mylastname).

Seriously.  Fuzzhead.
 
2014-03-18 09:44:03 AM  

RockofAges: I agree to some degree, but I don't think the market needs to be any more anti-employee than it already is. Also, given our current financial climate (complete stratification / growing inequity / in-my-opinion-an-economy-almost-completely-built-around-an-illusion) I think there are many more accurate predictors of maturity than a credit score.

Work experience, personality, and reliability can we sussed out quite quickly. Privacy used to mean something and the bare pertinent details were more than good enough -- "can you do the job?". I am for returning to that standard.


I 100% Agree.
 
2014-03-18 09:48:06 AM  
The day drug dealers accept plastic is the day I will stop having to refer to articles like these as excuses for why I like to carry around a lot of cash all the time.
 
2014-03-18 09:48:25 AM  
pbs.twimg.com

"Millenials! Hipsters!" *shakes cane, loses teeth*
 
GBB
2014-03-18 09:49:51 AM  

Yankees Team Gynecologist: Serious, nonjudgmental question for those out there who have ever actually borrowed on a credit card (i.e., did not pay it off every month): why did you do it? Did you lack shopping discipline at the time? Did you simply not understand how the card worked? Were you in a bind and needed the money?

To many it's a no-brainer to use a card in a disciplined manner and pay it off every month so that you build credit, collect rewards, and have fraud protection without paying any interest or fees. But enough people refute this notion such that it must not be as simple as it sounds. Some CSBs might help bridge the gap of understanding.


Well, here's a serious answer.  When I headed off to college, my father got me my own credit card with his bank.  It was my own account that was secured to his.  Kind of like a co-signer; if I defaulted, he was responsible.  Limit was $500 + annual fee.  I didn't use it all that much, because it had such a low limit.  I had my own job, but up to this point, never had my own expenses.  He paid for my housing while I was in college, so I only had to worry about utilities.

On campus, every semester, they would have events and the ubiquitous credit card sign-up tables.  I got myself a Discover card and used it sparingly.  Then the offers started pouring in.  I ended up with a total of 4 accounts, and I started using them.  The minimum payments seemed so reasonable!   I started off paying more than the minimum, but less than the balance.  Soon, I had hundreds on credit.  Then the limit increases came in, and the rate reductions.  It was awesome!   I spent more and carried higher and higher balances.   I got myself one of the first Palm Pilots on credit.  It was fantastic.  The beauty was, I got stuff I wanted without having to pay for it right away.  Even better was that I had my own money that I could use with enough left over to pay the minimum balance as well as the utilities I shared with 3 others at school.  But, college didn't go so well for me and I was academically suspended for 2 semesters.  Didn't go back for several years.  I pretty much had no discipline.

Eventually, I started looking into how to make these credit cards go away and ended up only caring about making the payments smaller.  Consolidation was the answer.  So, I ended up transferring balances and making 1 small payment.  But, look at all that unused credit.  I put an expensive cruise vacation on credit.  It was well deserved.   And a new laptop.  I still had no discipline.

Would you care to guess the balance when it all came crashing down??

Sixteen grand.... on a fifteen grand limit.    And I was in default.

This was also after I cleared out a $5K IRA that was gifted to me at my high school graduation.  That sixteen grand was consolidated to one account and put on internal collections.  The credit card company worked with me and refunded a lot of racked up fees, closed the account to future purchases, and reduced the interest quite a bit.  I paid it off in 4 years and never carried a balance with any card ever again.  I went back to college and got a BA in accounting.  I started developing my own discipline.


My issue was that I had absolutely no guidance as to how to handle finances.  I thought I could deal with it on my own.  I never asked for help.

I now have excellent credit and decent savings going.  And I have much more discipline.
 
2014-03-18 09:51:12 AM  

GBB: This was also after I cleared out a $5K IRA that was gifted to me at my high school graduation.


I'm glad for the turnaround and I really believe that some people who get into a little trouble are better off for it.

How do you gift an IRA? Was inherited?
 
2014-03-18 09:51:25 AM  

RottenEggs: illannoyin: Isn't the millennium only 14 years old?

/I don't really understand how that whole generation naming thing works

I thought Gen X refered to youth dealing with the aftermath of WW2 .


Baby Boomers: 1945-1965
Gen X: 1966-1986
Gen Y: 1987-2000
New Millennium: 2001-

Generations usually run 20 years. Baby Boomers: War causes people to have children. It's a natural reaction. Gen X wasn't effected by WW2 in anyway; our parents were. Gen X (I'm one of them) was effected by MTV and the Reagan Presidency. Gen Y was effected by cell phones and 24 hour news programs. The New Millennium started off bad (9/11/2001), hopefully it will end on a happier note.
 
2014-03-18 09:52:32 AM  
images.thetruthaboutcars.com
Good for them.

/GenXer
//$0.00 CC balance
/// pissed a lot of money down that rabbit hole.
 
2014-03-18 09:55:59 AM  

macross87: You did. I'm the cremated fetus in a display case.


Quinn?!

LOOKIN' GOOD!
 
2014-03-18 09:58:41 AM  

RockofAges: Keep the money in the family.


Meh, depends on the family.  My mother's word is good and she has a martyr complex to boot, so while she's a materialistic self-loathing delusional bigot she's otherwise the antithesis of a Baby Boomer in that she at least doesn't want to be part of a shiat-stained legacy.

But I wouldn't recommend it for everyone.  A lot of people have family that would gladly accept the offer, then screw their progeny twice by getting the reverse mortgage anyway.  They get double the fun money, the house comes down to a battle between someone holding a will and a bank holding a loan.  And in that battle, the bank never loses.  Odds are it puts the "beneficiaries" on the hook to pay off the family debts.
 
2014-03-18 09:59:44 AM  

reprobate1125: BTW, I don't know if you were trolling, but if you really did get an MBA, was it worth it?


I took two years out of the workforce to get an MBA. I did NOT pursue the MBA so that I could get a role in finance, I pursued the MBA because I took zero business classes (unless Micro/Macro econ is considered a business class - I have yet to find a situation where I'm required to discuss pareto optimality in the business world). My area of specialization was corporate/business strategy, which gave me wide exposure to virtually every track (finance, marketing, IT, HR, etc.)

It wasn't (completely) worth it.

While the fact that I have an MBA has come up in a few conversations/interviews, I firmly believe that I would know exactly what I know now had I simply made a trip to the library or local B&N and picked up a few books on each area of focus. Better yet: if I  actively pursued first-hand experience in these areas within my industry, I most likely would have figured out exactly what I need/don't need to know (I use managerial account almost as much as I use my extensive knowledge of pareto optimality: never).

Before you commit to pursuing an MBA full-time or even part-time, I'd offer up the following advice: decide what you want to be when you grow up. Not a vague sense of a 'I think it's my end goal', but a sharply defined target. Then, if you're able, do what you can to learn about that role first-hand and work at it. You may surprise yourself with how far you get. At that point, revisit the decision. If you really think it'll help (you'll know for certain at that stage), go for it.

Though I don't have any wild regrets over obtaining the degree, I would rather not have student loans and I'd gladly take back the two years I spent out of the industry.

Just my 2 cents.
 
2014-03-18 10:01:48 AM  
There is a very old and moldy crock of sh*t in American culture that asserts that as soon as your junk works and you get a drivers license, it's your turn to be special.  If only.
 
2014-03-18 10:04:01 AM  

emarche: reprobate1125: BTW, I don't know if you were trolling, but if you really did get an MBA, was it worth it?

I took two years out of the workforce to get an MBA. I did NOT pursue the MBA so that I could get a role in finance, I pursued the MBA because I took zero business classes (unless Micro/Macro econ is considered a business class - I have yet to find a situation where I'm required to discuss pareto optimality in the business world). My area of specialization was corporate/business strategy, which gave me wide exposure to virtually every track (finance, marketing, IT, HR, etc.)

It wasn't (completely) worth it.

While the fact that I have an MBA has come up in a few conversations/interviews, I firmly believe that I would know exactly what I know now had I simply made a trip to the library or local B&N and picked up a few books on each area of focus. Better yet: if I  actively pursued first-hand experience in these areas within my industry, I most likely would have figured out exactly what I need/don't need to know (I use managerial account almost as much as I use my extensive knowledge of pareto optimality: never).

Before you commit to pursuing an MBA full-time or even part-time, I'd offer up the following advice: decide what you want to be when you grow up. Not a vague sense of a 'I think it's my end goal', but a sharply defined target. Then, if you're able, do what you can to learn about that role first-hand and work at it. You may surprise yourself with how far you get. At that point, revisit the decision. If you really think it'll help (you'll know for certain at that stage), go for it.

Though I don't have any wild regrets over obtaining the degree, I would rather not have student loans and I'd gladly take back the two years I spent out of the industry.

Just my 2 cents.


Thanks for the input. I read/listen to every good business book I can get my hands on and I've done pretty well so far. I think I'll go MBA if I ever have a job that pays/partially pays for it.
 
2014-03-18 10:08:34 AM  
Did it ever occur to anybody that in a functional culture with a functional economy, the rule of the day wouldn't be sharpening your minefield navigation skills in order to come with a better con that will let you hit 70 with a roof, meds and running water?  The latter of which, atm, I don't thave because thieves broke into my duplex last night ans stripped all the copper pipe out while I and my downstairs flatmate were at work.  I blame boomers.
 
2014-03-18 10:09:04 AM  

RockofAges: I'm '84. Generation X mostly reminds me of DE-Generation X.

/two words for ya? anyone?



SUCK IT!!
*Does D-Gen X Arm Motions*


/Gen X, But not De-Gen X
 
2014-03-18 10:10:12 AM  
Not enough money to have credit cards??! WTF? Pass the crack, subby.
 
2014-03-18 10:10:50 AM  

reprobate1125: I really believe that some people who get into a little trouble are better off for it.


If that was universally true then no pilot would ever survive flight training.
 
2014-03-18 10:13:28 AM  

reprobate1125: emarche: reprobate1125: BTW, I don't know if you were trolling, but if you really did get an MBA, was it worth it?

I took two years out of the workforce to get an MBA. I did NOT pursue the MBA so that I could get a role in finance, I pursued the MBA because I took zero business classes (unless Micro/Macro econ is considered a business class - I have yet to find a situation where I'm required to discuss pareto optimality in the business world). My area of specialization was corporate/business strategy, which gave me wide exposure to virtually every track (finance, marketing, IT, HR, etc.)

It wasn't (completely) worth it.

While the fact that I have an MBA has come up in a few conversations/interviews, I firmly believe that I would know exactly what I know now had I simply made a trip to the library or local B&N and picked up a few books on each area of focus. Better yet: if I  actively pursued first-hand experience in these areas within my industry, I most likely would have figured out exactly what I need/don't need to know (I use managerial account almost as much as I use my extensive knowledge of pareto optimality: never).

Before you commit to pursuing an MBA full-time or even part-time, I'd offer up the following advice: decide what you want to be when you grow up. Not a vague sense of a 'I think it's my end goal', but a sharply defined target. Then, if you're able, do what you can to learn about that role first-hand and work at it. You may surprise yourself with how far you get. At that point, revisit the decision. If you really think it'll help (you'll know for certain at that stage), go for it.

Though I don't have any wild regrets over obtaining the degree, I would rather not have student loans and I'd gladly take back the two years I spent out of the industry.

Just my 2 cents.

Thanks for the input. I read/listen to every good business book I can get my hands on and I've done pretty well so far. I think I'll go MBA if I ever have a job that pays/partially ...


That sounds like a very smart plan - good luck!!
 
2014-03-18 10:19:08 AM  

dragonchild: If that was universally true then no pilot would ever survive flight training.


Some people. Little trouble.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/some?s=t
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/little?s=t
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/universally?s=t
 
2014-03-18 10:21:08 AM  
As a financial counselor I hope this trend continues. I'm not anti-credit card or anti-debt-card, but I see the issues tied to their abuse on a daily basis. Credit card debt is still a huge problem. And the big problem with debit cards is the overdraft aspects that many people opt into and cost them big bucks.
 
2014-03-18 10:25:29 AM  

GBB: My issue was that I had absolutely no guidance as to how to handle finances.


I hate this excuse. I had no guidance, either, but I managed to not run up the credit cards. I've had at least one card since I was a teenager and only ever carried a balance when I had an introductory 0% offer. What magic handling did this require? Spending < Earning. The alligator eats the big one. That's it! That's everything.

I understand when people get in trouble because they lost their job, took a pay cut, had unexpected expenses, or some other hardship, but running up the bill because you don't understand how a less than sign works doesn't happen due to lack of guidance. It happens because you're stupid.
 
2014-03-18 10:28:12 AM  

rumpelstiltskin: illannoyin: Isn't the millennium only 14 years old?

/I don't really understand how that whole generation naming thing works

The millennials are the generation that "came of age" at the turn of the century. We say "came of age", because while other generations may have "grown up", the millennials just sort of stumbled from birthday to birthday. But that's beside the point. Another cohort is hot on their heels and will be entering the workforce in five years or so, and we don't have a name for them yet. I know everyone has a lot on his plate at the moment, and we don't have to solve this problem right away, but we should be looking for ideas. I'm sure the millennials want to start making fun of someone else as soon as possible, and we'll need to have a name ready to go.


Let's get on the stick, people.  How can we sneeringly hate people if we don't have a name for them?

/Boomer
//Soon to be euthanised
 
2014-03-18 10:29:00 AM  

Cerebral Ballsy: The Muthaship: Good.

Grown ups carry cash.

I'm proud of you.

I have a coworker trying to date me who doesn't use cash, even small amounts.

/I won't even be your friend if you're one of those annoying-ass people


Agreed. I'll cover you once or twice if we go somewhere like a food truck and all you have is a debit card.

After I have to then run you to an ATM to get me back, because you keep "forgetting" to get some cash...

I just stop inviting you.
 
2014-03-18 10:29:12 AM  

reprobate1125: macross87: reprobate1125: Snarcoleptic_Hoosier: Of course, student loans that equal about a car payment don't help either.

And you can't bankrupt out of the loans for that psychology degree.

What about for my MBA or Accounting degree?

Can't bankrupt out of that either :) But at least I'm guessing that was a better investment.

BTW, I don't know if you were trolling, but if you really did get an MBA, was it worth it?

I would love to get one, but there is such a glut right now.  I know I'd have to specialize. Just curious.


I can shed some light on this.  My company is a supplier for a bunch of multinationals and one of them sent over a group of their management class to see how things worked at our place.  EVERY single one of them has an MBA on top of their engineering degree or some such other undergrad degree.  Other customers about the same size or larger seem to be on the same kick if you want to go anywhere and aren't already over 30 and have established yourself within the organization already.  I'm not sure if that's a representative sample of the world at large but I found it pretty shocking.
 
GBB
2014-03-18 10:30:07 AM  

reprobate1125: GBB: This was also after I cleared out a $5K IRA that was gifted to me at my high school graduation.

I'm glad for the turnaround and I really believe that some people who get into a little trouble are better off for it.

How do you gift an IRA? Was inherited?


Go to bank, say "I want to set up an IRA for [insert name] in the amount of $X.XX"
 
2014-03-18 10:32:30 AM  
wac.450f.edgecastcdn.net

This is Steve.  Steve's future is screwed because of banksters.

www.collegebeing.com

This is Bob.  Bob's future is screwed because of banksters.

data3.whicdn.com

Meet Edna and Stan.  They are utterly hosed because of banskters.

Place your selfie here.
 
2014-03-18 10:34:39 AM  

lilbjorn: Let's get on the stick, people.  How can we sneeringly hate people if we don't have a name for them?

/Boomer
//Soon to be euthanised


Yeah, you can't trust people to just barf up the the common wisdom, these days.  Damn kids.
 
GBB
2014-03-18 10:34:50 AM  

thurstonxhowell: GBB: My issue was that I had absolutely no guidance as to how to handle finances.

I hate this excuse. I had no guidance, either, but I managed to not run up the credit cards. I've had at least one card since I was a teenager and only ever carried a balance when I had an introductory 0% offer. What magic handling did this require? Spending < Earning. The alligator eats the big one. That's it! That's everything.

I understand when people get in trouble because they lost their job, took a pay cut, had unexpected expenses, or some other hardship, but running up the bill because you don't understand how a less than sign works doesn't happen due to lack of guidance. It happens because you're stupid.


So, finances is an instinctive trait in your species?   Welcome to Earth.  We humans are born with very little instincts.  Generally, everything we know, we had to learn.
 
2014-03-18 10:40:33 AM  

GBB: Go to bank, say "I want to set up an IRA for [insert name] in the amount of $X.XX"


That's illegal.  IRAs are for earned income only...and banks are bad places to do them.

Unless you had earned income in high school that was enough to qualify for the contributions to that IRA.
 
2014-03-18 11:02:10 AM  
BumpInTheNight: ...  I still like to collect coins though, pennies particularly.  I keep them between my butt cheeks for a few days and then fill up those take a penny leave a penny dishes, you are welcome. ...


My week started off poorly and this made me laugh.  Thank you for the chuckle.
 
GBB
2014-03-18 11:03:34 AM  

reprobate1125: GBB: Go to bank, say "I want to set up an IRA for [insert name] in the amount of $X.XX"

That's illegal.  IRAs are for earned income only...and banks are bad places to do them.

Unless you had earned income in high school that was enough to qualify for the contributions to that IRA.


Eh... maybe it was a CD.
 
2014-03-18 11:08:24 AM  

RockofAges: You do not have fraud protection. See above link.


That happened in Canada. Do they have the same liability laws as the US?

/in fact, the US will probably go chip and signature (instead of PIN) precisely because of those.
 
2014-03-18 11:09:01 AM  

Yankees Team Gynecologist: Serious, nonjudgmental question for those out there who have ever actually borrowed on a credit card (i.e., did not pay it off every month): why did you do it? Did you lack shopping discipline at the time? Did you simply not understand how the card worked? Were you in a bind and needed the money?

To many it's a no-brainer to use a card in a disciplined manner and pay it off every month so that you build credit, collect rewards, and have fraud protection without paying any interest or fees. But enough people refute this notion such that it must not be as simple as it sounds. Some CSBs might help bridge the gap of understanding.


There are more than one way that this happens.
In some cases, people will get a card, in opes that it really is just some sort of bufer "just in case", or a means of building credit.  But many times, that "just in case" actually happens, and you end up with an insurmountable debt.  The cycle being that you pay what you can afford ($50 say), and get charged $49.50 in interest.  So you'll never pay it down.

This happened when my son was born, and ended up in the hospital for a month.  We owed the hospital $90k.  That sucked.  We had to file bankruptcy to finally get rid of the debt.

Zoom forward to today.  We went for about 3 years with NO cards at all.  I just recently got a high-interest Credit One card, with the specific intention of using it to rebuild our credit.  So far so good.  We pay it all off (except like $20), every month.  They keep raising our credit limit.  Of course we hope we never have to use it.

I will always find it odd the way that credit works in this world.  You NEED credit to get good credit.  You pay through the nose to get that good credit.  In other words, the less you NEED credit the more it will cost you to get it.  The MORE you need credit, the more it will cost you.
That sucks.
 
2014-03-18 11:13:54 AM  
Ever try to buy illegal shiat with a CC?  Things like moonshine, weed, raw milk, etc.  Cash will always beat a CC because it allows you to be free
 
2014-03-18 11:14:20 AM  
I use a lot of cash because I earn tips at my job and it's not always convenient to get all that money to the bank. Paychecks are used on rent, bills, etc, since those are direct deposit anyway.
 
2014-03-18 11:19:54 AM  
I thought most millennials worked for tips and didn't report most income anyway.
 
2014-03-18 11:20:55 AM  

trappedspirit: I thought most millennials worked for tips and didn't report most income anyway.


They're at most 14 years old so you know, kind of limited options there.
 
2014-03-18 11:23:08 AM  

quantum_csc: 9. Buying stuff online is extremely difficult without a credit card, and you can find most things cheaper online (saving you more money).


Buying stuff online is super easy with debit cards though.
 
2014-03-18 11:37:25 AM  

allylloyd: RottenEggs: illannoyin: Isn't the millennium only 14 years old?

/I don't really understand how that whole generation naming thing works

I thought Gen X refered to youth dealing with the aftermath of WW2 .

Baby Boomers: 1945-1965
Gen X: 1966-1986
Gen Y: 1987-2000
New Millennium: 2001-

Generations usually run 20 years. Baby Boomers: War causes people to have children. It's a natural reaction. Gen X wasn't effected by WW2 in anyway; our parents were. Gen X (I'm one of them) was effected by MTV and the Reagan Presidency. Gen Y was effected by cell phones and 24 hour news programs. The New Millennium started off bad (9/11/2001), hopefully it will end on a happier note.


Robert Capa would disagree ?

upload.wikimedia.org
 
2014-03-18 11:45:22 AM  
www.orangejuiceblog.com
 
2014-03-18 11:46:43 AM  

GBB: So, finances is an instinctive trait in your species?   Welcome to Earth.  We humans are born with very little instincts.  Generally, everything we know, we had to learn.


Humans are born with A LOT of instincts. Being born with instincts is quite literally the very reason that animals are able to survive. Instincts get you by until one is able to learn and then add that knowledge to the instincts. Instincts are there from cradle to the grave.

I'm a Millenial. I had virtually no training with finances. I figured it out as I went and took a moment to think before I acted. I've only ever had 1 credit card. It's been over a decade and I've never overdrawn on it. If I see something I want but shouldn't buy at that point in time, I don't. Simple as that. "No one told me not to" isn't a valid excuse here for going into massive debt over frivolous things. It doesn't take much thought to figure out the basics. The advanced stuff can be learned through a myriad of means. One just needs to have the thought and willingness to learn in the first place. That cannot be taught. That is innate.

"On campus, every semester, they would have events and the ubiquitous credit card sign-up tables.  I got myself a Discover card and used it sparingly.  Then the offers started pouring in.  I ended up with a total of 4 accounts, and I started using them.  The minimum payments seemed so reasonable!   I started off paying more than the minimum, but less than the balance.  Soon, I had hundreds on credit. "

"But, look at all that unused credit.  I put an expensive cruise vacation on credit.  It was well deserved.   And a new laptop.  I still had no discipline."

No amount of classes or conversations with parents/teachers/etc will change what happened there. That right there is poor impulse control and an inability to think ahead. That is poor instincts. Training cannot overwrite the inability to follow said training. If everything you need is in a box you have to actually open the farking box first.

So, yes, this basically is an instinctive trait. You had bad instincts. Stop projecting your bad traits on the rest of us.

Before I buy any "big ticket" item I go though these questions. "Do I need this? Do I want it enough if I don't? Can I afford this right now? If I afford this right now will it be a problem or reduce my ability to afford other needed things in the future?"

It's the same thought process that I've had since I was 15 and had my first job. My mother is awful with money. I didn't learn anything from her. My highschools were a joke with econ classes. That general thought process of mine is instinct. Just because you "can" doesn't mean you should. That's impulse control. That's innate. Hell, I came across a story a while back about a financialadviser who had a problem with staying in debt because he couldn't control his spending. That's not too unusual of a story. If your instincts are bad enough then no amount of training will override that.

You got into debt because of you. Stop blaming others for not stopping you. Own your situation, for farks sake.
 
2014-03-18 11:52:06 AM  

Freudian_slipknot: Cerebral Ballsy: The Muthaship: Good.

Grown ups carry cash.

I'm proud of you.

I have a coworker trying to date me who doesn't use cash, even small amounts.

/I won't even be your friend if you're one of those annoying-ass people

That's a super cool thing to be really upset about.

Personally, I use a card for everything.  Even super-small purchases.  Everything auto-pays onto the card, including utilities where possible.

At the end of the month, I have an accurate history of exactly where my money was spent and I pay off the card.

I have an exact history down to the penny of my spending habits, down to how often I grab fast food at lunch or how much I've spent on shoes in the last 5 years.  It definitely helps when trying to find places where I could slim down the budget instead of looking at an empty wallet at the end of the week and trying to remember where it all disappeared to or sorting through a handful of crumpled receipts.

I've never been in debt, other than my mortgage.  I've never even take a car loan.  But because of my solid history with my card, I was in the top-tier for credit rating when I applied for that mortgage.

I have never in my life carried a balance over on my card or paid a single cent in interest on those charges.

tl;dr You're ridiculous for judging someone using a card without knowing the details.

/born in 82.  Technically a millennial, I guess.


---
Just curious: Do you carry a back-up card in case that one gets lost/stolen/compromised?

/had my ccard# used to buy electronics in Detroit while I was on a 9000 mile plane ride (so had no problem proving it wasn't me) but was glad I had another ccard to use.
///has never lived anywhere near Detroit
 
2014-03-18 12:07:49 PM  
nanim:
---
Just curious: Do you carry a back-up card in case that one gets lost/stolen/compromised?

/had my ccard# used to buy electronics in Detroit while I was on a 9000 mile plane ride (so had no problem proving it wasn't me) but was glad I had another ccard to use.
///has never lived anywhere near Detroit


I have a debit card for that issue, should it become necessary.  Otherwise, the only use the debit gets is the occasional Costco run when I can get someone to let me sponge off their membership.

Had my CC number stolen a few years back, on Christmas Eve.  Got a phone call from my bank that night (feel sorry for the guy working xmas eve) and they had a new card overnighted to me (came the day after xmas).   Considering the timing, I didn't actually need to use a card during that couple of days.

I do occasionally pull out cash for cash-only places or when going out with a big group knowing I'll need to split the bill.  But I can manually amend the withdrawl entry online with my bank to indicate what it was for and spent on so it works in my system.
 
2014-03-18 12:18:21 PM  
Is this the thread where farkers say they have a credit score of 851 because they use their credit cards for specific expenses and pay off the balance each month?  Of course, you automatically pay the minimum by automatic transaction as well just for kicks.  Don't forget to mention that you use your lower interest (prime less .4%) line of credit for large purchases.  Yes, you have the money for it but you pay it off in three monthly installments to further boost your credit score.

Of course you keep +$1,000 cash on hand in case of emergencies, and we already knew that you had an additional three months worth of income in a high interest savings account and a well funded retirement plan.  Yes, we know it's really easy to do this when you have a detailed monthly budget clearly setting out your disposable income while setting aside 20% of your gross income for retirement.

/No?
//Well I guess I'll be that guy then
///1985 "Millennial"
 
2014-03-18 12:19:07 PM  

macross87: pottie: macross87: Euthanizing BabyBoomers helps to free up that medical burden too

We should have aborted you

You did. I'm the cremated fetus in a display case.


That's a pile of cat litter.
 
2014-03-18 12:21:56 PM  

GBB: thurstonxhowell: GBB: My issue was that I had absolutely no guidance as to how to handle finances.

I hate this excuse. I had no guidance, either, but I managed to not run up the credit cards. 

So, finances is an instinctive trait in your species?   Welcome to Earth.  We humans are born with very little instincts.  Generally, everything we know, we had to learn.


I was lucky in terms of guidance.  Basically, at nearly any point where there was a financial decision, I asked myself "would my parents have done this?"  And, if they would have done it, that's exactly what I didn't do.  They were a powerful counter-example.
 
2014-03-18 12:23:03 PM  

HindiDiscoMonster: The Muthaship: Good.

Grown ups carry cash.

I'm proud of you.

If I get robbed of my cash, how do I get it back?

oooh right... no protection on that... I will continue to use my debit/VISA thanks... rob me of that, I get the money back by 5pm same day.


That is why you get a concealed carry permit.
 
2014-03-18 12:26:07 PM  

BumpInTheNight: trappedspirit: I thought most millennials worked for tips and didn't report most income anyway.

They're at most 14 years old so you know, kind of limited options there.


The absolute youngest of them would be 14
 
2014-03-18 12:26:39 PM  

D135: Is this the thread where farkers say they have a credit score of 851 because they use their credit cards for specific expenses and pay off the balance each month?  Of course, you automatically pay the minimum by automatic transaction as well just for kicks.  Don't forget to mention that you use your lower interest (prime less .4%) line of credit for large purchases.  Yes, you have the money for it but you pay it off in three monthly installments to further boost your credit score.

Of course you keep +$1,000 cash on hand in case of emergencies, and we already knew that you had an additional three months worth of income in a high interest savings account and a well funded retirement plan.  Yes, we know it's really easy to do this when you have a detailed monthly budget clearly setting out your disposable income while setting aside 20% of your gross income for retirement.

/No?
//Well I guess I'll be that guy then
///1985 "Millennial"


This made me laugh. Thank you.

/it is in every CCard thread I've ever read here.
 
2014-03-18 12:28:05 PM  

CtrlAltDestroy: GBB: So, finances is an instinctive trait in your species?   Welcome to Earth.  We humans are born with very little instincts.  Generally, everything we know, we had to learn.

Humans are born with A LOT of instincts. Being born with instincts is quite literally the very reason that animals are able to survive. Instincts get you by until one is able to learn and then add that knowledge to the instincts. Instincts are there from cradle to the grave.

I'm a Millenial. I had virtually no training with finances. I figured it out as I went and took a moment to think before I acted. I've only ever had 1 credit card. It's been over a decade and I've never overdrawn on it. If I see something I want but shouldn't buy at that point in time, I don't. Simple as that. "No one told me not to" isn't a valid excuse here for going into massive debt over frivolous things. It doesn't take much thought to figure out the basics. The advanced stuff can be learned through a myriad of means. One just needs to have the thought and willingness to learn in the first place. That cannot be taught. That is innate.

"On campus, every semester, they would have events and the ubiquitous credit card sign-up tables.  I got myself a Discover card and used it sparingly.  Then the offers started pouring in.  I ended up with a total of 4 accounts, and I started using them.  The minimum payments seemed so reasonable!   I started off paying more than the minimum, but less than the balance.  Soon, I had hundreds on credit. "


As a gen-Xer, I did just that. Signed up for multiple credit cards because of booths like that. I made minimum payments until I could afford to pay off more. I learned more about personal finances in two years because of that experience than anyone ever taught me beforehand. I don't think it was because I was innately gifted with good math skills or self-control. I don't claim either one. It was because I saw what it was doing to my account balance every month on my bills.

I learned how to game the system to get better and better perks from my cc companies. I've paid off my cc bills every month for the past twenty years or so, and I've used them as often as possible. Additionally, I could give a shiat if "they" track my purchases. Who cares?
 
2014-03-18 12:32:06 PM  

GBB: Eh... maybe it was a CD.


Ok. I wasn't pushing you...I was just really confused.
 
2014-03-18 12:39:17 PM  
[ring ring] Hello

BoA: Mr Degenz this is Bank of America, we want our money.

Me: You mean the outlandish fees, penalties and interest you charged? Go f*ck yourself.

BoA: We'll ruin your credit and sue you.

Me: Bring it, asshole.

[click]

I just went and got another bank account sans credit card. Eight years later I haven't paid them a dime. The debt has been removed from my credit report and they can't sue me because they don't know where I live. I would have been happy to pay them if they weren't such greedy dickheads exploiting a bad situation.
 
2014-03-18 12:41:47 PM  

The Muthaship: Good.

Grown ups carry cash.

I'm proud of you.


What's a grown UPS?
 
2014-03-18 12:57:54 PM  
The only thing I buy with cash is Drugs.
 
2014-03-18 01:00:44 PM  

reprobate1125: Snarcoleptic_Hoosier: Of course, student loans that equal about a car payment don't help either.

And you can't bankrupt out of the loans for that psychology degree.


Personally, I would be cool with a federal repossession option for student loans, a la tire iron to the head.

"No, please! I have a Masters in Ancient Liter.... -WHACK- I'M GOING TO EAT MY CAR KEYS!!"
 
2014-03-18 01:32:44 PM  
IMHO, I wouldn't be surprised if this "trend" is the result of millennial doing under-the-table jobs for extra cash.

Having one job just insist cutting it anymore, you need side income to survive with stagnant wages and rising costs. Minimum wage is so low it almost isn't worth it to get a night-time or weekend job. Under the table is really your only option.

/Need to start something, immigration and a layoff made me so broke
//Slowly climbing back to the top
 
2014-03-18 01:38:25 PM  

Degenz: I would have been happy to pay them if they weren't such greedy dickheads exploiting a bad situation.


You would have never paid them. People like you always blame someone else for their bad decisions, following up with conflating some perceived injustice out of thin air to avoid your responsibilities.

You're "mad" at them so you don't have to pay them. I get it. I know people like you.
 
2014-03-18 02:12:29 PM  

shortymac: IMHO, I wouldn't be surprised if this "trend" is the result of millennial doing under-the-table jobs for extra cash.

Having one job just insist cutting it anymore, you need side income to survive with stagnant wages and rising costs. Minimum wage is so low it almost isn't worth it to get a night-time or weekend job. Under the table is really your only option.

/Need to start something, immigration and a layoff made me so broke
//Slowly climbing back to the top


Makes you wonder when sh*t is actually going to hit the fan.

/I expected OWS to stay in the news longer than it did and change more than it did.
 
2014-03-18 02:33:11 PM  

Geoff Peterson: I get it. I know people like you.


And I know people like you.  :  )
 
2014-03-18 03:26:14 PM  

RockofAges: bunner: RockofAges: bunner: By the way, as far as functional societies go, the guy selling "F*cking old people f*cking f*cked everything up and sh*, dude!" doesn't exactly look look like Solutions Man©

Hand over the reigns and see how it's done. Until then, grip them with your wrinkled fingers until your surburban illusion collapses. You guys farked it up. Granddad's generation didn't.

It's spelled "reins" and I have some rather unpleasant news to impart.  There are no reins.  And if there were, they sure as hell wouldn't be in the hands of any given group because of what year they were born.  Time Life really *isn't* the most accurate historical reference.

Yeah, too much wine last night, speak and spell. And yes, generations hold power due to their age. I'm pretty sure despite your protestations that there are very few Millenials making policy, or at the "reins" of power.

Look man, it's nothing against you personally. Just like I said about my own folks. Exceptions to the rule. But the rule is -- the boomers as a generation were handed everything. Economic prosperity, free love, and a fake hippy movement (keep in mind that Gen X / Millenials -- 80s kids -- are the ones that, ironically enough are going to legalize the demon weed) and still sold out your own countrymen AND your children.

Yeah, the "greatest generation" didn't do that. They fought a goddamn war against Hitler and then passed a bright torch to your generation, where it was smothered and sold off to China and some guys in suits for the promise of "security". It is awfully nice in suburbia. Quiet. That sort of thing.


Millennials are 80's kids now?
 
2014-03-18 03:33:34 PM  

themindiswatching: shortymac: IMHO, I wouldn't be surprised if this "trend" is the result of millennial doing under-the-table jobs for extra cash.

Having one job just insist cutting it anymore, you need side income to survive with stagnant wages and rising costs. Minimum wage is so low it almost isn't worth it to get a night-time or weekend job. Under the table is really your only option.

/Need to start something, immigration and a layoff made me so broke
//Slowly climbing back to the top

Makes you wonder when sh*t is actually going to hit the fan.

/I expected OWS to stay in the news longer than it did and change more than it did.


Quite frankly, I think it's changing but it's going to be slowwwwwwww.  You can't exactly protest if you are too terrified of being fired from your McJob to take a few days off.

The problem is going to be that the republican party is still being run by older boomers who are terrified of ANY change, even if it screws them over. The millennials are roughly the same size of the boomers, so it's going to get politically interesting in the next 2 decades.

However, a lot of boomers didn't save enough for retirement and/or got screwed with the 2008 crash. A lot of their "wealth" is tied up in their houses and if their kids don't have good enough jobs to buy a house, both sides are going to get screwed. You're going to see the return of multi-generational families.

If incomes don't start rising soon, EVERYONE is going to get screwed. Companies are resisting this because they are focused on the short-term, in the long-term companies are shooting themselves in the foot if they don't have enough money to buy your products. They should remember the lesson Henry Ford taught us.
 
2014-03-18 03:42:57 PM  

D135: an additional three months worth of income in a high interest savings account


Wait, where can you find one of those these days?! I don't think any of them even break 1% these days, do they?
 
GBB
2014-03-18 04:31:22 PM  

CtrlAltDestroy: GBB: So, finances is an instinctive trait in your species?   Welcome to Earth.  We humans are born with very little instincts.  Generally, everything we know, we had to learn.

Humans are born with A LOT of instincts. Being born with instincts is quite literally the very reason that animals are able to survive. Instincts get you by until one is able to learn and then add that knowledge to the instincts. Instincts are there from cradle to the grave.

I'm a Millenial. I had virtually no training with finances. I figured it out as I went and took a moment to think before I acted. I've only ever had 1 credit card. It's been over a decade and I've never overdrawn on it. If I see something I want but shouldn't buy at that point in time, I don't. Simple as that. "No one told me not to" isn't a valid excuse here for going into massive debt over frivolous things. It doesn't take much thought to figure out the basics. The advanced stuff can be learned through a myriad of means. One just needs to have the thought and willingness to learn in the first place. That cannot be taught. That is innate.

"On campus, every semester, they would have events and the ubiquitous credit card sign-up tables.  I got myself a Discover card and used it sparingly.  Then the offers started pouring in.  I ended up with a total of 4 accounts, and I started using them.  The minimum payments seemed so reasonable!   I started off paying more than the minimum, but less than the balance.  Soon, I had hundreds on credit. "

"But, look at all that unused credit.  I put an expensive cruise vacation on credit.  It was well deserved.   And a new laptop.  I still had no discipline."

No amount of classes or conversations with parents/teachers/etc will change what happened there. That right there is poor impulse control and an inability to think ahead. That is poor instincts. Training cannot overwrite the inability to follow said training. If everything you need is in a box you have to actually open the farking ...


You should probably calm the fark down and go back home.
The point of what I wrote was to answer a question, not to whine about what happened in my life.
Congrats to farking you for figuring shait out earlier in life than I did.  Where do you want me to mail the cookie?
 
2014-03-18 04:32:17 PM  

The Muthaship: Grown ups carry cash.


carry cash.  I rarely have under $50.  But, I manage to go from about October to March with the exact same $50.  Seriously, I can think of one cash transaction I've made since Christmas.

The other half of the year, there's farmer's markets, garage sales, food trucks at fairs and music festivals, etc.  I use quite a bit more cash.
 
2014-03-18 06:12:53 PM  

GBB: You should probably calm the fark down and go back home.
The point of what I wrote was to answer a question, not to whine about what happened in my life.
Congrats to farking you for figuring shait out earlier in life than I did.  Where do you want me to mail the cookie?


I was completely calm. Long post do not automatically equal heightened emotions. You're not that special as to warrant that. I can be verbose. That isn't a sign of frothing at the mouth induced rage.

You may not have whined, exactly, but you did try to blame other's for your bad decisions. "My issue was that I had absolutely no guidance as to how to handle finances."

Man up and accept that you just had/have horrible impulse control and awful decision making skills. No, I didn't "figure it out" so much as I knew right off that bat to not spend what I don't have and to recognize a bad situation. Our ancestors who saw that the snake didn't want you in it's way moved away and survived. The one's whose instincts didn't recognize the warning signs got bit and died. This time you got bit, but survived. Yay modern days. Survival of the fittest has a helping hand. If you learned from the earlier mistakes, then good. It's not all for naught. Congrats, and I mean that. Not everyone learns.

Mail the cookie to yourself. You're the one who has been coming off as hostile in this thread. Although I recommend a pot brownie to help you mellow out, friend.
 
2014-03-18 06:21:08 PM  

CtrlAltDestroy: GBB: So, finances is an instinctive trait in your species?   Welcome to Earth.  We humans are born with very little instincts.  Generally, everything we know, we had to learn.

Humans are born with A LOT of instincts. Being born with instincts is quite literally the very reason that animals are able to survive. Instincts get you by until one is able to learn and then add that knowledge to the instincts. Instincts are there from cradle to the grave.

I'm a Millenial. I had virtually no training with finances. I figured it out as I went and took a moment to think before I acted. I've only ever had 1 credit card. It's been over a decade and I've never overdrawn on it. If I see something I want but shouldn't buy at that point in time, I don't. Simple as that. "No one told me not to" isn't a valid excuse here for going into massive debt over frivolous things. It doesn't take much thought to figure out the basics. The advanced stuff can be learned through a myriad of means. One just needs to have the thought and willingness to learn in the first place. That cannot be taught. That is innate.

"On campus, every semester, they would have events and the ubiquitous credit card sign-up tables.  I got myself a Discover card and used it sparingly.  Then the offers started pouring in.  I ended up with a total of 4 accounts, and I started using them.  The minimum payments seemed so reasonable!   I started off paying more than the minimum, but less than the balance.  Soon, I had hundreds on credit. "

"But, look at all that unused credit.  I put an expensive cruise vacation on credit.  It was well deserved.   And a new laptop.  I still had no discipline."

No amount of classes or conversations with parents/teachers/etc will change what happened there. That right there is poor impulse control and an inability to think ahead. That is poor instincts. Training cannot overwrite the inability to follow said training. If everything you need is in a box you have to actually open the farking ...


Awww, good job, little buddy!  Here's your participation trophy!  ;)
 
2014-03-18 07:53:33 PM  

Yankees Team Gynecologist: Serious, nonjudgmental question for those out there who have ever actually borrowed on a credit card (i.e., did not pay it off every month): why did you do it? Did you lack shopping discipline at the time? Did you simply not understand how the card worked? Were you in a bind and needed the money?



Young, dumb and full of cum?

/I got better.
//well, mostly just older
 
2014-03-19 08:51:58 AM  

Geoff Peterson: You would have never paid them. People like you always blame someone else for their bad decisions, following up with conflating some perceived injustice out of thin air to avoid your responsibilities.

You're "mad" at them so you don't have to pay them. I get it. I know people like you.


Oh look, another apologist for the shylocks masquerading as legitimate business people.
 
2014-03-19 10:52:56 AM  

Degenz: Oh look, another apologist for the shylocks masquerading as legitimate business people.


Oh look, another apologist for people who think it's perfectly ok to steal from anyone they can't see with their own eyes. Seems to me the "shylock" is the one who got ripped off, don't ya think? Yay for you.
 
2014-03-19 12:03:42 PM  

Geoff Peterson: another apologist for people who think it's perfectly ok to steal from anyone they can't see with their own eyes.


So, banks?
 
2014-03-19 02:17:17 PM  

bunner: Geoff Peterson: another apologist for people who think it's perfectly ok to steal from anyone they can't see with their own eyes.

So, banks?


Jeesh. What about this dont you get?? The bank never took anything from someone that didnt agree to do business with them somewhere in the past. Instead of shaking impotent fists of rage at "The Man" try reading your user agreement/mortgage/contract.
 
2014-03-19 02:40:00 PM  

Geoff Peterson: Degenz: Oh look, another apologist for the shylocks masquerading as legitimate business people.

Oh look, another apologist for people who think it's perfectly ok to steal from anyone they can't see with their own eyes. Seems to me the "shylock" is the one who got ripped off, don't ya think? Yay for you.


Eat a bowl of dicks. When you turn a $150 debt into $1,200 by charging outrageous fees, penalties and interest, then make harassing phone calls threatening legal action you get nothing. It's obvious you are involved in this sort of underhanded loan shark to make your living since you are talking this issue in an inordinately personal way.

I pay my debts, but I refuse to reward lying, cheating scums such as yourself. Even if it means doing without credit for seven years. I win, you lose, jackass.
 
2014-03-19 02:41:30 PM  

Geoff Peterson: bunner: Geoff Peterson: another apologist for people who think it's perfectly ok to steal from anyone they can't see with their own eyes.

So, banks?

Jeesh. What about this dont you get??



Your ponderous insistence upon defending the flagrantly obtuse and destructive business practices of disingenuous men.  There's no room for you in the getaway car.  Carry on water boy.  And remember, roll your eyes a lot.
 
2014-03-19 03:11:49 PM  

SoupJohnB: Boomer, here.  (Hold your fire!)  I fell into a deep financial hole a few years back.  Had plenty of help with the digging, but had to crawl out on my own.  I decided that the first order of business was to retire all credit card debts and stick with the pay-as-you-go plan.  I made it, but discovered that when you don't buy stuff on credit, your credit ratings suffer!


THIS RIGHT HERE^^^^ Even if you buy crap on credit and pay the cards off every month so as not to rack up interest that stalls your credit card rating too. This means you can start with a 400 and get some high rate cards and you incur little or no interest charges after 5 years of using them your credit rating might be ~450. Yet someone who has $30k in charges on eight cards can have a credit score of 720+ as long as they make every minimum payment on time. Never mind that they will eventually pay $70K on that $30k in debt... their score is "excellent" and lenders will be giving them steak and BJs to get them to take out more credit.

But the schmuck who has $50k in the bank and uses nothing but cash can't even get a house loan or a credit card because their credit score is too low. It's a perverse system where you're actually paying when you don't have to so that you can get more money when you need it.
 
2014-03-19 04:50:16 PM  

Degenz: I pay my debts, but I refuse to reward lying, cheating scums such as yourself. Even if it means doing without credit for seven years. I win, you lose, jackass.


bunner: Your ponderous insistence upon defending the flagrantly obtuse and destructive business practices of disingenuous men. There's no room for you in the getaway car. Carry on water boy. And remember, roll your eyes a lot.


You boys sound like you don't have credit cards. I wonder why.
 
2014-03-19 04:52:13 PM  

rewind2846: THIS RIGHT HERE^^^^ Even if you buy crap on credit and pay the cards off every month so as not to rack up interest that stalls your credit card rating too. This means you can start with a 400 and get some high rate cards and you incur little or no interest charges after 5 years of using them your credit rating might be ~450. Yet someone who has $30k in charges on eight cards can have a credit score of 720+ as long as they make every minimum payment on time. Never mind that they will eventually pay $70K on that $30k in debt... their score is "excellent" and lenders will be giving them steak and BJs to get them to take out more credit.

But the schmuck who has $50k in the bank and uses nothing but cash can't even get a house loan or a credit card because their credit score is too low. It's a perverse system where you're actually paying when you don't have to so that you can get more money when you need it.


It depends. If you carry an average of 20-30% if your limit and pay it off every month, you're still gold. If you only use a few % of your limit, it hurts you, though, that's true.
 
2014-03-19 04:52:55 PM  

Geoff Peterson: But the schmuck who has $50k in the bank and uses nothing but cash can't even get a house loan or a credit card because their credit score is too low. It's a perverse system where you're actually paying when you don't have to so that you can get more money when you need it.


Oh, and this here is 100% true.
 
2014-03-19 05:15:31 PM  

Geoff Peterson: You boys sound like you don't have credit cards. I wonder why.


You sound like somebody who is judgmental, dismissive and assumptive of others relative to a very narrow and convneinet view of the world that you think gives you pissing from a great height priviliges.  See?  I told you I know people like you.   :  )  And that's a wrap, Lord Sniffington.  Word to your kneepads.  *click*
 
2014-03-19 07:01:41 PM  

Geoff Peterson: You boys sound like you don't have credit cards. I wonder why.


You sound like a pimp gangsta crack dealer trying to convince everyone how legit your "money fan" is, and if they don't have one like yours they're just losers. You're whole argument seems to be that you are capable of maintaining a stable income indefinitely and nothing will ever interrupt it. And even if something happened, like you becoming disabled, or your employer going out of business, or any number of other catastrophic financial circumstances, you'd pay your bank and credit card bill no matter what because OMG having a credit card is the most important thing in the world! You'd probably put your kids in state care in foster homes before missing a credit card payment. That's your idea of "responsibility."

Banks don't make money off people who pay their credit card bills every month. Those people get a sweet deal. The credit business is a f*cking racket. And when it all came to a head in late 2007 and all the scammers got bailed out by the government was it fixed? No, they kept paying bonuses to the crooks with tax payer money.

And you have the temerity to lecture anyone about "personal responsibility?" You're probably disparaging poor people right now over in the politics section. Go f*ck yourself, idiot.
 
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