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(Wired)   Life finds a way: Worm evolves to eat corn genetically engineered to kill it   (wired.com) divider line 258
    More: Interesting, corn, ecological damage, genetic modifications, biotechnology company, Bacillus thuringiensis, insecticides, agricultural science, National Academy of Sciences  
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7531 clicks; posted to Main » on 18 Mar 2014 at 5:31 AM (19 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-03-18 12:07:05 AM
obivous tag was broken?
rofl
 
2014-03-18 12:20:07 AM
Ha! Suck it, Syngenta!
 
2014-03-18 12:20:46 AM
Also: creationists can suck it, too.
 
2014-03-18 12:44:49 AM
How strict are Irish immigration policies? ;p
 
2014-03-18 12:51:14 AM
Why do I get the feeling this is only going to lead to larger agricultural subsidies?
 
2014-03-18 01:41:26 AM
So, call Muad'Dib?
 
2014-03-18 03:57:57 AM
We're genetically engineering ourselves into a famine, polluting ourselves into a nasty weather feedback cycle, while simultaneously telling people that only the people who deserve to be poor are the ones starving and coughing in the streets.

The next 100 years is going to be very interesting.
 
2014-03-18 05:39:18 AM

Peki: We're genetically engineering ourselves into a famine, polluting ourselves into a nasty weather feedback cycle, while simultaneously telling people that only the people who deserve to be poor are the ones starving and coughing in the streets.

The next 100 years is going to be very interesting.


I think I have a solution.

i1.ytimg.com
 
2014-03-18 05:41:04 AM
Peki:.
The next 100 years is going to be very interesting.
i'm a babyboomer and i'm pretty damn sure i'm going to be dead by then. i don't know how old you are but they better work harder on those cancer pills, reverse ageing chambers, and throwaway body parts for you if your logan's run crystal hasn't turned red.
 
2014-03-18 05:46:58 AM
Up your corn hole, Monsanto!
 
2014-03-18 05:47:20 AM
Next 100 years....who the fark cares? Every one of us will be long dead by then. I'm pretty sure the most of fark has a little money and even less pigmentaton.
 
2014-03-18 05:48:04 AM

Peki: The next 100 years is going to be very interesting.


I somehow doubt I'll live that long, but there is no doubt that they will be interesting.

If you look back 100 years ago, you will see great technological advancements, but you will also see fools.  In 100 years, people will look back on us and also see fools.

But hey, you've got a smart phone, right?  iTunes?  All is good?
 
2014-03-18 05:48:19 AM

namatad: obivous tag was broken?
rofl


Well at least there is one person rolling on the floor laughing.

The hilarity is elusive.
 
2014-03-18 05:52:22 AM

namatad: obivous tag was broken?
rofl


I know: Let's widely plant these GMOs without adequate testing, contaminate natural strains of crops so there's no heirloom stock left to save our butts, and then sue the organic farmers into bankruptcy for stealing our shiat.
 
2014-03-18 05:52:41 AM
Well, at least it wasn't the other way around. That's when I'll start worrying.
 
2014-03-18 05:54:21 AM

starlost: Peki:.
The next 100 years is going to be very interesting.
i'm a babyboomer and i'm pretty damn sure i'm going to be dead by then. i don't know how old you are but they better work harder on those cancer pills, reverse ageing chambers, and throwaway body parts for you if your logan's run crystal hasn't turned red.


This. Almost 50 years later "hope I die before I get old" still stands, altho we've moved that finish line forward a bit. ;-)
 
2014-03-18 05:55:47 AM
Better than Clock Spiders
 
2014-03-18 05:56:05 AM

Sid_6.7: So, call Muad'Dib?


Heh. I can just picture the little tiny Fremen army riding the little tiny worms on the final assault of the Bt mother root ball.

Eventually we'll learn that we can't just "there, I fixed it" once and expect life to throw up its hands and say "Woah, I'm out".
 
2014-03-18 05:56:08 AM


img2.wikia.nocookie.net
"Toldja so!"

 
2014-03-18 05:57:22 AM

Peki: We're genetically engineering ourselves into a famine, polluting ourselves into a nasty weather feedback cycle, while simultaneously telling people that only the people who deserve to be poor are the ones starving and coughing in the streets.

The next 100 years is going to be very interesting.


Read: The Windup Girl by Paolo Bacigalupi. The story takes place after several generations of that.

All the super rich have done is earn themselves to be the last to starve when things go to shiat. They cause the problems, then blame the people affected by those problems for suffering the effects the problems they created. They would happily murder 2/3 of the human race rather than admit they're farking the world up.
 
2014-03-18 06:09:13 AM
Checkmate, evolution-deniers.
 
2014-03-18 06:11:32 AM

Deathfrogg: Peki: We're genetically engineering ourselves into a famine, polluting ourselves into a nasty weather feedback cycle, while simultaneously telling people that only the people who deserve to be poor are the ones starving and coughing in the streets.

The next 100 years is going to be very interesting.

Read: The Windup Girl by Paolo Bacigalupi. The story takes place after several generations of that.

All the super rich have done is earn themselves to be the last to starve when things go to shiat. They cause the problems, then blame the people affected by those problems for suffering the effects the problems they created. They would happily murder 2/3 of the human race rather than admit they're farking the world up.


If they did, would that not solve a lot of problems?
 
2014-03-18 06:11:43 AM

fusillade762: Also: creationists can suck it, too.


Shaking fist at you!!

/If only I hadn't been off watching third-worlders spectating tsunami waves and flash floods and getting washed away
//someone needs to build them a goddamn amusement park
 
2014-03-18 06:12:12 AM
And thus surprising no ecologist, ever.
 
2014-03-18 06:12:50 AM
This is exactly why GMO shiat should be outlawed.  The things (bugs, worms, etc) that they are developing it for will become resistant to it, because that's what evolution does over multiple generations.  In the meantime, we are eating this crap without it actually being proven to be 100% safe because reasons.But, you know, as long as Monsanto is making lots of money...
 
2014-03-18 06:13:03 AM

Cerebral Ballsy: Checkmate, evolution-deniers.


Also slow evolution proponants. Life will find a way quickly...
 
2014-03-18 06:13:04 AM

demaL-demaL-yeH: namatad: obivous tag was broken?
rofl

I know: Let's widely plant these GMOs without adequate testing, contaminate natural strains of crops so there's no heirloom stock left to save our butts, and then sue the organic farmers into bankruptcy for stealing our shiat.


Only ogranic farming would would leave massive famine. With modern hybrids and chemical fertilizer a 1/3 of the world would starve.
 
2014-03-18 06:21:42 AM

Farkage: This is exactly why GMO shiat should be outlawed.  The things (bugs, worms, etc) that they are developing it for will become resistant to it, because that's what evolution does over multiple generations.  In the meantime, we are eating this crap without it actually being proven to be 100% safe because reasons.But, you know, as long as Monsanto is making lots of money...


Protest scientific progress despite lack of scientific knowledge because reasons.
 
2014-03-18 06:25:04 AM

Farkage: This is exactly why GMO shiat should be outlawed.  The things (bugs, worms, etc) that they are developing it for will become resistant to it, because that's what evolution does over multiple generations.  In the meantime, we are eating this crap without it actually being proven to be 100% safe because reasons.But, you know, as long as Monsanto is making lots of money...


Well, to be fair, the article does outline the ways in which this could have been prevented. The true problem with GMOs is that while they could be used wisely, the odds of them actually being used wisely and with proper regulatory enforcement are about as slim as a unicorn spontaneously jumping out my butt this very second. And if they aren't used the way that is safest and suggested by scientists, it could fark a whole bunch of things up down the road. It's not that they have to be bad, it's that we know from experience with just about every other thing that could fark us up if we don't regulate it, we won't to the most ideal degree, and whatever the crappy result of failure to do so is, we'll be experiencing it to one degree or another soon enough. So I can understand why some people feel with GMOs it's going to be an everything goes or nothing does situation and banning them is the only way to stop this.
 
2014-03-18 06:26:55 AM

Mid_mo_mad_man: demaL-demaL-yeH: namatad: obivous tag was broken?
rofl

I know: Let's widely plant these GMOs without adequate testing, contaminate natural strains of crops so there's no heirloom stock left to save our butts, and then sue the organic farmers into bankruptcy for stealing our shiat.

Only ogranic farming would would leave massive famine. With modern hybrids and chemical fertilizer a 1/3 of the world would starve.


Spring sale on humanity!! 1/3 off!!!
 
2014-03-18 06:28:42 AM

Mid_mo_mad_man: demaL-demaL-yeH: namatad: obivous tag was broken?
rofl

I know: Let's widely plant these GMOs without adequate testing, contaminate natural strains of crops so there's no heirloom stock left to save our butts, and then sue the organic farmers into bankruptcy for stealing our shiat.

Only ogranic farming would would leave massive famine. With modern hybrids and chemical fertilizer a 1/3 of the world would starve.


Those chemical fertilizers are made from petroleum. That "third of the world" is going to starve eventually anyway, when that petroleum runs out. It would actually be more like 2/3 of the world, and we would still have these GMO foodstuffs in the system. It is unsustainable, and only benefits the people who own the patents. There is no measurable long-term benefit from growing crops that require petroleum-derived chemicals to survive.
 
2014-03-18 06:29:03 AM
Not a creationist, but I never found genetic modification to be a strong argument for evolution. Even creationists acknowledge that you can radically modify genetic traits, either the old fashioned way by breeding for them, or more recently in the lab.

The idea creationists have a problem wrapping their heads around is speciation. That's why the dog breed example doesn't hold much water with them. Sure a poodle and a german shephard look nothing like each other, but they're still the same species.
 
2014-03-18 06:30:58 AM
Inject the worms with Gonorrhea and let them kill each other off http://www.theverge.com/2014/3/12/5500246/gonorrhea-is-about-to-becom e -impossible-to-treat
 
2014-03-18 06:31:16 AM

Peki: We're genetically engineering ourselves into a famine,


Not really.  We're very, very easily staying ahead of actual reductions in output, the only potential thing we're in danger of falling short of is keeping up with increased demand.

So... go convince people to stop having more than one child per capita for us, will ya?

demaL-demaL-yeH: I know: Let's widely plant these GMOs without adequate testing, contaminate natural strains of crops so there's no heirloom stock left to save our butts, and then sue the organic farmers into bankruptcy for stealing our shiat.


1. There are 0 verified cases of cross contamination.  Not "almost zero", not "we project basically zero".  Literally not a single plant that has been planted with GM seed has expressed a modified gene without us intentionally setting it up to in the entire history of modern agriculture.

If you're going to base policy on shiat that only exists in your imagination, make sure you include some sort of regulatory framework so I don't accidentally run people over with my rainbow-pooping flying unicorn.

2. GM may potentially become less viable to some extent a few centuries in the future.  Organic farming literally is not even slightly viable  already, switching to organics would starve 80% of the world to death within a month if you go with the  forgiving estimate of comparative crop yields, more like 90% if you consider reduced calorie content by mass.

Farkage: This is exactly why GMO shiat should be outlawed.  The things (bugs, worms, etc) that they are developing it for will become resistant to it, because that's what evolution does over multiple generations.  In the meantime, we are eating this crap without it actually being proven to be 100% safe because reasons.But, you know, as long as Monsanto is making lots of money...


Nutritionally speaking, GM food is typically healthier than non-GM food, that's one of the two things that it's usually modified for.  Further, GM food has actually been tested to establish that it's healthy/safe.  Non-GM food has not.  You're actually taking  moreof a health risk eating non-GM food.

As for things adapting to our farming techniques... you do realize that pests have been adapting rapidly to our farming techniques for between 12000 and 14000 years, depending how long your region of the world has had agriculture, right?  Historically, we haven't found staying ahead terribly insurmountable as problems go.  If you really think it's a "GM" problem, for christ's sake go take some sort of remedial GED biology class or something.
 
2014-03-18 06:32:33 AM

Farkage: This is exactly why GMO shiat should be outlawed.  The things (bugs, worms, etc) that they are developing it for will become resistant to it, because that's what evolution does over multiple generations.  In the meantime, we are eating this crap without it actually being proven to be 100% safe because reasons.But, you know, as long as Monsanto is making lots of money...


Next you can tell me about chemtrails and fluoride mind control.
 
2014-03-18 06:35:38 AM

Farkage: This is exactly why GMO shiat should be outlawed.  The things (bugs, worms, etc) that they are developing it for will become resistant to it, because that's what evolution does over multiple generations.  In the meantime, we are eating this crap without it actually being proven to be 100% safe because reasons.But, you know, as long as Monsanto is making lots of money...


9/11 was an inside job
 
2014-03-18 06:43:02 AM

Mitch Taylor's Bro: Why do I get the feeling this is only going to lead to larger agricultural subsidies?


You don't expect Monsanto to engineer a solution for they problem they created for free do you?
 
2014-03-18 06:43:07 AM

ambercat: Farkage: This is exactly why GMO shiat should be outlawed.  The things (bugs, worms, etc) that they are developing it for will become resistant to it, because that's what evolution does over multiple generations.  In the meantime, we are eating this crap without it actually being proven to be 100% safe because reasons.But, you know, as long as Monsanto is making lots of money...

Well, to be fair, the article does outline the ways in which this could have been prevented. The true problem with GMOs is that while they could be used wisely, the odds of them actually being used wisely and with proper regulatory enforcement are about as slim as a unicorn spontaneously jumping out my butt this very second. And if they aren't used the way that is safest and suggested by scientists, it could fark a whole bunch of things up down the road. It's not that they have to be bad, it's that we know from experience with just about every other thing that could fark us up if we don't regulate it, we won't to the most ideal degree, and whatever the crappy result of failure to do so is, we'll be experiencing it to one degree or another soon enough. So I can understand why some people feel with GMOs it's going to be an everything goes or nothing does situation and banning them is the only way to stop this.


Here lies the problem: technology that is mismanaged and created with a poor understanding of genetics. BT corn was created based on an outdated and no longer used understanding of genes. Coupled with mismanagement and questionable testing of safety (largely a profit based initiative of the developer hoping to pawn its merchandise off regardless of the consequences), we get problems. Genetically altering things is not an inherently evil process, but it isn't exactly something you want to get wrong. Typically it has proved easiest to just crossbreed plants for their  positive traits, which UF proved can be done much easier in a lab without fundamentally introducing foreign genes. The high lycopene tomatoes fromt Tasti-lee are proof of that.

Deathfrogg: Mid_mo_mad_man: demaL-demaL-yeH: namatad: obivous tag was broken?
rofl

I know: Let's widely plant these GMOs without adequate testing, contaminate natural strains of crops so there's no heirloom stock left to save our butts, and then sue the organic farmers into bankruptcy for stealing our shiat.

Only ogranic farming would would leave massive famine. With modern hybrids and chemical fertilizer a 1/3 of the world would starve.

Those chemical fertilizers are made from petroleum. That "third of the world" is going to starve eventually anyway, when that petroleum runs out. It would actually be more like 2/3 of the world, and we would still have these GMO foodstuffs in the system. It is unsustainable, and only benefits the people who own the patents. There is no measurable long-term benefit from growing crops that require petroleum-derived chemicals to survive.


There are also plenty of alternatives to questionable chemical fertilizers. Huge strides have been made in the world of hydro and aquaponic farming, allowing us to grow food virtually anywhere and to produce some really big crops to boot. The big issue with mainstream or "conventional" farming is that it is not only unsustainable in the sense that the resources being used to make it possible are finite, but it also leads to all kinds of environmental problems when you get to spraying all sorts of poisons that leech into the earth and into consumers who eat said foods. GMOs (in this case, BT corn) have not actually stopped the use of pesticides; in many cases, pesticide use has actually drastically increased (for some fun research, read up on Argentina, who switched to BT corn and has seen insane increases of pesticide use since the switch).

Make no mistake, our population is already nearly unsustainable at its current level of excess. We need less people, not more food: one of the best solutions is an increase in wealth and prosperity. Statistically speaking, more "successful" countries have lower birth rates. The big change needed is on our end as humans. I'm also of the opinion that law should require anyone who owns or operates property be required by law to grow some form of food on said property, whether it be lemons, bananas, or what have you: some form of tree, vine, or plant that can be eaten.

Fun new fact: Monsanto is working on developing new hybrid plants via crossbreeding in a lab. These new efforts do not involve the creation of GMOs with genes taken from unrelated organisms. Seems like their recent shareholder meeting might have shaken things up a bit.

/money talks
 
2014-03-18 07:03:14 AM
masternorris.com
 
2014-03-18 07:04:08 AM

Jim_Callahan: Peki: We're genetically engineering ourselves into a famine,

Not really.  We're very, very easily staying ahead of actual reductions in output, the only potential thing we're in danger of falling short of is keeping up with increased demand.

So... go convince people to stop having more than one child per capita for us, will ya?

demaL-demaL-yeH: I know: Let's widely plant these GMOs without adequate testing, contaminate natural strains of crops so there's no heirloom stock left to save our butts, and then sue the organic farmers into bankruptcy for stealing our shiat.

1. There are 0 verified cases of cross contamination.  Not "almost zero", not "we project basically zero".  Literally not a single plant that has been planted with GM seed has expressed a modified gene without us intentionally setting it up to in the entire history of modern agriculture.


What? Are you saying that no GMO corn has ever contaminated other corn crops through pollination? Because that is simply not true. It's VERY hard for farmers or seed companies to be able to certify corn as non-GMO these days, because if they are honest about testing their corn, they keep finding that it is contaminated, even when grown in the remote regions of the US.
 
2014-03-18 07:05:38 AM

demaL-demaL-yeH: contaminate natural strains of crops


Where are these natural strains of crops to contaminate? Do you mean the mutant strains that humans have genetically engineered (via selective breeding) for thousands of years, so for example with wheat it can't naturally spread its seed and has to be manually or machine planted or it would rapidly die out?
 
2014-03-18 07:08:18 AM
I never knew Fark had so many farmers.
 
2014-03-18 07:08:48 AM

Jim_Callahan: Peki: We're genetically engineering ourselves into a famine,

Not really.  We're very, very easily staying ahead of actual reductions in output, the only potential thing we're in danger of falling short of is keeping up with increased demand.

So... go convince people to stop having more than one child per capita for us, will ya?

demaL-demaL-yeH: I know: Let's widely plant these GMOs without adequate testing, contaminate natural strains of crops so there's no heirloom stock left to save our butts, and then sue the organic farmers into bankruptcy for stealing our shiat.

1. There are 0 verified cases of cross contamination.  Not "almost zero", not "we project basically zero".  Literally not a single plant that has been planted with GM seed has expressed a modified gene without us intentionally setting it up to in the entire history of modern agriculture.

If you're going to base policy on shiat that only exists in your imagination, make sure you include some sort of regulatory framework so I don't accidentally run people over with my rainbow-pooping flying unicorn.

2. GM may potentially become less viable to some extent a few centuries in the future.  Organic farming literally is not even slightly viable  already, switching to organics would starve 80% of the world to death within a month if you go with the  forgiving estimate of comparative crop yields, more like 90% if you consider reduced calorie content by mass.

Farkage: This is exactly why GMO shiat should be outlawed.  The things (bugs, worms, etc) that they are developing it for will become resistant to it, because that's what evolution does over multiple generations.  In the meantime, we are eating this crap without it actually being proven to be 100% safe because reasons.But, you know, as long as Monsanto is making lots of money...

Nutritionally speaking, GM food is typically healthier than non-GM food, that's one of the two things that it's usually modified for.  Further, GM food has actually been tested to establish that it's healthy/safe.  Non-GM food has not.  You're actually taking  moreof a health risk eating non-GM food.

As for things adapting to our farming techniques... you do realize that pests have been adapting rapidly to our farming techniques for between 12000 and 14000 years, depending how long your region of the world has had agriculture, right?  Historically, we haven't found staying ahead terribly insurmountable as problems go.  If you really think it's a "GM" problem, for christ's sake go take some sort of remedial GED biology class or something.


Wow, you really went full retard there, didn't you? So you're telling me that corn genetically engineered to produce bt toxin is safer and healthier than corn that isn't? Because that was what my point was.

My one and only point.

Yes, things have been evolving as long as life has been around. Anyone with a half a brain knows that. My issue is engineering food to produce more and different kinds of toxin to keep bugs from eating it because it'll kill them, but saying it's okay for us to eat it because they tested it a little and pinky swear that it's okay.
 
2014-03-18 07:11:10 AM
Mmmmm, tasty worm-meal.
 
2014-03-18 07:16:56 AM

Farkage: My issue is engineering food to produce more and different kinds of toxin to keep bugs from eating it because it'll kill them, but saying it's okay for us to eat it because they tested it a little and pinky swear that it's okay.


who exactly is "they"? because you understand that anyone can test they stuff to determine if it is safe or not.

Your comment would be like saying "My issue is engineering vaccines to produce more and different kinds of toxin to keep diseases from your body it because it'll kill them, but saying it's okay for us because they tested it a little and pinky swear that it's okay. "
 
2014-03-18 07:19:59 AM

log_jammin: Farkage: My issue is engineering food to produce more and different kinds of toxin to keep bugs from eating it because it'll kill them, but saying it's okay for us to eat it because they tested it a little and pinky swear that it's okay.

who exactly is "they"? because you understand that anyone can test they stuff to determine if it is safe or not.

Your comment would be like saying "My issue is engineering vaccines to produce more and different kinds of toxin to keep diseases from your body it because it'll kill them, but saying it's okay for us because they tested it a little and pinky swear that it's okay. "


Go learn how vaccines work and rethink your post mkay? Not remotely the same.
Now tell me the long term health consequences of ingesting bt toxin. Show your work.
We'll wait.
 
2014-03-18 07:24:38 AM
Two decades ago, my genetics professor predicted this, but he believed that it would probably take four decades after it was released to the public before nature had an answer. I find it encouraging that nature responds even faster than off hand science predictions. He had worked for Monsanto and other companies working on plant genetics in the sixties and said they fully understood it was a very limited solution that nature would undo in less than a century.
 
2014-03-18 07:26:56 AM

Farkage: Go learn how vaccines work and rethink your post mkay? Not remotely the same.


I didn't say, or imply they work the same way.

what I was saying, is that you are using the exact same fear mongering tactics used by anti-vaccers.

Farkage: Now tell me the long term health consequences of ingesting bt toxin. Show your work.
We'll wait.


as I said, anyone is free to test that. no one is forced to take Monsanto's word on their "pinky swear"

now, do you have a peer reviewed study that shows the long term health consequences of ingesting Bacillus thuringiensis? Because I never claimed to have that information, but you seem pretty sure of it, so lets have it.
 
2014-03-18 07:28:45 AM

log_jammin: Farkage: My issue is engineering food to produce more and different kinds of toxin to keep bugs from eating it because it'll kill them, but saying it's okay for us to eat it because they tested it a little and pinky swear that it's okay.

who exactly is "they"? because you understand that anyone can test they stuff to determine if it is safe or not.

Your comment would be like saying "My issue is engineering vaccines to produce more and different kinds of toxin to keep diseases from your body it because it'll kill them, but saying it's okay for us because they tested it a little and pinky swear that it's okay. "


Except that the toxins those GMO plants produce kill as many beneficial insects as harmful ones. Not to mention the fact that engineering plants to produce the same toxins used to clear the forests in Vietnam during the 1960s really doesn't seem like a good idea, considering the health effects that are still being seen more than thirty years after the fact. Children are still being born with massive birth defects, and people are still getting a hundred different types of cancers they weren't getting before the American War there.
 
2014-03-18 07:29:12 AM
I was looking for a key poiont that we, as humans seems to have a stigmatism about (because we KEEP doing it).

FTFA:

"a cautionary tale of how short-sighted mismanagement can squander the benefits"

and

"There needs to be a fundamental change in how the technology is used"


It is truely amazing how we can make brilliant technological breakthru's and then apply them in the most assinine ways.................
 
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